March 11th, 2010 / 4:24 pm
Snippets
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Extending auteur theory over to books, what authors with years and years of titles would you say have never published at least a semi-stinker? I think, immediately, Barry Hannah, Amy Hempel. Then I start to stall…

316 Comments

  1. Lincoln—

      Good question! What’s the cut-off, like 7 books or less?

  2. Lincoln—

      Good question! What’s the cut-off, like 7 books or less?

  3. Lincoln—

      I don’t think Barthelme ever wrote a stinker of a collection (though he has some stinker stories). Lydia Davis? Cormac McCarthy?

  4. Lincoln—

      I don’t think Barthelme ever wrote a stinker of a collection (though he has some stinker stories). Lydia Davis? Cormac McCarthy?

  5. Ken Baumann—

      Joyce.

  6. Ken Baumann—

      Joyce.

  7. Lincoln—

      Didn’t he only write one non-semi-stinker (oh yes, I went there)

  8. Blake Butler—

      i think the span of time would be more of a definition. like, to have been publishing 15, 20, 25 years… or anyway, to have a sizable body of work. or something

  9. Lincoln—

      Didn’t he only write one non-semi-stinker (oh yes, I went there)

  10. Blake Butler—

      i think the span of time would be more of a definition. like, to have been publishing 15, 20, 25 years… or anyway, to have a sizable body of work. or something

  11. christian—

      harry mathews

  12. christian—

      harry mathews

  13. Blake Butler—

      barthelme could be a good one. though yeah, some of the stories start to work less for me.

      lydia davis is hit or miss bigtime in that way to me too. varieties of disturbance is kind of a stinker

      mccarthy. hm. yeah, even the works i like least of his like ‘no country’ and ‘outer dark’, they are decent. even the border trilogy i get something out of, esp the third part. ‘no country’ is pretty close to a stinker though.

  14. Blake Butler—

      barthelme could be a good one. though yeah, some of the stories start to work less for me.

      lydia davis is hit or miss bigtime in that way to me too. varieties of disturbance is kind of a stinker

      mccarthy. hm. yeah, even the works i like least of his like ‘no country’ and ‘outer dark’, they are decent. even the border trilogy i get something out of, esp the third part. ‘no country’ is pretty close to a stinker though.

  15. Blake Butler—

      nice. i’ve only read 2 of his, but they were both fantastic. holds up across the board?

  16. Blake Butler—

      nice. i’ve only read 2 of his, but they were both fantastic. holds up across the board?

  17. Lincoln—

      I’ve read all of Barthelme’s work including his children’s book and nonfiction and all his official books are pretty awesome, though the story quality varies in a collection. The closest thing to a stinker is the Flying to America collection, but that’s because it is basically a collection of his worst stories (ie the stories he chose not to include in 40 and 60 stories) so I don’t think it counts.

  18. Lincoln—

      I’ve read all of Barthelme’s work including his children’s book and nonfiction and all his official books are pretty awesome, though the story quality varies in a collection. The closest thing to a stinker is the Flying to America collection, but that’s because it is basically a collection of his worst stories (ie the stories he chose not to include in 40 and 60 stories) so I don’t think it counts.

  19. Blake Butler—

      tho, i guess the point of auteur theory is that even seemingly lesser works of an auteur are important, and the onus is on the viewer, that the value is there, and must be found, because an auteur doesn’t make a mistake. that kind of changes the question, and the context of those books that seem to work less, esp. in the case of barthelme. i’d call barthelme an auteur. mccarthy too. i don’t know about davis.

  20. Blake Butler—

      tho, i guess the point of auteur theory is that even seemingly lesser works of an auteur are important, and the onus is on the viewer, that the value is there, and must be found, because an auteur doesn’t make a mistake. that kind of changes the question, and the context of those books that seem to work less, esp. in the case of barthelme. i’d call barthelme an auteur. mccarthy too. i don’t know about davis.

  21. Matthew Simmons—

      I don’t think Sam Lipsyte has missed yet. Three novels and one story collection.

  22. Matthew Simmons—

      I don’t think Sam Lipsyte has missed yet. Three novels and one story collection.

  23. Lincoln—

      Agreed, if he makes the cutoff.

  24. Matthew Simmons—

      Maybe not enough to count. Still.

      I can’t think of an Evenson book I don’t like.

  25. Lincoln—

      Agreed, if he makes the cutoff.

  26. Matthew Simmons—

      Maybe not enough to count. Still.

      I can’t think of an Evenson book I don’t like.

  27. David—

      i’d say the road qualifies as a stinker, but in the semi category, it has good moments

  28. David—

      i’d say the road qualifies as a stinker, but in the semi category, it has good moments

  29. Ben Brooks—

      jk rowling

  30. Ben Brooks—

      jk rowling

  31. Tanya—

      Blake, so how would this be applied to someone like Joyce Carol Oates, who’s written books upon books?

  32. Tanya—

      Blake, so how would this be applied to someone like Joyce Carol Oates, who’s written books upon books?

  33. Lincoln—

      You guys are listing the most famous and celebrated books by Davis and McCarthy as stinkers. I mean, I thought Varities of Disturbance was below par and The Road wasn’t nearly as good as McCarthy’s pre-boarder work, but hard to call them stinkers.

  34. Lincoln—

      You guys are listing the most famous and celebrated books by Davis and McCarthy as stinkers. I mean, I thought Varities of Disturbance was below par and The Road wasn’t nearly as good as McCarthy’s pre-boarder work, but hard to call them stinkers.

  35. Blake Butler—

      i liked the Road. i didn’t like No Country tho. It seemed more like a pulp novel than his other stuff, and haunted me not at all, which is the thing i best like about him: the haunting.

  36. Blake Butler—

      i liked the Road. i didn’t like No Country tho. It seemed more like a pulp novel than his other stuff, and haunted me not at all, which is the thing i best like about him: the haunting.

  37. Blake Butler—

      but in auteur theory, a ‘pulp nove with no haunting’ in his continuum takes on a different pull entirely. it still seems a lesser book to me than all the rest, but one could make an argument for why it exists in his arena.

      tanya, i havent read enough of Oates to talk about her at all, maybe someone else here is?

  38. Blake Butler—

      but in auteur theory, a ‘pulp nove with no haunting’ in his continuum takes on a different pull entirely. it still seems a lesser book to me than all the rest, but one could make an argument for why it exists in his arena.

      tanya, i havent read enough of Oates to talk about her at all, maybe someone else here is?

  39. David—

      abe, jane bowles, celine, coover, jim krusoe, thomas ligotti, robbe-grillet, saramago, joy williams, wallace

  40. David—

      abe, jane bowles, celine, coover, jim krusoe, thomas ligotti, robbe-grillet, saramago, joy williams, wallace

  41. David—

      oh yeah no country’s pretty ho-hum too, though the coen brothers managed to turn it into such a great film and i read it afterwards, so it’s always been hard for me to determine feelings on it cause of that, must have inspired them somehow

  42. David—

      oh yeah no country’s pretty ho-hum too, though the coen brothers managed to turn it into such a great film and i read it afterwards, so it’s always been hard for me to determine feelings on it cause of that, must have inspired them somehow

  43. David—

      yes evenson

  44. David—

      yes evenson

  45. davidpeak—

      ligotti for sure.

  46. davidpeak—

      ligotti for sure.

  47. David—

      the road isnt a stinker, it’s semi-stinker. i feel like it gets a lot more accolades than it deserves for being mccarthy prose in that setting. it’s like a movie with scenery that stands in for the cinematography or something. the ending irks me a lot, feels like a real reversal of a lot of the most meticulous and deeply felt things mccarthy put forward in other earlier books. and there’s the whole subplot with the wife which is just undercooked, more so cause her character is genuinely evocative and the most interesting thing in the book. but again great moments, like in the library. and when he paces the dark. and the subcellar with the human meat. and the bunker. so semi-stinker.

