March 25th, 2010 / 1:32 pm
Snippets

Who is the greatest rapper ever? I mean total package: fun, lyrics, beats, power. If you say Jay-Z, say it to yourself under your breath so I don’t have to slap a dummy.

563 Comments

  1. Lincoln

      “Biggie Smalls is the illest.”

  2. Lincoln

      “Biggie Smalls is the illest.”

  3. Nathan Tyree

      Chuck D

  4. Lincoln

      Although, and I know this makes me a backpacker or whatever, I probably enjoy MF Doom the most.

  5. Daniel Romo

      Pac

  6. Nathan Tyree

      Chuck D

  7. Lincoln

      Although, and I know this makes me a backpacker or whatever, I probably enjoy MF Doom the most.

  8. Daniel Romo

      Pac

  9. Lincoln

      barf

  10. Lincoln

      barf

  11. Blake Butler

      for lyrics doom is hard to beat, i gotta say. but he’s also like the antirapper rapper, which makes it weird.

  12. Blake Butler

      for lyrics doom is hard to beat, i gotta say. but he’s also like the antirapper rapper, which makes it weird.

  13. J Tang

      Nas

  14. Blake Butler

      the last track on Makaveli is one of my all time favorites

  15. J Tang

      Nas

  16. Blake Butler

      the last track on Makaveli is one of my all time favorites

  17. Lincoln

      His flow is also often amazing and some of his beats are incredibly sick, but I guess that’s a separate skill.

      He does dip into “how now brown cow” rapping at times though.

  18. Lincoln

      His flow is also often amazing and some of his beats are incredibly sick, but I guess that’s a separate skill.

      He does dip into “how now brown cow” rapping at times though.

  19. Matthew Simmons

      Guru

  20. Matthew Simmons

      barf seconded

  21. Lincoln

      I feel like Ghostface should be mentioned here. Sick flow and one of the most consistently awesome careers.

  22. Matthew Simmons

      Guru

  23. Matthew Simmons

      barf seconded

  24. Lincoln

      I feel like Ghostface should be mentioned here. Sick flow and one of the most consistently awesome careers.

  25. Matthew Simmons

      Of the Wu, I tend to say the GZA.

  26. Matthew Simmons

      Of the Wu, I tend to say the GZA.

  27. Matthew Simmons

      Yeah, but still: Brenda’s Got a Baby.

  28. Matthew Simmons

      Yeah, but still: Brenda’s Got a Baby.

  29. ce.

      Have to admit, the title of my blog was inspired by Del’s song “3030.”

      But, some of the other dudes on DefJux are up there with him: Aesop, El-P, & Lif to name a few.

  30. ce.

      Have to admit, the title of my blog was inspired by Del’s song “3030.”

      But, some of the other dudes on DefJux are up there with him: Aesop, El-P, & Lif to name a few.

  31. Alec Niedenthal

      Would I be “that guy” if I said Yoni Wolf?

  32. Stephen Pemberton

      Aesop Rock

  33. Alec Niedenthal

      Would I be “that guy” if I said Yoni Wolf?

  34. Stephen Pemberton

      Aesop Rock

  35. Chris

      ODB

  36. Lincoln

      I like Ghostface more but I also think he has put out far more awesome material. Liquid Swords is fantastic, but what else?

      Only Built 4 Cuban Linx (where Ghostface does like half the raps) and Supreme Clinetele are top 3 Wu solo albums. Then Ironman, Fishscale and Only built 4 Cuban Linx 2 are all totally sick and Pretty Tony was great.

      When is that Ghostface/DOOM collab dropping?

  37. Chris

      ODB

  38. Lincoln

      I like Ghostface more but I also think he has put out far more awesome material. Liquid Swords is fantastic, but what else?

      Only Built 4 Cuban Linx (where Ghostface does like half the raps) and Supreme Clinetele are top 3 Wu solo albums. Then Ironman, Fishscale and Only built 4 Cuban Linx 2 are all totally sick and Pretty Tony was great.

      When is that Ghostface/DOOM collab dropping?

  39. Sean Doyle

      Co-sign on Ghost.

  40. Sean Doyle

      Co-sign on Ghost.

  41. davidpeak

      seconded. i’ve never been able to get over that verse in “n.y. state of mind” about how the city never sleeps, it’s filled with villains and creeps. if only he’d stayed that good for the rest of his career.

  42. davidpeak

      seconded. i’ve never been able to get over that verse in “n.y. state of mind” about how the city never sleeps, it’s filled with villains and creeps. if only he’d stayed that good for the rest of his career.

  43. Blake Butler

      i like the ‘how now brown cow’ rhymes in their good places

      i’ve been going around saying ‘goony googoo loony coo coo’ all week

      but yeah man. his beats are the shit. i love the quasimoto records too.

  44. Blake Butler

      i like the ‘how now brown cow’ rhymes in their good places

      i’ve been going around saying ‘goony googoo loony coo coo’ all week

      but yeah man. his beats are the shit. i love the quasimoto records too.

  45. wmtwalsh

      LL Cool J: Radio. Bigger and Deffer. Walking with a Panther. And even Mama Said Knock You Out. No rapper since had his range in terms of style or reference.

      None of the Beastie Boys are great rappers, but they’ve made great albums.

  46. Blake Butler

      i’ll take GZA for sure

  47. davidpeak

      doseone might someday be looked back upon as one of the greatest. i fucking cherish my cLOUDDEAD 10″s.

  48. wmtwalsh

      LL Cool J: Radio. Bigger and Deffer. Walking with a Panther. And even Mama Said Knock You Out. No rapper since had his range in terms of style or reference.

      None of the Beastie Boys are great rappers, but they’ve made great albums.

  49. Blake Butler

      i’ll take GZA for sure

  50. davidpeak

      doseone might someday be looked back upon as one of the greatest. i fucking cherish my cLOUDDEAD 10″s.

  51. Lincoln

      yeah but he didn’t. too much lameness for him to be #1 imho.

  52. Blake Butler

      dose is something else. i can’t even think of him as a rapper anymore. he’s just like a magician. but yes.

  53. Lincoln

      yeah but he didn’t. too much lameness for him to be #1 imho.

  54. Blake Butler

      dose is something else. i can’t even think of him as a rapper anymore. he’s just like a magician. but yes.

  55. Amber

      Can I say top five?

      Biggie
      Chuck D
      Method Man
      Ice Cube
      Dre

      I love Common and Mos Def but I don’t think they fit straight up best rapper, per se…

  56. davidpeak

      kool keith

  57. Blake Butler

      i used to think Aesop yes, but he kinda wormed himself into a repetition box a little. needs a new album that rips. but Labor Days and Bazooka Tooth, and even most of Float are the shit for sure.

  58. Amber

      Can I say top five?

      Biggie
      Chuck D
      Method Man
      Ice Cube
      Dre

      I love Common and Mos Def but I don’t think they fit straight up best rapper, per se…

  59. davidpeak

      kool keith

  60. Blake Butler

      i used to think Aesop yes, but he kinda wormed himself into a repetition box a little. needs a new album that rips. but Labor Days and Bazooka Tooth, and even most of Float are the shit for sure.

  61. Blake Butler

      i gotta say yeah, you would. :P

  62. Blake Butler

      Del! both sides of the brain and 3030, masterpieces.

  63. Blake Butler

      supposedly last year. supposedly this year. supposedly next year.

  64. Blake Butler

      i gotta say yeah, you would. :P

  65. Blake Butler

      Del! both sides of the brain and 3030, masterpieces.

  66. Blake Butler

      supposedly last year. supposedly this year. supposedly next year.

  67. davidpeak

      yeah, it’s sad. but illmatic will forever be untouchable in my mind.

  68. davidpeak

      yeah, it’s sad. but illmatic will forever be untouchable in my mind.

  69. Blake Butler

      whenever i think of nas i think of ‘all i need is one mic’ which is about the lamest track ever.

      tupac kills nas.

  70. Blake Butler

      whenever i think of nas i think of ‘all i need is one mic’ which is about the lamest track ever.

      tupac kills nas.

  71. Gian

      Rakim. Period. You guys are idiots.

  72. Gian

      Rakim. Period. You guys are idiots.

  73. john sakkis

      solo artist post-BDP KRS-ONE hands down.

      as a crew early 90’s Wu-Tang.

  74. Ryan Call

      bazooka tooth kills me

  75. john sakkis

      solo artist post-BDP KRS-ONE hands down.

      as a crew early 90’s Wu-Tang.

  76. Ryan Call

      bazooka tooth kills me

  77. Molum Haggis

      Andre 3000?

  78. Molum Haggis

      Andre 3000?

  79. Gian
  80. Gian
  81. davidpeak

      this morning on the train i sat next to a teenage girl listening to “that’s the way it is” or whatever on her ipod and i thought, “i really hate tupac.”

  82. G Stuart

      Big Boi. I have thought about this a lot and it is definitely Big Boi.

  83. davidpeak

      this morning on the train i sat next to a teenage girl listening to “that’s the way it is” or whatever on her ipod and i thought, “i really hate tupac.”

  84. G Stuart

      Big Boi. I have thought about this a lot and it is definitely Big Boi.

  85. Matthew Simmons

      no need for alarm

  86. Matthew Simmons

      no need for alarm

  87. Andrew Zornoza
  88. JW

      For ‘total package: fun, lyrics, beats, power’ it has to be Biggie. But I’ma go with Jeru. Not so much fun, but massive in terms of lyrics, beats and power.

