I Like __ A Lot
i 1/2 like CAMUS a lot
i have read THE FALL and THE MYTH OF SISYPHUS and i liked THE FALL but not THE MYTH OF SISYPHUS. THE FALL makes me uncomfortable to read. i like it when i feel uncomfortable. when reading THE FALL, i often think things like, “if this person were real, i would be annoyed but probably not say anything because i wouldn’t know what to say and i would just sit there and listen, like i am doing with this book.” THE FALL does that “here is a really thinly disguised book of philosophy outlined in a social situation” thing but i didn’t feel aggravation or even like i should accidentally spill something on it so i would not have to read it anymore. i did not enjoy reading THE MYTH OF SISYPHUS but i will not say anything else because if Camus finds out he will blog in a mean way about me and htmlgiant will fire me and spit on me all at once (that’s how htmlgiant fires people at meetings, a group spitting). in conclusion, Camus = 1/2 awesome.
Tags: camus, the fall, the myth of sisyphus
The Stranger greatly affected me. It’s one of 5 books that played an integral role in how I became.
The Stranger greatly affected me. It’s one of 5 books that played an integral role in how I became.
i just sat here thinking about how much i hate you while eating reduced fat ice cream with graham crackers crushed on top, it was really refreshing
i just sat here thinking about how much i hate you while eating reduced fat ice cream with graham crackers crushed on top, it was really refreshing
Blake you better be talkin to Sam I will UHHHHHHHH BOY I will whup your ass.
Blake you better be talkin to Sam I will UHHHHHHHH BOY I will whup your ass.
oh that was all sam.
but now i will get a 2nd bowl and think about you ken. in a palm trees shaking hands with tina turner.
That’s what we do in Los Angeles all day.
She has strong thighs.
oh that was all sam.
but now i will get a 2nd bowl and think about you ken. in a palm trees shaking hands with tina turner.
That’s what we do in Los Angeles all day.
She has strong thighs.
she has a massive V inside her V, its kind of amazing
she has a massive V inside her V, its kind of amazing
it seems impossible to hate someone while eating ice cream with graham crackers smashed on top, but it seems possible to hang my elderly uncle who is dying of cancer while doing it.
it seems impossible to hate someone while eating ice cream with graham crackers smashed on top, but it seems possible to hang my elderly uncle who is dying of cancer while doing it.
i like you sam
i think you should ‘try’ the stranger
i liked this post, thank you.
i like you sam
i think you should ‘try’ the stranger
i liked this post, thank you.
I like The Plague. Them’s some meaty good prose. Thick and juicy with just the right amount of spices.
I like The Plague. Them’s some meaty good prose. Thick and juicy with just the right amount of spices.
“it seems impossible to hate someone while eating ice cream with graham crackers smashed on top,”
true dat
“it seems impossible to hate someone while eating ice cream with graham crackers smashed on top,”
true dat
I finished ‘the stranger’ a few days ago and ‘the fall’ before that. Give ‘the stranger’ a shot.
I finished ‘the stranger’ a few days ago and ‘the fall’ before that. Give ‘the stranger’ a shot.
we have meetings?
brandon, i like you too. i was just thinking today, “i wonder if brandon ever asks people to call him ‘brando'”
barry, i am humping your wrist.
i think i read the first part of the plague at a bookstore and then i noticed i wanted to be outside so i went outside.
we have meetings?
brandon, i like you too. i was just thinking today, “i wonder if brandon ever asks people to call him ‘brando'”
barry, i am humping your wrist.
i think i read the first part of the plague at a bookstore and then i noticed i wanted to be outside so i went outside.
ryan call, blake handed out walkie talkies the first day and we have random meetings in the ballpit at a wendy’s in ohio.
ryan call, blake handed out walkie talkies the first day and we have random meetings in the ballpit at a wendy’s in ohio.
sam, everyone called me ‘brando’ in high school
my mom and her sister and most of her side of the family called me brando until they found out about me doing a lot of acid in my sophomore year of high school, now i do not get christmas gifts from any of them
maybe you should read THE STRANGE and THE PLAGUE and maybe you’d like camus 3/4
sam, everyone called me ‘brando’ in high school
my mom and her sister and most of her side of the family called me brando until they found out about me doing a lot of acid in my sophomore year of high school, now i do not get christmas gifts from any of them
maybe you should read THE STRANGE and THE PLAGUE and maybe you’d like camus 3/4
THE STRANGER*
THE STRANGER*
or maybe he won’t?
i like how ken baumann was in a movie named ‘whore’
and he looks like the ralph machio and bob sagget love child
‘family matters’ was a large influence on the shaping of the entity known as JEREME DEAN
or maybe he won’t?
i like how ken baumann was in a movie named ‘whore’
and he looks like the ralph machio and bob sagget love child
‘family matters’ was a large influence on the shaping of the entity known as JEREME DEAN
damn it
im going ot sleep
damn it
im going ot sleep
brando. acid. spidermans. ufos. leary’s.
ph, i would have to recalculate the fraction. right now, the only 100 % is whoever wrote the babysitter’s club.
jereme, i still watch family matters everyday and i am not joking. when i was younger, it subtly bothered me that they erased the middle child randomly.
brando. acid. spidermans. ufos. leary’s.
ph, i would have to recalculate the fraction. right now, the only 100 % is whoever wrote the babysitter’s club.
jereme, i still watch family matters everyday and i am not joking. when i was younger, it subtly bothered me that they erased the middle child randomly.
everywhere you go
everywhere you go
I’ve got to ask: why is it that so many of the posts on HTMLGIANT are written in a juvenile tone?
I don’t mean this as a slight. I’m honestly curious as to whether 1) it’s self-conscious and 2) intentional and, if so, 3) what the reason is behind it.
I’d guess all the contributors here are in their twenties, but many posts seem to adopt the voice someone much younger. It seems like a stylistic decision. Are you all part of some new literary “school?”
I hope I haven’t offended anyone. I’m intentionally leaving out any of my own reactions to the issue, because I just want to make sure that it’s something everyone acknowledges first.
I’ve got to ask: why is it that so many of the posts on HTMLGIANT are written in a juvenile tone?
I don’t mean this as a slight. I’m honestly curious as to whether 1) it’s self-conscious and 2) intentional and, if so, 3) what the reason is behind it.
I’d guess all the contributors here are in their twenties, but many posts seem to adopt the voice someone much younger. It seems like a stylistic decision. Are you all part of some new literary “school?”
