Contests
The HTMLGIANT 20 Under 40 Pick ‘Em Contest
Last week The New York Observer reported that on June 7th The New Yorker will name the top twenty American writers under forty, and we’d like to celebrate this really incredibly important event in the history of American letters by running a free March Madness-style Pick ‘Em contest for you HTMLGIANT readers. If you’d like to enter, all you have to do is email to htmlgiant [at] htmlgiant [dot] com your list of the twenty authors you think The New Yorker will select as “the key writers of this generation.” Then we all wait with baited breath until The New Yorker publishes their list! The top three entrants who have the most picks that correctly match the names on The New Yorker list will each receive a prize package. Should you wish to pay an ‘entry fee,’ please consider making a donation to any of the presses/publishers/people who have put up swag for the prize package; however, there is no requirement for an entry fee.
Details after the jump.
Deadline for this contest is 11:59pm on Tuesday, June 1st. We will only consider entries via email; any entries in the comments section will be ignored. Shit-talking in the comment section, however, is encouraged. If The New Yorker staff announces the list before we expect it, or if the list is leaked beforehand, then we can only fairly honor those entries that come in before that time. Point tally ties will be broken according to which list was received earliest. This contest is open to everyone; however, because most of the prizes come from within the United States, out-of-towners will have to risk figuring out international shipping arrangements on their own dime. Sorry! We can work it out somehow!
Many thanks to the people/presses/magazines who have donated prizes; if you want to add something, you’re welcome to contact us via email or ask away in the comments section.
The prizes, which we’ve jumbled into three prize packages from which the winner and two runners-up will choose, include the following:
Package 1
Pigafetta is My Wife by Joe Hall (Black Ocean)
Firework by Eugene Marten (Tyrant Books)
1 year subscription to New York Tyrant
Baby Leg by Brian Evenson (Tyrant Books)
1 issue of The Lifted Brow
Bird Any Damn Kind by Lucas Farrell (Caketrain)
Ghost Machine by Ben Mirov (Caketrain)
Light Boxes by Shane Jones (Penguin)
The Failure Six by Shane Jones (Fugue State Press)
During My Nervous Breakdown I Want To Have A Biographer Present by Brandon Scott Gorrell (Muumuu House)
Shoplifting From American Apparel by Tao Lin (Melville House Publishing)
Bed by Tao Lin (Melville House Publishing)
Package 2
Pigafetta is My Wife by Joe Hall (Black Ocean)
God Damsel by Reb Livingston (NoTell Books)
PERSONATIONSKIN by Karl Parker (NoTell Books)
$50 to Amazon.com
An Island of Fifty by Ben Brooks (mlpress)
The Hour: A Cocktail Manifesto by Bernard DeVeto (Tin House Books)
Rasskazy: New Fiction from a New Russia edited by Mikhail Iossel and Jeff Parker (Tin House Books)
OK, Goodnight by Emily Kendal Frey and Zachary Schomburg (Future Tense Books)
Put Your Head In My Lap by Claudia Smith (Future Tense Books)
1 year subscription to NANO Fiction
latest print issue of Juked
Package 3
The Fires by Nick Antosca (Impetus Press)
Midnight Picnic by Nick Antosca (Word Riot)
1 year subscription to Barrelhouse
Mr. T In Your Pocket keychain
Tin House issues 40 and 42
Ugly Man by Dennis Cooper (Harper Perennial)
World Takes by Tim Waldron (Word Riot)
The Drunk Sonnets by Daniel Bailey (Magic Helicopter Press)
We Were Eternal and Gigantic by Evelyn Hampton (Magic Helicopter Press)
Less Shiny by Mary Miller (Magic Helicopter Press)
1 issue of Artifice Magazine
5.5″ by 3.5″ lined Moleskine
Bonus Prize Package
Publishing Genius will send to the worst entry books from the six writers who are 40 and up in the PG catalog.
If you have any questions, let us know.
(detail illustration from Animal Acts by Helen Eady)
Tags: 20 under 40, new yorker
Isn’t this sort of validating the A.D. Jameson post at Bigother you guys linked to the other day?
Sort of reminds me of one of those articles about “America’s Youngest Millionaires” and that sort of thing.
Who cares how old they are or if there are 20 of them.
I see it more like having fun with what the establishment is already doing, but yeah, it does of course reinforce that mentality, too.
Publishing Genius will send to the worst entry books from the six writers who are 40 and up in the PG catalog.
Is that okay Ryan or too confusing?
But that mentality has already co-opted every other part of our society, do we really want it to infiltrate the arts (literature in this case) also? I mean, the “top 20” thing is what MSN and David Letterman use to get eyeballs to sell their products. And I have seen a number of these hot youth lists, but never a “hottest writers over 70” or something like that.
I mean, the establishment has pretty well fucked up the world, why play into their hands?
Damn, I was going to ignore this, but that’s a shitload of stuff I would like to read! Argh. Still don’t think I’ll do it, as I’m completely out of touch w/ whoever it is that the New Yorker considers good writesr. . . .
Also, I think it’s “bated breath.”
seems like a ‘big’ fuss. seems like they’ll just write ‘Tao Lin’ ~20x.
Made a long list of possibilites, only to find out most of them miss the age cut-off date by 2-3 years, or are Canadian and I didn’t know it.
[…] is running a contest, similar to an Oscar poll, in which readers guess the winners and win some rilly good […]
Doubtful that Tao Lin will make it onto the radar. It will likely be Jonathans and Zadies a-go-go.
We’re running an alternate contest on We Who Are About to Die. The 20 rising stars of indie lit. No age bracket.
