August 9th, 2010 / 5:14 pm
Snippets
Snippets
Alexis Orgera—
Are books of poetry getting longer? Are lit mags getting longer? I hate that.
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Meta
Why do you hate that? If I read a good book, I wish it would continue.
A lot of books (and, even more so, albums) are ruined by adding in weaker stories/poems/songs to what would otherwise be a super strong experience.
That said, i don’t know if books are getting longer? As for lit mags, there are a few like Unsaid or Conjunctions that can get quite big, but I think a large number of newer magazines are getting shorter though.
Also, Unsaid and Conjunctions rock so I’m cool with them being big.
Exactly, Lincoln. If they are good, why not more? Esp a lit mag. I mean the voices keep switching. You aren’t get tired of a voice. It changes, right?
BTW, I just received a MAR the size of late Oprah.
I guess I feel like with poetry, particularly, you don’t need 100 pages in a book. It takes away from the individual poems. Yes, I agree with Lincoln that many of the pieces feel like filler. Same with lit mags. How much quality is delivered in a 200 pager? Not much by my account.
I thought the argument on HTML last week was that things were too long.
Well, I will say that for whatever dumb reason I’d rather read two 200 page lit mags than 1 400 page one. I like to finish things I start, and huge lit mags can be intimidating and I rarely get through them….unless they are really awesome ones, of which there are certainly a few.
As opposed to the argument this week that they aren’t short enough?
that’s my argument now, isn’t it?
This is a new week, BC.
Welcome to the internet.
There is no fucking way 100 pp takes away from an individual poem. How?
OK, all you “I have read Infinite Jest” wearing badge members. Does its length take away from individual passages? I don’t know. Never got through it. But loved pages I did read, some.
I jest for Those Who read. The answer will be an overwhelming NO.
Long albums. Long sex. Long dance. Long travel. Long drugs.
There will be beautiful moments in all of these, not reduced by the length of the work entire.
I feel
(It is Monday–Why am I reading poetry and drinking rum and surfing?)
Lincoln, your invocation of albums make me wonder if you’re looking for a lit journal that feels more like a tight concept record than a long greatest hits comp. Is that accurate? If so, it sounds great! Although I don’t really like themed journals. I don’t know what I want here. Maybe a journal that has a certain sub period and then like clusters the good subs into three groups or something based on whatever unifying factor the editors prefer.
I’m not sure I would ever disregard a poetry collection due to its size. You are right that many collections are watered down with filler, but I believe this should reflect the judgment of the poet and publisher rather than the medium.
There are many poets who’s work I would be happy to get lost in for a few hundred pages.
That’s what collected works are for. There’s a simplicity and a beauty to the short (under 100 pages, even) book. There’s a definite arc to the sequencing, maybe even to the emotional narrative. There are repetitions and recursions that you can ingest in one sitting. Poetry is, for me, the briefest reprieve from the noise or the scream out of empty house. It’s fleeting. It’s momentary. It captures everything in a tiny box. I think the shorter collection is integral to the process of enjoying (believing in) poetry in the way I think it should be read. And yes, poet and publisher judgment matter, and maybe this is as much a commentary on the fact that I think there’s a lot of flawed decision making out there.
I have nothing against long literary mags. I like to read without ending.
So this week things are shorter than last week?
I would like to see books with less letter m’s.
No, no, they are longer. And the word longer has no m’s.
As for your personal quest, The Second Sex has few M’s as does The Dangerous Afternoon.
Not sure how anyone can generalize on this topic. (Pardon the generalization, please.) Some collections of poetry could stand to have their page counts reduced, otherwise are far too thin to justify being called a book at all, etc. “Just depends.”
Not sure if it’s something new either–might just be the journals being looked at right now? Unsaid is huge (and worth every page), Conjunctions too and that 40th Anniversary (I think it’s 40) Mid-American Review could hold a door open.
However, reading a bunch of old issues of The Quarterly lately and issue number 3, for instance, from Fall 1987 – just under 300 pages long, which seems like a lot. And it seems pretty typical for the first 6 issues, maybe even a tad shorter than the others.
What is so great about poetry is that the “briefest reprieve ” can happen regardless of the size of the collection. It’s all about how much you as a reader are willing to engage and explore. I often read a poem or two from a book, step away to digest, read something different, come back. I rarely read a collection from cover to cover, which is probably why I fail horribly at reading novels.