I hope I haven’t offended anyone. I’m intentionally leaving out any of my own reactions to the issue, because I just want to make sure that it’s something everyone acknowledges first.
Oh, and I’m not referring to the dirty jokes, per se. The tone I’m talking about is most pronounced, in fact, when what is being discussed is serious or important to the author.
Oh, and I’m not referring to the dirty jokes, per se. The tone I’m talking about is most pronounced, in fact, when what is being discussed is serious or important to the author.
i talk in a juvenile tone because i am juvenile and get bored.
i’m like cyndie lauper and just want to have fun.
i don’t know about the other assholes.
i talk in a juvenile tone because i am juvenile and get bored.
i’m like cyndie lauper and just want to have fun.
i don’t know about the other assholes.
cindy lauper
i have no idea why i just spelled her name cyndie. i like it though. kind of like a cyborg indie lauper.
cindy lauper
i have no idea why i just spelled her name cyndie. i like it though. kind of like a cyborg indie lauper.
hi shya. i don’t think of it as adopting anything because i do not think the article out then decide how to make it sound juvenile. i think of it, myself, and basically htmlgiant as trying to make reading and discussing a less tedious thing. i don’t understand why, when given the chance to discuss reading and books, i would maintain the same dry, scholastic tone that dominates most discussion and ultimately communicates the same thing if not less. plus, i don’t consider anything serious. seriousness, literature, et cetera are all artifacts from a tedious and worthless tradition of elitist poop. than kyou for commenting, i did not feel offended. i am glad you read the article.
hi shya. i don’t think of it as adopting anything because i do not think the article out then decide how to make it sound juvenile. i think of it, myself, and basically htmlgiant as trying to make reading and discussing a less tedious thing. i don’t understand why, when given the chance to discuss reading and books, i would maintain the same dry, scholastic tone that dominates most discussion and ultimately communicates the same thing if not less. plus, i don’t consider anything serious. seriousness, literature, et cetera are all artifacts from a tedious and worthless tradition of elitist poop. than kyou for commenting, i did not feel offended. i am glad you read the article.
look at some of the past “serious” discussion that occurs here and on other blogs. it is ego driven petty masturbation. if i am not having fun then i will piss in the pool.
look at some of the past “serious” discussion that occurs here and on other blogs. it is ego driven petty masturbation. if i am not having fun then i will piss in the pool.
Well, I appreciate the spirit of what you’re saying, but you must admit that your goals could be achieved in many different ways; that is, tone avoidance could reasonably result in any tone but the one being avoided. So that doesn’t quite explain the particular voice many contributors/posts adopt.
Assuming your co-contributors agree with your statement above, there seems also to be some agreement–whether intentional/conscious or not–between you all about how best to accomplish it. Or what tone to adopt instead.
I admit that, in retrospect, the use of the word “juvenile” may not have been the best way to introduce the subject, because it’s a rather loaded word. What I mean to draw attention to is the very simple grammar, and preference for simple statements of basic emotions.
I hope I’m being clear. It would be much more difficult to describe this to someone who hasn’t experienced it for him/herself–though I will endeavor to do so if necessary–so I’m hoping that you all basically know what I’m talking about.
Well, I appreciate the spirit of what you’re saying, but you must admit that your goals could be achieved in many different ways; that is, tone avoidance could reasonably result in any tone but the one being avoided. So that doesn’t quite explain the particular voice many contributors/posts adopt.
Assuming your co-contributors agree with your statement above, there seems also to be some agreement–whether intentional/conscious or not–between you all about how best to accomplish it. Or what tone to adopt instead.
I admit that, in retrospect, the use of the word “juvenile” may not have been the best way to introduce the subject, because it’s a rather loaded word. What I mean to draw attention to is the very simple grammar, and preference for simple statements of basic emotions.
I hope I’m being clear. It would be much more difficult to describe this to someone who hasn’t experienced it for him/herself–though I will endeavor to do so if necessary–so I’m hoping that you all basically know what I’m talking about.
i am 100% clear on what you are saying. i can’t speak for the others, but this is the tone i am most comfortable with and feel best describes my feelings without having to resort to a language that only certain people can understand. also, i could say the tone you are describing is but one of many, and to legitimize any one of them would be random. i could accomplish this in many ways yes. for instance, i could post pictures. i could post a video. the internet allows for basically any style, which is the internet’s strength. it confuses me why someone would read these articles and then want them to be different. many times i find a certain tone on a website or publication and if i don’t like it i just put it down. thank you for talking to me. last night i was so lonely, i spilled a little spaghettis sauce on my arm and i didn’t even bother to clean it. you have made me happen by recognizing me. you would probably not like me though since i act like a juvenile in real life. it does not upset me that you think we are simple or juvenile. in fact, i agree. and i really like it. also, you are the winner of the first annual htmlgiant big ass hug contest. redeem your coupon whenever you’d like.
i am 100% clear on what you are saying. i can’t speak for the others, but this is the tone i am most comfortable with and feel best describes my feelings without having to resort to a language that only certain people can understand. also, i could say the tone you are describing is but one of many, and to legitimize any one of them would be random. i could accomplish this in many ways yes. for instance, i could post pictures. i could post a video. the internet allows for basically any style, which is the internet’s strength. it confuses me why someone would read these articles and then want them to be different. many times i find a certain tone on a website or publication and if i don’t like it i just put it down. thank you for talking to me. last night i was so lonely, i spilled a little spaghettis sauce on my arm and i didn’t even bother to clean it. you have made me happen by recognizing me. you would probably not like me though since i act like a juvenile in real life. it does not upset me that you think we are simple or juvenile. in fact, i agree. and i really like it. also, you are the winner of the first annual htmlgiant big ass hug contest. redeem your coupon whenever you’d like.
happen=happy
happen=happy
I think there is a nice variety in tone here. We all have different voices…I like the diversity.
I do hope that other contributors chime in, because part of what led to my query is that rather than it being an isolated instance or contributor, there seems to have been broad adoption of this tone. Or is it that you’ve all been friends for a long time, and have developed a degree of homogeneity as a result?
Anyway, to your statement of confusion above (which, again, is perfectly illustrative of the tone we’re discussing): I’m not wanting the posts here to be different. I come to HMTLGIANT knowing exactly what I’m going to get. Very rarely am I disappointed or surprised.
