Author Spotlight
Drought Resistant Strain: A Conversation With Mather Schneider
Mather Schneider’s Drought Resistant Strain is now available from Interior Noise Press. We had a great e-mail conversation about his writing, his attitude and much more.
I have to ask. Intentionally or not, you were a pretty polarizing figure on HTMLGIANT, and have been accused of being overly negative. Do you agree with the characterization? Do you think of yourself as a contrarian? How do you feel about being the only person who has ever been banned? Would you like to return to the HTMLGIANT community and if so, why?
If I see something that bothers me, like unthinking pc happy face rhetoric, frat boy backslapping, hyperbolic praise, etc. I negate it. Pretentiousness bothers me a lot, like when someone expects to be admired for getting out of bed and eating a bowl of frosties. And hypocrisy bothers me too. I have seen Blake Butler use basically the same tactics in commenting that they kicked me off for. Essentially a rude jokster tactic that refuses to take the conversation seriously. I have a negative side yes, but I have a positive side too. Most of the people who accuse me of being a contrarian only know a small part of me. As you can see from my poetry I am not all negative.
I am not sure I am the only one who has been banned from HTML GIANT. It would not surprise me if others had been banned but not many people knew about it. Either way, yes it bothers me to be banned when I have seen so many others making what I consider much worse comments than I ever made. I have been threatened by people on the net a few times, and that’s something I would never do. I also do not call people “cunts” or shit like that, which I have been called many times. In fact one guy on HTML GIANT said he was going to burn my house down, but I’m sure he’s still allowed to comment, ha ha! You stood up for me on HTML GIANT and I appreciate that. And if you’re willing to post this on there, you must know you’re going to get some backlash for it, and I respect that.
Funny thing is, just the other day Blake Butler wrote me this:
this is an open invitation for you to send a post of any nature to HTMLGIANT, to be published on the site. we will publish anything you write, about us, or anything else you like, unedited, as long as there’s no pornpics in it. if you’re game, send along whenever. thanks much.
we’re not offering you a position. we’re giving you the opportunity to post anything you want to say. one post, because it would be fun to let you say whatever you want. you’re still banned. but you can say anything in the spirit of saying and we’ll post it. call it an experiment. up to you.”
I told him no thanks. I do not covet acceptance into the HTMLGIANT crowd. I like the energy there and the enthusiasm, but the arrogance and smugness get to me on almost every post. And no matter how good a point you make, you are outnumbered. The herd mentality on that site is unbelievable. Probably because most of them are very young.
You say that pretentiousness bothers you, but isn’t that a subjective judgment? Why do you feel the need to address that sort of thing? Does it ever seem futile?
All judgements are subjective. I feel the need to address it because it is annoying, it is bullshit, and much pretentiousness has been directed at me personally. Yes, it seems futile most every minute of every day. You can’t change people just by criticizing them, by calling them pretentious or anything else. They just get pissed. I don’t know. If I feel someone is pretentious, I am going to say it. It seems there is a lot of subjectivity even concerning the definition of this word. To me it means the quality some people have where they expect to be rewarded, admired, etc. in a way that far outweighs their accomplishments.
Is Mather Schneider your real name? I’ve always wondered about that.
Mather Thomas Schneider is my real name, on my birth certificate. To use all three names seemed too precious, so I dropped the Thomas about 15 years ago. If I was going to make up a name I would have invented one that rolls off the tongue a little easier. Mather, or Mathers, is a fairly common last name and my parents turned it into a first name. No big story behind it. Some people call me Matt, my Mexican girlfriend me llama Mateo. I have found there are two different kinds of people in America: people who immediately think of Jerry Mathers from Leave it to Beaver, or people who think of Cotton Mather, the notorious Puritan witchburner. No relation to either.
I really enjoyed Drought Resistant Strain. I’m a pretty hard sell for poetry but I’ve read your book a few times now and your poetry is really interesting. I found the subjects you take up quite relatable. The word that often came to mind as I read your book was “accessible.” I know some people see that as a negative judgment but to my mind, I feel like your book gives the reader access to the lives you’re detailing in each poem. How do you feel about the idea of accessible poetry? Would you agree that your work is accessible?
Thank you, Roxane, I’m glad you enjoyed it. I’m a hard sell for poetry myself. I don’t consider “accessible” to be negative at all. I consider my poetry accessible. I consider all good poetry accessible. I hate intellectual/academic word play simply for the sake of word play. I hate puzzles and false mystery. I prefer Raymond Carver to David Foster Wallace, no contest. I write to tell stories and to touch people. I write for everybody. I want people to understand me.
I meant that I want people to understand what I’m writing. I don’t want people to understand me, personally. Sometimes I feel misunderstood but sometimes I think people understand me just fine, on that level. But again, that’s not what I meant. I meant simply I want people to understand my written English. I read a lot of poetry that seems like a different language.
Why the title Drought Resistant Strain? That title feels a bit incongruous with the poetry in this collection and yet, the title intrigues me.
The title was a struggle. I didn’t want to simply lift a title from an individual poem, though I have done that before. I also didn’t want my title to sound like any other book title, I didn’t want it to sound like Bukowski or Raymond Carver or anyone else. I live in the desert, and so there is that theme running through the whole book, and several poems about plants and nature and weather. I also like the connotations of toughness and perseverence. The word “strain” also has multiple meanings that I like. It also relates to the fact that I am 40 years old and am only now getting a full length book out. Trust me, the feeling is much sweeter than it would have been at 24.
How did you assemble this collection? What kind of shape did you want this book to have?
I sent about 200 poems from the last 12 years to David Bates at Interior Noise Press. He whittled down his favorites into the 90 poems or so in the book. I agreed to the choices. I didn’t think too much about the shape of the book, I just wanted it to be readable and strong all the way through. It is not a book of connected poems, but I think that’s ok.
I found that these poems are personal and yet they aren’t, that there’s a certain emotional distance, that these poems are written with, perhaps what might best be termed, an omniscience. How much of your work is autobiographical and is that distance intentional?
I do not try for emotional distance, in fact I try for just the opposite, emotional immediacy, so your statement disheartens me a little. But I understand what you are saying, I think. Many of the poems in this book are in the past tense, and some of them from the very distant past. “Omniscience” is a word I don’t use and never even think about when writing. Much of my work is autobiographical, but many of my stories come to me second hand, but always from the mouths of real people. I do not like writing about photographs or something I’ve read in some newspaper or history book.
I read somewhere that you’re a cab driver. Do you enjoy that work? Is driving a cab at all like it seems on Taxicab Confessions? What’s the strangest thing a passenger has confessed to you?
I’ve never seen that show. People do tell me incredibly personal details and I’m never quite sure why. If a person has to work, I don’t mind driving a taxi. The strangest cab trip I ever had didn’t really involve a confession, per se. I picked up a guy who claimed to be a Mexican gangster. I believed him and still believe him to this day. He had a pistol which he brought out of his coat and put on the seat beside him. He made me drive him around for 4 hours, going to certain places on the Mexican side of town, apparently collecting protection money. Finally he paid me and let me go. He even tipped me, though not much. He told me if I ever told anyone about him he would find me. It scared me shitless. But after a few years I finally wrote a story about it which has been rejected a few times.
I cannot help but notice that several poems involve sex workers and that there was a real… empathy in how you depicted these working girls. Do you have a fondness for whores? Why do sex workers make for such interesting literary fodder?
I was single for many years and had my share of experiences with prostitutes. I don’t have a particular fondness for them, no, but some of them have interesting stories. It’s a different lifestyle, not something you hear about everyday. Yes I have empathy for them, I have empathy for a lot of people, and I think empathy and compassion are important in the best poetry.
Of the “sex worker” poems, I loved Sharon the most because it so perfectly captured the empathy I allude to in the previous question and because even though this poem is telling the story of an aging hooker, I think it also tells the story of an aging woman–those struggles are pretty universal regardless of how you earn a living. As a man, do you find it challenging to write about women authentically? Where does such insight come from?
