Mean Monday: Tao Lin is not a ‘good guy’
My ball skin wears thinner every time I hear/read the words ‘Tao Lin’. Statements like ‘Tao Lin is the King of Bloggers’, ‘I love Tao Lin’, ‘Tao Lin is a great guy’, and ‘Tao Lin saved my life’ are thrown around free and excessive. I don’t get it. Tao Lin is not a ‘good guy’ and he’s not necessarily a ‘bad guy’.
He’s a self-interested writer type of guy.
Most of Tao Lin’s persona attributes are misconstrued (specifically the guise of neutrality) by his readership of emotionally distraught teenage girls.
Leave a comment on Tao Lin’s blog; he’ll respond back with a very unimaginative ‘I am glad’ or ‘thank you for’ and end with restating your comment.
Reader: ‘Tao Lin your poetry saved my life’
Tao Lin: ‘Reader I am glad my poetry saved your life’
Send Tao Lin an email describing how “EEE EEE EEE” helped you survive being committed to a mental hospital for self-mutilation because you, as a human being, could not cope with the torture and abuse endured at home; he’ll respond with the same unimaginative reply of ‘I am glad’ or ‘thank you’ or may not reply at all.
Occasionally, he will freely give away books to people expressing desire to read a ‘Tao Lin book’ they may not be able to afford. Nothing altruistic exists in his actions.
He does not often post comments on other blogs. When he does, the comments will be centered around him completely dismissing the subject of the blog post. Don’t be surprised if he asks you what font size is used on that post about how your wife had a miscarriage.
Shock announcement: TAO LIN DOES NOT CARE ABOUT YOU.
Tao Lin is fond of citing his indifference, neutrality and world view. This is all part of his gimmick. Tao Lin is not indifferent or neutral and the only world view I can perceive is a world view of Tao Lin being famous.
Post a comment on Tao’s blog indicating you’re a professor wanting to teach his books to this year’s creative writing students; Tao Lin will interact and become very interested in your goals.
Email Tao letting him know you are a semi-famous person who enjoys his work; he’ll interact with you and blog about it.
Tao has spent monolithic efforts to promote his work and aesthetic. More hours have been spent trying to get linked by Gawker than replying to a single email from a teenage girl reaching out while feeling very alone and suicidal because her alcoholic step-father beats her.
Tao Lin is not indifferent.
A lizard is indifferent. It exists, bathes in the sun, eats, sleeps, and reproduces. That is indifference. What it doesn’t do is fret over being famous, promote its work with every breath and action, and desperately strive toward a very specific style/persona.
Tao Lin is far from indifferent. Don’t let him fool you. Don’t excuse what he does because he seems meek. He is quite aware of his actions.
I do not blame the emotionally damaged teenagers for confusing this concept. The rest of you are shameful.
Tags: Indifference, Tao Lin
Fight!
Fight!
“My ball skin wears thinner every time I hear/read the words ‘Tao Lin’.”
After this post, my ball skin is like rice paper.
“My ball skin wears thinner every time I hear/read the words ‘Tao Lin’.”
After this post, my ball skin is like rice paper.
How come jereme is not listed as a contributor?
I think Lin is interesting as a subject to explore as a kind of personality type. I think a lot of the protagonism toward Lin simply exists as a counter to a lot of the antagonism that somehow happens. I suspect Lin is behind a lot of the anonymous ‘shit-talking’ that goes on, it only strengthens happy-talking rebuttals, then more dialogue, and the thing feeds itself.
With Lin, I see things happening on a different level other than, ‘he is just selfish and I wouldn’t want to actually be friends with him’ It’s more like he is in a hamster bubble, rolling around the internet, letting people raise their eyebrows as he rolls by, occasionally shitting some words out that resonate not necessarily because they are interesting, but simply because they came from the mysterious hamster ball of the internet everyone is talking about.
How come jereme is not listed as a contributor?
I think Lin is interesting as a subject to explore as a kind of personality type. I think a lot of the protagonism toward Lin simply exists as a counter to a lot of the antagonism that somehow happens. I suspect Lin is behind a lot of the anonymous ‘shit-talking’ that goes on, it only strengthens happy-talking rebuttals, then more dialogue, and the thing feeds itself.
With Lin, I see things happening on a different level other than, ‘he is just selfish and I wouldn’t want to actually be friends with him’ It’s more like he is in a hamster bubble, rolling around the internet, letting people raise their eyebrows as he rolls by, occasionally shitting some words out that resonate not necessarily because they are interesting, but simply because they came from the mysterious hamster ball of the internet everyone is talking about.
gian,
there should be 20 iterations of ‘tao lin’ in the post.
that was by design.
darby,
because i do not have boobs and blake does not value me as a human being.
i don’t know. i didn’t think it was a big deal i wasn’t listed there..
i like your analogy.
gian,
there should be 20 iterations of ‘tao lin’ in the post.
that was by design.
darby,
because i do not have boobs and blake does not value me as a human being.
i don’t know. i didn’t think it was a big deal i wasn’t listed there..
i like your analogy.
Everything is about attention gathering.
Everything is about attention gathering.
tao lin is the asian pol pot.
tao lin is the asian pol pot.
“It’s more like he is in a hamster bubble, rolling around the internet, letting people raise their eyebrows as he rolls by, occasionally shitting some words out that resonate not necessarily because they are interesting, but simply because they came from the mysterious hamster ball of the internet everyone is talking about.”
good assessment darby, i like that alot.
“It’s more like he is in a hamster bubble, rolling around the internet, letting people raise their eyebrows as he rolls by, occasionally shitting some words out that resonate not necessarily because they are interesting, but simply because they came from the mysterious hamster ball of the internet everyone is talking about.”
good assessment darby, i like that alot.
durr. adding. :)))
durr. adding. :)))
@Brad Green
it doesn’t have to be, i don’t think. or, at least, it shouldn’t.
i think an outcome of the crappy economy and men and women coming back from Iraq & Afghanistan is that writing will actually have to be about something substantial. emotionally, historically, whatever. it might take a couple years, but i think we’ll get there.
that’s a good thing.
not that there’s anything wrong with self-promotion in and of itself. i just question the ironic middle school posturing that seems to dominate indie lit right now. norman mailer was one of the biggest goddamn self-promoters in the lit world in his time. he still wrote the naked and the dead when he was like 23 or so.
i dunno. i just worry about our generation of writers forsaking more meaty, less attention-grabbing work for bubble gum bull shit.
@Brad Green
it doesn’t have to be, i don’t think. or, at least, it shouldn’t.
i think an outcome of the crappy economy and men and women coming back from Iraq & Afghanistan is that writing will actually have to be about something substantial. emotionally, historically, whatever. it might take a couple years, but i think we’ll get there.
that’s a good thing.
not that there’s anything wrong with self-promotion in and of itself. i just question the ironic middle school posturing that seems to dominate indie lit right now. norman mailer was one of the biggest goddamn self-promoters in the lit world in his time. he still wrote the naked and the dead when he was like 23 or so.
i dunno. i just worry about our generation of writers forsaking more meaty, less attention-grabbing work for bubble gum bull shit.
my dog picked some bubble gum off the street today and chewed till we took it away from her. i still think she has potential tho.
my dog picked some bubble gum off the street today and chewed till we took it away from her. i still think she has potential tho.
” i just question the ironic middle school posturing that seems to dominate indie lit right now.”
“dominate,” no…it’s just what you choose to pay attention to…
” i just question the ironic middle school posturing that seems to dominate indie lit right now.”
“dominate,” no…it’s just what you choose to pay attention to…
@Jackie Corley
It’s a function of the culture we’re in, I think. One loses the historical relevance when one becomes solipsistic, which categorizes some of the Indie fiction well. One abandons the emotional current of a narrative in favor of wild, fast, and random events because an emotional undertow takes some time to swirl into strength. That’s hard to do when the world is shutter fast. Hard to do, but not impossible.
I dunno either. I had to spit the grass stalk out of my mouth to say solipsistic and after that I wondered why I did it. I think it turned my tongue black. I don’t mind the posturing as much (hell, I shot spit balls too), but I would like to read words that attempt to tug more deeply on my dark inside parts, the long woe and the splashing laugh. I don’t really get that with writer’s like Tao Lin.
I understand the disconnect and the apparent ridiculousness of life. And the lonely sadness. I get that. I’d just like to see the words strive to grow. He’s a model of self-promotion. The writer of this post is self-promoting. I am self-promoting. It’s a fact of this life.
I just want to read richer fiction and I want it to make sense. I’m all for casting out the bubble gum.
@Jackie Corley
It’s a function of the culture we’re in, I think. One loses the historical relevance when one becomes solipsistic, which categorizes some of the Indie fiction well. One abandons the emotional current of a narrative in favor of wild, fast, and random events because an emotional undertow takes some time to swirl into strength. That’s hard to do when the world is shutter fast. Hard to do, but not impossible.
I dunno either. I had to spit the grass stalk out of my mouth to say solipsistic and after that I wondered why I did it. I think it turned my tongue black. I don’t mind the posturing as much (hell, I shot spit balls too), but I would like to read words that attempt to tug more deeply on my dark inside parts, the long woe and the splashing laugh. I don’t really get that with writer’s like Tao Lin.
I understand the disconnect and the apparent ridiculousness of life. And the lonely sadness. I get that. I’d just like to see the words strive to grow. He’s a model of self-promotion. The writer of this post is self-promoting. I am self-promoting. It’s a fact of this life.
I just want to read richer fiction and I want it to make sense. I’m all for casting out the bubble gum.