I do hope that other contributors chime in, because part of what led to my query is that rather than it being an isolated instance or contributor, there seems to have been broad adoption of this tone. Or is it that you’ve all been friends for a long time, and have developed a degree of homogeneity as a result?
Anyway, to your statement of confusion above (which, again, is perfectly illustrative of the tone we’re discussing): I’m not wanting the posts here to be different. I come to HMTLGIANT knowing exactly what I’m going to get. Very rarely am I disappointed or surprised.
what is the significance of your statement then if you like it? this seems to be typical literary passive aggressive criticism. when i eat an orange, i don’t say, “you seem to have adopted the taste of an orange, why is that?” have you read any of the creative work of anyone here? it is all completely different. don’t worry, none of us will win any important awards. everything is safe. you have convinced everyone that we are juvenile. there is a reason you have commented. what is the reason. i won’t be offended. do you think we all joined together and then became similar or we were of similar mindsets and so came together?
quite frankly who cares how the others feel about sam’s tone or my tone or pr’s tone or etc.
blake is the editor.
i have not been told to act differently by the editor.
this is his musical kids. i’m just singing off key in it.
what is the significance of your statement then if you like it? this seems to be typical literary passive aggressive criticism. when i eat an orange, i don’t say, “you seem to have adopted the taste of an orange, why is that?” have you read any of the creative work of anyone here? it is all completely different. don’t worry, none of us will win any important awards. everything is safe. you have convinced everyone that we are juvenile. there is a reason you have commented. what is the reason. i won’t be offended. do you think we all joined together and then became similar or we were of similar mindsets and so came together?
quite frankly who cares how the others feel about sam’s tone or my tone or pr’s tone or etc.
blake is the editor.
i have not been told to act differently by the editor.
this is his musical kids. i’m just singing off key in it.
jereme, i see you have adopted a tone. do discuss.
jereme, i see you have adopted a tone. do discuss.
oh jesus christ. here we go again with the ‘elite friends network’
“people are water and will form to the vessel.” – some really smart samurai dude who was beheaded with honor
i apologize for even entertaining this. i like to stay away from this kind of fruitless discussion. but for some reason i am really angry lately.
oh jesus christ. here we go again with the ‘elite friends network’
“people are water and will form to the vessel.” – some really smart samurai dude who was beheaded with honor
i apologize for even entertaining this. i like to stay away from this kind of fruitless discussion. but for some reason i am really angry lately.
i am a contributor, shya, but i don’t think my tone is anything like pink’s, or jimmy’s or justin’s or jereme’s. i guess you don’t agree that there is a diversity of tone that maybe you are missing? Read Justin’s post on being an editor and what those responsibilties are, jereme’s post on hagakure or Jimmy’s post on Howard’s End. Also, I don’t think my post on contemporary press or the excerpt i posted of kafka had any juvenile tone. Nor my piece on Matthew G. Lewis, for that matter.
I have never met any of the other contributors and love them all. I love Sam Pink earnest writing. He writes from his heart. SAM! Don’t be angry. I heart you.
And I reiterate- the mix of voices is a strength. I do think we have a lot of fun here and I am very grateful for that. And while that fun can be juvenile, i find it refreshing and I guess you do too? Cause I see you here a lot. Also, I am very much not in my 20s.
it’s all over. we have been uncovered. we are all just blake butler’s different blogspot profiles. he created us all.
it’s all over. we have been uncovered. we are all just blake butler’s different blogspot profiles. he created us all.
i will not discuss my tone. i’ll reiterate past statements though.
HTML GIANT is like the A-Team
There is angry B.A. Barracus, the smarmy but good looking Face, the crazy and fun Murdock, the dashing cigar burning Hannibal, the crucial three some of women(i forge their names), that hispanic guy later on in the seasons and a slew of others.
Team cohesion follows this model. Haven’t you watched ‘it’s always sunny in philadelphia’?
the real issue here, shya, is our ‘tone’ doesn’t fit in your closed minded view. Yes their are other ways to achieve goals.
Shel Silverstein wrote poetry.
Charles Bukowski wrote poetry.
Lorca wrote poetry.
Whitman wrote poetry.
Only some one of great self importance would be so arrogant to pick one of those authors as the true and right path to the goal.
i will not discuss my tone. i’ll reiterate past statements though.
HTML GIANT is like the A-Team
There is angry B.A. Barracus, the smarmy but good looking Face, the crazy and fun Murdock, the dashing cigar burning Hannibal, the crucial three some of women(i forge their names), that hispanic guy later on in the seasons and a slew of others.
Team cohesion follows this model. Haven’t you watched ‘it’s always sunny in philadelphia’?
the real issue here, shya, is our ‘tone’ doesn’t fit in your closed minded view. Yes their are other ways to achieve goals.
Shel Silverstein wrote poetry.
Charles Bukowski wrote poetry.
Lorca wrote poetry.
Whitman wrote poetry.
Only some one of great self importance would be so arrogant to pick one of those authors as the true and right path to the goal.
Hmmm. I guess made a mistake by thinking this could be discussed without it spiraling down into insults. Because I predict that any further defense of my initial reasons for bringing the issue up would serve to further the opinion that I’m close-minded and arrogant, I’ll cease and desist.
Actually, I can’t resist point out first, PR, that both Sam and Jereme at least acknowledged that there is an overriding tone to many (not all, as I’ve said – you can find all kinds of exceptions if that’s what you want to do) of the posts here. Sam is “100%” aware, while Jereme agrees implicitly just above while calling me “close minded.”
I maintain that there is some kind of shared tone. And I think it’s notable. And “okay” to talk about. It’s also notable, I’d say, that when raised, the issue makes some of you uncomfortable. Never did I say that I didn’t like what’s going on here. The fact is, I’ve recommended this site to a fair number of people. But part of what makes it interesting is the “voice” that PR is so set on denying.
Well, I guess I didn’t cease and desist.
Hmmm. I guess made a mistake by thinking this could be discussed without it spiraling down into insults. Because I predict that any further defense of my initial reasons for bringing the issue up would serve to further the opinion that I’m close-minded and arrogant, I’ll cease and desist.
Actually, I can’t resist point out first, PR, that both Sam and Jereme at least acknowledged that there is an overriding tone to many (not all, as I’ve said – you can find all kinds of exceptions if that’s what you want to do) of the posts here. Sam is “100%” aware, while Jereme agrees implicitly just above while calling me “close minded.”