  48. David—

      the road isnt a stinker, it’s semi-stinker. i feel like it gets a lot more accolades than it deserves for being mccarthy prose in that setting. it’s like a movie with scenery that stands in for the cinematography or something. the ending irks me a lot, feels like a real reversal of a lot of the most meticulous and deeply felt things mccarthy put forward in other earlier books. and there’s the whole subplot with the wife which is just undercooked, more so cause her character is genuinely evocative and the most interesting thing in the book. but again great moments, like in the library. and when he paces the dark. and the subcellar with the human meat. and the bunker. so semi-stinker.

  49. christian—

      yeah, for me, everything that was written to be a book (including the story collection) holds up. not so sure about the kind of odds and ends stuff like “20 lines a day” tho, cause i haven’t read it.

  50. christian—

      yeah, for me, everything that was written to be a book (including the story collection) holds up. not so sure about the kind of odds and ends stuff like “20 lines a day” tho, cause i haven’t read it.

  51. Daniel—

      Pynchon.

      For me, the only question marks would be Vineland and Inherent Vice. They are lesser works, sure, but I think there is stuff in both of them worth exploring – strings that tie into the larger, better novels – and having read them, I felt like I understood his whole ‘deal’ a little better.

      Meh, maybe I’m wrong.

      I would second Joyce, too.

  52. Daniel—

      Pynchon.

      For me, the only question marks would be Vineland and Inherent Vice. They are lesser works, sure, but I think there is stuff in both of them worth exploring – strings that tie into the larger, better novels – and having read them, I felt like I understood his whole ‘deal’ a little better.

      Meh, maybe I’m wrong.

      I would second Joyce, too.

  53. stephen—

      i would disagree (understatement) haha… Joyce is the model of the perfect artistic development curve: seminal short story collection, seminal bildungsroman first novel, greatest novel of the century (encompasses all previous literary history, anticipates much to come), most challenging, consummate novel of the century (encompasses all of human history, much of the world’s languages). [I just ignore the play and poem collections, which I guess is cheating]

      i would also nominate beckett. but, to me, being an auteur doesn’t mean all your work is flawless, but rather that an auteur is a serious, important artist who imparts a distinctive stamp to all their work and creates an interrelating body of work. it would seem to me that such a person only does ‘interesting’ work, even if some works may be considered ‘semi-stinkers’ by some people.

      i also don’t think salinger had any stinkers (but i’m extremely biased, a self-diagnosed unapologetic salinger-holic).
      by my definition, a person like toni morrison is definitely an auteur, but she has more stinkers than winners, in my opinion.
      my definition of an anti-auteur is someone like dave eggers, whose work doesn’t have a set voice, objective, theme, or distinctive stamp.

  54. davidpeak—

      ohle?

      i haven’t read everything. but he just feels so solid when i think about him.

  55. stephen—

      i would disagree (understatement) haha… Joyce is the model of the perfect artistic development curve: seminal short story collection, seminal bildungsroman first novel, greatest novel of the century (encompasses all previous literary history, anticipates much to come), most challenging, consummate novel of the century (encompasses all of human history, much of the world’s languages). [I just ignore the play and poem collections, which I guess is cheating]

      i would also nominate beckett. but, to me, being an auteur doesn’t mean all your work is flawless, but rather that an auteur is a serious, important artist who imparts a distinctive stamp to all their work and creates an interrelating body of work. it would seem to me that such a person only does ‘interesting’ work, even if some works may be considered ‘semi-stinkers’ by some people.

      i also don’t think salinger had any stinkers (but i’m extremely biased, a self-diagnosed unapologetic salinger-holic).
      by my definition, a person like toni morrison is definitely an auteur, but she has more stinkers than winners, in my opinion.
      my definition of an anti-auteur is someone like dave eggers, whose work doesn’t have a set voice, objective, theme, or distinctive stamp.

  56. davidpeak—

      ohle?

      i haven’t read everything. but he just feels so solid when i think about him.

  57. Sasha—

      Richard Yates can do no wrong. [Although that American Book Review list of Top 40 Bad Books says otherwise, bah.] Raymond Carver. Lorrie Moore.

      Aaaand I’m stalling as well.

  58. Sasha—

      Richard Yates can do no wrong. [Although that American Book Review list of Top 40 Bad Books says otherwise, bah.] Raymond Carver. Lorrie Moore.

      Aaaand I’m stalling as well.

  59. stephen—

      on second thought, i don’t think salinger would even want to be associated with a concept like ‘auteur.’ he was kind of intentionally humble in his ambitions. and he only has one novel to his name. not really an auteur. never mind.

  60. stephen—

      on second thought, i don’t think salinger would even want to be associated with a concept like ‘auteur.’ he was kind of intentionally humble in his ambitions. and he only has one novel to his name. not really an auteur. never mind.

  61. Jhon Baker—

      That’s hilarious.

  62. Jhon Baker—

      That’s hilarious.

  63. Jhon Baker—

      What about people who wrote semi stinkers purposely for the entirety of their career? Does doing so intentionally make them non-stinkers or even worse?

  64. Jhon Baker—

      What about people who wrote semi stinkers purposely for the entirety of their career? Does doing so intentionally make them non-stinkers or even worse?

  65. Tony O'Neill—

      burroughs never wrote a stinker. even his lesser works were pretty much head and shoulders above what everbody else was doing.

  66. Tony O'Neill—

      burroughs never wrote a stinker. even his lesser works were pretty much head and shoulders above what everbody else was doing.

  67. davidpeak—

      yeah, i was thinking the same thing but then i remembered junky and all the early stories in interzone

  68. davidpeak—

      yeah, i was thinking the same thing but then i remembered junky and all the early stories in interzone

  69. Sasha—

      Ah, the Burden of Yeah-That’ll-Do Expectations.

  70. davidpeak—

      damn, i should clarify that i only think those two examples are weak when held up against what he was doing in soft machine and nova express and wild boys

  71. Sasha—

      Ah, the Burden of Yeah-That’ll-Do Expectations.

  72. davidpeak—

      damn, i should clarify that i only think those two examples are weak when held up against what he was doing in soft machine and nova express and wild boys

  73. stephen—

      you know, in film, where the whole auteur thing started, i feel like most auteurs have semi-stinkers, but what makes them auteurs is that most of their work has their indelible stamp and is ‘vital.’ they also often have distinctive personalities as artists. like a woody allen, a godard, an almodovar. they have their themes, their passions, and their unique stamp, and all of their work is at least interesting because of this. i mean, fellini was definitely an auteur, but ‘roma’ kinda sucks balls

  74. stephen—

      you know, in film, where the whole auteur thing started, i feel like most auteurs have semi-stinkers, but what makes them auteurs is that most of their work has their indelible stamp and is ‘vital.’ they also often have distinctive personalities as artists. like a woody allen, a godard, an almodovar. they have their themes, their passions, and their unique stamp, and all of their work is at least interesting because of this. i mean, fellini was definitely an auteur, but ‘roma’ kinda sucks balls

  75. Blake Butler—

      yeah, i kind of misappropriated the auteur thing on purpose. addressed it a little above. the point of the auteur is that the works that seem flawed are not, and the viewer/reader must find their centers. i like the idea. i guess there are two different questions at work here.

  76. Blake Butler—

      yeah, i kind of misappropriated the auteur thing on purpose. addressed it a little above. the point of the auteur is that the works that seem flawed are not, and the viewer/reader must find their centers. i like the idea. i guess there are two different questions at work here.