Thank you very much. The story of Sharon is true, though that’s not her real name. I write about women the same as I do about men, we are not so different deep down. Of course the superficial differences are there and funny sometimes. I just try to write honestly about the interesting people I meet or hear about. Sharon was one of those. I try to make all of my poems as universal as possible, and am glad that this one seemed to work that way for you, because it doesn’t matter what she did for a living, or even that she was a woman, what matters is that she was a human being struggling and suffering. Say what you want about whores but you can’t deny they suffer.
Your poetry has a really strong narrative quality. Do you think of yourself as a storyteller?
Yes I think of myself as a storyteller. I do get lyrical sometimes, dreamy, but less and less as time goes on. I think the story is what’s most important, the meat of reality, the movement and conflict, I think that’s what grabs people and makes people remember it. I think real life stories, strange stories but believable stories, strike a lot deeper and last a lot longer than ethereal boogy-woogies or solipsistic caterwauling. I think metaphor and all literary device should be subordinate to the story. I feel this way about poetry and prose both.
Arizona is a really interesting place given its proximity to the Mexican border and having lived there, I distinctly remember the tensions of living in a borderland. In several of the poems in Drought Resistant Strain, you start to get at some of these tensions. How much does place influence your work? As a white man, how do you negotiate those borderland tensions in your poetry?
Tucson has really gotten into my poetry more and more, the landscape and the Mexican influence. The border tension never really got to me much until I started dating my Mexican girlfriend. I am not a political writer but if I can allude to a larger political situation in a personal story, I think that adds to the universality of the poem. As a white man I have been mostly insulated from these things, but with my girlfriend now I am suddenly in the middle of it. I have learned Spanish too, which has been very difficult but rewarding, though I am not completely fluent yet.
Another theme I picked up in your poetry are these portraits of interesting, elderly people like the poem “Old Gene,” being rolled in and out of the bar where you write He lives right across the street/from the bar/and he’s got a pretty good thing going/if you don’t think about it too much. Where do those poems come from?
Those poems come from my life. The story of Gene is completely true. I drank with him many times. He’s dead now. Rest his soul.
I’m melancholy and happy and many other things depending on a million daily factors. Predominately I am happy, I think. Who knows? I didn’t mean to seem obsessed with my age. It’s just a fact.
How has your writing changed as you’ve gotten older?
I think it has gotten clearer and richer, with more real detail, and more outward looking. I’ve learned to show and not to tell. I can recognize bullshit quicker, meaning derivative stuff, showboating, cliche, superiority, in my own writing and others. When I was younger I had spirit but no stories. My poetry was weak, watery and full of my own ego. I tried to write a novel like Tom Robbins, I tried to write a novel like Charles Bukowski, I tried to write a novel like J.D. Salinger. I didn’t learn until much later to listen to other people in
You are pretty widely published and your bio never seems to be the same. Do you come up with something different every time you’re asked to summarize your accomplishments for a biographical note?
I change my bio every once in a while, but I’m still me. I assume you’re talking about the net bios. Even in the short time I’ve been on the net I’ve grown, moved and changed. Over all I’ve had about 500 poems and prose pieces published in over 350 places for 17 years now. I’ve had different jobs, girlfriends, etc. That’s a strange question.
Speaking of your prolificness, how do you maintain such a high creative output both in terms of quality and quantity? What is your writing process?
I thank you for that but I don’t think I am prolific at all. It’s just that I am 40 years old and have been writing for a long time. Currently I only write on my days off from work, probably two days a week. I sit down in the morning and I drink coffee, then beer, and I brainstorm on my typewriter. I work from memory or from notes, many of which I’ve scribbled in the middle of the night or during the day on the backs of our taxi company business cards. Then I let a stack of poems build up and age for a month or so. Then I look them over again and take the poems I think have the most potential, and put them in the computer. Then I work them for a week or two, usually working a file of 20 poems or so at the same time, just reading them over and over again, looking for bullshit to delete or places to tighten or expand. And that’s it. I write a lot of crap that never sees the light of day. And sometimes I send out crap, and sometimes it gets published.
When I’m writing, I often imagine a soundtrack to a given piece. What songs would complement Drought Resistant Strain?
I generally listen to classical music when I write because there are no words to influence my left brain. I never thought about what song would complement my book. I think someone else would have to decide that. I do like the blues, Bob Dylan, Tom Waits, Patsy Cline and Johnny Cash.
My favorite poem (if I have to pick just one) is Hot Iron. What are three of your favorite pieces in this collection? Why?
Thank you again. Hot Iron is one of my favorites. It is really hard for me to say what my ultimate favorite is, because that changes with my mood. I think ME AND JOSIE GO TO THE ZOO is probably my favorite, right now. It was published in River Styx. I like it because it came together very easily and has some good lines, graceful metaphor and a easy flow, if I do say so myself. It came from a true tenderness I feel for my girlfriend combined with the feeling I always have of insecurity, and even of the necessity of accepting insecurity as a fact of life. The ending is fictional but I don’t think it seems forced. I also like YOU CAN’T GET AWAY FROM NATURE for the humor of it and THE BELL for its social commentary. I write a lot about the jobs I’ve had and being a collection agent was easily the worst one.
What’s next for Mather Schneider?
New York Quarterly Press is going to publish a book of my poems either this fall or next spring. I have already sent Raymond Hammond a manuscript and we will start whittling it and perfecting it sometime soon, I hope. It will be new poems, poems that I kept out of Drought Resistant Strain and poems that I have written since then. It will be heavy on narrative, cab driving poems and I think it will be a very good book. I am excited as hell about it.
My other goal is to publish more fiction and a book of stories. I have written many stories but have not pushed them on the market as feverishly, but I think I have some quality stories that will find homes and I think a book is likely some day. I hope so.
Other than that, just keep writing and submitting and fighting with the lit-nazis. I write a critical column for Girls With Insurance as you know. That is every three weeks and it gives me a place to vent.
What do you love most about your writing?
I love the alone time. I love getting a beer buzz and letting my soul flow. I love it when people tell me they like my stuff. Who doesn’t? I love feeling like I am growing as a writer and not stuck or complacent. I am not romantic about writing and I don’t think of it as an overly spiritual thing and I am no zen monk. But it is an activity that taps into your whole brain, or it should be, and that is the challenge and the reward. It is the easiest and the hardest thing in the world to do. But it’s fun. I can’t explain it. You understand.
htmlgiant is the only website i can think of that would publish an interview of its greatest and most disrespectful dissenter; this is why blake is an awesome and generous person. i find it hypocritical, mather, that you would grant us (c/o Roxane) your thoughts, having so dismissed this venue. htmlgiant is not smug, it’s democratic. when you comment like a dick, you get treated like one.
i know, mather, you’re just going to say blake’s crew is coming out of the woodwork to defend him, but this is why you’re mistaken — i made up my own thoughts about blake based on his actions (no complicity or secret frat handshake, we’ve exchanged like 6 emails ever), like i make up my own thoughts about everyone based on their actions (verbal, or otherwise), and my aggregate impression of blake is “dude, fire, fire, yes,” and you, “sigh, another angry man.”
i hope you can learn to respect all of us, and the time, love, and effort we put into this public, free venture
htmlgiant is the only website i can think of that would publish an interview of its greatest and most disrespectful dissenter; this is why blake is an awesome and generous person. i find it hypocritical, mather, that you would grant us (c/o Roxane) your thoughts, having so dismissed this venue. htmlgiant is not smug, it’s democratic. when you comment like a dick, you get treated like one.
i know, mather, you’re just going to say blake’s crew is coming out of the woodwork to defend him, but this is why you’re mistaken — i made up my own thoughts about blake based on his actions (no complicity or secret frat handshake, we’ve exchanged like 6 emails ever), like i make up my own thoughts about everyone based on their actions (verbal, or otherwise), and my aggregate impression of blake is “dude, fire, fire, yes,” and you, “sigh, another angry man.”
i hope you can learn to respect all of us, and the time, love, and effort we put into this public, free venture
I really enjoyed reading this interview. Thanks!
I really enjoyed reading this interview. Thanks!