I maintain that there is some kind of shared tone. And I think it’s notable. And “okay” to talk about. It’s also notable, I’d say, that when raised, the issue makes some of you uncomfortable. Never did I say that I didn’t like what’s going on here. The fact is, I’ve recommended this site to a fair number of people. But part of what makes it interesting is the “voice” that PR is so set on denying.
Well, I guess I didn’t cease and desist.
I don’t feel set on denying anything, Shya. I just don’t agree. I also find some hostility to your posts, but perhaps I am misunderstanding you? I hope so.
I guess all I can say is that I feel differently than you, and that doesn’t make me uncomfortable, but I thought I’d let you know my difference of opinion.
shya, thank you for posting. who is uncomfortable? all i asked you, which you still have not answered, is, why you feel the need to acknowledge a similarity in tone, while using words like “homogeneity,” and then claim that you like it? you are being passive. tell us what you think.
shya, thank you for posting. who is uncomfortable? all i asked you, which you still have not answered, is, why you feel the need to acknowledge a similarity in tone, while using words like “homogeneity,” and then claim that you like it? you are being passive. tell us what you think.
okay shya. i take every thing back.
you are not arrogant. you are not closed minded.
let’s discuss.
there is definitely a tone.
now what is your point?
what are you searching for in your original question? what is your motivation here?
okay shya. i take every thing back.
you are not arrogant. you are not closed minded.
let’s discuss.
there is definitely a tone.
now what is your point?
what are you searching for in your original question? what is your motivation here?
man shya is good. he has jedi mind skills. i almost thought i might have misread what he wrote and was being silly and over reactive.
shya said
“Are you all part of some new literary “school?”
I hope I haven’t offended anyone. I’m intentionally leaving out any of my own reactions to the issue, because I just want to make sure that it’s something everyone acknowledges first.”
i like it when people are offensive and then do the smug apology thing and take no responsibility for their offensiveness.
don’t act so cute. it is okay. say what you want to say. we are not your mother. no need to be passive aggressive with us.
man shya is good. he has jedi mind skills. i almost thought i might have misread what he wrote and was being silly and over reactive.
shya said
“Are you all part of some new literary “school?”
I hope I haven’t offended anyone. I’m intentionally leaving out any of my own reactions to the issue, because I just want to make sure that it’s something everyone acknowledges first.”
i like it when people are offensive and then do the smug apology thing and take no responsibility for their offensiveness.
don’t act so cute. it is okay. say what you want to say. we are not your mother. no need to be passive aggressive with us.
Yeah, Jereme, I thought I felt some hostility, but like I said, I could be wrong and I hope so. But you picked out some choice quotes there.
Also, while the comment section gets very fun and juvenile, I think there is a great variety to the tones of posts and to the voices of the contributors. But I am the only one here who thinks that and that is OK with me. We can agree to disagree on that.
Unfortunately, I have to leave the house in a minute, so this will likely be insufficient–I just want to warn you of my imminent silence. But very briefly: I’ve noticed a certain tone in much recent web fiction, poetry, and blogging recently, which I first noticed when encountering Tao Lin, but have since realized describes a much broader effort, and which is in evidence on HTMLGIANT fairly consistently. It’s main attributes seem to be simple grammar, the expression of rudimentary emotion, and in the fiction/poetry, a fascination with fantastic images, often animals. It might be described as a kind of Primitivism a la Gauguin, with emphasis being placed on bold, impressionistic language–basically, broad strokes–and a built-in skepticism of “civilized” or “academic” artistic poses.
As I said, I do like it. I’ve seen several examples of this around–on Juked, say, or much of what Bear Parade publishes–that have been entertaining and insightful and fun. But I also think it has limitations.
Academic language, while often completely self-indulgent and pointless, more or less organically developed in an effort to get at (or invent, I suppose, depending on your perspective) some of the more nuanced complexities of thought and expression. Therefor, I tend to prefer this “Primitivism” more when used in fiction/poetry than in exposition, where the “broad strokes” are, well, limiting.
That said, I’m open to the possibility that it is I who am limited. Which is why I asked about this generally, hoping that someone would offer a fair appraisal of the benefits of such a tone, before offering my own thoughts on the matter. Which approach has obviously backfired a bit.
Unfortunately, I have to leave the house in a minute, so this will likely be insufficient–I just want to warn you of my imminent silence. But very briefly: I’ve noticed a certain tone in much recent web fiction, poetry, and blogging recently, which I first noticed when encountering Tao Lin, but have since realized describes a much broader effort, and which is in evidence on HTMLGIANT fairly consistently. It’s main attributes seem to be simple grammar, the expression of rudimentary emotion, and in the fiction/poetry, a fascination with fantastic images, often animals. It might be described as a kind of Primitivism a la Gauguin, with emphasis being placed on bold, impressionistic language–basically, broad strokes–and a built-in skepticism of “civilized” or “academic” artistic poses.
As I said, I do like it. I’ve seen several examples of this around–on Juked, say, or much of what Bear Parade publishes–that have been entertaining and insightful and fun. But I also think it has limitations.
Academic language, while often completely self-indulgent and pointless, more or less organically developed in an effort to get at (or invent, I suppose, depending on your perspective) some of the more nuanced complexities of thought and expression. Therefor, I tend to prefer this “Primitivism” more when used in fiction/poetry than in exposition, where the “broad strokes” are, well, limiting.
That said, I’m open to the possibility that it is I who am limited. Which is why I asked about this generally, hoping that someone would offer a fair appraisal of the benefits of such a tone, before offering my own thoughts on the matter. Which approach has obviously backfired a bit.
simple answer, w/o reading all of what has been said: html giant is gross and retarded because there are enough sticks up our asses in this world to build a tree house from which we can see peter on the cloud. the lit world is full of enough serious. we are maybe the serious unserious. and i am tired.
i like to think of htmlgiant, and my own self in life life, as a mix of the brain of an 8 yr old and an 80 yr old.
fun is fun?
simple answer, w/o reading all of what has been said: html giant is gross and retarded because there are enough sticks up our asses in this world to build a tree house from which we can see peter on the cloud. the lit world is full of enough serious. we are maybe the serious unserious. and i am tired.
i like to think of htmlgiant, and my own self in life life, as a mix of the brain of an 8 yr old and an 80 yr old.
fun is fun?