  77. Xian—

      I don’t think the auteur theory implies at all that an “auteur” is exempt from “stinkers” but rather it emphasized that films were the work of a singular creative visionary, the director, rather than a string of hacks (actors, screenwriters, designers, photographers, lighting people, editors, etc.) on studio contracts and that a director’s works were connected by a certain vision or style. Thus, in the quality lit game, all authors would be auteurs, unless you think the majority of the creativity is emanating from the offices of FSG, Knopf, or BlazeVox.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auteur_theory#Origin

      As for an author who never published a semi-stinker, Homer? Although there the auteur theory probably doesn’t apply.

  78. Xian—

      I don’t think the auteur theory implies at all that an “auteur” is exempt from “stinkers” but rather it emphasized that films were the work of a singular creative visionary, the director, rather than a string of hacks (actors, screenwriters, designers, photographers, lighting people, editors, etc.) on studio contracts and that a director’s works were connected by a certain vision or style. Thus, in the quality lit game, all authors would be auteurs, unless you think the majority of the creativity is emanating from the offices of FSG, Knopf, or BlazeVox.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auteur_theory#Origin

      As for an author who never published a semi-stinker, Homer? Although there the auteur theory probably doesn’t apply.

  79. stephen—

      o ok blake, i see what you mean by that. in fact, now that i think about it, while i wouldn’t rate ‘roma’ as fellini’s best work, the motorcycle scenes are sweet, and there’s some kind of commentary on the city of rome, hippie culture going on that probably went over my head. and ‘eyes wide shut’ i think is a perfect example of a work by an auteur that can be underestimated or that plenty of people ‘didn’t get,’ when in fact it has a lot to offer and is cohesive, a fitting final statement for a legendary auteur.

  80. stephen—

      o ok blake, i see what you mean by that. in fact, now that i think about it, while i wouldn’t rate ‘roma’ as fellini’s best work, the motorcycle scenes are sweet, and there’s some kind of commentary on the city of rome, hippie culture going on that probably went over my head. and ‘eyes wide shut’ i think is a perfect example of a work by an auteur that can be underestimated or that plenty of people ‘didn’t get,’ when in fact it has a lot to offer and is cohesive, a fitting final statement for a legendary auteur.

  81. Enough—

      Lee K. Abbott, Joan Didion, Yasunari Kawabata, William Gay, Lydia Davis, Diane Williams, Bernard Malamud, Franz Kafka. I note, though, that these aren’t writers who took massive risks outside their established aesthetic, except Malamud. I admire writers who keep trying something extraordinarily new, even if it means the occasional stinker.

  82. Enough—

      Lee K. Abbott, Joan Didion, Yasunari Kawabata, William Gay, Lydia Davis, Diane Williams, Bernard Malamud, Franz Kafka. I note, though, that these aren’t writers who took massive risks outside their established aesthetic, except Malamud. I admire writers who keep trying something extraordinarily new, even if it means the occasional stinker.

  83. Neil—

      Yeah, we definitely need to define what we’re talking about with “auteur.” Cahiers du Cinema people would be confused if they read this thread, where it seems like the important criterion for determining in auteur is lack of bad work. That doesn’t ring true. Blake addresses this above by saying he misappropriated the term on purpose. But why? Couldn’t you just as easily ask this: What author hasn’t written a bad work?

      Also, all authors are auteurs. The theory states that directors are the true authors of movies instead of scriptwriters or producers or editors, etc. This is important because film is colloborative, and the question of who is the author is ambiguous. Not so with books. The author is the author. The auteur is the auteur.

      Interesting question, though. I’ll second Daniel in saying that Pynchon seems to have a lack of bad work (although I haven’t read Vineland) Borges, and Barth.

  84. Neil—

      Yeah, we definitely need to define what we’re talking about with “auteur.” Cahiers du Cinema people would be confused if they read this thread, where it seems like the important criterion for determining in auteur is lack of bad work. That doesn’t ring true. Blake addresses this above by saying he misappropriated the term on purpose. But why? Couldn’t you just as easily ask this: What author hasn’t written a bad work?

      Also, all authors are auteurs. The theory states that directors are the true authors of movies instead of scriptwriters or producers or editors, etc. This is important because film is colloborative, and the question of who is the author is ambiguous. Not so with books. The author is the author. The auteur is the auteur.

      Interesting question, though. I’ll second Daniel in saying that Pynchon seems to have a lack of bad work (although I haven’t read Vineland) Borges, and Barth.

  85. stephen—

      the main lesson i draw from auteurs is: be yourself, on purpose, through and through and through

  86. stephen—

      the main lesson i draw from auteurs is: be yourself, on purpose, through and through and through

  87. Blake Butler—

      exactly. the guy i took a class from who was huge on the auteur thing talked about Eyes Wide Shut just about every single day. he said it contained all films, ever. he was kinda a dick, but i liked him.

  88. Blake Butler—

      exactly. the guy i took a class from who was huge on the auteur thing talked about Eyes Wide Shut just about every single day. he said it contained all films, ever. he was kinda a dick, but i liked him.

  89. stephen—

      oh wow, i did not know that. wouldn’t surprise me. there definitely seems to be some sort of parody/not-parody of a million mainstream movies and their endings in the ending of ‘eyes wide shut.’ kubrick is such a smart, slippery dude, haha… did anyone else want to see more of that prostitute character played by Vinessa Shaw (also in ‘two lovers’)? she is such a captivating actress, wish she had bigger roles.

  90. stephen—

      oh wow, i did not know that. wouldn’t surprise me. there definitely seems to be some sort of parody/not-parody of a million mainstream movies and their endings in the ending of ‘eyes wide shut.’ kubrick is such a smart, slippery dude, haha… did anyone else want to see more of that prostitute character played by Vinessa Shaw (also in ‘two lovers’)? she is such a captivating actress, wish she had bigger roles.

  91. Blake Butler—

      i guess i misappropriated it specifically because of what you’re saying (which i like): that all authors are auteurs. so then asking which of them have stayed truest to the idea of lack of bad work. surely would have been easier to ask straight ahead. it just kinda fell out that way. :P

      borges, definitely.

      Vineland, that’s definitely a slip up for me with Pynchon. just kinda.. boring, comparatively.

  92. Blake Butler—

      i guess i misappropriated it specifically because of what you’re saying (which i like): that all authors are auteurs. so then asking which of them have stayed truest to the idea of lack of bad work. surely would have been easier to ask straight ahead. it just kinda fell out that way. :P

      borges, definitely.

      Vineland, that’s definitely a slip up for me with Pynchon. just kinda.. boring, comparatively.

  93. alec niedenthal—

      Barth? Really? Sot-Weed Factor was a snoozefest for me, and I enjoyed the couple of others I’d read by him.

  94. alec niedenthal—

      Barth? Really? Sot-Weed Factor was a snoozefest for me, and I enjoyed the couple of others I’d read by him.

  95. darby—

      i didn’t like crying lot a lot. it was too thin and its genre elements gleamed too brightly. maybe im used to fat pynchon.

  96. darby—

      what would one say a beckett stinker is? murphy?

  97. alec niedenthal—

      Dennis Cooper? Come on, guys.

      Saul Bellow.

  98. darby—

      i didn’t like crying lot a lot. it was too thin and its genre elements gleamed too brightly. maybe im used to fat pynchon.

  99. darby—

      what would one say a beckett stinker is? murphy?

  100. alec niedenthal—

      Dennis Cooper? Come on, guys.

      Saul Bellow.