  89. Andrew Zornoza
  90. JW

      For ‘total package: fun, lyrics, beats, power’ it has to be Biggie. But I’ma go with Jeru. Not so much fun, but massive in terms of lyrics, beats and power.

  91. Blake Butler

      big boi i think has proven himself as the genius behind outkast ever since the double album split. andre up through stankonia was just a killer but since then he’s kind of turned into a goofball, i think, while big boi continues to put it down. hey ya? good once, then ouch. i really think they just shine best together, and as a pair are pretty high up there, but take them apart and it isn’t quite the same.

  92. Matthew Simmons

      OGian

  93. Blake Butler

      big boi i think has proven himself as the genius behind outkast ever since the double album split. andre up through stankonia was just a killer but since then he’s kind of turned into a goofball, i think, while big boi continues to put it down. hey ya? good once, then ouch. i really think they just shine best together, and as a pair are pretty high up there, but take them apart and it isn’t quite the same.

  94. Matthew Simmons

      OGian

  95. ce.

      Yeah, man. 3030 is a constant spin for me. Not sure I could ever get enough of that record.

      You know anything about the new Gorillaz record? My buddy Sam said really good things, but I don’t know how much part Del played in this one, so I’ve been curious, but haven’t had time to snag it.

  96. Matthew Simmons

      I said Guru instead of Rakim because Rakim is not a rapper. Rakim is rap.

  97. ce.

      Yeah, man. 3030 is a constant spin for me. Not sure I could ever get enough of that record.

      You know anything about the new Gorillaz record? My buddy Sam said really good things, but I don’t know how much part Del played in this one, so I’ve been curious, but haven’t had time to snag it.

  98. Matthew Simmons

      I said Guru instead of Rakim because Rakim is not a rapper. Rakim is rap.

  99. Blake Butler

      i don’t think del’s been with gorillaz since the first one. may be wrong, but pretty sure not.

      he did put out a new record like two years ago. i can’t remember the name of it, but it’s got some great stuff on it.

  100. Blake Butler

      i don’t think del’s been with gorillaz since the first one. may be wrong, but pretty sure not.

      he did put out a new record like two years ago. i can’t remember the name of it, but it’s got some great stuff on it.

  101. Alec Niedenthal

      I don’t think Del is on the new Gorillaz. I listened to it once and hated it, but it’s gotten great reviews, so who knows.

  102. Alec Niedenthal

      Oops, I responded to the wrong thing.

  103. Alec Niedenthal

      I don’t think Del is on the new Gorillaz. I listened to it once and hated it, but it’s gotten great reviews, so who knows.

  104. Alec Niedenthal

      Oops, I responded to the wrong thing.

  105. Matthew Simmons

      Andre 3000 is hip hop’s Frank Zappa. “Prototype” could’ve been on Joe’s Garage.

  106. JMW

      for timbre of voice, uniqueness, variety RZA aka Bobby Digital

  107. Alec Niedenthal

      Yeah, Shine Blockas was one of my favorite singles last year. He’s amazing.

  108. Matthew Simmons

      Andre 3000 is hip hop’s Frank Zappa. “Prototype” could’ve been on Joe’s Garage.

  109. JMW

      for timbre of voice, uniqueness, variety RZA aka Bobby Digital

  110. Alec Niedenthal

      Yeah, Shine Blockas was one of my favorite singles last year. He’s amazing.

  111. kfan

      Seconded on both counts. Can’t believe I had to scroll down this far before anyone mentioned him.

  112. Blake Butler

      andrew 3000 is the white frank zappa

  113. kfan

      Seconded on both counts. Can’t believe I had to scroll down this far before anyone mentioned him.

  114. Blake Butler

      andrew 3000 is the white frank zappa

  115. Lincoln

      Rakim is probably the best rapper, but I’m not sure he is the “total package” Blake refers to over Biggie.

  116. The JZA

      Definitely somebody from ‘Kast. I am leaning towards pre-Love Below Andre 3000.

  117. Lincoln

      Rakim is probably the best rapper, but I’m not sure he is the “total package” Blake refers to over Biggie.

  118. The JZA

      Definitely somebody from ‘Kast. I am leaning towards pre-Love Below Andre 3000.

  119. Brian Foley

      I miss ol’ party rap. Kurtis Blow.

  120. Brian Foley

      I miss ol’ party rap. Kurtis Blow.

  121. ryan

      dan le sac

  122. christian

      liquid swords gets my vote for best album.

      don’t know if i have a best rapper.

      krs-one is a sentimental favorite.

  123. Tony O'Neill

      Just in terms of who i listen to again and again, I’d have a hard time choosing between Old Dirty Bastard, Biggie and Slick Rick.

  124. ryan

      dan le sac

  125. christian

      liquid swords gets my vote for best album.

      don’t know if i have a best rapper.

      krs-one is a sentimental favorite.

  126. Tony O'Neill

      Just in terms of who i listen to again and again, I’d have a hard time choosing between Old Dirty Bastard, Biggie and Slick Rick.

  127. ce.

      i thought he’d done a bit more since the first record. admittedly, i haven’t followed music nearly as close in the past few years since i’ve gotten out of school as i did while in college. when i hear buzz from a few pals with similar tastes, i’ll check stuff out, but beyond that…

  128. Blake Butler

      i wish i could just forget everything from andre after stankonia. i don’t think i can go back.

  129. ce.

      i thought he’d done a bit more since the first record. admittedly, i haven’t followed music nearly as close in the past few years since i’ve gotten out of school as i did while in college. when i hear buzz from a few pals with similar tastes, i’ll check stuff out, but beyond that…

  130. Blake Butler

      i wish i could just forget everything from andre after stankonia. i don’t think i can go back.

  131. Gene Morgan

      Yesssss

      httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnbO8GE4V5M

  132. Gene Morgan

      Yesssss

      httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnbO8GE4V5M

  133. Blake Butler

      big boi’s half of the double album so destroys andre’s. that man is serious. can’t wait for the new one.

  134. Christian Powers

      Win.

  135. (Ass-Brackets)

      Gil-Scot Heron and Rudy Ray Moore.

  136. Blake Butler

      big boi’s half of the double album so destroys andre’s. that man is serious. can’t wait for the new one.

  137. Christian Powers

      Win.

  138. (Ass-Brackets)

      Gil-Scot Heron and Rudy Ray Moore.

  139. Lincoln

      Agreed

  140. Lincoln

      Agreed

  141. ZZZZIPP

      ANDRE 3000 DOESN’T KNOW RESTRAINT

  142. Gene Morgan

      Scarface is one of the best storytellers of all time.

      httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbQEI4Wt70w

  143. ZZZZIPP

      ANDRE 3000 DOESN’T KNOW RESTRAINT

  144. Gene Morgan

      Scarface is one of the best storytellers of all time.

      httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbQEI4Wt70w

  145. JW

      ouch

  146. JW

      ouch

  147. Daniel Romo

      Gerardo?

  148. Daniel Romo

      Gerardo?

  149. Tyler

      Beastie Boys! I agree with the idea that they are not “great rappers,” but man they are sweet music-makers.

      I got Check Your Head at some big-time record store’s discount bin for 2.99. That was nice.

  150. Tyler

      Beastie Boys! I agree with the idea that they are not “great rappers,” but man they are sweet music-makers.

      I got Check Your Head at some big-time record store’s discount bin for 2.99. That was nice.

  151. Tyler
  152. Tyler
  153. Donald Dunbar

      Not for beats, but for the whole lyrical package

      Aceyalone circa All Balls Don’t Bounce

      “All Balls” and “Anywhere You Go” are great places to start (coming at the beginning of the album) but “Greatest Show on Earth” and “Arhythamaticulas” are A+’s too…

  154. Lincoln

      How much of Paul’s Boutique was them and how much was the Dust brothers though?

  155. Donald Dunbar

      Not for beats, but for the whole lyrical package

      Aceyalone circa All Balls Don’t Bounce

      “All Balls” and “Anywhere You Go” are great places to start (coming at the beginning of the album) but “Greatest Show on Earth” and “Arhythamaticulas” are A+’s too…

  156. Lincoln

      How much of Paul’s Boutique was them and how much was the Dust brothers though?

  157. Tony O'Neill
  158. Tony O'Neill
  159. Matthew Simmons

      Did you know I’m half Ger-man?

  160. stephen

      Tupac Shakur

  161. stephen

      or maybe Lil Wayne. Lil Wayne is 2 if he’s not 1 (no, I’m not joking)

  162. Matthew Simmons

      Did you know I’m half Ger-man?

  163. stephen

      Tupac Shakur

  164. stephen

      or maybe Lil Wayne. Lil Wayne is 2 if he’s not 1 (no, I’m not joking)

  165. rion

      GZA!

  166. rion

      Those guys all suck.

  167. Matthew Simmons

      Snow?

  168. Matthew Simmons

      Milk from Audio Two.

  169. rion

      GZA!

  170. rion

      Those guys all suck.

  171. Matthew Simmons

      Snow?

  172. Matthew Simmons

      Milk from Audio Two.

  173. stephen
  174. stephen
  175. stephen

      damn, you don’t like “hey ya!”? i don’t care if im tired of it, still easily one of the best songs, let alone singles, of the decade

  176. stephen

      damn, you don’t like “hey ya!”? i don’t care if im tired of it, still easily one of the best songs, let alone singles, of the decade

  177. stephen

      Doom’s cool

  178. Amber

      Oh, shit. Forgot Rakim. Yep.