You can play here: http://bit.ly/bwFjPJ
YOU HAVE BEEN INFILTRATED
ZZZZZ
i think youre right, but i just linked to whatever Lmagazine said: “America’s best young writers are waiting with baited breath for final word about the New Yorker’s Summer Fiction double-issue”
brendan, makes sense i guess. i didnt think beyond ‘oh this might be fun to do’
adam, ill put yours on the list
I’m not sure I’d conflate “lists” with “the establishment”
You know what’s more relevant? How about the top 20 Basketball Players under the age of 18. That’s about a step above the top 20 writers under 40.
And you guys are so full of shit. You pretend like it’s all just a joke, that it doesn’t mean anything, but Blake Butler, Justin Taylor, Matthew Simmons and Tao Lin all want nothing more than to be on a list like this, and I’m sure they did everything they could to get on it.
really lincoln?
what purpose does a list have?
it is always a form of control, to some degree, i think.
Seems to make sense to pick young people if the point of the list is writers to watch. The idea is, these are people they think will be read by NYer readers for decades to come (obviously largely self-fulfilled*). There are all kinds of top 10 or 20 lists. Sometimes it is who people think will win Nobel prizes. These lists are filled with people who are past mid-career, so lots in their 60s and 70s or even 80s. Lists of best books of the year tend to have a range of ages because for that, age is immaterial.
The real trouble, I think, lies in the exact age cutoff, which is pure gimmick, so that they can have the catchy title “20 under 40.” I totally get having the spirit of the list being writers early in their careers. But to claim to be a serious cultural arbiter and then making arbitrary distinctions purely for the sake of selling more magazines–which is the point of gimmicks–seems very dishonest. Sure, the NYer is trying to make a profit above all, but there usually seems to be a clear distinction between the serious journalism they do and the sales of cartoon prints.
But I fail to see how we are playing into their hands by predicting who they will pick. It is a big deal–the NYer seal of approval will affect who is published and promoted. What is wrong with being tuned into that?
*To me, this is the even uglier thing about it.
Amy, if you don’t believe in the age cut off, then why post it on your site? Why run a contest about it?
By doing so, you are basically saying “This is ok, it is cool.”
So, you can’t really on the one hand say you don’t believe in the age cut off and on the other run a contest to predict who they pick.
The real question might be this: Who cares who the New Yorker picks? Like they really have good taste? The fiction and poetry they publish, generally speaking, is totally conservative. Most people that read the magazine probably aren’t even under 40.
i think the hardcore porn 20 over 40 list would be much more interesting.
hard to endure constant penis widening!
lasting in writing not so hard.
just write. keep writing.
I disagree with your reasoning. You can have a contest about who the Supreme Court nominee will be, or who the next Nobel winner will be, without agreeing with all the criteria used to pick them. I surely didn’t agree with any of Bush’s choices, but I was still interested in the result because it affected our country. Just as the NYer picks affect the landscape of publication for better or worse.
lists serve as a handy way to remind people of things to check out. I really don’t get why people get bent out of shape about them.
I’m pretty sure if I was going to be on this list I’d have heard from the NY’ker by now. If I had, they’d have probably told me not to talk about it or tell anyone, but inasmuch as I haven’t, I suppose I’m granted the full liberty that comes with neglect. The good news for some of us–Tao and me, at least–is that when they do this again in ten years, we’ll both STILL be under 40, so we’ll get to play again. But I’d like to just say, in a kind of general way, that the speed with which the commentariat here turns on its own at the first whiff of any kind of success (even when said success is provisional, predictive, and in this specific case–non-existent) is really classless. It’s ugly, and speaks to the insufferable mediocrity of those who take the position. Let me put this a slightly different way: Go fuck yourself.
lincoln,
i’m not bent out of shape. not sure if you were directing that at me or not.
a list is a handy thing?
in what way?
a list has a purpose and is a form of control.
in this case, the motivation of the control is very political.
i’m not affixing a positive or negative connotation to that statement.
it is what it is. give it a name.
Brendan, I think your ire might just be logistical. HTMLGIANT is purposefully a non-united front. One of our “features” is that with so many people, we have people who disagree about things. Strongly. I’m not sure that’s always clear, as all the time people seem to sort of shave us into some sort of singular identity, but it’s not true or fair to put agency for this contest in Amy’s lap.
The way the site works, someone could post something about how the list is terrible and we should throw eggs at The New Yorker offices, and it would go up a few posts above this one, and neither would cancel out the other.
Personally, I think this contest is making fun of the NYer list more than endorsing it, and cleverly because it gives away independent literature to people under the guise of talking about the NYer, but I could think it’s really terrible and that would be okay. Because there is no such thing as a united identity around here. Which is our secret endorsement of reality.
Justin, you stud. I love the term commentariat.
Furthermore, Eddie, what would be problematic about Blake, Justin, or anyone else wanting to be on a list like that? Would you actively not want it? Let’s be honest here, please.
Why do people get their balls in such a twist every time there’s some kind of list somewhere in the world? If you think this sounds fun, participate. If you don’t, stop bitching, settle down, take a blood pressure pill, and sit this one out. Jesus H. Monkeynuts.
amy, it is an inherit acceptance of the system. you deny that?
i mean, in your analogy, you said you didn’t like the specific figurehead but were interested in the outcome.
exactly. you care because it is something of some prominence to your reality.
What exactly is “constant penis widening”?
I’ve never heard of that before.
Amy: The contest clearly is advocating the whole thing and trying to make it seem cool. There is nothing jokey about it.
If your logic is that, why not have a “Top 20 Rapist” contest. That is a horrible extreme, but it is the same logic you are using.
I seriously doubt the list will do anything for the landscape of publication. What’s hot today is old and wrinkled tomorrow and the media will move on to the next batch of round-faced newbies.
The reason it annoys me is that I just sort of curious about what kind of values are being promoted. As I mentioned, yesterday there was a link here to this post:
http://bigother.com/2010/05/19/alternative-values-in-small-press-culture/
Everyone said, “Cool, great.”