That’s not to say quality poetry books are given a free pass from standing on their own being read cover to cover — If a collection is 100 + pages or 10 pages and watered down, it’s still a shame.
Tim,
I’m definitely interested in the idea of magazines (and collections) that work like albums. A random cobbling of whatever came through the slush seems kind of boring to me at this point. I’d like to see more magazines try to tie their work together, either through a certain aesthetic, art work, theme or what have you.
We’ve definitely been trying to do that at Gigantic with our print issues through layout, art and content…. though how successful we have been I can’t say.
I feel like there are ways to make a journal stand out beyond themes though
whoops posted that by accident. but yes, I think things can be done with layout, art, overall concept and so on to unify issues beyond just themes.
I think poetry books should be under 100 pages. I think most publishers do too since most contests and open submissions ask for manuscripts between 48 and 80 pages. Also, don’t extra long poetry books (besides anthologies) somewhat defeat the purpose of reading poetry as opposed to straight fiction? Part of why I read and write poetry is because I expect it to be shorter.
I will say poetry books seem to cost a hell of a lot for how short they often are, even if i enjoy reading a tighter collection more than a big bulky one.
Only time I get mad at length is when a journal is (a) too short + (b) too mediocre and (c) too obviously stuffed with poor work from friends and students when (d) it’s so short and crappy to begin with.
a+b+c+d=F
It all depends on the quality of a book of poetry or magazine. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a really long book of poetry. WIth PANK, we run a 240 page issue because we print once a year and it’s more cost effective to do one big issue than two small issues. There’s lots of factors that go into the size of a literary magazine.
That said, I quite appreciate length, so long as the length is well handled.
Why do you hate that? If I read a good book, I wish it would continue.
A lot of books (and, even more so, albums) are ruined by adding in weaker stories/poems/songs to what would otherwise be a super strong experience.
That said, i don’t know if books are getting longer? As for lit mags, there are a few like Unsaid or Conjunctions that can get quite big, but I think a large number of newer magazines are getting shorter though.
Also, Unsaid and Conjunctions rock so I’m cool with them being big.
Exactly, Lincoln. If they are good, why not more? Esp a lit mag. I mean the voices keep switching. You aren’t get tired of a voice. It changes, right?
BTW, I just received a MAR the size of late Oprah.
I guess I feel like with poetry, particularly, you don’t need 100 pages in a book. It takes away from the individual poems. Yes, I agree with Lincoln that many of the pieces feel like filler. Same with lit mags. How much quality is delivered in a 200 pager? Not much by my account.
I thought the argument on HTML last week was that things were too long.
Well, I will say that for whatever dumb reason I’d rather read two 200 page lit mags than 1 400 page one. I like to finish things I start, and huge lit mags can be intimidating and I rarely get through them….unless they are really awesome ones, of which there are certainly a few.
As opposed to the argument this week that they aren’t short enough?
that’s my argument now, isn’t it?
This is a new week, BC.
Welcome to the internet.
There is no fucking way 100 pp takes away from an individual poem. How?
OK, all you “I have read Infinite Jest” wearing badge members. Does its length take away from individual passages? I don’t know. Never got through it. But loved pages I did read, some.
I jest for Those Who read. The answer will be an overwhelming NO.
Long albums. Long sex. Long dance. Long travel. Long drugs.
There will be beautiful moments in all of these, not reduced by the length of the work entire.
I feel
(It is Monday–Why am I reading poetry and drinking rum and surfing?)
length… appreciated… well-handled…
Lincoln, your invocation of albums make me wonder if you’re looking for a lit journal that feels more like a tight concept record than a long greatest hits comp. Is that accurate? If so, it sounds great! Although I don’t really like themed journals. I don’t know what I want here. Maybe a journal that has a certain sub period and then like clusters the good subs into three groups or something based on whatever unifying factor the editors prefer.
I’m not sure I would ever disregard a poetry collection due to its size. You are right that many collections are watered down with filler, but I believe this should reflect the judgment of the poet and publisher rather than the medium.
There are many poets who’s work I would be happy to get lost in for a few hundred pages.
That’s what collected works are for. There’s a simplicity and a beauty to the short (under 100 pages, even) book. There’s a definite arc to the sequencing, maybe even to the emotional narrative. There are repetitions and recursions that you can ingest in one sitting. Poetry is, for me, the briefest reprieve from the noise or the scream out of empty house. It’s fleeting. It’s momentary. It captures everything in a tiny box. I think the shorter collection is integral to the process of enjoying (believing in) poetry in the way I think it should be read. And yes, poet and publisher judgment matter, and maybe this is as much a commentary on the fact that I think there’s a lot of flawed decision making out there.