‘tao lin’ is an abstraction that people can argue against or for, in order to establish their own ideals. ‘tao lin’ is like ‘jesus’ in this way.
‘tao lin’ is an abstraction that people can argue against or for, in order to establish their own ideals. ‘tao lin’ is like ‘jesus’ in this way.
i like bubblegum and think that meat should be grown in petri dishes, but i’ll eat it from almost anywhere.
but ok here is my problem: who said that sense and depth of content were synonymous? this is not about tao lin, who has done things i like and things that i dislike. this is about an attitude that says meat and bubblegum can be separated out and that richness is a virtue above poverty. i want lean literature and weird and fun literature and nothing that is fat and sumptuous. i want it to hurt the parts of me that make sense and bring them along eventually if i’m up for it. i could go to the old standby deleuze article on minor literature and talk about how kafka and beckett are not rich and are not sensible. or turn to something like francis ponge’s soap as a literature of poverty.
ok, rich polyvocal work is not bad. there are terrific works of maximalism, i know. also there are terrific works that exist in the real and deal with ‘issues’. but this thread started to get weird and harsh and seems dangerously close to equating emotional significance to realism or grittiness or certain kinds of plots.
this is getting stupid and losing steam. i hope it made a little sense.
i like bubblegum and think that meat should be grown in petri dishes, but i’ll eat it from almost anywhere.
but ok here is my problem: who said that sense and depth of content were synonymous? this is not about tao lin, who has done things i like and things that i dislike. this is about an attitude that says meat and bubblegum can be separated out and that richness is a virtue above poverty. i want lean literature and weird and fun literature and nothing that is fat and sumptuous. i want it to hurt the parts of me that make sense and bring them along eventually if i’m up for it. i could go to the old standby deleuze article on minor literature and talk about how kafka and beckett are not rich and are not sensible. or turn to something like francis ponge’s soap as a literature of poverty.
ok, rich polyvocal work is not bad. there are terrific works of maximalism, i know. also there are terrific works that exist in the real and deal with ‘issues’. but this thread started to get weird and harsh and seems dangerously close to equating emotional significance to realism or grittiness or certain kinds of plots.
this is getting stupid and losing steam. i hope it made a little sense.
i like the way you talk ben
i like the way you talk ben
i only like reading literature that deals with ‘neo-romanian, gender subversive polysemous, non mimetic heideggarian ontological transgender violence through a lens of normative fictive renderings in a post 9/11 world’
i only like reading literature that deals with ‘neo-romanian, gender subversive polysemous, non mimetic heideggarian ontological transgender violence through a lens of normative fictive renderings in a post 9/11 world’
i like the way you talk sam
i like the way you talk sam
Jereme, I would like to have your babies.
[But we have to keep them far far away from Blake.]
i like the way you talk blake
Jereme, I would like to have your babies.
[But we have to keep them far far away from Blake.]
i like the way you talk blake
tao lin = jesus.
holy fuck jimmy, you’re too smart to say something that stupid.
tao lin = jesus.
holy fuck jimmy, you’re too smart to say something that stupid.
i am speechless
you are amazing
i am speechless
you are amazing
sorry barry, i’m a little off today.
tao lin is not jesus, sorry.
sorry barry, i’m a little off today.
tao lin is not jesus, sorry.
I’m with Jackie and Brad on this one, but I also agree with John Sakkis’s comment about what we’re paying attention to. I’ve tried, recently, to just focus on the lit I’m really enjoying, and to help promote however I can.
Anyway, it’s nice to see Jackie commenting here (is this the first time?), and I think it’s unfortunate that her comment was followed immediately by some line that I’m having a hard time believing. Did the dog really do that?
Brad, I’m glad to see your words here, too.
I’m with Jackie and Brad on this one, but I also agree with John Sakkis’s comment about what we’re paying attention to. I’ve tried, recently, to just focus on the lit I’m really enjoying, and to help promote however I can.
Anyway, it’s nice to see Jackie commenting here (is this the first time?), and I think it’s unfortunate that her comment was followed immediately by some line that I’m having a hard time believing. Did the dog really do that?
Brad, I’m glad to see your words here, too.
now thats humility jimmy. you are much like buddha in that way.
“You can spot the bad critic when he starts by discussing the poet and not the poem.”–Ezra Pound, from “ABC of Reading.”
now thats humility jimmy. you are much like buddha in that way.
“You can spot the bad critic when he starts by discussing the poet and not the poem.”–Ezra Pound, from “ABC of Reading.”
you can tell the bad critic when he starts saying things
you can tell the bad critic when he starts saying things
you can tell the lunsdmitsim by its bracknarar
you can tell the lunsdmitsim by its bracknarar
what difference does it make
what difference does it make
“seems dangerously close to equating emotional significance to realism or grittiness or certain kinds of plots. ”
I’d be very interested to read a work that had emotional resonance and is not based, in some measure, on the real. Who would I look to for that?
I’m not arguing at you; hopefully I’m discussing with you. I’ve much to learn, much to unlearn.
Let’s talk about Sam Pink. His work is quite wild and unreal. At least I think so. But as I read through Yum Yum i can’t Wait to Die, the text repeatedly discoursed along an emotional vein. It communicated through situation, imagery…etc. Here, let me open the book. On page 36, there’s a section about a stain. The narrator cuts out the stain and takes it to a park, discusses with other “parents” about how hard it was for the stain to adjust. The stain came home crying every day. This is deeply grounded in the real despite the craziness of the situation. The emotional significance is evoked from basic, mundane realism. How can you have it any other way?
Sense is arrived at through particular arrangements. If you mess with that arrangement too much, you have a schizophrenic diatribe that means nothing to any one else. Too much of Indie fiction tends toward this, I think.
My whole point was that I’d like to see this sort of fiction branch out past loneliness and disconnects to engage the full body of emotion, to move toward the realm of great literature. I don’t think you can without participating in the real. I’d love to read a Tao Lin work that spreads its tendrils into other chambers of the heart.
I’m not bashing anyone. Hell, all you run journals and I’d like to publish a little more someday. I like lean literature and I like frothy, rich works as well. But the common factor amongst all the works that I’ve enjoyed has been a sense emotional significance.
“seems dangerously close to equating emotional significance to realism or grittiness or certain kinds of plots. ”
I’d be very interested to read a work that had emotional resonance and is not based, in some measure, on the real. Who would I look to for that?
I’m not arguing at you; hopefully I’m discussing with you. I’ve much to learn, much to unlearn.
Let’s talk about Sam Pink. His work is quite wild and unreal. At least I think so. But as I read through Yum Yum i can’t Wait to Die, the text repeatedly discoursed along an emotional vein. It communicated through situation, imagery…etc. Here, let me open the book. On page 36, there’s a section about a stain. The narrator cuts out the stain and takes it to a park, discusses with other “parents” about how hard it was for the stain to adjust. The stain came home crying every day. This is deeply grounded in the real despite the craziness of the situation. The emotional significance is evoked from basic, mundane realism. How can you have it any other way?
Sense is arrived at through particular arrangements. If you mess with that arrangement too much, you have a schizophrenic diatribe that means nothing to any one else. Too much of Indie fiction tends toward this, I think.
My whole point was that I’d like to see this sort of fiction branch out past loneliness and disconnects to engage the full body of emotion, to move toward the realm of great literature. I don’t think you can without participating in the real. I’d love to read a Tao Lin work that spreads its tendrils into other chambers of the heart.
I’m not bashing anyone. Hell, all you run journals and I’d like to publish a little more someday. I like lean literature and I like frothy, rich works as well. But the common factor amongst all the works that I’ve enjoyed has been a sense emotional significance.
brad green is my friend
brad green is my friend
brad
even if you were bashing, i (hope) it would not have an effect on your publishing in the futer or tnoight or tomrorow or whatever
i am enjoying readn this convesation
brad
even if you were bashing, i (hope) it would not have an effect on your publishing in the futer or tnoight or tomrorow or whatever
i am enjoying readn this convesation
excuse me
(i hope)
or something
wrods
excuse me
(i hope)
or something
wrods
The biggest impediment to me publishing more is my tendency to write crap. Also, I’m pretty sure I suck at the reach-arounds.
The biggest impediment to me publishing more is my tendency to write crap. Also, I’m pretty sure I suck at the reach-arounds.
i am sorry if i took what you were saying the wrong way, but your first comment and some early comments on this thread seemed to suggest a tendency to prefer literary realism to emotional realism.
i agree that emotional resonance is vital to fiction. i guess i think also that words like ‘rich’ and ‘meaty’ send these alarms off in me that say someone is a social realist and wants to ‘learn something about the world/other cultures’ through conventionally ‘beautiful’ sentences.
i think the work i really admire, like the stuff that 3rd bed used to put out or donald barthelme’s fiction often strikes me as ‘attention grabbing’ and semi-random, but the emotion still seems to be there. and the language is really remarkable and often unexpected, which is exciting too.
perhaps though the question that is actually on the line has more to do with what emotions are expressed. people here seem bored by loneliness, solipsism, and the use of the absurd to express that sense of disconnection. There is a sense that detachment and irony are juvenile and passe, and i guess they can come off that way. i happen to think that a lot of the stuff that gets published is not so much meaty as overweight and also (and this is a totally different topic that will likely get me into hot water because the thought isn’t fully formulated) i think that popular narrative is no longer the proper domain of literature and instead belongs to film/video. this has to do with the history of popular narrative always becoming proper to the technology that most readily and easily can distribute it. Which means to me, the place of literature is to look for ways of providing emotional experiences and excitements and pleasures other than the traditional popular narrative. maybe that is a poor thesis.
