September 2nd, 2010 / 1:31 am
Film
Blake Butler
Film
Harmony Korine’s Act Da Fool
While we’re on the Harmony Korine again, there is a new short film called Act Da Fool by him on the Proenza Schoulder site. It is retarded gorgeous. In a related Q&A on the site he refers to it as his version of The Ten Commandments. [Thanks to Mike Kitchell for the point.]
Tags: Act Da Fool, harmony korine, Proenza Schoulder
fuck. korine… i have such a soft spot for him. my ex gf dropped $$$ on his limited ed zine boxset which i received as a gift… though i wonder about his relationship to the subjects he documents… does he fetishize? it’s so seductive… i am always floored
i love it. “i ain’t goin to church no more. church can suck it.” i will say against the naysayers, i think korine taps into the real heart of america’s child-mind. he makes films like a true child, which is to say like someone who is actually alive.
Gummo hit me like a meteorite; still waiting for that feeling again
Gummo hit me like a meteorite; still waiting for that feeling again
fuck. korine… i have such a soft spot for him. my ex gf dropped $$$ on his limited ed zine boxset which i received as a gift… though i wonder about his relationship to the subjects he documents… does he fetishize? it’s so seductive… i am always floored
i love it. “i ain’t goin to church no more. church can suck it.” i will say against the naysayers, i think korine taps into the real heart of america’s child-mind. he makes films like a true child, which is to say like someone who is actually alive.
Gummo hit me like a meteorite; still waiting for that feeling again
Gummo hit me like a meteorite; still waiting for that feeling again
love
Those girls remind me of some of my students (smoking, hitting tires with big sticks).
I’ve heard that ‘voice’.
I’m wondering where that film was shot. Do you know?
It looks rural/small town.
I’m pounding the pavement in East Oakland.
Are you becoming a fashionista Blake?
Proenza Schouler is very high-end.
yes
& why god gotta be so violent, i wanna know too. wow. i hope my sisters home schooled children figure out how to stumble upon this soon. xd
i enjoyed that a lot. thanks, blake
With the connect to Adam Robinson, I was wondering if this was shot in B-mo. And yeah, how is it that this film appears on the Proenza site? Am I missing something? I clicked around and everything I saw was Fashion Severe. So strange. Needless to say, I’m inspired.
Yes II.
Yeah, the Fashion Severe connection is weird; is this borderline ‘exploitation’? Korine is BFFs with Chloe’ Sevigny, is he not?
Did you ever see Zoolander? Remember the ‘Derelict’ (pronounced ‘de-re-LEEKT”) collection?
love
that was amazing. thanks for sharing. finally getting to see trash humpers next week and this has me that much more jacked for it.
FASHION
Gummo is a film I’ve watched many many times. There’s not as much eye-candy for me in the others.
hood rats like fashion as much if not more than the next arbitrary grouping of people, i.e. paris is burning and hip hop in general
this film reminded me of george washington
i liked it but i feel that more people could mine this field and get more candy out of it and they should because most of america is more like this than jersey shore
definition of “hood rats” would be useful here
if i had to guess i’d say it was probably filmed in nashville since that’s korine’s home and he like to film there. it’s where he filmed gummo and trash humpers.
have you seen mister lonely? that one’s all eye-candy.
http://htmlgiant.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/banksy-rat.jpg
Those girls remind me of some of my students (smoking, hitting tires with big sticks).
I’ve heard that ‘voice’.
I’m wondering where that film was shot. Do you know?
It looks rural/small town.
I’m pounding the pavement in East Oakland.
Are you becoming a fashionista Blake?
Proenza Schouler is very high-end.
yes
oh ha! But srsly: “coloreds” would have been a little less de-humanizing
like i give a fuck
why should you?
Gummo has more variety. I got bored during Mister Lonely and I never get bored watching Gummo. But this isn’t a review, and my response to films is idiosyncratic. I want movies which are either perfect entities (like The Big Heat or The Conformist or Blue Velvet) or which leave space so I can enter and inhabit and become inhabited…. like Gummo or The Passion of Beatrice or Burnt Money or Cyclo
& why god gotta be so violent, i wanna know too. wow. i hope my sisters home schooled children figure out how to stumble upon this soon. xd
Hood rats come in all different colors, from my observations, in ‘my world’, anyway, ‘these days’.
i enjoyed that a lot. thanks, blake
With the connect to Adam Robinson, I was wondering if this was shot in B-mo. And yeah, how is it that this film appears on the Proenza site? Am I missing something? I clicked around and everything I saw was Fashion Severe. So strange. Needless to say, I’m inspired.
