Craft Notes
The Western Sky
While we’re on the subject of Rockstar Games, can I point out that there are moments in Red Dead Redemption where the skies are straight out of Frank Tenney Johnson, Paul Kane, or William Tylee Ranney?
Observe:
Playing the game, I observed even more striking moments of the landscape of the American West being digitally rendered in a way reminiscent of the painters of the American West. And I am certain this was neither accidental nor coincidental. I would wager real money someone at Rockstar spent time with these artists.
So here’s a new layer to the “video games can’t be art”/“of course video games can be art”* argument. Art from a mostly non-narrative** medium can influence a mostly narrative** medium. (A painter can influence a filmmaker. A musician can influence a novelist.) That influence is an element of the process of creating art. Isn’t that happening here? Doesn’t this argue for Red Dead Redemption artistic leanings?
_____
* I acknowledge that this particular debate likely is settled on the “of course…” side here among this blog’s contributors and readership.
** Yes, yes. I know. I know. I know. I’m sorry. I needed to generalize a bit here.
Tags: painters of the american west, the sky
Wow. My brother told me to lay off this game because it is too open ended, too much horsing around and skinning coyotes, but he didn’t mention these vistas. Makes me want to play.
Note: A friend mailed me a bottle of whiskey. I cracked it. I will be over-commenting today.
Does Red Dead Redemption aspire toward artistry or is it merely a pretty commodity, like “Avatar” or “Transformers”: commodities that aspire towards profit and look good only to grab the money from you pockets? Does Red Dead Redemption have an “author”? Who is it?
I think video games have the potential to be art, but not being someone who plays many video games, I don’t know which ones, if any, have been made that are art.
Why does your brother consider horsing around and skinning coyotes a bad thing? I was in the middle of this game when my Xbox shit out. The only reason I’m going to pay money for a new one is to finish this game. Getting lost in it is part of its merit.
fun post, simmons. i grew up reading louis lamour and looking at frediech remingotn paintings. soft spot in my heart makes me want ot buy a console and red dead games.
And this is a genuine question. I’m curious about your brother’s ideas on video games.
Well, the new thing in video games is “going off the rail” being able to wander around, but have some games made it too much like life. Without a set mention, maybe riding around gets bored?
I actually found this happening to me in another Rock Star game, GTA. I mean I started trying to create my own missions and mayhem…
Then some games don’t give you enough freedom. I loved BioShock but it seemed like I was forced into directions and decisions.
Red Dead Redemption would probably have been no less financially successful had Rockstar been lazy with the sky and setting. Instead, they opted for beauty instead of blandness. That’s a beautiful, artistic decision in and of itself.
Keep with Redemption. Red Dead Revolver was awful.
reminds me of “Westward the Course of Empire Takes its Way,” which DFW borrowed for his story/novella: http://machines.pomona.edu/dfwwiki/index.php/Image:Westward.jpeg
Apparently, the thing cost “between $80 million and $100 million” to make (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/17/arts/television/17dead.html), so I’m sure they used these paintings for reference, along with tons & tons of movies. I recently watched DUCK YOU SUCKER (it’s on Netflix Instant), and you could absolutely reshoot that movie inside Red Dead Redemption.
The entire “are video games art” debate seems misguided to me. Of course they’re art. Doesn’t anyone remember R. Mutt? Or the rest of the twentieth century? We should be asking more interesting questions, like, for starters, what kind of art are they, exactly, and what else is possible that’s not first person shooter/platformer/puzzle game, and so on. Rock Star’s open-ended but story-driven games are definitely v. interesting. I’ve skinned a lot more coyotes than I needed to, that’s for sure.
http://gamernode.com/upload/manager///News%20Images/Industry/red_dead_redemption_dated1259784417.jpg
My favorite game for a long time was Fallout 3, which in the beginning is a pretty spectacular way to simulate being homeless and foraging for food and supplies.
It’s still fun later but the beginning is really great.
man, i’m gonna get an xbox 360 and an ounce of cocaine, fuck letters, tom bissell is a luminary
I know Bissell was mentioned in the thread, but have a lot of you read Extra Lives yet? I’ve been a big cheerleader for the book in the comments section here among other outlets on the web, but I really think he nailed the luddonarrative, i.e. games that eschew traditional cut scenes and allow more free roaming gameplay allowing “the story” to more closely mirror life than author controlled narratives. I know RDR has cut scenes, but it’s gameplay is open ended in the same style as the GTA games along with Far Cry 2 and a few others. Those games also had sweeping vistas and complex locales rife with detail and authenticity. I wonder if what Matthew talks about in the post–the breathtaking landscapes–are becoming a common thread for this luddonarrative heavy games?
