March 25th, 2009 / 5:09 pm
Contests
Play eShame and Win or Lose *UPDATED* **UPDATED**
I will probably laugh at you.
Do you know that game called “Shame,” in which participants name a book they haven’t read and if everybody else has read it the unreader gets a point? And whoever gets the most points is the winner but in real life the loser? How’s that go again? It’s really fun to play, right? Like, on car rides?
Anybody wanna play?
What you have to do is identify a book you haven’t read in the comments. We will play for a week, until noon on Wednesday, April 1. At that time, I and a crack team of librarians or something will determine the most egregious omission and award that neanderthal book prizes. So make sure you’re contactable, huh?
Be a philistine! I’ll start with something appropriate. I have never read anything by any Diane Williams. Oops. Do I win? Gosh, I hope not.
UPDATE
Ken Baumann is donating <i>No Colony</i> as awards for the top three winners. (This will be in addition to whatever other book things I had planned.) Thanks Ken. This is plenty wicked.
SECOND UPDATE
I should have made this clear at the beginning. Playing eShame Online 2009 does not require participants to respond to every other book posted by the other players, clarifying whether or not they read it. Of course, anyone CAN do that, but it won’t be taken into consideration when the voting occurs. Thanks okay wicked.
Tags: Shame game, who's dumber
LOLITA
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March 25th, 2009 / 8:02 pmKen Baumann—
Me too.
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March 26th, 2009 / 12:43 amMolly Gaudry—
Me three.
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March 26th, 2009 / 2:02 amjereme—
i read parts but not the book.
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March 26th, 2009 / 1:04 pmryan—
never read it either.
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i have good friends who will kick my butt for this: 1984
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March 25th, 2009 / 6:05 pmJimmy Chen—
me too.
haven’t read 1984 or Animal Farm.
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March 25th, 2009 / 6:35 pmryan—
i haven’t read AF either.
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March 26th, 2009 / 2:09 amjereme—
i think i read all of AF. i don’t know.
that’s the one where the pigs are yapping in russia right?
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March 26th, 2009 / 11:25 amPHM—
Wow.
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March 26th, 2009 / 6:34 pmjames yeh—
read AF but not 1984.
also, read AF only thinking it was an animal story, as opposed to a “communist parable story”. but i was like 8.
March 26th, 2009 / 2:03 amjereme—
read the beginning and the end but skipped the middle.
did the same with the movie. i <3 hurt.
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Huck Finn.
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March 26th, 2009 / 12:44 amMolly Gaudry—
Oh dear.
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March 26th, 2009 / 2:03 amjereme—
nope. tried to read it 4 times and stopped after about 40 pages each time.
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Adam: I’ll contribute and bump that to the top three submissions.
My omission: So many, but I’ll single out The Great Gatsby.
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March 25th, 2009 / 6:33 pmKen Baumann—
Ahh! Wait. I retract Gatsby and list CATCHER IN THE RYE.
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March 25th, 2009 / 6:34 pmdavidpeak—
that’s totally gonna win/lose
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March 26th, 2009 / 12:45 amMolly Gaudry—
What? Seriously? Wow. David’s right. Winner right here.
March 26th, 2009 / 2:04 amjereme—
never read gatsby.
read parts of RYE but not the whole thing. i only remember the part where he almost gets raped molested on the couch.
no clue what else happens in that book.
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March 26th, 2009 / 1:48 pmEllen Parker—
What part does he get molested on the couch?? You’re thinking of “Lolita.” And he’s a she.
March 26th, 2009 / 3:06 pmjereme—
ellen,
i read parts of CITR about 15 years ago and I (thought) I remembered a part where there is a gay kind of encounter when the kid is sleeping on the couch and he leaves the dudes house?
if that is not in the book fuck if I know what i was reading. maybe it was a stupid stephen king novel like IT.
March 26th, 2009 / 11:33 amPHM—
Woah.
Kids these days!
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March 26th, 2009 / 11:39 pmMolly Gaudry—
That happens mid-book, with the former teacher in the city. Holden falls asleep, I think, and wakes to the teacher caressing his hair.
March 27th, 2009 / 1:59 amjereme—
thank you molly. that is it. yes the couch and the hair touching and colden freaks out kind of.
i knew i wasn’t nuts.
The Bible
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March 26th, 2009 / 2:05 amjereme—
not even a passage from a page.
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March 26th, 2009 / 1:34 pmEllen Parker—
I took a class in college called “The Bible as Literature,” but i sat in the back and drew pictures.
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Goodnight Moon.
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March 25th, 2009 / 7:30 pmbryan coffelt—
you got this contest in the bag, i think. way to pull out the big guns.