Yes II.
Yeah, the Fashion Severe connection is weird; is this borderline ‘exploitation’? Korine is BFFs with Chloe’ Sevigny, is he not?
Did you ever see Zoolander? Remember the ‘Derelict’ (pronounced ‘de-re-LEEKT”) collection?
Yes. And Adam Robinson edited it. ADAM
that was amazing. thanks for sharing. finally getting to see trash humpers next week and this has me that much more jacked for it.
FASHION
Gummo is a film I’ve watched many many times. There’s not as much eye-candy for me in the others.
hood rats like fashion as much if not more than the next arbitrary grouping of people, i.e. paris is burning and hip hop in general
this film reminded me of george washington
i liked it but i feel that more people could mine this field and get more candy out of it and they should because most of america is more like this than jersey shore
definition of “hood rats” would be useful here
if i had to guess i’d say it was probably filmed in nashville since that’s korine’s home and he like to film there. it’s where he filmed gummo and trash humpers.
have you seen mister lonely? that one’s all eye-candy.
http://htmlgiant.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/banksy-rat.jpg
oh ha! But srsly: “coloreds” would have been a little less de-humanizing
like i give a fuck
why should you?
Gummo has more variety. I got bored during Mister Lonely and I never get bored watching Gummo. But this isn’t a review, and my response to films is idiosyncratic. I want movies which are either perfect entities (like The Big Heat or The Conformist or Blue Velvet) or which leave space so I can enter and inhabit and become inhabited…. like Gummo or The Passion of Beatrice or Burnt Money or Cyclo
Hood rats come in all different colors, from my observations, in ‘my world’, anyway, ‘these days’.
Yes. And Adam Robinson edited it. ADAM
Hey guys-
Yeah, when I said “the Fashion Severe connection is weird” what I meant was something like “What is Proenza Schouler’s motivation for/interest in this film?” The girls must be wearing their (P S ‘s) clothes, I think.
that was hot. i’m glad to see korine do a fashion short, they’re some of my favorite short films – the one lynch did for Dior (http://www.ladydior.com/) was fucking incredible
i should clarify – the one he did this year for Dior
i don’t know man…
Yeah, Mimi, I don’t know what to make of it at all, which is why I like it.
Steven, Mimi and Reynard are right. Hood rat just means a kid in the hood. In Oakland or any other decent-sized urban city in the states, color is less the defining characteristic than class, and it’s not a demeaning term, not when I say it.
Reynard & Mimi, have you seen the Banksy around town? I can’t remember where, but maybe in Temescal and/or Rockridge and the Mission… on DSL boxes if I recall. I love it.
LIKE
Hey guys-
Yeah, when I said “the Fashion Severe connection is weird” what I meant was something like “What is Proenza Schouler’s motivation for/interest in this film?” The girls must be wearing their (P S ‘s) clothes, I think.
that was hot. i’m glad to see korine do a fashion short, they’re some of my favorite short films – the one lynch did for Dior (http://www.ladydior.com/) was fucking incredible
i should clarify – the one he did this year for Dior
i don’t know man…
Yeah, Mimi, I don’t know what to make of it at all, which is why I like it.
Steven, Mimi and Reynard are right. Hood rat just means a kid in the hood. In Oakland or any other decent-sized urban city in the states, color is less the defining characteristic than class, and it’s not a demeaning term, not when I say it.
Reynard & Mimi, have you seen the Banksy around town? I can’t remember where, but maybe in Temescal and/or Rockridge and the Mission… on DSL boxes if I recall. I love it.
“Steven, Mimi and Reynard are right. Hood rat just means a kid in the hood.”
does not equal
“hood rats like fashion as much if not more than the next arbitrary grouping of people, i.e. paris is burning and hip hop in general”
Especially in the context of discussing a video of Black girls/women. If the actors had been White girls/women, would the term “hood rats” even come up? But even if it were a “color blind” remark, it would just mean that it was de-humanizing a class more than a race. “Post-Racial” means Somebody doesn’t want to talk about it any more. And, yeah, anyone want to deconstruct the words Harmony puts in the hood rat mouths…? At least the lead hoot rat has big tits and a slender form, right? Makes it easier to imagine fucking her… which turns your contempt into something useful.
Also: *Jesus*, Jesus: I was born in LA and spent the first 30 years of my life (age 3-13 in a Chicago ghetto) living in the US. Don’t need a glossary on racist/classist Americanology.