i do not know. but my point is i guess this whole weird side of my thinking about the project of fiction got triggered by some of the comments above, and i am sorry if i didn’t read them generously enough.
i am sorry if i took what you were saying the wrong way, but your first comment and some early comments on this thread seemed to suggest a tendency to prefer literary realism to emotional realism.
i agree that emotional resonance is vital to fiction. i guess i think also that words like ‘rich’ and ‘meaty’ send these alarms off in me that say someone is a social realist and wants to ‘learn something about the world/other cultures’ through conventionally ‘beautiful’ sentences.
i think the work i really admire, like the stuff that 3rd bed used to put out or donald barthelme’s fiction often strikes me as ‘attention grabbing’ and semi-random, but the emotion still seems to be there. and the language is really remarkable and often unexpected, which is exciting too.
perhaps though the question that is actually on the line has more to do with what emotions are expressed. people here seem bored by loneliness, solipsism, and the use of the absurd to express that sense of disconnection. There is a sense that detachment and irony are juvenile and passe, and i guess they can come off that way. i happen to think that a lot of the stuff that gets published is not so much meaty as overweight and also (and this is a totally different topic that will likely get me into hot water because the thought isn’t fully formulated) i think that popular narrative is no longer the proper domain of literature and instead belongs to film/video. this has to do with the history of popular narrative always becoming proper to the technology that most readily and easily can distribute it. Which means to me, the place of literature is to look for ways of providing emotional experiences and excitements and pleasures other than the traditional popular narrative. maybe that is a poor thesis.
i do not know. but my point is i guess this whole weird side of my thinking about the project of fiction got triggered by some of the comments above, and i am sorry if i didn’t read them generously enough.
my favorite thing by tao lin was a thing called I am “I don’t know what I am” and you are afraid of me and so am I. I don’t know if it’s online somewhere. It was a long time ago. I thought there was real anger coming out in that piece. It’s funny because it gets nonsensical, but it’s all driven angry, fuck the world and everything in it, Sam Pinkish.
i miss storytelling
my favorite thing by tao lin was a thing called I am “I don’t know what I am” and you are afraid of me and so am I. I don’t know if it’s online somewhere. It was a long time ago. I thought there was real anger coming out in that piece. It’s funny because it gets nonsensical, but it’s all driven angry, fuck the world and everything in it, Sam Pinkish.
i miss storytelling
i think people get sam wrong.
he loves the world. he is just convinced it doesnt love him
i think people get sam wrong.
he loves the world. he is just convinced it doesnt love him
i am cutting of my fingers
i am cutting of my fingers
i didn’t mean it was sam pinkish that way, contentwise, just the style of the piece.
i didn’t mean it was sam pinkish that way, contentwise, just the style of the piece.
or maybe it was pinkish contentwise, just not intentwise.
or maybe it was pinkish contentwise, just not intentwise.
Here’s a line from it: Right now I cut my face with a molar that I extracted from my own mouth with a nail clipper and I think it”s infecting so come decapitate me and I’ll vomit on your face
It’s mostly outward aggression, and I think Sam’s stuff is more inward.
Here’s a line from it: Right now I cut my face with a molar that I extracted from my own mouth with a nail clipper and I think it”s infecting so come decapitate me and I’ll vomit on your face
It’s mostly outward aggression, and I think Sam’s stuff is more inward.
What’s a conventionally beautiful sentence?
I like a lyrical tone. I like metaphor and imagery. The complexity of a state can be rendered much more succinctly via imagery than concrete sentences, I think. This is the part of Tao Lin’s style (and his imitators) that annoys me. It’s a simple matter of taste there, I think. Rich and meaty do tend to imply a thicker sort of sentence, yes, but that’s not a condemnation of the spare.
Hemingway had beautiful sentences, rich in their scarcity. Faulkner had beautiful sentences for different reasons. William Gass has absolutely phenomenal sentences. Kathy Acker rocked the typography before the period. They are all different from each other. I think the important thing is that the sentence strive for beauty. Period.
Are you talking about the marginalization of literature? Literature being deep works that strive toward art. My whole being lurches into a frantic agreement with you. Modern and popular works of literature, by and large, are pale imitations of the screen. Complexity is stripped from the narrative; plots shy from the open-ended. This is the simple dumbing down of our county and language. The strongest Hemingway or Carver prose communicates more than the simple words convey. One doesn’t get this with popular fiction. The words only mean exactly what they say.
I know I’m no longer responding to your point. Sorry – my rant kicked on. It’s good and valid talk, this.
@darby – that Sam Pink sentence you quoted is where my interest begins to wane in his texts. Perhaps it’s just my preference for loss opposed to anger. I’d love to read Sam Pink write about love without the violence. In his play where the two people hold the steak knives to each other’s throat…that was spectacular. It was also subdued compared to molars and vomit. Maybe I just like my rage mitigated a bit. My Dad never let us yell in the house.
It’s all his fault.
What’s a conventionally beautiful sentence?
I like a lyrical tone. I like metaphor and imagery. The complexity of a state can be rendered much more succinctly via imagery than concrete sentences, I think. This is the part of Tao Lin’s style (and his imitators) that annoys me. It’s a simple matter of taste there, I think. Rich and meaty do tend to imply a thicker sort of sentence, yes, but that’s not a condemnation of the spare.
Hemingway had beautiful sentences, rich in their scarcity. Faulkner had beautiful sentences for different reasons. William Gass has absolutely phenomenal sentences. Kathy Acker rocked the typography before the period. They are all different from each other. I think the important thing is that the sentence strive for beauty. Period.
Are you talking about the marginalization of literature? Literature being deep works that strive toward art. My whole being lurches into a frantic agreement with you. Modern and popular works of literature, by and large, are pale imitations of the screen. Complexity is stripped from the narrative; plots shy from the open-ended. This is the simple dumbing down of our county and language. The strongest Hemingway or Carver prose communicates more than the simple words convey. One doesn’t get this with popular fiction. The words only mean exactly what they say.
I know I’m no longer responding to your point. Sorry – my rant kicked on. It’s good and valid talk, this.
@darby – that Sam Pink sentence you quoted is where my interest begins to wane in his texts. Perhaps it’s just my preference for loss opposed to anger. I’d love to read Sam Pink write about love without the violence. In his play where the two people hold the steak knives to each other’s throat…that was spectacular. It was also subdued compared to molars and vomit. Maybe I just like my rage mitigated a bit. My Dad never let us yell in the house.
It’s all his fault.
That’s a tao lin sentence, not sam pink. I was trying to show the similarity. Although that’s probably more of an exception for lin.
metaphor is overrated
brad:
that wasnt a sam pink quote. that was tao.
this is sam:
“I am in a retirement home and I am sleeping underneath the bed of an old man who doesn’t know who he is anymore and who thinks his family has disappeared.
I keep saying “Tick tock tick tock, nobody loves you and I won’t hold your hand when you die.”
thats real shit.
That’s a tao lin sentence, not sam pink. I was trying to show the similarity. Although that’s probably more of an exception for lin.
metaphor is overrated
brad:
that wasnt a sam pink quote. that was tao.
this is sam:
“I am in a retirement home and I am sleeping underneath the bed of an old man who doesn’t know who he is anymore and who thinks his family has disappeared.
I keep saying “Tick tock tick tock, nobody loves you and I won’t hold your hand when you die.”
thats real shit.
that sounds like loss
that sounds like loss
Ah, ok. Sorry about that. Then I drift rapidly away reading that Tao sentence. It seems like posturing.
I’m riveted to the page on the one that Barry quoted. That speaks of real fear and cruelty. Excellent.
An aversion to metaphor seems to be fairly popular among the Indie crowd. Why?
Ah, ok. Sorry about that. Then I drift rapidly away reading that Tao sentence. It seems like posturing.
I’m riveted to the page on the one that Barry quoted. That speaks of real fear and cruelty. Excellent.
An aversion to metaphor seems to be fairly popular among the Indie crowd. Why?
More Sam Pink goodness. Hopefully, this will make up for my error. Who can read this and not be fan?
“Inside a big lake is a smaller lake.
Inside me is a bigger me.
Inside me is a much much smaller me that acts like it’s huge.
And when you body shakes and the air in front of you says nothing and there is no one there to confirm that you still make a difference, you will reach into your chest and a pile of dust will greet you. “
More Sam Pink goodness. Hopefully, this will make up for my error. Who can read this and not be fan?
“Inside a big lake is a smaller lake.
Inside me is a bigger me.
Inside me is a much much smaller me that acts like it’s huge.
And when you body shakes and the air in front of you says nothing and there is no one there to confirm that you still make a difference, you will reach into your chest and a pile of dust will greet you. “
a little more sam pink. from:
I AM GOING TO CLONE MYSELF THEN KILL THE CLONE AND EAT IT
“A weird thing to say after shaking someone’s hand is: “Finally, I have always wanted to touch a real human.”
I haven’t combed my hair or tried to make it look a certain way since I was seven years old and even then I felt stupid as fuck for doing so.
If there’s a better way to have an orgasm than switchblading a random pedestrian, I’d like to know.”
I’ve had a personal aversion to metaphor lately. I think because inherent in metaphor is a writer’s intention, and then contrivance, and an author’s hands feel all over it suddenly. Not always. I don’t want to talk in absolutes, I just find myself thinking that a lot. I don’t think I want to get in this conversation actually. I’ve been having this meandering conversation for like five years. I don’t want to say literature should be anything anymore. I want it to all be there, and people can read what they want, or not read anything at all and instead go for a bikeride or something.
a little more sam pink. from:
I AM GOING TO CLONE MYSELF THEN KILL THE CLONE AND EAT IT
“A weird thing to say after shaking someone’s hand is: “Finally, I have always wanted to touch a real human.”