  179. stephen

      Doom’s cool

  180. Amber

      Oh, shit. Forgot Rakim. Yep.

  181. Gene Morgan

      Pimp C, R.I.P.

  182. Gene Morgan

      Pimp C, R.I.P.

  183. Blake Butler

      for real

  184. Blake Butler

      for real

  185. stephen

      someone who “listened to rap primarily and who was not a college professor or a white person” would not barf, for the record.

  186. stephen

      someone who “listened to rap primarily and who was not a college professor or a white person” would not barf, for the record.

  187. Daniel Romo

      Long live Redhead Kingpin.

  188. Lincoln

      Sorry, Tupac is a fine enough rapper, but he was never one of the greats. Honestly, would he be that notable if he was from the east coast? Dude became really famous because he was the best rapper on the mainstream west coast scene and a lot of people live out west. Well, that and he died young.

      If he was on the east coast competing with Biggie, Nas, Jay Z, the entire Wu-Tang clan and the rest of those dudes in the 90s I don’t think he’d ever enter a best of all time debate.

      The sun rises in the east, people!

      my 2 cents.

  189. Daniel Romo

      Long live Redhead Kingpin.

  190. Lincoln

      Sorry, Tupac is a fine enough rapper, but he was never one of the greats. Honestly, would he be that notable if he was from the east coast? Dude became really famous because he was the best rapper on the mainstream west coast scene and a lot of people live out west. Well, that and he died young.

      If he was on the east coast competing with Biggie, Nas, Jay Z, the entire Wu-Tang clan and the rest of those dudes in the 90s I don’t think he’d ever enter a best of all time debate.

      The sun rises in the east, people!

      my 2 cents.

  191. stephen

      agreed. i “respect” nas, but i can’t get into him. i would rather just listen to this instrumental of his song “hero” (prod. polow da don) than listen to him rap on it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBts5kmh2j0

  192. stephen

      agreed. i “respect” nas, but i can’t get into him. i would rather just listen to this instrumental of his song “hero” (prod. polow da don) than listen to him rap on it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBts5kmh2j0

  193. Lincoln

      I also bet a lot of white professors wanting to sound hip would call Tupac the best and then talk about how socially conscious he was

  194. Lincoln

      I also bet a lot of white professors wanting to sound hip would call Tupac the best and then talk about how socially conscious he was

  195. stephen

      point re: some college professors. still, talk to someone who “lives, eats, and breathes rap” and they’d have a whoole lot of things to say to you about tupac that are not covered in your “description” here

  196. stephen

      point re: some college professors. still, talk to someone who “lives, eats, and breathes rap” and they’d have a whoole lot of things to say to you about tupac that are not covered in your “description” here

  197. Lincoln

      I know a lot of hip-hop heads who agree with me!

  198. stephen

      this is possibly the single least qualified internet community imaginable for deciding the best rapper

  199. Lincoln

      I know a lot of hip-hop heads who agree with me!

  200. stephen

      this is possibly the single least qualified internet community imaginable for deciding the best rapper

  201. stephen

      are said hip-hop heads into atmosphere or brother ali? do they wear backpacks? do they wear glasses? do they live on the east coast? do they think mos def is the greatest of all time (not knocking mos)?

  202. stephen

      are said hip-hop heads into atmosphere or brother ali? do they wear backpacks? do they wear glasses? do they live on the east coast? do they think mos def is the greatest of all time (not knocking mos)?

  203. PHC

      -if you don’t think Jay-Z is a legitimate answer you barely listen to rap music.

      -andre 3000 has done a handful of dope songs post-stankonia. confirming that you barely listen to rap music, maybe.

      -either way a much better question would be favorite verses.

      -as for the original question, I’d also prob go with Scarface. not a lot of love for the south in this thread tho, other than Outkast of course.

  204. PHC

      -if you don’t think Jay-Z is a legitimate answer you barely listen to rap music.

      -andre 3000 has done a handful of dope songs post-stankonia. confirming that you barely listen to rap music, maybe.

      -either way a much better question would be favorite verses.

      -as for the original question, I’d also prob go with Scarface. not a lot of love for the south in this thread tho, other than Outkast of course.

  205. Daniel Romo

      this is possibly the single least qualified internet community imaginable for deciding the best rapper

      I completely agree with you Stephen.

  206. stephen

      i think part of the reason why tupac is so loved by his own community and not as attractive to “some people” is bc there’s r&b and gospel and such weaved into the rap, moreso than in biggie, and those elements are not as welcome to “some people” or they can’t relate to it. i say this as an observation, i dont think i can “properly” appreciate him either. like some black kid in my middle school told me this is one of 2pac’s best:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRJTQ7FHx0o

  207. Daniel Romo

      this is possibly the single least qualified internet community imaginable for deciding the best rapper

      I completely agree with you Stephen.

  208. stephen

      i think part of the reason why tupac is so loved by his own community and not as attractive to “some people” is bc there’s r&b and gospel and such weaved into the rap, moreso than in biggie, and those elements are not as welcome to “some people” or they can’t relate to it. i say this as an observation, i dont think i can “properly” appreciate him either. like some black kid in my middle school told me this is one of 2pac’s best:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRJTQ7FHx0o

  209. stephen

      i mean, if that’s not socially conscious rap, WTF is?

  210. Lincoln

      Um, no. You’ll notice my answers in here are Biggie, Ghostface, Rakim and shit, not people like Slug or brother Ali.

      No offense here, but aren’t you a white dude? Seems weird to jump and call everyone a white backpacker in here.

      My hip-hop head friends are not hipster backpackers and most of them aren’t white. They do live on the east coast, but as jeru said, the sun rises in the east.

      To be entirely honest, I find Tupac to be far more popular amongst backpacker Mos Def/Atmosphere types!

  211. stephen

      i mean, if that’s not socially conscious rap, WTF is?

  212. Lincoln

      Um, no. You’ll notice my answers in here are Biggie, Ghostface, Rakim and shit, not people like Slug or brother Ali.

      No offense here, but aren’t you a white dude? Seems weird to jump and call everyone a white backpacker in here.

      My hip-hop head friends are not hipster backpackers and most of them aren’t white. They do live on the east coast, but as jeru said, the sun rises in the east.

      To be entirely honest, I find Tupac to be far more popular amongst backpacker Mos Def/Atmosphere types!

  213. Lincoln

      Dude, there are plenty of black people who don’t think Tupac is the best rapper ever. You don’t need to turn this into a race thing…

  214. Lincoln

      Dude, there are plenty of black people who don’t think Tupac is the best rapper ever. You don’t need to turn this into a race thing…

  215. Blake Butler

      yes, because people who like books and are online couldn’t have an opinion about rap.

      dumb.

  216. Blake Butler

      yes, because people who like books and are online couldn’t have an opinion about rap.

      dumb.

  217. Craig Davis

      Correct answers key to “best ever” rap arguments b/n white men, aged 19-35:

      Rapper = Rakim.

      Album = ATLiens.

      Group = De La Soul.

      Year = 1996

      White specimen = Beasty Boys

      Female = interchangeble token response

      Murder rap = Mobb Deep

      Conscious = Public Enemy

      Emo = Atmosphere

      Backpack = Aesop

      Silly = Pharcyde

      Militant = Dead Prez

      Producer = Pete Rock

      Guilty Pleasure = Jazzy Jeff

      Old School = Kool Herc

      Gangsta = NWA

      Marijuana Anthem = “I Got Five On It”

      90’s East Coast = Biggie

      90’s South = Geto Boys

      90’s Midwest = Common

      90’s West Coast = nothing really stands out

      Hardest Fall-off = The Roots

      Most Improved after embarassing (contribution to) first album = Big Boi

      Best authenticating declaration of classic status for an obscure artist = depends on verifiable degree of “realness” of co-arguers

      *all of the above may carry the legitimate qualifier “early work of…”

  218. Craig Davis

      Correct answers key to “best ever” rap arguments b/n white men, aged 19-35:

      Rapper = Rakim.

      Album = ATLiens.

      Group = De La Soul.

      Year = 1996

      White specimen = Beasty Boys

      Female = interchangeble token response

      Murder rap = Mobb Deep

      Conscious = Public Enemy

      Emo = Atmosphere

      Backpack = Aesop

      Silly = Pharcyde

      Militant = Dead Prez

      Producer = Pete Rock

      Guilty Pleasure = Jazzy Jeff

      Old School = Kool Herc

      Gangsta = NWA

      Marijuana Anthem = “I Got Five On It”

      90’s East Coast = Biggie

      90’s South = Geto Boys

      90’s Midwest = Common

      90’s West Coast = nothing really stands out

      Hardest Fall-off = The Roots

      Most Improved after embarassing (contribution to) first album = Big Boi

      Best authenticating declaration of classic status for an obscure artist = depends on verifiable degree of “realness” of co-arguers

      *all of the above may carry the legitimate qualifier “early work of…”

  219. Blake Butler
    • Blake Butler

    • stephen

        opinion is one thing. but you need perspective and an understanding of the rap community/history to have a credible best rapper ever type thing. rap is tied to the community. there is no place for pretentiousness in the rap community (social consciousness is not pretentiousness). this community is pretentious (including me, and get as mad as you like, it’s true). people in this community visit the online blogs of the rap community at best.

    • stephen

        opinion is one thing. but you need perspective and an understanding of the rap community/history to have a credible best rapper ever type thing. rap is tied to the community. there is no place for pretentiousness in the rap community (social consciousness is not pretentiousness). this community is pretentious (including me, and get as mad as you like, it’s true). people in this community visit the online blogs of the rap community at best.

