January 30th, 2014 / 8:51 pm
Author News

A Controversial Fundraiser

There is a fundraiser to help Gregory Sherl fight his OCD by contributing towards the costs of an inpatient treatment program.

There is also a statement from Kat Dixon in which she accuses Sherl of “constant physical, emotional, and sexual abuse.”

Andrew Keating, publisher of Cobalt Press, wrote the following on Facebook  a little earlier this evening:

When I first saw Gregory Sherl’s bullshit fundraiser, I was conflicted. I want the dude to get help, but I also think that he should be forced into hardship for the terrible things he’s done to people. Recovery from the type of behavior that Sherl has been accustomed to getting away with should not be easy, and he should not be permitted to exploit our good nature, especially when it is good-natured people that he has so terribly exploited and abused in the past.

Yes, I am aware that this fundraiser is tied to an affliction that he is categorizing as OCD; however, I’m not about to assume that a man beating on his wife because she couldn’t get a stain out of his shirt is a simple matter of an obsessive need for cleanliness.

Thanks to Kat Dixon for so plainly reminding us that we should not be supporting those who abuse or take advantage of women.

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166 Comments

  1. disqus_B62jJEdlXn

      hell of an accusation.

  2. Andrew Keating

      It is. However, I think it should be noted that the “accusation” does not come from a single source. I only mentioned Kat because she was brave enough to speak up in this case, but she was not Sherl’s only victim, nor was she the last.

  3. disqus_MfjCvjBlcJ

      When were they ever married? This is just outrageous and irresponsible to post such serious content! And to not get any information or comment from the other half of this equation?

  4. Guest

      Is marriage a requirement for the abuse to be taken seriously?

  5. disqus_MfjCvjBlcJ

      Of course not. But the blurb up there discusses a man beating his wife. So if that is a false statement, how do I know the rest of it isn’t false as well? I also saw on Twitter that “no other victims” have come forward but that Kat knows there are others. I’m just confused on the validity of all of this. Has anyone reached out to Greg’s girlfriend and the person who founded his campaign to treat his OCD and BPD? I’m interested in her comments to all of this as well.

  6. luisalcorrea

      Isn’t it possible for OCD, BPD, and narcissistic personality disorder to lead to abusive behavior? I don’t want to get into a situation where we’re denying the validity of either the accusation of abuse or Sherl’s psychiatric disorders. But, why deny the man some charity? I just hope they get the help they both need.

  7. Andrew Keating

      The “man beating on his wife” statement was an illustrative example, not an example of something that Sherl did. I just wanted to make sure that was clear.

      Also, I knew of this from another victim before I knew Kat. I’m proud of her for saying something, because it’s an incredibly difficult thing to confess. What’s worse is that Kat and other victims are subjected to criticism of this nature any time they do try to reveal what has happened to them, regardless of who the abuser is. We should be encouraging people to step forward and making sure they have nothing to be afraid of when they do.

  8. disqus_MfjCvjBlcJ

      So the public is supposed to just “know” that you were not implying that the victim was not beat by the accused for not getting a stain out of his shirt? Maybe you should have used a real scenario– bc guess what? There are now people who believe that the accused did that specific thing to the victim. When dealing with such serious material, we should be responsible in how we present it.

  9. Andrew Keating

      This is something I definitely agree with. I want Sherl to get help, and I’m not denying that he has OCD or any other disorder. But if that’s the case, then why isn’t that part of the reasoning for his wanting the charity? Why isn’t he speaking up and say “I’ve done some horrible things as a result of my disorder(s).” If I only had the fundraiser description to rely on, I’d think that Sherl’s only victim is/was himself, and that’s unfair to the people that he *has* victimized. Where’s their charity? He wants $10K to get himself straight, but I’d much rather see $10K go to helping get his victims straight first.

  10. disqus_MfjCvjBlcJ

      From the fundraiser: “Not surprisingly, many people who have OCD also suffer from depression, and Greg is no exception. In addition, he’s been diagnosed with a form of bipolar disorder, as well as borderline personality disorder, both of which are not uncommon among people living with OCD. Many mental illnesses do not exist independently, which makes treatment complicated: one form of psychiatric medication could help with depression, but it might make the bipolar worse. A mood stabilizer might help with the bipolar, but it won’t do anything for the anxiety, and so on and so on. In short, there is no single medication or form of treatment that can do all the work.”

  11. Andrew Keating

      You know, the comments I made were on Facebook. If you want to tease them out and nit-pick, you’re welcome to spend your time doing so, but I’m not going to lose any sleep because somebody who seems intent on siding an abuser wants to trip up my phrasing. I stand by the people I know who have been abused by him. I support them fully, and that was my only intent in making the post that Rauan was quoting above.

  12. disqus_MfjCvjBlcJ

      I’m just on the side of truth. I’m not trying to credit the accused ir discredit the victim. I stand by my view that it was irresponsible for this to be posted – especially when your quoted Facebook status isn’t even using a scenario that actually transpired between the two of them. Every person involved in this is, at the center of it all, a real living and breathing person– and anything like this should be handled with care. This has been presented so haphazardly, it disgusts me.

  13. disqus_MfjCvjBlcJ

      FTFY; they were never married but at some point lived together. During that he abused the former girlfriend but did not beat her bc she was unable to remove a stain from.his shirt. His current girlfriend started a fundraiser to treat his illness but this may not have been the right thing to do because some people feel.he should remain sick. Is that about right?

  14. Donora Hillard

      No.

  15. Daniel Bailey

      i don’t know anything about this situation, but the fact that you’re enthusiastically and prolifically commenting on this anonymously is creepy as hell. please stop.

  16. Andrew Keating

      I think it’s good that Disqus lets people contribute anonymously, in the event that they are worried about some kind of retribution for where they fall on a controversial topic, but you make a good point, Daniel. After a certain number of anonymous posts from the same author, it’s hard not to wonder.

  17. BrianAllenCarr

      Some of the points they’re making are valid.

  18. disqus_MfjCvjBlcJ

      I made the account after I saw this on Twitter. I’ve responded to comments directed at me, and posted my own. Damn straight I’m not going to use my name, I have no connection to either the accuser or the accused- but I follow htmlgiant on twitter just like thousands of other people. I’m trying to get my facts straight and don’t want my name to be a part of the mudslinging. If that makes me a creep, I will proudly wear that badge!

  19. Michael Schmeltzer

      If readers are coming to this situation as complete strangers and immediately start questioning the validity of Kat Dixon’s and Andrew Keating’s claims, I hope they take the time to ask themselves why they are defaulting against potential victim(s) and not with them.

  20. Kat Dixon

      If I receive permission, I will happily forward on testimonies I have received from some of Sherl’s other victims. However, I am not in the business of outing victims of violence, nor am I in the business of engaging with anyone who would support an abuser.

  21. Crowdfunding VS Charity – where do we draw the line? | Kia Groom

      […] I read this, and the statements of Kat Dixon, and I realized: it is okay for me to feel angry about this shit […]

  22. Kat Dixon

      Kia Groom has also produced a lengthy statement re: her relationship with Sherl. For those of you demanding “proof” of my statement’s “truth.”
      http://kiagroom.com/?p=136

  23. Michael Schmeltzer

      I think many people want to see Sherl receive treatment for his illness(es). But receiving treatment is not always synonymous with receiving compassion. The anonymous commenter’s dismissive tone regarding the victim and the abuse is rather appalling. Again, I don’t understand why people who have no personal ties end up questioning the victim in situations like this.