Reynard,
An Xbox and cocaine will not do you wrong, believe me (until they do)
this has nothing to do w/ video games, but the talk of sky opens me up. i’m from nebraska and anything west of and including nebraska: colorado, wyoming, montana, particularly, has skies that will burst your pleasure center. shit allows me to breathe in a way i can’t in boston. i think it’s like when you grow up next to the ocean and need that salt breath feeling to open yr pores. i need sky and lots of it. clouds that kingdom crush you.
Wow. My brother told me to lay off this game because it is too open ended, too much horsing around and skinning coyotes, but he didn’t mention these vistas. Makes me want to play.
Note: A friend mailed me a bottle of whiskey. I cracked it. I will be over-commenting today.
Does Red Dead Redemption aspire toward artistry or is it merely a pretty commodity, like “Avatar” or “Transformers”: commodities that aspire towards profit and look good only to grab the money from you pockets? Does Red Dead Redemption have an “author”? Who is it?
I think video games have the potential to be art, but not being someone who plays many video games, I don’t know which ones, if any, have been made that are art.
Why does your brother consider horsing around and skinning coyotes a bad thing? I was in the middle of this game when my Xbox shit out. The only reason I’m going to pay money for a new one is to finish this game. Getting lost in it is part of its merit.
fun post, simmons. i grew up reading louis lamour and looking at frediech remingotn paintings. soft spot in my heart makes me want ot buy a console and red dead games.
And this is a genuine question. I’m curious about your brother’s ideas on video games.
Nobody ever mails me whiskey.
This game is good. I too thought there must be an overabundance of horsing and skinning but I’ve found something intimately and fundamentally engaging and soothing about it. My experience is similar to the one Bissell writes of in that piece on GTA 4 which was online somewhere recently.
Well, the new thing in video games is “going off the rail” being able to wander around, but have some games made it too much like life. Without a set mention, maybe riding around gets bored?
I actually found this happening to me in another Rock Star game, GTA. I mean I started trying to create my own missions and mayhem…
Then some games don’t give you enough freedom. I loved BioShock but it seemed like I was forced into directions and decisions.
Red Dead Redemption would probably have been no less financially successful had Rockstar been lazy with the sky and setting. Instead, they opted for beauty instead of blandness. That’s a beautiful, artistic decision in and of itself.
Keep with Redemption. Red Dead Revolver was awful.
reminds me of “Westward the Course of Empire Takes its Way,” which DFW borrowed for his story/novella: http://machines.pomona.edu/dfwwiki/index.php/Image:Westward.jpeg
Apparently, the thing cost “between $80 million and $100 million” to make (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/17/arts/television/17dead.html), so I’m sure they used these paintings for reference, along with tons & tons of movies. I recently watched DUCK YOU SUCKER (it’s on Netflix Instant), and you could absolutely reshoot that movie inside Red Dead Redemption.
The entire “are video games art” debate seems misguided to me. Of course they’re art. Doesn’t anyone remember R. Mutt? Or the rest of the twentieth century? We should be asking more interesting questions, like, for starters, what kind of art are they, exactly, and what else is possible that’s not first person shooter/platformer/puzzle game, and so on. Rock Star’s open-ended but story-driven games are definitely v. interesting. I’ve skinned a lot more coyotes than I needed to, that’s for sure.
http://gamernode.com/upload/manager///News%20Images/Industry/red_dead_redemption_dated1259784417.jpg
My favorite game for a long time was Fallout 3, which in the beginning is a pretty spectacular way to simulate being homeless and foraging for food and supplies.
It’s still fun later but the beginning is really great.
man, i’m gonna get an xbox 360 and an ounce of cocaine, fuck letters, tom bissell is a luminary
I know Bissell was mentioned in the thread, but have a lot of you read Extra Lives yet? I’ve been a big cheerleader for the book in the comments section here among other outlets on the web, but I really think he nailed the luddonarrative, i.e. games that eschew traditional cut scenes and allow more free roaming gameplay allowing “the story” to more closely mirror life than author controlled narratives. I know RDR has cut scenes, but it’s gameplay is open ended in the same style as the GTA games along with Far Cry 2 and a few others. Those games also had sweeping vistas and complex locales rife with detail and authenticity. I wonder if what Matthew talks about in the post–the breathtaking landscapes–are becoming a common thread for this luddonarrative heavy games?
