Behind the Scenes
If you were teaching a class on American experimental fiction, what texts would you choose, and why?
My apologies to Jereme, who recently commented something along the lines of “htmlgiant is like a teacher’s lounge,” but since I spent the weekend putting together course proposals for next year, I thought I’d share one of the possible reading lists I devised for my “Introduction to American Experimental Fiction” course. You’ll notice that all of the selections are on the shorter side <300 pages. This is crucial, so that I can cover a bunch of different texts. Nothing is set in stone yet, so I would love to hear what you would add or subtract from this list, and why:
Ishmael Reed – Mumbo Jumbo
William S. Burroughs – The Soft Machine
Kathy Acker – Blood and Guts in High School
Carole Maso – Aureole
Jean Toomer – Cane
David Markson – This Is Not A Novel
Gertrude Stein – Tender Buttons
Ben Marcus – The Age of Wire and String
*As a bonus, my wife found this cool database of syllabi for American Lit courses from professors at various universities (including a Poetics syllabus from Susan Howe for a course on “Sexuality and Space in 17th – 19th Century American Literature.”
Tags: carole maso, jean toomer, syllabus
Maybe a selection from House of Leaves? Just to show the variety of format & how it interacts with the plot. The book is definitely too long to read on its own.
Maybe a selection from House of Leaves? Just to show the variety of format & how it interacts with the plot. The book is definitely too long to read on its own.
I would suggest you replace “This Is Not A Novel” with “Wittgenstein’s Mistress” as that inaugurated the series of Marksonian bits-of-interconnected-artist-trivia novels.
I would suggest you replace “This Is Not A Novel” with “Wittgenstein’s Mistress” as that inaugurated the series of Marksonian bits-of-interconnected-artist-trivia novels.
Included in that cool database of syllabi for American Lit courses from professors at various universities:
William B. Warner (U. California, Santa Barbara), Cyborg Genealogies: The Gothic (studies “a selective group of novels and films and theoretical texts so as to trace the modern cyborg back to the gothic monster”) (Transcriptions Project, U. California, Santa Barbara)
Included in that cool database of syllabi for American Lit courses from professors at various universities:
William B. Warner (U. California, Santa Barbara), Cyborg Genealogies: The Gothic (studies “a selective group of novels and films and theoretical texts so as to trace the modern cyborg back to the gothic monster”) (Transcriptions Project, U. California, Santa Barbara)
These are fairly short and playful:
Invisible Cities by Italo Calvino; At Swim-Two-Birds by Flann O’Brien; Cronopios and Famas by Julio Cortazar; Exercises in Style by Raymond Queneau.
Slightly different flavor: Something by Thomas Bernhardt and/or Robbe-Grillet.
These are fairly short and playful:
Invisible Cities by Italo Calvino; At Swim-Two-Birds by Flann O’Brien; Cronopios and Famas by Julio Cortazar; Exercises in Style by Raymond Queneau.
Slightly different flavor: Something by Thomas Bernhardt and/or Robbe-Grillet.
Stanley Crawford – Log of the S.S. the Mrs. Unguentine
Donald Barthelme – 60 Stories
Richard Brautigan – In Watermelon Sugar
William Faulkner – As I Lay Dying
Stanley Crawford – Log of the S.S. the Mrs. Unguentine
Donald Barthelme – 60 Stories
Richard Brautigan – In Watermelon Sugar
William Faulkner – As I Lay Dying
Oh, excellent, mimi! Thanks!
Oh, excellent, mimi! Thanks!
AD Jameson at Big Other created his own index for Wittgenstein’s mistress I imagine students would find useful.
Jeff, I have a different Calvino, the Cortazar, Robbe-Grillet’s For A New Novel on a different list (a course on transnational experimental lit.) I’m gonna throw Bernhard into the mix…thanks!
AD Jameson at Big Other created his own index for Wittgenstein’s mistress I imagine students would find useful.
Jeff, I have a different Calvino, the Cortazar, Robbe-Grillet’s For A New Novel on a different list (a course on transnational experimental lit.) I’m gonna throw Bernhard into the mix…thanks!
can someone tell me what is the more “notable” work? “Wittgenstein’s Mistress” by Markson or “Wittgenstein’s Nephew” by Bernhard. I recently read the latter, thinking it would be awesome, and was disappointed. I am afraid it was “Wittgenstein’s Mistress” I was supposed to be reading.
can someone tell me what is the more “notable” work? “Wittgenstein’s Mistress” by Markson or “Wittgenstein’s Nephew” by Bernhard. I recently read the latter, thinking it would be awesome, and was disappointed. I am afraid it was “Wittgenstein’s Mistress” I was supposed to be reading.
Agree with the In Watermelon Sugar. What about some poetic interludes: E.e cummings, Dylan Thomas, Ashbery, etc.
Agree with the In Watermelon Sugar. What about some poetic interludes: E.e cummings, Dylan Thomas, Ashbery, etc.
Nephew is one of Bernhard’s less illustrious works I think, while Mistress is a masterpiece. Definitely read Mistress.
Nephew is one of Bernhard’s less illustrious works I think, while Mistress is a masterpiece. Definitely read Mistress.
Inish by Bernard Share
Inish by Bernard Share
Too bad, he’s not American, actually. My mistake.
Too bad, he’s not American, actually. My mistake.
William H Gass.
Throw in a Martone?
Sesshu Foster, Atomik Aztex. (And yeah, some Barthelme, def).
William H Gass.
Throw in a Martone?
Sesshu Foster, Atomik Aztex. (And yeah, some Barthelme, def).
The apology to Jereme sounds false. Or is that sarcasm? or irony? or experimental insult?