I have nothing against long literary mags. I like to read without ending.
So this week things are shorter than last week?
I would like to see books with less letter m’s.
No, no, they are longer. And the word longer has no m’s.
As for your personal quest, The Second Sex has few M’s as does The Dangerous Afternoon.
Not sure how anyone can generalize on this topic. (Pardon the generalization, please.) Some collections of poetry could stand to have their page counts reduced, otherwise are far too thin to justify being called a book at all, etc. “Just depends.”
Not sure if it’s something new either–might just be the journals being looked at right now? Unsaid is huge (and worth every page), Conjunctions too and that 40th Anniversary (I think it’s 40) Mid-American Review could hold a door open.
However, reading a bunch of old issues of The Quarterly lately and issue number 3, for instance, from Fall 1987 – just under 300 pages long, which seems like a lot. And it seems pretty typical for the first 6 issues, maybe even a tad shorter than the others.
What is so great about poetry is that the “briefest reprieve ” can happen regardless of the size of the collection. It’s all about how much you as a reader are willing to engage and explore. I often read a poem or two from a book, step away to digest, read something different, come back. I rarely read a collection from cover to cover, which is probably why I fail horribly at reading novels.
That’s not to say quality poetry books are given a free pass from standing on their own being read cover to cover — If a collection is 100 + pages or 10 pages and watered down, it’s still a shame.
Tim,
I’m definitely interested in the idea of magazines (and collections) that work like albums. A random cobbling of whatever came through the slush seems kind of boring to me at this point. I’d like to see more magazines try to tie their work together, either through a certain aesthetic, art work, theme or what have you.
We’ve definitely been trying to do that at Gigantic with our print issues through layout, art and content…. though how successful we have been I can’t say.
I feel like there are ways to make a journal stand out beyond themes though
whoops posted that by accident. but yes, I think things can be done with layout, art, overall concept and so on to unify issues beyond just themes.
I think poetry books should be under 100 pages. I think most publishers do too since most contests and open submissions ask for manuscripts between 48 and 80 pages. Also, don’t extra long poetry books (besides anthologies) somewhat defeat the purpose of reading poetry as opposed to straight fiction? Part of why I read and write poetry is because I expect it to be shorter.
I will say poetry books seem to cost a hell of a lot for how short they often are, even if i enjoy reading a tighter collection more than a big bulky one.
leave readers (or listeners or viewers) wanting more. there are few things worse than overstaying your welcome
responding on the wrong comment could be a thing that’s worse.
Only time I get mad at length is when a journal is (a) too short + (b) too mediocre and (c) too obviously stuffed with poor work from friends and students when (d) it’s so short and crappy to begin with.
a+b+c+d=F
It all depends on the quality of a book of poetry or magazine. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a really long book of poetry. WIth PANK, we run a 240 page issue because we print once a year and it’s more cost effective to do one big issue than two small issues. There’s lots of factors that go into the size of a literary magazine.
That said, I quite appreciate length, so long as the length is well handled.
length… appreciated… well-handled…
leave readers (or listeners or viewers) wanting more. there are few things worse than overstaying your welcome
responding on the wrong comment could be a thing that’s worse.
this is true
i think of lit mags like encyclopedias, or almanacs. i don’t try to read it cover to cover, but dip into it little by little every now and then.
three different posts by three different contributors.
this is true
i think of lit mags like encyclopedias, or almanacs. i don’t try to read it cover to cover, but dip into it little by little every now and then.
three different posts by three different contributors.
“I don’t think I’ve ever seen a really long book of poetry.”
Check out Frank Stanford’s THE BATTLEFIELD WHERE THE MOON SAYS I LOVE YOU.
“I don’t think I’ve ever seen a really long book of poetry.”
Check out Frank Stanford’s THE BATTLEFIELD WHERE THE MOON SAYS I LOVE YOU.
It told me it hates you as well.
leave readers feeling like they are totally used up and can no longer function because of what you have done to them.
It told me it hates you as well.
leave readers feeling like they are totally used up and can no longer function because of what you have done to them.
YAHTZEE!
YAHTZEE!