July 9th, 2010 / 1:43 pm
Craft Notes

10 Requests for Better Silence

1. Writing something does not guarantee you the right to have someone look at it, acknowledge it, read it, enjoy it, consider it for publication, have it for breakfast.
2. Writing could arguably be considered art and/or entertainment. If it does not act upon a body as art does (however that is, it often causes at least some sensation) and/or entertain, probably no one is going to give a shit. Birthday parties are for toddlers.
3. Most people aren’t going to give a shit even if it does do one or both of those things, and many people will never find it or give it time even if it does do one or both of those things, and though there are things you can do to improve your chances, please refer to list item #1.
4. Complaining about certain people not giving you “fair consideration” is never going to make anybody want to like you more, particularly when those people are publishers or reviewers or whatever, who get more than their fair share of these inputs (and they like it that way, but it’s still a lot).
5. Art is not democracy. People like what they like, or they find another reason to like it. If you bake me a beautiful cake, and I’m really not hungry, I’m not going to eat your cake, even if I personally can’t hardly pass on most cake even if I’m full as a motherfucker. Maybe your cake smells moldy, or is from a gas station.
6. Because anyone can choose what goes in and out of them, even when they are in a position where part of their “job” is to have things going in and out of them, no one has to make you feel OK with regards to the accuracy, efficiency, fairness, and rules about which they check you out. If I own a magazine, and I want people who want to be in my magazine to eat 14 pounds of lard and provide video proof before I’ll check out their art, I have every right to do that. It’s my fucking magazine! I started that motherfucker so I could do what I wanted to with it! If you don’t want to eat lard stay away from my magazine! There are like 1400 other magazines and many of them are so very democratic.
7. Stop worrying. The stakes are whatever you want them to be, and it doesn’t have to do with exposition. The longer it takes, the better for you. What if Michael Jordan had gotten picked up by the Bulls when he was 15? He would not be Michael Jordan.
8. No one got into this because they thought they were going to make sex and money. They aren’t trying to destroy you, even if they maybe are still in a la-la land of their own. THIS WHOLE THING IS LA LA LAND.
9. Don’t stop worrying. Worry more, but make it yours. Talk to yourself more, into your hands and in the bed and shower. Get angry and tell no one. This makes you into a person.
10. The more times you make the cake that no one eats or only eats a little the better you get at making another.

215 Comments

  1. Amy

      Amen.

  2. Vern

      Shut the fuck up, Blake.

  3. Donald

      Opinion is divided.

  4. Matthew Simmons

      Appears so. Think we’ll need to go to the judges for a ruling.

  5. jesusangelgarcia

      Love how these barrel into a crescendo. I’m like oh yeah, Oh yeah, Oh Yeah, OH YEAH, ha! And yet I keep returning to… “THIS WHOLE THING IS LA LA LAND” (and cake from the gas station, whaaa…?).

      3x Amy’s amen & a hallelujah (icing).

  6. rk

      “Writing something does not guarantee you the right to have someone look at it, acknowledge it, read it, enjoy it, consider it for publication, have it for breakfast.”

      Right on. Even more so the hard one to learn is once someone does read it, look at it, enjoy it etc doesn’t make you a better person, doesn’t make your writing any better, doesn’t make you any happier in the long run. What I finally learned is the only sure goal is to write to your own contentment and whatever happens happens. The Long Silence is a terrible drag and at times we all want to feel involved and invited and like our stuff belongs, but if you’re writing anything that matters in the end what you’re writing is all that matters, right?

  7. marshall

      I lolled at this. Damn.

  8. marshall

      “Shut the fuck up” seems to be one of the most beautiful phrases in the English language.

  9. Joseph Young

      such a noisy silence.

  10. Justin Taylor

      To be honest, I hoped that I might get to make some sex out of this. For what it’s worth, sometimes I do.
      But mostly what I wanted to say is- #9 #9 #9.
      And that, the next time I’m giving someone a stern talking to, I am going to suggest “maybe your cake is from a gas station,” with an entirely straight face and then act as if this is an expression everyone knows and understands.

  11. Blake Butler

      this is not an example of silence.

  12. Joseph Young

      ( )

  13. Blake Butler

      :)

      i wonder how many cake bakers get sex vs. how many writers?

  14. mjm

      No to some, yes to some.

      Yes and No to some and some more.

      Somalia.

  15. Joseph Riippi

      This was good cake.

  16. Adam R

      Slap me ten.

  17. mark leidner

      all american babies are born with air guitars in their hands

  18. jesusangelgarcia

      yeah, a friend of mine says we should just post “STFU” on every blog and web site. graffiti the entire www.

  19. goner

      LeBron James is the most interesting American artist working today.

      Let them eat cake.

  20. jesusangelgarcia
  21. Pontius J. LaBar

      If you wouldn’t do it anyway, stop doing it.

  22. Tim

      Yes on the gas station cake. Let’s make that motherfucker a standard phrase.