I haven’t combed my hair or tried to make it look a certain way since I was seven years old and even then I felt stupid as fuck for doing so.
If there’s a better way to have an orgasm than switchblading a random pedestrian, I’d like to know.”
I’ve had a personal aversion to metaphor lately. I think because inherent in metaphor is a writer’s intention, and then contrivance, and an author’s hands feel all over it suddenly. Not always. I don’t want to talk in absolutes, I just find myself thinking that a lot. I don’t think I want to get in this conversation actually. I’ve been having this meandering conversation for like five years. I don’t want to say literature should be anything anymore. I want it to all be there, and people can read what they want, or not read anything at all and instead go for a bikeride or something.
you can still get storytelling on dvd, i like the scene where the mexican housekeeper tells the little white nerd what rape is
you can still get storytelling on dvd, i like the scene where the mexican housekeeper tells the little white nerd what rape is
“I’d be very interested to read a work that had emotional resonance and is not based, in some measure, on the real. Who would I look to for that?”
everything is real
including lagveryeiaojlfj
“I’d be very interested to read a work that had emotional resonance and is not based, in some measure, on the real. Who would I look to for that?”
everything is real
including lagveryeiaojlfj
true, but then whats left for print… families eating whale?
true, but then whats left for print… families eating whale?
‘a play about two people’ is a meditation on marquis de sade
‘a play about two people’ is a meditation on marquis de sade
i honestly think tao’s family eating whale story contains more empathy than anything hemingway ever touched
i honestly think tao’s family eating whale story contains more empathy than anything hemingway ever touched
i read thos essay once called “the truth about lying”
honesty is overrated
i read thos essay once called “the truth about lying”
honesty is overrated
Intention is in the concrete sentence as much as it is in the metaphor. To be completely non-contrived and non-intentioned the page would have to be blank. Sorry – I know you said you didn’t want to get into that conversation, but people here are smart enough to understand a stated opinion is not declaring an absolute.
I use a lot of metaphor in my writing. Is it wrong to want to force a reader’s brain into picturing something? It’s a sort of terrorist philosophy, I suppose, this idea that the right combination of words can force another brain to think or visualize a particular thing. Very dogmatic and authoritarian in a way.
Any sentence on a page is a nudge in a particular direction. One can wield in subtle influence or swing a big fat hammer. In the end, it’s all just shades of the same hue.
Freedom is only present in a white page.
Intention is in the concrete sentence as much as it is in the metaphor. To be completely non-contrived and non-intentioned the page would have to be blank. Sorry – I know you said you didn’t want to get into that conversation, but people here are smart enough to understand a stated opinion is not declaring an absolute.
I use a lot of metaphor in my writing. Is it wrong to want to force a reader’s brain into picturing something? It’s a sort of terrorist philosophy, I suppose, this idea that the right combination of words can force another brain to think or visualize a particular thing. Very dogmatic and authoritarian in a way.
Any sentence on a page is a nudge in a particular direction. One can wield in subtle influence or swing a big fat hammer. In the end, it’s all just shades of the same hue.
Freedom is only present in a white page.
i think, brad, that your pint is a good one, but you’re really arguing an idealogy that may or may not be true to some people, so really the discussion is almost pointless. metaphor, structure….
blake makes the most sense
lindervjsistenstein its all the same thing
i think, brad, that your pint is a good one, but you’re really arguing an idealogy that may or may not be true to some people, so really the discussion is almost pointless. metaphor, structure….
blake makes the most sense
lindervjsistenstein its all the same thing
“everything is real
including lagveryeiaojlfj”
Um, I don’t understand that. Is a reality that isn’t shared really a reality at all? A democratic process does come into play in the creation/maintenance of the world.
If anything is real, why not simply type text of any sort on the page? Why do we value words that have meaning to more than one person more than words that only mean something to an individual?
“everything is real
including lagveryeiaojlfj”
Um, I don’t understand that. Is a reality that isn’t shared really a reality at all? A democratic process does come into play in the creation/maintenance of the world.
If anything is real, why not simply type text of any sort on the page? Why do we value words that have meaning to more than one person more than words that only mean something to an individual?
Darby- that piece of Tao’s (I am I Don’t Know What I am…) is in his first poetry collection. I also re-published it–as a short story–in the anthology I edited, The Apocalypse Reader.
Jereme- I also have done very little in terms of reaching out to teenage girls suffering abuse in the home. Should nobody read my work either? Jackass. At least P.H. Madore wrote about Tao’s actual writing. I can’t believe you’ve got me siding with that guy less than a week after I set out to destroy him, and was almost destroyed myself in the process. Happy mean Monday. Jackass.
Darby- that piece of Tao’s (I am I Don’t Know What I am…) is in his first poetry collection. I also re-published it–as a short story–in the anthology I edited, The Apocalypse Reader.
Jereme- I also have done very little in terms of reaching out to teenage girls suffering abuse in the home. Should nobody read my work either? Jackass. At least P.H. Madore wrote about Tao’s actual writing. I can’t believe you’ve got me siding with that guy less than a week after I set out to destroy him, and was almost destroyed myself in the process. Happy mean Monday. Jackass.
define meaning?
who is the decider?
define meaning?
who is the decider?
I’m just trying to understand…especially stuff like this:
“lindervjsistenstein its all the same thing”
Maybe I’m too old and worn out by my kids to understand that.
ani,
i am glad you want to have my babies.
blake will eat them. i will sacrifice second born to blake. i get dibs on the first.
brad,
how am i self-promoting? i see no reference to me. actually, i am promoting blake, htmlgiant and tao lin.
JS,
I like Ezra Pound too. Well I find him interesting. ABC of Reading is a fave of mine. Your observational skills are low though. I am not critical of Tao’s writing. I am not really critical of Tao to be honest. I am critical of people not understanding his motivation and acting like he is something more than a NYU grad student with a few minor works.
Jimmy,
Tao doesn’t believe in abstractions. I guess he doesn’t believe in himself.
JS,
Maybe you are commenting on the other comments in this post? I am not sure.
I’m just trying to understand…especially stuff like this:
“lindervjsistenstein its all the same thing”
Maybe I’m too old and worn out by my kids to understand that.
ani,
i am glad you want to have my babies.
blake will eat them. i will sacrifice second born to blake. i get dibs on the first.
brad,
how am i self-promoting? i see no reference to me. actually, i am promoting blake, htmlgiant and tao lin.
JS,
I like Ezra Pound too. Well I find him interesting. ABC of Reading is a fave of mine. Your observational skills are low though. I am not critical of Tao’s writing. I am not really critical of Tao to be honest. I am critical of people not understanding his motivation and acting like he is something more than a NYU grad student with a few minor works.
Jimmy,
Tao doesn’t believe in abstractions. I guess he doesn’t believe in himself.
JS,
Maybe you are commenting on the other comments in this post? I am not sure.
The decider is both the writer and the reader, I think.
If it really means something, where’s the journal that runs pieces that like? Speaking in terms of writing…the only time that everything is the same is prior to the letters getting laid on a page. As soon as the potential converges into a stave, the damage is done. A declaration and choice has been made.
The decider is both the writer and the reader, I think.
If it really means something, where’s the journal that runs pieces that like? Speaking in terms of writing…the only time that everything is the same is prior to the letters getting laid on a page. As soon as the potential converges into a stave, the damage is done. A declaration and choice has been made.
brad. i think you just made my point. you said
“Um, I don’t understand that. Is a reality that isn’t shared really a reality at all?”
so by this definition, the fact that me and blake share the opinion makes it a reality?
not to you?
you have your own reality, thats the point.
brad. i think you just made my point. you said
“Um, I don’t understand that. Is a reality that isn’t shared really a reality at all?”
so by this definition, the fact that me and blake share the opinion makes it a reality?
not to you?
you have your own reality, thats the point.
brad:
here’s the journal. check this out at pequin
http://pequin.org/archives/2008/stevefinbow/story.php
brad:
here’s the journal. check this out at pequin
http://pequin.org/archives/2008/stevefinbow/story.php
My big beef with meaning is I think it’s just boring, in the end. Or the process of creating meaning got old for me. Usually I come around, but I always think, this is the same thing all writers do, over and over, make meaning, and I want to rebel and have no meaning, or something other than meaning. Something that is not meaningful and not meaningless, some other -ning. But it probably doesn’t exist like how you can never be in a parallel universe, but I keep butting up against that wall but it doesn’t exist and I come back and use meaning even though I don’t want to, and even though I end up using meaning in the end because I have to, I think it helps me as a writer to strive for not-meaning even though it is impossible. I think fiction emerges in interesting ways when no one is writing it.
jereme:
i like this a lot
“I am critical of people not understanding his motivation and acting like he is something more than a NYU grad student with a few minor works.”