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March 26th, 2009 / 2:05 amjereme—
never heard of it?
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March 26th, 2009 / 1:59 pmEllen Parker—
You must not have kids?
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March 26th, 2009 / 2:37 pmjereme—
i have an 11 year old.
he is in to greek mythology.
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the giver.
this is actually a pretty big deal among everyone I’ve met since 5th grade.
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March 26th, 2009 / 2:05 amjereme—
the giver sounds pornographic.
never heard of it.
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March 26th, 2009 / 11:25 amPHM—
You might read it sometime. I loved that book.
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catch-22
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March 25th, 2009 / 7:05 pmdarby—
also, on the road
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March 26th, 2009 / 2:06 amjereme—
oh you fuck head darby. i actually finished this book recently.
the entire thing. which is rare for me.
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March 26th, 2009 / 11:26 amPHM—
Missing out.
But Dharma Bums is better from that period.
And The Town and the City I consider to be his finest.
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March 26th, 2009 / 3:06 pmClapper—
I have to chime in because Madore and I rarely agree in public on anything. So mark your calendars. Dharma Bums is about a million times better than On the Road.
March 26th, 2009 / 2:06 amjereme—
nope.
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March 26th, 2009 / 8:41 pmbarry—
dharma bums? fuck no
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infinite jest
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March 26th, 2009 / 2:00 amjereme—
nope, nothing by dfw.
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March 26th, 2009 / 1:36 pmEllen Parker—
Me, neither, And now I feel guilty because he’s dead.
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March 26th, 2009 / 6:35 pmjames yeh—
no infinite jest for me either
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grapes of wrath.
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March 26th, 2009 / 2:00 amjereme—
this one i keep meaning to read but no.
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Lord of the Flies
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March 26th, 2009 / 1:59 amjereme—
nope.
what grade was i supposed to read this in?
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March 26th, 2009 / 11:40 pmMolly Gaudry—
5th? 6th?
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March 27th, 2009 / 1:41 amjereme—
well i’m trying to remember. 5th grade i was in Orange County and in the excelerated reading class and we didn’t touch it.
6th grade i moved up to portland and stopped caring about life.
so maybe 6th grade. that would make sense. that’s when i started living in parks and then motel rooms and then vacant houses with no furniture and only an igloo ice chest to keep a pack of hotdogs cold which was dinner every god damn night.
i remember not having electricity a lot. maybe thats why i never read it.
Slaughterhouse-Five
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March 26th, 2009 / 1:59 amjereme—
read the back of the book cover and got bored.
me either.
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No Colony Vol. 69
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green eggs and ham
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March 26th, 2009 / 1:57 amjereme—
i saw the animated movie.
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March 26th, 2009 / 10:43 amNathan Tyree—
me too
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anything by DFW
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March 26th, 2009 / 1:57 amjereme—
i read blurbs on blake’s blog?
he’s on my list to read but not read.
so me too.
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hi great post thank you for the information!
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March 26th, 2009 / 8:51 amAdam Robinson—
Haha.
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Heart of Darkness
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March 26th, 2009 / 1:56 amjereme—
who the fuck wrote this?
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March 26th, 2009 / 11:28 amPHM—
Conrad.
I tried to read it when I was supposed to. I should have cheated off someone. Anyway I just took an F or something instead because I couldn’t tolerate the tone of the book.
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so if i read part of it and got bored or spilled beer or did drugs during the reading of it and lost the book does it still count as did read or did not read?
i am going to win. i will amaze every one at my lack of commitment towards reading and life in general.
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March 26th, 2009 / 2:07 amjereme—
i am a retard. i am okay with it.
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March 26th, 2009 / 8:52 amAdam Robinson—
I think to qualify as having read a book you have to read at least 90% of the words in it.
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March 26th, 2009 / 11:55 amjereme—
Okay well then I am king retard thus far.
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shit i tried to read but got really fucking bored with and didn’t finish:
Naked Lunch
All Mark Twain
All Vonnegut
All Lorrie Moore
EEE EEE EEE by Tao Lin (i skipped to the end)
Tropic of Cancer/Capricorn
Swimming to Cambodia (i do love spalding grey. i lost the book in opiate crazed antics).
Ham on Rye (lost this book too.)
there are lots others. i think i will wait for people to post their picks and leech on to them.
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March 26th, 2009 / 2:25 amjereme—
oh any and all cormac mccarthy. i bought but have not read yet.
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March 26th, 2009 / 11:42 amryan—
i haven’t read any tarmac maccarthy either
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March 26th, 2009 / 1:05 pmryan—
everything on that list… except Twain, i’ve read Huck Finn and Tom Sawyer.
