June 24th, 2009 / 8:45 pm
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- Joseph Young—
i quite felt the suffereing of thaddeus, and others, and felt empathy toward him. was what made the book best for me. but some of yours are good points to make, though might, maybe, could use some fleshing out. - Joseph Riippi—
Re: Daniel Quinn, I have to admit that the first time I read ‘Ishmael’ it blew my mind. Granted, I was 13. But it remains on the shelf of “those books” with Knowles’ *A Separate Peace* and Gary Paulson’s *Hatchet* and every Calvin and Hobbes... - d—
I guess “but it’s funny!” stops working for me at some point. Of course, the patronizing “critiques” of hip hop are the other side of the same coin, especially all the family values/role of the father conservative shit. - David Backer—
The one premise I can offer to justify my “whining” is this: In Jones’s book, and a lot of writing I’ve been reading online, there is a lack of engagement with extant-real systems of human organization: economies, households, cultures, societies,... - Matthew Simmons—
See? Now I love you. - Richard - Zine-Scene—
I thought Shelley was really nice when I saw here. She stayed around after the reading and talked with a bunch of people and seemed really laid back… It might have been because she was hosted by the University of Alabama faculty, who are really laid back too. - mimi—
Or maybe someone slipped some MSG into my dipping sauce. - mimi—
Yeah, the Fashion Severe connection is weird; is this borderline ‘exploitation’? Korine is BFFs with Chloe’ Sevigny, is he not? Did you ever see Zoolander? Remember the ‘Derelict’ (pronounced ‘de-re-LEEKT”) collection?
- Joseph Young—
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I do. He’s in the worst possible place and realizing that this is a world of shit and deaf falcons populated by cowards and mad men.
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we’ve all heard of hate fucking, as in: “I want to hate fuck Condoleezza Rice.”
but how about hate masturbating, as in: “I want to hate masturbate all over the internet writing scene because I have strong feelings of inadequacy, self-doubt, anxiety, and depression – ironically, some of the very things that the internet writers I hate write about. But oh well, I do it because it feels good.”
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June 24th, 2009 / 9:31 pmNathan (Nate) Tyree—
You have to remember where he is. That shapes things
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June 25th, 2009 / 1:40 amreynard seifert—
that’s cool, i wish him luck with all that. he can write whatever he wants, everyone can.
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June 25th, 2009 / 4:54 amMichael James—
where is he?
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June 25th, 2009 / 6:43 amPHM—
Iraq for another six months.
i just honestly hope a shitstorm doesnt happen
didn’t realize this was posted on html giant
feeling fragile
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June 25th, 2009 / 1:32 amdarby—
yeah ph, how could you be so mean to such a fragile person?
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June 25th, 2009 / 1:34 amdarby—
feeling self-conscious about that comment. Feeling like I shouldn’t commented sarcastically like that.
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June 25th, 2009 / 1:35 amdarby—
just felt, ‘oh no’
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June 25th, 2009 / 1:35 amdarby—
just farted
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June 25th, 2009 / 1:40 amdarby—
hoping no one will comment on my comments. no has so far. feeling ‘okay’
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i am feeling mixed about my original comment. just thought, ‘i’m sarcastic, oh well.’
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June 25th, 2009 / 1:44 ambrandon—
trying to think of something to reply has not worked for ~45 seconds, posting this in response
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June 25th, 2009 / 1:47 amdarby—
just read this reply after noticing it and saying, oh brandon replied, and then I laughed out loud very slightly, then i thought, i hope he doesn’t hate me.
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June 25th, 2009 / 1:44 amdarby—
concerned that people may not understand this comment was part of my other subthread of comments even though it is a direct reply to the post. I feel people will ‘get it.’ feeling okay about it.
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June 25th, 2009 / 1:45 amdarby—
just thought, i hope i dont die right now.
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June 25th, 2009 / 1:50 ambrandon—
jesus fucking christ
June 25th, 2009 / 1:51 amdarby—
wife just came in and said, are you coming to bed? I said, two minutes. feel okay about two minutes, I’m wrapping up here. I will post a reply to this saying good night.