My big beef with meaning is I think it’s just boring, in the end. Or the process of creating meaning got old for me. Usually I come around, but I always think, this is the same thing all writers do, over and over, make meaning, and I want to rebel and have no meaning, or something other than meaning. Something that is not meaningful and not meaningless, some other -ning. But it probably doesn’t exist like how you can never be in a parallel universe, but I keep butting up against that wall but it doesn’t exist and I come back and use meaning even though I don’t want to, and even though I end up using meaning in the end because I have to, I think it helps me as a writer to strive for not-meaning even though it is impossible. I think fiction emerges in interesting ways when no one is writing it.
jereme:
i like this a lot
“I am critical of people not understanding his motivation and acting like he is something more than a NYU grad student with a few minor works.”
i like thinking about this discussion of metaphor/simile whathaveyou.
i havent written very many of them in my writing anymore because i often dont find myself thinking about the world that way. i dont think, ‘i am driving my car like such and such’ or ‘i feel like an uprooted tree.’ bu tthen again, maybe i am talking about very explicit metaphor/simile, the kind where everything is pretty much out there immediately, clear, etc. allegory?
i also dont write verymany metaphor/simile whatever because i think they are really hard to write well. i would rather play to my strengths at the moment then try to improve my weakness. if that makes sense?
i think you can still have a lyrical quality to your work without metaphor/simile. i think you can find that quality in how the words sound and feel, etc.
i am not saying i never write metaphor/simile. or that i wont try it. i am just saying my feeling on it is this at the moment.
i like thinking about this discussion of metaphor/simile whathaveyou.
i havent written very many of them in my writing anymore because i often dont find myself thinking about the world that way. i dont think, ‘i am driving my car like such and such’ or ‘i feel like an uprooted tree.’ bu tthen again, maybe i am talking about very explicit metaphor/simile, the kind where everything is pretty much out there immediately, clear, etc. allegory?
i also dont write verymany metaphor/simile whatever because i think they are really hard to write well. i would rather play to my strengths at the moment then try to improve my weakness. if that makes sense?
i think you can still have a lyrical quality to your work without metaphor/simile. i think you can find that quality in how the words sound and feel, etc.
i am not saying i never write metaphor/simile. or that i wont try it. i am just saying my feeling on it is this at the moment.
Justin,
Thank god you said somethinig. I was wondering when one of Tao’s knights would come to his aid. I was a little scared none would.
As I stated above, the point of my post was directed at people who won’t shut the fuck up about tao and his greatness while making no effort to understand the motivation behind tao. I gave examples. It is not my fault the examples stated affected you negatively. You are in charge of your own emotions.
i am glad you have the man love for tao. thank you for calling me a jack ass. thank you for discrediting yourself.
hate me or love me. I don’t really care. My goal has been achieved.
I wrote a post about Tao per his request. To be honest, my post is better than yours. It will garner more attention and promote him better. I win over you. Try harder for his affection.
Hi it’s Mean Monday and I am not scared of any of you.
Taste it bitches.
Justin,
Thank god you said somethinig. I was wondering when one of Tao’s knights would come to his aid. I was a little scared none would.
As I stated above, the point of my post was directed at people who won’t shut the fuck up about tao and his greatness while making no effort to understand the motivation behind tao. I gave examples. It is not my fault the examples stated affected you negatively. You are in charge of your own emotions.
i am glad you have the man love for tao. thank you for calling me a jack ass. thank you for discrediting yourself.
hate me or love me. I don’t really care. My goal has been achieved.
I wrote a post about Tao per his request. To be honest, my post is better than yours. It will garner more attention and promote him better. I win over you. Try harder for his affection.
Hi it’s Mean Monday and I am not scared of any of you.
Taste it bitches.
ryan, i think you nailed it.
“i havent written very many of them in my writing anymore because i often dont find myself thinking about the world that way.”
well said
ryan, i think you nailed it.
“i havent written very many of them in my writing anymore because i often dont find myself thinking about the world that way.”
well said
barry,
we all eat, shit and die. none of us are special. the universe tolerates us all.
barry,
we all eat, shit and die. none of us are special. the universe tolerates us all.
i agree. some more than others
“so by this definition, the fact that me and blake share the opinion makes it a reality?
not to you?
you have your own reality, thats the point.”
Sure, I can get that. Well said. I guess it comes down to me just trusting that it means something to both of you. But does it mean the same thing or close to the same thing? I wonder that. No need to answer. It’s one of those unresolvable situations, perhaps. In the end, perhaps it all comes down to faith.
Thanks for the Finbow link Barry. That’s interesting. This probably doesn’t surprise you, but I preferred the version with the text. Punctuation without text is like a bra without boobs. Something important is missing.
i agree. some more than others
“so by this definition, the fact that me and blake share the opinion makes it a reality?
not to you?
you have your own reality, thats the point.”
Sure, I can get that. Well said. I guess it comes down to me just trusting that it means something to both of you. But does it mean the same thing or close to the same thing? I wonder that. No need to answer. It’s one of those unresolvable situations, perhaps. In the end, perhaps it all comes down to faith.
Thanks for the Finbow link Barry. That’s interesting. This probably doesn’t surprise you, but I preferred the version with the text. Punctuation without text is like a bra without boobs. Something important is missing.
and if i do, i think they come out unconsciously and then i worry over them for a long time. they tend to be very understated. one word. or something.
and if i do, i think they come out unconsciously and then i worry over them for a long time. they tend to be very understated. one word. or something.
“It’s one of those unresolvable situations,”
thats what i meany when i said
“so really the discussion is almost pointless.”
and you are right of course, i doubt it means the same thing to blake and i, but what piece of writing means the same thing to any two people?
in the end, good discussion, but i feel like i felt the whole time, its endless, and ultimately, perhaps pointless
“It’s one of those unresolvable situations,”
thats what i meany when i said
“so really the discussion is almost pointless.”
and you are right of course, i doubt it means the same thing to blake and i, but what piece of writing means the same thing to any two people?
in the end, good discussion, but i feel like i felt the whole time, its endless, and ultimately, perhaps pointless
barry, kimbo said your chin is questionable.
barry, kimbo said your chin is questionable.
probably. but judging from his last fight, it wont go more then a minute before he drops
probably. but judging from his last fight, it wont go more then a minute before he drops
jereme- You’re awful touchy for a guy who’s glad to see me. “i did this because tao asked me to” was the same thing PH Madore said. If the bed fits, sleep in it, I guess.
Sorry I’m late but I’ve been out in the real world, such as it is. I went to see Junot Diaz and Samuel Delaney give a reading. The place was packed shoulder to shoulder. I’ve never been to a reading that packed. A girl at the bar fainted. Medics came. Both readers were great.
I could give a fuck about motivations. Go back up near the top of this comments thread and re-read the Pound quote that someone left for you. Your problem is not that you’re wrong about anything, necessarily, it’s that your perspective is so fucking tiny. No sense of scale whatsoever. But that’s fine too, I guess.
Blake- have you read For Whom the Bell Tolls? Jesus. What the fuck is wrong with all of you tonight?
(obvious answer- it’s not you, it’s me. sorry. but also, fuck ya’ll. for real.)
i watched this video where that olympic gymnast girl, the one from beijing, hit this guy in the mouth and knocked him out.
jereme- You’re awful touchy for a guy who’s glad to see me. “i did this because tao asked me to” was the same thing PH Madore said. If the bed fits, sleep in it, I guess.
Sorry I’m late but I’ve been out in the real world, such as it is. I went to see Junot Diaz and Samuel Delaney give a reading. The place was packed shoulder to shoulder. I’ve never been to a reading that packed. A girl at the bar fainted. Medics came. Both readers were great.
I could give a fuck about motivations. Go back up near the top of this comments thread and re-read the Pound quote that someone left for you. Your problem is not that you’re wrong about anything, necessarily, it’s that your perspective is so fucking tiny. No sense of scale whatsoever. But that’s fine too, I guess.
Blake- have you read For Whom the Bell Tolls? Jesus. What the fuck is wrong with all of you tonight?
(obvious answer- it’s not you, it’s me. sorry. but also, fuck ya’ll. for real.)
i watched this video where that olympic gymnast girl, the one from beijing, hit this guy in the mouth and knocked him out.
Not pointless. I understand more about this stuff now, I think. At least I have a few ideas bouncing around. I’ve grown as a result of this. Thank you.
I think in metaphors constantly. I think because I am always trying to connect dots.
Not pointless. I understand more about this stuff now, I think. At least I have a few ideas bouncing around. I’ve grown as a result of this. Thank you.
I think in metaphors constantly. I think because I am always trying to connect dots.
justin:
ha ha ha.
only on html giant is going to a junot diaz reading… “out in the real world”
also, its not just you, everyone is off their fucking rockers tonight.
except me and sam because we are blowing each other.
justin:
ha ha ha.
only on html giant is going to a junot diaz reading… “out in the real world”
also, its not just you, everyone is off their fucking rockers tonight.
except me and sam because we are blowing each other.
Connecting dots, yes. That’s why I like metaphors. I think the potential of a text expands with their use. The potential of a text is diminished when rendered in an exclusively concrete language perhaps. I’m trying to avoid the word meaning here.
Connecting dots, yes. That’s why I like metaphors. I think the potential of a text expands with their use. The potential of a text is diminished when rendered in an exclusively concrete language perhaps. I’m trying to avoid the word meaning here.
i like trying to connect dots. i guess i try to do it differently?
i like trying to connect dots. i guess i try to do it differently?
i am confused a little now – the potential of a text can expand through metaphor, but also, as with any choice you make, it somehow weirdly blocks off otehr aveneus?
It’s all my fault. Hardly any of this is about Tao Lin. Shouldn’t there be more talk of Tao Lin in a Tao Lin pimping post?
like if I’m driving and I see two birds in a tree or something, I’ll think, what concept can I connect to that.
i am confused a little now – the potential of a text can expand through metaphor, but also, as with any choice you make, it somehow weirdly blocks off otehr aveneus?
It’s all my fault. Hardly any of this is about Tao Lin. Shouldn’t there be more talk of Tao Lin in a Tao Lin pimping post?
like if I’m driving and I see two birds in a tree or something, I’ll think, what concept can I connect to that.
Ryan, yes, I agree. Any choice by nature limits the pure potential. I think the avenues of the metaphor are wider than those of the concrete road is all. More cars on the road. This can also lead to smog and traffic accidents, so beware.