  24. Donora Hillard

      As Kat’s friend, I will not belabor the point regarding what occurred between her and Greg. I will say, though (after remaining silent for too long), that I have experienced similar abuse.

      Greg should not remain sick, and it is absurd to attest that anyone is claiming otherwise. He needs to be isolated from society until he is no longer dangerous to others; however, varying degrees of comorbidity notwithstanding, his OCD is not the primary issue at hand. I believe an additional degree of transparency is needed, including where this campaign is concerned. This undertaking can be difficult when someone is seen as a sensitive soul, a victim, even a worshiper of women in his writing. In short, buyer beware.

      Finally, please refrain from criticizing Keating for his use of a hypothetical in this post; if it helps you, being beaten until the point of miscarriage is a thing that happens to women as well.

  25. Donora Hillard

      “He completely demoralized me, ground me down, and submitted me to what I can only describe as severe psychological torture. The specifics are not important, in my view, but I felt it was important to add my voice to Kat Dixon’s. If Gregory Sherl could make me attempt to slit my wrists in a bath tub from thousands of miles away, I can only imagine what he would have been like to live with.”

  26. disqus_MfjCvjBlcJ

      That was very well written, and I appreciated such honesty. Thank you for that.

  27. joseph

      There isn’t a person here couldn’t use some assistance in paying med bills which is probably why most of us do not pay them at all. I suggest Greg gets some treatment if he needs or wants it, then throws the bills away when they arrive.

  28. disqus_MfjCvjBlcJ

      I wasn’t trying to be dismissive or any other flashy words that are being thrown around here. I know people are victimized and abused. I know people have been beaten to the point of miscarriage. I was merely pointing out that I legitimately felt that Gregory Sherl beat his ex girlfriend bc of a stain.

      If people come on here (like me) and do not personally know anyone involved, but they see things that aren’t true (ie- marriage, a hypothetical situation) it makes them question all of it. I stand by my words that if this is going to be published all over social media and closely followed sites like htmlgiant- language and what is posted should be handled with care.

      That being said, no person should ever abuse another- and it is all very sad.

  29. danielromo

      We all could use $ to help ourselves, but in the words of a good friend regarding the “fundraiser” before any of this, “Like fuck bro, I got a lot of shit goin on too, but handle your shit.”

  30. kurt1ss

      As the now-fiancé of a woman who was abused by Gregory Sherl, I’ve heard a number of truly disgusting things with regard to his conduct. It’s not my position to say how his victims should react as they try to heal and move on, but I think Greg should be taken off the streets. I don’t think another person deserves to go through what my fiancée (and, apparently, several others) went through. Because I’m not a lawyer, I don’t know if there is legal recourse here, but I highly recommend those who were abused to come together and litigate, or at least determine if this is a possibility.

      Would it be nice for Greg to get healthy, whatever that means? Sure, but first we should do our best to keep him from continuing to victimize those around him. Jail, psychiatric ward, house arrest, an entry in the sex offender registry – anything is better than allowing him to continue unimpeded.

  31. Dena Rash Guzman

      There are no flashy words here. Some of us know these people. Know of them and have read their work. Published them. This is heartbreaking to read. I agree this was not well-reported but am with others in thinking your tone combined with your anonymity is, for lack of a flashier word, creepy. This is serious. It is so serious that reading it made me cry. Your tone is super Loki. Please chill.

  32. jereme_dean

      God damn right OCD isn’t the issue.

  33. jereme_dean

      Uhm, if OCD, BPD, Narcissistic Personality Disorder lead to abuse then everyone afflicted with those ‘diseases’ would be abusive, righhhht?

      We already know that absolute isn’t true.

      It’s the same shit when assholes blame drugs for shitty behavior. I’ve done more opiates than anyone i’ve known and haven’t ever done anything shitty to another human being.

      It ain’t the drugs. It ain’t the illness. It’s the human being.

  34. jereme_dean

      I can see your viewpoint except Rauan’s posting is obviously designed for the reader to make their own decision. In other words, a gateway to discussion.

      Which is what happened.

      Nothing unethical occurred on his/HTMLG’s part. Maybe re-read the post and pay attention this time.

  35. jereme_dean

      Think it’s funny how certain people are labeled a ‘misogynist’ for writing about a woman’s body while someone who’s actually abusive towards women receives less outrage.

      Something to think about, I guess.

      Anyways…

      I have this really small list. I’m not going to say the name of the list. It’s just a list.

      Greg is one of the people on it.

      I really hope we meet someday.

      To talk about why he’s on the list.

  36. Andrew Keating

      High-fives.

  37. deadgod
  38. Kia

      I don’t think anyone is objecting to answering reasonable questions. But in fairness, I don’t see any malice in Kat Dixon’s original post, nor in any of the follow up comments. Anger, yes. Hurt, yes. Trauma, definitely. But not malice. A malicious post would have come much sooner after the dissolution of the relationship, I would think. As it is, it seems like women are coming forward who have had plenty of time to cool down from their interactions with Sherl. Momentary annoyance, bitterness, sadness and hurt feelings dissolve fairly rapidly after a break up. Legitimate trauma and psychological issues caused by an abusive, unhealthy relationship are want to linger long, long after you’d just rather that person was 100% out of your life.

  39. Dena Rash Guzman

      Am I outraged by this? Fuck yes I am. Does that help? Thanks.

  40. Dena Rash Guzman

      JD, dismissing past concerns of others with flippant quotation marks, and questioning where women are this one time you seem to take interest in the pain of a woman isn’t the sign of an ally. I have a strong feeling that, based on how you’ve expressed yourself in the past here, you’d be standing contrary to this issue if you didn’t have a confessed personal issue with Sherl. I am just not impressed. I stand with Kat and others, but not next to you. I will leave it to Andrew Keating to high-five you.

  41. Dena Rash Guzman

      Fuck! I just cannot think of a worse fucking place to see this discussion had than here. Moving on. This is like talking about a feminism in a boys high school locker room minutes after the football team takes state.

  42. Lisa Marie Basile

      Oh, I get it. Now we’re splitting hairs. So dumb.

  43. Lisa Marie Basile

      Irresponsible, half-assed or lazy posting aside, the fact was that it was an illustrative anecdote (these situations are delicate but this is literary community reportage and not everyone is a trained journalist–not excusing the confusion) but man, anyone who default-questions / victim-nitpicks to this extent either a) is missing the bigger picture, b) is just a little bit shitty or b) might be someone who knows too much/is associated with said shittiness, using a purposefully anonymous disqus handle

  44. Kat Dixon

      Dena, thank you endlessly for your support. I hope you will continue to discuss similar issues elsewhere. Men like Gregory Sherl need to be identified publicly so that they no longer feel justified to commit crimes against women.

  45. Lisa Marie Basile

      Meh. This post was lazy and inconsiderate. It’s like throwing meat to the sharks, when there are real people involved.

  46. Lisa Marie Basile

      Can outrage be measured? Are you at home with the victims? Are you a victim? Do we all need to be jerking each other over at the cool-kids HTML hangout in order to show this “outrage” you claim is missing….in comparison to that of a “misogynist.” Dopey as fuck.

  47. Rauan Klassnik

      i disagree, Lisa Marie. I do not think my post was “lazy and inconsiderate.” And I am certainly aware that real people are involved.

      you seem, though, to be really trigger-happy– and
      HTMLGIANT is an easy target now.

  48. Dena Rash Guzman

      Much love and support. This comment field is probably going to get ugly (it’s already hard to look at) and I am leaving it, but I hope the best for you. All the best, ever.