The term isn’t evil in and of itself, but the sentence reveals all kinds of sinister shit. And so does covering for it. No one here, obviously, wants to bother with talking about that (the various Bros would prefer to keep high-five-ing each other in the Bro Bubble: I get it). No problem.
Now somebody please type mean, mean anger-words VERY HARD so we can hit the re-set button on the Bro Bubble and the high-fives can kick back in.
LIKE
that’s understandable. mister lonely seems more like a slow, sad comedy with lot of really beautiful images, but not enough to make it work in either of those ways that you described. but, i think the praying nun falling toward the earth is one of my favorite images i’ve ever seen.
“Steven, Mimi and Reynard are right. Hood rat just means a kid in the hood.”
does not equal
“hood rats like fashion as much if not more than the next arbitrary grouping of people, i.e. paris is burning and hip hop in general”
Especially in the context of discussing a video of Black girls/women. If the actors had been White girls/women, would the term “hood rats” even come up? But even if it were a “color blind” remark, it would just mean that it was de-humanizing a class more than a race. “Post-Racial” means Somebody doesn’t want to talk about it any more. And, yeah, anyone want to deconstruct the words Harmony puts in the hood rat mouths…? At least the lead hoot rat has big tits and a slender form, right? Makes it easier to imagine fucking her… which turns your contempt into something useful.
Also: *Jesus*, Jesus: I was born in LA and spent the first 30 years of my life (age 3-13 in a Chicago ghetto) living in the US. Don’t need a glossary on racist/classist Americanology.
The term isn’t evil in and of itself, but the sentence reveals all kinds of sinister shit. And so does covering for it. No one here, obviously, wants to bother with talking about that (the various Bros would prefer to keep high-five-ing each other in the Bro Bubble: I get it). No problem.
Now somebody please type mean, mean anger-words VERY HARD so we can hit the re-set button on the Bro Bubble and the high-fives can kick back in.
that’s understandable. mister lonely seems more like a slow, sad comedy with lot of really beautiful images, but not enough to make it work in either of those ways that you described. but, i think the praying nun falling toward the earth is one of my favorite images i’ve ever seen.
hey augustine, dont you get vertigo spending so much time perched up on that high horse of yours?
Hey Steven-
I hear what you are saying, and agree completely with your query “If the actors had been White girls/women, would the term “hood rats” even come up?”
If they had been white, they might have been called “mall rats”. Different venue, same small furry animal. I think perhaps you give the word “rat” too much weight here. I mean, guys call each other “dog” and it’s not de-humanizing, I don’t think. (To me, it’s a compliment, actually!) When my husband calls me “pussycat”, believe me, it is with the utmost affection. OK, here’s another tack – maybe de-humanizing is a good thing if de-humanizing means shedding the uglier parts of “human nature”. Some people, I would like much more if they acted less like themselves and more like my dogs – loyal, affectionate, happy to see me when I come to the door. Willing to dance the merengue in a silly dress with joy and complete absence of self-consciousness.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc9xq-TVyHI&feature=player_embedded
” “Post-Racial” means Somebody doesn’t want to talk about it any more. ”
We’re talking about it here. I “talk about it” practically every day of my working life. (OK, I work part time, so at least once a week.) Oakland School Board meetings (I’ve attended my share, until they laid me off 18 month ago) are chock full of these discussions, always intelligent, respectful and important. The board room reflects Oakland’s demographics – black, white, Latino & Asian in almost equal proportion. As I’ve said elsewhere, the issues are complex, as are my thoughts and feelings.
“And, yeah, anyone want to deconstruct the words Harmony puts in the hood rat mouths…?”
When I watched the video, I assumed that the words were the girl’s words. But I could be wrong. It would be interesting to know who put those words together.
“At least the lead hoot rat has big tits and a slender form, right? Makes it easier to imagine fucking her… which turns your contempt into something useful.”
This thought never entered my mind. I did notice that they were beautiful young women and that the clothes looked good on them. But then I “like” fashion but am also “conflicted” about fashion, girls & body image, etc etc etc. Again, a complicated issue.
I am not trying to pick any fights here, and I am certainly not high-fiving anyone. I have nothing but respect for you, Steven, and the words you offer here at HTMLG. Like I’ve also said elsewhere, yours are the only TL;DR comments I actually read! You are obviously very thoughtful and intelligent and not afraid to speak your mind, three of my favorite attributes in a person.
[…] Yesterday, Reynard started a conversation about the word hoodrat, which is funny in its own way, because the stated definition of hoodrat seemed to imply that a hoodrat is just a hipster of another color, maybe a specific geographic location based on socioeconomics. […]
This is Nashville.
