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	<title>Comments on: GIANT GUEST-POST: Poetry as Site of Resistance by Jeremy Schmall</title>
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	<link>http://htmlgiant.com/author-spotlight/giant-guest-post-poetry-as-site-of-resistance-by-jeremy-schmall/</link>
	<description>the internet literature magazine blog of the future</description>
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		<title>By: Poetry as Site of Resistance (excerpts): Jeremy Schmall &#171; कविता समय</title>
		<link>http://htmlgiant.com/author-spotlight/giant-guest-post-poetry-as-site-of-resistance-by-jeremy-schmall/comment-page-2/#comment-195694</link>
		<dc:creator>Poetry as Site of Resistance (excerpts): Jeremy Schmall &#171; कविता समय</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Feb 2011 06:13:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://htmlgiant.com/?p=10726#comment-195694</guid>
		<description>[...] है, उनका शु्क्रिया; चित्र और  पाठ  यहाँ से [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] है, उनका शु्क्रिया; चित्र और  पाठ  यहाँ से [...]</p>
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		<title>By: HTMLGIANT / David Berman and Epistemological Closure in the Propaganda State</title>
		<link>http://htmlgiant.com/author-spotlight/giant-guest-post-poetry-as-site-of-resistance-by-jeremy-schmall/comment-page-2/#comment-86235</link>
		<dc:creator>HTMLGIANT / David Berman and Epistemological Closure in the Propaganda State</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Aug 2010 15:17:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://htmlgiant.com/?p=10726#comment-86235</guid>
		<description>[...] Laurel Review, Washington Square, and Forklift Ohio. His last essay for HTMLGiant was &#8220;Poetry as Site of Resistance&#8221; (6/18/09) He lives in New York City. Tags: David Berman, epistemological closure, Jeremy [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Laurel Review, Washington Square, and Forklift Ohio. His last essay for HTMLGiant was &#8220;Poetry as Site of Resistance&#8221; (6/18/09) He lives in New York City. Tags: David Berman, epistemological closure, Jeremy [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://htmlgiant.com/author-spotlight/giant-guest-post-poetry-as-site-of-resistance-by-jeremy-schmall/comment-page-2/#comment-32191</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 20:07:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://htmlgiant.com/?p=10726#comment-32191</guid>
		<description>I think one of the earlier posters on this topic was just about right on.

Poetry is no longer culturally relevant in this country due to the advent of free verse. Many/most poets today write in free verse because it offers the most creative freedom. Or, if they do not write in strictly free verse, they modify traditional forms beyond recognition. Metered end-rhyming poetry is, by and large, a dinosaur of a cultural artifact. Poets pretend to like it, but don&#039;t write it, and don&#039;t approve of those who do write it with any regularity (they are a sub-sub-culture). Most poets put relatively masked formal elements into their poems, somehow hoping to connect with the past tradition of poetry, and also giving them some po-cred at the same time. It never serves the same function as rhyming poetry used to.

Yet whenever I mention poetry to some random schmuck on the street, s/he tells me that she adores Frost, or Dickinson, Shakespeare, Dylan Thomas, Keats, Blake or Tennyson. Some people give me Plath or Ginsberg, but even those two were much more formal than most. I must admit that I too feel limited by rhyme, but maybe it&#039;s because I, like most &quot;poets,&quot; am not a poet at all but a lover of words who likes to write them. I&#039;m okay with that, but I don&#039;t expect to be appreciated.

Ferlinghetti wrote an essay called &quot;Modern Poetry is Prose (But It Is Saying Plenty).&quot; I&#039;d say that, as a whole, poetry is saying less now than it was when he wrote the essay, but his assessment was pretty much right--and it also means that poets have abandoned their role as makers of sonorous language that can be appreciated by just about anyone. This is why &quot;spoken word&quot; and rap today are more popular than &quot;poetry.&quot; Rhyme and meter have powerful effects.

But maybe we shouldn&#039;t need rhyme--maybe poetry could have changed and remained relevant. It&#039;s possible that our education system has failed us in this regard by emphasizing technical/job skills over the older model of a liberal arts education, creating an &quot;upper class&quot; that has all the money, but is all but ignorant of their own cultural history. Notice that this change in the American system was somewhat concurrent with the disappearance of rhyme from poetry. I&#039;m not smart enough to figure out what, if anything, that means.