  49. Dena Rash Guzman

      criticizing htmlgiant is about as easy as a nuclear war, Klassnik.

  50. mimi
  51. Mark Cugini

      What Rauan said. I don’t know who I align with (as I don’t know Gregory or Kat and Kia personally), but I felt uncomfortable enough about the situation to ask for my donation back. And I’m happy that Kat and Kia and Andrew and Rauan raised my attention to this.

      But you hate us. Thanks. We get it.

  52. Dena Rash Guzman

      with apologies to Simon LeBon

  53. Lisa Marie Basile

      Maybe I am trigger happy. Acceptable assertion.

      It just needed a little more filling-out.

  54. Lisa Marie Basile

      I don’t ‘hate’ anyone. I don’t hate HTML. I think there are big problems with it, though.

      I too am happy this situation is being addressed. We are accountable for something bigger in this lit community, but I’m not entirely sure how to go about it all. I see plenty of questionable motives and issues in situations where people are publicly discussed.

      No “hatred,” but I don’t think the original post was done well. I think its motives were good, of course, but I think the issue is bigger than presenting “here’s his fundraiser” and “here is the issue” — without looking at it a little more closely. Yes, it positioned itself to open doors for dialogue, but it felt careless.

      I don’t want to split hairs, though. I just think everything here has an air of insincerity that it’s almost a joke when we see Real Issues even brought up here.

      Unfortunately, that’s due to the stupid comments that always follow posts and some of the garbage that has come through by posting permissions.

  55. rawbbie

      felt the same way when Dean Young was asking for money for a new heart.

  56. Amy McDaniel

      Rauan first sent a message to me after he saw my post on Facebook about this, asking if I’d thought about posting on HTMLGiant about it because he found it alarming. I was out to dinner and was slow to respond, so he went ahead and posted with the information he had since it was definitely a time-sensitive thing. I’m so glad he did, and I honestly can’t think of a better place for this discussion to happen — it is a forum that a lot of people pay attention to, especially people who were likely to contribute to Sherl’s fundraiser. We have an active community of commenters and a history of vigorous debate about serious issues. As I’m also a contributor here, I’ve also been able to put up posts very quickly that were designed to combat misogyny when time was an issue. So, I’d also like to thank Blake and Gene for creating this forum. I don’t know what part this post played in getting Sherl’s fundraiser de-activated, and I don’t know if that means donations were returned to everyone who gave, but it certainly couldn’t have hurt. So amazing of people abused by Sherl to speak up: it sends a big message. Thank you.

  57. Amy McDaniel

      See my post above for why this went up so quickly.

  58. deadgod

      “We” absolutely should be encouraging victims of violence to step forward and making sure they have nothing to be afraid of when they do.

      But, in order to marshall emotion, you misrepresented the issue, and now, while you backtrack with “illustrative example”, you say “I knew of this from another victim” – knew of what? “beating”??

      It is not “nit-picking” to question your turn to explosive language to win some emotional contest.

      (By the way, you don’t need to add the flimsiness of “get[ting] a stain out” for theatrical emphasis; there’s no mitigation–or there shouldn’t be–for “beating” a partner.)

      I don’t know any of the principals (or any other commenters) in this thing, and I think that, in manipulating the emotions of readers like me, you’re cheating.

  59. Dena Rash Guzman

      Don’t hate you at all.

  60. reynard seifert

      facebook as enabler and foil, interesting… while i’m glad this guy was stopped, this is one big reason i hate facebook: without it, this dude would just be a panhandler. i spy a grim present where writers use social media to build sympathy for copperfieldish characters so they can hustle audiences with bogus fundraisers

  61. Andrew Keating

      Deadgod: It seems, more than anything, that you are assuming that I had an intent to mislead. The exact moment that I learned that my phrasing had the possibility of being misleading, I attempted to clarify. I’ve apologized for any confusion. I’m not really sure why you’re so focused on the phrasing, rather than the real and serious problem at hand.

  62. Ben Spivey

      The fundraiser site isn’t down but with 12 hours to go and this info it won’t get funded.

  63. Andrew Keating

      Rauan: I think, to some extent, that I’m the one being accused of being “lazy and inconsiderate.” I’m okay with that, to be honest, because, as Lisa Marie points out in a later comment, I’m not a trained journalist. This is not a medium that I typically write for, and I had no reasonable expectation that my post on Facebook would be put to this level of scrutiny. I apologize now, as I have before, for using an example not specific to Sherl or Kat or Kia or anyone else to illustrate my anger over the crowd-funding that Sherl was/is looking for.

  64. Andrew Keating

      I readily high-five anybody who is willing to discuss this intellectually. A high-five to you, as well, DRG, if you’d like it.

  65. deadgod

      You presented Sherl’s “fundraiser” in one sentence, with a link, and Dixon’s “statement”–including her quoted accusation–in one sentence, with a link. You then quoted Keating fairly extensively in support of Dixon.

      In doing this, you leave it for your (not-personally-involved and distant) readers to go to the links (and whatever else they’d like to look up on the internet) and make their own minds up – to the extent that someone not personally involved can.

      Your post is, to me, the opposite of “lazy and inconsiderate”.

      You’re being blamed for not imposing a position as convinced as your blamer’s is. That accusation, to me, is ‘insincere’ and “half-assed”.

  66. Andrew Keating

      Thank you, Amy!

  67. Amy McDaniel

      Oh temporarily it seemed to be. But is it like Kickstarter where you have to make your whole goal? With some of these, you get whatever is pledged even if not.

  68. Andrew Keating

      It will get funded with anything it raises. Unlike Kickstarter, they give all pledges, regardless of whether it is fully funded.

  69. deadgod

      Well, I don’t think I’m assuming anything. I thought, in reading your quotation in the blogicle, that you were calling Sherl a ‘wife-beater’ – unqualifiedly, a Bad Thing – , and if that’s what people here using the word “abuse” mean, great! Name and shame.

      But, as you say, domestic violence is “real and serious” – I’d say, as serious as problems on an individual scale get. It’s because I take it seriously that I want this ugly, dangerous shit to be handled clearly.

  70. reynard seifert

      facebook as enabler and foil, interesting… if what’s being said is true, i suppose i’m glad this guy might be stopped. but in general, this is one big reason i hate facebook: without it, he’d just be a panhandler. i spy a grim present where writers use social media to build sympathy for copperfieldish characters so they can hustle audiences with bogus fundraisers

      that being said, anyone’s mental state is complicated and probably should not be reduced to the sort of terms being thrown around here. not that i think nothing should have been done, but i hope this (apparent) farce doesn’t end in tragedy, like the recent dr. v controversy

  71. Mark Cugini

      Word. Looking back at deadgod/Andrew’s discussion, I see where you’re coming from re: the initial post being lazy. I wholeheartedly disagree (and am mildly offended) with your blanket statement about “everything here [having] an air of insincerity,” but I can at least understand your concerns with the initial post. Apologies for that.

  72. davidpeak

      I forwarded this post to Jezebel. Hopefully they’ll respond. I think it’s important enough for this conversation to go beyond the echo chamber.

  73. mimi

      regardless of your intent, i too was mislead

  74. deadgod

      Dena, have a second look at the very thread this assertion is on. Nobody is supporting Sherl, and nobody is supporting domestic violence (or any kind of “abuse” in an intimate relationship).

      This happens all the time when misogyny gets accused of HTMLG: a thread with a dozen denunciations for each ‘wait a minute…’.