  101. alec niedenthal—

      Did you guys like Against the Day? I couldn’t get past the first hundred pages or so. That book was like a fifty-pound Ambien for me. I like Pynchon when he’s daring.

  102. alec niedenthal—

      Did you guys like Against the Day? I couldn’t get past the first hundred pages or so. That book was like a fifty-pound Ambien for me. I like Pynchon when he’s daring.

  103. Blake Butler—

      DC 4 sure.

      Bellow, eh.

  104. Blake Butler—

      DC 4 sure.

      Bellow, eh.

  105. Blake Butler—

      i tried and couldn’t. but to be fair, it took me 3 or 4 false starts before i broke page 100 of Gravity’s Rainbow, and then it blew my head off. i mean to try it again.

  106. Blake Butler—

      i tried and couldn’t. but to be fair, it took me 3 or 4 false starts before i broke page 100 of Gravity’s Rainbow, and then it blew my head off. i mean to try it again.

  107. Blake Butler—

      i like Murphy. i think Beckett is a no stinker.

  108. Blake Butler—

      i like Murphy. i think Beckett is a no stinker.

  109. Neil—

      Sot-Weed Factor is probably my favorite book. Reading Lipsyte’s interview where he mentioned that books were allowed to be hilarious and still considered literary in the 1960s seemed to be commenting directly on Barth to me. It’s a little slow and very long, but I’ve never laughed so much in reading a book.

  110. alec niedenthal—

      No, I take that back. Mr. Sammler’s Planet is a shit book. Beautifully written, but shit.

      William Gass, maybe?

  111. Neil—

      Sot-Weed Factor is probably my favorite book. Reading Lipsyte’s interview where he mentioned that books were allowed to be hilarious and still considered literary in the 1960s seemed to be commenting directly on Barth to me. It’s a little slow and very long, but I’ve never laughed so much in reading a book.

  112. alec niedenthal—

      No, I take that back. Mr. Sammler’s Planet is a shit book. Beautifully written, but shit.

      William Gass, maybe?

  113. alec niedenthal—

      It was funny, yeah, but I like Barth in smaller doses, where he’s more immediately devious (Lost in the Funhouse).

  114. alec niedenthal—

      It was funny, yeah, but I like Barth in smaller doses, where he’s more immediately devious (Lost in the Funhouse).

  115. Neil—

      You probably wouldn’t like Giles Goat Boy then. The one I’m working my way up to is Letters, which is intimidating as hell. It consists of letters that fictional characters from his previous books write to Barth. Apparently frustrating but maybe brilliant at the same time.

  116. Tony O'Neill—

      but they were still pretty great. i’d say junky still is better than much junkie-reportage novels published today, and his one came out in the 50s when the genre didnt even have a name.

      but yeah, burroughs only competition was himself, which is a pretty good position to be in.

  117. Neil—

      You probably wouldn’t like Giles Goat Boy then. The one I’m working my way up to is Letters, which is intimidating as hell. It consists of letters that fictional characters from his previous books write to Barth. Apparently frustrating but maybe brilliant at the same time.

  118. Tony O'Neill—

      but they were still pretty great. i’d say junky still is better than much junkie-reportage novels published today, and his one came out in the 50s when the genre didnt even have a name.

      but yeah, burroughs only competition was himself, which is a pretty good position to be in.

  119. Greg Gerke—

      His outlook changed. The man is seventy-something – I don’t think he had anywhere to go after Blood Meridian except to get softer, and softer is not a bad thing. So many people have failed in writing about the end of the world – he didn’t, he pulled it off.

  120. alec niedenthal—

      Yeah, I’ve had GGB for a while but I probably won’t get to it. I’ve heard mixed things about Letters–that it was his attempt at a Gravity’s Rainbow, but that it’s sort of a stinker. Isn’t that the book he was working on in Chimera?

  121. Sean—

      Harper Lee

  122. Greg Gerke—

      His outlook changed. The man is seventy-something – I don’t think he had anywhere to go after Blood Meridian except to get softer, and softer is not a bad thing. So many people have failed in writing about the end of the world – he didn’t, he pulled it off.

  123. alec niedenthal—

      Yeah, I’ve had GGB for a while but I probably won’t get to it. I’ve heard mixed things about Letters–that it was his attempt at a Gravity’s Rainbow, but that it’s sort of a stinker. Isn’t that the book he was working on in Chimera?

  124. Sean—

      Harper Lee

  125. Greg Gerke—

      Murphy is hilarious.

  126. ZZZZIPP—

      NO BOOK WAS EVER MORE OF AN UNREWARDING SLOG THAN “COMING SOON!!!”

      THOUGH PARTZZ OF IT ZZZIPP STUCK IN ZZZIPP

  127. Greg Gerke—

      Murphy is hilarious.

  128. ZZZZIPP—

      NO BOOK WAS EVER MORE OF AN UNREWARDING SLOG THAN “COMING SOON!!!”

      THOUGH PARTZZ OF IT ZZZIPP STUCK IN ZZZIPP

  129. Greg Gerke—

      Sebald, Kafka

  130. ZZZZIPP—

      BORGEZZ SHINEZZ IN NON-FICTION ALSO

  131. Greg Gerke—

      Sebald, Kafka

  132. ZZZZIPP—

      BORGEZZ SHINEZZ IN NON-FICTION ALSO

  133. alec niedenthal—

      I think Blanchot. But maybe just because he just kept writing more or less the same (fascinating) book.

  134. alec niedenthal—

      I think Blanchot. But maybe just because he just kept writing more or less the same (fascinating) book.

  135. brandon walter—

      i’d agree with gass as a non-stinker.

      and i’d add w.g. sebald, four nearly perfect novels.

      gombrowicz had only one stinker (the possessed) and i’ve yet to read a stinker of bernhard’s, but i’ve only read four of his, and i think he wrote about a dozen?

  136. brandon walter—

      i’d agree with gass as a non-stinker.

      and i’d add w.g. sebald, four nearly perfect novels.

      gombrowicz had only one stinker (the possessed) and i’ve yet to read a stinker of bernhard’s, but i’ve only read four of his, and i think he wrote about a dozen?

  137. alec niedenthal—

      Malamud, yes.

  138. alec niedenthal—

      Malamud, yes.

  139. brandon walter—

      bah, you beat me to the sebald.

      i thought about kafka too, but thought amerika was kind of a stinker, or at least way below his others…

  140. brandon walter—

      bah, you beat me to the sebald.

      i thought about kafka too, but thought amerika was kind of a stinker, or at least way below his others…

  141. Amber—

      Absolutely. And an auteur.

  142. Amber—

      Absolutely. And an auteur.

  143. darby—

      same for me, i’ve read the first 100p of AoD twice now. aim to do it again and further sometime

  144. darby—

      same for me, i’ve read the first 100p of AoD twice now. aim to do it again and further sometime

  145. Matthew Simmons—

      The Cat Inside?

  146. Matthew Simmons—

      The Cat Inside?

  147. darby—

      actually i just keep wanting to read about the elf named darby over and over. i love that guy.

  148. darby—

      actually i just keep wanting to read about the elf named darby over and over. i love that guy.

  149. Neil—

      Any weak Bolano?

  150. Neil—

      Any weak Bolano?

  151. Blake Butler—

      any strong Bolano?

      ;P

  152. Blake Butler—

      any strong Bolano?

      ;P

  153. darby—

      any strong bolano?

  154. darby—

      b beat me. i was jk anyway, i’ve never read bolano.

  155. darby—

      any strong bolano?

  156. darby—

      b beat me. i was jk anyway, i’ve never read bolano.