      I too hoped for sex out of this and got a little. Less than I’d hoped for but more than I should have expected.

  23. Lily

      I would bake a very good cake for you, Blake, for you and anyone else here.

  24. Joseph Young

      seriously, though, blake, pretty hard to train someone to silence, esp a art maker type–thus this post. and noise is just when you don’t like the music.

      and plus plus, we all got into it for the sex and money. or rather their what they stand for–love.

  25. Blake Butler

      mm, please.

  26. jesusangelgarcia
  27. Amber

      “Art is not democracy.” I’m tatooing this on my ass so the next time someone whines at me about such-and-such isn’t fair or how come they didn’t have a say, I can moon them my message.

  28. bill

      Blake, you are the cake baker.

  29. john carney

      with other writers i’m guessing — the sex

      nothing wrong with that, just saying

  30. darby

      hint taken

  31. Mark C

      i hope to make sex out of everything, and most of the time I don’t.

  32. darby

      thats probably the one i dont agree with. art is not a democracy doesnt necessarily mean your not allowed to be upset or offended by something. someone shouts fuck you on the street at me, even though i acknolwedge his right to shout that doesnt mean i cant echo it back at him. im supposed to be silent and say to myself, well he has a freedom of speech i guess. art is not a democracy should only mean that people can do what they want, it shouldn’t also mean that people must be happy with what everyone chooses to do.

  33. jereme

      where in that list does he say the above?

  34. Michael

      i don’t know

  35. jesusangelgarcia

      OK, Amber, I’m calling your bluff: whine whine whine… such-and-such and this-and-that just ain’t fair. Why, oh why?

      Now what.

  36. Blake Butler

      i think i argued exactly what you are saying darby. that people do not have to be happy with what you choose to do.

  37. darby

      implied in #6

  38. darby

      i think i am in favor of shouting at things im offended by though, you seem to be in favor of silence.

  39. jesusangelgarcia

      Democracy is cacophony, the cacophony of everyone exercising their right to flex their individual voice. I’m guessing Blake’s arguing that art isn’t democracy in that no one is guaranteed a voice in every forum (i.e., publishing format, public opinion, etc.) so they should just STFU.

  40. Ken Baumann

      Thank you.

  41. Blake Butler

      there is ornamental offense, like shouting at cookies, and there is better time. i love shouting and silence. each in its field.

  42. chris

      Baking is sexy. I bet both gender bakers get much poundage.

  43. danny

      art schmart. more people will watch a naked woman fart on a cake than read a literary magazine.

  44. jereme

      haha implied? darby used implied. ha!

      all i read in #6 is some shit about being an individual and not wanting to conform to the systematizers.

      everything i know about you agrees with that sentiment.

      no?

  45. jereme

      individuality does not truly exist in democracy. come on, now.

  46. Steven Augustine

      Don’t be fooled by what people claim in those polls.

  47. darby

      what do you know about me? im the most conformist person here i bet.

  48. darby

      thinking more about this post, i think my issue has more to do with the sense its an attempt to stiffle debate and discussion here. like here is all of blakes opinions and they are so final that everyone is expected to just be quiet now. its like making an argument while subtly infusing a keep-your-opinions-to-yourself mentality. am i seeing it wrong?

  49. Ken Baumann

      Thank you.

      (said this earlier/comment got ate)

  50. jereme

      the most?!?

      do you forget the company you keep?

      hahaha

  51. jesusangelgarcia

      Darby, I think it’s just a humorous STFU post, directed to the bitch ‘n’ whiners. I think you’re taking it way too seriously. Is it happy hour yet?

  52. jesusangelgarcia

      of course, jereme. just meant real democracy is the flexing of voice. not flexing voice is not democracy, or not exercising the rights we have in a democracy. individual? not sure any of us are really individuals. socio-political system doesn’t change this.

  53. darby

      yeah, i should relax actually. why am i so wound up right now? its friday even.

      i have this fucking condescension/deception meter in my brain that is so hypersensitive. i need a massage or something.

  54. jereme

      you are right jesus. none of us are individuals here.

      it is my chief concern of sadness lately.

  55. darby

      haha, true. youd be surprised though, im pretty conformist.

  56. jereme

      i didn’t read that, darby.

      what i read was, “stop being a bitch and create. stop trying to destroy others. be productive or be silent.”

      i think blake’s opinions come out as “stern” or “final” because they are firm in his mind.

      i don’t know. that’s at least how it is with me.

      i say shit that sounds really final because i have thought about it for hours and hours in my mind, on the bus, in the shitter, at work. i am confident in my ideology is what i am saying.

      i think the same quality is showing up here in his writing.

  57. ryan

      Is it humorous when Blake couldn’t even take the time to READ the “bitch ‘n’ whiners” he was responding to? His participation in that thread was on the level of your garden-variety internet troll. I really don’t know why, but Blake seems intent on acting like an ignorant jackass; his ego is like it’s the size of a small planet.