      It’s easy to criticize HTMLG in the harshest terms… right here! on one of its threads. (It’s even easier at a site that deletes and bans the kind of qualifying argument I’m making right now.) I’ve been misunderstood–in my view, uncomprehendingly–for saying so, but I think that that openness is valuable.

  75. reynard seifert

      i spy a grim present where writers use social media to build sympathy for their own copperfieldish characters so they can hustle audiences with fundraisers

      i just hope this (apparent) farce doesn’t end in tragedy, like the recent dr. v controversy — not everything is about picking sides, thankfully life is a lot more complicated than that

  76. jereme_dean

      Lady, if you think the sad sack of shit teacher’s lounge is where the cool kid’s hang out then you live in a pathetic world.

      Outrage is measured in collective response.

      Am I victim of sherl or just a victim?

      I have had intimate conversations with one of Sherl’s victims and have spoke out about the dude for a long time now. Someone else finally did. I’m glad.

      Still dosn’t change the fact that the only time certain feminists make a big deal about something is when they are personally slighted. Which was my point. “Something to think about.”

  77. Dena Rash Guzman

      hi deadgod. I don’t see outright support for Sherl. I didn’t mean to imply I did. How our community handles it forward is important. At this point, I stand with Kat and the women and men hurt now, and that’s all.

  78. jereme_dean

      I don’t give a fuck where you stand. I don’t need the support of others to feel strong. I’m me. I’m Jereme Dean. I do my own shit.

      If you think i’m simply a contrarian then we’re on some different levels, yo. LIke, you’re playing hopscotch and i’m up here playing marbles with the planets.

      I can see how someone might think I just argue for the sake of arguing. I mean, I can if they aren’t paying much attention to who/what I am. It’s cool. Either way.

      My only personal issue with Sherl is what he’s done to somebody I know, a woman who lived with him.

  79. Ben Spivey

      That’s gross.

  80. Citric

      greg sherl beta as hell w/ this fundraiser…

  81. Andrew Sargus Klein

      still doesn’t change the fact that you’re using this issue as a means to re-litigate your own arguments from the past, which is super petty and beside the point

  82. jereme_dean

      Which argument is that?

  83. Ben Spivey

      Hope it gets picked up.

  84. Citric

      hey greg sherl how bout you take your shit elsewhere & quit bothering us right? we’re not giving you any money alright??? get out of our face w/ this shit you beta-ass chump no one cares about your OCD ya got me?? you ain’t gettin dime one from me how bout you get a job & pay for it yourself like the rest of us working stiffs..

  85. Andrew Sargus Klein

      Apologies, that was unclear wording on my end. What I take issue with is this: on a post about domestic abuse, you lead with:

      “Think it’s funny how certain people are labeled a ‘misogynist’ for writing about a woman’s body while someone who’s actually abusive towards women receives less outrage.”

      And then follow up with:

      “Still dosn’t change the fact that the only time certain feminists make a big deal about something is when they are personally slighted. Which was my point. ‘Something to think about.’ ”

      Whatever issues you’ve had in the past over who calls who a misogynist for whatever reason (because clearly you do have issues with this, though I don’t know what specifically), this isn’t the place to talk about that in a productive way. It’s utterly beside the point, here; it’s distracting and needlessly antagonizing. You’re simply turning the core issue here—domestic abuse—and making it personal, in some way, and in doing so dilute the fact that you clearly think this Sherl guy is an asshole and that you are glad people are calling him out.

  86. jereme_dean

      I can see why you’d think that. My intention wasn’t to change a core issue personal.

      My intention was, after reading/replying to existing comments, to garner support against sherl through antagonizing ‘feminists’. Like, i’ve seen some serious shit shows on htmlg by the feminist public over written words. Here’s a dude who takes actual action against women. Like, not one, several.

      The reaction towards Sherl should be exponential in size compared to previous melees, I think. My gut instinct told me it was going to be less, not more.

      So I spoke up. Now, if people realize some people who waive a banner are bullshit, then, hey, hey, cool.

  87. Dena Rash Guzman

      Andrew, I saw it as an illustration, not a report. All this is doing is drawing attention away from the issue at hand, which is allegations of violence. Thanks for trying to point that out as the issue to begin with. I get your clarification.

  88. deadgod

      “[Y]es, I was involved with Gregory Sherl. We were long-distance, and never wound up meeting […].”

  89. Donora Hillard

      Please get off this frequency. You are contributing nothing.

  90. Roxane

      Really? That’s what you want to contribute here?

  91. deadgod

      Dixon’s original post mentioned “physical […] and sexual abuse”. Hillard, on this thread, says, “He almost killed me.”

      Maybe these assertions are literal.

      If so, what’s being talked about? ‘Assault’, ‘rape’, and ‘attempted murder’, it sounds like, to me. Am I wrong? Because if I’m not, Sherl shouldn’t merely be playah-shamed on the internet.

      (Passage of time is no universal or uniform bar to resentment, bitterness, or, indeed, malice in the pursuit of vengeance.)

  92. deadgod

      Hi, Roxane. Someone who never met Sherl in person–do I misunderstand that?–says he abused her terribly. That’s contributed in support of another person who says he “physically […] and sexually abused” that other person–in other words, in support of an accusation of criminal misbehavior.

      What do you think of the effect of this substantiation?

  93. Dena Rash Guzman

      This one time I accidentally trespassed on a private street. I was trying to get down to the beach. A man came out of his house yelling at me from his ocean view balcony to get the fuck off his private street. I said, “I am sorry for trespassing. It won’t happen again. Can I still enter the beach through the gate? I am at it already.” He threatened me, saying, “Get the fuck off my street the way you came in before I call the police.” As I started back toward the gate, he yelled, “That’s right. I am up here. You are down there. You do as I say.” I returned back to the gate and exited to the beach. Have fun playing marbles with the planets, Jereme Dean. I LOVE hopscotch,

  94. deadgod

      I’m not interested in contributing to your personal blog, nor any that would exclude me for arguing non-abusively with you.

      You quoted something, and I quoted preceding remarks from the same source. What’s the problem?

  95. Dena Rash Guzman

      Don’t compliment yourself too much there, JD. We – meaning myself and other ‘feminists’ I know of – are working on this. That said we don’t just jump to yell. And not one of us are jumping because you are demanding it and using quotation marks dismissively. We process. We don’t just spit shit out. We talk to the people making allegations first and stuff. “Feminists” have a funny way of handling allegations of physical abuse and it seldom involves thoughtlessly throwing shit around our “cage” like some kind of “ape.” – thanks for proving my point about your comment yourself. You meant it to antagonize and that is not called for in a situation like this and that is why this conversation should not be taking place here.

  96. Dena Rash Guzman

      “actual” action. Thank you for deciding what is real and what is not. I’m so done here. Ew.

  97. Donora Hillard

      I don’t have a blog, dude. I got lots of context, though.

  98. Ben Spivey
  99. Roxane

      Abuse can take place in a lot of different ways. The substantiation is a show of support.

      I was taken aback by the original post, because I’ve known Greg Sherl for years and in fact, blurbed his novel last week, which feels quite uncomfortable now. Witch hunts serve no one’s best interests but this doesn’t feel like a witch hunt. I hope Sherl gets the help he clearly needs but I’m not going to doubt victims or belittle them, or get cute with cherry picking their statements to make some kind of vague point, as you have done.

  100. deadgod

      I’ve made several explicit and detailed points on this thread; what you’ve picked to question is my quotation, without skeptical or belittling comment, of a part of that support.

      Is that quotation of Groom’s vague in its relevance to its ability to support accusations that Sherl is a violent sex offender? (I’d add, ‘Really?’, but you’ve already taken that line.)