The apology to Jereme sounds false. Or is that sarcasm? or irony? or experimental insult?
i’d add something from the trilogy, probably molloy.
actually, there are really great selections in becketts collected short prose like texts for nothing and ping, etc.
funny i lterally checked out tender buttons from the library today i was just over there, i’ve had it on hold and it finally came in.
sound and the fury if its not too long.
i’d add something from the trilogy, probably molloy.
actually, there are really great selections in becketts collected short prose like texts for nothing and ping, etc.
funny i lterally checked out tender buttons from the library today i was just over there, i’ve had it on hold and it finally came in.
sound and the fury if its not too long.
off the top of my head:
Kenneth Patchen – The Journal of Albion Moonlight
Racter – The Policeman’s Beard Is Half-Constructed
Bob Burden – The Flaming Carrot
Ishmael Reed – Yellow Back Radio Broke-Down
James Tate – Dreams Of A Robot Dancing Bee
William Goyen – The House Of Breath
Richard Brautigan – In Watermelon Sugar
Jonathan Lethem – Gun, With Occasional Music
off the top of my head:
Kenneth Patchen – The Journal of Albion Moonlight
Racter – The Policeman’s Beard Is Half-Constructed
Bob Burden – The Flaming Carrot
Ishmael Reed – Yellow Back Radio Broke-Down
James Tate – Dreams Of A Robot Dancing Bee
William Goyen – The House Of Breath
Richard Brautigan – In Watermelon Sugar
Jonathan Lethem – Gun, With Occasional Music
im curious why you think robot bee experimental?
im curious why you think robot bee experimental?
i just read wn recently too, it was my first taste of bernhard but i liked it. enough to get me some more of that. what i really want to read is correction though. next.
and i cant find a copy of wm anywhere i’m going to have to buy it i think.
i just read wn recently too, it was my first taste of bernhard but i liked it. enough to get me some more of that. what i really want to read is correction though. next.
and i cant find a copy of wm anywhere i’m going to have to buy it i think.
I waffled on that one. I wouldn’t say the stories are experimental with respect to form. I was thinking in respect to the movement within the stories. Unpredictable action, or diction, maybe? It’s been a few years since I read it, so maybe my memory is giving more credit than due.
I waffled on that one. I wouldn’t say the stories are experimental with respect to form. I was thinking in respect to the movement within the stories. Unpredictable action, or diction, maybe? It’s been a few years since I read it, so maybe my memory is giving more credit than due.
no worries. i didnt mean to be snarky. i thought kind of the same though, the form is almost wnti-experimental, like they are textbook examples of stories. if i was to say tate at all, probably white donkeys but i wouldn’t add tate i think or edson to an experimental list. they’re just kind of quirky is all.
no worries. i didnt mean to be snarky. i thought kind of the same though, the form is almost wnti-experimental, like they are textbook examples of stories. if i was to say tate at all, probably white donkeys but i wouldn’t add tate i think or edson to an experimental list. they’re just kind of quirky is all.
Christopher – I totally overlooked that your class is American experimental work! Whoops.
In that spirit, maybe some John Hawkes (Lime Twig?), William Gass (In the Heart of the Heat of the Country or Omensetter?), or Dennis Cooper (Period?). Last Exit to Brooklyn also comes to mind.
In any case, looks like a really strong syllabus already.
Christopher – I totally overlooked that your class is American experimental work! Whoops.
In that spirit, maybe some John Hawkes (Lime Twig?), William Gass (In the Heart of the Heat of the Country or Omensetter?), or Dennis Cooper (Period?). Last Exit to Brooklyn also comes to mind.
In any case, looks like a really strong syllabus already.
Nephew is the only Bernhard I’ve read so far (because it was on Dennis Cooper’s top fifty novels list), but it did make me wanna read more.
Nephew is the only Bernhard I’ve read so far (because it was on Dennis Cooper’s top fifty novels list), but it did make me wanna read more.
hey man. teachers need shit to do, places to hang, i’m cool with that.
but i do remember this place being different at one time.
that is all.
i get confused when people say “experimental fiction”. i have no reference what that means.
how is something experimental once it finishes?
hey man. teachers need shit to do, places to hang, i’m cool with that.
but i do remember this place being different at one time.
that is all.
i get confused when people say “experimental fiction”. i have no reference what that means.
how is something experimental once it finishes?
I second all these choices.
I second all these choices.
Maybe some Coover. Spanking the Maid.
Maybe some Coover. Spanking the Maid.
yeh, Newphew is the worst Bernhard I’ve read.
yeh, Newphew is the worst Bernhard I’ve read.
love that book!
Joseph McElroy’s LOOKOUT CARTRIDGE or PLUS
Harry Mathews’ CIGARETTES or THE CONVERSIONS
Renee Gladman’s THE ACTIVIST
Thalia Field’s POINT AND LINE
John Dos Passos’ USA TRILOGY
love that book!
Joseph McElroy’s LOOKOUT CARTRIDGE or PLUS
Harry Mathews’ CIGARETTES or THE CONVERSIONS
Renee Gladman’s THE ACTIVIST
Thalia Field’s POINT AND LINE
John Dos Passos’ USA TRILOGY
The Adventures of Mao on the Long March by Fredric Tuten
The Interceptor Pilot by Kenneth Gangemi
Xman by Michael Brodsky
Translated Accounts by James Kelman
The Lost Scrapbbok by Evan Dara
Cambodia: A book for people who think television is too slow by Brian Fawcett
Queue by Vladimir Sorokin
False Positive by Harold Jaffe
The Adventures of Mao on the Long March by Fredric Tuten
The Interceptor Pilot by Kenneth Gangemi
Xman by Michael Brodsky
Translated Accounts by James Kelman
The Lost Scrapbbok by Evan Dara
Cambodia: A book for people who think television is too slow by Brian Fawcett
Queue by Vladimir Sorokin
False Positive by Harold Jaffe
Exercises in Style by Raymond Queneau. Agree. My mentor at Antioch is having us write versions of our poems modeled after the concept. It’s a new and rewarding experience.