Now today it’s a “hot young writer” post.
If that is what people want, great, but you can’t very well have it both ways.
Then why upset because you think someone is upset?
It is sort of like “Why do people get upset over these oil spills?”
Everyone is so sensitive!
mimi,
i am surmising our porn preferences are slightly different. but, like, have you ever seen those old porn girls with the sad looking private parts?
think “melting silly putty”
because the list is purely political.
in this example, the list serves as validation & promotion.
get on this list & the real “old boys club” will look at you differently.
i am guessing people get uptight because they feel excluded and underestimated in their own efforts.
but few people actually say, “I am angry because i am not on this list and you are.”
To clarify: no, I don’t really dig the list, for the reasons I outlined (the gimmicky cutoff, the self-fulfilling prophecy of it). But I don’t think having a contest about it is the same as condoning it or “playing into it.” I agree with you, Mike, that this is more about making fun of it.
Caring because something affects me is not at all the same as accepting it.
Gotta admit, I’ve never seen those “old porn girls” with the “sad … parts”.
But I’m getting a decent visual, I think.
But you haven’t answered my “cpw” question.
they’re trying to give you free books.
“Go fuck yourself.”
this coming from the guy with the perpetual neon sign saying “validate me.”
lol
at least you are a consistent duck.
brendan, hi, something might be wrong with your email; still havent gotten your list.
haha, man you are blowing my mind today
you said “top 20 rapists”
man, i’m just…
so many negative nancies!
have a beer, man, or a couple carrots.
I would not get upset about this list. I’m enjoying reading this banter.
But I have been very upset for weeks because of the recent Gulf oil spill. It is bad on so many levels.
I hope that someone from here gets on the list.
and greying.
Amy: I understand where you are coming from. The “making fun of part” just didn’t really come across in the original post.
Ryan: was I supposed to provide a list?
Not directing it at you jereme, just in general whenever a list comes out people seem to get really bent out of shape about it. A list is handy, yes I think so. For example, when I see best of 2009 film or music or whatever lists I almost always am reminded of some movie or CD I meant to listen to/watch. Then I go do so.
That’s handy.
I’m not really sure what political motivation there is for some blogger to post their favorite books of the year or what have you. I don’t lists are “the establishment” even if the establishment uses lists.
Brendan, look at the 1999 list and then tell me this doesn’t affect anything. Junot Diaz, Edwidge Danticat, Jhumpa Lahiri–these writers have gotten major advances, anthologizations, future NYer pubs (this pays incredibly well) AFTER getting on this list. It’s no coincidence. And as someone pointed out in the Tyra Banks post, there is only so much $$ to go around. That the NYer says they are just predicting when really they are deciding is the insidious part of this, and when they act like it’s this serious thing when really it’s for profit, well, that’s gross too.
I am actually not upset over the list and am about the oil spill.
The reason I commented about the list was not because it upset me, but just because I had something to say.
brendan, yes, please send your list if you wish to participate in our celebration of this really incredibly important event in the history of American letters.
well mimi, do you have like an old purse?
for an hour throw a softball into the purse opening as hard as you can.
do that every day.
do that for 22 years.
<3
Well, negative nancies and positive patties makes not for dull dickies.
“A little negativity goes a long way,” as racy robin said to electrocutioner before he pulled the switch.
I’m not sure I agree this list affects much though. The New Yorker isn’t picking unknown people. Junot Diaz was already a star from his first book, I don’t think the New Yorker’s stamp is what made him one. Ditto with the others you name.
On the flip side, there were writers on the 1999 list who I haven’t really heard much from since.
Me too!
“The “making fun of part” just didn’t really come across in the original post.”
I had the converse problem with the recent Roxane Gay/Tyra Banks post. I thought the “making fun of part” was coming through loud and clear, and turns out I was completely wrong. Stumped. It happens sometimes on HTML GIANT.
amy,
you walk into a hurricane on your own volition but you aren’t accepting the weather around you?
like i said, it is inherent acceptance.
acceptance of the system is okay. just be honest about it.
lincoln,
the blogger who decides to publish a personal list publicly has changed the nature of the list.
it is now political and manipulative, to a certain extent.
I wonder what they baited their breath with…?
to be honest, I dont even know the ages of most writers.
how do we know they are under 40?
Yeah, I guess you didn’t make the list, huh? That would explain why you are so angry. But then again, you’re always angry. Maybe you should use some of it in your work instead of trying to come off as someone who is suffering from PTSD. Although that is endemic a certain class of writers right now. Affectless, seen-too-much, know-it-all, life is superflat. Or, the Faux-Austists.
yeah i dunno, you may be right. i’m not needing to argue about it anymore. my heart is with “joseph,” who says below, “they’re trying to give you free books” meaning the ppl who donated to the contest (which I have nothing to do with despite being a contributor). contests are fun even if lists aren’t.
I don’t think I could do that. My arm would get sore. And I “throw like a girl” (literally).
You’re funny.
Not “funny” like weird, but “giggle” funny.
I mean i don’t have a problem with the contest or the list, I’m just saying I don’t think it counts for that much.
@brendan, in making my list, i found that wikipedia often had ages. other times, you can like figure out some through some internet clicking. like, jessica anthony won that mcsweensy amanda davis highwire award in 2004, which goes to a writer under 32, so that puts her within the age range
what do you mean by political?
Do I smell another birth certificate controversy?
Did you guys ever hear of “docking?”
the docking i know involves a dick hole.
is that what you are referring to?
When I said “I would not get upset about this list” I was being declarative, not rhetorical. I didn’t think you were upset about this list. Maybe I should have said “I am not upset about this list.” Or maybe “This list is not upsetting to me.” Or “This list would not be upsetting to me.” since the actual list doesn’t exist yet in my consciousness. Just the idea of it. Or an idea of it.