      We seem to agree about witch hunts and, maybe, about mob justice: they make it harder to combat actually evil shit.

  101. deadgod

      I’m glad you contributed some context, dude, and wouldn’t tell you not to contribute more. I don’t know if this guy perpetrates malevolent violence; if he does, he should be stopped and punished.

  102. Bobby Dixon

      I think abuse is legit evil

  103. Kia

      Naturally I can’t substantiate allegations of physically violent or physically sexually inappropriate behavior. As you point out, I was not there physically. But I felt it was important to speak up because, in my experiences (which, yes, took place via Skype, e-mails, Facebook chat, Twitter etc, over a period of 3-5 months), the kind of psychological manipulation, coercion and need for control that likely underlie the more serious things that Kat Dixon experienced were very much at play in my relationship with Sherl. And yes, it was a relationship – we live in a digital age. You’re not opening your eyes if you think people can’t be taken advantage of and victimized online. I really have no desire to delineate the finer points of those 3 months, but the relationship was predicated on an insane degree of control on the part of Sherl, and unfortunately I was silly enough, at the time, to give him that power and not walk away. Am I somewhat culpable? Absolutely. I am culpable in a way that Kat, whose situation was much more serious, much more dangerous, is not. But again, it seemed important to me to speak up about my experiences, because there is a similarity, and because I hoped it might give others the courage to do so. Perhaps that will prove to be a mistake. For what it’s worth, I genuinely do hope he gets help, but I think OCD is the least of his worries.

  104. Kia

      “playah shamed”?

      Dear god.

  105. jereme_dean

      The Sherl Camp responds: “The fundraiser is about to
      close and I just wanted to thank everyone so much for their support in
      this campaign. What’s truly incredible is the amount of personal
      messages both Greg and I have received from people struggling with
      similar issues. We’ve had some amazing conversations with people all
      over the world. People have reached out to us and, hopefully, found that
      they are not alone in their battles. More than anything we wanted to
      use this as an opportunity to start talking about mental health in a
      public sphere, to make it more okay to talk about mental health, and
      this is something we’ll continue to do.

      Love,

      Sarah”

  106. jereme_dean

      I made no demands, DRG. I just left it as a point to think about.

      Which clearly worked. Duh.

      FUCKING DUH.

      Unsure why you get to decide where a discussion takes place. I understand, you’re a vacuum creature. Still. Seems wrong.

      And as far as ‘this place’ goes, htmlg provided the platform for people to come forth and talk, which has lead to further discussion/action/whatever.

      Like, why are you even here if htmlg is so terrible.

      Something to think about.

  107. jereme_dean

      Just envisioned you in a room full of cats throwing a frappucino on the floor, then raising your hands above your head while saying “i am soooo done, everyone.”

      The cats looking back at you, heads tilted, confused.

  108. BipolarSufferer

      I’m bothered by this smarmy, touchy-feely “campaign” that purports to start a conversation “about mental health in a public sphere” when Sherl refuses to acknowledge his mistreatment of others, suggesting–through his silence–that his illness is to blame.

      It is an unfortunate reality that symptoms of certain severe mental illnesses can make one prone to anger and rage, which in extreme cases can lead to violence, BUT it is also true that the overwhelming majority of those suffering with those illnesses, like Bipolar, are aware of this propensity and feel tremendous guilt and remorse when they hurt others (in any capacity).

      Indeed, one of the worst aspects of Bipolar is living with post-episode guilt and shame, knowing you allowed your symptoms to get the best of you and hurt others. In fact, for some (including myself), paranoia sets in and the sufferer begins to think that every little thing he or she does will hurt someone; he or she begins to apologize when it’s unnecessary, or exaggerate the degree to which he might have lashed out at someone.

      Most people suffering with such illnesses are aware that, though their symptoms can be debilitating, they are ultimately responsible for managing their symptoms. To suggest otherwise is to not be be an advocate for the mentally ill, so understand, Sherl Camp, that you are reducing the humanity of those suffering from severe mental illnesses when you imply they are incapable of expressing remorse and accepting the consequences for their actions. You do not speak for me. Please go away and don’t return until you decide to be honest.

  109. julwa

      People don’t stand to gain anything but ridicule, shaming, potential ostracizing, and even potential assault from disclosing to the public that they have been abused by a famous, popular, or well-liked person. The statistic for how many false abuse claims there are, is the same statistic for how many false claims there are of all other crimes.

  110. julwa

      People don’t stand to gain anything but ridicule, shaming, potential
      ostracizing, and even potential assault from disclosing to the public
      that they have been abused by a famous, popular, or well-liked person.
      The statistic for how many false abuse claims there are, is the same
      statistic for how many false claims there are of all other crimes.

      I am very frustrated that I fell for his fundraiser and contributed to it. I felt very moved by his struggle and how it was represented. Now I feel manipulated and really frustrated. Does anyone know how I can get my money back from that site? I will donate it to a domestic violence organization instead.

  111. deadgod

      Yes, that’s almost a tautology. But, with respect to the accusations against Sherl, what’s meant by “abuse”? Assault, rape, near-murderous violence? Or lying and cheating and domineering and talking partners into things they’re openly uncomfortable with? It’s no defense of douchebag tactics to say that that latter kind of “emotional abuse” is qualitatively different than “physical […] and sexual abuse” (however they’re connected (?) and however often they coexist). They’re two different kinds of ‘evil’–involving different levels of ability to defend oneself and so on–, being cheesy and being violently criminal. Fair?

  112. Kia

      I believe you can e-mail them before the fundraiser closes. There’s a comment somewhere on here that says another contributor succeeded in getting a refund.

  113. Kia

      Cheesy?

      I don’t see where you’re seeing a tautology, but let me clarify. I think that yes, it’s fair to say that there are varying levels and degrees of abuse. It would be wrong of me to claim that the damage done to me was even approaching equivalent to what has happened to the other victims who have come forward, however yes, there was still damage done. It goes beyond “douchebag tactics”, lying, cheating, etc. Those things are, sadly, par for the course in many interpersonal relationships and are not things I would count as abuse, nor things I would enter a public forum to discuss (although of course they can be present in abusive relationships). The kind of psychological abuse I experienced (notice I say “psychological” and not “emotional” – this is important, as I feel to characterize it as emotional abuse is a subtle form of gaslighting that implies “gee, lady, sorry not sorry that your feelings were hurt, get over it” – this is not about my feelings, it’s about my mental health and stability) extends beyond hurt feelings, and/or being coerced into things I was not comfortable with. Of course there are different levels of ability to defend oneself: I never met the guy face to face (thankfully). I dodged a bullet. It’s very easy to say “well, why didn’t you just stop talking to him” or “why did you let him get away with x” and those are valid queries, but to ask them, and to shift the focus onto the victim, to say the victim is entirely responsible is to misunderstand the nature of psychologically abusive relationships. It’s very hard for me to talk about this with you (or anyone) without providing you with concrete examples, which I would rather not do, for numerous reasons. Can you accept that there’s a difference between psychological abuse and “silly woman got feelings hurt, playah gonna play”?

  114. deadgod

      Well, if someone was devious and exploited your vulnerabilities–online or irl–, that sucks; it embarrasses–as well as infuriates–me to have been treated that way, and shames me deeply to remember that I’ve been a manipulator myself.

      But the accusation you’ve strongly supported is, to me, of a different kind of victimization.