  58. jereme

      i know for a fact blake reads pretty much every comment here.

      his response is selective.

      don’t be such an emo bitch.

  59. ryan

      Maybe he reads them, but he doesn’t take the care to respond to any of them thoughtfully. (At least not in that thread.)

  60. jereme

      ryan, are you aware you are illustrating his point?

  61. JimR

      Interesting. Where can I see some of this women farting on cake action? So I can reach my own conclusions, of course.

  62. jereme

      INTERNET

  63. ryan

      Not quite, jereme. Blake’s talking about the supposed sense of entitlement of wannabe artists, and about the freedom of editors to do what they want. We’re talking about engaging thoughtfully with the people who comment on the litblog that he himself owns. I (nor anyone else) am not entitled to a thoughtful response, but I have the right to call him an idiot/troll if he skim’s everyone argument and posts ridiculous arguments against the “general gist of the thread” that he invented.

  64. ryan

      skims*

  65. Blake Butler

      i felt that the gist of the Tin House thread had missed the central point. as is frequent in forums, and, from the way you summed it up, clearly in your reading of this post as well.

  66. Amber

      Dude, I don’t have the tattoo YET. Give me some time here! :)

  67. jesusangelgarcia

      naw, man. it’s a good thing. we are all one. not just interconnected, or related, but ONE — a single multidimensional entity. i’m 99.9% confident this is 100% truth. nothing to be sad about, I say. in fact, it’s kind of awe-inspiring, no? but hey, if you need a chief concern of sadness, there’s always this: we — as one — have an infinite capacity for self-destruction. howz that? same as it ever was… same as it ever was…

  68. jereme

      man, it always takes me a few hours to get up to date on all this scene bullshit.

      ryan,

      i understand you feel slighted but that is a matter of ego. like i said, stop being such a bitch.

      blake clearly speaks to you in #6: “It’s my fucking magazine! I started that motherfucker so I could do what I wanted to with it!”

      is that not a lucid statement?

      btw, what the fuck is a thoughtful response?

      most people dismiss what i say because of the way i say it—i’m an aggressive douche.

      blake has been one of the few people who looks past the knee-jerking, and actually provides interesting feedback.

      like what is the big fucking issue. you aren’t complaining that gene morgan is ignoring you. that fucking prick IGNORES EVERYONE.

      you should be mad about that.

  69. jesusangelgarcia

      @darby — yeah, man. here’s a prescription just for you: massage, beer, sushi, orgasm. if you were in the bay area, i’d treat you to the middle two.

  70. drew kalbach

      i understand how you feel, darby. i feel that way almost every time i see blake talk about how people should talk about / feel about / go about writing. but then again, at least he’s a little funny and interesting about it, so he’s got most of us beat already.

  71. ryan

      Blake, your objections in that thread to those against the Tin House decision were completely beside the point. Maybe they didn’t address what you felt was the “central point,” but let’s not pretend that you were actually conversing anything but strawmen in that thread.

      Your whole “act” on this blog seems to center around deliberately misreading the comment-thread and then following up with a few empty gnomic statements that address no one in particular yet carry a dismissive undertone of “ha ha, look at all the whiners, taking these silly things so SERIOUS!”

      Which, you know, you can act however you want. I’m just sick of it, personally, and I don’t understand why you persist in acting that way.

  72. Blake Butler

      you are overanalyzing my tone. i am a person like anyone else, with opinions. i would never claim otherwise.

  73. ryan

      jereme,

      I don’t feel slighted, really. I wasn’t very invested in that discussion, and my participation was pretty scattershot.

      And I like “agressive douches.” The faux-timid and the “polite” are mostly who drive me insane. Nice talking with you, jereme.

  74. ryan

      “i would also add that the posts here, the actual content, is the focus. not the comment threads.”

      Er, OK.

      I may be overanalyzing your tone, Blake. Sorry for that. I’m admittedly judging you based on one thread, and the space that thread takes up in your life is probably like 0.0000001% at most. At any rate, though, I thought your tone throughout that 0.0000001% was pretty nauseating.

      Anyhow, I’m done.

  75. Sean

      Welcome back from the islands, blake. there is some gasoline in your voice today. u need nachos. blake doesn’t seem stern or final to me, he’s ping-ponging ideas he is thinking today. also fuck you blake (just to balance things0

      i think he’s saying self pity is the most wasted emotion on planet Nerf/Earth

      i assume he’s trying to rag some other post, too. dude has a pattern, like us all.

      can anyone find me some mica?

      what is mica?

      blar me

  76. jesusangelgarcia

      yeah yeah… my email is available for jpeg attachments. so ya know.

  77. jesusangelgarcia

      “No emotion is the final one.” — Jeanette Winterson

  78. Amy

      Amen.

  79. Vern

      Shut the fuck up, Blake.

  80. marshall

      Yeah. That seems like a good idea. I say in my head “shut the fuck up, Marshall; just shut the fuck up” all the time. It would probably be good if everyone shut the fuck up.