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March 26th, 2009 / 1:37 pmEllen Parker—
jereme, are there any book that you have actually finished?
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March 26th, 2009 / 1:51 pmEllen Parker—
Books, I mean.
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March 26th, 2009 / 3:00 pmjereme—
i typically read only 3 types of books:
poetry
technical manuals
philosophy/psychology
i guess that makes me a shitty person right? the fact i get bored by the words others find sincere? i am asking. please let me know.
what books or novels have i finished?
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March 27th, 2009 / 2:16 amRyan Call—
you are good
March 27th, 2009 / 3:01 pmEllen Parker—
What poetry have you read? Which poets do you like?
March 28th, 2009 / 12:23 amjereme—
ellen,
i have read a lot of poetry. i don’t know how to answer that. i am very open minded.
what i like?
pessoa, lorca, hafez, bukowski, li po, rumi
others too.
today i went to the university library and read poems from ancient japan because i did not want to come home and be alone and sad within my head.
i read a really good poem about a shackled horse. it was in the kojiki i think
or maybe it was from the nihongi. i forget.
it doesn’t matter anyways.
March 26th, 2009 / 11:41 pmMolly Gaudry—
Breakfast of Champions? You couldn’t get through that? This and Slapstick, I think, are good intros to Vonnegut.
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March 27th, 2009 / 1:44 amjereme—
molly,
i get bored very easy. i typically will read 4 or 5 books at once but i will only finish the one book i am not bored with.
sorry i am a disappointment as a literate human being.
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i think if any one has not read ‘where the wild things are’ by sendak that it would be a good pick. even i read that during my shitty abuse ridden child hood.
hurry before the damn movie comes out. has any one not read that?
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that one book by kerouac that everyone reads in high school.
i’ve also never read any hunter s. thompson.
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March 26th, 2009 / 2:31 amjereme—
daniel,
you are supposed to read kerouac in high school? i had no idea.
what book is it? on the road?
yes, while i love thompson, i must admit i have only finished ‘hells angels’.
all the others got lost before completion.
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March 26th, 2009 / 11:37 amPHM—
Yeah we did On The Road. I had already read it a few times and was in the throes of reading Town and the City. So I had like a week or two or whatever of free time in English class because I could do all the related work.
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so, how the points are assigned. people say what they read and what they havent from what other people say they’ve read. something like that i guess…
read: catcher, animal farm, huck finn (fuck you jereme for not reading twain), gatsby, green eggs and ham, tropic of cancer / capricorn (again jereme), heart of darkness, the bible, where the wild things are, lord of the flies, on the road.
shit i tried to read but was bored to death: slaughterhouse five, blood meridian, grapes of wrath, catch 22, naked lunch
shit i will be reading soon but haven’t yet: infinite jest, lorrie moore, no colony 69
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March 26th, 2009 / 12:01 pmjereme—
barry,
you are one of my favs. i am going to kill you near the end when i finally snap.
coming sooooonnnnn.
i have tried to read twain. he snores me to cock punching. henry miller i liked in small doses but got really bored and stopped.
some test defined me as a person who gets really bored by theory, school learning, reading etc.
which is true. i do. i would rather do the shit than gum flap about it.
so am i supposed to post what i have read? it is going to be a very, very long list of poetry and comic books plus some really great porn titles from the 80’s like “beat your meat with old men”.
i have not lied once thus far. uhg fucking darby and ‘on the road’. why did i read that. i could have won!
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March 26th, 2009 / 1:15 pmbarry—
no. i think you are suppose to list a book you havent read. one that you think everyone else has. i.e gatsby, catcher
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Jereme dean is not provocative. I don’t feel provoked by him. I feel like he’s lost touch with reality if Ham On Rye didn’t hold his attention. Maybe he should try kittens in the boiler or something.
Anyway, I’ve never read Shakespeare.
Any.
Like I hated it so much I skipped class to get away from it.
Maybe I win.
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March 26th, 2009 / 12:07 pmjereme—
wow i don’t know if i am supposed to be offended by this or not.
i am not provocative like you don’t want to pull up my satin dress, bend me over and fuck me? i am cool with that.
i am not being contrary. i am being truthful.
something most of you smiling leeches fear and avoid.
and by smiling leeches i am referring to you specifically.
hahaha no i am referring to 95% of society. i think i am being generous with that percentage.
paul, i think your name is paul?, is your name paul PHM?
i forget. whatever. i am calling you paul.
Ham on Rye did hold my attention but i lost it half way between reading it.
my reality and your reality are very different. i may or may not have a grasp on reality. who cares.
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March 26th, 2009 / 1:07 pmryan—
i thought he was FHM’s sister company.