Here is one of the locations (if anybody cares), the scene where they are standing under the sign that says “Electric.” It’s kind of a landmark and near the river so you can see it for miles.
We almost bought a ping pong table from him when he had a yard sale.
Oh crap,
here’s the link:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=36.176828,-86.776698&num=1&t=h&sll=36.16589,-86.784443&sspn=0.28852,0.512238&ie=UTF8&ll=36.176951,-86.775781&spn=0,0.001029&z=20&layer=c&cbll=36.176931,-86.776018&panoid=znyAU0HA_vwqq52fGkUV4Q&cbp=12,216.84,,0,-5.82
again, if anybody cares…
hey augustine, dont you get vertigo spending so much time perched up on that high horse of yours?
Esteemed Mimi:
“If they had been white, they might have been called “mall rats”. Different venue, same small furry animal.”
Well, except “mall rats” don’t issue from a subset of the congenital underclass that’s still so anathematized and quarantined that Reynard could use the term “hood rat” here with little fear of having a “hood rat” read it. When was the last time Reynard used the words “Kike” or “Chink” on this site, do you suppose? Uh, never? Wonder why… ?
Again: it wasn’t the term, in-and-of-itself… it was the all-too-fucking-familiar sense of “Us” and “The Amusing Other” Reynard indulged in with his ignorant comment (FYI, Rey: “Paris Burning” is a different subculture), delivered with the perfect confidence of a casual bigot who fancies himself an “expert” on the topic of the Lesser Orders.
And, no, that girl did not come up with the dialogue. That’s not how most filmmakers work (unless it’s Cassavetes with seasoned actors or Herzog with his two idiot savants; even HK didn’t let his narrator wing it in Gummo) and most people don’t sound like they’re reading from a script while describing themselves with charming faux-naif-yet-visionary lyricism. But I liked it when the Queen “hood rat” confessed that sometimes she and her crew “act like wild animals”… I wonder whose crypto-racist worldview *that* came from, eh? Laugh.
I’m not for banning words… I’m for using them better or more consciously. If someone fucks up in that regard, people should be willing to step in and help them. My pleasure.
Hey Steven-
I hear what you are saying, and agree completely with your query “If the actors had been White girls/women, would the term “hood rats” even come up?”
If they had been white, they might have been called “mall rats”. Different venue, same small furry animal. I think perhaps you give the word “rat” too much weight here. I mean, guys call each other “dog” and it’s not de-humanizing, I don’t think. (To me, it’s a compliment, actually!) When my husband calls me “pussycat”, believe me, it is with the utmost affection. OK, here’s another tack – maybe de-humanizing is a good thing if de-humanizing means shedding the uglier parts of “human nature”. Some people, I would like much more if they acted less like themselves and more like my dogs – loyal, affectionate, happy to see me when I come to the door. Willing to dance the merengue in a silly dress with joy and complete absence of self-consciousness.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc9xq-TVyHI&feature=player_embedded
” “Post-Racial” means Somebody doesn’t want to talk about it any more. ”
We’re talking about it here. I “talk about it” practically every day of my working life. (OK, I work part time, so at least once a week.) Oakland School Board meetings (I’ve attended my share, until they laid me off 18 month ago) are chock full of these discussions, always intelligent, respectful and important. The board room reflects Oakland’s demographics – black, white, Latino & Asian in almost equal proportion. As I’ve said elsewhere, the issues are complex, as are my thoughts and feelings.
“And, yeah, anyone want to deconstruct the words Harmony puts in the hood rat mouths…?”
When I watched the video, I assumed that the words were the girl’s words. But I could be wrong. It would be interesting to know who put those words together.
“At least the lead hoot rat has big tits and a slender form, right? Makes it easier to imagine fucking her… which turns your contempt into something useful.”
This thought never entered my mind. I did notice that they were beautiful young women and that the clothes looked good on them. But then I “like” fashion but am also “conflicted” about fashion, girls & body image, etc etc etc. Again, a complicated issue.
I am not trying to pick any fights here, and I am certainly not high-fiving anyone. I have nothing but respect for you, Steven, and the words you offer here at HTMLG. Like I’ve also said elsewhere, yours are the only TL;DR comments I actually read! You are obviously very thoughtful and intelligent and not afraid to speak your mind, three of my favorite attributes in a person.
Most Honorable Steven-
Again, I hear you. I do value your input/perspective so much, I hope you know.
“….here with little fear of having a “hood rat” read it ”
I like HTMLG for so many reasons, and would love to see more and broader conversations like this one, here and elsewhere, and more inclusive, with words used better and more consciously. Better and better, yes. I know *I’m* *always* learning.
