September 4th, 2011 / 12:08 am

And this is what we call fishing for outrage. Anyways, off to go read American Psycho again.


  1. M. Kitchell

      bret easton ellis’s twitter is one of the dumbest things on the internet, and that takes some real fucking effort

  2. Roxane

      Yeah, I saw this earlier and thought it was just…silly. Plus, the thought isn’t even original. I can’t remember where I read it but someone recently wrote an article about the way the rape in both the original and remake is eroticized in different ways. He’s not really being edgy or groundbreaking so it becomes sad.

  3. Nick Antosca

      I follow it.  It’s always entertaining.  I enjoy his “calm asshole” persona.

  4. Ryan Sanford Smith

      Nothing says ‘this is silly and not worth talking about’ like posting it for discussion.

  5. deadgod

      Not as outrageous as making Susan George read “the original” American Psycho.

  6. tao

      can you elaborate on how him stating a feeling he felt as a young boy is a ‘thought’ and on how it’s ‘sad’

  7. Roxane

      No, I can’t.

  8. Dan Moore

      I can’t speak for Roxane but-
      There’s a thought that led him to state that feeling in that particular way to that audience; that thought is sad if you imagine it’s coming from a desire to shock or provoke, because it’s not especially shocking or provoking and it’s coming from a man who was once far more effortlessly shocking and provoking. 

  9. Dan Moore

      I can’t speak for Roxane but-
      There’s a thought that led him to state that feeling in that particular way to that audience; that thought is sad if you imagine it’s coming from a desire to shock or provoke, because it’s not especially shocking or provoking and it’s coming from a man who was once far more effortlessly shocking and provoking. 

  10. Char


  11. Guest

      fuck, are you stupid

  12. Sarasoo

      Tao. Kate Durbin wants your panties.

  13. Guestagain

      Further to you point, sexual violence is almost always eroticized by Hollywood, otherwise only rapists would be aroused, and that doesn’t fill seats. See Gran Torino for a realistic treatment, and the act  isn’t even shown. Sadder yet is Hollywood remaking Straw Dogs, remaking everything, so risk averse and out of ideas.

  14. Cvan

      Oh, thanks for clarifying.  I thought it was a synopsis of Tao Lin Franco’s new book.

  15. Cvan

      Continuing to not speak for Roxane, I assume when she says “sad” she’s meaning in the sense of “pathetic” which speaks for itself. 

  16. a sex-positive feminist

      The things that arouse us are often silly, but I think it’s passing an awful lot of unproductive judgment to call them sad. Rape fantasies abound. And they are often just that: fantasies. When you conflate them with actual rape, that’s a big fucking projection. 

  17. Brendan

      That is bullshit. Rape and sex are not the same thing.

  18. Brendan

      I’ll also say that being female and a feminist is not the same thing.

  19. bobby

      I am not going to speak for Ms. Roxane, but picture a young boy watching Straw Dogs w/ Dustin Hoffman. How can that not be sad? 

  20. deadgod

      An “erotic thing” might be too cognitively direct and undifferentiated to call a thought, but when that “erotic thing” is present to the mind – even of the person to whom it ‘happened’ – , then it’s being thought, no?

      –and when an “erotic thing” is reported, the calculation that goes into that telling entails a kind – or several – of thinking.

      Not sure which “it” is “sad”, but it seems to me that what’s being called “sad” here is ‘this particular act of exposing a taste (at least in childhood) for (at least watching) sexual violence’.  What’s “sad” about this particular exposure is that it doesn’t seem connected to anything other than a largely frustrated desire to titillate–distressing in a small way; in a word:  sad.

      (To me, not “sad”, exactly.  You know the story of Ikey Mopes in Faulkner’s The Hamlet?  Ellis, a lousy writer, is the cousin charging a quarter to watch Ikey through a knothole in the fence:  detestable, but comical from a distance–say, that of a capable pen.)

  21. a sex-positive feminist

      Never said they were, asshole. 

  22. a sex-positive feminist

      see above.

  23. Brendan

      By calling yourself “sex-positive” and then, apparently, saying that these stupid rape fantasies are somehow cool or okay, you give that impression. Gotta love your idea of “feminism”.

  24. Cvan

      The difference, and perhaps this is also passing judgment, is between actual fantasies and pathetically trying to elicit outrage.  You say he’s authentic and others say he’s merely an inept button-pusher.