“a text is diminished when rendered in an exclusively concrete language perhaps”
i know this is your reality and i respect it… but this statement is 100 percent false
Ryan, yes, I agree. Any choice by nature limits the pure potential. I think the avenues of the metaphor are wider than those of the concrete road is all. More cars on the road. This can also lead to smog and traffic accidents, so beware.
“a text is diminished when rendered in an exclusively concrete language perhaps”
i know this is your reality and i respect it… but this statement is 100 percent false
Two birds in a tree immediately make me think of Barry and Sam Pink.
Two birds in a tree immediately make me think of Barry and Sam Pink.
dh lawrence wrote a metaphor about a hawk sitting on fence post like a clenched fist or something that always lingers in my mind and i read the story three eyars ago. i ruined it now. but yeah
yeah i agree, that is a sort of connection. i think i am talking about outright, overcrafted metaphor. i think i am going to have to revise this thinking. i thnk i am suddenly very confused
i think concrete writing works the best and is strong as hell, when the emphasis becomes the readers interpretation of what is being shown to them.
This reminds me I wrote a thing years ago. Here it is.
dh lawrence wrote a metaphor about a hawk sitting on fence post like a clenched fist or something that always lingers in my mind and i read the story three eyars ago. i ruined it now. but yeah
yeah i agree, that is a sort of connection. i think i am talking about outright, overcrafted metaphor. i think i am going to have to revise this thinking. i thnk i am suddenly very confused
i think concrete writing works the best and is strong as hell, when the emphasis becomes the readers interpretation of what is being shown to them.
This reminds me I wrote a thing years ago. Here it is.
barry- thanks for clarifying that. it makes sense now.
if i had to pick one thing to complain about that tao does, it would be his stand against metaphors, which seems to be one of the other threads running here. i think as a matter of practice, it seems to be working for him, so whatever, but the theory-philosophy which seems to underlie said practice seems to me pretty unsound, plus the actual explanations are so half-baked and usually poorly written.
barry- thanks for clarifying that. it makes sense now.
if i had to pick one thing to complain about that tao does, it would be his stand against metaphors, which seems to be one of the other threads running here. i think as a matter of practice, it seems to be working for him, so whatever, but the theory-philosophy which seems to underlie said practice seems to me pretty unsound, plus the actual explanations are so half-baked and usually poorly written.
its just a tricky thing for a writer not to intepret the writing for the reader. when a writer is really good enough to just descripe and let the reader do the interpreting, its magic.
i feel like no one here is really understanding what other people are saying, me included.
we need definitions for the following:
metaphor
concrete
lyrical
and
saldjalkgadfh
100 percent false is an absolute. it could be true. I did append a perhaps to the statement. it’s not always so.
the danger of the metaphor is that one chokes the text with ambiguity. the danger of the concrete sentence is that one chokes the text with spurious detail.
everything benefits from moderation. we can probably agree on that.
its just a tricky thing for a writer not to intepret the writing for the reader. when a writer is really good enough to just descripe and let the reader do the interpreting, its magic.
i feel like no one here is really understanding what other people are saying, me included.
we need definitions for the following:
metaphor
concrete
lyrical
and
saldjalkgadfh
100 percent false is an absolute. it could be true. I did append a perhaps to the statement. it’s not always so.
the danger of the metaphor is that one chokes the text with ambiguity. the danger of the concrete sentence is that one chokes the text with spurious detail.
everything benefits from moderation. we can probably agree on that.
the concepts of “concrete language” and “objective reality” both seem like bullshit to me. reeks of philosophy 101, and people who are way to into ayn rand.
i miss ‘pr’ so much right now. i don’t know if she’d agree with me or not, i just wish she was around. i’m going to sleep now.
the concepts of “concrete language” and “objective reality” both seem like bullshit to me. reeks of philosophy 101, and people who are way to into ayn rand.
i miss ‘pr’ so much right now. i don’t know if she’d agree with me or not, i just wish she was around. i’m going to sleep now.
justin
right. i think that ‘stand’ is coloring this discussion. but i also dont think anyone here is advocating that writers ought to never use metaphor. i think what im most worried about is careless metaphor in my writing, which has led me to limit the clunky, equationlike metaphors…
am i making sense? i feel really weird and sweaty
justin
right. i think that ‘stand’ is coloring this discussion. but i also dont think anyone here is advocating that writers ought to never use metaphor. i think what im most worried about is careless metaphor in my writing, which has led me to limit the clunky, equationlike metaphors…
am i making sense? i feel really weird and sweaty
i know very well what is being said and i know what i mean.
concrete descriptions – when the author just presents them without interpreting them – is strong as hell.
i know very well what is being said and i know what i mean.
concrete descriptions – when the author just presents them without interpreting them – is strong as hell.
how strong is hell?
that’s funny!
how strong is hell?
that’s funny!
who the fuck is justin taylor?
“100 percent false is an absolute” true. but its my absolute. its real to me. i thought we were passed that.
there is nothing wrong with very good metaphors. just as there is nothing wrong with very good concrete description
who the fuck is justin taylor?
“100 percent false is an absolute” true. but its my absolute. its real to me. i thought we were passed that.
there is nothing wrong with very good metaphors. just as there is nothing wrong with very good concrete description
Justin,
Your emotions betray you. We wrote about the exact same concept: ‘tao lin’s fans are annoying’
the main difference is i gave examples of why while you were abusive and dismissing.
if you go up to the beginning of my post, you’ll see where i said ‘tao lin is not good or bad but self-interested’.
come on justin. i know you have a fancy degree. do i really need to be more plain for you to understand it? i don’t think so.
i think your man love is getting in the way. it’s okay but you should know better.
i am not critical of tao. third iteration (first was tacit but i guess people need help realizing this).
i have promoted HTMLGIANT and Tao Lin. My objective is here.
fuck you and the emo pony you are crying on.
i don’t reallyl mean to be that harsh but it sounds tough and should incite a response out of you.
oh and i like your name dropping between the first and third paragraph where you bash me. i am not sure why it’s in there.
hey i talked to the guy who plays kumar last week at work. look at me. i’m special.
hell is strong enough to scare otherwise intelligent folks for thousands of years
Justin,
Your emotions betray you. We wrote about the exact same concept: ‘tao lin’s fans are annoying’
the main difference is i gave examples of why while you were abusive and dismissing.
if you go up to the beginning of my post, you’ll see where i said ‘tao lin is not good or bad but self-interested’.
come on justin. i know you have a fancy degree. do i really need to be more plain for you to understand it? i don’t think so.
i think your man love is getting in the way. it’s okay but you should know better.
i am not critical of tao. third iteration (first was tacit but i guess people need help realizing this).
i have promoted HTMLGIANT and Tao Lin. My objective is here.
fuck you and the emo pony you are crying on.
i don’t reallyl mean to be that harsh but it sounds tough and should incite a response out of you.
oh and i like your name dropping between the first and third paragraph where you bash me. i am not sure why it’s in there.
hey i talked to the guy who plays kumar last week at work. look at me. i’m special.
hell is strong enough to scare otherwise intelligent folks for thousands of years
oh. thanks.
how fancy is justin’s degree?
i dont mind tao line “the entity” i dont mind his marketing and promo. im just not that into the writing. but that doesnt mean it isnt great, it just aint my thing, and that doesnt mean i wont do anything i can to support him as a member of the writing community, or any other writer for that matter.
oh. thanks.
how fancy is justin’s degree?
i dont mind tao line “the entity” i dont mind his marketing and promo. im just not that into the writing. but that doesnt mean it isnt great, it just aint my thing, and that doesnt mean i wont do anything i can to support him as a member of the writing community, or any other writer for that matter.
justin taylor doesn’t care about troubled teens
justins degree is so fancy that you cant even buy that quality of paper at staples, you have to go to a better store
justin taylor doesn’t care about troubled teens
justins degree is so fancy that you cant even buy that quality of paper at staples, you have to go to a better store
you people are being really fucking boring.
darby,
fancy enough to allow him to be more special than you or me.
gena,
who the fuck is jereme dean. who the fuck are any of us.
my comment stats went through the fucking roof like a dildo swallowing a baby.
i rule so fucking much. i am so special.
pr would side with me.
sarcastic lol
you people are being really fucking boring.
darby,
fancy enough to allow him to be more special than you or me.
gena,
who the fuck is jereme dean. who the fuck are any of us.
my comment stats went through the fucking roof like a dildo swallowing a baby.
i rule so fucking much. i am so special.
pr would side with me.
sarcastic lol
“i thought we were passed that.”
Well, that’s the part that can’t be passed probably. We’ll diverge on how much reality is a democratic process. That’s not a problem. I think we both agree that good execution in prose, whether concrete or metaphorical, is pretty awesome stuff.
Again – thanks for the discussion. It’s been a pleasure. I have to go to bed now.
“i thought we were passed that.”
Well, that’s the part that can’t be passed probably. We’ll diverge on how much reality is a democratic process. That’s not a problem. I think we both agree that good execution in prose, whether concrete or metaphorical, is pretty awesome stuff.
Again – thanks for the discussion. It’s been a pleasure. I have to go to bed now.
well
good news: a little over 30 people have signed up for secret santa…
well
good news: a little over 30 people have signed up for secret santa…
this post is epic
that sure is a fancy degree then. wow.
ryan,
i forgot to email. 31.
i think pr as a general rule is always on the opposite side of darby, so you do the math
congrats on that justin.
this post is epic
that sure is a fancy degree then. wow.
ryan,
i forgot to email. 31.
i think pr as a general rule is always on the opposite side of darby, so you do the math
congrats on that justin.
yeah, pr is my nemesis.
done
send along address when yous got a chance
yeah, pr is my nemesis.
done
send along address when yous got a chance
125 comments… this shit is outrageous
Jesus, what’s happened here?