I’m interested in reading some of Mather’s writing, and I’m going to go seek it out. Thanks for doing this interview, Roxane.
I still think Mather is an arrogant dickhead, but there’s a place in my heart for arrogant dickheads.
I’m interested in reading some of Mather’s writing, and I’m going to go seek it out. Thanks for doing this interview, Roxane.
I still think Mather is an arrogant dickhead, but there’s a place in my heart for arrogant dickheads.
I don’t like the word “pretentious.”
I don’t like the word “pretentious.”
i don’t know. this leaves a bad taste in my mouth. not the interview itself, but what brought it about in the first place.
is it okay to raise awareness of your writing by consistently lashing out at everyone else who receives attention, whether warranted or not? it’s like seeking fame through assassination. there’s nothing noble in that.
are a writer’s opinions more valid because they’ve spent forty years plodding around the planet? age isn’t wisdom–and in this case, it sure as hell isn’t maturity, either.
i don’t know. this leaves a bad taste in my mouth. not the interview itself, but what brought it about in the first place.
is it okay to raise awareness of your writing by consistently lashing out at everyone else who receives attention, whether warranted or not? it’s like seeking fame through assassination. there’s nothing noble in that.
are a writer’s opinions more valid because they’ve spent forty years plodding around the planet? age isn’t wisdom–and in this case, it sure as hell isn’t maturity, either.
I was really surprised by the book. I even told Mather I didn’t expect to like his writing but there you go, that stranger thing happened.
I was really surprised by the book. I even told Mather I didn’t expect to like his writing but there you go, that stranger thing happened.
how pretentious of you! (jk, seriously : )
how pretentious of you! (jk, seriously : )
Of course, Mather could respond to your comments and queries if he wasn’t “banned.”
Of course, Mather could respond to your comments and queries if he wasn’t “banned.”
httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVV_HXtEbLo
httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVV_HXtEbLo
Just got out of bed, eating bowl of frosties.
Just got out of bed, eating bowl of frosties.
just ate a big fuckin’ burger with cheese, and some fries, because i’m sad, sort of.
just ate a big fuckin’ burger with cheese, and some fries, because i’m sad, sort of.
even when he comments like a dick, not everyone treats him like a dick
but, yay Jimmy!
yay, everybody!
even when he comments like a dick, not everyone treats him like a dick
but, yay Jimmy!
yay, everybody!
me too. everyone simultaneaously calls other things pretentiousness while they themselves are pretentious based on someone else’s semantics. we are all always pretending to be the thing we want to be in hopes that we eventually become the thing. should it even carry a negative connotation? its lazy to synonymize pretentiousness with inaccessible or intellectual. for me, pretentiousness is in the wording of this question…
I found that these poems are personal and yet they aren’t, that there’s a certain emotional distance, that these poems are written with, perhaps what might best be termed, an omniscience. How much of your work is autobiographical and is that distance intentional?
…pretending to sound more intelligent than simply asking the root question: How much of your work is autobiographical?
i dont think anyone thinks ‘accessible’ in and of itself is a negative value. there are too many vectors that determine whether a person likes a work of fiction to say any one aspect even tends to be positive or negative. I have enjoyed accessible works and i have enjoyed inaccessible works.
when anyone calls anything pretentious, think about exactly what you are saying, what is *pretending* to be what and why, and is it bad?
me too. everyone simultaneaously calls other things pretentiousness while they themselves are pretentious based on someone else’s semantics. we are all always pretending to be the thing we want to be in hopes that we eventually become the thing. should it even carry a negative connotation? its lazy to synonymize pretentiousness with inaccessible or intellectual. for me, pretentiousness is in the wording of this question…
I found that these poems are personal and yet they aren’t, that there’s a certain emotional distance, that these poems are written with, perhaps what might best be termed, an omniscience. How much of your work is autobiographical and is that distance intentional?
…pretending to sound more intelligent than simply asking the root question: How much of your work is autobiographical?
i dont think anyone thinks ‘accessible’ in and of itself is a negative value. there are too many vectors that determine whether a person likes a work of fiction to say any one aspect even tends to be positive or negative. I have enjoyed accessible works and i have enjoyed inaccessible works.
when anyone calls anything pretentious, think about exactly what you are saying, what is *pretending* to be what and why, and is it bad?
Drought Resistant Strain (9) Thursday, 01 April 2010 17:19 Mather Schneider
A man likes the look of his own website like he likes the smell of his own farts. If you ever went to HTML GIANT and thought “something stinks around here”, it was Gene Morgan’s anal vapor. Gene Morgan is the leader of the pack of snot-faced lit-zits that percolate over at the “internet literature magazine blog of the future”. If you visit HTML GIANT you will notice threads sometimes of a hundred comments or more, filled with clever bundles of pretentious I-just-had-a-latte-with-my-professor bullshit, grab-ass chuckle fests, self marketing gone mad, Manson-family sycophancy, debutantes, fingernail insults, bullying, pulseless academic snobbery, bales of anonymous snark and kewl hipster talk, but you will not see any comments from me because I have been banned. Maybe I eat too much garlic?
I wrote Gene Morgan the other day to ask him why I was banned. He wrote me back:
You were warned several times that you’d be banned. You repeated the behavior, and then you were banned. I don’t see how this is unfair.
If I farted in your face, and then you told me to not do it again or you’d stab me, it would be my fault that you stabbed me the next time I farted in your face.
Farting in your face,
Gene
*
Insulating himself from criticism is the rich man’s zen. One time this was posted on HTML GIANT: Should the commenter Mather Schneider be banned? The question got over 80 responses, and only two said to ban me. But if the boss doesn’t like you, pound sand.
I never heard of Gene Morgan until HTML GIANT. He’s got another website, too, another literary web site. It’s called “Bear Parade. Raaaar!” Oh, the inner child! Imagine Gene eating his Fruit Loops while propping up his false geniuses in online glory. The contents page of Bear Parade is Morgan’s list of 98 pound heavyweights, all of which are continually lauded on HTML GIANT, including Tao Lin, Zachary German and Tao Lin. I go to a piece randomly:
HIKIKOMORI by Ellen Kennedy and Tao Lin
Dear Tao,
Today I watched my ceiling fan spin for 6 hours.
Later I punched a hole in my tv to see how it worked. Inside were three hamsters walking slowly around a calculator. I feel smarter now.
Ellen.
dear ellen,
yesterday I hit my face with a stuffed animal for three hours until I was tired and then took a nap and then woke and hit my face with a stuffed animal for four more hours and went to sleep.
the stuffed animals were an alligator and a horse.
the horse was pink with a green head.
tao
*
Good poetry is an insane person trying to act sane; bad poetry is a sane person trying to act insane. Ellen and Tao are both sane and dull writers, but they’d like you to believe they are on the edge of their minds, creating art. You can’t believe a word they say. Who falls for this con besides tourists?
Another excerpt:
NOSFERATU by Noah Cicero
His feet keep walking.
A lonely night.
In a city that does not require a name…
The city has a McDonalds, Wal-Mart, several municipal parks, sewage, city-water, garbage men, coffee shops, several colleges, coffee shops, and even some poets. The city has obese women who sweat when it is hot outside, it has men who think their haircut is more important than commerce, and it has cats who shit in litter boxes and never know the touch of grass on their paws.
This is where Nosferatu walks.
Nosferatu wears a nice black suit and a bowler hat.
Nosferatu stops his feet.
Stands still.
Looks up at the moon.
The light shines down.
He concentrates on the beams.
He reaches up and grabs a beam.
The beam stays in his hand.
He brings it to his face and opens his hand.
The beam stays there swirling in a circle.
He then eats the moon beam and smiles.
*
Nosferatu? Gazzunhite! Cicero wipes his nose and thinks he’s invented a new archetype. Morgan seconds the notion. Did you catch that brilliant description of the urban landscape in the 21st century? Read it again for the “nuances”. It seems to me there’s sufficient emptiness in the lines themselves, but still there’s all that “breathing space” between them.