You are an interesting voice in an interesting exchange, Brendan.
And, for what it’s worth, I did like very much your poem, recently posted here.
Yeah. Sounds awesome.
I wonder why 40 is the cut off point? Like once your 40 youre not a new / relevant / vital writer anymore? Bukowski didnt start seriously publishing until he was in his 50s. Burroughs was over 40, I think, when he started getting published. I’m sure there’s tons of other examples but Im too lazy to google it.
Although I got published in my 20s – mid to late 20s – I cant help but see the benefit of young writers going out and living some life -, get married, get divorced, be homeless, get drunk, get your heart broken a few times, lose some teeth, wander the streets of some foreign cities – before they write, or at least before they write their ‘big’ novel.
I like htmls competition way more than I like the idea of the New Yorker list. At least html are offering prizes. I clicked the link to the article about the New Yorkers list and the first thing I saw was Safran Foers ugly mug staring back at me, which tells me all I need to know about the kind of writers who will probably make the list – insufferably dull assholes who need no further promotion, but will get it because the people who edit insufferably dull magazines get their panties in a knot over their turgid bullshit…
Its all just a way for these same assholes to command even bigger advances, etc, and really not anything about whose doing the most interesting shit right now. I would fucking love it if someone like Blake or any of the other writers who hang around here and happen to be under 40 and publishing great books – made the list. But I doubt they will, not because they arent great writers, but because they havent gotten into that circle jerk inner circle that the likes of Foer have. Still, if everybody starts brushing up on their fellatio techniques between now and next year, maybe someone from ‘over here’ could make the list next year…?
And would I love to be on that list? Of course I would. My rent doesnt pay itself, you know. That said, I’d also love to be able to manufacture my own pharmaceutical grade heroin too.
i mean political as in manipulative.
that manipulation may be passive or patent depending on the list.
but it is always a form of manipulation. otherwise why show anyone other than yourself?
I see this contest as another way to promote our presses and our friends’s presses. Take whatever opportunity you can.
Why does the cut off point have to mean anything? Blake and Lily are doing a book called 30 under 30. Granta’s cut-off for its best young novelists lists are 35.
lists are always arbitrary.
it is really big in prison.
they like to put bb’s and all manner of weird shit in there.
gotta pass the time some how and self-mutilation is nice to some.
Not really. All these lists are about people beyong not above a certain age.
If you did that for hiring, you’d be sued.
How about: Top 20 white writers.
You can play pacman at http://www.google.com
I think Blake stands a chance.
“I am actually not upset over the list and am about the oil spill.” is my new favorite comment ever on this site
I agree, Lily. I would absolutely want to be on this list. I must say, I find it so distressing that ambition is so often denigrated. It is okay to want to be excellent and to be recognized and if you don’t feel that way, that’s absolutely your right but there’s no need to be shitty about it.
Meanwhile, I have 5 years so I remain hopeful. Apparently, after 40, we become irrelevant.
i would make a wager that he is on it.
$10?
any takers?
I am all for promoting your presses. But it would be nice to see it done in a way that actually sets your own standards for quality. Which I am sure are higher than those of the New Yorker.
People do lists like that too (not “white”, for obvious reasons, but other similar factors)
i like that part in logan’s run when they get to the ice cave and there’s like that weirdo killer robot hanging out in there, waiting for some people to kill. i see that weirdo killer robot as the “establishment.”
logan’s run was rife with symbolism for whatever.
Just played! Thanks for the tip. Still suck at that game.
Do you feel the same way about, say, book reviews?
Thanks mimi. I always get confused in the declarative.
Blake: it all comes together.
There are lists for older people?
100 senior citizens you wish you could sleep with.
the act of reviewing books is absolutely the same.
otherwise why publish your composed notes on a book?
how are you not being manipulative to some degree?
love this scene:
httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSnLU9nyFSA
sally field
logan’s run is on my top 20 list of movies under 40 years old for sure.
everyone likes that scene.
try harder ryan. come on.
i cant help that i like a popular scene!
Isn’t this sort of validating the A.D. Jameson post at Bigother you guys linked to the other day?
Sort of reminds me of one of those articles about “America’s Youngest Millionaires” and that sort of thing.
Who cares how old they are or if there are 20 of them.
I see it more like having fun with what the establishment is already doing, but yeah, it does of course reinforce that mentality, too.
Publishing Genius will send to the worst entry books from the six writers who are 40 and up in the PG catalog.
Is that okay Ryan or too confusing?
But that mentality has already co-opted every other part of our society, do we really want it to infiltrate the arts (literature in this case) also? I mean, the “top 20” thing is what MSN and David Letterman use to get eyeballs to sell their products. And I have seen a number of these hot youth lists, but never a “hottest writers over 70” or something like that.
I mean, the establishment has pretty well fucked up the world, why play into their hands?
Damn, I was going to ignore this, but that’s a shitload of stuff I would like to read! Argh. Still don’t think I’ll do it, as I’m completely out of touch w/ whoever it is that the New Yorker considers good writesr. . . .
Also, I think it’s “bated breath.”
seems like a ‘big’ fuss. seems like they’ll just write ‘Tao Lin’ ~20x.
Made a long list of possibilites, only to find out most of them miss the age cut-off date by 2-3 years, or are Canadian and I didn’t know it.
Doubtful that Tao Lin will make it onto the radar. It will likely be Jonathans and Zadies a-go-go.
We’re running an alternate contest on We Who Are About to Die. The 20 rising stars of indie lit. No age bracket.