Is language ever “concrete”? Jump on some Saussure, yo. I think I’m with Justin on this one.
“Is a reality that isn’t shared really a reality at all? ”
I think the point is that there’s no such thing as a shared reality. Everything’s mediated. Or nothing is mediated.
I think metaphor is useful to get at something *more* precisely than would be possible without, and isn’t that at least some of the fun in writing, to fuck with that? For example, “he had blue eyes”, “his eyes were sky blue”, “I blue his eyes”. Something like that. This will be demoed after the triple reacharound at AWP.
125 comments… this shit is outrageous
Jesus, what’s happened here?
Is language ever “concrete”? Jump on some Saussure, yo. I think I’m with Justin on this one.
“Is a reality that isn’t shared really a reality at all? ”
I think the point is that there’s no such thing as a shared reality. Everything’s mediated. Or nothing is mediated.
I think metaphor is useful to get at something *more* precisely than would be possible without, and isn’t that at least some of the fun in writing, to fuck with that? For example, “he had blue eyes”, “his eyes were sky blue”, “I blue his eyes”. Something like that. This will be demoed after the triple reacharound at AWP.
i am thinking if justin has a degree, it would be fancy and in an even fancier frame.
made from the hymens of only the best virgins.
so he can point at it and say ‘look at how special i am. fuck you jackass. i heart tao lin. shhh don’t tell any one.’
i am thinking if justin has a degree, it would be fancy and in an even fancier frame.
made from the hymens of only the best virgins.
so he can point at it and say ‘look at how special i am. fuck you jackass. i heart tao lin. shhh don’t tell any one.’
yeah, probably he fucks his degree through the little whole he made in the paper with his tongue.
barry,
shit talking sells baby. why do you think i’m here?
yeah, probably he fucks his degree through the little whole he made in the paper with his tongue.
barry,
shit talking sells baby. why do you think i’m here?
matt – did you read all 125 comments? fuck.
“Is a reality that isn’t shared really a reality at all? ”
I think the point is that there’s no such thing as a shared reality.
lldddgsgtligtensteik
matt – did you read all 125 comments? fuck.
“Is a reality that isn’t shared really a reality at all? ”
I think the point is that there’s no such thing as a shared reality.
lldddgsgtligtensteik
barry,
that is a profound statement. i will have to dwell on ‘reality’ and get back to you.
jereme…
very nice.
128 comments. you are legend
barry,
that is a profound statement. i will have to dwell on ‘reality’ and get back to you.
jereme…
very nice.
128 comments. you are legend
that wasnt my statement.. thats what matt said
that wasnt my statement.. thats what matt said
I remember from Philoph something about a capital R-Reality, like a reality no one can experience but that exists, and then all the little individual realities of people and animals are kind of close to the Reality but no. So people and animals are unreal and only the mermaids are real basically.
and the minotaurs
and unicorns
and SUVs with good mpg
I remember from Philoph something about a capital R-Reality, like a reality no one can experience but that exists, and then all the little individual realities of people and animals are kind of close to the Reality but no. So people and animals are unreal and only the mermaids are real basically.
and the minotaurs
and unicorns
and SUVs with good mpg
darby:
thats what i do with all 4 of mine. i fold them up like hannah montana’s vag first.
and Ryan Call
darby:
thats what i do with all 4 of mine. i fold them up like hannah montana’s vag first.
and Ryan Call
yes and my boring name
where did you learn to fold?
yes and my boring name
where did you learn to fold?
Okay direct it at Matt. I’m getting punch drunk with all the comments.
Okay direct it at Matt. I’m getting punch drunk with all the comments.
Ryan Call can be kind of a funny name. Like, did Ryan call? I used to have a roomate in the army who’s name was Scott Held, and I told this to my sister and she said, like Scott held a pencil?
Ryan Call can be kind of a funny name. Like, did Ryan call? I used to have a roomate in the army who’s name was Scott Held, and I told this to my sister and she said, like Scott held a pencil?
yeah i mean, i have been hearing that shit since long ago
it isnt as funny to me i guess
but im all for people updating it
jereme:
i wasnt saying it to matt, i was quoting him.
darby:
its on the disney website
scott held is much better
yeah i mean, i have been hearing that shit since long ago
it isnt as funny to me i guess
but im all for people updating it
jereme:
i wasnt saying it to matt, i was quoting him.
darby:
its on the disney website
scott held is much better
well, with me, I have to repeat my name three times for everyone and then spell it because no in the universe is named Darby except some disney midget.
well, with me, I have to repeat my name three times for everyone and then spell it because no in the universe is named Darby except some disney midget.
‘ryan call your mom. i’m in a frisky mood’
come on, mom jokes are still funny. laugh.
htmlgiant said i was commenting too fast
‘ryan call your mom. i’m in a frisky mood’
come on, mom jokes are still funny. laugh.
htmlgiant said i was commenting too fast
slow down
ryan, you are commenting too fast
i have to teach an 8 am class. what the fuck am i doing right now?
im okay now.
slow down
ryan, you are commenting too fast
i have to teach an 8 am class. what the fuck am i doing right now?
im okay now.
darby,
uhm darby crash? that’s where i know the name.
you hang out with lamers.
crash darby too
darby,
uhm darby crash? that’s where i know the name.
you hang out with lamers.
crash darby too
i met a girl named ‘caress cox’
i laughed in her face after she asked me not to laugh before she told me her name.
it was awkward.
boy did i laugh though.
I’m confused about who is saying or arguing or what at this point, but I’ll just throw this out there not knowing if it’s relevant at all or if I’m right, or if anybody cares, but my point about reality – I’d ask what you mean by reality, first, but only you know what it’s like to live in your own body and see through your own eyes, pee through your orifice, etc, right? So I would say that we can maybe make certain assumptions about what other people’s ‘reality’ might be, but we have limited means of sharing that ‘reality’ because any expression of our own reality is a mediation because we’re attempting to get at something that only we can really experience through our perceptions, our body, etc. – the chief mode of expression is language, which is imprecise (like the word cat – I say cat, we all have a different picture of ‘cat’ in our heads.) We can get at something, right, like I can type this paragraph or the word ‘cat’ and hope a reader understands it in the way I intend or the way I hope, but it’s really only an approximation. So when I hear somebody talking about ‘concrete language’ I call bullshit because it’s a cheap way to defend a certain mode of expression that is really no better at expressing ‘reality’ than another mode.
i met a girl named ‘caress cox’
i laughed in her face after she asked me not to laugh before she told me her name.
it was awkward.
boy did i laugh though.
I’m confused about who is saying or arguing or what at this point, but I’ll just throw this out there not knowing if it’s relevant at all or if I’m right, or if anybody cares, but my point about reality – I’d ask what you mean by reality, first, but only you know what it’s like to live in your own body and see through your own eyes, pee through your orifice, etc, right? So I would say that we can maybe make certain assumptions about what other people’s ‘reality’ might be, but we have limited means of sharing that ‘reality’ because any expression of our own reality is a mediation because we’re attempting to get at something that only we can really experience through our perceptions, our body, etc. – the chief mode of expression is language, which is imprecise (like the word cat – I say cat, we all have a different picture of ‘cat’ in our heads.) We can get at something, right, like I can type this paragraph or the word ‘cat’ and hope a reader understands it in the way I intend or the way I hope, but it’s really only an approximation. So when I hear somebody talking about ‘concrete language’ I call bullshit because it’s a cheap way to defend a certain mode of expression that is really no better at expressing ‘reality’ than another mode.
I just googled ‘origami vagina’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Co2JESBEc0
shit, I think I missed the party.
I just googled ‘origami vagina’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Co2JESBEc0
shit, I think I missed the party.
matt, you and brad should talk about that shit tomorrow. its late and folks just wanna babble
Matt,
I concur. Until science can achieve brain implants, i will never believe in the idea of ‘soul’.
Matt K
go on. i am reading.
matt, you and brad should talk about that shit tomorrow. its late and folks just wanna babble
Matt,
I concur. Until science can achieve brain implants, i will never believe in the idea of ‘soul’.
Matt K
go on. i am reading.
i want to write a poem and name it “pee through your orifice”
i want to write a poem and name it “pee through your orifice”
i want to pee through your orifice
i want to pee through your orifice
darby:
i just watched that shit.. funny
darby:
i just watched that shit.. funny
I am in Mountain Time (the forgotten time zone) so it is prime time for pointless internet arguments. Ryan – I think that’s all I’ve got! I am mostly trying to avoid writing this paper that I am not writing right now because I am writing things on here.
hey guys! i just realized i have no concept of scale.
i’m a horrible person
omfg.
matt –
unless you are on west coast time, then its early, philosophize away
I am in Mountain Time (the forgotten time zone) so it is prime time for pointless internet arguments. Ryan – I think that’s all I’ve got! I am mostly trying to avoid writing this paper that I am not writing right now because I am writing things on here.
hey guys! i just realized i have no concept of scale.
i’m a horrible person
omfg.
matt –
unless you are on west coast time, then its early, philosophize away
I’m in pacific time. It’s only 10pm here. I’m only on my first beer.
was darby just hitting on me or trying to make me say “ewwwww” like a preppy teen?
I’m in pacific time. It’s only 10pm here. I’m only on my first beer.
was darby just hitting on me or trying to make me say “ewwwww” like a preppy teen?
I was simply stating something I want.
I was simply stating something I want.