Don&#039;t get me wrong, I&#039;m okay with where &quot;poetry&quot; is, but some of you seem to want a diagnosis, as if this situation were something to be fixed. Maybe it is, maybe it isn&#039;t. This article presents a somewhat valid perspective, but it is by no means a complete one. I feel that it descends into wishful thinking about the power of poetry at the end. He&#039;s conflating poetry (which does not instruct us on the particulars of how to live) with poets (who tend to be politically idealistic and anti-commercial).

~shrug~ It&#039;s easy to get all riled up about these things, but the fact is that we don&#039;t have enough information to come to a concrete and incontestable truth on the subject. In the meantime, I&#039;m going to continue being what I am and writing what I do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think one of the earlier posters on this topic was just about right on.</p>
<p>Poetry is no longer culturally relevant in this country due to the advent of free verse. Many/most poets today write in free verse because it offers the most creative freedom. Or, if they do not write in strictly free verse, they modify traditional forms beyond recognition. Metered end-rhyming poetry is, by and large, a dinosaur of a cultural artifact. Poets pretend to like it, but don&#8217;t write it, and don&#8217;t approve of those who do write it with any regularity (they are a sub-sub-culture). Most poets put relatively masked formal elements into their poems, somehow hoping to connect with the past tradition of poetry, and also giving them some po-cred at the same time. It never serves the same function as rhyming poetry used to.</p>
<p>Yet whenever I mention poetry to some random schmuck on the street, s/he tells me that she adores Frost, or Dickinson, Shakespeare, Dylan Thomas, Keats, Blake or Tennyson. Some people give me Plath or Ginsberg, but even those two were much more formal than most. I must admit that I too feel limited by rhyme, but maybe it&#8217;s because I, like most &#8220;poets,&#8221; am not a poet at all but a lover of words who likes to write them. I&#8217;m okay with that, but I don&#8217;t expect to be appreciated.</p>
<p>Ferlinghetti wrote an essay called &#8220;Modern Poetry is Prose (But It Is Saying Plenty).&#8221; I&#8217;d say that, as a whole, poetry is saying less now than it was when he wrote the essay, but his assessment was pretty much right&#8211;and it also means that poets have abandoned their role as makers of sonorous language that can be appreciated by just about anyone. This is why &#8220;spoken word&#8221; and rap today are more popular than &#8220;poetry.&#8221; Rhyme and meter have powerful effects.</p>
<p>But maybe we shouldn&#8217;t need rhyme&#8211;maybe poetry could have changed and remained relevant. It&#8217;s possible that our education system has failed us in this regard by emphasizing technical/job skills over the older model of a liberal arts education, creating an &#8220;upper class&#8221; that has all the money, but is all but ignorant of their own cultural history. Notice that this change in the American system was somewhat concurrent with the disappearance of rhyme from poetry. I&#8217;m not smart enough to figure out what, if anything, that means.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t get me wrong, I&#8217;m okay with where &#8220;poetry&#8221; is, but some of you seem to want a diagnosis, as if this situation were something to be fixed. Maybe it is, maybe it isn&#8217;t. This article presents a somewhat valid perspective, but it is by no means a complete one. I feel that it descends into wishful thinking about the power of poetry at the end. He&#8217;s conflating poetry (which does not instruct us on the particulars of how to live) with poets (who tend to be politically idealistic and anti-commercial).</p>
<p>~shrug~ It&#8217;s easy to get all riled up about these things, but the fact is that we don&#8217;t have enough information to come to a concrete and incontestable truth on the subject. In the meantime, I&#8217;m going to continue being what I am and writing what I do.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://htmlgiant.com/author-spotlight/giant-guest-post-poetry-as-site-of-resistance-by-jeremy-schmall/comment-page-2/#comment-110259</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 20:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://htmlgiant.com/?p=10726#comment-110259</guid>
		<description>I think one of the earlier posters on this topic was just about right on.

Poetry is no longer culturally relevant in this country due to the advent of free verse. Many/most poets today write in free verse because it offers the most creative freedom. Or, if they do not write in strictly free verse, they modify traditional forms beyond recognition. Metered end-rhyming poetry is, by and large, a dinosaur of a cultural artifact. Poets pretend to like it, but don&#039;t write it, and don&#039;t approve of those who do write it with any regularity (they are a sub-sub-culture). Most poets put relatively masked formal elements into their poems, somehow hoping to connect with the past tradition of poetry, and also giving them some po-cred at the same time. It never serves the same function as rhyming poetry used to.

Yet whenever I mention poetry to some random schmuck on the street, s/he tells me that she adores Frost, or Dickinson, Shakespeare, Dylan Thomas, Keats, Blake or Tennyson. Some people give me Plath or Ginsberg, but even those two were much more formal than most. I must admit that I too feel limited by rhyme, but maybe it&#039;s because I, like most &quot;poets,&quot; am not a poet at all but a lover of words who likes to write them. I&#039;m okay with that, but I don&#039;t expect to be appreciated.