I wonder what kind of farts you get from eating moonbeams? I wonder what kind of farts you get from licking ass? Gene Morgan, if you keep putting no-talents on pedestals after I warn you not to, is it your fault when I stab you, right in your fat gut, and let the gas out that way?
——————————————————————————–
Mather Schneider is the author of Drought Resistant Strain.
Drought Resistant Strain (9) Thursday, 01 April 2010 17:19 Mather Schneider
A man likes the look of his own website like he likes the smell of his own farts. If you ever went to HTML GIANT and thought “something stinks around here”, it was Gene Morgan’s anal vapor. Gene Morgan is the leader of the pack of snot-faced lit-zits that percolate over at the “internet literature magazine blog of the future”. If you visit HTML GIANT you will notice threads sometimes of a hundred comments or more, filled with clever bundles of pretentious I-just-had-a-latte-with-my-professor bullshit, grab-ass chuckle fests, self marketing gone mad, Manson-family sycophancy, debutantes, fingernail insults, bullying, pulseless academic snobbery, bales of anonymous snark and kewl hipster talk, but you will not see any comments from me because I have been banned. Maybe I eat too much garlic?
I wrote Gene Morgan the other day to ask him why I was banned. He wrote me back:
You were warned several times that you’d be banned. You repeated the behavior, and then you were banned. I don’t see how this is unfair.
If I farted in your face, and then you told me to not do it again or you’d stab me, it would be my fault that you stabbed me the next time I farted in your face.
Farting in your face,
Gene
*
Insulating himself from criticism is the rich man’s zen. One time this was posted on HTML GIANT: Should the commenter Mather Schneider be banned? The question got over 80 responses, and only two said to ban me. But if the boss doesn’t like you, pound sand.
I never heard of Gene Morgan until HTML GIANT. He’s got another website, too, another literary web site. It’s called “Bear Parade. Raaaar!” Oh, the inner child! Imagine Gene eating his Fruit Loops while propping up his false geniuses in online glory. The contents page of Bear Parade is Morgan’s list of 98 pound heavyweights, all of which are continually lauded on HTML GIANT, including Tao Lin, Zachary German and Tao Lin. I go to a piece randomly:
HIKIKOMORI by Ellen Kennedy and Tao Lin
Dear Tao,
Today I watched my ceiling fan spin for 6 hours.
Later I punched a hole in my tv to see how it worked. Inside were three hamsters walking slowly around a calculator. I feel smarter now.
Ellen.
dear ellen,
yesterday I hit my face with a stuffed animal for three hours until I was tired and then took a nap and then woke and hit my face with a stuffed animal for four more hours and went to sleep.
the stuffed animals were an alligator and a horse.
the horse was pink with a green head.
tao
*
Good poetry is an insane person trying to act sane; bad poetry is a sane person trying to act insane. Ellen and Tao are both sane and dull writers, but they’d like you to believe they are on the edge of their minds, creating art. You can’t believe a word they say. Who falls for this con besides tourists?
Another excerpt:
NOSFERATU by Noah Cicero
His feet keep walking.
A lonely night.
In a city that does not require a name…
The city has a McDonalds, Wal-Mart, several municipal parks, sewage, city-water, garbage men, coffee shops, several colleges, coffee shops, and even some poets. The city has obese women who sweat when it is hot outside, it has men who think their haircut is more important than commerce, and it has cats who shit in litter boxes and never know the touch of grass on their paws.
This is where Nosferatu walks.
Nosferatu wears a nice black suit and a bowler hat.
Nosferatu stops his feet.
Stands still.
Looks up at the moon.
The light shines down.
He concentrates on the beams.
He reaches up and grabs a beam.
The beam stays in his hand.
He brings it to his face and opens his hand.
The beam stays there swirling in a circle.
He then eats the moon beam and smiles.
*
Nosferatu? Gazzunhite! Cicero wipes his nose and thinks he’s invented a new archetype. Morgan seconds the notion. Did you catch that brilliant description of the urban landscape in the 21st century? Read it again for the “nuances”. It seems to me there’s sufficient emptiness in the lines themselves, but still there’s all that “breathing space” between them.
I wonder what kind of farts you get from eating moonbeams? I wonder what kind of farts you get from licking ass? Gene Morgan, if you keep putting no-talents on pedestals after I warn you not to, is it your fault when I stab you, right in your fat gut, and let the gas out that way?
——————————————————————————–
Mather Schneider is the author of Drought Resistant Strain.
you make very nice points, darby, thanks. still wonder, though, what if someone’s “omniscience” or “non-autobiographical-ness” or “inaccessibility” is due to that person being “kind of an asshole” and “wanting to take a shit on the accessible people and/or on readers”? is that person pretentious?
you make very nice points, darby, thanks. still wonder, though, what if someone’s “omniscience” or “non-autobiographical-ness” or “inaccessibility” is due to that person being “kind of an asshole” and “wanting to take a shit on the accessible people and/or on readers”? is that person pretentious?
fuck mather schneider. jealousy + knee-jerk tendencies + inaccuracy + other things
fuck mather schneider. jealousy + knee-jerk tendencies + inaccuracy + other things
+ empty threats of violence. fuck mather schneider 2x.
+ empty threats of violence. fuck mather schneider 2x.
ehh he’s not so bad
ehh he’s not so bad
he doesn’t even make any sense. he’s just flailing around at random insulting people
he doesn’t even make any sense. he’s just flailing around at random insulting people
that mindframe doesnt make sense to me. no one decides to be inaccessible. no writer wants to take a shit on readers, or trick readers, or do anything to make readers hate them. writers always seek readers who are interested in their work. to say a writer is writing solely to take a shit on particular readers is insulting.
that mindframe doesnt make sense to me. no one decides to be inaccessible. no writer wants to take a shit on readers, or trick readers, or do anything to make readers hate them. writers always seek readers who are interested in their work. to say a writer is writing solely to take a shit on particular readers is insulting.
he wrote that article i posted on april 1st. april fools joke?!
he wrote that article i posted on april 1st. april fools joke?!
He is certainly a problematic personality but to dismiss him entirely and make the kind of comment you’ve made here is just as kneejerk as any comment he has ever made.
He is certainly a problematic personality but to dismiss him entirely and make the kind of comment you’ve made here is just as kneejerk as any comment he has ever made.
COME ON LET’S JUST GO FOR ANOTHER CHEESEBURGER I AM DOWN
COME ON LET’S JUST GO FOR ANOTHER CHEESEBURGER I AM DOWN
. httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVV_HXtEbLo
. httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVV_HXtEbLo
i don’t agree. i only used those harsh words because he isn’t even making an attempt to be “fair” for the reasons i alluded to (inaccuracy, the randomness of his insults, in all seriousness), and because he calls gene fat and threatens, of course only in words, to let the air out of him. kind of surprised you wouldn’t be more offended by direct, mean attacks on your webmaster or whatever, ‘roxane.’ to me “fuck [person’s name]” isn’t so much dismissing as it is standing up for gene, ellen, tao, and noah, none of whom deserves this fucking bullshit.
hilarious
i don’t agree. i only used those harsh words because he isn’t even making an attempt to be “fair” for the reasons i alluded to (inaccuracy, the randomness of his insults, in all seriousness), and because he calls gene fat and threatens, of course only in words, to let the air out of him. kind of surprised you wouldn’t be more offended by direct, mean attacks on your webmaster or whatever, ‘roxane.’ to me “fuck [person’s name]” isn’t so much dismissing as it is standing up for gene, ellen, tao, and noah, none of whom deserves this fucking bullshit.
hilarious
I don’t think Gene needs anyone to stand up for him. I talked to him about this post before I even put it up. If he’s on board, I suppose you’re kind of spitting in the wind.