      “STFU”

      “cool story bro”

      “tl;dr”

  81. Donald

      Opinion is divided.

  82. marshall
  83. Matthew Simmons

      Appears so. Think we’ll need to go to the judges for a ruling.

  84. marshall

      woooooooooooooord

  85. jesusangelgarcia

      Love how these barrel into a crescendo. I’m like oh yeah, Oh yeah, Oh Yeah, OH YEAH, ha! And yet I keep returning to… “THIS WHOLE THING IS LA LA LAND” (and cake from the gas station, whaaa…?).

      3x Amy’s amen & a hallelujah (icing).

  86. rk

      “Writing something does not guarantee you the right to have someone look at it, acknowledge it, read it, enjoy it, consider it for publication, have it for breakfast.”

      Right on. Even more so the hard one to learn is once someone does read it, look at it, enjoy it etc doesn’t make you a better person, doesn’t make your writing any better, doesn’t make you any happier in the long run. What I finally learned is the only sure goal is to write to your own contentment and whatever happens happens. The Long Silence is a terrible drag and at times we all want to feel involved and invited and like our stuff belongs, but if you’re writing anything that matters in the end what you’re writing is all that matters, right?

  87. Guest

      I lolled at this. Damn.

  88. Guest

      “Shut the fuck up” seems to be one of the most beautiful phrases in the English language.

  89. Joseph Young

      such a noisy silence.

  90. Justin Taylor

      To be honest, I hoped that I might get to make some sex out of this. For what it’s worth, sometimes I do.
      But mostly what I wanted to say is- #9 #9 #9.
      And that, the next time I’m giving someone a stern talking to, I am going to suggest “maybe your cake is from a gas station,” with an entirely straight face and then act as if this is an expression everyone knows and understands.

  91. alan

      Seems like a typo at the end of #3, like it means to refer back to #2 not #1?

  92. Blake Butler

      this is not an example of silence.

  93. darby

      its the whole silence theme that gives it a sense of finality, not blakes tone necessarily, like here’s my opinion and now you can’t talk back! be quiet! maybe its all a little tongue-in-cheek. im tired of tongues in cheeks. could everyone stop sticking their tongues in their fucking cheeks?

      i dont know, i approach discussion differently. discussion and debate in these threads i dont see as “destroying others,” i see as the opposite. everyones always getting upset at the craziness in the htmlgiant discussion threads when they go a direction they didnt expect or a way that is opposed to their position, and thats sad cause i think the comments at this site are anything but “bitching and whining” and are mostly incredibly sincere and real, stemming from uninhibited gut reactions. i think i’ll always shout against firm walls even if I stand with the wall, just because i am bothered by firmness of position, which reads as closed-mindedness to me. telling me i have to listen to your opinion and then am supposed to just be quiet is pretty face-slapping to me. discussion is not just i stand here you stand there lets find a way to be happy, it should be more gut-pulling, more node-opening.

  94. Joseph Young

      ( )

  95. Blake Butler

      :)

      i wonder how many cake bakers get sex vs. how many writers?

  96. mjm

      No to some, yes to some.

      Yes and No to some and some more.

      Somalia.

  97. darby2

      relativism isn’t really a healthy alternative though. you have to take some stance on some things. otherwise you’ll never care about anything.

  98. jereme

      i think you are dwelling on the “silence” thing too much man. did you read the title?

      “better silence”

  99. Joseph Riippi

      This was good cake.

  100. Adam Robinson

      Slap me ten.

  101. mark leidner

      all american babies are born with air guitars in their hands

  102. darby2

      better for who?

  103. jesusangelgarcia

      yeah, a friend of mine says we should just post “STFU” on every blog and web site. graffiti the entire www.

  104. darby

      better for everyone

  105. darby2

      shh

  106. goner

      LeBron James is the most interesting American artist working today.

      Let them eat cake.

  107. jesusangelgarcia
  108. jereme

      “Type of my disciples. To those human beings in whom I have a stake I wish suffering, being forsaken, sickness, maltreatment, humiliation—I wish that that profound self-contempt, the torture of mistrust of oneself, and the misery of him who is overcome, not remain unknown to them: I have no pity for them because I wish them the only thing which can prove today whether one has worth or not—that one holds out.”

  109. darby2

      shhh!

  110. Pontius J. LaBar

      If you wouldn’t do it anyway, stop doing it.

  111. Tim

      Yes on the gas station cake. Let’s make that motherfucker a standard phrase.

      I too hoped for sex out of this and got a little. Less than I’d hoped for but more than I should have expected.

  112. lily hoang

      I would bake a very good cake for you, Blake, for you and anyone else here.

  113. Joseph Young

      seriously, though, blake, pretty hard to train someone to silence, esp a art maker type–thus this post. and noise is just when you don’t like the music.

      and plus plus, we all got into it for the sex and money. or rather their what they stand for–love.

  114. Blake Butler

      mm, please.