Ferlinghetti wrote an essay called &quot;Modern Poetry is Prose (But It Is Saying Plenty).&quot; I&#039;d say that, as a whole, poetry is saying less now than it was when he wrote the essay, but his assessment was pretty much right--and it also means that poets have abandoned their role as makers of sonorous language that can be appreciated by just about anyone. This is why &quot;spoken word&quot; and rap today are more popular than &quot;poetry.&quot; Rhyme and meter have powerful effects.

But maybe we shouldn&#039;t need rhyme--maybe poetry could have changed and remained relevant. It&#039;s possible that our education system has failed us in this regard by emphasizing technical/job skills over the older model of a liberal arts education, creating an &quot;upper class&quot; that has all the money, but is all but ignorant of their own cultural history. Notice that this change in the American system was somewhat concurrent with the disappearance of rhyme from poetry. I&#039;m not smart enough to figure out what, if anything, that means.

Don&#039;t get me wrong, I&#039;m okay with where &quot;poetry&quot; is, but some of you seem to want a diagnosis, as if this situation were something to be fixed. Maybe it is, maybe it isn&#039;t. This article presents a somewhat valid perspective, but it is by no means a complete one. I feel that it descends into wishful thinking about the power of poetry at the end. He&#039;s conflating poetry (which does not instruct us on the particulars of how to live) with poets (who tend to be politically idealistic and anti-commercial).