  157. Neil—

      Great minds think alike. hehe

  158. Neil—

      Great minds think alike. hehe

  159. Daniel—

      Yeah, its hard to settle in, but AtD gives it all back eventually. I really enjoyed it.

  160. Daniel—

      Yeah, its hard to settle in, but AtD gives it all back eventually. I really enjoyed it.

  161. Ken Baumann—

      Brautigan.

  162. Ken Baumann—

      Brautigan.

  163. grace—

      mcguane

  164. grace—

      mcguane

  165. Eric Anderson—

      Great question.

      William Gaddis, David Foster Wallace, & Salman Rushdie come to mind.

  166. Eric Anderson—

      Great question.

      William Gaddis, David Foster Wallace, & Salman Rushdie come to mind.

  167. (Ass-Brackets)—

      Dr. Seuss.
      Rudolph Wurlitzer (inc. the screenplays)
      Will Eno
      David Markson

  168. (Ass-Brackets)—

      Dr. Seuss.
      Rudolph Wurlitzer (inc. the screenplays)
      Will Eno
      David Markson

  169. Neil—

      Ass-Brackets, how is Markson’s earlier work? I’ve only read his late work with his cut-and-paste technique, which I love, btw.

  170. Neil—

      Ass-Brackets, how is Markson’s earlier work? I’ve only read his late work with his cut-and-paste technique, which I love, btw.

  171. (Ass-Brackets)—

      I like his earlier work. I mean, it’s not anything like his new stuff, but the Fannin novels and Dingus Magee are pretty goddamned good.

  172. (Ass-Brackets)—

      I like his earlier work. I mean, it’s not anything like his new stuff, but the Fannin novels and Dingus Magee are pretty goddamned good.

  173. stephen—

      i’m 3 for 3 with bolano so far (savage, 2666, by night in chile) really dug all 3. what do ppl think of the others that are out? i’m mostly asking bolano fans, bc if you didnt dig the aforementioned, somehow i doubt you’d dig the others

  174. stephen—

      i’m 3 for 3 with bolano so far (savage, 2666, by night in chile) really dug all 3. what do ppl think of the others that are out? i’m mostly asking bolano fans, bc if you didnt dig the aforementioned, somehow i doubt you’d dig the others

  175. Mike Jones—

      stephen wright.
      and already mentioned, but joy williams and wg sebald

  176. Mike Jones—

      stephen wright.
      and already mentioned, but joy williams and wg sebald

  177. Mike Jones—

      amulet is good, and last evenings on earth (stories)

  178. Mike Jones—

      amulet is good, and last evenings on earth (stories)

  179. Sean—

      Madonna (forget cherish)

      Nike ads

      crushed blue tablets, up nose

      Chekhov (forget newspaper work)

      rivers

      bitter coffee with someone old in cold kitchen

      Montana speed limits

      kissing

      kissing on futon mattresses

      mowing a yard well

      mockingbirds

      the sound of a hammer

  180. Sean—

      Madonna (forget cherish)

      Nike ads

      crushed blue tablets, up nose

      Chekhov (forget newspaper work)

      rivers

      bitter coffee with someone old in cold kitchen

      Montana speed limits

      kissing

      kissing on futon mattresses

      mowing a yard well

      mockingbirds

      the sound of a hammer

  181. Mike Meginnis—

      Yeah, I just don’t get this thing with The Road. I loved that book so much. I can’t read No Country, but I think that’s as much because I saw the movie first as anything.

  182. Mike Meginnis—

      Yeah, I just don’t get this thing with The Road. I loved that book so much. I can’t read No Country, but I think that’s as much because I saw the movie first as anything.

  183. jonny ross—

      and joy williams.

  184. jonny ross—

      and joy williams.

  185. jonny ross—

      was thinking yates as well. don’t think he has an out-and-out stinker, just lesser workers maybe. does have an over-arching vision thru all the novels and short stories. good, solid oevure.

  186. jonny ross—

      was thinking yates as well. don’t think he has an out-and-out stinker, just lesser workers maybe. does have an over-arching vision thru all the novels and short stories. good, solid oevure.

  187. Chris—

      I don’t know if I’d qualify DFW’s “Signifying Rappers” as a stinker as I don’t think he was setting out at that young age to produce something as part of any sort of cannon or whatever, but it doesn’t really sit alongside the other stuff. Also, it seemed to me that Everything and More was written in a rush.

      But if we’re talking auteurship, they are both really interesting to read in this context.

  188. Chris—

      I don’t know if I’d qualify DFW’s “Signifying Rappers” as a stinker as I don’t think he was setting out at that young age to produce something as part of any sort of cannon or whatever, but it doesn’t really sit alongside the other stuff. Also, it seemed to me that Everything and More was written in a rush.

      But if we’re talking auteurship, they are both really interesting to read in this context.

  189. jonny ross—

      damn. want to read GR now.

  190. jonny ross—

      damn. want to read GR now.

  191. ZZZZIPP—

      i love rivers

      but the grand canyon was a stinker

  192. ZZZZIPP—

      i love rivers

      but the grand canyon was a stinker

  193. jonny ross—

      jack kerouac

      j/k

  194. jonny ross—

      jack kerouac

      j/k

  195. jonny ross—

      dostoevsky, of course.

      surprised no mention yet.

      and delillo. he’s up and down (the body artist?) but always something interesting (language, premise, idea, etc.) to latch onto.

      and conrad.

      I’ve come around to amis, also. stinkers, sure. but singular artist, yes.

      damn, i’ll stop.

  196. jonny ross—

      dostoevsky, of course.

      surprised no mention yet.

      and delillo. he’s up and down (the body artist?) but always something interesting (language, premise, idea, etc.) to latch onto.

      and conrad.

      I’ve come around to amis, also. stinkers, sure. but singular artist, yes.

      damn, i’ll stop.

  197. mimi—

      Sean’s list opens up a whole other can of worms.
      Maverick!

  198. mimi—

      Sean’s list opens up a whole other can of worms.
      Maverick!

  199. mimi—

      Gotta disagree with you there on the grand canyon, zippy.

  200. mimi—

      Gotta disagree with you there on the grand canyon, zippy.

  201. mimi—

      Auteur authors in my book: Joyce, Faulkner & Flannery O’Connor.

  202. mimi—

      Auteur authors in my book: Joyce, Faulkner & Flannery O’Connor.

  203. Tim Ramick—

      Ditto on Dostoevsky, Kafka, Conrad, Joyce, Beckett, Sebald, and Dr. Seuss.

      Thomas Mann (Buddenbrooks. The Magic Mountain. Joseph and His Brothers. Doctor Faustus. All great).

      I’d love to say Faulkner, but the Snopes Trilogy is bloated and The Fable is heavy-handed sentimental Pulitzer Prize winning dreck. Same could be said of McCarthy’s The Road and James Agee’s A Death in the Family—far from their finest work. But Agee (definitely an auteur, who was called “The Sovereign Prince of the English Language” by some) is only notable for Let Us Now Praise Famous Men and some short marvels (“Dedication” and “Knoxville”).

      Genet. Gide. Hesse. Calvino. Unamuno. Pavese. D.H. Lawrence (Plumed Serpent, a late work, is still terrific). Patrick White.

      Has Virginia Woolf been mentioned? I’d say Stein (most decidedly an auteur), but some of her most “experimental” work is very difficult to assess.

      All right. Enough from me. I always show up late for these things…

  204. Tim Ramick—

      Ditto on Dostoevsky, Kafka, Conrad, Joyce, Beckett, Sebald, and Dr. Seuss.

      Thomas Mann (Buddenbrooks. The Magic Mountain. Joseph and His Brothers. Doctor Faustus. All great).