  115. jesusangelgarcia
  116. Amber

      “Art is not democracy.” I’m tatooing this on my ass so the next time someone whines at me about such-and-such isn’t fair or how come they didn’t have a say, I can moon them my message.

  117. bill

      Blake, you are the cake baker.

  118. john carney

      with other writers i’m guessing — the sex

      nothing wrong with that, just saying

  119. darby

      hint taken

  120. Mark C

      i hope to make sex out of everything, and most of the time I don’t.

  121. darby

      thats probably the one i dont agree with. art is not a democracy doesnt necessarily mean your not allowed to be upset or offended by something. someone shouts fuck you on the street at me, even though i acknolwedge his right to shout that doesnt mean i cant echo it back at him. im supposed to be silent and say to myself, well he has a freedom of speech i guess. art is not a democracy should only mean that people can do what they want, it shouldn’t also mean that people must be happy with what everyone chooses to do.

  122. jereme

      where in that list does he say the above?

  123. Michael

      i don’t know

  124. jesusangelgarcia

      OK, Amber, I’m calling your bluff: whine whine whine… such-and-such and this-and-that just ain’t fair. Why, oh why?

      Now what.

  125. Blake Butler

      i think i argued exactly what you are saying darby. that people do not have to be happy with what you choose to do.

  126. darby

      implied in #6

  127. darby

      i think i am in favor of shouting at things im offended by though, you seem to be in favor of silence.

  128. jesusangelgarcia

      Democracy is cacophony, the cacophony of everyone exercising their right to flex their individual voice. I’m guessing Blake’s arguing that art isn’t democracy in that no one is guaranteed a voice in every forum (i.e., publishing format, public opinion, etc.) so they should just STFU.

  129. Ken Baumann

      Thank you.

  130. Blake Butler

      there is ornamental offense, like shouting at cookies, and there is better time. i love shouting and silence. each in its field.

  131. chris

      Baking is sexy. I bet both gender bakers get much poundage.

  132. danny

      art schmart. more people will watch a naked woman fart on a cake than read a literary magazine.

  133. jereme

      haha implied? darby used implied. ha!

      all i read in #6 is some shit about being an individual and not wanting to conform to the systematizers.

      everything i know about you agrees with that sentiment.

      no?

  134. jereme

      individuality does not truly exist in democracy. come on, now.

  135. Steven Augustine

      Don’t be fooled by what people claim in those polls.

  136. darby

      what do you know about me? im the most conformist person here i bet.

  137. darby

      thinking more about this post, i think my issue has more to do with the sense its an attempt to stiffle debate and discussion here. like here is all of blakes opinions and they are so final that everyone is expected to just be quiet now. its like making an argument while subtly infusing a keep-your-opinions-to-yourself mentality. am i seeing it wrong?

  138. Ken Baumann

      Thank you.

      (said this earlier/comment got ate)

  139. jereme

      the most?!?

      do you forget the company you keep?

      hahaha

  140. jesusangelgarcia

      Darby, I think it’s just a humorous STFU post, directed to the bitch ‘n’ whiners. I think you’re taking it way too seriously. Is it happy hour yet?

  141. jesusangelgarcia

      of course, jereme. just meant real democracy is the flexing of voice. not flexing voice is not democracy, or not exercising the rights we have in a democracy. individual? not sure any of us are really individuals. socio-political system doesn’t change this.

  142. darby

      yeah, i should relax actually. why am i so wound up right now? its friday even.

      i have this fucking condescension/deception meter in my brain that is so hypersensitive. i need a massage or something.

  143. jereme

      you are right jesus. none of us are individuals here.

      it is my chief concern of sadness lately.

  144. darby

      haha, true. youd be surprised though, im pretty conformist.

  145. jereme

      i didn’t read that, darby.

      what i read was, “stop being a bitch and create. stop trying to destroy others. be productive or be silent.”

      i think blake’s opinions come out as “stern” or “final” because they are firm in his mind.

      i don’t know. that’s at least how it is with me.

      i say shit that sounds really final because i have thought about it for hours and hours in my mind, on the bus, in the shitter, at work. i am confident in my ideology is what i am saying.

      i think the same quality is showing up here in his writing.

  146. ryan

      Is it humorous when Blake couldn’t even take the time to READ the “bitch ‘n’ whiners” he was responding to? His participation in that thread was on the level of your garden-variety internet troll. I really don’t know why, but Blake seems intent on acting like an ignorant jackass; his ego is like it’s the size of a small planet.

  147. jereme

      i know for a fact blake reads pretty much every comment here.

      his response is selective.

      don’t be such an emo bitch.

  148. ryan

      Maybe he reads them, but he doesn’t take the care to respond to any of them thoughtfully. (At least not in that thread.)

  149. jereme

      ryan, are you aware you are illustrating his point?

  150. JimR

      Interesting. Where can I see some of this women farting on cake action? So I can reach my own conclusions, of course.