~shrug~ It&#039;s easy to get all riled up about these things, but the fact is that we don&#039;t have enough information to come to a concrete and incontestable truth on the subject. In the meantime, I&#039;m going to continue being what I am and writing what I do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think one of the earlier posters on this topic was just about right on.</p>
<p>Poetry is no longer culturally relevant in this country due to the advent of free verse. Many/most poets today write in free verse because it offers the most creative freedom. Or, if they do not write in strictly free verse, they modify traditional forms beyond recognition. Metered end-rhyming poetry is, by and large, a dinosaur of a cultural artifact. Poets pretend to like it, but don&#8217;t write it, and don&#8217;t approve of those who do write it with any regularity (they are a sub-sub-culture). Most poets put relatively masked formal elements into their poems, somehow hoping to connect with the past tradition of poetry, and also giving them some po-cred at the same time. It never serves the same function as rhyming poetry used to.</p>
<p>Yet whenever I mention poetry to some random schmuck on the street, s/he tells me that she adores Frost, or Dickinson, Shakespeare, Dylan Thomas, Keats, Blake or Tennyson. Some people give me Plath or Ginsberg, but even those two were much more formal than most. I must admit that I too feel limited by rhyme, but maybe it&#8217;s because I, like most &#8220;poets,&#8221; am not a poet at all but a lover of words who likes to write them. I&#8217;m okay with that, but I don&#8217;t expect to be appreciated.</p>
<p>Ferlinghetti wrote an essay called &#8220;Modern Poetry is Prose (But It Is Saying Plenty).&#8221; I&#8217;d say that, as a whole, poetry is saying less now than it was when he wrote the essay, but his assessment was pretty much right&#8211;and it also means that poets have abandoned their role as makers of sonorous language that can be appreciated by just about anyone. This is why &#8220;spoken word&#8221; and rap today are more popular than &#8220;poetry.&#8221; Rhyme and meter have powerful effects.</p>
<p>But maybe we shouldn&#8217;t need rhyme&#8211;maybe poetry could have changed and remained relevant. It&#8217;s possible that our education system has failed us in this regard by emphasizing technical/job skills over the older model of a liberal arts education, creating an &#8220;upper class&#8221; that has all the money, but is all but ignorant of their own cultural history. Notice that this change in the American system was somewhat concurrent with the disappearance of rhyme from poetry. I&#8217;m not smart enough to figure out what, if anything, that means.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t get me wrong, I&#8217;m okay with where &#8220;poetry&#8221; is, but some of you seem to want a diagnosis, as if this situation were something to be fixed. Maybe it is, maybe it isn&#8217;t. This article presents a somewhat valid perspective, but it is by no means a complete one. I feel that it descends into wishful thinking about the power of poetry at the end. He&#8217;s conflating poetry (which does not instruct us on the particulars of how to live) with poets (who tend to be politically idealistic and anti-commercial).</p>
<p>~shrug~ It&#8217;s easy to get all riled up about these things, but the fact is that we don&#8217;t have enough information to come to a concrete and incontestable truth on the subject. In the meantime, I&#8217;m going to continue being what I am and writing what I do.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Karambis</title>
		<link>http://htmlgiant.com/author-spotlight/giant-guest-post-poetry-as-site-of-resistance-by-jeremy-schmall/comment-page-2/#comment-19247</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Karambis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 15:42:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://htmlgiant.com/?p=10726#comment-19247</guid>
		<description>Great provocative post and enthralling debate, in which I will not engage, except to provide a view from a barbarian at the gate. As a former Phd student studying 18th century british lit and sometime writer now turned full-time marketing strategist, I find it now amazing that while my old writer/academic friends--many of whom i think are doing great work--continue to lament the  ways capitalism is ravaging culture in a thousand different ways, most of my new pals in advertising think we are all on some happy quest to change the world for the better.  Really and truly. Go check out an awards show and wallow in the utopianism.   I think both sides are engaging in some degree of ideological self-delusion.  Many former great forms continue to exist long after they have a marketplace, replaced by new, dominant forms of expression Capitalism may well be damaging mass culture, but it still leaves a lot of room for non-marketable expression (so long as you don&#039;t need lots of people or equipment).  Poetry was rarely if ever a marketable form.  The few exceptions over the centuries do not make a market.  If you want to paid for something, go make someone some money.  That&#039;s why I did. And i&#039;m here to tell you, it&#039;s a lot easier than teaching three sections of comp a year.  If you don&#039;t want to sell out like me, enjoy your time, your art, your community.  Because if you join me,  you&#039;ll lose a whole bunch of that too.   So poetry can well be a form resistance like any form of art that holds out a place for thoughtful engagement with the world against the forces of mass culture.  But Capital doesn&#039;t care, now or ever</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great provocative post and enthralling debate, in which I will not engage, except to provide a view from a barbarian at the gate. As a former Phd student studying 18th century british lit and sometime writer now turned full-time marketing strategist, I find it now amazing that while my old writer/academic friends&#8211;many of whom i think are doing great work&#8211;continue to lament the  ways capitalism is ravaging culture in a thousand different ways, most of my new pals in advertising think we are all on some happy quest to change the world for the better.  Really and truly. Go check out an awards show and wallow in the utopianism.   I think both sides are engaging in some degree of ideological self-delusion.  Many former great forms continue to exist long after they have a marketplace, replaced by new, dominant forms of expression Capitalism may well be damaging mass culture, but it still leaves a lot of room for non-marketable expression (so long as you don&#8217;t need lots of people or equipment).  Poetry was rarely if ever a marketable form.  The few exceptions over the centuries do not make a market.  If you want to paid for something, go make someone some money.  That&#8217;s why I did. And i&#8217;m here to tell you, it&#8217;s a lot easier than teaching three sections of comp a year.  If you don&#8217;t want to sell out like me, enjoy your time, your art, your community.  Because if you join me,  you&#8217;ll lose a whole bunch of that too.   So poetry can well be a form resistance like any form of art that holds out a place for thoughtful engagement with the world against the forces of mass culture.  But Capital doesn&#8217;t care, now or ever</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Karambis</title>