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March 26th, 2009 / 1:44 pmEllen Parker—
You’ve never read Shakespeare? I am not fucking talking to you anymore. God! You win here, hands down. Pick up a fucking copy of Hamlet and try to lip read your way through it. Jezuz. Take a fucking class.
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March 26th, 2009 / 2:45 pmjereme—
i read romeo and juliet and julius caeser or whatever that one was called.
i liked it. just never revisited.
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March 26th, 2009 / 4:32 pmPHM—
Are you being serious? Why does that upset you? Shakespeare was a plagiarist. I found that out while justifying not liking his unrelative-to-anything bullshit.
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March 26th, 2009 / 5:07 pmjereme—
paul you don’t find it ironic you think shakes is a plagiarist but you’ve never actually read his work to determine if he really is?
March 27th, 2009 / 2:59 pmEllen Parker—
WHAT!?!?!?! I just read this and now I’m going ballistic. Why would he want to plagiarize anybody? He has been the best writer in the fucking world for 3,000 years. What, you think he was like, Ooo, I am going to steal this guy’s shit becuase it’s soooooo much better than anything I could do?
Why do you think he was a plagiarist? Because he “borrowed” plots? Yeah, he did. But no one reads him for his plots!
jereme:
yeah, i feel you about henry miller. i only liked tropic of cancer. capricorn and black springs bored me kind of. but cancer was brilliant in some parts. some parts redundant.
twain. i dont know. i just fucking love twain. he is the grandaddy of american storytelling. contemporary american lit today exists as we know it today because of twain. yeah, i went there.
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March 26th, 2009 / 1:41 pmEllen Parker—
Henry Miller is dead boring, but “Huckleberry Finn” is great. Some of Twain’s other shit is silly, tho.
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March 26th, 2009 / 1:59 pmbarry—
i like silly.
really? no henry miller?
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March 26th, 2009 / 2:02 pmEllen Parker—
I cannot get into Henry Miller. I’ve tried. I think he’s a “guy” writer. Chicks don’t get it. Which book of his do you like the best?
March 26th, 2009 / 1:52 pmNathan Tyree—
Everything after Twain, but pre-Vonnegut is due to Twain. Since Vonnegut, I think he has become the main inspiration of modern fic.
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March 26th, 2009 / 1:57 pmbarry—
vonnegut bores me to tears. what has he inspired?
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March 26th, 2009 / 5:33 pmNathan Tyree—
telegraphic story telling; verbal hiccups; blending of genre with literary themes- a great example of a writer who is heavily inspired by Vonnegut is Palahniuk.
I loved Vonnegut.
March 26th, 2009 / 8:55 pmNathan (Nate) Tyree—
By the by, when you say that Vonnegut bores you, is it really boredom, or annoyance? I could see being annoyed by his self indulgence, but he’s such an easy read, boredom seems strange.
What I like about him is the ability to experiment, to break the idea of the novel. I see his best work (Breakfast of Champions, Slaughterhouse Five) in the same tradition as Finnegan’s Wake and Pale Fire. Maybe I’m biased because I read him as a kid, so I imprinted on his style(s).
I’ve never read any of jereme’s comments.
What do I win?
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March 26th, 2009 / 1:56 pmEllen Parker—
I think JereME is hilarious, tho. I like the way he spells “fuck head.” (Two words.)
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March 26th, 2009 / 2:53 pmjereme—
i am not sure if you are being mean or not.
i don’t really care.
i like you too fuck head.
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March 27th, 2009 / 2:52 pmEllen Parker—
You know you care!
I’m never mean.
March 28th, 2009 / 9:27 pmEllen Parker—
To that I say: ha ha.
March 26th, 2009 / 3:15 pmClapper—
I’m confused as to how Jereme wound up on HTMLGiant. Or at AWP. Or in a cab with me.
Maybe it’s the poetry. I don’t know shit about poetry.
Aha! There’s my book I haven’t read that everyone else had: anything by Emily DIckinson.
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March 26th, 2009 / 3:34 pmjereme—
you and me both dave.
uhg.
i am sorry. i bet you feel dirty now knowing i sullied the literary aryan bloodline by interloping at AWP and your internet destinations.
i should lie and say all my previous comments are lies that way i will be accepted and loved and things i write will be thought of seriously.
i mean me being exactly like the rest of you is the only way i could possibly have anything valid or worthy to say right?
fuck please accept me.
March 26th, 2009 / 3:40 pmClapper—
No, I just couldn’t figure out why the fuck you WANTED to be part of any scene involving writing. You sure don’t seem to LIKE it.