I don’t think Gene needs anyone to stand up for him. I talked to him about this post before I even put it up. If he’s on board, I suppose you’re kind of spitting in the wind.
he sounds like a complete asshole, and he’s shitting on everyone here and this website ON THIS WEBSITE. maybe i should calmly, carefully consider his various attacks and his sour grapes and statements like “Gene Morgan, if you keep putting no-talents on pedestals after I warn you not to, is it your fault when I stab you, right in your fat gut, and let the gas out that way?” My first response to that is: Gene Morgan’s stated philosophy is against pedestals, so this ‘critique’ makes no sense.
he sounds like a complete asshole, and he’s shitting on everyone here and this website ON THIS WEBSITE. maybe i should calmly, carefully consider his various attacks and his sour grapes and statements like “Gene Morgan, if you keep putting no-talents on pedestals after I warn you not to, is it your fault when I stab you, right in your fat gut, and let the gas out that way?” My first response to that is: Gene Morgan’s stated philosophy is against pedestals, so this ‘critique’ makes no sense.
starting to wonder who ZZZZZIPP “actually” is.
starting to wonder who ZZZZZIPP “actually” is.
is spitting in the wind putting up 3 or 6 “mean-spirited, controversial blog posts” a day?
is spitting in the wind putting up 3 or 6 “mean-spirited, controversial blog posts” a day?
Ugh, I don’t really have a dog in this fight. On the previous post about the GWI post, I noted I found it sad, and I stand by that but I do think there’s more to Schneider than his assholishness. I’m sorry you aren’t taking the time to learn about that.
Ugh, I don’t really have a dog in this fight. On the previous post about the GWI post, I noted I found it sad, and I stand by that but I do think there’s more to Schneider than his assholishness. I’m sorry you aren’t taking the time to learn about that.
tallcat
tallcat
i’m reacting to the post from mather schneider, which was an april’s fools joke har har? or was not, more likely. i’m not terribly interested in the asshole’s book, no matter how great it may be, but i’m not responding to your actual post.
i’m reacting to the post from mather schneider, which was an april’s fools joke har har? or was not, more likely. i’m not terribly interested in the asshole’s book, no matter how great it may be, but i’m not responding to your actual post.
_Man_, I don’t care about the Mather v. Giant crap everyone seems so keen on discussing here, rather than some of the more interesting elements that Mather actually says re: Roxanes line of questioning (great interview, btw, Roxane. I was thankful to see you hit-it-and-quit-it with the Mather v. Giant stuff and make quick with the word-love). Thank you, Darby, for trying to steer the convo in that direction. Can we talk about some words here? Damn.
I’ll probably check out his book because what Roxane said in her review of it at Big Other and Mather’s listed influences here pique my interest, but this “How do you feel about Mather?” stuff is tired, and I’d rather spend time phonetically spelling out the bleeps and bloops and squees and squoos in the cat vid Blake keeps posting. That shit made me laugh for reals. I mean. It’s just standing there.
WHEN ZZZZIPP WAS NINE HE GOT BANNED FROM RESPONDING ON A COMPUSERVE CHATROOM AND THAT REALLY HURT HIS FEELINGS. IT IS SORROW TO WATCH OTHERS CONTINUE TO SPEAK WHEN YOU CANNOT SAY ANYTHING.
i mean, roxane, i have no doubt that you always “mean well,” but most of your posts seem custom-designed to make someone feel bad, or to reprimand someone for not doing things the “proper way”
_Man_, I don’t care about the Mather v. Giant crap everyone seems so keen on discussing here, rather than some of the more interesting elements that Mather actually says re: Roxanes line of questioning (great interview, btw, Roxane. I was thankful to see you hit-it-and-quit-it with the Mather v. Giant stuff and make quick with the word-love). Thank you, Darby, for trying to steer the convo in that direction. Can we talk about some words here? Damn.
I’ll probably check out his book because what Roxane said in her review of it at Big Other and Mather’s listed influences here pique my interest, but this “How do you feel about Mather?” stuff is tired, and I’d rather spend time phonetically spelling out the bleeps and bloops and squees and squoos in the cat vid Blake keeps posting. That shit made me laugh for reals. I mean. It’s just standing there.
WHEN ZZZZIPP WAS NINE HE GOT BANNED FROM RESPONDING ON A COMPUSERVE CHATROOM AND THAT REALLY HURT HIS FEELINGS. IT IS SORROW TO WATCH OTHERS CONTINUE TO SPEAK WHEN YOU CANNOT SAY ANYTHING.
i mean, roxane, i have no doubt that you always “mean well,” but most of your posts seem custom-designed to make someone feel bad, or to reprimand someone for not doing things the “proper way”
yes. this whole, ‘see, you’re all wrong, he’s not such a bad guy afterall’ makes me cringe, as do most of roxane’s posts. there’s always this sense of her trying (pretending) to be above everyone. sutbly dictatorial that i am inclined to reflexively rebel against.
yes. this whole, ‘see, you’re all wrong, he’s not such a bad guy afterall’ makes me cringe, as do most of roxane’s posts. there’s always this sense of her trying (pretending) to be above everyone. sutbly dictatorial that i am inclined to reflexively rebel against.
Stephen, I’ll just have to disagree. I’m not mean-spirited and I kind of wonder how you can misconstrue “most of my posts” in such a manner. It’s about creating discussion. If you don’t like my posts you are welcome to not read them.
alright, that’s not -quite- fair. whatever, i’m sure you don’t care.
Stephen, I’ll just have to disagree. I’m not mean-spirited and I kind of wonder how you can misconstrue “most of my posts” in such a manner. It’s about creating discussion. If you don’t like my posts you are welcome to not read them.
alright, that’s not -quite- fair. whatever, i’m sure you don’t care.
Dictatorships work darby and if I said it was warm outside on an 80 degree day you would start shivering.
Dictatorships work darby and if I said it was warm outside on an 80 degree day you would start shivering.
let’s put it this way, i have yet to “enjoy” a roxane gay post, and there have been a lot of them. that in itself may sound mean-spirited, but i’m just being honest. that being said, who the fuck am i, right? har har har…
i just kind of object to giving “Fuckwad McGee” a microphone esp. if he does indeed say things like the quoted post in the comments here. and the only other specific post i can remember was something like “don’t get mad if you get rejected, you just need to be more good-er and wait your turn,” if i may be reductive, silly.
in spite of all i’ve said, i honestly, honestly intend no animosity. my only animosity is towards mather schneider if he “actually” wrote that post above in the comments
let’s put it this way, i have yet to “enjoy” a roxane gay post, and there have been a lot of them. that in itself may sound mean-spirited, but i’m just being honest. that being said, who the fuck am i, right? har har har…
i just kind of object to giving “Fuckwad McGee” a microphone esp. if he does indeed say things like the quoted post in the comments here. and the only other specific post i can remember was something like “don’t get mad if you get rejected, you just need to be more good-er and wait your turn,” if i may be reductive, silly.
in spite of all i’ve said, i honestly, honestly intend no animosity. my only animosity is towards mather schneider if he “actually” wrote that post above in the comments
roxane, you’ve been “bringing sunshine into our e-lives” for what, a couple weeks now? is this the Roxane Gay Dictatorship now? kind of feels like it, sadly
roxane, you’ve been “bringing sunshine into our e-lives” for what, a couple weeks now? is this the Roxane Gay Dictatorship now? kind of feels like it, sadly
ZZZZIPP DOESN’T UNDERSTAND WHAT IS GOING ON HERE.
Seven months or so, stephen. Sorry you feel that way. Best of luck with everything.
ZZZZIPP DOESN’T UNDERSTAND WHAT IS GOING ON HERE.
Seven months or so, stephen. Sorry you feel that way. Best of luck with everything.
are you fond of hookers?
are you fond of hookers?
well now i feel bad. remarkable restraint, roxane. i dont know, i just feel like, why you do you have to be so bossy? you’re obviously smart and have experience. i guess everyone’s personality is different, right? i mean, obviously, “constantly showing up everywhere with six comments that will not appeal to someone like, say, ‘roxane gay,'” might not be the most attractive personality either? see, i always make up, roxane, even if you hate me :)
well now i feel bad. remarkable restraint, roxane. i dont know, i just feel like, why you do you have to be so bossy? you’re obviously smart and have experience. i guess everyone’s personality is different, right? i mean, obviously, “constantly showing up everywhere with six comments that will not appeal to someone like, say, ‘roxane gay,'” might not be the most attractive personality either? see, i always make up, roxane, even if you hate me :)
I am bossy and opinionated and I don’t feel like I have to justify that. My personality isn’t for everyone and I’m okay with that because I’m old and i don’t care if you like me, not publicly anyway.
