Mean
Fleeced by FC2?
'baaaaahhhht what did ewe think of my manuscript?'
We’ve shit on Narrative Magazine so much that I thought it might be fun to have it go the other way round for once: here’s someone shitting on a press that I really like.
I give you a link to and excerpt from Tim W. Brown’s essay in Preditors and Editors and in the ULA’s Monday Report. The essay, published in 2006, is (hilariously?) titled “FLEECED by FC2: Being an INVESTIGATION into the CONFLICTS of INTEREST and SELF-DEALING that Plague the Publisher FICTION COLLECTIVE 2, with ADDITIONAL OBSERVATIONS on the Academic-Government Complex, Proper Organisational Stewardship, &c.”
Responses?
Excerpt after the break.
Enjoy!
Brown writes:
…FC2’s books are written by tenured radicals based in creative writing programs in universities around the U.S. Together they form a “collective,” a small coterie of authors of fiction on the self-styled “cutting edge.” FC2 authors fancy themselves avant garde and “transgressive” – as transgressive as you can be, I suppose, living in college towns and congregating in university classrooms. FC2 long ago left behind Brooklyn and any rude edges it ever had, and its operations are now divided among three verdant state university campuses. Collective members are extremely tribal about whom they choose to enter their club. Acolytes of über-plagiarist Kathy Acker, they exist outside her Downtown space/time continuum, but they sorely wish they had hung out in the East Village back in the 1980s and made the scene with her.
Yet my interest in FC2 isn’t really about the content of its list – if the press considers surrealistic logorrhea to be fine literature and want to publish it, that’s perfectly okay with me.
The truth is nobody has much interest in FC2’s books’ content, there being far less interest than I expected before my investigation. The press sells small print runs of their titles mostly to libraries. A recent grant application to the Florida Department of Cultural Affairs (DCA) expressed the “hope” of selling 700 out of a total of 1,500 copies printed of each title it planned to publish in 2005-2006. Despite a few admiring critics who have reviewed their titles in a handful of mainstream and independent periodicals, there isn’t much public curiosity in or commercial market for their books.
FC2’s operations and funding are extremely opaque. It was like investigating Enron when I looked into its business affairs. Early in my inquiry, I emailed Berry asking about the relationship between public funding of FC2 and regular publication of its board members. Berry responded, imperiously, “[W]e are not a division of Florida’s state government, we are not subject to its ‘sunshine laws,’ and disclosure of financial information is at our discretion, as in the case of other private corporations.” Because Berry was less-than-forthcoming about FC2’s finances, I was forced to rely upon publicly available tax records and grant application information to piece together FC2’s business operations…
To read the rest of the essay go here.
“über-plagiarist Kathy Acker”?
“über-plagiarist Kathy Acker”?
hater.
hater.
the difference to me seems pretty clear, and this guy is just sad sounding.
the difference to me seems pretty clear, and this guy is just sad sounding.
its an interesting example, though, of how publishing ‘people you know’ isn’t what the problem is here.
if we had to question any one with public funding for their practices, i think 80% or more would have their funding taken away
the difference, regarding fc2 vs narrative, is between a direct and indirect feeding off of what you suppose yourself to promote, in the case of Narrative, and happening to publish people you associate with (which happens with pretty much any literary institution ever.)
2nd that one, Nate. Anyone with such a rudimentary understanding of what Acker was up to doesn’t need to be listened to. Goodbye, credibility. Hello, tin-foil hat. I also dig the usage of “imperiously,” as if there’s nothing more evil in this world than refusing to disclose private financial information about your organization to a stranger over the phone. “It was just like investigating Enron…” well i guess this dude would know, since he headed both investigations….
its an interesting example, though, of how publishing ‘people you know’ isn’t what the problem is here.
if we had to question any one with public funding for their practices, i think 80% or more would have their funding taken away
the difference, regarding fc2 vs narrative, is between a direct and indirect feeding off of what you suppose yourself to promote, in the case of Narrative, and happening to publish people you associate with (which happens with pretty much any literary institution ever.)
2nd that one, Nate. Anyone with such a rudimentary understanding of what Acker was up to doesn’t need to be listened to. Goodbye, credibility. Hello, tin-foil hat. I also dig the usage of “imperiously,” as if there’s nothing more evil in this world than refusing to disclose private financial information about your organization to a stranger over the phone. “It was just like investigating Enron…” well i guess this dude would know, since he headed both investigations….
Agreed.
What I dislike about this article is the tossed off insult “über-plagiarist Kathy Acker”. Acker’s use of classic (out of copyright) texts does not seem to be plagiarism as far as I can tell.
Agreed.