March 26th, 2009 / 3:54 pmjereme—
here dave, i will say i am sorry. i think ellen got me in passive aggressive mode. so ignore my assholery up above.
i don’t want to be part of ANY scene really.
i went to awp to meet like 3 people and buy 3 books. that was my goal. my goal is what i did.
i like writing. maybe not YOUR version of writing. writing/reading is a personal experience to me. i would not continue to eat a dinner i felt tasted bad so why would i finish books i find boring?
i guess the answer is because i am supposed to? because i will be shit on by others if i don’t?
did you ever hear me discuss anything literary with other people? no one asked me either. it is okay with me. it is okay if you do ask. i will give you my honest opinion filled with sarcasm.
this is an online open discussion. i would engage in the same manner in person with you too. i’m sure you’d feel much more superior in person. or maybe not.
your existence and my existence are two paths. i mean how do you not know anything about poetry?
that seems really queer to me.
it is okay with me.
why can i not be different and still accepted?
March 26th, 2009 / 5:23 pmgena—
i don’t consider myself a part of any of these bullshit writing scenes either, but i went to awp too. i can’t go to a foreign city and enjoy myself and meet people that i thought i would like (but ended up being disappointed with [most, at least])?
March 27th, 2009 / 2:54 pmEllen Parker—
You oughta be ashamed of yourself for never reading Emily Dickinson. I read some of her poems (aloud, in front of people!) at my dad’s funeral. I still have the pages marked.
March 27th, 2009 / 4:12 pmClapper—
Gena, of course you can go to another city and engage in the whole literary thang. I thought it was pretty damned cool that you did, in fact. The difference between you and Jereme, in the limited exposure I had to the two of you? You seemed interested in writing, Jereme seemed interested in dropping the names of TV stars he works near and calling them assholes. Maybe they ARE assholes, but it doesn’t make for very interesting conversation, especially when surrounded by people who ARE talking about things that are interesting (Mike Young, Ryan Call, Dan Wickett, Matt Bell, Molly Gaudry, Blythe Winslow, Blake Butler, Adam Robinson, to name just a very, very few).
March 28th, 2009 / 12:13 amjereme—
Dave,
I am really sorry I ruined part of your awp experience.
regards.
March 26th, 2009 / 2:54 pmjereme—
a lot of unwasted time to waste on something else.
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April 1st, 2009 / 5:00 pmgena—
dave,
i don’t remember talking about anything literary at all. i am not even a literary person, really. i am insulted by what you said above. how dare you speak of a friend of mine in that way? someone that actually writes HONEST things instead of attempting to write like tao lin about their uninteresting day in a stoic yet “interesting” manner.
did we even meet? i remember being in molly’s room with you, but i was a little drunk. i don’t remember ever talking to you. i don’t even know who the hell you are, besides another pretentious (so it seems) writer. in the room, all i really remember doing was singing along to songs on my cell phone; one in particular—”gotta listen to your big time, hard line, bad luck, FIST FUCK!” i don’t think that’s very literary.
how dare you all put down people who aren’t like you. how the fuck am i “accepted”, but jereme dean isn’t? i am a 17-year-old girl who isn’t even in school at the moment. do you accept me because i’m “nice” to people? well, i can be mean too. actually, i will just be honest:
fuck all of you who put down others because they don’t fit in. this isn’t fucking middle school. it’s funny that the people who don’t have all these fancy degrees are more honest and less pretentious than the people who have them.
your degrees don’t mean shit to me. fuck you.
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April 1st, 2009 / 5:24 pmPHM—
what the fuck is this acceptance bullshit? why are you constantly playing the age and gender game? that’s the only truly annoying thing about you. i don’t know about this acceptance bullshit, because unless you’re talking about submissions being accepted, in which case you’re sort of on the right track (why would the community publish your shit when you don’t honestly give a fuck about the community?), it doesn’t appear to be relevant to the discussion at all. worse than all of this, you fail to even acknowledge that your precious and apparently dear friend jereme dean is intentionally not only baiting people here but doing so on the momentum of having been a dick at every possible moment in the past and likely hereafter. the hereafter part only remains to be seen, so i’m sort of arguing that his annoyance factor is increased by the fact that he’s not likely to change. regardless, i think you’re annoying, and people like you are at least as annoying. and i don’t mean young, because you were only born a few years after me. that’s not what i mean at all. i mean people who get recognition in any form without putting forth any effort; people who are all gimmicks (i’m a young girl who drinks with adults on camera in chicago! ha! i’m only seventeen! be nice to/respect me just because!) oh and don’t ever dare ask you to be serious about anything for a minute. you know i’m tired of pretending things don’t matter to me which do. foremost, writing. online writing seems to be the best these days, but not in an exclusive way. so you dropped out of school? is that your next big thing? oh gena, it was really nothing.