    • Blake Butler

        yall some assuming, ignorant mothafuckas

        how u like dat

    • Blake Butler

        yall some assuming, ignorant mothafuckas

        how u like dat

    • !

        lol! Worst backpacker answer in the whole thread.

    • stephen

        being the millionth white guy to be like “yo, ghost/RZA the dopest, yo” is all fine and dandy, though, so whatever. apparently, we’re too cool for andre 300 now? please…

    • !

        lol! Worst backpacker answer in the whole thread.

    • stephen

        being the millionth white guy to be like “yo, ghost/RZA the dopest, yo” is all fine and dandy, though, so whatever. apparently, we’re too cool for andre 300 now? please…

    • anna

        i don’t think i would bother reading the 100 plus comments of whoever the most qualified internet community is

    • LK

        What about that charming fellow named Mos Def, especially on “Black Star” and “Black on Both Sides”? I used to like him a lot. Also what about Q-Tip? Both are lovers more than fighters, which is probably why I like ’em. Abstract poets, prominent like Shakespeare.

    • anna

        i don’t think i would bother reading the 100 plus comments of whoever the most qualified internet community is

    • LK

        What about that charming fellow named Mos Def, especially on “Black Star” and “Black on Both Sides”? I used to like him a lot. Also what about Q-Tip? Both are lovers more than fighters, which is probably why I like ’em. Abstract poets, prominent like Shakespeare.

    • Craig Davis

        This is the first time I’ve ever been offended, actually offended, by someone’s comments about rap music. The utterance “Forgot Rakim” is worse than “fire” in a crowded theater. I’m no lawyer, but I think its against the constitution…maybe even against the law.

    • Craig Davis

        This is the first time I’ve ever been offended, actually offended, by someone’s comments about rap music. The utterance “Forgot Rakim” is worse than “fire” in a crowded theater. I’m no lawyer, but I think its against the constitution…maybe even against the law.

    • BAC

        “the only man that walked through hell / dick swinging like shit went well”

    • stephen

        glad you’re racist, anna

    • BAC

        “the only man that walked through hell / dick swinging like shit went well”

    • stephen

        glad you’re racist, anna

    • Daniel Romo

        white people are funny.

    • Daniel Romo

        white people are funny.

    • Lincoln

        I think if you are a white dude it is probably best to avoid making white guy jokes, especially if your answers are basically interchangeable with the answers of the people you are talking to. Tupac and Lil Wayne are not like more authentic answers than the rappers Blake and I have been talking about. At least drop those lines on the people bringing up Why? and Del or something.

        Anyway, I was really just engaging in some light-hearted east coast/west coast beefing by saying barf to Tupac (though I do not think he is one of the top five rappers of all time)

    • BAC

        But the best verse on liquid swords comes from rza. “Hey, yo/ camoflauge chameleon/ninja’s scaling your building/no time to grab your gun they already got your wife and children/a hit was sent by the president/to raid your residence/because you had evidence and document/ of how they raped the African continent/a list of dominant prominent islamic/asiatic black hebrew/the year 2002/the battles still with the wu. . . . . ..

    • Lincoln

        I think if you are a white dude it is probably best to avoid making white guy jokes, especially if your answers are basically interchangeable with the answers of the people you are talking to. Tupac and Lil Wayne are not like more authentic answers than the rappers Blake and I have been talking about. At least drop those lines on the people bringing up Why? and Del or something.

        Anyway, I was really just engaging in some light-hearted east coast/west coast beefing by saying barf to Tupac (though I do not think he is one of the top five rappers of all time)

    • BAC

        But the best verse on liquid swords comes from rza. “Hey, yo/ camoflauge chameleon/ninja’s scaling your building/no time to grab your gun they already got your wife and children/a hit was sent by the president/to raid your residence/because you had evidence and document/ of how they raped the African continent/a list of dominant prominent islamic/asiatic black hebrew/the year 2002/the battles still with the wu. . . . . ..

    • stephen

        can we get a screen shot of this and put it on the back of the next BB book?

    • stephen

        can we get a screen shot of this and put it on the back of the next BB book?

    • just sayin....

        stephen, im not tryin to be a dick but you kinda come across like an over-opinionated douche sometimes. maybe it’s just that you come across kinda bad when you comment? maybe youre a perfectly nice guy when youre not hunched over a computer screen, but damn…..

    • stephen

        and i should be nicer, and yes, you do appreciate 2pac, “some people” would say that’s “encouraging” vis-a-vis you not being like “most white guys who live on lit blogs”

    • Seth

        Exscuse me Craig Davis:

        1990’s West Coast “nothing stands out”…..

        Pharcyde’s Bizarre Ride II the Pharcyde, or Freestyle Fellowship’s Innercity Griots.

        The above post really upset me. And please don’t forget Yall So Stupid (ATL). Please go back to school if necessary.

    • just sayin....

        stephen, im not tryin to be a dick but you kinda come across like an over-opinionated douche sometimes. maybe it’s just that you come across kinda bad when you comment? maybe youre a perfectly nice guy when youre not hunched over a computer screen, but damn…..

    • stephen

        and i should be nicer, and yes, you do appreciate 2pac, “some people” would say that’s “encouraging” vis-a-vis you not being like “most white guys who live on lit blogs”

    • Seth

        Exscuse me Craig Davis:

        1990’s West Coast “nothing stands out”…..

        Pharcyde’s Bizarre Ride II the Pharcyde, or Freestyle Fellowship’s Innercity Griots.

        The above post really upset me. And please don’t forget Yall So Stupid (ATL). Please go back to school if necessary.

    • Lincoln

        snore

    • Lincoln

        snore

    • stephen

        also, i would just like to say, yall, white guys who live on lit blogs have feelings too and greatest rapper preferences too, yall.

    • BAC

        Ghetto Boys love.

        I grew up in the fifth ward. Me and Bushwick Bill used to eat instant oatmeal together.

        someone should write an essay on the literary genres evidenced in “My Mind was Playing Tricks on Me.”

    • stephen

        was that harsh? not sure…

    • stephen

        also, i would just like to say, yall, white guys who live on lit blogs have feelings too and greatest rapper preferences too, yall.

    • BAC

        Ghetto Boys love.

        I grew up in the fifth ward. Me and Bushwick Bill used to eat instant oatmeal together.

        someone should write an essay on the literary genres evidenced in “My Mind was Playing Tricks on Me.”

    • stephen

        was that harsh? not sure…

    • BAC

        Rico Suave.

    • !

        It seems impossible to read stephen’s posts as saying anything other than “I have black friends!”

    • Blake Butler

        not harsh. just stupid.

    • stephen

        funny thing is, i don’t particularly, and still know this shit!

    • BAC

        Rico Suave.

    • !

        It seems impossible to read stephen’s posts as saying anything other than “I have black friends!”

    • Blake Butler

        not harsh. just stupid.

    • stephen

        funny thing is, i don’t particularly, and still know this shit!

    • !

        white professor without black friends making jokes about white professors without black friends? gotta smoke some weed to understand this thread I guess

    • stephen

        did go to a black church and predominantly black schools until high school, though. does alter your perspective. thanks for asking, exclamation point is it?

    • !

        white professor without black friends making jokes about white professors without black friends? gotta smoke some weed to understand this thread I guess

    • stephen

        did go to a black church and predominantly black schools until high school, though. does alter your perspective. thanks for asking, exclamation point is it?

    • stephen

        i’m not a professor, bro. neither is blake. i’m pretty sure blake and i both have a tendency to “occasionally flame ppl”

    • stephen

        i’m not a professor, bro. neither is blake. i’m pretty sure blake and i both have a tendency to “occasionally flame ppl”

    • Craig Davis

        Rap music has been the dominant musical form and primary cultural lingua franca in this country for the last 25 years. I can’t imagine anyone born after 1975 in the United States who lacks adequate perspective to participate in a simple declaration of opinions.

    • Craig Davis

        Rap music has been the dominant musical form and primary cultural lingua franca in this country for the last 25 years. I can’t imagine anyone born after 1975 in the United States who lacks adequate perspective to participate in a simple declaration of opinions.

    • stephen

        sorry, lincoln. you’re right, probably…. i do think thought that bringing biases as complicated as the ones you may have re: Lit over to Rap doesn’t make a lot of sense, though. it’s a pretty different ball o’ wax

    • stephen

        sorry, lincoln. you’re right, probably…. i do think thought that bringing biases as complicated as the ones you may have re: Lit over to Rap doesn’t make a lot of sense, though. it’s a pretty different ball o’ wax

    • stephen

        you could argue it. the thread would undoubtedly be predominantly black, and she’s assuming it would not be worth reading, which assumes who’s in it and how they write and talk and how well they can think.

    • stephen

        you could argue it. the thread would undoubtedly be predominantly black, and she’s assuming it would not be worth reading, which assumes who’s in it and how they write and talk and how well they can think.

    • stephen

        sorry, used one of the words that isn’t allowed (file next to “pretentious,” “hipster”)

    • stephen

        sorry, used one of the words that isn’t allowed (file next to “pretentious,” “hipster”)

    • Amelia Gray

        I am starting to think you are not actually glad that anna is racist

    • Amelia Gray

        I am starting to think you are not actually glad that anna is racist

    • stephen

        sorry, blake, rap music, black people, white people and racism are “very touchy issues” with me, “for some reason”

    • Lincoln

        can you expand this thought? I honestly just don’t know what you mean regarding importing my biases about literature over to rap?