Exercises in Style by Raymond Queneau. Agree. My mentor at Antioch is having us write versions of our poems modeled after the concept. It’s a new and rewarding experience.
My girlfriend has taught Tender Buttons to her students in the past, with fairly great success. Its always fun to hear about them losing their minds when they realize some cute-sounding little poem is actually about a vagina–as an extreme example–or is just generally now what it might seem.
Glad to see Maso on your list too!
My girlfriend has taught Tender Buttons to her students in the past, with fairly great success. Its always fun to hear about them losing their minds when they realize some cute-sounding little poem is actually about a vagina–as an extreme example–or is just generally now what it might seem.
Glad to see Maso on your list too!
Oops… Guess that’s French.
Oops… Guess that’s French.
no love for john barth?
lost in the funhouse springs to mind
no love for john barth?
lost in the funhouse springs to mind
ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME
ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME
You are wrong, Mather. I like Jereme. I was being sincere. I don’t often do irony, and when I attempt sarcasm I almost always fail.
You are wrong, Mather. I like Jereme. I was being sincere. I don’t often do irony, and when I attempt sarcasm I almost always fail.
oh i thought it was sincere.
i can usually tell.
i am a keen observer of humans and their bullshit nature.
you a soul swallowing motherfucker in my book.
oh i thought it was sincere.
i can usually tell.
i am a keen observer of humans and their bullshit nature.
you a soul swallowing motherfucker in my book.
The USA Trilogy blew my mind in high school (not sure what level this class is targeted towards, but Dos Passos seems to be under-taught at all levels); John Barth, Lost in the Funhouse; William Gibson, Neuromancer; Thomas Pynchon, The Crying of Lot 49; Nabokov, Pale Fire; Allan Ginsberg, ‘Howl’; Henry Miller, Tropic of Cancer.
Leaves of Grass? I suppose it depends on your definition of ‘experimental’/what direction you want to go in.
Not American, but certainly worth looking at (if not for this course, than for something else along the line): Brion Gysin; Hugh MacDiarmid, A Drunk Man Looks at the Thistle; Finnegan’s Wake; Robbe-Grillet; John Fowles, The French Lieutenant’s Woman; Pirandello, 6 Characters in Search of an Author
The USA Trilogy blew my mind in high school (not sure what level this class is targeted towards, but Dos Passos seems to be under-taught at all levels); John Barth, Lost in the Funhouse; William Gibson, Neuromancer; Thomas Pynchon, The Crying of Lot 49; Nabokov, Pale Fire; Allan Ginsberg, ‘Howl’; Henry Miller, Tropic of Cancer.
Leaves of Grass? I suppose it depends on your definition of ‘experimental’/what direction you want to go in.
Not American, but certainly worth looking at (if not for this course, than for something else along the line): Brion Gysin; Hugh MacDiarmid, A Drunk Man Looks at the Thistle; Finnegan’s Wake; Robbe-Grillet; John Fowles, The French Lieutenant’s Woman; Pirandello, 6 Characters in Search of an Author
jane bowles, two serious ladies
melville: the confidence man
evenson, dark property
dennis cooper, the sluts
vollmann, you bright and risen (just the first section, since yr keeping it short)
lish, peru
dale peck, the law of enclosures
marcus, notable american women
.
jane bowles, two serious ladies
melville: the confidence man
evenson, dark property
dennis cooper, the sluts
vollmann, you bright and risen (just the first section, since yr keeping it short)
lish, peru
dale peck, the law of enclosures
marcus, notable american women
.
Coleman Dowell (you could do a story from The Houses of Children). Padgett Powell’s The Interrogative Mood. Mary Caponegro. Some shorter Gaddis (Carpenter’s Gothic or Agape, Agape). Joshua Cohen’s Cadenza for the Schneidermann Violinconcerto. Some Stephen Dixon. Rick Moody.
Coleman Dowell (you could do a story from The Houses of Children). Padgett Powell’s The Interrogative Mood. Mary Caponegro. Some shorter Gaddis (Carpenter’s Gothic or Agape, Agape). Joshua Cohen’s Cadenza for the Schneidermann Violinconcerto. Some Stephen Dixon. Rick Moody.
i love, love, love confidence man. one day i’m gonna totally finish it
i love, love, love confidence man. one day i’m gonna totally finish it
Ironically one of the main characters in Correction, one of Bernhard’s finest, is based on Wittgenstein himself, no?
And mediocre Bernhard is like a mid-sized building in midtown; against most backdrops it towers.
Ironically one of the main characters in Correction, one of Bernhard’s finest, is based on Wittgenstein himself, no?
And mediocre Bernhard is like a mid-sized building in midtown; against most backdrops it towers.
This comment thread is making me wonder what everyone’s definition of “experimental” is.
This comment thread is making me wonder what everyone’s definition of “experimental” is.
This would be interesting, but not sure I could do it justice by excerpting…certainly something to consider, though. Thanks!
This would be interesting, but not sure I could do it justice by excerpting…certainly something to consider, though. Thanks!
me too
me too
Jeff, I went back and forth on The Lime Twig (one of my all time favorite books) as well as Barth’s Lost in the Funhouse, but decided to try to avoid that group of postmodernists (Hawkes, Gass, Gaddis, Coover, Barth, etc) because I figured they were the usual suspects — as if Burroughs isn’t — I know, I know! Anyway, I may have to revise this decision because leaving those dudes out is a serious deficiency. Last Exit to Brooklyn is another great suggestion – love that one – especially the Tralala section. And DC’s Period is currently in my stack of stuff to read. Thanks for the ideas and your encouraging words!
although im not really wondering very hard. its a casual wonder.