  115. Kia

      Of course – I agree – it is a different kind of abuse, a different kind of victimization. And I supported it because, although I cannot independently verify because I was not there, and I did not see it, I see no reason to disbelieve either KD or Donora. When cases of abuse hit the media (mainstream or underground/internet) it’s very easy to be critical of the alleged victim, to suggest that they’re lying, to start looking for holes in their version of events – particularly when the accused is popular and successful. For me, it was important to lend my voice of support to KD and Donora (neither of whom I knew before now, incidentally) and to tell a small part of my experience, which I do believe lends credibility to their experiences – because abusive behavior manifests in many different ways, and while of course just because someone was psychologically abusive it doesn’t necessarily follow that they were physically abusive, I think the overall picture should be taken into account, particularly in this case when you have three people (myself included) giving first-hand testimony of varying forms of abuse at the hands of the same individual.

      Also, I’m sorry but there is still an element of dismissal and minimization in your assessment of my situation: it was not “embarrassing” and it did not boil down to GS being “devious”. It was more serious than that. I don’t generally put my reputation on the line because someone embarrassed me.

  116. julwa

      Hell of a thing to not believe people who’ve been abused.

  117. deadgod

      Sure. Like publishing the fact that someone who knew that one was happily engaged had tried to pressure one into a threesome: trying to embarrass that other person for having been manipulative and sexually unscrupulous –– ‘playah shaming’.

      Let me say, I don’t think that’s unfair: if you’re gonna play, people are going to talk about your playah moves.

      But to me, that’s different than calling somebody “physically […] and sexually abusive”.

  118. Kia

      That’s one small element of a wider narrative of abuse, control, manipulation and exploitation.

  119. julwa

      Thanks. I emailed Sarah, the organizer of the fundraiser and his partner (there’s a button to contact her on the page.) She said to email info@giveforward.com or call 312-322-1200 for a refund. I’m not sure whether or not it has to be done by the end of the fundraiser.

  120. Kia

      You get whatever is pledged, I believe.

  121. deadgod

      I should’ve looked at this before answering your earlier “Dear god.” below.

      I don’t say “emotional” to box your “psychological” into a head-pat. I took it from Dixon’s “physical, emotional, and sexual abuse”; I think the physical and sexual abuse should be set apart from emotional abuse. Of course, psychological coercion is experienced as ‘violent’ and can be plenty destructive to oneself, and I don’t look down–if that’s relevant or interesting–on anyone for self-castigaton, bitterness, and (measured) retaliation for having been tormented by some vicious bastard. It’s not always “easy” to walk away from a capable insinuator, and destructive to suppose it should be (for oneself or for others).

      But ‘assault’ and ‘rape’ are something different. Maybe it’s naive to suppose that the physical and emotional can and should be separated from each other, as though, in a concrete relationship, they don’t blend into each other. But, as you say, deviousness is an unhappy part of many or most relationships of all sorts, where physical violence is, excepting only cases of self-defense, universally unacceptable.

  122. Here is Your Outrage: I Stand With Kat Dixon and Others Claiming Harm |

      […] on her statement. I hope no one claiming hurt is further hurt by this piece.  While I commend HTMLGIANT for sharing this news, I do not believe its troll-inabited forums are a great space for discussion […]

  123. Kia

      Alright, I understand what you’re saying, but I still think you’re confusing psychological abuse with deviousness. They are perhaps related, but they are not the same thing.

      Assault and rape are very serious allegations, and they are not allegations I am personally making. I do, however, offer my support to the victims, and will continue to do so in whatever way I can.

  124. deadgod

      And I agree: as to exposing perpetrators of sexual violence, victims are in the extremely difficult position of making themselves vulnerable to re-victimization, both in the sense of unkind incredulity and, dangerously, of violent retaliation.

      But naming someone a ‘rapist’ – which is not too much of an exaggeration for the accusations against Sherl? – is to visit opprobrium and danger on another. In the case of a rapist, that has to be done.

      But for someone not directly knowledgable about the participants, not to be wary of quick, emotional (sorry) condemnation is, in fact, not to take the violence seriously.

      I think you’re putting me in a position where I can’t be wary or (in my mind) measured without me minimizing the problem of sexual violence and belittling you personally. Maybe I can’t, but I disagree.

  125. Kia

      If you feel you should be wary, be wary. I don’t mean to put anyone in any kind of position, I only mean to support the women who I believe to be telling the truth, by telling my personal truth, and by being a voice in concert with theirs.

      If people wish to belittle my claims, or belittle me personally, that’s fine. I acknowledge that my experiences are, in many ways, a different beast to those of KD and Donora. But they are symptomatic of the same kind of manipulative and abusive personality, and they were still extremely damaging and traumatic experiences.

      If I’m reading you correctly (perhaps I’m not?) then I’m sorry you feel that what I had to say made it difficult for you to take the other allegations seriously. Obviously that was not my intent, and I do not wish to detract from the seriousness of the allegations made by the other victims. Food for thought. I’m stepping out of this shit show for a while (though I thank you for being respectful and measured in your dialogue with me).

  126. Mark Cugini

      I used the livechat feature to get my money back. If I’m not mistaken, that CS rep told me that once the funding closed, they wouldn’t be able to issue a refund. Please keep us informed, as it would be pretty shitty of Giveforward to not give you your money back.

  127. Dena Rash Guzman
  128. deadgod

      That’s kind of you to remark; in my view, you’ve been admirably reasonable in what must be a distressing conversation. As I see things, your experiences don’t have anything directly to do with Dixon’s experiences or accusations (except to give another perspective of Sherl); that was my point. That is, I got engaged in this subthread because a bit of your blogicle was quoted and I felt it – not you – was misleadingly absent a piece of information that preceded it in your blogicle (which was what I quoted in response). I, too, hope women and men violently mistreated are increasingly comfortable and, more importantly, safe in coming forward; I also hope the power such an accusation can have doesn’t draw people to using it to the eventual detriment of those victims.

  129. jereme_dean

      Thanks, I saw it earlier when somebody posted it on facebook. Seriously, thank you. I hope more ‘feminists’/feminists do the same.

      On an ancillary topic:

      I’m confused… why are you posting this here? Aren’t you a-a-afraid. I mean, you did say that posting on htmlg was dangerous, like trying to talk feminism in the high school locker room after a team just won state.

      And, bitch, if you’re going to call people names, show some respect and do it to their face. For fuck’s sake.

  130. julwa

      Will someone in charge here please delete this hateful, violent comment or ban this user, for the love of god? Otherwise it will be official
      that HTMLG deserves all the criticism it gets for supporting misogyny.

      I hope the right thing is done…

  131. jereme_dean

      Lol, in what way am I being hateful towards women.

  132. julwa

      What is wrong with you? Do you not understand that the word “bitch” is hateful and gendered and misogynist?? Am I having a dream right now in which the lit world has turned inside out and taken a huge shit on itself? What is going on?????

  133. jereme_dean

      First off, using a derogatory term doesn’t mean a person hates an entire gender. That logic is about as firm as a brick of swiss cheese floating in a pool of piss.

      Second, bitch has multiple meanings. Just like the term fag doesn’t necessarily mean homosexual. There’s even a south park episode about it. Get over it.

      Calling a person a hairy asshole or troll is just as hurtful as ‘bitch’.

      What’s even more fucked up is implying that posting here is dangerous because it’s a place of mindless, rabid boys who just want to be violent.

      Fuck you. Fuck Dena. Fuck everyone who wants to bully people. But, most importantly, fuck Greg Sherl.

      I’m now done with the circuitous blab blab.