June 25th, 2009 / 1:51 amdarby—
good night
June 25th, 2009 / 1:53 amdarby—
feeling okay about ‘good night.’ feels like the right time.
June 25th, 2009 / 1:26 pmdarby—
oh. i’m coming off mean here, no? sorry, was drinking beers last night.
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This is quote heelarious.
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quote? the fuck? quite. quite. QUIIIIITEEEEE
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June 25th, 2009 / 9:26 amNathan Tyree—
I don’t know, in context ‘quote heelarious’ was pretty funny.
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“Macy’s Day Parade”
by Green Day
Today’s the Macy’s Day Parade
The night of the living dead is on its way
With a credit report for duty call
It’s a lifetime guarantee
Stuffed in a coffin 10% more free
Red light special at the mausoleum
Give me something that I need
Satisfaction guaranteed to you
What’s the consolation prize?
Economy sized dreams of hope
When I was a kid I thought
I wanted all the things that I haven’t got
Oh. I learned the hardest way
Then I realized what it took
To tell the difference between
Thieves and crooks
A lesson learned to me and you
Give me something that I need
Satisfaction guaranteed
Because I’m thinking about
A brand new hope
The one I’ve never known
Cause now I know
It’s all that I wanted
What’s the consolation prize?
Economy sized dreams of hope
Give me something that I need
Satisfaction guaranteed
Because I’m thinking about
A brand new hope
The one I’ve never known
And where it goes
And I’m thinking about
The only road
The one I’ve never known
And where it goes
And I’m thinking about
A brand new hope
The one I’ve never known
Cause now I know
It’s all that I wanted
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June 25th, 2009 / 11:24 amBlake Butler—
this dude just quoted a whole green day song
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June 25th, 2009 / 1:03 pmCuauhtémoc Cortés Corrado—
I wish he’d quoted the one from the Seinfeld finale. That was such a way to go out! Are they still in prison, you guys think?
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June 25th, 2009 / 6:34 pmNathan (Nate) Tyree—
Time of your life.
I like that song, but american idiot is ‘better’
June 25th, 2009 / 8:03 pmCuauhtémoc Cortés Corrado—
yah, it’s ‘better’ but i think the broken dreams song is the ’shiznit’
Brandon’s book is really good. All my stuff is packed up because I’m moving, but I kept Brandon’s book unpacked because I like to read it often.
PH Madore is a genuine person who cares about words. He wants the best out of this world and doesn’t seem to tolerate gimmicks and schticks. And, really, why should any of us tolerate gimmicks and schticks?
All this post has done is make me realize that there are gaps within my understanding of what one commenter referred to as “the online writing community.” I like many aspects of it. I don’t blame anyone for trying to compartmentalize those aspects in an effort to better understand their own aesthetics or ambitions.
Brandon’s comments on PH’s blog seemed genuine. PH’s original post seemed genuine. I’m doing my best to be genuine.
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for those of us who can’t open the website, can someone paste the offending comment by Mr. G?
I’ll open up wide for anyone who does…as I often do for my uncle, Tito Santana.
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Wait. Thee (sorry, too lazy for ital) Chico Santana?
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June 25th, 2009 / 3:56 pmCuauhtémoc Cortés Corrado—
No! Tito Santana the WWF wrestler! The other Santana you refer to is weak tea, imho.
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angry little paul’s post reeks of the fat kid who doesn’t get picked for kickball and exclaims “i didn’t want to play stupid kick ball with you guys anyways!” and pretends to storm off but hides over by the chain link fence and watches the other kids play while he laments about how awesome he is and how lame every one else is.
the small value within the post is overshadowed by his immature hostility. which is a shame because there is some worth to what he’s saying.
i laughed at the part where he says a generation is forming without him. such an isolated emo lone wolf.
the notion a generation can willfully “change” history is fucking retarded.
i disagree with nate. paul’s location of sleep has no bearing on how this post is read/interpreted.
paul is in iraq. big fucking deal. the guy is probably sitting in a mess hall or office/tent where he does nothing but paperwork all day.
where is a rogue scud missile when you need one?