        As said, I was just engaging in some light hearted west/east beefing by mocking tupac

    • stephen

        sorry, blake, rap music, black people, white people and racism are “very touchy issues” with me, “for some reason”

    • Lincoln

        can you expand this thought? I honestly just don’t know what you mean regarding importing my biases about literature over to rap?

        As said, I was just engaging in some light hearted west/east beefing by mocking tupac

    • Travis
      • stephen

          oh, and thx 4 responding to my email (actually smiled while typing that)

      • stephen

          oh, and thx 4 responding to my email (actually smiled while typing that)

      • stephen

          “author mystique” is really not going to exist anymore in this generation, is it… haha…. getting into internet ragers concerning favorite rappers, all kinds of random shit… funny i guess

      • stephen

          “author mystique” is really not going to exist anymore in this generation, is it… haha…. getting into internet ragers concerning favorite rappers, all kinds of random shit… funny i guess

      • Matt Cozart

          debbie harry

      • stephen

          oh ok, guess i read that wrong. idk i think saying anything on this thread was a mistake. whatever

      • Matt Cozart

          debbie harry

      • stephen

          oh ok, guess i read that wrong. idk i think saying anything on this thread was a mistake. whatever

      • Blake Butler

          haha. goodjob.

      • Blake Butler

          i’m glad this video closes the case on jay z

      • Blake Butler

          haha. goodjob.

      • Blake Butler

          i’m glad this video closes the case on jay z

      • stephen

          hey “just sayin'” thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt. id like to say both of your views are correct. i should “work on that.” as i said below, i’m touchy about whites, blacks, rap, and racism, esp. subtle or not-usually-defined-as-racism-racism, but that doesnt excuse being a douche. sorry, bro (or lady).

      • stephen

          hey “just sayin'” thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt. id like to say both of your views are correct. i should “work on that.” as i said below, i’m touchy about whites, blacks, rap, and racism, esp. subtle or not-usually-defined-as-racism-racism, but that doesnt excuse being a douche. sorry, bro (or lady).

      • stephen

          there is part of me, which unfortunately seems to emerge on internet forums, that is still a know-it-all 12 yr. old like, fuckin’ reading the new york times pompously while the rest of my family carves halloween pumpkins. HATE that fuckin’ kid!

      • stephen

          there is part of me, which unfortunately seems to emerge on internet forums, that is still a know-it-all 12 yr. old like, fuckin’ reading the new york times pompously while the rest of my family carves halloween pumpkins. HATE that fuckin’ kid!

      • stephen
      • Blake Butler

          rap is a very touchy issue with you?

      • stephen
      • Blake Butler

          rap is a very touchy issue with you?

      • stephen

          i really am SUCH a white guy… kind of hate myself, actually. love yall!

      • Matthew Simmons

          Travis, are you nominating yourself for Best Rapper? Looks like it.

      • stephen

          i really am SUCH a white guy… kind of hate myself, actually. love yall!

      • Matthew Simmons

          Travis, are you nominating yourself for Best Rapper? Looks like it.

      • Matthew Simmons

          Kweli’s got it all over Mos.

      • Matthew Simmons

          Kweli’s got it all over Mos.

      • stephen

          yea, it actually is. is that weird? black quarterbacks, rap, some other things, are touchy with me. as i said above, sorry for being a douche. love you, blake (in an internet kind of way)

      • Blake Butler

          i will respond to the emails, i promise. just very underwater with the inbox. not overlooked, promise.

      • Lincoln

          There is plenty of reason to be touchy about racial issues, but I don’t think you should automatically assume that different preferences about black rappers necessarily signifies anything about racial attitudes.

          I mean honestly, as much as this internet forum is hardly the most knowledgeable about rap music (and I agree with you there), I had similar discussions with black super hip-hop dudes and teh conversation plays out pretty similar there I think. well, minus all the anticon rappers, but most people in here are talking about Rakim, Tupac, Biggie, Nas, Guru, Big Boi, KRS-One… in short, the people always talked about.

      • stephen

          yea, it actually is. is that weird? black quarterbacks, rap, some other things, are touchy with me. as i said above, sorry for being a douche. love you, blake (in an internet kind of way)

      • Blake Butler

          i will respond to the emails, i promise. just very underwater with the inbox. not overlooked, promise.

      • Lincoln

          There is plenty of reason to be touchy about racial issues, but I don’t think you should automatically assume that different preferences about black rappers necessarily signifies anything about racial attitudes.

          I mean honestly, as much as this internet forum is hardly the most knowledgeable about rap music (and I agree with you there), I had similar discussions with black super hip-hop dudes and teh conversation plays out pretty similar there I think. well, minus all the anticon rappers, but most people in here are talking about Rakim, Tupac, Biggie, Nas, Guru, Big Boi, KRS-One… in short, the people always talked about.

      • stephen

          i need to take 16 chill pills or smoke some weed. sorry, internet, i hate me too.

      • stephen

          i need to take 16 chill pills or smoke some weed. sorry, internet, i hate me too.

      • Lincoln

          too bad you weren’t here for Blake and my’s Stay Fly vs. Kryptonite argument

      • stephen

          oh i know, blake, and honestly, if you didnt, i would understand. also, as it turns out, that piece is probably not going to be in the magazine, so feel free to “skip it”

      • Lincoln

          too bad you weren’t here for Blake and my’s Stay Fly vs. Kryptonite argument

      • stephen

          oh i know, blake, and honestly, if you didnt, i would understand. also, as it turns out, that piece is probably not going to be in the magazine, so feel free to “skip it”

      • Blake Butler

          Q Tip is solid but a little in the box for my taste. I actually think Phife is underrated.

      • Blake Butler

          Q Tip is solid but a little in the box for my taste. I actually think Phife is underrated.

      • Blake Butler

          but i can listen to Tribe all day and feel happy. that trio of their middle albums is solid and beautiful.

      • Lincoln

          I wanted to say something about Clipse to represent Va, but their last album is such garbage and has the worst cover art ever :(

      • Blake Butler

          but i can listen to Tribe all day and feel happy. that trio of their middle albums is solid and beautiful.

      • Lincoln

          I wanted to say something about Clipse to represent Va, but their last album is such garbage and has the worst cover art ever :(

      • Blake Butler
        • davidpeak

            i like a lot of the re-up mixtapes

        • Blake Butler

        • davidpeak

            i like a lot of the re-up mixtapes

        • Gian

            This is true.

        • Gian

            This is true.

        • Seth

            Just so I’m clear, Freestyle Fellowship = snore?

        • Seth

            Just so I’m clear, Freestyle Fellowship = snore?

        • Gian

            You can tell I don’t listen to rap anymore, can’t you?

        • Gian

            You can tell I don’t listen to rap anymore, can’t you?

        • Lincoln

            whole west coazzzzzz

        • Lincoln

            whole west coazzzzzz

        • PHC

            terrible, terrible, terrible. but has nothing to do w jay z as a rapper. WEAK SHIT.

        • PHC

            terrible, terrible, terrible. but has nothing to do w jay z as a rapper. WEAK SHIT.

        • Blake Butler

            all dude talks about is money and image. and brooklyn. boring.

        • Blake Butler

            all dude talks about is money and image. and brooklyn. boring.

        • anna

            well i was kind of going more for the view that reading the comments of a less-qualified internet community has more entertainment value for me than me trying to understand a more authoritative discussion of who’s the best rapper, since i’m not really into rap

        • anna

            well i was kind of going more for the view that reading the comments of a less-qualified internet community has more entertainment value for me than me trying to understand a more authoritative discussion of who’s the best rapper, since i’m not really into rap

        • PHC
        • PHC
        • PHC

            that’s not really accurate unless oversimplification is accurate. & in that case the exact same is true of biggie smalls.

        • PHC

            that’s not really accurate unless oversimplification is accurate. & in that case the exact same is true of biggie smalls.

        • Blake Butler

            jay z freestyle

        • Blake Butler

            jay z freestyle

        • Alec Niedenthal

            kanye west IMO

        • Alec Niedenthal

            kanye west IMO

        • Alec Niedenthal

            remember when he was all like “I’m going to let you finish”? That was hilarious. I loved that.

        • Alec Niedenthal

            remember when he was all like “I’m going to let you finish”? That was hilarious. I loved that.

        • Alec Niedenthal

            Midnight Marauders is probably a perfect album, I think.

        • Alec Niedenthal

            Midnight Marauders is probably a perfect album, I think.

        • Blake Butler

            agreed. so is beats rhymes and life

        • Blake Butler

            agreed. so is beats rhymes and life

        • Alec Niedenthal

            haven’t heard that one… “Push It Along” is probably the most epic rap song I’ve ever heard. Forget which album that’s on.

        • Nate

            A Tribe Called Quest is my vote.

        • Alec Niedenthal

            haven’t heard that one… “Push It Along” is probably the most epic rap song I’ve ever heard. Forget which album that’s on.

        • Nate

            A Tribe Called Quest is my vote.

        • davidpeak

            this whole thread has only reinforced for me how much i love young nas.

            or dizzee rascal’s first record. it’s original from beginning to end.

        • davidpeak

            this whole thread has only reinforced for me how much i love young nas.

            or dizzee rascal’s first record. it’s original from beginning to end.