      I’d love to say Faulkner, but the Snopes Trilogy is bloated and The Fable is heavy-handed sentimental Pulitzer Prize winning dreck. Same could be said of McCarthy’s The Road and James Agee’s A Death in the Family—far from their finest work. But Agee (definitely an auteur, who was called “The Sovereign Prince of the English Language” by some) is only notable for Let Us Now Praise Famous Men and some short marvels (“Dedication” and “Knoxville”).

      Genet. Gide. Hesse. Calvino. Unamuno. Pavese. D.H. Lawrence (Plumed Serpent, a late work, is still terrific). Patrick White.

      Has Virginia Woolf been mentioned? I’d say Stein (most decidedly an auteur), but some of her most “experimental” work is very difficult to assess.

      All right. Enough from me. I always show up late for these things…

  205. Tim Ramick—

      What about Vonnegut? Any stinkers among the later work (I only know the first seven or eight)?

  206. Tim Ramick—

      What about Vonnegut? Any stinkers among the later work (I only know the first seven or eight)?

  207. Tim Ramick—

      I’d forgotten about this (from Vonnegut himself): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Vonnegut

      In Chapter 18 of his book Palm Sunday, “The Sexual Revolution”, Vonnegut grades his own works. He states that the grades “do not place me in literary history” and that he is comparing “myself with myself.” The grades are as follows:

      * Player Piano: B
      * The Sirens of Titan: A
      * Mother Night: A-plus
      * Cat’s Cradle: A-plus
      * God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater: A
      * Slaughterhouse-Five: A-plus
      * Welcome to the Monkey House: B-minus
      * Happy Birthday, Wanda June: D
      * Breakfast of Champions: C
      * Slapstick: D
      * Jailbird: A
      * Palm Sunday: C

  208. Tim Ramick—

      I’d forgotten about this (from Vonnegut himself): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Vonnegut

      In Chapter 18 of his book Palm Sunday, “The Sexual Revolution”, Vonnegut grades his own works. He states that the grades “do not place me in literary history” and that he is comparing “myself with myself.” The grades are as follows:

      * Player Piano: B
      * The Sirens of Titan: A
      * Mother Night: A-plus
      * Cat’s Cradle: A-plus
      * God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater: A
      * Slaughterhouse-Five: A-plus
      * Welcome to the Monkey House: B-minus
      * Happy Birthday, Wanda June: D
      * Breakfast of Champions: C
      * Slapstick: D
      * Jailbird: A
      * Palm Sunday: C

  209. Matt Cozart—

      just finished the body artist, thought it was great

  210. Matt Cozart—

      just finished the body artist, thought it was great

  211. Brian—

      um, closer?

  212. Brian—

      um, closer?

  213. ZZZZIPP—

      okay, okay,

      i only read the review

  214. ZZZZIPP—

      okay, okay,

      i only read the review

  215. MG—

      Slapstick is definitely a D.

      Not sure Vonnegut gave himself enough credit on Breakfast of Champions, though.

  216. MG—

      Slapstick is definitely a D.

      Not sure Vonnegut gave himself enough credit on Breakfast of Champions, though.

  217. darby—

      yeah i would have swapped the grades for breakfast and god bless you

  218. darby—

      yeah i would have swapped the grades for breakfast and god bless you

  219. Dan Wickett—

      Percival Everett

      And while he’s been publishing for a shorter period of time than probably many of those listed, I’d toss Peter Markus’ name into the mix and think he might just sneak into the original thought process behind auteur as well.

      And I second KB’s Brautigan nomination.

  220. Dan Wickett—

      Percival Everett

      And while he’s been publishing for a shorter period of time than probably many of those listed, I’d toss Peter Markus’ name into the mix and think he might just sneak into the original thought process behind auteur as well.

      And I second KB’s Brautigan nomination.

  221. darby—

      with vonnegut i kind of think that whichever one you read first is always your favorite because they all act as such powerful discoveries, and then everyone after slowly becomes less interesting or more of the same. thats kind of how my experience with vonnegut was. i was burned out on him by the time i read god bless you and said okay, no more.

  222. darby—

      with vonnegut i kind of think that whichever one you read first is always your favorite because they all act as such powerful discoveries, and then everyone after slowly becomes less interesting or more of the same. thats kind of how my experience with vonnegut was. i was burned out on him by the time i read god bless you and said okay, no more.

  223. ZZZZIPP—

      kind of like douglas coupland but vonnegut is much better than douglas coupland

      zzzzipp read breakfast of champions first and saw leaks everywhere

  224. ZZZZIPP—

      kind of like douglas coupland but vonnegut is much better than douglas coupland

      zzzzipp read breakfast of champions first and saw leaks everywhere

  225. ZZZZIPP—

      b’s fiction a tonic–who is a bigger borges fan than zzzzipp who lives inside an aleph at times–but his non-fiction is more nourishing and more infinite

  226. ZZZZIPP—

      b’s fiction a tonic–who is a bigger borges fan than zzzzipp who lives inside an aleph at times–but his non-fiction is more nourishing and more infinite

  227. darby—

      i should say i was not well read and very impressionable when i went through my vonnegut phase though, so that could be something. maybe i should re-read something of it.

  228. darby—

      i should say i was not well read and very impressionable when i went through my vonnegut phase though, so that could be something. maybe i should re-read something of it.

  229. Ben—

      Faulkner? The Reivers was weak.

  230. Ben—

      Faulkner? The Reivers was weak.

  231. Tim Ramick—

      ZZZZIPP: “more infinite”

      More infinite?!—Is that Lobachevski or crushed blue tablets or post-rapids concussion from the mighty Colorado?

      Nonetheless, agree re: Borges.

  232. Donald—

      oh, Jhon. let Harry into your life.

  233. Tim Ramick—

      ZZZZIPP: “more infinite”

      More infinite?!—Is that Lobachevski or crushed blue tablets or post-rapids concussion from the mighty Colorado?

      Nonetheless, agree re: Borges.

  234. Donald—

      oh, Jhon. let Harry into your life.

  235. ZZZZIPP—

      when he died a columnist in the newspaper dismissed him entirely as being a writer for adolescents and someone you grow out of easily but while there are some books like that (written by other people) I think that’s an awful thing to say about vonnegut

  236. ZZZZIPP—

      when he died a columnist in the newspaper dismissed him entirely as being a writer for adolescents and someone you grow out of easily but while there are some books like that (written by other people) I think that’s an awful thing to say about vonnegut

  237. ZZZZIPP—

      I think it is all those things. Tim, whenever I see your name I like it because I get to click it and look at that “gate” pdf.

  238. Tom DeBeauchamp—

      Samuel Beckett is the epitome of auteur. Everything he’s written (at least, everything I’ve read) has demanded (not out of difficulty, but by promise) many reads. Part of the definition of auteur, as I’m reading these posts, is that the auteur’s works describe a singular territory on the mass of literature. Such is Sam.

      John Hawkes hasn’t come up, which is a shame; his work is singular too.

      Somewhere Barthelme says you have to excuse a genius their excesses, or their missteps. They need time to find their footing, etc. I think it’s in Not Knowing. It’s an important thought for this conversation.

      There’s another, more important, point. If Barry Hannah never missed a step and Thomas Pynchon did, that might imply that Hannah was more the auteur. I can’t get to that. Even if Vineland was a misstep (an opinion which I can’t endorse; let’s call it a side step), Gravity’s Rainbow and V (at least) had more than enough poop to challenge Hannah’s perfect catalogue. At least to my mind.