once further: people spend too much time thinking about how they are going to say what they are going to say instead of just saying the fucking thing already. ‘tone’ is overrated. furthermore i think it is a mistake to compare the way someone writes in a blog to how they write their own ‘work’. i think if you explored the ‘work’ of many of the people who write hear, you’d find something a bit more scattered than a ‘scene’ by commonality. if there is an ‘scene’ i think it is by converging energy rather than by common interest (though there is definitely some kind of aesthetic grouping you can refer to, i don’t think it is contained herein at htmlgiant as much as in other centers, and having read a lot of the work of the Bloggers here, including myself, i can say distinctly that even the majority of it does not fit in the ‘gaugin’ ‘tone’.)
i hope i don’t come off seeming disgruntled here. just clarifying. i welcome the discussion, though i may not say anything else myself, because it is what it is.
once further: people spend too much time thinking about how they are going to say what they are going to say instead of just saying the fucking thing already. ‘tone’ is overrated. furthermore i think it is a mistake to compare the way someone writes in a blog to how they write their own ‘work’. i think if you explored the ‘work’ of many of the people who write hear, you’d find something a bit more scattered than a ‘scene’ by commonality. if there is an ‘scene’ i think it is by converging energy rather than by common interest (though there is definitely some kind of aesthetic grouping you can refer to, i don’t think it is contained herein at htmlgiant as much as in other centers, and having read a lot of the work of the Bloggers here, including myself, i can say distinctly that even the majority of it does not fit in the ‘gaugin’ ‘tone’.)
i hope i don’t come off seeming disgruntled here. just clarifying. i welcome the discussion, though i may not say anything else myself, because it is what it is.
i keep thinking ‘has shya ever seen a non-maternal vagina’ after reading his last comment.
hey i think there are too many letter Es in my name.
JEREME
crazy
i keep thinking ‘has shya ever seen a non-maternal vagina’ after reading his last comment.
hey i think there are too many letter Es in my name.
JEREME
crazy
I think Blake, that he is refering only to the posts here at htmlgiant, not our other work. But like I said now too many times probably, I just don’t agree. Jimmy has such a distinct voice- so does everyone to me- and tone is a big part of that voice, so I don’t agree that their is a common tone to the posts. But I am not “set on denying” anything. It’s just my opinion. Also, while Shya seems to claim enjoying some “primitive” fiction and poetry, i think he states that it is limited way to discuss literature itself. I guess I just don’t think that is an issue here- discussions vary wildly here is how I see it. But I am sadly alone with that opinion.
Am I still allowed to act like a retard in the comments section? I don’t think I act like one in my posts, though. But man- it’s fun to be an ass here-
JEEREEEMEEE. Too many ees.
hellz yeah pr.
retard it up!
hellz yeah pr.
retard it up!
i dont think you are limited shya. i think your list of evidence is pretty right, i guess. i do think there is an overall ‘converging energy’ here that blake refers to (i say that instead of ‘tone’ because i do think our tone varies from contributor to contributor), but i havent really thought about it until you posted your question, or if i did think about it, i was usually thinking like, ‘oh here is a tone.’
if i had to think about it seriously, which im trying to do now, here is what i would say in response to your 2:47pm comment:
the broad strokes are limiting, sure, just like the academic language is limiting. i am someone who reads a lot of comp/pedagogy stuff during the day (hi barry) and thinks about ‘important’ and ‘serious’ academic things that will help me teach freshman comp and stuff. a lot of that language is more specific and allows me to figure out complicated things, but also it really hurts my head after a while.
i like posting on htmlgiant because i can drop all of that and just say what i feel. it is relaxing. it lets me think in a different way. so it may look limiting, and perhaps it does limit the possiblity that a post of mine could get at some complex emotional response i have to some fiction or something, but it is freeing for me to write this way. and it is freeing for me to read other posts like this.
this doesnt mean i cant think that way, or cant write that way. or others of us here cant think or write that way. if we did, i dont think posting such an essay on HTMLGIANT would sort of fit, if that makes sense. we’d be better of sending a paper like that to RCF or something like that. also, maybe this will change in the futre? i dont know.
my thoughts, anyhow. i am going to press ‘submit comment.’
i dont think you are limited shya. i think your list of evidence is pretty right, i guess. i do think there is an overall ‘converging energy’ here that blake refers to (i say that instead of ‘tone’ because i do think our tone varies from contributor to contributor), but i havent really thought about it until you posted your question, or if i did think about it, i was usually thinking like, ‘oh here is a tone.’
if i had to think about it seriously, which im trying to do now, here is what i would say in response to your 2:47pm comment:
the broad strokes are limiting, sure, just like the academic language is limiting. i am someone who reads a lot of comp/pedagogy stuff during the day (hi barry) and thinks about ‘important’ and ‘serious’ academic things that will help me teach freshman comp and stuff. a lot of that language is more specific and allows me to figure out complicated things, but also it really hurts my head after a while.
i like posting on htmlgiant because i can drop all of that and just say what i feel. it is relaxing. it lets me think in a different way. so it may look limiting, and perhaps it does limit the possiblity that a post of mine could get at some complex emotional response i have to some fiction or something, but it is freeing for me to write this way. and it is freeing for me to read other posts like this.
this doesnt mean i cant think that way, or cant write that way. or others of us here cant think or write that way. if we did, i dont think posting such an essay on HTMLGIANT would sort of fit, if that makes sense. we’d be better of sending a paper like that to RCF or something like that. also, maybe this will change in the futre? i dont know.
my thoughts, anyhow. i am going to press ‘submit comment.’
“(i say that instead of ‘tone’ because i do think our tone varies from contributor to contributor), ”
thanks for being the only one to agree with me, ryan. i think even my posts vary in tone from post to post, but that is another discussion.
shya: i am not a contributor here, but i will try to make an honest attempt at discussing your concern.
also, a lot of things here are just joking around/having fun/trying to provoke. i am only focusing on your concern w/r/t sincere discussion (i’m not sure that’s the right phrase, but i hope it gets my meaning across)
1) i think that it is true that in certain publications, certain types of voices and stories are more prevalent. this seems really obvious, because editors have certain tastes and will publish things accordingly. this site is not a journal, and i assume the contributors don’t need to go through blake to make their posts, so there is a little more openness to what gets published here. still, all of the contributors are chosen because the editor likes what they do and his taste and aesthetics largely define the range of content. likewise, the people that come here and comment probably also have similar aesthetics. this is too reductive and i am not saying there is no variation, just pointing out the obvious.
because
2) the html giant people are not the main people in literature today. the people writing and written about here probably do form a kind of niche based on similar interests and influences. there are lots of other niches and prevalent styles and tones if you look for them.