        • ryan downey

            I cycle the cds in Speakerboxxx/The Love Below quite often nowadays. I don’t think 3k fell off. He just shapeshifted. I think I half-assedly paraphrased some of 3k’s lines in my thesis. I’m just sayin.

        • ryan downey

            I cycle the cds in Speakerboxxx/The Love Below quite often nowadays. I don’t think 3k fell off. He just shapeshifted. I think I half-assedly paraphrased some of 3k’s lines in my thesis. I’m just sayin.

        • Blake Butler

            comment # = 187

        • Blake Butler

            comment # = 187

        • stephen

            i would like to calmly, and w/o getting into any more internet fights or w/o being a douche or pretending i know everything, say that i like kanye.

        • stephen

            i would like to calmly, and w/o getting into any more internet fights or w/o being a douche or pretending i know everything, say that i like kanye.

        • PHC

            i’ll go a bit beyond the sniping i’ve been engaging in. i think the case for jay-z is pretty simple: he’s been doing it at a high level for longer than anyone in the history of rap. reasonable doubt, blue print, black album are all verygood to great albums, not to mention the commission mixtape. he uniformly kills it on his guest spots. his weaker albums all tend to have a few great tracks that stand above the mediocre mush. & based on yr comments re: nas earlier i think i see where we differ. i tend to judge on highs & you seem to dismiss based on lows. well, that’s fair enough & i can respect that but i think yr cheating yrself from a pretty great experience if you refuse to engage with Jay-Z As A Rapper on a meaningful level cuz you have a handful of bullshit freestyles recorded after he has mostly fallen off in yr back pocket.

            & the nas bit just reminded me of the jay z / nas beef in 2001, which was just like exciting/fun as hell & was sort of emblematic of a lot of the things i like about rap music, the genuine & the theatrical clashing or whatever.

            anywho i was obv flaming cuz anyone is qualified to talk about rap music regardless of exposure/race/expertise/familiarity with literature/online footprint for the reason that craig david mentioned a few posts down. but as far as jay z goes you really aren’t saying anything.

        • PHC

            i’ll go a bit beyond the sniping i’ve been engaging in. i think the case for jay-z is pretty simple: he’s been doing it at a high level for longer than anyone in the history of rap. reasonable doubt, blue print, black album are all verygood to great albums, not to mention the commission mixtape. he uniformly kills it on his guest spots. his weaker albums all tend to have a few great tracks that stand above the mediocre mush. & based on yr comments re: nas earlier i think i see where we differ. i tend to judge on highs & you seem to dismiss based on lows. well, that’s fair enough & i can respect that but i think yr cheating yrself from a pretty great experience if you refuse to engage with Jay-Z As A Rapper on a meaningful level cuz you have a handful of bullshit freestyles recorded after he has mostly fallen off in yr back pocket.

            & the nas bit just reminded me of the jay z / nas beef in 2001, which was just like exciting/fun as hell & was sort of emblematic of a lot of the things i like about rap music, the genuine & the theatrical clashing or whatever.

            anywho i was obv flaming cuz anyone is qualified to talk about rap music regardless of exposure/race/expertise/familiarity with literature/online footprint for the reason that craig david mentioned a few posts down. but as far as jay z goes you really aren’t saying anything.

        • Matthew Simmons

            Jay-Z is in the Illuminati. That’s what I like about him.

        • Matthew Simmons

            Jay-Z is in the Illuminati. That’s what I like about him.

        • ZZZIPP

            GREY ALBUM A SIGNIFICANT RAP ENTRY DRUG. ZZZZIPP HAS LISTENED TO IT IN EXCESS OF 100x TIMES. JAY-Z’S BUYING THE RIGHTS FROM APPLE SO THAT THE GREY ALBUM COULD BE RELEASED IS SIGNIFICANT.

        • ZZZIPP

            GREY ALBUM A SIGNIFICANT RAP ENTRY DRUG. ZZZZIPP HAS LISTENED TO IT IN EXCESS OF 100x TIMES. JAY-Z’S BUYING THE RIGHTS FROM APPLE SO THAT THE GREY ALBUM COULD BE RELEASED IS SIGNIFICANT.

        • ryan downey

            straight murderin.

        • Sean

            Dee Dee Ramone. And as for general rapping, I like JC Penny. I usually get my sweater there, too, and they will rap it right up for you.

        • ryan downey

            straight murderin.

        • Sean

            Dee Dee Ramone. And as for general rapping, I like JC Penny. I usually get my sweater there, too, and they will rap it right up for you.

        • Sean

            Hey, seriously, and not to jump someone’s train on this post, but I know little about music, less about rap. Could you people connect a few more albums to your rapper choices? I want to buy some of these artists, but could you be a bit more specific?

        • Gene Morgan

            Uffie forever.

        • Sean

            Hey, seriously, and not to jump someone’s train on this post, but I know little about music, less about rap. Could you people connect a few more albums to your rapper choices? I want to buy some of these artists, but could you be a bit more specific?

        • Gene Morgan

            Uffie forever.

        • stephen
        • stephen
        • stephen

            i think it’s safe to say many people would recommend “stankonia” to you, by outkast

        • stephen

            i think it’s safe to say many people would recommend “stankonia” to you, by outkast

        • Lincoln

            ready to die – notorious BIG
            supreme clientele – ghostface killah
            enter the wu-tang – the wu tang clan
            illmatic – Nas
            the cold vein – cannibal ox
            paid in full – eric b and rakim
            operation doomsday – MF Doom
            the blueprint – Jay Z
            hell hath no fury – clipse

        • Lincoln

            ready to die – notorious BIG
            supreme clientele – ghostface killah
            enter the wu-tang – the wu tang clan
            illmatic – Nas
            the cold vein – cannibal ox
            paid in full – eric b and rakim
            operation doomsday – MF Doom
            the blueprint – Jay Z
            hell hath no fury – clipse

        • Lincoln

            only built 4 cuban linx – Reakwon
            it takes a nation of millions… – public enemy
            the king – t.i.
            lifestyles of the poor and dangerous – big l
            octagonecologyst – dr. octagon
            donuts – j dilla

        • Lincoln

            only built 4 cuban linx – Reakwon
            it takes a nation of millions… – public enemy
            the king – t.i.
            lifestyles of the poor and dangerous – big l
            octagonecologyst – dr. octagon
            donuts – j dilla

        • scott mcclanahan

            Long live The Big Baby Jesus!

        • scott mcclanahan

            Long live The Big Baby Jesus!

        • stephen

            i would say every album by kanye: the college dropout (sped-up soul samples, lots of classic singles), late registration (strings, more classic singles), graduation (synthesizers, eclectic samples, classic singles), 808s & heartbreak (post-Radiohead breakup/mother died album, 808s, tribal drums, sad, emotional, eccentric, unusual singles)

        • anon

            The internet was created solely for this purpose.

            B-Real is the best rapper.

        • stephen

            i would say every album by kanye: the college dropout (sped-up soul samples, lots of classic singles), late registration (strings, more classic singles), graduation (synthesizers, eclectic samples, classic singles), 808s & heartbreak (post-Radiohead breakup/mother died album, 808s, tribal drums, sad, emotional, eccentric, unusual singles)

        • anon

            The internet was created solely for this purpose.

            B-Real is the best rapper.

        • davidpeak

            some that haven’t been mentioned on here:

            vaudeville villain – viktor vaughn
            critical beatdown – ultramagnetic mcs
            pete rock & cl smooth – mecca and the soul brother
            kool g rap & dj polo – road to the riches
            monsta island czars (M.I.C.) – escape from monsta island!
            the great adventures of slick rick – slick rick
            dizzee rascal – boy in da corner

        • davidpeak

            some that haven’t been mentioned on here:

            vaudeville villain – viktor vaughn
            critical beatdown – ultramagnetic mcs
            pete rock & cl smooth – mecca and the soul brother
            kool g rap & dj polo – road to the riches
            monsta island czars (M.I.C.) – escape from monsta island!
            the great adventures of slick rick – slick rick
            dizzee rascal – boy in da corner

        • davidpeak

            terminator X – terminator X and the valley of jeep beets
            ice cube – death certificate

        • davidpeak

            terminator X – terminator X and the valley of jeep beets
            ice cube – death certificate

        • stephen

            vaudeville villain is cool, i like that one

        • Amber

            Word.

        • stephen

            vaudeville villain is cool, i like that one

        • Amber

            Word.

        • anon

            On the real, though, a person’s choice of ‘best rapper’ is pretty much arbitrary. Certain choices are more fashionable than others, depending on your demographic. The NY-centric are going to pick Jay-Z/Nas/Biggie. The ‘real heads’ are going to pick someone less ‘mainstream’ like Big L or some shit. (For the ‘real heads,’ it’s still 96.) The people who like Southern shit that are 25+ are going to say Bun B or Scarface; those under 25 are going to say Lil Wayne or TI or Jeezy. I think a lot of people only say ‘Lil Wayne’ to troll. Sometimes people say Ice Cube. No self-conscious hip-hop listener will say Eminem. Whatever… This conversation is boring…

        • anon

            On the real, though, a person’s choice of ‘best rapper’ is pretty much arbitrary. Certain choices are more fashionable than others, depending on your demographic. The NY-centric are going to pick Jay-Z/Nas/Biggie. The ‘real heads’ are going to pick someone less ‘mainstream’ like Big L or some shit. (For the ‘real heads,’ it’s still 96.) The people who like Southern shit that are 25+ are going to say Bun B or Scarface; those under 25 are going to say Lil Wayne or TI or Jeezy. I think a lot of people only say ‘Lil Wayne’ to troll. Sometimes people say Ice Cube. No self-conscious hip-hop listener will say Eminem. Whatever… This conversation is boring…

        • anon

            No one has said Bizzy Bone.