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June 25th, 2009 / 3:41 pmNathan Tyree—
Having some relatives recently back from that brutal and senseless war, I cannot help but assume that he is in danger. That there is fear. pain. Wreck. If my assumption is true, then his anger (however directed) should be taken for rage that is deserved.
maybe I am wrong. Maybe he is in the rear with the gear. Still though, I’d rather give him the benefit of the doubt and take his words with the right attitude.
And, there is value in what he has to say. There are actual points hidden in his rant. Things to consider.
Toiling in obscurity has its charms.
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June 25th, 2009 / 4:30 pmdarby—
nah. madore is just madore. been since before.
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June 25th, 2009 / 5:07 pmNathan Tyree—
That’s always possible too
June 26th, 2009 / 6:05 pmPHM—
11B. That means grunt. That means eight to twelve hours a day in a turret. Something terrible happened recently and it makes Jereme Dean seem even further inside himself than usual.
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Regardless of where this person is located, I find their blog post to be a self-indulgent tirade against self-indulgence in literature. This person proposes a “return” to honesty and I am puzzled. As long as there are books being written by people who invest some part of themselves in writing them, even if only a handful of people understand and like them, literature is not dying, or being killed, for that matter. I think that if Those Who Want Their Biographers Present & Co. were to write a novel or poems about the hardships of Iraqi daily life or a war they have only seen on television, this person would be even angrier, yet he complains about a lack of honesty in their writing, accuses them of murder.
Also: The pop musicians of Green Day (quoted above) own houses in the Berkeley Hills and are probably sipping coffee in their kitchens, though their floors are likely hardwood or marble. Their own anti-bourgeois anger is now highly irrelevant.
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oh man 37 comments, i guess that’s what i get for spending the afternoon watching frasier and sipping latte’s with my collegiate friends. it was great , we were talking about how fun it is to form generations and shit. we all agreed it’s best to just unite arbitrarily rather than liking each other’s work. oh wait, frasier just chided niles with a witty retort in french. fuck, i just spilled my latte on my mac book.
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June 25th, 2009 / 6:35 pmNathan (Nate) Tyree—
I use latte as lube when I fuck the USB port on my macbook
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man i’m a dick. get back safe ph. i wasnt offended by your article, it just seemed really shallow.
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June 25th, 2009 / 6:21 pmAni—
Wait, you can’t go soft on him because he’s in Iraq, that doesn’t do either of you justice. His rant wasn’t shallow, it was idealistic and perhaps immature, but it touched on a lot of points we all struggle with: alienation, class, worth, values, etc. It’s just a pity the very valid questions are directed outwardly instead of toward himself.
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June 26th, 2009 / 6:09 pmPHM—
I agree: leave out the fact that I’m in Iraq. Jereme Dean’s going to be a piece of shit no matter what the context, but my job has little to do with my writing most of the time.
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June 26th, 2009 / 7:03 pmNathan (Nate) Tyree—
I like Jereme
June 26th, 2009 / 7:05 pmPHM—
He’s so likeable; you’re right, I’m a jackass.
June 26th, 2009 / 7:10 pmjereme—
how can we leave out the fact you’re in iraq? you bring it up and use it as a fucking sympathy crutch.
i’m sorry did you not join the military under your own free will? was there a draft i didn’t know about?
you chose the music and now you’re griping that the dance is scary.
you’ll get no sympathy from me. i mean if you were a nice person i would feel bad for you.
but you’re a petty little angry person who chose his own path in life.
reap it.
June 27th, 2009 / 5:16 amPHM—
And now your good friend Jereme Dean illustrates exactly why I’ve only mentioned “my place of sleep” in this comments thread and a very few other times over the past six months; to offset such infused accusations. Jereme Dean is the lowest life form on this fucking board and I look forward to the day he kills himself. That is not something I’ll ever retract.