By very odd coincidence, just yesterday in the class I taught we (my students and I) read “Growltiger’s Last Stand” by T.S. Eliot, a poem that includes the word “Chinks”. (Did I silently squirm just a little? Sure.) This was followed by a somewhat lively discussion…….. My students can be rather shy, actually…….. But it was good…….
So the conversation continues.
Let’s fight the good fight.
PS – Interesting about the girls’ dialogue…… Thanks.
Guru Mimi!
TS Eliot? That famous philo-Semite? Luvly!
sorry… forgot to feign bored detachment… with a “neutral facial expression”… because nothing matters… sorry…
(erratum: before some enterprising dirty-flame-fighter exploits the typo: “Paris is Burning”)
This is Nashville.
Here is one of the locations (if anybody cares), the scene where they are standing under the sign that says “Electric.” It’s kind of a landmark and near the river so you can see it for miles.
We almost bought a ping pong table from him when he had a yard sale.
Oh crap,
here’s the link:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=36.176828,-86.776698&num=1&t=h&sll=36.16589,-86.784443&sspn=0.28852,0.512238&ie=UTF8&ll=36.176951,-86.775781&spn=0,0.001029&z=20&layer=c&cbll=36.176931,-86.776018&panoid=znyAU0HA_vwqq52fGkUV4Q&cbp=12,216.84,,0,-5.82
again, if anybody cares…
well try harder next time augustine, because youre really beginning to bore me.
you dont matter, i know that.
Esteemed Mimi:
“If they had been white, they might have been called “mall rats”. Different venue, same small furry animal.”
Well, except “mall rats” don’t issue from a subset of the congenital underclass that’s still so anathematized and quarantined that Reynard could use the term “hood rat” here with little fear of having a “hood rat” read it. When was the last time Reynard used the words “Kike” or “Chink” on this site, do you suppose? Uh, never? Wonder why… ?
Again: it wasn’t the term, in-and-of-itself… it was the all-too-fucking-familiar sense of “Us” and “The Amusing Other” Reynard indulged in with his ignorant comment (FYI, Rey: “Paris Burning” is a different subculture), delivered with the perfect confidence of a casual bigot who fancies himself an “expert” on the topic of the Lesser Orders.
And, no, that girl did not come up with the dialogue. That’s not how most filmmakers work (unless it’s Cassavetes with seasoned actors or Herzog with his two idiot savants; even HK didn’t let his narrator wing it in Gummo) and most people don’t sound like they’re reading from a script while describing themselves with charming faux-naif-yet-visionary lyricism. But I liked it when the Queen “hood rat” confessed that sometimes she and her crew “act like wild animals”… I wonder whose crypto-racist worldview *that* came from, eh? Laugh.
I’m not for banning words… I’m for using them better or more consciously. If someone fucks up in that regard, people should be willing to step in and help them. My pleasure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3UsvLyu3N0&p=50E437A7AC6B1342&index=4&playnext=4
Hey guys,
Nice to see y’all getting along. I started responding to this this a.m., Steven, and hit the wrong button and lost the whole thing. I don’t really have the energy or time to get into it again in depth — from across the spectrum of race, class, gender, etc. — but I have been thinking about my views occasionally throughout the day and in brief they are as follows:
— hood rat, vato, homeboy, homegirl, riotgrrl, ghetto booty, white trash… They each carry with them a variety of connotations and just as with as all uses of language different readers will get different images from them. To me, hood rat is not a diss. It conveys particular behaviors. If black girls are hanging in an alley, slugging down forties and beatin’ on tires, I dunno… hood rat seems appropriate. Would the same name work for white girls? Maybe yes, maybe no. Depends. Lynyrd Skynyrd sings about living in the ghetto. Is that redneck, white trash, or hood rat? Is the difference Jack Daniels or St. Ides? Does it matter so much? I dunno. I don’t have a problem with any of it, but I can appreciate that you may. I’m drawn to “white trash” girls from connects in my past. I think that term is infinitely more derogatory but I’ll still use it when it applies and not in a wholly pejorative way.
— Race is a construct, designed by those in power to oppress those who are not, and yet there’s no such thing as post-racial. Not really. Not in America. Not on Planet Earth.
— I don’t see the dehumanizing aspect at all in hood rat or ghetto booty, etc. Depends on the context, tone, intention, of course. But it’s just a slang to sling, in my way of using such terms. I think Mimi pointed that out sweetly.