Jeff, I went back and forth on The Lime Twig (one of my all time favorite books) as well as Barth’s Lost in the Funhouse, but decided to try to avoid that group of postmodernists (Hawkes, Gass, Gaddis, Coover, Barth, etc) because I figured they were the usual suspects — as if Burroughs isn’t — I know, I know! Anyway, I may have to revise this decision because leaving those dudes out is a serious deficiency. Last Exit to Brooklyn is another great suggestion – love that one – especially the Tralala section. And DC’s Period is currently in my stack of stuff to read. Thanks for the ideas and your encouraging words!
although im not really wondering very hard. its a casual wonder.
Yes, it kills me not to include In Watermelon Sugar….I need to cut something to include that one.
Yes, it kills me not to include In Watermelon Sugar….I need to cut something to include that one.
in fact im pretty much wondering about completely other things now.
in fact im pretty much wondering about completely other things now.
He’s a new name to me. Thanks for the tip, I’m gonna check him out.
He’s a new name to me. Thanks for the tip, I’m gonna check him out.
IN WATERMELON SUGAR keeps coming up. My vote would be for REVENGE OF THE LAWN instead – particularly if you can find the cover with the fresh faced young woman at the kitchen table in the high back chair behind, for some reason, a big chocolate cake.
We have a term or even several for the form that these stories take but there wasn’t a term for them then.
IN WATERMELON SUGAR keeps coming up. My vote would be for REVENGE OF THE LAWN instead – particularly if you can find the cover with the fresh faced young woman at the kitchen table in the high back chair behind, for some reason, a big chocolate cake.
We have a term or even several for the form that these stories take but there wasn’t a term for them then.
I’ve used Martone by Martone before. He’s certainly one I always consider. Also considering your friend Ander Monson’s Other Electricities, which is freaking awesome.
I’ve used Martone by Martone before. He’s certainly one I always consider. Also considering your friend Ander Monson’s Other Electricities, which is freaking awesome.
Wow! I’ve never heard of Sesshu Foster…just looked him up…he’s got a couple books out and they all look awesome. Thanks for this tip!
Wow! I’ve never heard of Sesshu Foster…just looked him up…he’s got a couple books out and they all look awesome. Thanks for this tip!
Also Renata Adler, Mary Butts, Paul West, Gilbert Sorrentino, Lance Olsen, Steve Katz.
Also Renata Adler, Mary Butts, Paul West, Gilbert Sorrentino, Lance Olsen, Steve Katz.
theres a range of definitions. like the us constitution was experimental. einsteins theory of relativity. im just being stupid
theres a range of definitions. like the us constitution was experimental. einsteins theory of relativity. im just being stupid
Beckett has to go in my transnational course…but hell yeah…for that syllabus I’m leaning toward Watt (probably my favorite Beckett) or else the Nohow On trilogy, which is (arguably) his craziest. The short prose is great, too. Tough decision.
You will LOVE Tender Buttons, Darby. At least I think/hope you will. It’s one of my all time favorite books.
Beckett has to go in my transnational course…but hell yeah…for that syllabus I’m leaning toward Watt (probably my favorite Beckett) or else the Nohow On trilogy, which is (arguably) his craziest. The short prose is great, too. Tough decision.
You will LOVE Tender Buttons, Darby. At least I think/hope you will. It’s one of my all time favorite books.
Good call on the Patchen, Brian. That’s a doozy. Couple of unfamiliar titles on your list (Racter? Goyen?), gonna hunt them down . Thanks!
Good call on the Patchen, Brian. That’s a doozy. Couple of unfamiliar titles on your list (Racter? Goyen?), gonna hunt them down . Thanks!
Good question, Jereme. I should address my definition of experimental fiction. I keep saying I’m gonna do a post on that subject here, but then I never do it. I need to work on my follow through.
Good question, Jereme. I should address my definition of experimental fiction. I keep saying I’m gonna do a post on that subject here, but then I never do it. I need to work on my follow through.
Harry Mathews The Conversions or Tlooth, Gilbert Sorrentino and Mulligan Stew, Coover for sure, I’d pick Pricksongs, Gilles Goat Boy by Barth, maybe… You asked why, Mathews seems obvious because of his Oulipo connections, and Sorrentino is just great, same with Coover, and I’d argue he eclipses Barth. Hard to talk about Gaddis w/o reference to the Recognitions and Jack Green etc, and Agape doesn’t work without reading his nonfiction essay on the player piano. Samuel Delaney’s “Hogg” is a testament to obscenity, maybe worth adding just to get into trouble with someone’s parents…
Harry Mathews The Conversions or Tlooth, Gilbert Sorrentino and Mulligan Stew, Coover for sure, I’d pick Pricksongs, Gilles Goat Boy by Barth, maybe… You asked why, Mathews seems obvious because of his Oulipo connections, and Sorrentino is just great, same with Coover, and I’d argue he eclipses Barth. Hard to talk about Gaddis w/o reference to the Recognitions and Jack Green etc, and Agape doesn’t work without reading his nonfiction essay on the player piano. Samuel Delaney’s “Hogg” is a testament to obscenity, maybe worth adding just to get into trouble with someone’s parents…
I just learned about Renee Gladman this past week. Just put her book Juice (I think was the title) on my list of books to check out. You are dead right about Field’s Point & Line — that book kicks major ass….can’t believe I overlooked it. Thanks!
I just learned about Renee Gladman this past week. Just put her book Juice (I think was the title) on my list of books to check out. You are dead right about Field’s Point & Line — that book kicks major ass….can’t believe I overlooked it. Thanks!