3) the aesthetic you mention, i think, is often very nice. i don’t think anyone has argued that a direct and simple tone is the only appropriate one, but it certainly has advantages in many instances. for example, it can be nice to try to be as clear as possible so that the strangeness or power or profundity of what is being said can be conveyed with a neat precision.
in short stories, i think a childlike or naive tone can be used to create a sense of guilelessness that makes the telling feel truer and the events more impactful. i also personally get annoyed at really overwritten work where i feel like i can see the author proudly and smugly producing ‘beautiful’ fiction. this is a reaction against decadence. what you call ‘juvenile’ might be as easily called ‘minimalist’.
in criticism/non-fiction, i think that such a tone has also is a way of getting at honesty insofar as it is saying, ‘look, i am simply trying to say what i am meaning in a conversational manner, as i am thinking it’. it is a tacit admission of the fact that the writing is on a blog, is not authoritative, and is simply a personal opinion. it opens itself to approachability.
in these ways, the tone you describe could maybe be considered in light of metafiction, in that the tone is saying often, ‘hey, ok, i’m the author and i’m a flawed thinker and you should remember that and hopefully respond to me’ because often more academic tones have a dogmatic/programmatic quality that is less inviting for conversation and less open about their subjective nature. which isn’t to say they don’t have their place, it’s just to say that writing a comment on a blog is a way different venture than writing for a peer-reviewed journal and probably benefits from different tonal strategies.
that last paragraph was more or less directly addressed to your critique in your second to last paragraph. i guess maybe i’m saying that forum language is more conversational/searching/ambivalent because it needs to be for the rapid and amorphous nature of a blog or comments section. i do think that people here often try to make their points precisely and specifically and they cite specific texts, but at the same time the purpose is less to prove theories than to open and engage others in actively working through thoughts. later many of us might well take those thoughts and work them carefully into essays, but don’t have the time to do that when people are commenting back and forth several times per hour. so instead of pretending they’ve worked everything out perfectly, people write conversationally and simply about their initial reactions and less-than-fully formed intuitions about the subjects that arise.
i am sure that other people have a different read than i do, but maybe that is a little bit helpful.
shya: i am not a contributor here, but i will try to make an honest attempt at discussing your concern.
also, a lot of things here are just joking around/having fun/trying to provoke. i am only focusing on your concern w/r/t sincere discussion (i’m not sure that’s the right phrase, but i hope it gets my meaning across)
1) i think that it is true that in certain publications, certain types of voices and stories are more prevalent. this seems really obvious, because editors have certain tastes and will publish things accordingly. this site is not a journal, and i assume the contributors don’t need to go through blake to make their posts, so there is a little more openness to what gets published here. still, all of the contributors are chosen because the editor likes what they do and his taste and aesthetics largely define the range of content. likewise, the people that come here and comment probably also have similar aesthetics. this is too reductive and i am not saying there is no variation, just pointing out the obvious.
because
2) the html giant people are not the main people in literature today. the people writing and written about here probably do form a kind of niche based on similar interests and influences. there are lots of other niches and prevalent styles and tones if you look for them.
3) the aesthetic you mention, i think, is often very nice. i don’t think anyone has argued that a direct and simple tone is the only appropriate one, but it certainly has advantages in many instances. for example, it can be nice to try to be as clear as possible so that the strangeness or power or profundity of what is being said can be conveyed with a neat precision.
in short stories, i think a childlike or naive tone can be used to create a sense of guilelessness that makes the telling feel truer and the events more impactful. i also personally get annoyed at really overwritten work where i feel like i can see the author proudly and smugly producing ‘beautiful’ fiction. this is a reaction against decadence. what you call ‘juvenile’ might be as easily called ‘minimalist’.
in criticism/non-fiction, i think that such a tone has also is a way of getting at honesty insofar as it is saying, ‘look, i am simply trying to say what i am meaning in a conversational manner, as i am thinking it’. it is a tacit admission of the fact that the writing is on a blog, is not authoritative, and is simply a personal opinion. it opens itself to approachability.
in these ways, the tone you describe could maybe be considered in light of metafiction, in that the tone is saying often, ‘hey, ok, i’m the author and i’m a flawed thinker and you should remember that and hopefully respond to me’ because often more academic tones have a dogmatic/programmatic quality that is less inviting for conversation and less open about their subjective nature. which isn’t to say they don’t have their place, it’s just to say that writing a comment on a blog is a way different venture than writing for a peer-reviewed journal and probably benefits from different tonal strategies.
that last paragraph was more or less directly addressed to your critique in your second to last paragraph. i guess maybe i’m saying that forum language is more conversational/searching/ambivalent because it needs to be for the rapid and amorphous nature of a blog or comments section. i do think that people here often try to make their points precisely and specifically and they cite specific texts, but at the same time the purpose is less to prove theories than to open and engage others in actively working through thoughts. later many of us might well take those thoughts and work them carefully into essays, but don’t have the time to do that when people are commenting back and forth several times per hour. so instead of pretending they’ve worked everything out perfectly, people write conversationally and simply about their initial reactions and less-than-fully formed intuitions about the subjects that arise.
i am sure that other people have a different read than i do, but maybe that is a little bit helpful.
whoa..a bunch of replies happened before i finished writing that. i guess that proves my point that the nature of the forum really discourages taking the time to write out lengthy or essay-like explanations of thought.
whoa..a bunch of replies happened before i finished writing that. i guess that proves my point that the nature of the forum really discourages taking the time to write out lengthy or essay-like explanations of thought.
Having read your work, Blake, I simply don’t believe that you think tone is overrated. It’s probably the foremost element of your prose (as opposed to, say, plot or character). And I admire your work; in fact, I admire the work of many HTMLGIANT contributors, and I’d say the same thing about a lot of it: there’s a general concern with tone and voice. Which is sort of why I expected there to have already been some thought put into this tone that is so often used.
Anyway, I’m happy I’ve come up with this “primitivism” comparison, which I think is apt. Maybe I’ll write up some kind of essay about it and publish it in Harper’s.