— Also, the statement about the bodies of the women and contempt turning into something useful b/c you want to fuck them… whoa, cowboy! One, if I had called the women hood rats, it wouldn’t have implied contempt. Not at all. Man, I’ve called myself a hood rat before. Two, it’s not the boobs (though I’m not complaining about the curves): it’s the Afros! And that’s b/c they are beautiful and powerful and a testament to non-conformity and Black Power of the ’70s and hip-hop now and natural Mother Africa connects, not pressed straight w/ chemicals or dyed to meet some Mary J. Blige pop princess commercial appeal, etc. — which, for me, is a turn-on. I hope that’s acceptable. It’s just how I roll, St. Augustine.
— Like Mimi, I appreciate the linguistic, cultural and moral challenges you bring to the HTMLG table. And really, the stuff we’re talking about requires a book to cover all the bases. But it’s now 4:30pm on a Friday afternoon in the sunshiny Northern Californian ghetto of Oaktown, USA, and I’m gonna get my drink on w/ my hood rat homies.
Peace, St. Steven.
— *Jesus* Jesus (I know…)
Most Honorable Steven-
Again, I hear you. I do value your input/perspective so much, I hope you know.
“….here with little fear of having a “hood rat” read it ”
I like HTMLG for so many reasons, and would love to see more and broader conversations like this one, here and elsewhere, and more inclusive, with words used better and more consciously. Better and better, yes. I know *I’m* *always* learning.
By very odd coincidence, just yesterday in the class I taught we (my students and I) read “Growltiger’s Last Stand” by T.S. Eliot, a poem that includes the word “Chinks”. (Did I silently squirm just a little? Sure.) This was followed by a somewhat lively discussion…….. My students can be rather shy, actually…….. But it was good…….
So the conversation continues.
Let’s fight the good fight.
PS – Interesting about the girls’ dialogue…… Thanks.
mimi and jesus, Steven might mean that “dehumanization” happens through language usage without awareness or intention of cruelty on the part of the user or community of users.
White trash is an excellent example of this insidiousness. “White trash” is an anti-black phrase – because it connotes ‘white people who act like black people are‘. Evidence: we have the phrase ‘white trash’, and you might hear ‘Mexican trash’ or ‘Samoan trash’ or (even) ‘Jew trash’, but I (anyway) have never heard – among the, how many, dozens of anti-black slurs I’ve heard – the phrase ‘black trash’ – because the phrase is redundant.
One might say, ‘we have other words that mean “black trash”.’ But this objection doesn’t answer the question of the specific detonation latent in the phrase ‘white trash’: ‘(specifically) white trash’.
One might also say that “black trash” has been expressed – why, several times! One might not understand the non-unanimity, the internal (tiny) variation, of ideology. One might be a dingbat.
You see what I mean? – it doesn’t matter that the person who says ‘white trash’ intends contempt for those white people; the sneer itself ‘intends’ contempt for black people.
Guru Mimi!
TS Eliot? That famous philo-Semite? Luvly!
sorry… forgot to feign bored detachment… with a “neutral facial expression”… because nothing matters… sorry…
(erratum: before some enterprising dirty-flame-fighter exploits the typo: “Paris is Burning”)
deadgod: that’s a powerful dissection. i’m convinced.
still, language and its meanings are fluid, you have to admit. and i don’t know that in 2010 ‘white trash’ means anything other than ‘white trash,’ at least when i use it among the people i use it with and with the tone of my voice. for the record, it’s not like i walk around whaling on people or judging them. that’s not how i am. my use? i freely admit to liking the look of white trash girls from a purely aesthetic perspective, if that makes any sense, based, i’m well aware, on adolescent experiences from where i grew up.
i do, however, agree with your assessment of the term’s origins. that makes a lot of sense and i never thought of it like that before. but i don’t think the term — again, spoken only by myself in very particular environments (to friends) — implies anything other than a superficial (often amorous… i know, i’m a sick sick boy) assessment of a particular type of american-ignorant behavior or appearance. know what i’m sayin’?
well try harder next time augustine, because youre really beginning to bore me.
you dont matter, i know that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3UsvLyu3N0&p=50E437A7AC6B1342&index=4&playnext=4
Hey guys,
Nice to see y’all getting along. I started responding to this this a.m., Steven, and hit the wrong button and lost the whole thing. I don’t really have the energy or time to get into it again in depth — from across the spectrum of race, class, gender, etc. — but I have been thinking about my views occasionally throughout the day and in brief they are as follows:
— hood rat, vato, homeboy, homegirl, riotgrrl, ghetto booty, white trash… They each carry with them a variety of connotations and just as with as all uses of language different readers will get different images from them. To me, hood rat is not a diss. It conveys particular behaviors. If black girls are hanging in an alley, slugging down forties and beatin’ on tires, I dunno… hood rat seems appropriate. Would the same name work for white girls? Maybe yes, maybe no. Depends. Lynyrd Skynyrd sings about living in the ghetto. Is that redneck, white trash, or hood rat? Is the difference Jack Daniels or St. Ides? Does it matter so much? I dunno. I don’t have a problem with any of it, but I can appreciate that you may. I’m drawn to “white trash” girls from connects in my past. I think that term is infinitely more derogatory but I’ll still use it when it applies and not in a wholly pejorative way.