I am bossy and opinionated and I don’t feel like I have to justify that. My personality isn’t for everyone and I’m okay with that because I’m old and i don’t care if you like me, not publicly anyway.
word. i respect that. why not.
word. i respect that. why not.
that’s awesome. i like when his hand reaches up to like do something. we have a cat who fetches.
that’s awesome. i like when his hand reaches up to like do something. we have a cat who fetches.
well ok, i mean, i wouldn’t say any writer is “solely” doing any one thing. you’re probably right, most of the time, authors are writing with some audience vaguely in mind, and they “kind of” write for that audience, or at least intend for a “certain kind of reader” to read them. in your argument, you basically say that calling out a writer for being pretentious is itself pretentious, but that writers can’t “really” be pretentious, or it is hypocritical or imprecise and thus “wrong” for a reader to call a writer pretentious? that is confusing logic, to me, darby, if i’m understanding you…
well ok, i mean, i wouldn’t say any writer is “solely” doing any one thing. you’re probably right, most of the time, authors are writing with some audience vaguely in mind, and they “kind of” write for that audience, or at least intend for a “certain kind of reader” to read them. in your argument, you basically say that calling out a writer for being pretentious is itself pretentious, but that writers can’t “really” be pretentious, or it is hypocritical or imprecise and thus “wrong” for a reader to call a writer pretentious? that is confusing logic, to me, darby, if i’m understanding you…
Back to the interview.
That’s the interview. The one up there. Rather than the soap opera in the comments, about which I really couldn’t fucking well care less, because examining my own navel fluff is far more interesting than examining all yours.
I thought the interview was wonderful – both the questions and the responses. It’s rare, to be honest, that I can read to the end of most of the interviews on here without getting bored as the subject begins to disappear up their own ass with pretentiousness, but Mather seems genuine. I like what he said. Maybe it’s having a bit more age on his side than most of the people often featured here (or maybe it’s just that I’m two years away from being 40), but he seemed thoughtful, as well as able to take a step back from the literary hype that so often goes on. If his collection is able to be sent to the UK, I’d actually be interested in checking it out.
(Incidentally, I don’t have an encyclopaedic knowledge of the Mather Schneider ‘saga’ that’s gone on within this site – mainly because I have a life, a job, that kind of thing – so I’m basing these comments purely on what I read and then the intensely vituperative nature of many of the reactions that followed)
Back to the interview.
That’s the interview. The one up there. Rather than the soap opera in the comments, about which I really couldn’t fucking well care less, because examining my own navel fluff is far more interesting than examining all yours.
I thought the interview was wonderful – both the questions and the responses. It’s rare, to be honest, that I can read to the end of most of the interviews on here without getting bored as the subject begins to disappear up their own ass with pretentiousness, but Mather seems genuine. I like what he said. Maybe it’s having a bit more age on his side than most of the people often featured here (or maybe it’s just that I’m two years away from being 40), but he seemed thoughtful, as well as able to take a step back from the literary hype that so often goes on. If his collection is able to be sent to the UK, I’d actually be interested in checking it out.
(Incidentally, I don’t have an encyclopaedic knowledge of the Mather Schneider ‘saga’ that’s gone on within this site – mainly because I have a life, a job, that kind of thing – so I’m basing these comments purely on what I read and then the intensely vituperative nature of many of the reactions that followed)
thx 4 the thoughts, gramps. i have a job and a life too.
thx 4 the thoughts, gramps. i have a job and a life too.
looks up “vituperative,” it reads: “see: pretentious.” looks up “pretentious,” it reads: “dismissing everyone on a comments section because they aren’t fawning over the interview responses from a guy who shits all over everyone on a website and another website for no logical reason and then gets interviewed on the first website, after having been banned from that website from dismissing everyone on that website, probably because of their navel fluff-eating ways, all of which hasn’t been read by the dismisser as explained as part of his dismissal of people he isn’t familiar with and whom he is too mature and serious and important to take seriously.”
looks up “vituperative,” it reads: “see: pretentious.” looks up “pretentious,” it reads: “dismissing everyone on a comments section because they aren’t fawning over the interview responses from a guy who shits all over everyone on a website and another website for no logical reason and then gets interviewed on the first website, after having been banned from that website from dismissing everyone on that website, probably because of their navel fluff-eating ways, all of which hasn’t been read by the dismisser as explained as part of his dismissal of people he isn’t familiar with and whom he is too mature and serious and important to take seriously.”
starting to understand why people want to kill themselves
starting to understand why people want to kill themselves
‘pretentious’ is largely a put down that contended shitballs use to pull others down to shitball-dom with them. they have deluded themselves into thinking that they deserve nothing more than the average or mediocre, and they get frightened when another person respects herself enough to go balls out.
‘pretentious’ secretly mean ‘his willingness to challenge and potentially embarrass himself in the name of earnest self-development makes me feel insecure, and I want him to feel this way too.’ If anyone I know uses the word, instantly I try to distance myself from them.
‘pretentious’ is largely a put down that contended shitballs use to pull others down to shitball-dom with them. they have deluded themselves into thinking that they deserve nothing more than the average or mediocre, and they get frightened when another person respects herself enough to go balls out.
‘pretentious’ secretly mean ‘his willingness to challenge and potentially embarrass himself in the name of earnest self-development makes me feel insecure, and I want him to feel this way too.’ If anyone I know uses the word, instantly I try to distance myself from them.
“All judgements are subjective.”
I want to slap him. This CAN NOT be true. For better or worse (usually worse), there is an objective aspect to judgement.
This exact statement is the bedbug of our national thought. Let’s keep chanting to ourselves that all value judgements are subjective, we can blind ourselves from the intellectual shitheap that results with our splooge.
“All judgements are subjective.”
I want to slap him. This CAN NOT be true. For better or worse (usually worse), there is an objective aspect to judgement.
This exact statement is the bedbug of our national thought. Let’s keep chanting to ourselves that all value judgements are subjective, we can blind ourselves from the intellectual shitheap that results with our splooge.
nice diss
And BTW, claiming that value judgements are subjective is NOT subversive or “transgressive.” Think carefully about exactly who benefits from you thinking this way.
nice diss
And BTW, claiming that value judgements are subjective is NOT subversive or “transgressive.” Think carefully about exactly who benefits from you thinking this way.
Roxane says, this guy who is somewhat unlikable actually wrote something cool so I talked to him about it. And you guys think that’s dictatorial and bossy? Or just the idea that after going to the trouble of posting that she’d prefer people actually respond to the post instead of same random bs from the comment hall of fame.
I really don’t see it. It’s the internet, people, seriously. I don’t email every person whose book I read just to tell him know that, you know, I didn’t really enjoy it so much.
Roxane says, this guy who is somewhat unlikable actually wrote something cool so I talked to him about it. And you guys think that’s dictatorial and bossy? Or just the idea that after going to the trouble of posting that she’d prefer people actually respond to the post instead of same random bs from the comment hall of fame.
I really don’t see it. It’s the internet, people, seriously. I don’t email every person whose book I read just to tell him know that, you know, I didn’t really enjoy it so much.
you mad
tell em why you mad, son
you mad
tell em why you mad, son
Good interview.
I don’t really no all the context of his earlier shit/comments/whatever, or I don’t remember, so it must not have made too much an impact.
I’m not going to look now.
For this, I thought he had a few interesting things to say about writing and process, though.
Good interview.
I don’t really no all the context of his earlier shit/comments/whatever, or I don’t remember, so it must not have made too much an impact.
I’m not going to look now.