Having read your work, Blake, I simply don’t believe that you think tone is overrated. It’s probably the foremost element of your prose (as opposed to, say, plot or character). And I admire your work; in fact, I admire the work of many HTMLGIANT contributors, and I’d say the same thing about a lot of it: there’s a general concern with tone and voice. Which is sort of why I expected there to have already been some thought put into this tone that is so often used.
Anyway, I’m happy I’ve come up with this “primitivism” comparison, which I think is apt. Maybe I’ll write up some kind of essay about it and publish it in Harper’s.
Ryan and Ben, thank you for your earnest responses. You’ve both given me something to think about.
Ryan and Ben, thank you for your earnest responses. You’ve both given me something to think about.
I don’t have an opinion one way or another on this matter – I think there’s room for all kinds of voices and I think it’s a mistake to place value over one particular style than another given the many, many contexts that exist. I think it might be fun to see more of this kind of exploration. I don’t know. I didn’t detect any hostility in Shya’s original question – it seemed like an honest question. I’ve noticed what Shya is talking about, sometimes here, sometimes elsewhere – a lot of (for lack of better words) new minimalism/surrealism? I don’t think anything needs to be labeled, but seems useful to pin down what I think Shya is talking about. I think it’s cool, but yeah, I’ve noticed it too, so I don’t think it’s something unfair to ask about.
I don’t have an opinion one way or another on this matter – I think there’s room for all kinds of voices and I think it’s a mistake to place value over one particular style than another given the many, many contexts that exist. I think it might be fun to see more of this kind of exploration. I don’t know. I didn’t detect any hostility in Shya’s original question – it seemed like an honest question. I’ve noticed what Shya is talking about, sometimes here, sometimes elsewhere – a lot of (for lack of better words) new minimalism/surrealism? I don’t think anything needs to be labeled, but seems useful to pin down what I think Shya is talking about. I think it’s cool, but yeah, I’ve noticed it too, so I don’t think it’s something unfair to ask about.
ben,
yes. i thought what you wrote was obvious and not needing a protracted explanation.
matt,
i think the passive-aggressive ‘tone’ of the original comment is patent.
a question can be posed many ways. shya’s particular wording was searching for a defensive response.
ben,
yes. i thought what you wrote was obvious and not needing a protracted explanation.
matt,
i think the passive-aggressive ‘tone’ of the original comment is patent.
a question can be posed many ways. shya’s particular wording was searching for a defensive response.
ben,
i forget to add ‘thank you for taking the time to write out what others did not.’
thanks
ben,
i forget to add ‘thank you for taking the time to write out what others did not.’
thanks
Jereme – I didn’t read it that way, but clearly it touched a nerve, so since I’m not on the receiving end of the question, maybe I’m not reading it in the same way that you did.
Jereme – I didn’t read it that way, but clearly it touched a nerve, so since I’m not on the receiving end of the question, maybe I’m not reading it in the same way that you did.
“the html giant people are not the main people in literature today.”
SAM PINK is not the “main people in literature”?
“the html giant people are not the main people in literature today.”
SAM PINK is not the “main people in literature”?
i don’t mean at all that they aren’t doing great work or aren’t notable, just that they aren’t the super famous people we see in the new yorker and harpers etc.
they aren’t js foer, or murakami, or salman rushdie, or ben marcus or brian evenson or george saunders. that was all men. they aren’t lydia davis or zadie smith or aimee bender either.
sorry i’m being too earnest and literal i think.
i probably should have written: who is sam pink? oops. i am bad at the internet.
i don’t mean at all that they aren’t doing great work or aren’t notable, just that they aren’t the super famous people we see in the new yorker and harpers etc.
they aren’t js foer, or murakami, or salman rushdie, or ben marcus or brian evenson or george saunders. that was all men. they aren’t lydia davis or zadie smith or aimee bender either.
sorry i’m being too earnest and literal i think.
i probably should have written: who is sam pink? oops. i am bad at the internet.
matt,
actually it didn’t really bother me. i deal with people like shya all the time in the IT world where i work.
i only spoke up because sam weakened and responded.
getting sam pissed off is hard. so i reread the comment and thought ‘yeah he is being passive aggressive and silly’
and melee ensued!
matt,
actually it didn’t really bother me. i deal with people like shya all the time in the IT world where i work.
i only spoke up because sam weakened and responded.
getting sam pissed off is hard. so i reread the comment and thought ‘yeah he is being passive aggressive and silly’
and melee ensued!
I got plenty of shallow, trite shit written at the third grade level in the bear parade inbox when we accepted submissions. I also got some really deep, well-written things that I could have read and understood with a very basic understanding of English. I really appreciate simple, well-written things. Obviously.
I think Shya’s right to point out that it’s a style that’s commonly overused. I get annoyed by it when it’s done poorly. And since it’s so easy to attempt, it’s done poorly often.
It’s not a relevant criticism of this blog, however. The style that we’re discussing is easily employed, especially on a blog (which is where it probably comes from), and it’s useful when trying to post things regularly, which is why people use it here.
I see it as shorthand, not some sort of anti-academic tone-hating front.
I got plenty of shallow, trite shit written at the third grade level in the bear parade inbox when we accepted submissions. I also got some really deep, well-written things that I could have read and understood with a very basic understanding of English. I really appreciate simple, well-written things. Obviously.
I think Shya’s right to point out that it’s a style that’s commonly overused. I get annoyed by it when it’s done poorly. And since it’s so easy to attempt, it’s done poorly often.
It’s not a relevant criticism of this blog, however. The style that we’re discussing is easily employed, especially on a blog (which is where it probably comes from), and it’s useful when trying to post things regularly, which is why people use it here.