You can play here: http://bit.ly/bwFjPJ
YOU HAVE BEEN INFILTRATED
ZZZZZ
i think youre right, but i just linked to whatever Lmagazine said: “America’s best young writers are waiting with baited breath for final word about the New Yorker’s Summer Fiction double-issue”
brendan, makes sense i guess. i didnt think beyond ‘oh this might be fun to do’
adam, ill put yours on the list
I’m not sure I’d conflate “lists” with “the establishment”
You know what’s more relevant? How about the top 20 Basketball Players under the age of 18. That’s about a step above the top 20 writers under 40.
And you guys are so full of shit. You pretend like it’s all just a joke, that it doesn’t mean anything, but Blake Butler, Justin Taylor, Matthew Simmons and Tao Lin all want nothing more than to be on a list like this, and I’m sure they did everything they could to get on it.
really lincoln?
what purpose does a list have?
it is always a form of control, to some degree, i think.
Seems to make sense to pick young people if the point of the list is writers to watch. The idea is, these are people they think will be read by NYer readers for decades to come (obviously largely self-fulfilled*). There are all kinds of top 10 or 20 lists. Sometimes it is who people think will win Nobel prizes. These lists are filled with people who are past mid-career, so lots in their 60s and 70s or even 80s. Lists of best books of the year tend to have a range of ages because for that, age is immaterial.
The real trouble, I think, lies in the exact age cutoff, which is pure gimmick, so that they can have the catchy title “20 under 40.” I totally get having the spirit of the list being writers early in their careers. But to claim to be a serious cultural arbiter and then making arbitrary distinctions purely for the sake of selling more magazines–which is the point of gimmicks–seems very dishonest. Sure, the NYer is trying to make a profit above all, but there usually seems to be a clear distinction between the serious journalism they do and the sales of cartoon prints.
But I fail to see how we are playing into their hands by predicting who they will pick. It is a big deal–the NYer seal of approval will affect who is published and promoted. What is wrong with being tuned into that?
*To me, this is the even uglier thing about it.
Ligand run is the Shiraz
damn Justin seems angry as senate bees. I might get some popcorn and check in later
Amy, if you don’t believe in the age cut off, then why post it on your site? Why run a contest about it?
By doing so, you are basically saying “This is ok, it is cool.”
So, you can’t really on the one hand say you don’t believe in the age cut off and on the other run a contest to predict who they pick.
The real question might be this: Who cares who the New Yorker picks? Like they really have good taste? The fiction and poetry they publish, generally speaking, is totally conservative. Most people that read the magazine probably aren’t even under 40.
i think the hardcore porn 20 over 40 list would be much more interesting.
hard to endure constant penis widening!
lasting in writing not so hard.
just write. keep writing.
dude you don’t even know. he even revoked his “fuck you” response to the guy.
i am guessing justin is still all yosemite sam and shit about it.
I disagree with your reasoning. You can have a contest about who the Supreme Court nominee will be, or who the next Nobel winner will be, without agreeing with all the criteria used to pick them. I surely didn’t agree with any of Bush’s choices, but I was still interested in the result because it affected our country. Just as the NYer picks affect the landscape of publication for better or worse.
lists serve as a handy way to remind people of things to check out. I really don’t get why people get bent out of shape about them.
I’m pretty sure if I was going to be on this list I’d have heard from the NY’ker by now. If I had, they’d have probably told me not to talk about it or tell anyone, but inasmuch as I haven’t, I suppose I’m granted the full liberty that comes with neglect. The good news for some of us–Tao and me, at least–is that when they do this again in ten years, we’ll both STILL be under 40, so we’ll get to play again. But I’d like to just say, in a kind of general way, that the speed with which the commentariat here turns on its own at the first whiff of any kind of success (even when said success is provisional, predictive, and in this specific case–non-existent) is really classless. It’s ugly, and speaks to the insufferable mediocrity of those who take the position. Let me put this a slightly different way: Go fuck yourself.
jereme- that second “Justin Taylor” that appeared with an un-linked name wasn’t me, which is why it was deleted. And I’m not angry, just disappointed.
lincoln,
i’m not bent out of shape. not sure if you were directing that at me or not.
a list is a handy thing?
in what way?
a list has a purpose and is a form of control.
in this case, the motivation of the control is very political.
i’m not affixing a positive or negative connotation to that statement.
it is what it is. give it a name.
Brendan, I think your ire might just be logistical. HTMLGIANT is purposefully a non-united front. One of our “features” is that with so many people, we have people who disagree about things. Strongly. I’m not sure that’s always clear, as all the time people seem to sort of shave us into some sort of singular identity, but it’s not true or fair to put agency for this contest in Amy’s lap.
The way the site works, someone could post something about how the list is terrible and we should throw eggs at The New Yorker offices, and it would go up a few posts above this one, and neither would cancel out the other.
Personally, I think this contest is making fun of the NYer list more than endorsing it, and cleverly because it gives away independent literature to people under the guise of talking about the NYer, but I could think it’s really terrible and that would be okay. Because there is no such thing as a united identity around here. Which is our secret endorsement of reality.
Justin, you stud. I love the term commentariat.
Furthermore, Eddie, what would be problematic about Blake, Justin, or anyone else wanting to be on a list like that? Would you actively not want it? Let’s be honest here, please.
Why do people get their balls in such a twist every time there’s some kind of list somewhere in the world? If you think this sounds fun, participate. If you don’t, stop bitching, settle down, take a blood pressure pill, and sit this one out. Jesus H. Monkeynuts.
amy, it is an inherit acceptance of the system. you deny that?
i mean, in your analogy, you said you didn’t like the specific figurehead but were interested in the outcome.
exactly. you care because it is something of some prominence to your reality.
What exactly is “constant penis widening”?
I’ve never heard of that before.
Amy: The contest clearly is advocating the whole thing and trying to make it seem cool. There is nothing jokey about it.