      The greatness of GR (just for example) allows you to reevaluate the seemingly lesser works (like Crying of Lot 49) in their light. In the lesser works (or the other works, the letters, the diaries etc.) you find re-stated, or pre-stated in new ways or side-ways nuances you’d noticed elsewhere in the body of their work.

      Being-auteur (and this may have been said, there’s hundred of thoughts above this one) implies that all of your work is worth re-reading and placing into some sort of a meta-narrative. You’re a master of discursivity.

  239. ZZZZIPP—

      I think it is all those things. Tim, whenever I see your name I like it because I get to click it and look at that “gate” pdf.

  240. Tom DeBeauchamp—

      Samuel Beckett is the epitome of auteur. Everything he’s written (at least, everything I’ve read) has demanded (not out of difficulty, but by promise) many reads. Part of the definition of auteur, as I’m reading these posts, is that the auteur’s works describe a singular territory on the mass of literature. Such is Sam.

      John Hawkes hasn’t come up, which is a shame; his work is singular too.

      Somewhere Barthelme says you have to excuse a genius their excesses, or their missteps. They need time to find their footing, etc. I think it’s in Not Knowing. It’s an important thought for this conversation.

      There’s another, more important, point. If Barry Hannah never missed a step and Thomas Pynchon did, that might imply that Hannah was more the auteur. I can’t get to that. Even if Vineland was a misstep (an opinion which I can’t endorse; let’s call it a side step), Gravity’s Rainbow and V (at least) had more than enough poop to challenge Hannah’s perfect catalogue. At least to my mind.

      The greatness of GR (just for example) allows you to reevaluate the seemingly lesser works (like Crying of Lot 49) in their light. In the lesser works (or the other works, the letters, the diaries etc.) you find re-stated, or pre-stated in new ways or side-ways nuances you’d noticed elsewhere in the body of their work.

      Being-auteur (and this may have been said, there’s hundred of thoughts above this one) implies that all of your work is worth re-reading and placing into some sort of a meta-narrative. You’re a master of discursivity.

  241. Tim Ramick—

      Cat’s Cradle is still my favorite Vonnegut (third of his I read, if I remember right).

      Darby: Off-topic, but I quite like Piccinnini’s “Recidivist” at your Adjective site. Thanks. I’m off now to explore more of his work and dig deeper into Adjective (new to me—I’ve not been paying very good attention).

  242. Tim Ramick—

      Cat’s Cradle is still my favorite Vonnegut (third of his I read, if I remember right).

      Darby: Off-topic, but I quite like Piccinnini’s “Recidivist” at your Adjective site. Thanks. I’m off now to explore more of his work and dig deeper into Adjective (new to me—I’ve not been paying very good attention).

  243. Tim Ramick—

      Thanks, ZZZZIPP, for peeking. I so envy your moniker and the nimbleness of your opinions as they unspiral (outspiral?) into view. Where does your aleph-work lurk?

  244. Tim Ramick—

      Thanks, ZZZZIPP, for peeking. I so envy your moniker and the nimbleness of your opinions as they unspiral (outspiral?) into view. Where does your aleph-work lurk?

  245. darby—

      thanks tim! appreciate it. piccinnini’s stuff is awesome.

  246. darby—

      thanks tim! appreciate it. piccinnini’s stuff is awesome.

  247. Andreas—

      my reading list just got a lot bigger. whenever i see conversations like this i think that i spent too much time reading shit.

  248. Andreas—

      my reading list just got a lot bigger. whenever i see conversations like this i think that i spent too much time reading shit.

  249. Blake Butler—

      kathy acker and robert coover i think make my list

  250. Blake Butler—

      kathy acker and robert coover i think make my list

  251. Blake Butler—

      GR is worth every word. it kills its hype, easy. you just gotta get into the vibe of it, which takes some doing.

  252. Blake Butler—

      GR is worth every word. it kills its hype, easy. you just gotta get into the vibe of it, which takes some doing.

  253. reynard—

      The Hawkline Monster

  254. reynard—

      period

  255. reynard—

      The Hawkline Monster

  256. reynard—

      period

  257. Mike Meginnis—

      I bought that book after reading the first sentence. Was that easy.

  258. Mike Meginnis—

      I bought that book after reading the first sentence. Was that easy.

  259. Mike Meginnis—

      Breakfast of Champions may be my favorite book ever. I cried in the library break room.

      Mother Night was definitely incredible, read it at the other library (the one I didn’t work at) in an afternoon, took it home anyway just to touch it.

      Did that essay predate Bluebeard? I love Bluebeard so much but it seems like nobody’s with me on that one.

  260. Mike Meginnis—

      Breakfast of Champions may be my favorite book ever. I cried in the library break room.

      Mother Night was definitely incredible, read it at the other library (the one I didn’t work at) in an afternoon, took it home anyway just to touch it.

      Did that essay predate Bluebeard? I love Bluebeard so much but it seems like nobody’s with me on that one.

  261. jheorgge—

      dennis fucking cooper and kathy fucking acker.

  262. jheorgge—

      dennis fucking cooper and kathy fucking acker.

  263. JW—

      I was thinking a similar thing the other day with regards to old Cormac. All out of books and money, I decided to give The Crossing another shot and, again, struggled with it. Yet I feel I can’t call it weak because there is still so much more at work in a weak McCarthy than the majority of other writers who are read in the mainstream. This may not make much sense, but I felt like my desire for a tight, gripping story had eclipsed my respect for a unique voice and even a little guilty for that.

      Perhaps it is my recognition of the language and world of a book I see as outstanding (Blood Meridian) in a story that little interests me that makes me feel so divided.

      I guess the question I’m trying to ask is whether a book by a writer who is unique formally but misfires with narrative is more valuable than one that is more traditional but has a tighter story?

  264. JW—

      I was thinking a similar thing the other day with regards to old Cormac. All out of books and money, I decided to give The Crossing another shot and, again, struggled with it. Yet I feel I can’t call it weak because there is still so much more at work in a weak McCarthy than the majority of other writers who are read in the mainstream. This may not make much sense, but I felt like my desire for a tight, gripping story had eclipsed my respect for a unique voice and even a little guilty for that.

      Perhaps it is my recognition of the language and world of a book I see as outstanding (Blood Meridian) in a story that little interests me that makes me feel so divided.

      I guess the question I’m trying to ask is whether a book by a writer who is unique formally but misfires with narrative is more valuable than one that is more traditional but has a tighter story?

  265. Tim Horvath—

      Calvino for sure. Showing up late is the real challenge; you have to remember what everyone else is bringing to the picnic plus come up with an item of your own.

  266. Tim Horvath—

      Coleman Dowell.

  267. Lily Hoang—

      A post yesterday criticized ABR for their Bad Books, and here are 100+ comments about books deemed “sub par.” What are your standards for criticizing “good art” v. “bad art”? And I’d wager it’s easier for you to say a book sucks than for any author to write it, “good” or “bad,” whether you’re Oates, pumping out a zillion books at a time, or Lutz, giving each word due attention.

      This is not to say that I don’t readily dismiss books as “bad” after a cursory read. Or a thorough read for that matter.

  268. Lily Hoang—

      A post yesterday criticized ABR for their Bad Books, and here are 100+ comments about books deemed “sub par.” What are your standards for criticizing “good art” v. “bad art”? And I’d wager it’s easier for you to say a book sucks than for any author to write it, “good” or “bad,” whether you’re Oates, pumping out a zillion books at a time, or Lutz, giving each word due attention.

      This is not to say that I don’t readily dismiss books as “bad” after a cursory read. Or a thorough read for that matter.

  269. Drew Johnson—

      Murphy is one of his best.

  270. Drew Johnson—

      Murphy is one of his best.