For this, I thought he had a few interesting things to say about writing and process, though.
yeah, dude. A+
yeah, dude. A+
say that calling out a writer for being pretentious is itself pretentious,
I’m not saying the act of calling a writer out is pretentious, or even hypocritical, only that it holds little meaning if the semantic definition of pretentious is so variable and/or wrapped up in personal insecurities like what demi-puppet says below.
subj[ect.]tive.
what is pretentiousness and why is it bad? its someone pretending to be better than they are. its someone wanting to better themselves, or push a boundary. it gets perceived as bad when there is a sense that someone is trying to unfairly gain something by the process. but rarely do people act in such a way as to make themselves seem a way to other people for that purpose, solely. maybe like extreme cases of greediness. This sense of pretention should never be attributed to the arts.
Pretend to be something you’re not long enough and eventually you become that thing.
Real unfair pretentiousness never lasts, it butts up against real tests often enough to become transparent, that it doesnt even need to be speculated about. its better to have pretentious people who are pretending to be things they want to be in the more likely events they become those people.
If you are looking at something and you don’t understand it and only coming to the conclusion of pretention, then you are making this presumption: there is nothing in the world you are not able to understand by the means you are used to, therefore anything encountered that is inexplciable must be pretending.
[all i know is nothing -socrates]
theres nothing wrong with being pretentious since it leads to a person attempting to realize a self they want to be. whats wrong with that?
say that calling out a writer for being pretentious is itself pretentious,
I’m not saying the act of calling a writer out is pretentious, or even hypocritical, only that it holds little meaning if the semantic definition of pretentious is so variable and/or wrapped up in personal insecurities like what demi-puppet says below.
subj[ect.]tive.
what is pretentiousness and why is it bad? its someone pretending to be better than they are. its someone wanting to better themselves, or push a boundary. it gets perceived as bad when there is a sense that someone is trying to unfairly gain something by the process. but rarely do people act in such a way as to make themselves seem a way to other people for that purpose, solely. maybe like extreme cases of greediness. This sense of pretention should never be attributed to the arts.
Pretend to be something you’re not long enough and eventually you become that thing.
Real unfair pretentiousness never lasts, it butts up against real tests often enough to become transparent, that it doesnt even need to be speculated about. its better to have pretentious people who are pretending to be things they want to be in the more likely events they become those people.
If you are looking at something and you don’t understand it and only coming to the conclusion of pretention, then you are making this presumption: there is nothing in the world you are not able to understand by the means you are used to, therefore anything encountered that is inexplciable must be pretending.
[all i know is nothing -socrates]
theres nothing wrong with being pretentious since it leads to a person attempting to realize a self they want to be. whats wrong with that?
my most recent comment is not a diss, that’s for sure.
my most recent comment is not a diss, that’s for sure.
your reply seems reasonable. keep in mind, this is coming from a hardcore fan of joyce, so i mean, i’m not knocking ambition. nice points.
your reply seems reasonable. keep in mind, this is coming from a hardcore fan of joyce, so i mean, i’m not knocking ambition. nice points.
its more like in general. i think roxane has a tendency to send up posts that bring up interesting issues and then refuse to intelligently defend them. it makes it more infuriating because what she throws out tends to subtlely insult some other school of thought (as in this case, the idea of accessible as ‘good’ in literature implies inaccessible as ‘bad’ or less or something) but instead of defending her position, or continuing what ought to be the real discussion, her comments end up being dismissive, in a kind of theres-nothing-to-debate-here-because-im-right which come off to me as constant slaps in the face and not real discussion. maybe i was raised in an environment where if you have a position, you better be ready to fucking defend it, so this refusal to defend is an ultimate sin, and then it escalates to the point, since roxane refuses to diffuse it by defending her position, that everyone is sitting around saying, why is there all this drama here, roxane is just being her usual innocent self and its like everyone is against her. why is that happening? man i need to stop coming to this site for a while i think.
its more like in general. i think roxane has a tendency to send up posts that bring up interesting issues and then refuse to intelligently defend them. it makes it more infuriating because what she throws out tends to subtlely insult some other school of thought (as in this case, the idea of accessible as ‘good’ in literature implies inaccessible as ‘bad’ or less or something) but instead of defending her position, or continuing what ought to be the real discussion, her comments end up being dismissive, in a kind of theres-nothing-to-debate-here-because-im-right which come off to me as constant slaps in the face and not real discussion. maybe i was raised in an environment where if you have a position, you better be ready to fucking defend it, so this refusal to defend is an ultimate sin, and then it escalates to the point, since roxane refuses to diffuse it by defending her position, that everyone is sitting around saying, why is there all this drama here, roxane is just being her usual innocent self and its like everyone is against her. why is that happening? man i need to stop coming to this site for a while i think.
Darby, I don’t have to defend a goddamned thing. I’m not insulting shit. I’ve seen more than one argument against the idea of accessible literature. I don’t have time to pull up a citation to “prove” it to you but I’m not just pulling this stuff out of my ass. You are reading way too much into the question. I meant exactly what I said in that question. When I read Mather’s book, the first word that came to mind was accessible. Complimenting one thing is not degrading another. You can take it as such but that just speaks more to your willfully contrary nature. I didn’t take a position in this interview. I asked a question that you interpreted with your own bizarre agenda.
Darby, I don’t have to defend a goddamned thing. I’m not insulting shit. I’ve seen more than one argument against the idea of accessible literature. I don’t have time to pull up a citation to “prove” it to you but I’m not just pulling this stuff out of my ass. You are reading way too much into the question. I meant exactly what I said in that question. When I read Mather’s book, the first word that came to mind was accessible. Complimenting one thing is not degrading another. You can take it as such but that just speaks more to your willfully contrary nature. I didn’t take a position in this interview. I asked a question that you interpreted with your own bizarre agenda.
you dont have to defend, but why not defend? why not actually have the discussion you so vehemently seem to want to avoid? im not asking you to write a dissertation, just engage in a discussion about something other than reasons why you don’t want to engage in discussions.
you dont have to defend, but why not defend? why not actually have the discussion you so vehemently seem to want to avoid? im not asking you to write a dissertation, just engage in a discussion about something other than reasons why you don’t want to engage in discussions.
im not really refering to this post as much actually, just in general. so that was a bad example to use on my part. just in general from your posts, this is the pattern i gather. and im always trying to understand my constant frustration with them is all.
my ‘willfully contrary nature,’ i hate how thats said like its a bad thing. my tendency to want to get to the bottoms of contrarinesses, is maybe how i would say it. i argue when i see faults in logic or untruths that i want to explore more. i dont just argue for the sake of being contrary.
I am bossy and opinionated and I don’t feel like I have to justify that. -roxane gay
its this utter rigidity that i keep running into. inflexible. closeminded. i keep trying to find a way around it. if you aren’t just pulling things out of your ass, then back it up with something because otherwise thats what im going to keep assuming. i will never take a persons word as truth. lets debate.
im not really refering to this post as much actually, just in general. so that was a bad example to use on my part. just in general from your posts, this is the pattern i gather. and im always trying to understand my constant frustration with them is all.
my ‘willfully contrary nature,’ i hate how thats said like its a bad thing. my tendency to want to get to the bottoms of contrarinesses, is maybe how i would say it. i argue when i see faults in logic or untruths that i want to explore more. i dont just argue for the sake of being contrary.
I am bossy and opinionated and I don’t feel like I have to justify that. -roxane gay
its this utter rigidity that i keep running into. inflexible. closeminded. i keep trying to find a way around it. if you aren’t just pulling things out of your ass, then back it up with something because otherwise thats what im going to keep assuming. i will never take a persons word as truth. lets debate.
“Aftermath of ‘Fuck Mather Schneider’ Incident,” Complete Gmail Correspondence btw ‘Mather Schneider’ and ‘stephen,’ April 20, 2010, 5:39-6:27 P.M. (1 hour closer to death)”:
Can you send me a copy of your guidelines?
Mather Schneider
Hey Mather :)
Guess I said “fuck you.” Internet, right? I don’t know you as a person, so I mean…. No real-life offense intended. Ummmm….. I don’t really have any guidelines, honestly. Thank you for your interest, if you really have some. Not sure what else to tell you. Hope you’re OK, bro. Whatever your opinions re: HTMLGIANT/bear parade, at this point, i consider it an “internet thing.” So….yeah…
Peace,
Stephen
You said a few more things than “fuck you”, Stephen. And I never even said anything about you at all.