  25. M. Kitchell

      i don’t think the point made by anyone is that rape fantasies are “sad,” i think the point is that B.E.E.’s twitter presence is basically a continual attempt to shock, so his recent tactic to approach being shocking by describing the erotics of samuel fuller’s “visionary” rape-scene is what is sad, as roxane says, it’s old hat.

  26. M. Kitchell

      whoops, didn’t see this comment before i left mine

  27. BoomersMustDie

      Who is fishing for outrage? You mean HTMLGiant or you mean B.E.E.?

  28. Cvan

      To add to that…it’s a struggle for relevance, except he’s already slid down the slippery slope of shock.  Now, he’s trying to slither back up the slope.  It’s like ParisKardashianBritneyLohan showing off skin.  By this point, everyone says, “Yes, we’ve seen your ___ 100 times already, just keep your clothes on.”  I wonder what’s next for the Killer BEE…calling vegan food poison or saying that hurricanes nicely rid us of the weak?

  29. deadgod

      If you picked up “sad” from Roxane’s comment, I don’t think she’s calling “rape fantasies” or even Ellis’s childhood arousal at rape depiction – not to be “conflated with” either “rape fantasy” or “actual rape” – “sad”.  She’s saying that his attempt to be “edgy or groundbreaking” becomes “sad”–the pathos maybe characterizing compassion for a weak writer failing worse.

      To me, “sad” is a continuum between, say, being spurned for a date and Lear’s

      Pray you, undo this button:  thank you, sir.

      Ellis elbowing you to look at him fondling his earlobe?  Oh brother.

  30. Nick Antosca

      Also, my post is fond, not disdainful.

  31. elizabeth ellen

      off to watch “straw dogs” 

  32. Roxane

      No one is conflating fantasies with rape here but you. 

  33. Roxane

      I was, indeed, referring to the comment, the attempt, the fact that the statement was made on Twitter, that it has been said before, and recently, with more substance, etc. I could care less about his fantasies. We all have them.

  34. Roxane

      This is true. I’ve written about this very subject. Gran Torino actually handled the subject very, very well. It was horrifying and uncomfortable which is as it should be.

  35. Roxane


  36. Roxane


  37. Roxane

      Indeed it is. And I love Straw Dogs. I will be heading to the theater immediately after my last class on opening day. One of my friends who hates scary movies expects a full report. Also, the hot guy from True Blood is in it which is where a lot of the current conversation about the erotics of rape in film is centered. Some say they should have cast an ugly mofo in the role.

  38. alan

      I agree. I wish people would stop trying to police their own and anyone else’s imaginations. Nothing real can possibly be at stake there.

  39. Anonymous

      You’re confused, alan.  This isn’t (mostly) indignation of imagination, but annoyance at someone trying to shock in such a patently hamfisted obvious way.  It’s on the level of one who also comes from a well-to-do background, but ultimately is trying to provoke with exploits of shoplifting.  No one says, “How dare you steal from American Apparel.”  They say, “The gimmick is tired.”

  40. Brooks Sterritt

      Ya’ll got it all wrong: B.E.E. was being genuine!

  41. deadgod

      Who is “ya’ll”?  I mean, who on this thread is calling Sweetums a poser?  I don’t think anybody’s doubting his boner; the veracity of his recollection isn’t being questioned, is it?

      There’re lots of “genuine” things any person could root up out of their brains.  Why do you think Ellis is entering the new-all-over-again discussion of violence-made-attractive in this way?  Do you think there’s something clever or artful about his lil tweet?

  42. Brooks Sterritt

      I was sort of half-joking, so about 3/8. But it seems to me that “Sweetums” made a pretty straightforward statement, after which everyone tried to attribute meaning to it, based on his tweet history. I don’t think he is trying to be clever or artful, yet succeeds in doing so.

  43. deadgod

      Well, the meaning I get from the tweet isn’t in disregard to its straightforwardness.  What interests you about Ellis’s remark?  –I mean, what effect does he achieve in a way you find clever or artful?

  44. Nick Antosca

      I think that’s right, that and fishing for outrage aren’t mutually exclusive, in fact they may often go hand in hand

  45. Brooks Sterritt

      Humor, truth.

  46. Brooks Sterritt

      I can get down with this

  47. dole

      lol BEI RT:

      In the desert; remembered a NY night years ago doing a ton of blow with Jonathan Ames and Jonathan Lethem and talking about bisexuality…

      Real Talk Bro!