If your logic is that, why not have a “Top 20 Rapist” contest. That is a horrible extreme, but it is the same logic you are using.
I seriously doubt the list will do anything for the landscape of publication. What’s hot today is old and wrinkled tomorrow and the media will move on to the next batch of round-faced newbies.
The reason it annoys me is that I just sort of curious about what kind of values are being promoted. As I mentioned, yesterday there was a link here to this post:
http://bigother.com/2010/05/19/alternative-values-in-small-press-culture/
Everyone said, “Cool, great.”
Now today it’s a “hot young writer” post.
If that is what people want, great, but you can’t very well have it both ways.
Then why upset because you think someone is upset?
It is sort of like “Why do people get upset over these oil spills?”
Everyone is so sensitive!
mimi,
i am surmising our porn preferences are slightly different. but, like, have you ever seen those old porn girls with the sad looking private parts?
think “melting silly putty”
because the list is purely political.
in this example, the list serves as validation & promotion.
get on this list & the real “old boys club” will look at you differently.
i am guessing people get uptight because they feel excluded and underestimated in their own efforts.
but few people actually say, “I am angry because i am not on this list and you are.”
To clarify: no, I don’t really dig the list, for the reasons I outlined (the gimmicky cutoff, the self-fulfilling prophecy of it). But I don’t think having a contest about it is the same as condoning it or “playing into it.” I agree with you, Mike, that this is more about making fun of it.
Caring because something affects me is not at all the same as accepting it.
Gotta admit, I’ve never seen those “old porn girls” with the “sad … parts”.
But I’m getting a decent visual, I think.
But you haven’t answered my “cpw” question.
they’re trying to give you free books.
“Go fuck yourself.”
this coming from the guy with the perpetual neon sign saying “validate me.”
lol
at least you are a consistent duck.
brendan, hi, something might be wrong with your email; still havent gotten your list.
haha, man you are blowing my mind today
you said “top 20 rapists”
man, i’m just…
so many negative nancies!
have a beer, man, or a couple carrots.
I would not get upset about this list. I’m enjoying reading this banter.
But I have been very upset for weeks because of the recent Gulf oil spill. It is bad on so many levels.
I hope that someone from here gets on the list.
and greying.
Amy: I understand where you are coming from. The “making fun of part” just didn’t really come across in the original post.
Ryan: was I supposed to provide a list?
Not directing it at you jereme, just in general whenever a list comes out people seem to get really bent out of shape about it. A list is handy, yes I think so. For example, when I see best of 2009 film or music or whatever lists I almost always am reminded of some movie or CD I meant to listen to/watch. Then I go do so.
That’s handy.
I’m not really sure what political motivation there is for some blogger to post their favorite books of the year or what have you. I don’t lists are “the establishment” even if the establishment uses lists.
Brendan, look at the 1999 list and then tell me this doesn’t affect anything. Junot Diaz, Edwidge Danticat, Jhumpa Lahiri–these writers have gotten major advances, anthologizations, future NYer pubs (this pays incredibly well) AFTER getting on this list. It’s no coincidence. And as someone pointed out in the Tyra Banks post, there is only so much $$ to go around. That the NYer says they are just predicting when really they are deciding is the insidious part of this, and when they act like it’s this serious thing when really it’s for profit, well, that’s gross too.
I am actually not upset over the list and am about the oil spill.
The reason I commented about the list was not because it upset me, but just because I had something to say.
brendan, yes, please send your list if you wish to participate in our celebration of this really incredibly important event in the history of American letters.
well mimi, do you have like an old purse?
for an hour throw a softball into the purse opening as hard as you can.
do that every day.
do that for 22 years.
<3
Well, negative nancies and positive patties makes not for dull dickies.
“A little negativity goes a long way,” as racy robin said to electrocutioner before he pulled the switch.
I’m not sure I agree this list affects much though. The New Yorker isn’t picking unknown people. Junot Diaz was already a star from his first book, I don’t think the New Yorker’s stamp is what made him one. Ditto with the others you name.
On the flip side, there were writers on the 1999 list who I haven’t really heard much from since.
Me too!
“The “making fun of part” just didn’t really come across in the original post.”
I had the converse problem with the recent Roxane Gay/Tyra Banks post. I thought the “making fun of part” was coming through loud and clear, and turns out I was completely wrong. Stumped. It happens sometimes on HTML GIANT.
amy,
you walk into a hurricane on your own volition but you aren’t accepting the weather around you?
like i said, it is inherent acceptance.
acceptance of the system is okay. just be honest about it.
lincoln,
the blogger who decides to publish a personal list publicly has changed the nature of the list.
it is now political and manipulative, to a certain extent.
I wonder what they baited their breath with…?
to be honest, I dont even know the ages of most writers.
how do we know they are under 40?
Yeah, I guess you didn’t make the list, huh? That would explain why you are so angry. But then again, you’re always angry. Maybe you should use some of it in your work instead of trying to come off as someone who is suffering from PTSD. Although that is endemic a certain class of writers right now. Affectless, seen-too-much, know-it-all, life is superflat. Or, the Faux-Austists.
yeah i dunno, you may be right. i’m not needing to argue about it anymore. my heart is with “joseph,” who says below, “they’re trying to give you free books” meaning the ppl who donated to the contest (which I have nothing to do with despite being a contributor). contests are fun even if lists aren’t.
I don’t think I could do that. My arm would get sore. And I “throw like a girl” (literally).
You’re funny.
Not “funny” like weird, but “giggle” funny.
I mean i don’t have a problem with the contest or the list, I’m just saying I don’t think it counts for that much.
@brendan, in making my list, i found that wikipedia often had ages. other times, you can like figure out some through some internet clicking. like, jessica anthony won that mcsweensy amanda davis highwire award in 2004, which goes to a writer under 32, so that puts her within the age range
what do you mean by political?