  151. jereme

      INTERNET

  152. ryan

      Not quite, jereme. Blake’s talking about the supposed sense of entitlement of wannabe artists, and about the freedom of editors to do what they want. We’re talking about engaging thoughtfully with the people who comment on the litblog that he himself owns. I (nor anyone else) am not entitled to a thoughtful response, but I have the right to call him an idiot/troll if he skim’s everyone argument and posts ridiculous arguments against the “general gist of the thread” that he invented.

  153. ryan

      skims*

  154. Blake Butler

      i felt that the gist of the Tin House thread had missed the central point. as is frequent in forums, and, from the way you summed it up, clearly in your reading of this post as well.

  155. Amber

      Dude, I don’t have the tattoo YET. Give me some time here! :)

  156. jesusangelgarcia

      naw, man. it’s a good thing. we are all one. not just interconnected, or related, but ONE — a single multidimensional entity. i’m 99.9% confident this is 100% truth. nothing to be sad about, I say. in fact, it’s kind of awe-inspiring, no? but hey, if you need a chief concern of sadness, there’s always this: we — as one — have an infinite capacity for self-destruction. howz that? same as it ever was… same as it ever was…

  157. jereme

      man, it always takes me a few hours to get up to date on all this scene bullshit.

      ryan,

      i understand you feel slighted but that is a matter of ego. like i said, stop being such a bitch.

      blake clearly speaks to you in #6: “It’s my fucking magazine! I started that motherfucker so I could do what I wanted to with it!”

      is that not a lucid statement?

      btw, what the fuck is a thoughtful response?

      most people dismiss what i say because of the way i say it—i’m an aggressive douche.

      blake has been one of the few people who looks past the knee-jerking, and actually provides interesting feedback.

      like what is the big fucking issue. you aren’t complaining that gene morgan is ignoring you. that fucking prick IGNORES EVERYONE.

      you should be mad about that.

  158. jesusangelgarcia

      @darby — yeah, man. here’s a prescription just for you: massage, beer, sushi, orgasm. if you were in the bay area, i’d treat you to the middle two.

  159. drew kalbach

      i understand how you feel, darby. i feel that way almost every time i see blake talk about how people should talk about / feel about / go about writing. but then again, at least he’s a little funny and interesting about it, so he’s got most of us beat already.

  160. ryan

      Blake, your objections in that thread to those against the Tin House decision were completely beside the point. Maybe they didn’t address what you felt was the “central point,” but let’s not pretend that you were actually conversing anything but strawmen in that thread.

      Your whole “act” on this blog seems to center around deliberately misreading the comment-thread and then following up with a few empty gnomic statements that address no one in particular yet carry a dismissive undertone of “ha ha, look at all the whiners, taking these silly things so SERIOUS!”

      Which, you know, you can act however you want. I’m just sick of it, personally, and I don’t understand why you persist in acting that way.

  161. Blake Butler

      you are overanalyzing my tone. i am a person like anyone else, with opinions. i would never claim otherwise.

  162. ryan

      jereme,

      I don’t feel slighted, really. I wasn’t very invested in that discussion, and my participation was pretty scattershot.

      And I like “agressive douches.” The faux-timid and the “polite” are mostly who drive me insane. Nice talking with you, jereme.

  163. ryan

      “i would also add that the posts here, the actual content, is the focus. not the comment threads.”

      Er, OK.

      I may be overanalyzing your tone, Blake. Sorry for that. I’m admittedly judging you based on one thread, and the space that thread takes up in your life is probably like 0.0000001% at most. At any rate, though, I thought your tone throughout that 0.0000001% was pretty nauseating.

      Anyhow, I’m done.

  164. Sean

      Welcome back from the islands, blake. there is some gasoline in your voice today. u need nachos. blake doesn’t seem stern or final to me, he’s ping-ponging ideas he is thinking today. also fuck you blake (just to balance things0

      i think he’s saying self pity is the most wasted emotion on planet Nerf/Earth

      i assume he’s trying to rag some other post, too. dude has a pattern, like us all.

      can anyone find me some mica?

      what is mica?

      blar me

  165. jesusangelgarcia

      yeah yeah… my email is available for jpeg attachments. so ya know.

  166. jesusangelgarcia

      “No emotion is the final one.” — Jeanette Winterson

  167. mimi

      hey j a g-
      Oscar Grant trumped all at my house yesterday evening, for a while anyway.
      Is that your footage? Were you there? Such interesting juxtapositions of music, crowd, etc. Parts seem peaceful almost in the midst of it all. Wow.
      ~ 3 pm yesterday I was “sent home” by a government agency that got heads up about the verdict.
      I went home and tottered on the verge of tears/listened to the TV/hid my head in the sand (guiltily).
      I’ve been listening to my students about this story intensely for the last few weeks. Heartbreaking. Thanks for this vid.

  168. Guest

      Yeah. That seems like a good idea. I say in my head “shut the fuck up, Marshall; just shut the fuck up” all the time. It would probably be good if everyone shut the fuck up.