What I dislike about this article is the tossed off insult “über-plagiarist Kathy Acker”. Acker’s use of classic (out of copyright) texts does not seem to be plagiarism as far as I can tell.
Full disclosure: I submitted my novel, Walking Man, to FC2 in 2004. When submitting I knew the book didn’t precisely fit with FC2’s list; still, it was thematically quirky and formally inventive enough to stand half a chance of acceptance. The book was ultimately rejected.
When I recently contacted FC2’s Executive Director, R.M. “Ralph” Berry, a creative writing professor at Florida State University, with my questions about FC2’s operations, one of the first questions he asked me in his sarcastic reply was whether I had submitted my work to FC2 in the past, suggesting I were a disgruntled rejected author. Making such an accusation is the first refuge of literary scoundrels, an inversion of Dr. Johnson’s formulation that patriotism is the last refuge of political scoundrels.
Sincerely,
Charles Kinbote
Full disclosure: I submitted my novel, Walking Man, to FC2 in 2004. When submitting I knew the book didn’t precisely fit with FC2’s list; still, it was thematically quirky and formally inventive enough to stand half a chance of acceptance. The book was ultimately rejected.
When I recently contacted FC2’s Executive Director, R.M. “Ralph” Berry, a creative writing professor at Florida State University, with my questions about FC2’s operations, one of the first questions he asked me in his sarcastic reply was whether I had submitted my work to FC2 in the past, suggesting I were a disgruntled rejected author. Making such an accusation is the first refuge of literary scoundrels, an inversion of Dr. Johnson’s formulation that patriotism is the last refuge of political scoundrels.
Sincerely,
Charles Kinbote
kathy acker self-identified as a plagiarist/was a champion of plagiarism as political and creative practice.
i think the essay is contrasting acker as genuine radical with fc2 members as somehow fake radicals because they work in an institutional setting. which is dumb, but the article is dumb in general and also mean-spirited.
kathy acker self-identified as a plagiarist/was a champion of plagiarism as political and creative practice.
i think the essay is contrasting acker as genuine radical with fc2 members as somehow fake radicals because they work in an institutional setting. which is dumb, but the article is dumb in general and also mean-spirited.
Yes, he is complimenting acker and mocking the professors.
So radicals can only live in Brooklyn now?
Those ULA people every now and again hit upon a target deserving of scorn, though I guess that’s to be expected if you just swing wildly at everything. I’d have more respect for them if the writing they thought should be promoted, in place of what they criticize (which, again, is pretty much everything) weren’t so laughably terrible. I remember finding some examples on their web site of what they considered “good” writing (though it took some hunting, since their project is ultimately more concerned with destruction than creation) and felt like I’d opened the doors into Bizarro World.
So radicals can only live in Brooklyn now?
Those ULA people every now and again hit upon a target deserving of scorn, though I guess that’s to be expected if you just swing wildly at everything. I’d have more respect for them if the writing they thought should be promoted, in place of what they criticize (which, again, is pretty much everything) weren’t so laughably terrible. I remember finding some examples on their web site of what they considered “good” writing (though it took some hunting, since their project is ultimately more concerned with destruction than creation) and felt like I’d opened the doors into Bizarro World.
ahh i somehow missed the ULA reference
that explains it all
ahh i somehow missed the ULA reference
that explains it all
the problem with the ULA is that they’re such intellectually bankrupt blowhards, even when they’re right they manage to still be wrong. It’s almost miraculous, actually.
the problem with the ULA is that they’re such intellectually bankrupt blowhards, even when they’re right they manage to still be wrong. It’s almost miraculous, actually.
Yes. And that’s a compliment!
Yes. And that’s a compliment!
Even Kathy admitted she plagiarized stuff. In fact, she had to publicly apologize to one contemporary writer for using his stuff without permission! I think plagiarism is a high compliment. I do it all the time–repurpose stuff, recontextualize things, use sentences I like in other things–it’s fun.
Of course, to admit you plagiarize stuff is not really committing an act of plagiarism, is it?
Anyways, I agree with you Nathan. What Kathy did was not really plagiarism.
Even Kathy admitted she plagiarized stuff. In fact, she had to publicly apologize to one contemporary writer for using his stuff without permission! I think plagiarism is a high compliment. I do it all the time–repurpose stuff, recontextualize things, use sentences I like in other things–it’s fun.
Of course, to admit you plagiarize stuff is not really committing an act of plagiarism, is it?
Anyways, I agree with you Nathan. What Kathy did was not really plagiarism.