I see it as shorthand, not some sort of anti-academic tone-hating front.
god i hate the internet
;)
THIS IS A BLOG
god i hate the internet
;)
THIS IS A BLOG
i think the internet needs to become a forest where i can go look at at leaves all day instead of this screen
i think the internet needs to become a forest where i can go look at at leaves all day instead of this screen
let’s all have a game of ‘dildo tag’.
i will own you all.
let’s all have a game of ‘dildo tag’.
i will own you all.
i feel too high stress this month to effectively respond to comments.
i have been broken up with because of my ‘tone’ before, in speaking
i think i hate tone
this site has a tone that is all over the place i think, but it comes together in spots. there are people like sam who post minimally saying what sound like autistic children blogging. there is jimmy who is about as anti-flat in tone as you could imagine. justin is a really funny mix of high brow and bizarre. i mainly post news and columns except when i feel like a cunt. etc etc
everyone has a thing i think and i guess when i saw the ‘everyone blogs like tao here’-esque comment, i thought it was reductive and kind of ‘from a corner’, and against the will of this site
that doesnt mean i thought ‘shya is a dick’ or ‘i don’t like shya’ but mainly that i am confused by the amount of criticism a blog meant to ‘spread the word’ receives. again, not you shya in particular, but in various other forms that in some ways have made me want to say ‘fuck this website’ but then 10 minutes later i have forgotten about it
i think when i said ‘tone is overrated’ i meant ‘bring it’ i meant ‘i hate polish in blog’
that’s polish like lysol, not like sausages
sausage is also overrated
i like colorful blogging, i like a bit of a mess, and i like a variety of people who are hyped on sometimes similar, sometimes completely disparate shit.
i dont know
life is life
i feel too high stress this month to effectively respond to comments.
i have been broken up with because of my ‘tone’ before, in speaking
i think i hate tone
this site has a tone that is all over the place i think, but it comes together in spots. there are people like sam who post minimally saying what sound like autistic children blogging. there is jimmy who is about as anti-flat in tone as you could imagine. justin is a really funny mix of high brow and bizarre. i mainly post news and columns except when i feel like a cunt. etc etc
everyone has a thing i think and i guess when i saw the ‘everyone blogs like tao here’-esque comment, i thought it was reductive and kind of ‘from a corner’, and against the will of this site
that doesnt mean i thought ‘shya is a dick’ or ‘i don’t like shya’ but mainly that i am confused by the amount of criticism a blog meant to ‘spread the word’ receives. again, not you shya in particular, but in various other forms that in some ways have made me want to say ‘fuck this website’ but then 10 minutes later i have forgotten about it
i think when i said ‘tone is overrated’ i meant ‘bring it’ i meant ‘i hate polish in blog’
that’s polish like lysol, not like sausages
sausage is also overrated
i like colorful blogging, i like a bit of a mess, and i like a variety of people who are hyped on sometimes similar, sometimes completely disparate shit.
i dont know
life is life
god this site is making feel me insane
god this site is making feel me insane
Blake, thanks for this. I too think that this blog actually really encompasses- in its posts- a seriously disparate amount of voices, interests and tones. The comment section often- but not always- does digress into great fun and juvenile stuff. Which I really really love. But I just don’t feel that way about the posts. And that was the point I was trying to make. I honestly feel that just as many posts are earnest as are funny, so I wanted to respectfully disagree. I wasn’t insisting on denying anything. It sounds like Ryan agreed with me on that, too– in regard to each contributor really having a unique voice. I just really think that. And like I said, I think it is a real strength here.
jesus christ blake. this shit was relevant like 6 hours ago.
now the sun is gone and adult beverages exist to be consumed.
now lets get naked and play dildo tag.
jesus christ blake. this shit was relevant like 6 hours ago.
now the sun is gone and adult beverages exist to be consumed.
now lets get naked and play dildo tag.
it looks like blake needs a back rub
jereme, be a good friend and give him a back rub
it looks like blake needs a back rub
jereme, be a good friend and give him a back rub
jereme: does everyone need their own dildo or is there one dildo always held by ‘it’?
also, blake: it’s too easy to get mad at things that spread the word when the word doesn’t include you enough. i like that this site exists and that there are people who like to talk about lit. that they care about. in real life mostly i hear kids standing outside my window yelling about who called who a fag first. this is because i live across the street from a large vocational high school. it’s kind of like html giant except nobody ever talks about gordon lish.
jereme: does everyone need their own dildo or is there one dildo always held by ‘it’?
also, blake: it’s too easy to get mad at things that spread the word when the word doesn’t include you enough. i like that this site exists and that there are people who like to talk about lit. that they care about. in real life mostly i hear kids standing outside my window yelling about who called who a fag first. this is because i live across the street from a large vocational high school. it’s kind of like html giant except nobody ever talks about gordon lish.
i don’t think not being included was one of shya’s motivators
one of my first posts on the site was about his ‘poolsaid’ which is an incredible piece of work
http://www.theliteraryreview.org/chaps/Scanlon_Shya_51_4.pdf
i like shya and his work
future comments will no longer be paid attention to, cuz fun is fun.
i don’t think not being included was one of shya’s motivators
one of my first posts on the site was about his ‘poolsaid’ which is an incredible piece of work
http://www.theliteraryreview.org/chaps/Scanlon_Shya_51_4.pdf
i like shya and his work
future comments will no longer be paid attention to, cuz fun is fun.
is there a way we can give ben an award for this?
“in real life mostly i hear kids standing outside my window yelling about who called who a fag first. this is because i live across the street from a large vocational high school. it’s kind of like html giant except nobody ever talks about gordon lish.”
i laughed at my computer screen because of that
out and about
later
is there a way we can give ben an award for this?
“in real life mostly i hear kids standing outside my window yelling about who called who a fag first. this is because i live across the street from a large vocational high school. it’s kind of like html giant except nobody ever talks about gordon lish.”
i laughed at my computer screen because of that
out and about
later
ben,
we each have a dildo. you get smacked with a dildo and you are out.
chaotic dildo smack tag begins now!
i already smacked blake upside his head with my dildo. he is out for this round.
ben,
we each have a dildo. you get smacked with a dildo and you are out.
chaotic dildo smack tag begins now!
i already smacked blake upside his head with my dildo. he is out for this round.
http://www.coldbacon.com/writing/sontag-againstinterpretation.html
http://www.coldbacon.com/writing/sontag-againstinterpretation.html
ben:
“i don’t mean at all that they aren’t doing great work or aren’t notable, just that they aren’t the super famous people we see in the new yorker and harpers etc.”
i was just fucking around man, i feel ya.
ben:
“i don’t mean at all that they aren’t doing great work or aren’t notable, just that they aren’t the super famous people we see in the new yorker and harpers etc.”
i was just fucking around man, i feel ya.
ken- great link. thanks-i read her book on illness a while back when i was ill. she’s sort of great.
ken- great link. thanks-i read her book on illness a while back when i was ill. she’s sort of great.
[…] The Fall [Camus]: Also a bunch a yelling, and one-dimensional tone, like Portnoy’s Complaint but not funny. [Again, Pink] […]