		<link>http://htmlgiant.com/author-spotlight/giant-guest-post-poetry-as-site-of-resistance-by-jeremy-schmall/comment-page-2/#comment-110258</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Karambis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 15:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://htmlgiant.com/?p=10726#comment-110258</guid>
		<description>Great provocative post and enthralling debate, in which I will not engage, except to provide a view from a barbarian at the gate. As a former Phd student studying 18th century british lit and sometime writer now turned full-time marketing strategist, I find it now amazing that while my old writer/academic friends--many of whom i think are doing great work--continue to lament the  ways capitalism is ravaging culture in a thousand different ways, most of my new pals in advertising think we are all on some happy quest to change the world for the better.  Really and truly. Go check out an awards show and wallow in the utopianism.   I think both sides are engaging in some degree of ideological self-delusion.  Many former great forms continue to exist long after they have a marketplace, replaced by new, dominant forms of expression Capitalism may well be damaging mass culture, but it still leaves a lot of room for non-marketable expression (so long as you don&#039;t need lots of people or equipment).  Poetry was rarely if ever a marketable form.  The few exceptions over the centuries do not make a market.  If you want to paid for something, go make someone some money.  That&#039;s why I did. And i&#039;m here to tell you, it&#039;s a lot easier than teaching three sections of comp a year.  If you don&#039;t want to sell out like me, enjoy your time, your art, your community.  Because if you join me,  you&#039;ll lose a whole bunch of that too.   So poetry can well be a form resistance like any form of art that holds out a place for thoughtful engagement with the world against the forces of mass culture.  But Capital doesn&#039;t care, now or ever</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great provocative post and enthralling debate, in which I will not engage, except to provide a view from a barbarian at the gate. As a former Phd student studying 18th century british lit and sometime writer now turned full-time marketing strategist, I find it now amazing that while my old writer/academic friends&#8211;many of whom i think are doing great work&#8211;continue to lament the  ways capitalism is ravaging culture in a thousand different ways, most of my new pals in advertising think we are all on some happy quest to change the world for the better.  Really and truly. Go check out an awards show and wallow in the utopianism.   I think both sides are engaging in some degree of ideological self-delusion.  Many former great forms continue to exist long after they have a marketplace, replaced by new, dominant forms of expression Capitalism may well be damaging mass culture, but it still leaves a lot of room for non-marketable expression (so long as you don&#8217;t need lots of people or equipment).  Poetry was rarely if ever a marketable form.  The few exceptions over the centuries do not make a market.  If you want to paid for something, go make someone some money.  That&#8217;s why I did. And i&#8217;m here to tell you, it&#8217;s a lot easier than teaching three sections of comp a year.  If you don&#8217;t want to sell out like me, enjoy your time, your art, your community.  Because if you join me,  you&#8217;ll lose a whole bunch of that too.   So poetry can well be a form resistance like any form of art that holds out a place for thoughtful engagement with the world against the forces of mass culture.  But Capital doesn&#8217;t care, now or ever</p>
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		<title>By: Sherry Chandler &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Poetry vs. Ideology 2</title>
		<link>http://htmlgiant.com/author-spotlight/giant-guest-post-poetry-as-site-of-resistance-by-jeremy-schmall/comment-page-2/#comment-19070</link>
		<dc:creator>Sherry Chandler &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Poetry vs. Ideology 2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:57:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://htmlgiant.com/?p=10726#comment-19070</guid>
		<description>[...] the one about Iranian interest in poetry, here is a snippet from Jeremy Schmall&#8217;s article Poetry as a Site of Resistance: But the question becomes, if poetry is irrelevant to the culture at large, if it doesn’t sell, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the one about Iranian interest in poetry, here is a snippet from Jeremy Schmall&#8217;s article Poetry as a Site of Resistance: But the question becomes, if poetry is irrelevant to the culture at large, if it doesn’t sell, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: michael j</title>
		<link>http://htmlgiant.com/author-spotlight/giant-guest-post-poetry-as-site-of-resistance-by-jeremy-schmall/comment-page-2/#comment-18934</link>
		<dc:creator>michael j</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 05:40:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://htmlgiant.com/?p=10726#comment-18934</guid>
		<description>samizdat! samizdat! samizdat!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>samizdat! samizdat! samizdat!</p>
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		<title>By: michael j</title>
		<link>http://htmlgiant.com/author-spotlight/giant-guest-post-poetry-as-site-of-resistance-by-jeremy-schmall/comment-page-2/#comment-110257</link>
		<dc:creator>michael j</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 05:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://htmlgiant.com/?p=10726#comment-110257</guid>
		<description>samizdat! samizdat! samizdat!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>samizdat! samizdat! samizdat!</p>
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		<title>By: Talk &#171; Some Poetry</title>
		<link>http://htmlgiant.com/author-spotlight/giant-guest-post-poetry-as-site-of-resistance-by-jeremy-schmall/comment-page-2/#comment-18881</link>
		<dc:creator>Talk &#171; Some Poetry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 20:01:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://htmlgiant.com/?p=10726#comment-18881</guid>
		<description>[...] June 22, 2009 by karaashley09    I read this article on what poetry is to our society by Jeremy Schmall. Very interesting and liberal. He said, &#8220;Poetry, as it exists today, is a spontaneous, self-organizing and utterly unprofitable source of culture&#8230;&#8221; and that poets are not a market, but a tribe. Since poets and their work don&#8217;t fit into globalization markets (since it doesn&#8217;t sell), they define themselves. If you care to read, go here. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] June 22, 2009 by karaashley09    I read this article on what poetry is to our society by Jeremy Schmall. Very interesting and liberal. He said, &#8220;Poetry, as it exists today, is a spontaneous, self-organizing and utterly unprofitable source of culture&#8230;&#8221; and that poets are not a market, but a tribe. Since poets and their work don&#8217;t fit into globalization markets (since it doesn&#8217;t sell), they define themselves. If you care to read, go here. [...]</p>
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