Do I smell another birth certificate controversy?
Did you guys ever hear of “docking?”
the docking i know involves a dick hole.
is that what you are referring to?
When I said “I would not get upset about this list” I was being declarative, not rhetorical. I didn’t think you were upset about this list. Maybe I should have said “I am not upset about this list.” Or maybe “This list is not upsetting to me.” Or “This list would not be upsetting to me.” since the actual list doesn’t exist yet in my consciousness. Just the idea of it. Or an idea of it.
You are an interesting voice in an interesting exchange, Brendan.
And, for what it’s worth, I did like very much your poem, recently posted here.
Yeah. Sounds awesome.
I wonder why 40 is the cut off point? Like once your 40 youre not a new / relevant / vital writer anymore? Bukowski didnt start seriously publishing until he was in his 50s. Burroughs was over 40, I think, when he started getting published. I’m sure there’s tons of other examples but Im too lazy to google it.
Although I got published in my 20s – mid to late 20s – I cant help but see the benefit of young writers going out and living some life -, get married, get divorced, be homeless, get drunk, get your heart broken a few times, lose some teeth, wander the streets of some foreign cities – before they write, or at least before they write their ‘big’ novel.
I like htmls competition way more than I like the idea of the New Yorker list. At least html are offering prizes. I clicked the link to the article about the New Yorkers list and the first thing I saw was Safran Foers ugly mug staring back at me, which tells me all I need to know about the kind of writers who will probably make the list – insufferably dull assholes who need no further promotion, but will get it because the people who edit insufferably dull magazines get their panties in a knot over their turgid bullshit…
Its all just a way for these same assholes to command even bigger advances, etc, and really not anything about whose doing the most interesting shit right now. I would fucking love it if someone like Blake or any of the other writers who hang around here and happen to be under 40 and publishing great books – made the list. But I doubt they will, not because they arent great writers, but because they havent gotten into that circle jerk inner circle that the likes of Foer have. Still, if everybody starts brushing up on their fellatio techniques between now and next year, maybe someone from ‘over here’ could make the list next year…?
And would I love to be on that list? Of course I would. My rent doesnt pay itself, you know. That said, I’d also love to be able to manufacture my own pharmaceutical grade heroin too.
i mean political as in manipulative.
that manipulation may be passive or patent depending on the list.
but it is always a form of manipulation. otherwise why show anyone other than yourself?
I see this contest as another way to promote our presses and our friends’s presses. Take whatever opportunity you can.
Why does the cut off point have to mean anything? Blake and Lily are doing a book called 30 under 30. Granta’s cut-off for its best young novelists lists are 35.
lists are always arbitrary.
it is really big in prison.
they like to put bb’s and all manner of weird shit in there.
gotta pass the time some how and self-mutilation is nice to some.
Not really. All these lists are about people beyong not above a certain age.
If you did that for hiring, you’d be sued.
How about: Top 20 white writers.
You can play pacman at http://www.google.com
I think Blake stands a chance.
“I am actually not upset over the list and am about the oil spill.” is my new favorite comment ever on this site
I agree, Lily. I would absolutely want to be on this list. I must say, I find it so distressing that ambition is so often denigrated. It is okay to want to be excellent and to be recognized and if you don’t feel that way, that’s absolutely your right but there’s no need to be shitty about it.
Meanwhile, I have 5 years so I remain hopeful. Apparently, after 40, we become irrelevant.
i would make a wager that he is on it.
$10?
any takers?
I am all for promoting your presses. But it would be nice to see it done in a way that actually sets your own standards for quality. Which I am sure are higher than those of the New Yorker.
People do lists like that too (not “white”, for obvious reasons, but other similar factors)
i like that part in logan’s run when they get to the ice cave and there’s like that weirdo killer robot hanging out in there, waiting for some people to kill. i see that weirdo killer robot as the “establishment.”
I’m not sure “Go fuck yourself” is usually filed under disappointed, but let’s not parse F bombs.
The list is fine and I’ve read the Nyorker for 20 years so not unbiased.
I think I’ll glance at the lis and move on to what I like to read.
But, for all Nyorker establishment talk and the way they can be elitist (they can, but not always in a negative at all), they also drop some fresh stories sometimes. Weekly. What other main rag does? Not many.
So, I’m not soured on Nyorker.
But god I wish the poetry would glow. It’s like they have three phone numbers to dial.
logan’s run was rife with symbolism for whatever.
ah that makes more sense.
Just played! Thanks for the tip. Still suck at that game.
Do you feel the same way about, say, book reviews?
Thanks mimi. I always get confused in the declarative.
Blake: it all comes together.
There are lists for older people?
100 senior citizens you wish you could sleep with.
the act of reviewing books is absolutely the same.
otherwise why publish your composed notes on a book?
how are you not being manipulative to some degree?
love this scene:
httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSnLU9nyFSA
sally field
logan’s run is on my top 20 list of movies under 40 years old for sure.
everyone likes that scene.
try harder ryan. come on.
i cant help that i like a popular scene!
Ligand run is the Shiraz
damn Justin seems angry as senate bees. I might get some popcorn and check in later
dude you don’t even know. he even revoked his “fuck you” response to the guy.
i am guessing justin is still all yosemite sam and shit about it.
jereme- that second “Justin Taylor” that appeared with an un-linked name wasn’t me, which is why it was deleted. And I’m not angry, just disappointed.
I’m not sure “Go fuck yourself” is usually filed under disappointed, but let’s not parse F bombs.
The list is fine and I’ve read the Nyorker for 20 years so not unbiased.
I think I’ll glance at the lis and move on to what I like to read.