I am in Utah where it might be illegal for me to drink without having a snack at the same time. I think I’m all out of philosophizing unless we want to talk about orifices, or if I can steer the conversation to talking about pastoral poetry (paper writing time! Really!)
I am in Utah where it might be illegal for me to drink without having a snack at the same time. I think I’m all out of philosophizing unless we want to talk about orifices, or if I can steer the conversation to talking about pastoral poetry (paper writing time! Really!)
i am confused by your desire
i am confused by your desire
ok. yeah. i was thinking about the reality thing and then i got really tired. but i want to talk about metaphors more at some point
darby, im moving to whiskey
ok. yeah. i was thinking about the reality thing and then i got really tired. but i want to talk about metaphors more at some point
darby, im moving to whiskey
what about peeing on orifices what about it
im going to sleep, my students already think i talk gibberish in the morning, i cant make it any worse for them
what about peeing on orifices what about it
im going to sleep, my students already think i talk gibberish in the morning, i cant make it any worse for them
slow down, ryan
slow down, ryan
My desire is basically that I want to pee through your orifice. I can’t make it any simpler.
My desire is basically that I want to pee through your orifice. I can’t make it any simpler.
Make tomorrow “free writing” day.
That is the problem with communication – we are not able to pee through one another’s orificies, thus we can never say what we truly mean. That is why it is difficult to love.
Make tomorrow “free writing” day.
That is the problem with communication – we are not able to pee through one another’s orificies, thus we can never say what we truly mean. That is why it is difficult to love.
once again, these comments are the most boring thing i’ve ever seen. please stick to writing literature instead of wasting your time on internet arguments.
here is a good place to argue about dumb shit:
http://www.fark.com/
please don’t make html giant into online literature’s fark.
tomorrow, let’s all pee in our offices.
once again, these comments are the most boring thing i’ve ever seen. please stick to writing literature instead of wasting your time on internet arguments.
here is a good place to argue about dumb shit:
http://www.fark.com/
please don’t make html giant into online literature’s fark.
tomorrow, let’s all pee in our offices.
“writing literature” is funny to me.
“writing literature” is funny to me.
i have a lymph node
::Is a reality that isn’t shared really a reality at all? .::
are you kidding? i think any reality that Is shared is not reality.
anything i have experienced the presence of others has been in retrospect and often even at the time, a thing made out of lard and confetti
‘If anything is real, why not simply type text of any sort on the page?’
i type anything on the page all the time. ‘anything on the page’ doesn’t have to mean oaidhfoaihsdofjaosdj it can mean ‘The woman showed the ficus plant her abnormal gourd.’
matt k is the shit
hemingway
i have a lymph node
::Is a reality that isn’t shared really a reality at all? .::
are you kidding? i think any reality that Is shared is not reality.
anything i have experienced the presence of others has been in retrospect and often even at the time, a thing made out of lard and confetti
‘If anything is real, why not simply type text of any sort on the page?’
i type anything on the page all the time. ‘anything on the page’ doesn’t have to mean oaidhfoaihsdofjaosdj it can mean ‘The woman showed the ficus plant her abnormal gourd.’
matt k is the shit
hemingway
haha ‘writing literature’
haha ‘writing literature’
some of you guys too quickly forget what ‘tongue in cheek’ and ‘bad press is good press’ means
we’re all talking about books here, okay?
books
books
books
some of you guys too quickly forget what ‘tongue in cheek’ and ‘bad press is good press’ means
we’re all talking about books here, okay?
books
books
books
i have a lymph node also. it’s been a little swollen for about six months
i have a lymph node also. it’s been a little swollen for about six months
my lymph node is fancier than your lymph node.
i agree, matt k.
i also want to clarify that i didn’t read any of the comments. i thought it was all reactionary shit-talking with no purpose other than to have voices heard. i just remember a dumb debate about nothing going on.
it looks now like it’s all peeing into orifices which is fine by me, and way more productive.
piss-fuck into the next millenium. that is my battlecry for htmlgiant.
my lymph node is fancier than your lymph node.
i agree, matt k.
i also want to clarify that i didn’t read any of the comments. i thought it was all reactionary shit-talking with no purpose other than to have voices heard. i just remember a dumb debate about nothing going on.
it looks now like it’s all peeing into orifices which is fine by me, and way more productive.
piss-fuck into the next millenium. that is my battlecry for htmlgiant.
my lymph node raped your lymph node
ok, so pissfuck is when you have sex with someone and then you stay inside the person until your dick is soft and then you piss inside them.
that is pissfuck.
i’m sorry. i had to let you know.
my lymph node raped your lymph node
ok, so pissfuck is when you have sex with someone and then you stay inside the person until your dick is soft and then you piss inside them.
that is pissfuck.
i’m sorry. i had to let you know.
daniel,
i can piss while hard. ueber piss fuck.
pissfuck sounds rational to me. thanks daniel.
daniel,
i can piss while hard. ueber piss fuck.
pissfuck sounds rational to me. thanks daniel.
seriousness: I would actually like to hear more about the reading Justin went to. I didn’t realize Delaney did readings.
also: I will sign up the secret santa I think. yes.
also: tao lin, eh. I’ve gotten so tired of discussing him. Probably if I met him and hung out with him and learned that he is an actual person instead of this concept we’ve all conjured, he’s probably a nice guy, like most guys are nice guys and girls too. Girls are nice sometimes.
seriousness: I would actually like to hear more about the reading Justin went to. I didn’t realize Delaney did readings.
also: I will sign up the secret santa I think. yes.
also: tao lin, eh. I’ve gotten so tired of discussing him. Probably if I met him and hung out with him and learned that he is an actual person instead of this concept we’ve all conjured, he’s probably a nice guy, like most guys are nice guys and girls too. Girls are nice sometimes.
I am turning this mean post into a nice post because now it is tuesday.
I am turning this mean post into a nice post because now it is tuesday.
Daniel – Pissfuck is useful. Can you explain the shitfuck?
Daniel – Pissfuck is useful. Can you explain the shitfuck?
massive people tuesday. I wonder who it will be. The candidates in my head are hmm. Kelly Spitzer? Dave Clapper? Cooper Renner? Derek White? Tao Lin!
massive people tuesday. I wonder who it will be. The candidates in my head are hmm. Kelly Spitzer? Dave Clapper? Cooper Renner? Derek White? Tao Lin!
darby,
i vote for michael kimball.
darby,
i vote for michael kimball.
fuck. i was lazy this week. this is a week of eating and sleeping. i make thanksgiving all week.
though one of the people on that list is coming up next.
fuck. i was lazy this week. this is a week of eating and sleeping. i make thanksgiving all week.
though one of the people on that list is coming up next.
chirping birds
chirping birds
2
0
0
ice-coooooold.
0
ice-coooooold.
shitfuck is just another cussword like peewad or beesie-bozzy. it’s not very offensive or controversial at all. in fact, i would say shitfuck in front of a crowd of six-year-old girls with no regrets. i think they would be better for hearing that word.
shitfuck is just another cussword like peewad or beesie-bozzy. it’s not very offensive or controversial at all. in fact, i would say shitfuck in front of a crowd of six-year-old girls with no regrets. i think they would be better for hearing that word.
thank you ken.
200 comments. i feel massive like a html giant.
thank you ken.
200 comments. i feel massive like a html giant.
what the fuck
htmlgiant is like a bovine kept pregnant just for the milk
what the fuck
htmlgiant is like a bovine kept pregnant just for the milk
I read from the bottom up, and was like “why is everyone name calling?” and “I hope people don’t actually hate each other!” and “I’m sad because I want people to be friends.”
And then I remembered it was Mean Monday. Fuck everyone.
Epic comment section win for another Tao Lin post.
I read from the bottom up, and was like “why is everyone name calling?” and “I hope people don’t actually hate each other!” and “I’m sad because I want people to be friends.”
And then I remembered it was Mean Monday. Fuck everyone.
Epic comment section win for another Tao Lin post.
apparently i can no longer stop checking htmlgiant when i leave work if i want to stay up on this kind of good shit.
apparently i can no longer stop checking htmlgiant when i leave work if i want to stay up on this kind of good shit.
ryan,
you should check htmlgiant every 10 minutes from your cellular pda/phone thing.
every one should do this.
come hang out with the cool kids.
ryan,
you should check htmlgiant every 10 minutes from your cellular pda/phone thing.
every one should do this.
come hang out with the cool kids.
sweet jeebus this comment thread exploded
can mean monday extend into, like, mean thanksgiving week this week or something?
sweet jeebus this comment thread exploded
can mean monday extend into, like, mean thanksgiving week this week or something?
i like that idea.
THANKSGIVING MEAN
i like that idea.
THANKSGIVING MEAN
everyone here is retarded.
i quit this project.
everyone here is retarded.
i quit this project.
jereme-
i’ll work on it.
or not. we’ll see.
jereme-
i’ll work on it.
or not. we’ll see.
jereme is the new ‘mean editor’
why we tried to have mean week w/o him i don’t know
jereme is the new ‘mean editor’
why we tried to have mean week w/o him i don’t know
madore,
thank you for quitting this project.
madore,
thank you for quitting this project.
jereme: lol
jereme: lol
jereme: lol
jereme: lol
i am ready to make the final comment on this post
i just stared at this box for a few seconds, words are not coming to me in my time of need, i feel pressure
i guess i will say http://muumuuhouse.com
i am ready to make the final comment on this post
i just stared at this box for a few seconds, words are not coming to me in my time of need, i feel pressure
i guess i will say http://muumuuhouse.com
final comment
final comment
at least tao is consistent.
promotions to the day he dies.
at least tao is consistent.
promotions to the day he dies.