      “STFU”

      “cool story bro”

      “tl;dr”

  169. Guest
  170. Guest

      woooooooooooooord

  171. alan

      Seems like a typo at the end of #3, like it means to refer back to #2 not #1?

  172. darby

      its the whole silence theme that gives it a sense of finality, not blakes tone necessarily, like here’s my opinion and now you can’t talk back! be quiet! maybe its all a little tongue-in-cheek. im tired of tongues in cheeks. could everyone stop sticking their tongues in their fucking cheeks?

      i dont know, i approach discussion differently. discussion and debate in these threads i dont see as “destroying others,” i see as the opposite. everyones always getting upset at the craziness in the htmlgiant discussion threads when they go a direction they didnt expect or a way that is opposed to their position, and thats sad cause i think the comments at this site are anything but “bitching and whining” and are mostly incredibly sincere and real, stemming from uninhibited gut reactions. i think i’ll always shout against firm walls even if I stand with the wall, just because i am bothered by firmness of position, which reads as closed-mindedness to me. telling me i have to listen to your opinion and then am supposed to just be quiet is pretty face-slapping to me. discussion is not just i stand here you stand there lets find a way to be happy, it should be more gut-pulling, more node-opening.

  173. darby2

      relativism isn’t really a healthy alternative though. you have to take some stance on some things. otherwise you’ll never care about anything.

  174. jereme

      i think you are dwelling on the “silence” thing too much man. did you read the title?

      “better silence”

  175. darby2

      better for who?

  176. darby

      better for everyone

  177. darby2

      shh

  178. jereme

      “Type of my disciples. To those human beings in whom I have a stake I wish suffering, being forsaken, sickness, maltreatment, humiliation—I wish that that profound self-contempt, the torture of mistrust of oneself, and the misery of him who is overcome, not remain unknown to them: I have no pity for them because I wish them the only thing which can prove today whether one has worth or not—that one holds out.”

  179. darby2

      shhh!

  180. zusya17

      dunno if it matters, you care, or i care.. but i had serious problem reading this list. readability is a virtue, bon-homie. this made me laugh like an Agent Smith: “Birthday parties are for toddlers.”

  181. mimi

      hey j a g-
      Oscar Grant trumped all at my house yesterday evening, for a while anyway.
      Is that your footage? Were you there? Such interesting juxtapositions of music, crowd, etc. Parts seem peaceful almost in the midst of it all. Wow.
      ~ 3 pm yesterday I was “sent home” by a government agency that got heads up about the verdict.
      I went home and tottered on the verge of tears/listened to the TV/hid my head in the sand (guiltily).
      I’ve been listening to my students about this story intensely for the last few weeks. Heartbreaking. Thanks for this vid.

  182. jesusangelgarcia

      Yeah. Thanks for watching and writing, Mimi. You’re in the Bay Area? We should see a reading sometime, no?

      Yesterday evening, yeah, I went to the 24 hour gym on Webster as they were locking it up. The streets were deserted. Eerie. I went home and watched the coverage online and tried to talk to folks about it, but there was more interest in LeBron James, which pushed me over the edge.

      The verdict was unjust. The crime was cold-blooded, point-blank murder — of a young black man by a white police officer — despite the jury’s designation of “involuntary manslaughter,” and yet all most people wanted to do was talk about basketball. I couldn’t even find anyone brave or interested enough to go down there with me to check it out, so I said fuck it and went alone with my camera. I had to see for myself, ya know?

      It was a curious time, just before sundown, and I felt the mood shift — like Blake talks about: in my body — from peaceful positive protest to something ugly: a mix of anticipation/excitement, fear and aggression re: the violence to come. Real combo of ages, races, gender, political causes represented, too. I love Oakland. San Francisco, too. I was glad the cops seemed to be doing the right thing, but I wasn’t counting on it, so I got outta there before it got wild wild. The refrain I’ve been putting out all day: ignorance in the courtroom or on the streets is one and the same. Sad, ugly, disheartening… and yet, in some ways, the same old. Yeah, it still bothers me. Thanks for watching.

  183. Steven Augustine

      1. writing is ghost shit
      2. writing is fucking your inner child
      3. writing is meatchunk checkers
      4. writing is super-gnat
      5. writing is always forgetting not to write
      6. writing is solid gold condoms
      7. writing is making soup with a cemetery
      8. writing is a gerbil with an actor up her ass
      9. writing is stealing your stash and selling it to yourself at a discount at gunpoint
      10. writing is pussy gnosis
      11. write

  184. zusya17

      right.

  185. zusya17

      right

  186. jesusangelgarcia

      Yeah. Thanks for watching and writing, Mimi. You’re in the Bay Area? We should see a reading sometime, no?

      Yesterday evening, yeah, I went to the 24 hour gym on Webster as they were locking it up. The streets were deserted. Eerie. I went home and watched the coverage online and tried to talk to folks about it, but there was more interest in LeBron James, which pushed me over the edge.