        • anon

            No one has said Bizzy Bone.

        • Lincoln

            yeah that might be my actual favorite. I think i’d rate that, doomsday and king geedorah all above madvillainy, which is the normal pick.

        • Lincoln

            yeah that might be my actual favorite. I think i’d rate that, doomsday and king geedorah all above madvillainy, which is the normal pick.

        • stephen

            vv def gets overlooked sometimes

        • stephen

            vv def gets overlooked sometimes

        • stephen

            any1 want to start a new sub-thread on best weed rap song of all time?

        • stephen

            any1 want to start a new sub-thread on best weed rap song of all time?

        • stephen
        • stephen
        • stephen

            that danger doom is enjoyable too, not saying its better than these, just sayin

        • stephen

            that danger doom is enjoyable too, not saying its better than these, just sayin

        • Lincoln

            I already named it dawg! (hint, starts with a Krypt ends with a nite)

        • Lincoln

            I already named it dawg! (hint, starts with a Krypt ends with a nite)

        • Matthew Simmons

            It’s boring because it’s arbitrary?

        • Matthew Simmons

            It’s boring because it’s arbitrary?

        • Janey Smith

            Buddy Holly.

        • Janey Smith

            Buddy Holly.

        • kevin

            Supposedly 4 -5 years ago

        • kevin

            Supposedly 4 -5 years ago

        • kevin

            totally agree with this comment.
            I feel like Doseone should be mentioned more on this site..
            Wonder if he’s got any awesome writing projects going on…

        • kevin

            totally agree with this comment.
            I feel like Doseone should be mentioned more on this site..
            Wonder if he’s got any awesome writing projects going on…

        • kevin

            Reasonable Doubt was incredible: earnest and heartfelt. Everything after was pandering to party bullshit lifestyle and image.

        • kevin

            Reasonable Doubt was incredible: earnest and heartfelt. Everything after was pandering to party bullshit lifestyle and image.

        • kevin

            Holy Christ. I can’t believe nobody has mentioned Slug yet (short of that ‘Best Emo’ category above; doesn’t count.) Granted I won’t listen to any Atmosphere album beyond Overcast, but that and his entire solo career catalog from around that time is some of the best hip hop ever written. Plus he did some awesome shit on Deep Puddle Dynamics and Dynospectrum…

            Really can’t believe he hasn’t been mentioned… shame on you, literary rap listeners.

        • kevin

            Holy Christ. I can’t believe nobody has mentioned Slug yet (short of that ‘Best Emo’ category above; doesn’t count.) Granted I won’t listen to any Atmosphere album beyond Overcast, but that and his entire solo career catalog from around that time is some of the best hip hop ever written. Plus he did some awesome shit on Deep Puddle Dynamics and Dynospectrum…

            Really can’t believe he hasn’t been mentioned… shame on you, literary rap listeners.

        • scott mcclanahan

            Dirt McGirt

        • kevin

            31 year old white male here: don’t agree even closely with any of these.
            Would agree on ‘Emo’ but the category itself is so ridiculous I cannot nominally agree.
            Year is very, very, close… it’s a toss up for ’94, ’95 and ’96.

            Rakim has to be the farthest off of all of these picks. I was age 9 – 13 during his peak; hardly my formative years. I can’t imagine anyone younger than me (19 – 30, according to you) would even consider him. I certainly didn’t.

        • scott mcclanahan

            Dirt McGirt

        • kevin

            31 year old white male here: don’t agree even closely with any of these.
            Would agree on ‘Emo’ but the category itself is so ridiculous I cannot nominally agree.
            Year is very, very, close… it’s a toss up for ’94, ’95 and ’96.

            Rakim has to be the farthest off of all of these picks. I was age 9 – 13 during his peak; hardly my formative years. I can’t imagine anyone younger than me (19 – 30, according to you) would even consider him. I certainly didn’t.

        • MG

            Labor Days is one of the best albums I’ve ever heard, easy.

        • MG

            Labor Days is one of the best albums I’ve ever heard, easy.

        • MG

            Aesop Rock & Talib Kweli

            not the best, just who i like.

        • MG

            Aesop Rock & Talib Kweli

            not the best, just who i like.

        • MG
        • MG
        • Jhon Baker

            Jim Croce. Listen to his live album and I think you’ll agree – or am I thinking about the wrong kind of rap?

        • Jhon Baker

            Jim Croce. Listen to his live album and I think you’ll agree – or am I thinking about the wrong kind of rap?

        • magick mike

            playboy tre samples gil-scott on his latest mixtape, it’s sweet

        • magick mike

            playboy tre samples gil-scott on his latest mixtape, it’s sweet

        • magick mike

            1-i generally don’t even care who’s rapping as long as it’s screw choppin it

            2-TWISTA

            3-everybody on/associated with early triple six for have the most ridiculous and awesome rhymes imaginable

        • magick mike

            1-i generally don’t even care who’s rapping as long as it’s screw choppin it

            2-TWISTA

            3-everybody on/associated with early triple six for have the most ridiculous and awesome rhymes imaginable

        • JW Veldhoen

            Michael Ivey for the weirdness.

        • JW Veldhoen

            Michael Ivey for the weirdness.

        • Ken Baumann

            hahahahahahahah

        • Ken Baumann

            hahahahahahahah

        • ZZZZIPP

            THAT’S UNFAIR, AT ANY MOMENT THOSE GERMANS MIGHT HAVE TURNED ON HIM

        • ZZZZIPP

            THAT’S UNFAIR, AT ANY MOMENT THOSE GERMANS MIGHT HAVE TURNED ON HIM

        • gene
        • gene
        • Eric Beeny

            Doom, Del, Aesop, Rakim, Warcloud (Holocaust), GZA, Vast Aire…

        • gene

            kweli never met a simile he didn’t like.

        • Eric Beeny

            Doom, Del, Aesop, Rakim, Warcloud (Holocaust), GZA, Vast Aire…

        • gene

            kweli never met a simile he didn’t like.

        • gene

            as much as i’d say ra. and want to, i gotta admit dude got points off because it turned out he was lip-syncing on his last couple tours. why, ra, why?

        • gene

            as much as i’d say ra. and want to, i gotta admit dude got points off because it turned out he was lip-syncing on his last couple tours. why, ra, why?

        • gene

            stephen takes the fucking thing for dumbest comments ever. not white, grew up on nothing but hip-hop, used to battle MCs in high school hallways, grew up in the fucking hood, tagged, went into bboying, ran w/ homies who were zulu. zulu kingz, oldest bboy crew since ever. predates rap, period. NOV 12, 1973. motherfuckers are in the smithsonian. and the EMP. guess what that makes my opinion? same as everybody else’s. c’mon man really? so i can’t ask my boy conchance about robert coover? the fuck out of here.

        • gene

            stephen takes the fucking thing for dumbest comments ever. not white, grew up on nothing but hip-hop, used to battle MCs in high school hallways, grew up in the fucking hood, tagged, went into bboying, ran w/ homies who were zulu. zulu kingz, oldest bboy crew since ever. predates rap, period. NOV 12, 1973. motherfuckers are in the smithsonian. and the EMP. guess what that makes my opinion? same as everybody else’s. c’mon man really? so i can’t ask my boy conchance about robert coover? the fuck out of here.

        • phm

            I really like the Lucy Ford album by Atmosphere. I don’t listen to a whole lot of hip-hop. Mr. Lif is my favorite aside from that album by Atmosphere, especially I Phantom. “I was mad dip, butterfly colors and shit, dreads from the slave ship, bi-focals and wingtips…” It’s hip-hop at its best. Colorful storytelling at an appreciable pace. Of course I agree with the commenter who said this community is far from qualified to determine the best ever, and most of the hip hop lovers I know are really into The Diplomats.

        • phm

            I really like the Lucy Ford album by Atmosphere. I don’t listen to a whole lot of hip-hop. Mr. Lif is my favorite aside from that album by Atmosphere, especially I Phantom. “I was mad dip, butterfly colors and shit, dreads from the slave ship, bi-focals and wingtips…” It’s hip-hop at its best. Colorful storytelling at an appreciable pace. Of course I agree with the commenter who said this community is far from qualified to determine the best ever, and most of the hip hop lovers I know are really into The Diplomats.

        • phm

            Shut up asshole.

        • phm

            Shut up asshole.

        • reynard

            eazy’s gonna kill all of you when you die

        • reynard

            eazy’s gonna kill all of you when you die

        • gene

            start another shitty template based lit blog

        • gene

            start another shitty template based lit blog

        • ce.

            woah, shit. rap is some serious business around here. 241 comments in the span of a day.

        • ce.

            woah, shit. rap is some serious business around here. 241 comments in the span of a day.

        • anon

            Deep Puddle is wack.

        • anon

            Deep Puddle is wack.

        • david e

            the 85 Bears, Wilbur in particular

            Also like Paperboy – “Ditty” is tight

            at one point I thought Kris Kross would make the cut

        • david e

            the 85 Bears, Wilbur in particular

            Also like Paperboy – “Ditty” is tight

            at one point I thought Kris Kross would make the cut

        • Eric Beeny
        • Eric Beeny
        • magick mike

            the absence of anywhere to continue ‘shitstorm alberta’ has lead to displacement

        • magick mike

            the absence of anywhere to continue ‘shitstorm alberta’ has lead to displacement

        • phm

            Guess you’re confused about something.