But, for all Nyorker establishment talk and the way they can be elitist (they can, but not always in a negative at all), they also drop some fresh stories sometimes. Weekly. What other main rag does? Not many.
So, I’m not soured on Nyorker.
But god I wish the poetry would glow. It’s like they have three phone numbers to dial.
ah that makes more sense.
[…] HTMLGIANT / The HTMLGIANT 20 Under 40 Pick 'Em Contest […]
I have a better idea. Why don’t we take all of these books we are donating and tie them all up together in a package, like a hog-tie, but with no legs or corkscrew tails or squeals. Then we give them to the judges. (Who are the judges?) Maybe the best way to deliver the books would be to execute the lighting of a paperbag filled with dogshit and leave it on their porch after ringing the doorbell and running away. Just so the “New Yorker” (their name is such a bite off of New York Tyrant it disgusts me) knows what kind of shit they’re in. They’ll think Scorch Atlas was burned in the paper bag of dog shit.
No really. Who judges?
treisman and her staff did the work work, and then will get remnicks final approval, i think
I have a better idea. Why don’t we take all of these books we are donating and tie them all up together in a package, like a hog-tie, but with no legs or corkscrew tails or squeals. Then we give them to the judges. (Who are the judges?) Maybe the best way to deliver the books would be to execute the lighting of a paperbag filled with dogshit and leave it on their porch after ringing the doorbell and running away. Just so the “New Yorker” (their name is such a bite off of New York Tyrant it disgusts me) knows what kind of shit they’re in. They’ll think Scorch Atlas was burned in the paper bag of dog shit.
No really. Who judges?
treisman and her staff did the work work, and then will get remnicks final approval, i think
those of you who are debating the list are annoying. it’s a list. a motherfucking list. can’t wait to see what’s on it.
those of you who are debating the list are annoying. it’s a list. a motherfucking list. can’t wait to see what’s on it.
anyone have a copy of last year’s list?
i’d be more interested a reading a list of the top whatever under whatever in the field of whatever who died this year.
I really like carrots. I actually did just eat a few full-size (non-baby) carrots.
I think Chris Adrian was born in 1970, but is he eligible?
And Nathan Englander’s too old, right?
What about Gina Ochsner?
And is Sana Krasikov American or Russian?
I really like carrots. I actually did just eat a few full-size (non-baby) carrots.
I think Chris Adrian was born in 1970, but is he eligible?
And Nathan Englander’s too old, right?
What about Gina Ochsner?
And is Sana Krasikov American or Russian?
spacedocking
spacedocking
[…] which the New Yorker is being seriously tight-lipped about. HTMLGiant is running a contest for the best prediction. Book Fox has some pretty good […]
[…] Future Tense Books, Melville House, and Muumuu House) have been added to the prize packages for our 20 Under 40 Pick ‘Em Contest. The deadline to enter is 11:59pm on June […]
Here’s what I’m confused about: these are supposed to be the top WRITERS of their generation yet the contest is run by a fiction editor and the all the assumptions and guesses made in the New York Observer piece refer to fiction. Are poets not writers?
That’s what I’ll be watching for: how many poets make it on the list. Prediction: 0. How many fiction writers who have also published poetry will make it on the list? Okay, that’s a hard one. Joyelle McSweeney? Tao Lin? My guess: 0.
All right, one more: how many fiction writers whose work could conceivably be labeled as poetry will make it? Blake Butler? My guess: 2. Am I being too optimistic?
Kudos to HTML Giant (and the presses who donated) for actually including poetry in the goodie bag.
And I’m not even considering playwrights, screenwriters, etc. Writing is a big field.
Not to mention translators, for goodness’ sake!
Here’s what I’m confused about: these are supposed to be the top WRITERS of their generation yet the contest is run by a fiction editor and the all the assumptions and guesses made in the New York Observer piece refer to fiction. Are poets not writers?
That’s what I’ll be watching for: how many poets make it on the list. Prediction: 0. How many fiction writers who have also published poetry will make it on the list? Okay, that’s a hard one. Joyelle McSweeney? Tao Lin? My guess: 0.
All right, one more: how many fiction writers whose work could conceivably be labeled as poetry will make it? Blake Butler? My guess: 2. Am I being too optimistic?
Kudos to HTML Giant (and the presses who donated) for actually including poetry in the goodie bag.
And I’m not even considering playwrights, screenwriters, etc. Writing is a big field.
Not to mention translators, for goodness’ sake!
i wonder who the premier writer of dictionaries is, of all languages and vocabulary classes…
got an e-mail yesterday saying the June 7th issue is available online.
Also my gd password’s not working.
For Jeebus’ sake, man — stop the contest and tell us who won!!!
Those books: I must haves them!
thanks for letting me know, mucho. i dont have access to the online version, so i still dont know who is on the list, im sorry; please be patient! i will, however, close the contest now, so that its fair to early entries.
[…] 20 Under 40 Pick ‘Em Contest is now closed due to The New Yorker’s putting the June 7th issue online for subscribers. […]
got an e-mail yesterday saying the June 7th issue is available online.
Also my gd password’s not working.
For Jeebus’ sake, man — stop the contest and tell us who won!!!
Those books: I must haves them!
thanks for letting me know, mucho. i dont have access to the online version, so i still dont know who is on the list, im sorry; please be patient! i will, however, close the contest now, so that its fair to early entries.
The list has been released by the New Yorker. Damn, I think I only got five or six right.
[…] of our picks contest to come. What do you think of the list? Tags: 20 under 40, new […]
The list has been released by the New Yorker. Damn, I think I only got five or six right.
[…] before I could get this post live. Anyhow, thank you for being patient; I now present to you the 20 Under 40 Pick ‘Em […]
[…] Giant has a prediction pool going on with great swag packages, so put in your guesses there. (for help with demographic […]