Many new titles to check out in your list. (Kelman is Irish, no?) The Evan Dara would be cool, but it’s a huge one, right? I’m looking for thin ones. Anyhow, thanks for your suggestions!
Many new titles to check out in your list. (Kelman is Irish, no?) The Evan Dara would be cool, but it’s a huge one, right? I’m looking for thin ones. Anyhow, thanks for your suggestions!
Oh hell yeah, that Queneau is classic. I do a whole Oulipo thing in my transnational course. Good recommendation.
Oh hell yeah, that Queneau is classic. I do a whole Oulipo thing in my transnational course. Good recommendation.
What, we can’t go Trout Fishing in America because people actually know it? Go Trout.
Dos Passos is experimental? I read the wrong trilogy.
Yeah, I have that book on my short story syllabus. It’s one of my favorites. But for this class, as I mentioned above, I was trying to steer clear of that crowd. Might need to amend that position.
What, we can’t go Trout Fishing in America because people actually know it? Go Trout.
Dos Passos is experimental? I read the wrong trilogy.
Yeah, I have that book on my short story syllabus. It’s one of my favorites. But for this class, as I mentioned above, I was trying to steer clear of that crowd. Might need to amend that position.
If Marvin K. Mooney had a book, I’d teach it in a heartbeat.
If Marvin K. Mooney had a book, I’d teach it in a heartbeat.
It’s an upper level college literature course. Tropic of Cancer would be a good one. The USA Trilogy is too big, but one of the three could be a possibility. Good thoughts, thanks!
It’s an upper level college literature course. Tropic of Cancer would be a good one. The USA Trilogy is too big, but one of the three could be a possibility. Good thoughts, thanks!
Dale Peck is a new name to me — gonna check him out. Is that Melville novel experimental? How so? I’ve not read it, but I love the idea that Melville wrote an experimental novel. Great thoughts. Thanks!
Dale Peck is a new name to me — gonna check him out. Is that Melville novel experimental? How so? I’ve not read it, but I love the idea that Melville wrote an experimental novel. Great thoughts. Thanks!
Yeah, I think it was Justin who did a post on that Padgett Powell book a while back and I put it on my list of books to check out. I’ll move it to the top. Thanks.
Yeah, I think it was Justin who did a post on that Padgett Powell book a while back and I put it on my list of books to check out. I’ll move it to the top. Thanks.
“6 Characters” is great. I’d second that one… and if you’re throwing drama in there, why not some of David Ives’s stuff? “Variations on the death of Trotsky” “Philip Glass Buys a Loaf of Bread” “Words, Words, Words”
All brilliant, playful one-acts. When I was in college, I was obsessed with this guy’s stuff.
My only reservation is that, as someone with a background in theater, I don’t like the idea of simply READING plays. I like to perform them. Every high school teacher did their best to kill Shakespeare for me, but I fought through it!
“6 Characters” is great. I’d second that one… and if you’re throwing drama in there, why not some of David Ives’s stuff? “Variations on the death of Trotsky” “Philip Glass Buys a Loaf of Bread” “Words, Words, Words”
All brilliant, playful one-acts. When I was in college, I was obsessed with this guy’s stuff.
My only reservation is that, as someone with a background in theater, I don’t like the idea of simply READING plays. I like to perform them. Every high school teacher did their best to kill Shakespeare for me, but I fought through it!
Personally I’d like to see more experimental sports figures. Like a baseball player who wields the bat upside down and clambers up the foul pole from time to time. Or a running back who literally runs backward. Why are professional sports so bound by convention? You’d think the 20th century never happened.
Personally I’d like to see more experimental sports figures. Like a baseball player who wields the bat upside down and clambers up the foul pole from time to time. Or a running back who literally runs backward. Why are professional sports so bound by convention? You’d think the 20th century never happened.
Gold mine of information. Thanks, Chris, for posting this.
Gold mine of information. Thanks, Chris, for posting this.
peck is often grouped with other “new narrative” writers like acker and cooper. “gay transgressive fiction,” that sort of thing. he does really interesting things with structure. law of enclosures documents a long, bitter heterosexual marriage — where it gets really wild is a fifty or sixty page stretch in the middle completely blows up the book with an intense, putatively non-fiction account of peck’s childhood. resonates with the longer story in all kinds of interesting ways. his first novel, martin and john, is one i read when i was 19 or 20 and it had a strong influence on the way i think about the types of things fiction is capable of– it’s a novel in stories, the varied protagonists of each of which are named martin and john, and again the pieces interpenetrate in ways that get my brain humming.
the melville? oh yeah. all about trickery, in particular literary trickery. wildly allusive, very strange. i’ve read it twice, and i have to say, this is one of those rare books where i think an edition w/good footnotes (the norton critical edition, for instance) can add a lot to the experience. though, per blake’s recent rebecca wolff post, it’s great even when you don’t “get” everything that’s happening.
peck is often grouped with other “new narrative” writers like acker and cooper. “gay transgressive fiction,” that sort of thing. he does really interesting things with structure. law of enclosures documents a long, bitter heterosexual marriage — where it gets really wild is a fifty or sixty page stretch in the middle completely blows up the book with an intense, putatively non-fiction account of peck’s childhood. resonates with the longer story in all kinds of interesting ways. his first novel, martin and john, is one i read when i was 19 or 20 and it had a strong influence on the way i think about the types of things fiction is capable of– it’s a novel in stories, the varied protagonists of each of which are named martin and john, and again the pieces interpenetrate in ways that get my brain humming.
the melville? oh yeah. all about trickery, in particular literary trickery. wildly allusive, very strange. i’ve read it twice, and i have to say, this is one of those rare books where i think an edition w/good footnotes (the norton critical edition, for instance) can add a lot to the experience. though, per blake’s recent rebecca wolff post, it’s great even when you don’t “get” everything that’s happening.