  134. julwa

      Ha. Wow. You have your head up your butt so far it’s coming back out your mouth from the inside and you’re vomiting out of yourself. Good work.

  135. Citric

      let’s focus on the real issue of greg sherl sucking & how he should have to go get a job if he wants to pay someone to teach him how to stop washing his hands… i think it is so lame that just because he has a winning smile & makes a stupid fucking heart shape with his hands in a picture that people automatically want to fork money over to him when there are plenty of people who need money for reasons much more justifiable than being a g*ddamn moron who can’t quit cleaning himself…. i hope that everyone who donated money to this guy actually gets their money *returned* & that greg sherl ends up with zero dollars & gets a job as a janitor where he has to clean more important shit than his stupid body

  136. A Statement of Solidarity | Quaint Magazine

      […] discussed on both HTMLGiant and Luna Luna Magazine, several women have come forward with information regarding Gregory […]

  137. Kia

      I think we should focus on Greg’s appalling treatment of women rather than his illness, which is legitimate and doubtless very painful and difficult to endure. I don’t at all doubt his suffering, and I think it’s reprehensible to mock someone for something they cannot change. He is sick. But that does not for a moment excuse his actions.

  138. Usedtocould

      It should go without saying that someone who is physically and sexually abusive should be punished, but not once in this thread did I see someone say they filed a police report or logged a criminal complaint. I guess that, combined with the hyperbolic tone of the accusations leveled against Sherl is what I find most shocking about this.

  139. adk35

      But what happens to victims of abuse who file sexual assault or abuse charges against their lovers? What happens to women who realize abuse long after the fact when there is no physical evidence? What happens to those who claim psychological or emotional abuse? The system for reporting these things as crimes is not particularly friendly to victims.

      I don’t pretend to know the details of what happened between the accusers and Gregory Sherl, but I can’t imagine I would ever doubt a claimed victim — male or female — on grounds of not filing a police report, considering that the numbers for reports are low, those that are prosecuted are lower still, and the charges that actually result in conviction are lowest of all. Meanwhile the victims are shamed, doubted, and dragged through the mud.

      If these allocations are false? What Gregory Sherl can do is make assertions of libel. He has that recourse, and it’s a hell of a lot easier to prove than abuse charges. A sad truth.

  140. adk35

      I think it is most tragic that these allegations came near the end of the fundraiser, and that refunds could only be issued before the funding. I think two moves will be telling:

      1. Will Gregory Sherl address this at all?
      2. If people ask them directly for refunds, will their requests be honored?

  141. mimi

      i don’t think anyone at all is trying to excuse his actions

  142. mimi

      i was curious about that too

  143. mimi

      but filing a police report is one way to take action, and there are victim-support services available

      i understand the fear and difficulty involved in choosing to file – fear of retaliation, etc

      i speak from personal experience – i was accosted/carjacked by four young women right outside my home

      i filed a police report, i chose not to file charges, they never apprehended the young women

  144. Usedtocould

      I don’t pretend to say that it’s fair. No victim deserves to be victimized yet again by going public, but that has to be balanced against the very real fact that there is a responsibility to come forward for the sake of saving future victims of violence. And actually, filing a Personal Protection Order is quite a bit easier than you think, and it’s all you need to do to establish a pattern of behavior with someone who is an abuser. Because it acts as a record of conduct. The fact that several of these people knew one another, knew of similar stories of abuse from Sherl, and apparently chose not to do anything legally about it is really troublesome to me.

      I’d also echo the hopefully obvious ramifications of the libelous nature if any of these claims are false. If I were one of the accusers who posted, I’d be gathering emails, dates, times, places, photos, if any exist, documenting the abuse, because I’d be shocked if Sherl didn’t pursue a lawsuit.

  145. adk35

      I do not mean to make light of your experience, which I am sure was difficult and terrifying, but there is a world of systematic difference in the way a carjacking is treated by police and the sort of abuse Dixon has alleged.

  146. mimi

      i understand that

  147. Ben Spivey

      1: he probably won’t address what’s happening.
      2: Doubt it.

  148. Kia

      I realize nobody in this thread has done so (yet), I was just noting that I myself believe his illnesses shouldn’t excuse the alleged abuse.

  149. ZZZZZIPPP

      OH GOD CAN SOMEONE WITH THAT PERSONALITY DISORDER COCKTAIL EVER BE HELPED HOLY SHIT ZZZZIPP IS GOING TO GO HIDE UNDER HIS BED

  150. ZZZZZIPPP

      DENA DID YOU FORGET THAT YOU AND KAT AND ROXANE AND KIA WERE HERE?

      SERIOUSLY YOU GUYS ARE HERE AND IT IS A BETTER DISCUSSION THAN IF YOU GUYS WEREN’T HERE

  151. ZZZZZIPPP

      THEY SHOULD FILE A REPORT THOUGH

      NO THAT’S NOT GROUNDS FOR DISBELIEVING THE CLAIMS OF A VICTIM BUT IT IS GENERALLY A GOOD IDEA EVEN IF IT IS A DIFFICULT THING FOR ANYONE TO DO, MALE/FEMALE

  152. ZZZZZIPPP

      HEY LISTEN EVEN IF GREG SHIRL IS EVIL THAT HEART SHAPE THING IS REALLY ADORABLE EVEN IF IT IS TOTALLY CONTRIVED AND I HATE HIM

  153. JustAPerson

      Dang. Saw Kat Dixons 50 million tweets at the Goodmen Project- so I decided to look at her twitter (looks like she has been tweeting nonstop upon waking until bed time for over 48 hours- that’s some crazy dedication I would never have time for. So, I clicked on all these links. I think like 3 websites I never heard if had issued open letters on their “support” of the many victims who came forward… Which, after researching are two girls who happen to be friends and a girl who never met Greg but was someone so overtaken by him that she almost killed herself. I saw Kat used to words rapist and abuser a lot. So did Sherl rape her? I’m so confused. Sexual assault is like.. A legit serious thing, right?! Like holy shit. But then I can’t find any info- and Sherl is like mums-the-word… Which leads me to believe that he’s already at his treatment facility and maybe has no idea this is happening? But then I think his sister was tweeting at Kat and that seems to be the only perso defending Greg. Though I will say, it doesn’t seem as if… His.. Lyrical verbiage is a genetic thing.

      I do have to say that I don’t think going after the Goodmen Project makes sense. Like
      It kind of made me question this girls motives because she is trolling them nonstop. And thy are not the only people who publish him? I guess it seems weird. And then I tried to imagine this very intense girl with a mentally ill bf and I got freaked out. People like that should not be dating each other.

      I just kind of feel like everyone needs to take a breather. And that saying you were sexually abused by someone is upper serious and that people need to quit judging until they hear from all involved because I’m sorry- but two FRIENDS and a girl that never even met greg- like that doesn’t just make me automatically say THIS GUY IS GUILTY SO LET’S ALL GO ON TWITTER AND OUR WEBSITES AND TALK ANOUT HIS SWEATERS AND CALL H AA WOMAN ABUSER.

      And what about his GF? Like if he’s so bad, why am I not seeing anything that’s worried for her? He only mention I’ve seen is condescending words about her. That’s like the opposite of feminism, right? I don’t know. I think more people would maybe be saying what I’m saying but are too afraid because you guys are like really freaking quick to jump negatively on anyone who asks a question and doesn’t just jump on the train to derail rGreg.

  154. disqus_B62jJEdlXn

      this.

  155. Donora Hillard

      Oh dear: Kat and I are FRIENDS. Work harder at your conspiracy. Thank you.