I’ve got a comment about said rant but I’m holding out until my biographers arrive. Should have a couple of ‘em in say 10 – 20 years, so I’ll check back.
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I like the “scam artists” and “whores” tags. Subtlety. I dig it.
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there is no reason to insult other people unless you are insecure.
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June 25th, 2009 / 8:00 pmNathan (Nate) Tyree—
I like when other people insult me
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June 25th, 2009 / 9:05 pmreynard—
well, not everyone’s written a ‘cult classic,’ have they?
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June 26th, 2009 / 9:54 amNathan Tyree—
That seems obvious
June 26th, 2009 / 3:02 pmmayo thompson—
i think you need to sharpen yr krayon
June 26th, 2009 / 4:40 pmNathan Tyree—
I do need to sharpen my Crayon (TM). Or maybe i need to ’sharpen’ my ‘krayon’. or maybe I need some crayfish. Who can tell.
What strikes me about this is that so many people seem so worked up because PH wrote a rant from the heart, containing many valid points that happened to poke a bit at Brandon and Tao.
Neither Brandon nor Tao are likely to be really upset by this. They both have a knack for turning negative notice into something positive (I admire that, by the way – I might also add that while I find much of this funny (the unnecessary quotes and such), I happen to like both Brandon and Tao. Brandon’s book is about to get a good review from me).
Both sides were being genuine (writers are supposed to do just that) and people not directly involved seem to be wigging out about it.
All very strange
June 26th, 2009 / 5:00 pmreynard—
nathan, what’s really strange is:
a) you feel the need to defend this dude, thus provoking a shitstorm
b) you think being insulted is enjoyable
c) you call your own novel a ‘cult classic’
June 26th, 2009 / 5:04 pmNathan Tyree—
I hate that replies fuck up when they go too deep.
For Reynard:
a) I defend everyone who is being genuine and honest. That includes you (except the bullshit fake name posts). I didn’t provoke a shitstorm. PH may have. Brandon may have by not simply ignoring PH. Honestly, you are the only person who seems to be paying any attention to what I say here. Don’t give me more credit than I deserve. I’m just a guy taking part in a conversation.
b) When it is done well, an insult can be a work of art.
c) Huh?
June 26th, 2009 / 5:18 pmreynard—
a) i doubt that very much
b) i’m well aware
c) glad you’re capable of editing your ‘about’ section and playing dumb, that’s a real neat trick
who would’ve thunk nastiness would give way to nastiness?
anyway, gonna go live life now
June 26th, 2009 / 5:31 pmNathan Tyree—
“June 26th, 2009 / 5:18 pmreynard—
a) i doubt that very much
b) i’m well aware
c) glad you’re capable of editing your ‘about’ section and playing dumb, that’s a real neat trick
who would’ve thunk nastiness would give way to nastiness?
anyway, gonna go live life now”
a) You don’t know me, or you would know that I was being genuine.
b) If you are aware, then you would have gotten my point
c) Oh! You were talking about the various pages on my blog. My huh was because I kept going through my comments here trying to find where I had said that.
It was meant as a joke; a bit of irony. I’m guessing that you are about 19 or 20 years old, which would explain why irony ( and self deprecation) escapes you.
Honestly, I haven’t really seen any nastiness here. You’re trying, but don’t seem to have the knack for it. keep trying kid.
June 26th, 2009 / 5:48 pmNathan Tyree—
I think that I’m about finished here, but in case you missed my ‘nastiness’ that provoked a ’shit storm’ and the other terrible things I did in this conversation, this is my ‘defense’ of PH was:
Having some relatives recently back from that brutal and senseless war, I cannot help but assume that he is in danger. That there is fear. pain. Wreck. If my assumption is true, then his anger (however directed) should be taken for rage that is deserved.
maybe I am wrong. Maybe he is in the rear with the gear. Still though, I’d rather give him the benefit of the doubt and take his words with the right attitude.