Gibson is Canadian god-damnit
Gibson is Canadian god-damnit
for more on that, Tim, read the Macrophenomenal Pro Basketball Almanac
everyone here should read that book actually
for more on that, Tim, read the Macrophenomenal Pro Basketball Almanac
everyone here should read that book actually
For your transnational course, you could check out Alan Halsey’s great book The Text of Shelley’s Death.
Hey so any other thoughts on what experimental might mean? Anyone define themselves as an experimental writer? I’m thinking a lot about Robbe-Grillet’s remark that all writers consider themselves realists. Some poetry I love gets defined as experimental, but can be read pretty much as mimesis if you’re in the right zone.
Great to see the books you suggest. I include R-G, Barthelme and Brautigan (Trout!) in a ‘regular’ (?) CW class here in New Zealand. Will definitely look for more of the above – thanks.
For your transnational course, you could check out Alan Halsey’s great book The Text of Shelley’s Death.
Hey so any other thoughts on what experimental might mean? Anyone define themselves as an experimental writer? I’m thinking a lot about Robbe-Grillet’s remark that all writers consider themselves realists. Some poetry I love gets defined as experimental, but can be read pretty much as mimesis if you’re in the right zone.
Great to see the books you suggest. I include R-G, Barthelme and Brautigan (Trout!) in a ‘regular’ (?) CW class here in New Zealand. Will definitely look for more of the above – thanks.
the question was/is earnest. i really have no idea what is discussed when the term ‘experimental fiction’ is used. i see the same authors mentioned when the topic is broached but other than that i am sort of clueless what the concept entails.
i would really like to read that post when you write it.
the question was/is earnest. i really have no idea what is discussed when the term ‘experimental fiction’ is used. i see the same authors mentioned when the topic is broached but other than that i am sort of clueless what the concept entails.
i would really like to read that post when you write it.
Like.
Like.
Cronopios and Famas is delightful! And a very digestible, exciting little book! Cortazar is awesome
Cronopios and Famas is delightful! And a very digestible, exciting little book! Cortazar is awesome
Yeah, Barthelme is always a good choice. If you want your kids to be really really happy, you could pass out a photocopy of “Me and Miss Mandible.” Or “The School.” Obviously, though, those are more accessible. If you wanna resurrect the dead (cymbal crash) novels, you could teach “The Dead Father,” which I think is overlooked (perhaps with good reason; I’m divided on it).
Yeah, Barthelme is always a good choice. If you want your kids to be really really happy, you could pass out a photocopy of “Me and Miss Mandible.” Or “The School.” Obviously, though, those are more accessible. If you wanna resurrect the dead (cymbal crash) novels, you could teach “The Dead Father,” which I think is overlooked (perhaps with good reason; I’m divided on it).
i read the first of the usa trilogy in an exp. novel course in grad school. the syllabus included sleepwalkers, man w/out qualities, nightwood, in parenthesis, to the lighthouse, and a few others. i was told it was experimental b/c (if i remember right) of how dos passos collaged together songs, news articles/headlines, and other bits of media, along with the stories of his characters.
i read the first of the usa trilogy in an exp. novel course in grad school. the syllabus included sleepwalkers, man w/out qualities, nightwood, in parenthesis, to the lighthouse, and a few others. i was told it was experimental b/c (if i remember right) of how dos passos collaged together songs, news articles/headlines, and other bits of media, along with the stories of his characters.
just read some theory on Dos Passos–(Carl malmgren I think…) and it referred to USA as an “assemblage” of newsreels, etc.
just read some theory on Dos Passos–(Carl malmgren I think…) and it referred to USA as an “assemblage” of newsreels, etc.
yes yes to whoever said jane bowles’ two serious ladies. amazing book.
djuna barnes’ nightwood. although it is a beast of a text.
does american include canadian? if so gail scott’s my paris or nicole brossard’s mauve desert.
i’ve taught stories from rebecca brown’s terrible girls and students always love it. or lydia davis?
chris kraus’ aliens & anorexia or dodie bellamy’s letters to mina harker.
stories: lida yuknavitch’s “loving dora” or one from rebecca brown’s “terrible girls”
oh i wrote rebecca brown twice. well she’s amazing!
yes yes to whoever said jane bowles’ two serious ladies. amazing book.
djuna barnes’ nightwood. although it is a beast of a text.
does american include canadian? if so gail scott’s my paris or nicole brossard’s mauve desert.
i’ve taught stories from rebecca brown’s terrible girls and students always love it. or lydia davis?
chris kraus’ aliens & anorexia or dodie bellamy’s letters to mina harker.
stories: lida yuknavitch’s “loving dora” or one from rebecca brown’s “terrible girls”
oh i wrote rebecca brown twice. well she’s amazing!
Harry Mathews–The Conversions
Harry Mathews–The Sinking of the Odradek Stadium
Ronald Sukenick–98.6
Raymond Federman–Double Or Nothing
Donald Barthelme–City Life
Harry Mathews–Singular Pleasures
Harry Mathews–Cigarettes
All the above are Americans, writing in English. Donald Barthelme was at his most expansive and playful here. Sukenick’s 98.6 is a great document of the 60s, by far his most interesting book. Federman’s makes joyous use of typeface and adventures in typing, yet has a tough intelligence. A book to read a few pages at a time. Each Harry Mathews is a different world, always so elegant and at first glance serene.
Books in translation are another matter.
Famous last words, by a scientist: “Most experiments fail.”