SHADOW OF THE COLOSSUS IS DELIBERATE ART. EVERYTHING BY THAT GUY.
THERE ARE OTHERS OF COURSE.
FALLOUT 3 HAD TO BE WIPED FROM ZZZIPP’S HARD-DRIVE. ZZZZZIPPPING WASN’T SO GREAT AFTER GATHERING AN ALTERNATE, MORE INSTANTLY REWARDING LIFE THROUGH THE COMPUTER SCREEN. HOW CAN ANYONE BE MOTIVATED.
AT LEAST ONLINE PEOPLE CALL YOU “DIPSHIT” EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE
Reynard,
An Xbox and cocaine will not do you wrong, believe me (until they do)
I have not yet read it beyond the GTA 4 essay, but it sounds really promising. I (embarrassingly) was kind of put off by a pan in the NYT but would love a reason (like this rec) to pick it up. The essay I did read kind of punched me in the soul so that should really be all the rec I need, but I find my reading list already fuller than my attention span.
this has nothing to do w/ video games, but the talk of sky opens me up. i’m from nebraska and anything west of and including nebraska: colorado, wyoming, montana, particularly, has skies that will burst your pleasure center. shit allows me to breathe in a way i can’t in boston. i think it’s like when you grow up next to the ocean and need that salt breath feeling to open yr pores. i need sky and lots of it. clouds that kingdom crush you.
My all-time favorite.
Almost completely perfect, that game.
It’s a fantastic book. Dwight Garner was way off base. Read Chris Suellentrop’s review instead.
Nobody ever mails me whiskey.
This game is good. I too thought there must be an overabundance of horsing and skinning but I’ve found something intimately and fundamentally engaging and soothing about it. My experience is similar to the one Bissell writes of in that piece on GTA 4 which was online somewhere recently.
SHADOW OF THE COLOSSUS IS DELIBERATE ART. EVERYTHING BY THAT GUY.
THERE ARE OTHERS OF COURSE.
FALLOUT 3 HAD TO BE WIPED FROM ZZZIPP’S HARD-DRIVE. ZZZZZIPPPING WASN’T SO GREAT AFTER GATHERING AN ALTERNATE, MORE INSTANTLY REWARDING LIFE THROUGH THE COMPUTER SCREEN. HOW CAN ANYONE BE MOTIVATED.
AT LEAST ONLINE PEOPLE CALL YOU “DIPSHIT” EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE
ART: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgZXiHfNt0M
I have not yet read it beyond the GTA 4 essay, but it sounds really promising. I (embarrassingly) was kind of put off by a pan in the NYT but would love a reason (like this rec) to pick it up. The essay I did read kind of punched me in the soul so that should really be all the rec I need, but I find my reading list already fuller than my attention span.
My all-time favorite.
Almost completely perfect, that game.
It’s a fantastic book. Dwight Garner was way off base. Read Chris Suellentrop’s review instead.
ART: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgZXiHfNt0M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ1Kfn_Lgw8
je vous lis. je vois les images et je me souviens de ce titre de the Orb remixé par Danny Tennaglia – cette femme qui parle du ciel et des nuages de l’arizona : “they were beautiful”, dit-elle.
love & respect
No PC version, boo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ1Kfn_Lgw8
je vous lis. je vois les images et je me souviens de ce titre de the Orb remixé par Danny Tennaglia – cette femme qui parle du ciel et des nuages de l’arizona : “they were beautiful”, dit-elle.
love & respect
No PC version, boo.
an interesting article about video games taking from architecture/photography:
http://bldgblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/ghosts-of-future-borrowing-architecture.html
[…] Commenter kirby pointed to this essay by Jim Rossignol about video games and […]
SotC is by Team Ico. They put out their namesake title, Ico, before SotC, and they have a third title coming out this year or next for the PS3 called The Last Guardian. You probably know that, zip, but for anyone else who is interested.
an interesting article about video games taking from architecture/photography:
http://bldgblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/ghosts-of-future-borrowing-architecture.html
SotC is by Team Ico. They put out their namesake title, Ico, before SotC, and they have a third title coming out this year or next for the PS3 called The Last Guardian. You probably know that, zip, but for anyone else who is interested.