— Race is a construct, designed by those in power to oppress those who are not, and yet there’s no such thing as post-racial. Not really. Not in America. Not on Planet Earth.
— I don’t see the dehumanizing aspect at all in hood rat or ghetto booty, etc. Depends on the context, tone, intention, of course. But it’s just a slang to sling, in my way of using such terms. I think Mimi pointed that out sweetly.
— Also, the statement about the bodies of the women and contempt turning into something useful b/c you want to fuck them… whoa, cowboy! One, if I had called the women hood rats, it wouldn’t have implied contempt. Not at all. Man, I’ve called myself a hood rat before. Two, it’s not the boobs (though I’m not complaining about the curves): it’s the Afros! And that’s b/c they are beautiful and powerful and a testament to non-conformity and Black Power of the ’70s and hip-hop now and natural Mother Africa connects, not pressed straight w/ chemicals or dyed to meet some Mary J. Blige pop princess commercial appeal, etc. — which, for me, is a turn-on. I hope that’s acceptable. It’s just how I roll, St. Augustine.
— Like Mimi, I appreciate the linguistic, cultural and moral challenges you bring to the HTMLG table. And really, the stuff we’re talking about requires a book to cover all the bases. But it’s now 4:30pm on a Friday afternoon in the sunshiny Northern Californian ghetto of Oaktown, USA, and I’m gonna get my drink on w/ my hood rat homies.
Peace, St. Steven.
— *Jesus* Jesus (I know…)
mimi and jesus, Steven might mean that “dehumanization” happens through language usage without awareness or intention of cruelty on the part of the user or community of users.
White trash is an excellent example of this insidiousness. “White trash” is an anti-black phrase – because it connotes ‘white people who act like black people are‘. Evidence: we have the phrase ‘white trash’, and you might hear ‘Mexican trash’ or ‘Samoan trash’ or (even) ‘Jew trash’, but I (anyway) have never heard – among the, how many, dozens of anti-black slurs I’ve heard – the phrase ‘black trash’ – because the phrase is redundant.
One might say, ‘we have other words that mean “black trash”.’ But this objection doesn’t answer the question of the specific detonation latent in the phrase ‘white trash’: ‘(specifically) white trash’.
One might also say that “black trash” has been expressed – why, several times! One might not understand the non-unanimity, the internal (tiny) variation, of ideology. One might be a dingbat.
You see what I mean? – it doesn’t matter that the person who says ‘white trash’ intends contempt for those white people; the sneer itself ‘intends’ contempt for black people.
deadgod: that’s a powerful dissection. i’m convinced.
still, language and its meanings are fluid, you have to admit. and i don’t know that in 2010 ‘white trash’ means anything other than ‘white trash,’ at least when i use it among the people i use it with and with the tone of my voice. for the record, it’s not like i walk around whaling on people or judging them. that’s not how i am. my use? i freely admit to liking the look of white trash girls from a purely aesthetic perspective, if that makes any sense, based, i’m well aware, on adolescent experiences from where i grew up.
i do, however, agree with your assessment of the term’s origins. that makes a lot of sense and i never thought of it like that before. but i don’t think the term — again, spoken only by myself in very particular environments (to friends) — implies anything other than a superficial (often amorous… i know, i’m a sick sick boy) assessment of a particular type of american-ignorant behavior or appearance. know what i’m sayin’?
Fucking excellent explic., deaders! And Jesus: I didn’t mean to say that *your* libido is contempt-driven re: the high-end fashion vid in question but as long as we’re discussing Afros: when I saw the trailers for the Star Trek reboot I thought: after all these centuries Uhura is *still* straightening her hair (though maybe she’s just a mulatto).
But deaders so nails it I want to dwell on the perfection of his comment for a few more minutes…
I agree strongly that ” “dehumanization” happens through language usage without awareness or intention of cruelty on the part of the user or community of users.”
Thus the advocacy of “using them (words) better or more consciously”. Awareness.