      The verdict was unjust. The crime was cold-blooded, point-blank murder — of a young black man by a white police officer — despite the jury’s designation of “involuntary manslaughter,” and yet all most people wanted to do was talk about basketball. I couldn’t even find anyone brave or interested enough to go down there with me to check it out, so I said fuck it and went alone with my camera. I had to see for myself, ya know?

      It was a curious time, just before sundown, and I felt the mood shift — like Blake talks about: in my body — from peaceful positive protest to something ugly: a mix of anticipation/excitement, fear and aggression re: the violence to come. Real combo of ages, races, gender, political causes represented, too. I love Oakland. San Francisco, too. I was glad the cops seemed to be doing the right thing, but I wasn’t counting on it, so I got outta there before it got wild wild. The refrain I’ve been putting out all day: ignorance in the courtroom or on the streets is one and the same. Sad, ugly, disheartening… and yet, in some ways, the same old. Yeah, it still bothers me. Thanks for watching.

  187. Steven Augustine

      Zus, you are either a security guard, a doomed insomniac, or posting from a distant locale. We must know the secret

  188. Steven Augustine

      1. writing is ghost shit
      2. writing is fucking your inner child
      3. writing is meatchunk checkers
      4. writing is super-gnat
      5. writing is always forgetting not to write
      6. writing is solid gold condoms
      7. writing is making soup with a cemetery
      8. writing is a gerbil with an actor up her ass
      9. writing is stealing your stash and selling it to yourself at a discount at gunpoint
      10. writing is pussy gnosis
      11. write

  189. zusya17

      i’ve never been a security guard, but i read faulkner was one when he wrote The Sound and the Fury.

      but dude, who’s ‘we‘?

  190. Steven Augustine
  191. Steven Augustine

      Zus, you are either a security guard, a doomed insomniac, or posting from a distant locale. We must know the secret

  192. mimi

      There are about five places on HTML GIANT right now where I want to comment “Ew”.

  193. Steven Augustine
  194. MoGa

      Can I have one?

  195. MoGa

      Why am I always late to these comment parties? And I love this post. #9 especially.

  196. mimi

      There are about five places on HTML GIANT right now where I want to comment “Ew”.

  197. Molly Gaudry

      Can I have one?

  198. Molly Gaudry

      Why am I always late to these comment parties? And I love this post. #9 especially.

  199. zusya17

      heh: ‘we don’t like when they take pictures’ and ‘the whole world doesn’t need to know who we’re dating or what we’re going to do and everything’

  200. zusya17

      i’m never going to figure out this site’s spam filters. first it eats my first “right.” then says i’ve already posted it, i take out the “.” and it ends up posting both, now the quotes i cherry-picked from that… video are gone. harumph. harumph i say!

      and steve: oh boy is your site NFSW. will read through those.. posts(?) when i get off work. it is now 1:19pm where i am.

  201. Steven Augustine

      “and steve: oh boy is your site NFSW. will read through those.. posts(?) when i get off work. it is now 1:19pm where i am.”

      A) NSFH, either!
      B) I’m guessing South Korea

  202. Steven Pine
  203. zusya17

      A) hah, true if the H stands for households. i can picture some of those pics that flashed me earlier in the day causing a lot of “some ‘splainin’ to do” w/r/t general spousal intrigue at what naughty things online have been corrupting the mind lately…
      B) no!”

  204. Steven Augustine

      “and steve: oh boy is your site NFSW. will read through those.. posts(?) when i get off work. it is now 1:19pm where i am.”

      A) NSFH, either!
      B) I’m guessing South Korea

  205. Steven Pine
  206. Steven Augustine

      Zus: fave comment I’ve ever seen in a Abby-Brittany thread: “I’d hit those”

  207. Steven Augustine

      Zus: fave comment I’ve ever seen in a Abby-Brittany thread: “I’d hit those”

  208. JW Veldhoen

      5

  209. Tim Jones-Yelvington

      I love “This whole thing is la la land.”

  210. Tim Jones-Yelvington

      I don’t think Blake is anti-shouting. Blake has been the loudest advocate against Narrative’s policies and also written some great broad critiques of why many institutional publications are risk-averse.

      I think any institutional or systemic critiques of shit in publishing need to be decoupled as much as possible from our own writing practices, or else they just end up sounding like number 4, and nobody wants to hear that.

  211. Tim Jones-Yelvington

      I think maybe Hostess has its place.

  212. Tim Jones-Yelvington

      I love “This whole thing is la la land.”

  213. Tim Jones-Yelvington

      I don’t think Blake is anti-shouting. Blake has been the loudest advocate against Narrative’s policies and also written some great broad critiques of why many institutional publications are risk-averse.

      I think any institutional or systemic critiques of shit in publishing need to be decoupled as much as possible from our own writing practices, or else they just end up sounding like number 4, and nobody wants to hear that.

  214. Tim Jones-Yelvington

      I think maybe Hostess has its place.

  215. Caos calmo « Quem tem medo de Virginia Woolf?

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