April 2nd, 2009 / 4:15 pmClapper—
Victim, victim, victim. Boring. Next.
Gravity’s Rainbow. I read the first few pages and then skimmed the other thousand pages in, like, three minutes.
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March 26th, 2009 / 2:52 pmryan—
never read any pynchon
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March 26th, 2009 / 2:56 pmEllen Parker—
I’m thinking, Pynchy, we could edit this sucker by HALF. Maybe even three-fourths. Fifteen-sixteenths. It could be a pamphlet.
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March 26th, 2009 / 3:37 pmryan—
just from looking at the page counts of any of his books i kind of feel that way.
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March 26th, 2009 / 8:58 pmNathan (Nate) Tyree—
I never finished it. I tried like hell, but kept getting lost. Someday I will finish that damned book. I swear I will. The thing is, I liked the first hundred pages, then just got caught in the eddies…
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jereme,
wanna cuddle?
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ryan, yes actually i do. see. that’s all i wanted.
hey adam robinson,
can we play eshame volume 2 and post pay check stubs?
it is just as childish as this game. i think it would be easier to shame rank people too.
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March 26th, 2009 / 4:05 pmryan—
jereme,
i know.
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March 26th, 2009 / 5:05 pmAdam Robinson—
Yeah sure.
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March 26th, 2009 / 5:15 pmjereme—
i like you adam.
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March 26th, 2009 / 6:12 pmAdam Robinson—
I’m going to take that to mean that you like me. Thanks!
March 26th, 2009 / 6:20 pmjereme—
eh i changed my mind now.
I think Jereme Dean likes the thoughts in his own angry head than he does any on paper from the past 500 years or so.
You’d think he would be really into Bukowski, because the way he talks about writing is pretty much the same way Bukowski did. He never thought anything he could read was much better than what he could write, but he did understandably respect Knut Hamsun.
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March 26th, 2009 / 5:03 pmjereme—
paul why don’t you just talk directly to me?
i do like bukowski. when did i say i didn’t like bukowski? i have read/owned all of his published poetry books.
i gave them all away like all of my poetry books
i am fond of lorca and pessoa over bukowski.
paulie can you clarify something for me?
if i write the angry thoughts in my head and transcribe them to paper do I know like the written angry thoughts more than other writings or do i prefer the newly formed angry thoughts about writing the once loved angry thoughts on paper?
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March 26th, 2009 / 5:04 pmjereme—
uhg, sorry it is hard to write somewhat coherent and work at the same time.
if i take the angry thoughts in my head and transcibe them to paper do i now like the written angry thoughts more than other writings or do i prefer the newly formed angry thoughts about writing the once loved angry thoughts on paper?
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March 26th, 2009 / 6:46 pmPHM—
I don’t think I have an answer for Jereme Dean’s question.
I won’t engage Jereme Dean directly because I haven’t seen much good come from anyone doing that. I find him hard to comprehend, but not because he is intellectually superior, which he is, but more because I don’t understand the intentions behind him always being contrary. “Tao Lin bores me,” is an admirably contrary thing to say, but I feel that if any writer among us were as highly respected, excepting of course Jereme Dean, then Jereme Dean would say things like that. I think him and Blake Butler and Mary Miller will have their differences. I don’t even think it’s jealousy–I think it’s baser than that. It’s been a long time since I’ve even thought anything about Jereme Dean except “fuck Jereme Dean, who is Jereme Dean?” It’s some mutation of arrogance that drives Jereme Dean. I find myself wondering the same thing Dave Clapper was, and that won’t be said very often in my life: what is Jereme Dean doing here? Why is he so hateful?
And am I just talking out of my ass?
Probably.
I sometimes have conversations about this htmlgiant thing and what I think it could be. I think it could be a slashdot for less-commercial lit if it wanted to be, but I don’t thin it set out with any such mission. Thus I think the community that has sprung up around it gets a perverted sense of importance, perhaps even unto myself, in that we all feel much more important to letters than we actually are. And Jereme Dean is less an exception than I am in this regard. Would he say these things to people’s faces? I for one would be humbled to meet Tao Lin, more because he’s managed to make writing into more than a hobby, and I’d want to learn from him. I wouldn’t look him in the face and tell him his book bored me, even if it did, out of respect. Maybe that would come up later, I don’t know.
And I’m not saying we need some kind of hierarchy or old-school system of respect, but I feel like there are certain people here who’d be better off without htmlgiant to make them look stupid.
Now me, people dislike me anyway, so I think I benefit from having an open forum (as opposed to Zoetrope) to engage literary minds. I kind of wish it was more open and oriented. I kind of wish htmlgiant was more like Bookslut.
That is all I have to ramble for now.