And, there is value in what he has to say. There are actual points hidden in his rant. Things to consider.
Toiling in obscurity has its charm
June 26th, 2009 / 3:43 pmdavidpeak—
what the fuck is with all the bogus pseudonyms lately?
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June 26th, 2009 / 3:51 pmNathan Tyree—
That’s a good question
June 26th, 2009 / 3:56 pmmayo thompson—
oh, i’m just an asswhore
June 26th, 2009 / 4:42 pmAndre—
For some reason, to me it feels like it took too long for them to get here. Not that I found HTMLGIANT boring or something before, I don’t know. Just seems like of all internet gathering-places HTMLGIANT should have a relatively rich collection of bogus pseudonyms.
June 26th, 2009 / 4:57 pmweegee—
nice header photo btw, davidpeak – if that is yr real name – thanks for giving me credit for that
June 26th, 2009 / 6:41 pmdavid erlewine—
nate, i like you dude but enough. you are stirring up so much shit on here. guy, it’s Friday, take it easy on us. Stop calling your book a #1 bestseller. I wiki’d you dude. Not happening. you are fucking us all up with your venom.
ha, keep it real, nate.
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June 26th, 2009 / 7:14 pmNathan (Nate) Tyree—
Dude – I wasn’t stirring shit. I was just saying that all parties (PH, Brandon, Etc) deserve some slack.
I’m not on wikipedia as far as I know. And the book has sold about 2000 copies over five years, so it isn’t any great shakes. I have like 10 fans and seven of them are on my ceiling.
No venom here. I’m the only one being nice. I’m the one not attacking either brandon or madore.
Seriously, do I really come off as that big of an asshole? I don’t get it. To wit:
Having some relatives recently back from that brutal and senseless war, I cannot help but assume that he is in danger. That there is fear. pain. Wreck. If my assumption is true, then his anger (however directed) should be taken for rage that is deserved.
maybe I am wrong. Maybe he is in the rear with the gear. Still though, I’d rather give him the benefit of the doubt and take his words with the right attitude.
And, there is value in what he has to say. There are actual points hidden in his rant. Things to consider.
Toiling in obscurity has its charms.
AND:
Neither Brandon nor Tao are likely to be really upset by this. They both have a knack for turning negative notice into something positive (I admire that, by the way – I might also add that while I find much of this funny (the unnecessary quotes and such), I happen to like both Brandon and Tao. Brandon’s book is about to get a good review from me).
Both sides were being genuine (writers are supposed to do just that) and people not directly involved seem to be wigging out about it.
Nothin’ but love bro
June 26th, 2009 / 7:55 pmdavid erlewine—
nate, man, i was completely kidding around. dude, you’re great and as far as i can tell did NOTHING to stir anything up. sorry for being goofy (hard to read that over the internet sometime).
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June 26th, 2009 / 7:57 pmNathan (Nate) Tyree—
Sorry. My fault entirely. I tend to be slow witted when it comes to getting jokes.
June 26th, 2009 / 9:25 pmdavid erlewine—
ha, nate, especially when the jokes suck. no worries at all.
June 25th, 2009 / 8:04 pmCuauhtémoc Cortés Corrado—
or you are my mother or my boss
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I am feeling ‘fragile’.
I am going to lick my palms like Ferris.
I hope to feel ‘better’ and then go fuck something.
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I think everybody should take a ‘moment’ to remember that none of this is really ‘important’ now that Michael Jackson is ‘dead’. Or even dead. Without the quote marks. We should all live in peace and harmony, as Michael would have wanted us to do. Or, erm, something. I think I’ve overdosed on celebrity tributes. It’s affecting me badly.
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June 26th, 2009 / 12:02 pmCuauhtémoc Cortés Corrado—
Hold your baby over a railing today to honor ‘him’.
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hey all. just selling my ass for money. keep up the lively debate!
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June 26th, 2009 / 4:43 pmNathan Tyree—
Debate?