        • phm

            Guess you’re confused about something.

        • phm

            Wrinkly white people wearing hoodies, listening to 2 Live Crew, and smoking weed for the first time in 24 years.

        • phm

            Wrinkly white people wearing hoodies, listening to 2 Live Crew, and smoking weed for the first time in 24 years.

        • phm

            Another rap song I really loved was “100 Bars and Running” or something by The Game. That shit went hard yo.

        • phm

            Another rap song I really loved was “100 Bars and Running” or something by The Game. That shit went hard yo.

        • phm
        • phm
        • LZA
        • LZA
        • kevin

            Come on dude, “The Candle”? Seriously? Sleeping…

        • kevin

            Come on dude, “The Candle”? Seriously? Sleeping…

        • LK

            Talib Kweli (who I like and admire and all) always seemed to me like he was trying a bit too hard to impress his effortless friend, Mos Def.

        • LK

            Talib Kweli (who I like and admire and all) always seemed to me like he was trying a bit too hard to impress his effortless friend, Mos Def.

        • LK

            I vote for Low-End Theory. With Ron Carter on the bass . . .

        • LK

            I vote for Low-End Theory. With Ron Carter on the bass . . .

        • LK

            And the winner is . . . loddy doddy, the man who likes to party:

            SLICK RICK

        • LK

            And the winner is . . . loddy doddy, the man who likes to party:

            SLICK RICK

        • dave e

            Anyone else like Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy? Their lyrics were a bit on the nose but some pretty nasty/funny stuff.

            I honestly don’t know who my favorite rapper is. Song wise, I loved Nuthing But a G Thang and How I could Just Kill a Man.

        • dave e

            Anyone else like Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy? Their lyrics were a bit on the nose but some pretty nasty/funny stuff.

            I honestly don’t know who my favorite rapper is. Song wise, I loved Nuthing But a G Thang and How I could Just Kill a Man.

        • Craig Davis

            Ah, but the question is not who your favorite is, its who’s the best.

            My favorite MC is, was and always will be Trugoy. But that doesn’t make him the best. Being Rakim would make him the best. Ali isn’t my favorite boxer, either, bu

        • Craig Davis

            Ah, but the question is not who your favorite is, its who’s the best.

            My favorite MC is, was and always will be Trugoy. But that doesn’t make him the best. Being Rakim would make him the best. Ali isn’t my favorite boxer, either, bu

        • Craig Davis

            but he remade the sport in his own image. I’m a Frazier/Tyson/Dempsey man, but I understand that Ali was a more important, and yes, better boxer.

            Ditto every other MC vs. Rakim. I’d rather listen to the Dove’s “sicker than” verse on Stakes is High than anything Rakim ever touched, but it wouldn’t have existed without Paid in Full.

        • Craig Davis

            but he remade the sport in his own image. I’m a Frazier/Tyson/Dempsey man, but I understand that Ali was a more important, and yes, better boxer.

            Ditto every other MC vs. Rakim. I’d rather listen to the Dove’s “sicker than” verse on Stakes is High than anything Rakim ever touched, but it wouldn’t have existed without Paid in Full.

        • mark
        • mark
        • stephen

            alberto, just for the historical record.

        • stephen

            alberto, just for the historical record.

        • stephen
        • stephen
        • stephen

            sorry to offend you, gene. i apologized above for my being a douche and various other things. i was a fuckhead, and i apologize. i hope you are well, gene, and respect for all your work.

        • stephen

            sorry to offend you, gene. i apologized above for my being a douche and various other things. i was a fuckhead, and i apologize. i hope you are well, gene, and respect for all your work.

        • stephen

            i have a strong feeling that if we met in real life, you would not hate me, even if you didn’t like me.

        • stephen

            i have a strong feeling that if we met in real life, you would not hate me, even if you didn’t like me.

        • stephen

            i will “shut the fuck up” in the future, seriously.

        • stephen

            i will “shut the fuck up” in the future, seriously.

        • stephen
        • stephen
        • Eric Anderson

            KRS-One

        • Eric Anderson

            KRS-One

        • creeper

            Biggie yall.

            at least according to OP’s criteria.
            fun: get all that backpacker shit outa hur.
            lyrics: get all that southern shit out of here. (scarface can stay. outkast can stay. lil wayne can stay.)
            beats: Rakim, Slick Rick, “sugar hill gang” et al. must go.
            power: Mos Def, Talib Kwali, KRS-ONE et al. must go.
            and with everyone left over who is the greatest? not the “best”, but the Greatest?
            (GZA/Ghostface and Dizzee Rascal seem like positive “curveballs” imo.)

            but come on yall.

            Biggie.

        • creeper

            Biggie yall.

            at least according to OP’s criteria.
            fun: get all that backpacker shit outa hur.
            lyrics: get all that southern shit out of here. (scarface can stay. outkast can stay. lil wayne can stay.)
            beats: Rakim, Slick Rick, “sugar hill gang” et al. must go.
            power: Mos Def, Talib Kwali, KRS-ONE et al. must go.
            and with everyone left over who is the greatest? not the “best”, but the Greatest?
            (GZA/Ghostface and Dizzee Rascal seem like positive “curveballs” imo.)

            but come on yall.

            Biggie.

        • gavin pate

            Man, no love for Goodie Mob’s Soul Food? Holds up every single time. As for the best, well, gotta go Biggie. I’ll take those 1st seven tracks on Ready To Die up against just about anything.

        • gavin pate

            Man, no love for Goodie Mob’s Soul Food? Holds up every single time. As for the best, well, gotta go Biggie. I’ll take those 1st seven tracks on Ready To Die up against just about anything.

        • Schylur Prinz

            Boots from the Coup. Hands down. The best flow, the best lyrical content, the best voice and the most convincing extrapolation of west-coast g. funk after Mac Dre (get stupid, y’all)

        • Schylur Prinz

            Boots from the Coup. Hands down. The best flow, the best lyrical content, the best voice and the most convincing extrapolation of west-coast g. funk after Mac Dre (get stupid, y’all)

        • stephen
        • stephen
        • stephen

            with all due respect, and knowledge of having been a douche yesterday, not sure how lil wayne or tupac is backpacker? i would give you kanye, but lil wayne seems to be pretty mainstream/self-professed “gangster” and tupac seems pretty mainstream/self-professed “thug.” just sayin’

        • stephen

            with all due respect, and knowledge of having been a douche yesterday, not sure how lil wayne or tupac is backpacker? i would give you kanye, but lil wayne seems to be pretty mainstream/self-professed “gangster” and tupac seems pretty mainstream/self-professed “thug.” just sayin’

        • stephen

            my answer, while very typical of a white guy of my general “stereotype,” is based on the passion, variety, lyrics, power, influence of tupac’s body of work and videos, and based on lil wayne’s almost unbelievable wit, passion, flow, humor, tenacity, ambition, etc. peace, “!”

        • stephen

            my answer, while very typical of a white guy of my general “stereotype,” is based on the passion, variety, lyrics, power, influence of tupac’s body of work and videos, and based on lil wayne’s almost unbelievable wit, passion, flow, humor, tenacity, ambition, etc. peace, “!”

        • magick mike

            ‘my bad’

            i probably should have looked it up (and this is not a sarcastic sentiment, i actually probably should have)

        • magick mike

            ‘my bad’

            i probably should have looked it up (and this is not a sarcastic sentiment, i actually probably should have)

        • stephen
        • stephen
        • stephen
        • stephen
        • stephen

            as far as the lack of content not related to flow, money, what he’s doing at that moment, i would say, at the risk of being “annoying,” that he’s being post-modern. *ducks*

        • stephen

            as far as the lack of content not related to flow, money, what he’s doing at that moment, i would say, at the risk of being “annoying,” that he’s being post-modern. *ducks*

        • stephen
        • stephen
        • stephen

            was a fuckhead in this thread, see apologies elsewhere

        • stephen

            was a fuckhead in this thread, see apologies elsewhere

        • topher

            You realize that rappers don’t come up with the beats, right?

            Also: Jay-z is a damned good lyricist. It’s okay to like things that are popular.

            My vote would probably go to BIG or Rakim or Chuck D or Kool Keith or Ghost.

        • topher

            You realize that rappers don’t come up with the beats, right?

            Also: Jay-z is a damned good lyricist. It’s okay to like things that are popular.

            My vote would probably go to BIG or Rakim or Chuck D or Kool Keith or Ghost.

        • Adam

            These days I’ll take Jay Electronica over anyone…”I’m feeling homeland security breach-y.”

        • Adam

            These days I’ll take Jay Electronica over anyone…”I’m feeling homeland security breach-y.”

        • Mark C

            I’m seconding alex here.

        • Mark C

            I’m seconding alex here.

        • stephen

            @topher “You realize that rappers don’t come up with the beats, right?”

            This means that rappers have to become friends with other people who will make the beats, and then there is a collaboration, either together in the studio, like a fun, creative party, or long-distance, which means the two are “together” in a sense, even though they’re “not.” This is fun and builds community. Seems like a wonderful thing, “topher.”

        • stephen

            @topher “You realize that rappers don’t come up with the beats, right?”

            This means that rappers have to become friends with other people who will make the beats, and then there is a collaboration, either together in the studio, like a fun, creative party, or long-distance, which means the two are “together” in a sense, even though they’re “not.” This is fun and builds community. Seems like a wonderful thing, “topher.”