  156. Lisa Marie Basile

      AM I READING THIS ENTIRE COMMENT THREAD CORRECTLY OR DID MY BRAIN JUST SERIOUSLY EXPLODE?

  157. Here is Your Outrage: I Stand With Kat Dixon and Others Claiming Harm by DENA RASH GUZMAN | Gently Read Literature

      […] on her statement. I hope no one claiming hurt is further hurt by this piece.  While I commend HTMLGIANT for sharing this news, I do not believe its troll-inabited forums are a great space for discussion […]

  158. ZZZZZIPPP

      CAN YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN IN MORE DETAIL ZZZIPP DOES NOT UNDERSTAND YOUR COMMUNICATION

  159. My completely narcissistic take on an internet controversy in which I had a tiny role, my first - Three Strange Things

      […] her into a threesome with the aforementioned Certa.  You have to love guys. Then Donora Hillard in a comment to an agglomerator post at HTML Giant, although she had already communicated this to me personally.  And Dixon continued her assault on […]

  160. Garett Strickland
  161. Andrew Sargus Klein

      this is just about the worst kind of response one can think of

  162. Amy Silbergeld

      It’s difficult emotionally, and often practically as well, to litigate for this kind of violence. However, given that there are a number of victims, it seems as though it would be highly unlikely for Sherl to win. Especially because he’s not able to afford a good lawyer if he wasn’t able to afford residential treatment.

      That said, I strongly support the right of every individual who is abused to make his or her own decisions about litigation. It can be a truly devastating process and, in some cases, an additional trauma.

      I hope that the women hurt by Sherl have access to the resources they need to begin healing. So much empathy and love to all of you–

  163. James Embry

      I think that the “trying to pressure into a threesome” thing is notable as, perhaps, the only individual incident cited in either of the “firsthand” accounts of abuse being discussed here. (Here is my big, red, flashing “stop me right here: notice: If there ARE more detailed accounts published online at this moment, then nothing I’m going to say here holds any water, and I will gladly STFU).

      This seeming absence of detail is, I have to say, somewhat unnerving, as so many have already written in support of the victim, whose original narrative somewhat broadly alleged “constant physical, emotional, and sexual abuse” against multiple parties, without giving any examples. The corroborating account was similarly vague, offering only a single example of any type of “behavior” by Sherl, being the aforementioned “trying to entice an engaged woman into a threesome.”

      Now, I am obviously not saying that “An allegation which does not contain specific detail must be false.” Such a statement would buckle under even slight scrutiny, as it is clearly POSSIBLE for someone to allege abuse without listing specifics.

      So why is the lack of detail “unnerving” to me? And why does the implication that I should stand “in solidarity” with the victim further my unrest? Because: I don’t know if she is telling the truth. If I did, this would all be beside the point. The fact is, both Gregory Sherl and Kat Dixon only exist as electronic abstractions to me, as “avatars” of some presumed, yet un-assessable, human consciousnesses out in the world.

      I do not say that she (Kat) “might not be telling the truth” because of her gender. I have reacted similarly to male acquaintances alleging that women (who I did not know) were “materialistic” or “controlling” or, yes, even “abusive.” I could not accept those evaluations without any supporting detail, even though they were made about people who I didn’t know, who I would never know. All that the use of those words said to me was that the person who used them had drawn a box around their perception of another person, and called that box “X” and that they were comfortable enough saying “My ex was ‘X'” and not elaborating, that they believed I should take the statement at face value. And, in all such cases, that assumption was “unnerving.”

      Why would additional detail change this? Again, I can only answer the question personally: for me, it is harder–much harder, even physically hard– to say, type, or otherwise convey the idea that someone DID a thing which I know they did not. To me, this is a lie, and lying is bad. However, to say that someone IS a thing–which I can consider them to be at some times, but not others, or that I might consider them to be but realize that, the great majority of people with access to the same facts would not consider them to be–is entirely more justifiable because it is not a lie; it is a matter of opinion. I realize that my opinions are subject to bias, so also, I infer, are those of others.

      As an example “trying to convince a person one has only met online to have a threesome, despite knowing that person is in a relationship” does not fit my schema of what is necessarily abusive (unless the entreaties were either unrelentingly persistent, disconcertingly graphic, or, in any way or manner, threatening) but I can hypothetically understand how it might fit that schema for someone else. In that case, the other person and I would have a difference of opinion on at least that particular facet of the issue, and I would be curious as to whether the other incidents comprising the abuse were similarly open to interpretation.

      I hope this doesn’t sound like attacking the victim, so much as being unsure, and trying to work out the origins of this uncertainty.

      I will also say that, if Gregory is, or has in the past been, abusive, and does suffer from a recognized mental-illness, then I hope that he gets treatment. I hope that he does not forgo treatment as a result of not being able to pay for it. Especially if he is abusive, treatment for his mental illness is probably the best possible protection for not only Gregory, but for those he might encounter later in life.

  164. Internet Literary News, February 2014 (Pre-AWP) | Writeliving's Blog

      […] The poetry world had its own version of the debate surrounding Dylan Farrow’s open letter about Woody Allen with an open letter from Kat Dixon to not support poet Gregory Sheryl’s fundraising efforts. Allegations of abuse became the topic of conversation on Dixon’s blog, on Twitter, and in HTML Giant. […]

  165. ZZZZZIPPP

      AMY YOU’RE RIGHT OF COURSE

      ZZZZIPP WAS NOT BEING HELPFUL

      OF COURSE NOT ALL SUFFERERS ARE ABUSERS AND EVEN ABUSERS MUST UNDERGO TREMENDOUS SUFFERING WHICH IS NOT TO SAY THAT ABUSE IS SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE OVERLOOKED BY ANY MEANS

      WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT ABUSE/JAIL/SUFFERING IS VERY IMPORTANT

      ZZZZIPP HAS SPENT A LOT OF TIME PORING OVER INTERNET REFERENCES IN REGARDS TO ALL OF THESE PERSONALITY DISORDERS AND WHILE HE THINKS THAT CONSCIOUSLY FEELING EMPATHY IS THE MOST IMPORTANT DECISION YOU CAN MAKE IN REGARDS TO SOMEONE WITH A PD THOSE REFERENCES ARE USUALLY MEANT FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE SOMEONE WHO IS HURTING THEM IN THEIR LIFE AND WHO ARE TRYING TO UNDERSTAND HOW TO EXTRICATE AND PROTECT THEMSELVES AND ZZZZIPP GOT OUT OF THE HABIT OF THINKING OF SUFFERERS AS PD AS HUMAN BEINGS WHICH OF COURSE THEY ARE

      AND HA HA ZZZIPP IS A PHOTON ON A WEBSITE JESUS SO

      OBVIOUSLY ZZZIPP’S COMMENT WOULD JUST MAKE IT WORSE FOR SOMEONE WHO HAS A PD OR MENTAL ILLNESS AND IS EARNESTLY TRYING TO LIVE THEIR LIVES FREE OF SUFFERING/NOT CONTINUOUSLY HURT EVERYONE THEY KNOW AND LOVE

      SORRY FOR BEING SO FLIPPANT AND UNCARING AND SORRY ZZZZIPP DIDN’T SEE YOUR COMMENT UNTIL NOW

  166. Inside the campaign against Gregory Sherl, poet and alleged abuser - buzzcarl

      […] another woman, Donora Hillard, had initially leveled claims against Sherl in a comment thread on an HTMLGIANT post about Dixon’s rallying cry, reported Dena Rash Guzman in Luna Luna Magazine at the end of that month. Writer Ryan Bradley […]