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By the way, you can order Brandon;s book here:
http://www.brandon-alien-fine.blogspot.com/
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Some things worth (I think) noting.
a) Anyone who knows what they’re whining about here ought to know pretty well that I have nothing against Tao Lin anymore. He and I made our peace the second half of last year. I thoroughly enjoyed his novel and am now finishing up his story collection. I do, however, take issue with his various coat-tail riders. Nonetheless, I bought their books. All of them. More to support Tao Lin than to support these chuckleheads, because I think he is a valuable asset to American letters. I think he takes writing more seriously than he will ever let on. His “followers” or whatever we’ll call them, they look more like sorority girls in their ramblings than anything else. And let us not forget the contest or other stunts Gorrell has pulled as a means of pissing on this already forgotten community which can’t wait to shoot itself in the foot at every opportunity (see compartmentalization).
b) I did not directly reference Brandon Scott Gorrell because (to be blunt) in ten years, when he has gone the way of bell bottom jeans and all funny short-lived fashion decisions, the way that I referenced him will still seem relevant; there will probably be someone else as egotistically lifeless and stunting. People will still be reading me in ten years, I’m guessing, supposing I survive the next six months, which, in the past six days there has been more activity in my area than the whole time we’ve been here. Bad things have been happening.
c) The oldest person to make any statement about my dispatch made no mention of immaturity. Perhaps she is as immature as I am in her old age? I just think that guts the immaturity argument.
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If you write something that is ignorant on any level, be prepared to deal with it.
Everyone should go do something constructive. If you consider this worth your time, it is probably taking a toll on your “professional” work (writing and otherwise) and possibly your lives.
I care about your lives. Which is why I am coming to take them in the year 2012.
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Another thing: shortly after this community gave Jereme Dean a thrashing one time, Jereme Dean wrote a long post on his blog about him supposedly going blind. Many people took sympathy on him as a result. This was a sympathy crutch. Unlike mine which was an offhand and vague reference in an essay. Jereme Dean would take pity over respect. I don’t think there are many people here who find themselves able to respect someone so negative and anger-prone. He mentions Sam Pink five times a day which is illustrative of his clubhouse mentality. Not that I don’t like Sam Pink; he’s one of the people here who doesn’t bullshit. Anyway, my point is that when it looked like Jereme Dean was starting to lose an argument (many people thought his view was bullshit), he wrote that long-winded post and people took to sympathizing with him. I didn’t comment on the post and I didn’t comment on the other one where he wrote about his anti-social leanings having been blessed with the opportunity to go to AWP. I didn’t say a fucking word because he’s a weak individual and I didn’t want to further weaken him. In this comments thread he has shown he doesn’t have any boundaries like I do, however, and this truly makes him the biggest piece of shit I’ve ever had to deal with (he’s the fourth individual of his kind to fuck with me since I started in the online writing thing in 2004).
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i think it’s pretty funny that the madore post starts more than one “flame war.”
good job everyone.
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HAHAHA MAN I TOTALLY FORGOT ABOUT THIS THREAD.
jesus christ Paul. You are so fucking petty. Let shit go for crying out loud.
I mean if i were like in daily peril in a foreign land the last thing i would worry about is dick wars on the internet.
or are you not in peril and kicking it with the other pencil pushers all safe and shit?
how do you get so much internet time while being stationed over there?
i think that is the burning question in my mind. how does petty little paul get so much time to do bullshit on the internets every fucking day while also running around iraq with a large dune coon killin rifle?
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and this is a shit storm?
who gives a fuck?
what is a shit-storm between people who cannot stand face to face?
what is beef between a person who will never have the opportunity to slap the fire out of the other?
all that can occur is that one person dislikes another and maybe those person will have more trouble getting into some specific zine.
who gives a fuck?
there will be no concrete consequence to this shit-storm. no one will be hurt (unless being insulted by people online is something you dread or fear). There will be no violence.
who gives a shit?
I liked the essay.
i’ve liked what i’ve read by brandon.
none of this matters.
is it possible to read literature without falling into the traps of one ego?
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people*
one’s*
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