Harry Mathews–The Conversions
Harry Mathews–The Sinking of the Odradek Stadium
Ronald Sukenick–98.6
Raymond Federman–Double Or Nothing
Donald Barthelme–City Life
Harry Mathews–Singular Pleasures
Harry Mathews–Cigarettes
All the above are Americans, writing in English. Donald Barthelme was at his most expansive and playful here. Sukenick’s 98.6 is a great document of the 60s, by far his most interesting book. Federman’s makes joyous use of typeface and adventures in typing, yet has a tough intelligence. A book to read a few pages at a time. Each Harry Mathews is a different world, always so elegant and at first glance serene.
Books in translation are another matter.
Famous last words, by a scientist: “Most experiments fail.”
Some Kathy Acker — perhaps “Empire of the Senseless” and “Kathy Goes to Haiti.” Others of hers may seem dated by now.
Some Kathy Acker — perhaps “Empire of the Senseless” and “Kathy Goes to Haiti.” Others of hers may seem dated by now.
oh! i would add a story from david foster wallace brief interviews with hideous men, & i think jean toomer’s cane would be great to teach. maybe a bit from pound’s cantos. the problem with teaching the system novels is they’re so huge. maybe william gass’ essay on being blue? harry mathews’ cigarettes is a good call. maybe wittgenstein’s mistress.
oh! i would add a story from david foster wallace brief interviews with hideous men, & i think jean toomer’s cane would be great to teach. maybe a bit from pound’s cantos. the problem with teaching the system novels is they’re so huge. maybe william gass’ essay on being blue? harry mathews’ cigarettes is a good call. maybe wittgenstein’s mistress.
For a shorter McElroy novel, try THE LETTER LEFT TO ME.
I’d second John Hawkes as well. My personal favorite is THE BETTLE LEG (about as original and natural as “American surrealist fiction” gets), but any of the stories from LUNAR LANDSCAPES would work as well.
NIGHTWOOD, yes. The book is experiencing something of a Renaissance
Finally, Fielding Dawson (stories) and David Ohle (MOTORMAN, why not?)
For a shorter McElroy novel, try THE LETTER LEFT TO ME.
I’d second John Hawkes as well. My personal favorite is THE BETTLE LEG (about as original and natural as “American surrealist fiction” gets), but any of the stories from LUNAR LANDSCAPES would work as well.
NIGHTWOOD, yes. The book is experiencing something of a Renaissance
Finally, Fielding Dawson (stories) and David Ohle (MOTORMAN, why not?)
Nightwood is one of my faves. Sadly, if it’s taught at all, it’s taught in highly specialized courses. Seems a slight to me. Interesting you mention her here, because in the back in forth in the comment section of Jimmy’s article on Zelda Fitzgerald, I kept thinking “Djuna Barnes, Djuna Barnes…”
Nightwood is one of my faves. Sadly, if it’s taught at all, it’s taught in highly specialized courses. Seems a slight to me. Interesting you mention her here, because in the back in forth in the comment section of Jimmy’s article on Zelda Fitzgerald, I kept thinking “Djuna Barnes, Djuna Barnes…”
the only melville i’ve read is bartleby, and it does seem experimental, if experimental means new and different, ahead of its time. i hear moby-dick is the same way.
the fact melville died a failure and was forgotten for decades would seem to indicate he was doing *something* weird!
the only melville i’ve read is bartleby, and it does seem experimental, if experimental means new and different, ahead of its time. i hear moby-dick is the same way.
the fact melville died a failure and was forgotten for decades would seem to indicate he was doing *something* weird!
i don’t think anyone’s mentioned didion yet, but she does fascinating things with fragmenting a narrative. book of common prayer, democracy, the last thing he wanted — they’re all genius (also all quite similar — in some ways, she rewrites the same book over and over).
and dfw, yeah: selections from brief interviews sounds good.
love cigarettes (haven’t finished it yet)
i don’t think anyone’s mentioned didion yet, but she does fascinating things with fragmenting a narrative. book of common prayer, democracy, the last thing he wanted — they’re all genius (also all quite similar — in some ways, she rewrites the same book over and over).
and dfw, yeah: selections from brief interviews sounds good.
love cigarettes (haven’t finished it yet)
I figured from your choices that you were trying to avoid some of the more well-known authors (which you confirmed in the comments) but I think it’s worth reconsidering. Just because your students may have read Barth, Coover, etc. (nevermind Pynchon, Ginsberg) doesn’t mean that they won’t get something completely different out of them from the course. In college, I took three separate classes that included Ulysses and each professor/course brought something entirely new to the table/looked at the text from a different angle.
Out of curiosity, what are you considering using for your transnational course?
I figured from your choices that you were trying to avoid some of the more well-known authors (which you confirmed in the comments) but I think it’s worth reconsidering. Just because your students may have read Barth, Coover, etc. (nevermind Pynchon, Ginsberg) doesn’t mean that they won’t get something completely different out of them from the course. In college, I took three separate classes that included Ulysses and each professor/course brought something entirely new to the table/looked at the text from a different angle.
Out of curiosity, what are you considering using for your transnational course?
Yea, that’s definitely an issue, but so many really experimental/difficult plays are rarely performed; I’d rather read them than have no knowledge of them at all. With that said, I took a great experimental theater class in college and the professor tried, whenever possible, to screen recordings of performances in addition to discussing them as texts (including one of Julianne Moore playing ‘Mouth’ in Beckett’s Not I, which was really strange.)
Yea, that’s definitely an issue, but so many really experimental/difficult plays are rarely performed; I’d rather read them than have no knowledge of them at all. With that said, I took a great experimental theater class in college and the professor tried, whenever possible, to screen recordings of performances in addition to discussing them as texts (including one of Julianne Moore playing ‘Mouth’ in Beckett’s Not I, which was really strange.)