I think that FC2 has always been under scrutiny for being a vanity press. Berry adressed this in an interiew that I believe you can stream straight from their site. Ronald Sukenick and the folks who started the press used to publish eachother on the imprint that is now moving to University of Houston-Victoria (a small conservative town in south east texas). It’s not Brooklyn, hooray. But FC2 hasn’t always just published academics or those tied in to academia. Larry Fondation won the FC2 prize (now called the Sukenick prize) in ’91 and he is a community organizer. (And a bad ass writer who you fuckers should read). And a lot of the writers that FC2 has published have gone on to have lasting and credible literary careers (Brian Evenson, Michael Martone) and that takes a lot more than one publication from a small academic press. It takes a following (of sorts) and the fact that FC2 culled lasting authors with non-traditional styles is impressive.
I think that FC2 has always been under scrutiny for being a vanity press. Berry adressed this in an interiew that I believe you can stream straight from their site. Ronald Sukenick and the folks who started the press used to publish eachother on the imprint that is now moving to University of Houston-Victoria (a small conservative town in south east texas). It’s not Brooklyn, hooray. But FC2 hasn’t always just published academics or those tied in to academia. Larry Fondation won the FC2 prize (now called the Sukenick prize) in ’91 and he is a community organizer. (And a bad ass writer who you fuckers should read). And a lot of the writers that FC2 has published have gone on to have lasting and credible literary careers (Brian Evenson, Michael Martone) and that takes a lot more than one publication from a small academic press. It takes a following (of sorts) and the fact that FC2 culled lasting authors with non-traditional styles is impressive.
There’s a major difference between a pay-for-play vanity press and a publishing collective. I think it’s really reductive to conflate the two. Very rare are the times when something is as simply black&white as we like to make them seem here. Look at the McSweeney’s example- when Dave Eggers published “What is the What” through his own press, was that “vanity”? Or was it maybe more like the recognition that he’s the most established/famous name in his own outfit, and therefore he’s his own best shot at funding/profile-raising for the press itself. Joshua Beckman does a similar thing by publishing his books through Wave Books. Like so many other things in literature, it’s a “smell test” or “know it when I see it”-type standard. I think calling FC2 out for publishing people on their board or whatever is to do more than miss the point– it’s to intentionally reverse the point. it’s disingenuous.
Did anyone check their author page? It’s got about 100 people on i- from Mark Amerika to Diane Williams, with pitstops along the way like Lucy Corin and Leslie Scalapino. Did anyone check their Board of Directors page? It’s got ten people on it, including Lance Olsen and Noy Holland. Anyone want to challenge these guys’ authenticity/cred/whatever? If so, fyi: wear a metal colander on your head when they start shooting the mind-control rays at you; you’ll go through less tinfoil that way. And thanks for playing.
There’s a major difference between a pay-for-play vanity press and a publishing collective. I think it’s really reductive to conflate the two. Very rare are the times when something is as simply black&white as we like to make them seem here. Look at the McSweeney’s example- when Dave Eggers published “What is the What” through his own press, was that “vanity”? Or was it maybe more like the recognition that he’s the most established/famous name in his own outfit, and therefore he’s his own best shot at funding/profile-raising for the press itself. Joshua Beckman does a similar thing by publishing his books through Wave Books. Like so many other things in literature, it’s a “smell test” or “know it when I see it”-type standard. I think calling FC2 out for publishing people on their board or whatever is to do more than miss the point– it’s to intentionally reverse the point. it’s disingenuous.
Did anyone check their author page? It’s got about 100 people on i- from Mark Amerika to Diane Williams, with pitstops along the way like Lucy Corin and Leslie Scalapino. Did anyone check their Board of Directors page? It’s got ten people on it, including Lance Olsen and Noy Holland. Anyone want to challenge these guys’ authenticity/cred/whatever? If so, fyi: wear a metal colander on your head when they start shooting the mind-control rays at you; you’ll go through less tinfoil that way. And thanks for playing.
exactly. well said justin
exactly. well said justin
i also just noticed the tagline under the sheep photo
mad props ryan
i also just noticed the tagline under the sheep photo
mad props ryan
Exactly.
Exactly.
im giggling.
im giggling.
haha
haha
yeah the essay was published in both venues: P&E and ULA
yeah the essay was published in both venues: P&E and ULA
i think that the questioning, and self-scrutiny issued by barry, makes the press better. FC2 is held to high standards. That’s not a bad thing. And as long as people are throwing their name out there, positive or bad attention, they’ll stay relevant. FC2 has published some great books, but they’ve also published some sub-par ones. so what.
i think that the questioning, and self-scrutiny issued by barry, makes the press better. FC2 is held to high standards. That’s not a bad thing. And as long as people are throwing their name out there, positive or bad attention, they’ll stay relevant. FC2 has published some great books, but they’ve also published some sub-par ones. so what.