I hope someday to regain interest in Jereme Dean’s writing. Maybe he’ll pop up somewhere that I read anyway.
Paul
March 27th, 2009 / 1:46 amjereme—
hahaha add paul’s comment to my list of shit i got bored with and stopped reading.
++++ points for me.
Missing word: “more.”
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never read shakespeare. wrote papers about shakespeare, but never read him.
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March 26th, 2009 / 9:01 pmNathan (Nate) Tyree—
That’s kind of sad. I don’t mean that in a cruel way. Hamlet is possibly the greatest thing ever written. Harold Bloom’s deconstruction of Hamlet comes in second. Of course, I’m a nobody, but that’s my opinion. Please read Hamlet.
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March 27th, 2009 / 1:53 amjereme—
i will try to read hamlet nate. you convinced me.
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March 28th, 2009 / 1:47 pmNathan (Nate) Tyree—
thank you
March 27th, 2009 / 2:46 pmEllen Parker—
Drew, this is terrible. I mean it. Maybe just read a few of his sonnets? You cannot continue in our life unless you read Shakespeare.
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March 27th, 2009 / 2:47 pmEllen Parker—
Your life, I mean. It’s your life. You must continue it, and it must not be Shakespeareless.
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March 27th, 2009 / 3:04 pmEllen Parker—
I hate that you can’t edit your posts after you’ve made them. This, for me, is dangerous and leads to many Freudian slips.
PRETENTIOUS PAUL
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was assigned “as i lay dying” by william faulker 3 times: in high school, in college, in graduate school. 100 pages the first time, 120 the second, maybe even less the third.
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March 26th, 2009 / 8:52 pmbarry—
same here.
funny thing is, we can still get A’s on the papers. amen.
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March 26th, 2009 / 9:11 pmNathan (Nate) Tyree—
I only made two attempts at As I Lay Dying.
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March 26th, 2009 / 11:46 pmMolly Gaudry—
Oh, this one’s worth the effort to get to the end.
(Am I mis-remembering? Isn’t there a fish that gets a pov, too? Can’t be. What the hell am I thinking of?)
March 27th, 2009 / 1:58 amjames yeh—
there is no fish POV, molly
the single sentence “my mother is a fish” does get its own chapter though.
nate:
using chuck p as a positive example of vonneguts influence doesnt help your argument.
“telegraphic story telling; verbal hiccups; blending of genre with literary themes” these didnt happen before vonnegut? come on now nate.
ph madore:
tao lin is your example of a writer who is highly respected?
lots of people on this site state that certain writers bore them, why are you just picking out jereme for doing it? and he listed lots of writers who bore him, why are you just sticking up for tao lin?
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March 26th, 2009 / 9:10 pmNathan (Nate) Tyree—
Barry:
Yeah- you are right. Chuck is hit or miss. I think Survivor was great, Fight Club was quite good, choke was interesting, and the rest kind of sucked (although I like his essays). As to the rest, it happened, but I think Vonnegut made these things mainstream. So often as I’m reading the hawt new book by the hawt new writer I start thinking that I can hear Vonnegut in their style. Still, though, it’s all a matter of interpretation. I still think that you are right about Twain. Finn was the book that got me interested in writing. I guess what I love about Vonnegut is his ability to experiment (I said this higher up, before I saw your reply here)- I like the idea of the anti-novel. Timequake was amazing in it’s attempt (but ultimately a failure), Breakfast of Champions and Slaughter-House Five rank (in my very humble opinion) with Finnegan’s Wake and Pale Fire as books that toss out convention and reach greatness in odd ways.
Mea Culpa, I liked Danielewski’s House of Leaves too.
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March 26th, 2009 / 9:40 pmbarry—
indeed. im not really denying he was great…. just the extent of his influence. but yeah, he’s a helluva writer.
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March 26th, 2009 / 9:47 pmNathan (Nate) Tyree—
Barry:
Genuine curiosity here, what do you think of Martin Amis? I’m so torn. Either he’s a genius, or a self indulgent poseur, and I just can’t figure it out.
March 27th, 2009 / 2:50 pmEllen Parker—
To Nate (above):
Martin Amis: self-indulgent poseur. Unless you ask HIM. Then he’ll say, Genius.
March 26th, 2009 / 9:20 pmKen Baumann—
What I think about when I think about Vonnegut: A detached sense of irony and deadpan, painful humor (that is incredibly prevalent, now, and probably wouldn’t have been if not for KV) & compassion, compassion, compassion.
I feel greatly influenced by Vonnegut’s storytelling and life. Great man.
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March 26th, 2009 / 9:21 pmKen Baumann—
Umm, yeah. I agree with myself. Mostly.