Play It As It Lays.
Speedboat by Renata Adler.
Play It As It Lays.
Speedboat by Renata Adler.
I’m with you on the casual wonder. It certainly didn’t keep me up last night. But it would be interesting to hear what different readers/writers associate with “experimental” writing. Me thinks it would vary widely.
I’m with you on the casual wonder. It certainly didn’t keep me up last night. But it would be interesting to hear what different readers/writers associate with “experimental” writing. Me thinks it would vary widely.
Something by William Carlos Williams perhaps – either Spring Is All or Paterson.
Something by William Carlos Williams perhaps – either Spring Is All or Paterson.
love Didion, especially Democracy. Nicholson Baker? something early like Mezzanine? Sebald (for the international class)? Or are these too ‘mainstream’ (still uncertain about the terms!)
love Didion, especially Democracy. Nicholson Baker? something early like Mezzanine? Sebald (for the international class)? Or are these too ‘mainstream’ (still uncertain about the terms!)
love Cane
love Cane
Really good point, Rachel. I think I’m gonna revise my previous inclination.
For the transnational course I have the following:
Alfred Jarry – Exploits and Opinions of Dr. Faustroll, Pataphysician (1911)
Gertrude Stein – Tender Buttons (1914)
Mina Loy – The Lost Lunar Baedeker (1923)
Georges Bataille – Story of the Eye (1928)
Max Ernst – Une Semaine De Bonte: A Surrealistic Novel in Collage (1934)
Antoin Artaud – The Theatre and its Double (1938)
Jorge Louis Borges – Fictions (1944)
All texts are from the first half of the 20th. And this is only one version, I keep fluxuating between a host of different options.
Really good point, Rachel. I think I’m gonna revise my previous inclination.
For the transnational course I have the following:
Alfred Jarry – Exploits and Opinions of Dr. Faustroll, Pataphysician (1911)
Gertrude Stein – Tender Buttons (1914)
Mina Loy – The Lost Lunar Baedeker (1923)
Georges Bataille – Story of the Eye (1928)
Max Ernst – Une Semaine De Bonte: A Surrealistic Novel in Collage (1934)
Antoin Artaud – The Theatre and its Double (1938)
Jorge Louis Borges – Fictions (1944)
All texts are from the first half of the 20th. And this is only one version, I keep fluxuating between a host of different options.
yes speedboat! i fucking love that book. it’s a companion for me to elizabeth hardwick’s sleepless nights.
yes speedboat! i fucking love that book. it’s a companion for me to elizabeth hardwick’s sleepless nights.
Stu – I tried to teach Nightwood, once, and it really went over student’s heads (it wasn’t a specialized course). Someone totally needs to come out with a reading companion to Nightwood, much like there is with Ulysses, and even Crying of Lot 49.
Nightwood is one of my favorite books of all time. Even though I don’t understand all of it.
Stu – I tried to teach Nightwood, once, and it really went over student’s heads (it wasn’t a specialized course). Someone totally needs to come out with a reading companion to Nightwood, much like there is with Ulysses, and even Crying of Lot 49.
Nightwood is one of my favorite books of all time. Even though I don’t understand all of it.
[…] 3, 2010 by A D Jameson Christopher Higgs at HTMLGIANT recently posted this question: “If you were teaching a class on American experimental fiction, what texts would you choose, […]
Hey, AD!
I just saw this! I have taught such a class before, and if I remember correctly, I used (or should have):
Brautigan–In Watermelon Sugar
Patchen–Sleepers Awake
Federman–Double or Nothing
Gass–In the Heart of the Heart of the Country
Barth–Lost in the Funhouse
Georgiana Peacher–Mary Stuart’s Ravishment Descending Time
Barthelme–Dead Father
Jim Chapman–In Candyland It’s Cool to Feed on Your Friends
maybe Kerouac’s Subterraneans
and maybe Cistern Tawdry (I’m not too proud to assign my own work).
Best wishes,
Eckhard
Hey, AD!
I just saw this! I have taught such a class before, and if I remember correctly, I used (or should have):
Brautigan–In Watermelon Sugar
Patchen–Sleepers Awake
Federman–Double or Nothing
Gass–In the Heart of the Heart of the Country
Barth–Lost in the Funhouse
Georgiana Peacher–Mary Stuart’s Ravishment Descending Time
Barthelme–Dead Father
Jim Chapman–In Candyland It’s Cool to Feed on Your Friends
maybe Kerouac’s Subterraneans
and maybe Cistern Tawdry (I’m not too proud to assign my own work).
Best wishes,
Eckhard
Hi, Eckhard! But WHERE ARE ALL THE WOMEN??????????????????????????????
Hi, Eckhard! But WHERE ARE ALL THE WOMEN??????????????????????????????
What do you think Georgiana Peacher is? But you are right. Add Kathy Acker, of course! I love Acker! Blood & Guts in High School or Don Quixote.
What do you think Georgiana Peacher is? But you are right. Add Kathy Acker, of course! I love Acker! Blood & Guts in High School or Don Quixote.
And Stein’s Tender Buttons. Acker, Stein and Peacher. That’s a powerful trio.
And Stein’s Tender Buttons. Acker, Stein and Peacher. That’s a powerful trio.
Salvador Plascencia–The People of Paper
Karen Tei Yamashita–Tropic of Orange
Stephen Graham Jones–All the Beautiful Sinners
Salvador Plascencia–The People of Paper
Karen Tei Yamashita–Tropic of Orange
Stephen Graham Jones–All the Beautiful Sinners
Doug Nufer, Never Again
traductortraductor
If you were teaching a class on American experimental fiction, what texts would you choose, and why? | HTMLGIANT