the article has the usual ULA tone of resentment, but honestly, the fiction collective started out as an awesome project, and has since been half awesome and half crap. there’s no denying that they’ve helped put out authors who deserve more attention, but there’s also no denying that they’ve helped advance the careers of hacks who are good at working the system in their own little ponds. i can’t think of very many presses who, accounting for scale, you couldn’t say the same thing about.
fc2 seems to go in cycles. they put out consistently excellent stuff in the early oughts. it’s been hit or miss for several years now.
but has anybody noticed what they’re charging for paperbacks these days? it’s getting a little out of hand.
the article has the usual ULA tone of resentment, but honestly, the fiction collective started out as an awesome project, and has since been half awesome and half crap. there’s no denying that they’ve helped put out authors who deserve more attention, but there’s also no denying that they’ve helped advance the careers of hacks who are good at working the system in their own little ponds. i can’t think of very many presses who, accounting for scale, you couldn’t say the same thing about.
fc2 seems to go in cycles. they put out consistently excellent stuff in the early oughts. it’s been hit or miss for several years now.
but has anybody noticed what they’re charging for paperbacks these days? it’s getting a little out of hand.
Nicely played, sir.
Nicely played, sir.
Yes.
Yes.
Unfair to Kinbote, of course — yes Mr. Brown has all of Kinbote’s mendacity, self-aggrandizement, and self-delusion, but he (Brown) sucks at making sentences and paragraphs. The weird scattershot crazy of the argument is probably closer in spirit to the schizo dude in Cottage Grove, MN, my hometown, who started posting huge placards on his front lawn explaining how Bill Clinton was fucking his (SD’s) estranged wife and now the CIA was persecuting him and his cable tv wasn’t coming through quite right anymore, he’s pretty sure, and Dilly Bars taste good, but you can’t trust them, you just can’t, man (on account of all the poison).
This sentence sucks on so many levels: “Making such an accusation is the first refuge of literary scoundrels, an inversion of Dr. Johnson’s formulation that patriotism is the last refuge of political scoundrels.” There’s the weird high-flown diction, then the fact that he’s so insecure about the literacy of his audience that he needs to remind us of the original quote, and also to name-check “Dr. Johnson” (a formulation no one should use who didn’t graduate from Oxford Balliol sometime prior to the Great War), and the overall sad, aggrieved, lonely, puffed-up dude thing, which is just depressing — though I guess my fascination/horror wrt Mr. Brown’s essay has something to do with the fact that I sorta relate to those emotions.
Unfair to Kinbote, of course — yes Mr. Brown has all of Kinbote’s mendacity, self-aggrandizement, and self-delusion, but he (Brown) sucks at making sentences and paragraphs. The weird scattershot crazy of the argument is probably closer in spirit to the schizo dude in Cottage Grove, MN, my hometown, who started posting huge placards on his front lawn explaining how Bill Clinton was fucking his (SD’s) estranged wife and now the CIA was persecuting him and his cable tv wasn’t coming through quite right anymore, he’s pretty sure, and Dilly Bars taste good, but you can’t trust them, you just can’t, man (on account of all the poison).
This sentence sucks on so many levels: “Making such an accusation is the first refuge of literary scoundrels, an inversion of Dr. Johnson’s formulation that patriotism is the last refuge of political scoundrels.” There’s the weird high-flown diction, then the fact that he’s so insecure about the literacy of his audience that he needs to remind us of the original quote, and also to name-check “Dr. Johnson” (a formulation no one should use who didn’t graduate from Oxford Balliol sometime prior to the Great War), and the overall sad, aggrieved, lonely, puffed-up dude thing, which is just depressing — though I guess my fascination/horror wrt Mr. Brown’s essay has something to do with the fact that I sorta relate to those emotions.
Also: “The book was ultimately rejected.” How many hopes, what drama, what visions of all-night FC2 editorial wrangles, are contained in that little adverb!
Also: “The book was ultimately rejected.” How many hopes, what drama, what visions of all-night FC2 editorial wrangles, are contained in that little adverb!
haha
haha
Everybody who commented here, and the author of the original article about FC2, and anyone connected with the ULA, is a moron of the first degree.
Since this comment doesn’t include itself, since it will not be a comment until I hit the ‘submit comment’ button, and then will refer only, since the verb is the past tense, to prior comments, I am exempt from my criticism.
Everybody who commented here, and the author of the original article about FC2, and anyone connected with the ULA, is a moron of the first degree.
Since this comment doesn’t include itself, since it will not be a comment until I hit the ‘submit comment’ button, and then will refer only, since the verb is the past tense, to prior comments, I am exempt from my criticism.
i would comment on your comment CCC but i’ve got to go rub one out because i am so wet right now
i would comment on your comment CCC but i’ve got to go rub one out because i am so wet right now