  271. Tim Ramick—

      Where is a good place to begin with Dowell? I’m embarrassed to say I’ve never read any of his novels.

  272. Tim Ramick—

      Where is a good place to begin with Dowell? I’m embarrassed to say I’ve never read any of his novels.

  273. Mike Meginnis—

      I just never read something I don’t like long enough to be sure I’m right about it sucking.

  274. Mike Meginnis—

      I just never read something I don’t like long enough to be sure I’m right about it sucking.

  275. Brady—

      I disagree with the Hempel thing. Just four books in more than 20 years, all of which barely swipe at 100 full pages, all of which read like Marmaduke for angst-ridden adults.

  276. Brady—

      I disagree with the Hempel thing. Just four books in more than 20 years, all of which barely swipe at 100 full pages, all of which read like Marmaduke for angst-ridden adults.

  277. Amy McDaniel—

      20 lines a day is my bible right now. totally you should read it, Christian.

  278. Amy McDaniel—

      20 lines a day is my bible right now. totally you should read it, Christian.

  279. Amy McDaniel—

      Jane Austen. Virginia Woolf (possible exception of Orlando, but lots of people love it. i don’t think it counts as a stinker unless it is roundly dismissed by most of her readers, and it isn’t). Elizabeth Bishop. def. agree about Beckett.

  280. Amy McDaniel—

      Jane Austen. Virginia Woolf (possible exception of Orlando, but lots of people love it. i don’t think it counts as a stinker unless it is roundly dismissed by most of her readers, and it isn’t). Elizabeth Bishop. def. agree about Beckett.

  281. Tim Horvath—

      Island People.

  282. Drew Johnson—

      Henry Green, Henry Green, Henry Green.

  283. Drew Johnson—

      Henry Green, Henry Green, Henry Green.

  284. stephen—

      I second Virginia Woolf, from what i’ve read (dalloway, waves, orlando, room with a view, to the lighthouse, moments of being). the ones i haven’t read sound very interesting, should get my hands on those (between the acts, etc.)

      ‘Orlando’ is another great example of the ‘misunderstood’ or ‘undervalued’ work by an auteur. Mind you, gender theory critics and feminists probably rate it top of the heap, but for less politically-affiliated readers, it might be, initially, the least attractive of the bunch. but i’d say with a careful reading and an adjustment to its unusual approach, it’s rewarding. it is written as a ‘biography,’ and the main character switches genders halfway through the book. it also has photographs of the purported ‘real people’ in the biography. also, very interestingly, it was written for/about vita sackville-west, the poet and virginia’s lesbian lover. it is funnier than a lot of Virginia’s other work, and more playful. Vita’s son, Nigel, referred to ‘Orlando’ as “the longest and most charming love letter in literature.” Vive Virginia!

  285. stephen—

      I second Virginia Woolf, from what i’ve read (dalloway, waves, orlando, room with a view, to the lighthouse, moments of being). the ones i haven’t read sound very interesting, should get my hands on those (between the acts, etc.)

      ‘Orlando’ is another great example of the ‘misunderstood’ or ‘undervalued’ work by an auteur. Mind you, gender theory critics and feminists probably rate it top of the heap, but for less politically-affiliated readers, it might be, initially, the least attractive of the bunch. but i’d say with a careful reading and an adjustment to its unusual approach, it’s rewarding. it is written as a ‘biography,’ and the main character switches genders halfway through the book. it also has photographs of the purported ‘real people’ in the biography. also, very interestingly, it was written for/about vita sackville-west, the poet and virginia’s lesbian lover. it is funnier than a lot of Virginia’s other work, and more playful. Vita’s son, Nigel, referred to ‘Orlando’ as “the longest and most charming love letter in literature.” Vive Virginia!

  286. bleh—

      Rushdie is a FULL TILT! piece of shit writer.

  287. bleh—

      Rushdie is a FULL TILT! piece of shit writer.

  288. ZZZZZIPP—

      ZIP ZIP ZIP ZIP ZIP

  289. ZZZZZIPP—

      ZIP ZIP ZIP ZIP ZIP

  290. Günter—

      Tobias Wolff.

  291. Günter—

      Tobias Wolff.

  292. Tom—

      Was going to say the same. Yes.

  293. Tom—

      Was going to say the same. Yes.

  294. Tom—

      Martin Amis
      Michel Hoeullebecq
      Denis Johnson

  295. Tom—

      Martin Amis
      Michel Hoeullebecq
      Denis Johnson

  296. Amy McDaniel—

      thanks, Stephen, for this–I have started and put down Orlando because i got distracted by something else, but now i will def give it a more concerted 2nd try.

  297. Amy McDaniel—

      thanks, Stephen, for this–I have started and put down Orlando because i got distracted by something else, but now i will def give it a more concerted 2nd try.

  298. stephen—

      cool, man. yeah, i mean, if i was trying to get someone into woolf, i would press “to the lighthouse” on them if they don’t like “way sad” books, or else “mrs. dalloway” and “the waves,” but yeah, for a peer (or hell, i’m not your peer, you’re smart/sophisticated, you know what i mean) writer/reader, “orlando” is definitely worth at least a try. you may eventually get into it. it’s just a different style for her, and doesn’t have as much of the “word orgasm” prose going on all the time.

  299. stephen—

      cool, man. yeah, i mean, if i was trying to get someone into woolf, i would press “to the lighthouse” on them if they don’t like “way sad” books, or else “mrs. dalloway” and “the waves,” but yeah, for a peer (or hell, i’m not your peer, you’re smart/sophisticated, you know what i mean) writer/reader, “orlando” is definitely worth at least a try. you may eventually get into it. it’s just a different style for her, and doesn’t have as much of the “word orgasm” prose going on all the time.

  300. stephen—

      hey sorry, amy, somehow i thought i saw alec niedenthal’s name on your comment. you’re not a man! you are a wonderful woman, no doubt. glad you’re trying “orlando” again. peace and love

  301. stephen—

      hey sorry, amy, somehow i thought i saw alec niedenthal’s name on your comment. you’re not a man! you are a wonderful woman, no doubt. glad you’re trying “orlando” again. peace and love

  302. Alec Niedenthal—

      you think you’re a man, but you’re only a boy!

  303. Alec Niedenthal—

      you think you’re a man, but you’re only a boy!

  304. stephen—

      ?

  305. dave erlewine—

      Your last name must be Quinn.

  306. dave erlewine—

      AN’s just being funny, Stephen, it’s all good.

  307. dave erlewine—

      Your last name must be Quinn.

  308. dave erlewine—

      AN’s just being funny, Stephen, it’s all good.

  309. dave erlewine—

      I know Kyle M likes 2666 a lot. I’d like to hear his thoughts on the book here. And then Chris H can share his.

  310. dave erlewine—

      I know Kyle M likes 2666 a lot. I’d like to hear his thoughts on the book here. And then Chris H can share his.

  311. alec niedenthal—

      beat happening lyric dogg

  312. alec niedenthal—

      beat happening lyric dogg

  313. zusya—

      AtD is probably the most fun of all of P.’s totem-tomes. once i started reading as a satire of just about everything pop culture has ever had to offer i started to fly (zzzip?) through it, thoroughly enjoying myself along the way.

      it features, arguably, one of his best (read: “pleasantly mystifying”) endings.

  314. zusya—

      AtD is probably the most fun of all of P.’s totem-tomes. once i started reading as a satire of just about everything pop culture has ever had to offer i started to fly (zzzip?) through it, thoroughly enjoying myself along the way.

      it features, arguably, one of his best (read: “pleasantly mystifying”) endings.

  315. zusya—

      bill watterson?

  316. zusya—

      bill watterson?