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March 26th, 2009 / 9:27 pmNathan (Nate) Tyree—
yes and yes
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March 26th, 2009 / 9:41 pmbarry—
yes.
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March 26th, 2009 / 10:59 pmdrew—
after the animorphs, vonnegut made me love literature.
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March 27th, 2009 / 2:49 pmEllen Parker—
I agree.
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March 27th, 2009 / 4:07 pmClapper—
Another yes.
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March 26th, 2009 / 9:23 pmKen Baumann—
Also.
Adam?
Pack my prize now, baby, cuz Catcher In The Rye totally deserves it.
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March 27th, 2009 / 11:29 amAdam Robinson—
I don’t want to tip my hand, but yeah, you’re right so far.
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March 27th, 2009 / 1:51 amjereme—
barry,
eh i am actually surprised paul isn’t drinking excessively and saying horrible things to gena like he normally does.
he can pick on me. i didn’t read his last comment.
anyways, i am curious why does every one bash chuck p?
because of his success or what?
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March 27th, 2009 / 9:38 ambarry—
i am proud of chuck p’s success. i am happy for him. any time a writer gains success from their literary efforts i applaud them. i just dont think his writing is any good. im not bashing the man, im just saying i dont like the writing.
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April 2nd, 2009 / 10:30 ambr—
i think jereme because chuck p became one of those artists/writers who was known for one thing and then he eventually morphed into being a caricature of himself. he just pushes the shit out now and it’s terrible. i did like fight club and one other book. now i can’t read two sentences from him. also i think because he puts forth a certain image of himself as this “renegade” or whatever, he once said something about how people need to get hit more often in life and how getting hit in the face isn’t too bad, basic posturing, but then chuck p. is himself a frail little guy who likes wearing old man sweaters. but even above all this, his fans are assholes. it’s one thing to have rabid fans. it’s another thing for your fans to be middle-aged white collar bros who think that your book is their salvation from suburban ennui. or teenage loners who think that starting underground clubs will put hair on their chests.
nate:
the only thing i ever read of his is MONEY and it felt like a satire to me maybe, and im not really into satires. what do you recommend?
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March 26th, 2009 / 10:58 pmdrew—
i read time’s arrow by amis. i liked it. didn’t blow me away but it was decent.
ken baumann: i think i deserve it for hamlet. catcher isn’t that great, although it is probably one of the few books a majority of teenagers actually read at some point.
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March 28th, 2009 / 9:30 pmEllen Parker—
Same deal with me. I read Time’s Arrow. A clever gimmick. Sort of amusing. C’est tout.
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March 27th, 2009 / 9:43 amNathan Tyree—
London Fields and Dead babies were both great. Times Arrow and The Information seemed self indulgent. I liked Night Train, but can’t put my finger on why.
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March 27th, 2009 / 2:32 pmbarry—
maybe i’ll read a few more. maybe i just started with the wrong one.
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March 28th, 2009 / 1:49 pmNathan (Nate) Tyree—
London Fields is, I think, the place to start.
How to Talk About Books You Haven’t Read by Pierre Bayard
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actually i think madore deserves this one for shakespearre. not because – oh how dare he never read it – but because he’s then ridiculous enough to critize the writing after he admitted having never read it.
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March 28th, 2009 / 9:30 pmEllen Parker—
I’m with ya. He gets the prize.
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“Maybe they ARE assholes, but it doesn’t make for very interesting conversation, especially when surrounded by people who ARE talking about things that are interesting (Mike Young, Ryan Call, Dan Wickett, Matt Bell, Molly Gaudry, Blythe Winslow, Blake Butler, Adam Robinson, to name just a very, very few).”
hahahahahahaha. seriously? ha.
also, i consider a book “read” if i make it through a quarter of it. if it doesn’t hold my attention after that: fuck it. and i’d say the vast majority of the time it doesn’t. so fucking what?
catcher in the rye is the best book ever written. i can pick that shit up any day of the week and laugh my ass off. turn to any page: entertainment! same with bukowski. sam pink. etc.
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April 3rd, 2009 / 2:50 pmClapper—
Yeah, seriously. You’d rather talk about what TV stars are assholes than, I don’t know, Mary Miller’s book?
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also: “someone that actually writes HONEST things instead of attempting to write like tao lin about their uninteresting day in a stoic yet “interesting” manner.” amen!
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this is one of the few HTML Giant posts I never bothered opening, only doing so after seeing Gena’s link to it from another thread. Given the sweet carnage here, that should garner me a vote or two.
I’ve never finished any Dostoevsky or Tolstoy (and had to Google the former to spell here). I still believe the book was originally called, “War, What is it Good For?”
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