And I agree with Jesus that a lot “Depends on the context, tone, intention” etc, etc.
And yes, Sensei SA, _that_ TS Eliot. My Eastern European Jewish ancestors (all 25% of them) are rolling in their graves.
My Asian ancestors (all 25% of them) are too rolling in their graves, at the intonation of “Chinks”.
My Southern Illinois Republican ancestors (all 25% of them) are wondering what the hell I’m doing in Berkeley…..
And the rest of them (including my Cherokee…. Oklahoma, baby…..), well, I haven’t had my coffee yet…..
Comrade DJ Sensei Mimi:
So you’re a multi-mutt like I am… very cool. My stats: West African, North African, French, Scottish, Dutch, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Cherokee and Irish… not to mention my half-Korean half-sister and my half-East Indian cousins and my half-Jewish maternal great Aunt. My children (I have a 30-year-old son and a 4-year-old daughter) are beyond quantification on that level…
Fucking excellent explic., deaders! And Jesus: I didn’t mean to say that *your* libido is contempt-driven re: the high-end fashion vid in question but as long as we’re discussing Afros: when I saw the trailers for the Star Trek reboot I thought: after all these centuries Uhura is *still* straightening her hair (though maybe she’s just a mulatto).
But deaders so nails it I want to dwell on the perfection of his comment for a few more minutes…
Love it, y’all. L-O-V-E.
I agree strongly that ” “dehumanization” happens through language usage without awareness or intention of cruelty on the part of the user or community of users.”
Thus the advocacy of “using them (words) better or more consciously”. Awareness.
And I agree with Jesus that a lot “Depends on the context, tone, intention” etc, etc.
And yes, Sensei SA, _that_ TS Eliot. My Eastern European Jewish ancestors (all 25% of them) are rolling in their graves.
My Asian ancestors (all 25% of them) are too rolling in their graves, at the intonation of “Chinks”.
My Southern Illinois Republican ancestors (all 25% of them) are wondering what the hell I’m doing in Berkeley…..
And the rest of them (including my Cherokee…. Oklahoma, baby…..), well, I haven’t had my coffee yet…..
Speaking of Stupendous Afro fantasies:
http://staugustine2.wordpress.com/2010/04/23/the-endless-thread-6-0/#comment-3493
Comrade DJ Sensei Mimi:
So you’re a multi-mutt like I am… very cool. My stats: West African, North African, French, Scottish, Dutch, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Cherokee and Irish… not to mention my half-Korean half-sister and my half-East Indian cousins and my half-Jewish maternal great Aunt. My children (I have a 30-year-old son and a 4-year-old daughter) are beyond quantification on that level…
Love it, y’all. L-O-V-E.
Speaking of Stupendous Afro fantasies:
http://staugustine2.wordpress.com/2010/04/23/the-endless-thread-6-0/#comment-3493
@jag et al –
Oh my god, purely by chance, by happy chance, today I saw my first ever real life Banksy while walking around SF Chinatown – southwest corner, Grant and Commercial, north-facing exterior wall, doctor with stethoscope, doctor bag at feet. I just had to let you know!
http://www.highsnobiety.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/banksy-san-francisco-front.jpg
sorry, south _east_ corner
I get all turned around
@jag et al –
Oh my god, purely by chance, by happy chance, today I saw my first ever real life Banksy while walking around SF Chinatown – southwest corner, Grant and Commercial, north-facing exterior wall, doctor with stethoscope, doctor bag at feet. I just had to let you know!
http://www.highsnobiety.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/banksy-san-francisco-front.jpg
sorry, south _east_ corner
I get all turned around
I tol’ you they were around about town, Mimi! Super cool. Yeah, I should carry my camera more often, to compensate for my severely limited geographical acumen. I know there are some near my house… but where???
That’s alright, John. Thanks for posting that. Man, the world ain’t all that w/ Google maps on hand. Very cool.
I tol’ you they were around about town, Mimi! Super cool. Yeah, I should carry my camera more often, to compensate for my severely limited geographical acumen. I know there are some near my house… but where???
That’s alright, John. Thanks for posting that. Man, the world ain’t all that w/ Google maps on hand. Very cool.
I thought this article was a good discussion too:
http://www.racialicious.com/2010/09/21/on-the-seduction-of-proenza-schouler%E2%80%99s-act-da-fool/
[…] Yesterday, Reynard started a conversation about the word hoodrat, which is funny in its own way, because the stated definition of hoodrat seemed to imply that a hoodrat is just a hipster of another color, maybe a specific geographic location based on socioeconomics. […]