But, sure, peace, bro.
Mather
Well, I didn’t like what you said about Gene Morgan & company. Seemed like “bullshit,” “unnecessary,” etc. You of all people should have a tough skin, yes?
“Peace and sloppy kisses,”
Stephen
I’m pretty sure if you just “doing your thing” and “stop slinging shit,” you’d receive less animosity
*”did your thing”
But c’mon, man, I ain’t banning you from shit. And I’m not trying to make enemies. When I say peace, I mean it, bro.
Mather: Well, no shit, that was obvious. I said what I said about Gene and comp. because I didn’t like the way he treated me and I don’t like the people he publishes. Not sure why you’re quoting “bullshit” and “unnecessary”.
Yes I have a tough skin.
well good, man. why you gmailing little ol’ me, then? what did he do to you? gene, that is? honestly, man, his whole philosophy is like “destroying literature” or not taking it seriously or something, so how is it a pedestal for these writers? and who cares if he publishes them and not you or something?
Again, why are you quoting “doing your thing” and “stop slinging shit”?
I am not seeking to “receive less animosity”.
M
i picked up a habit from tao. it’s meant to ironize or question the validity of the words, or to point out that they are debatable or cliched terms
Mather: Good.
Good. Let’s call a truce, yeah? You’re doing your thing. I’m doing some thing. It’s a free country. No one’s dying. I’m willing to assume you’re a perfectly decent human being.
I am emailing you because I can’t comment on the thread itself, on which you have called me a dozen ugly names. I’ve never even uttered your name and have no idea who you are. My GWI column about Gene and htmlg was based on his letter to me. He banned me for reasons I consider trivial. Add to that the fact that I think his bear parade is a bunch of lamos, it was an easy column to write. Also, it was supposed to be mainly humorous and I think Gene knows that, but you for some reason can’t come to terms with it. I was not actually threatening to stab him, I was playing on what he said to me. I would never stab him or anybody, unless my life was threatened.
M
OK. Sounds reasonable.
Glad we could have this “experience” together, yall. Peace and love,
“Aftermath of ‘Fuck Mather Schneider’ Incident,” Complete Gmail Correspondence btw ‘Mather Schneider’ and ‘stephen,’ April 20, 2010, 5:39-6:27 P.M. (1 hour closer to death)”:
Can you send me a copy of your guidelines?
Mather Schneider
Hey Mather :)
Guess I said “fuck you.” Internet, right? I don’t know you as a person, so I mean…. No real-life offense intended. Ummmm….. I don’t really have any guidelines, honestly. Thank you for your interest, if you really have some. Not sure what else to tell you. Hope you’re OK, bro. Whatever your opinions re: HTMLGIANT/bear parade, at this point, i consider it an “internet thing.” So….yeah…
Peace,
Stephen
You said a few more things than “fuck you”, Stephen. And I never even said anything about you at all.
But, sure, peace, bro.
Mather
Well, I didn’t like what you said about Gene Morgan & company. Seemed like “bullshit,” “unnecessary,” etc. You of all people should have a tough skin, yes?
“Peace and sloppy kisses,”
Stephen
I’m pretty sure if you just “doing your thing” and “stop slinging shit,” you’d receive less animosity
*”did your thing”
But c’mon, man, I ain’t banning you from shit. And I’m not trying to make enemies. When I say peace, I mean it, bro.
Mather: Well, no shit, that was obvious. I said what I said about Gene and comp. because I didn’t like the way he treated me and I don’t like the people he publishes. Not sure why you’re quoting “bullshit” and “unnecessary”.
Yes I have a tough skin.
well good, man. why you gmailing little ol’ me, then? what did he do to you? gene, that is? honestly, man, his whole philosophy is like “destroying literature” or not taking it seriously or something, so how is it a pedestal for these writers? and who cares if he publishes them and not you or something?
Again, why are you quoting “doing your thing” and “stop slinging shit”?
I am not seeking to “receive less animosity”.
M
i picked up a habit from tao. it’s meant to ironize or question the validity of the words, or to point out that they are debatable or cliched terms
Mather: Good.
Good. Let’s call a truce, yeah? You’re doing your thing. I’m doing some thing. It’s a free country. No one’s dying. I’m willing to assume you’re a perfectly decent human being.
I am emailing you because I can’t comment on the thread itself, on which you have called me a dozen ugly names. I’ve never even uttered your name and have no idea who you are. My GWI column about Gene and htmlg was based on his letter to me. He banned me for reasons I consider trivial. Add to that the fact that I think his bear parade is a bunch of lamos, it was an easy column to write. Also, it was supposed to be mainly humorous and I think Gene knows that, but you for some reason can’t come to terms with it. I was not actually threatening to stab him, I was playing on what he said to me. I would never stab him or anybody, unless my life was threatened.
M
OK. Sounds reasonable.
Glad we could have this “experience” together, yall. Peace and love,
wait, i thought you didnt want to give him a microphone.
wait, i thought you didnt want to give him a microphone.
eh… whatever…don’t care anymore…
“complete (dis)closure”
eh… whatever…don’t care anymore…
“complete (dis)closure”
sorry, blake, if this offends you. i like you, as i hope you know, and respect your, i don’t know, i respect you. peace
sorry, blake, if this offends you. i like you, as i hope you know, and respect your, i don’t know, i respect you. peace
I just want to clarify that Gene did not ban Mather.
I just want to clarify that Gene did not ban Mather.
stephen seems “out-of-control” re commenting
stephen seems “out-of-control” re commenting
whoa bro, thought you were tao lin for a minute (@ Not sure why you’re quoting “bullshit” and “unnecessary”) in disguise. we already have one tao lin on this site. there is no need for another, stephen.
whoa bro, thought you were tao lin for a minute (@ Not sure why you’re quoting “bullshit” and “unnecessary”) in disguise. we already have one tao lin on this site. there is no need for another, stephen.
if one tao lin is good, two tao lin’s is better.
if one tao lin is good, two tao lin’s is better.
Yeah, I pretend to feel things, too. I wonder what you would eat, if you actually felt sad? Probably a cupcake.
Yeah, I pretend to feel things, too. I wonder what you would eat, if you actually felt sad? Probably a cupcake.
indeed. I banned Mather. Gene pressed a button, after i asked him to. Mather knows why, despite playing ‘lil ol me’. so do the spambots. next topic, please.
indeed. I banned Mather. Gene pressed a button, after i asked him to. Mather knows why, despite playing ‘lil ol me’. so do the spambots. next topic, please.
Mather’s becoming more attractive all the time. I mean, if one Don Rickles is good, then two Don Rickles is better.
Mather’s becoming more attractive all the time. I mean, if one Don Rickles is good, then two Don Rickles is better.
this cat is my savior
this cat is my savior
you should check the last BSG thread re: stephen going ape…
you should check the last BSG thread re: stephen going ape…
reading all these comments, why do i feel like i’ve stumbled into someone’s treehouse?
Darby, come on. She said Mather being a prick doesn’t mean his point doesn’t have merit. People doing an ad hominem on her or him isn’t the debate you’re asking for. It’s disingenuous to pretend it is.
No one who frequents this site shies away from substantive debate. I mean, really. In the end, even when the debates do happen, we’re usually talking about a matter of personal preference. Facts and examples will never make someone right; lack of them won’t make them wrong.
Darby, come on. She said Mather being a prick doesn’t mean his point doesn’t have merit. People doing an ad hominem on her or him isn’t the debate you’re asking for. It’s disingenuous to pretend it is.
No one who frequents this site shies away from substantive debate. I mean, really. In the end, even when the debates do happen, we’re usually talking about a matter of personal preference. Facts and examples will never make someone right; lack of them won’t make them wrong.
lolcat – i love so much that you posted this not once, but twice in one hour. god bless you, mr. aguadulce
lolcat – i love so much that you posted this not once, but twice in one hour. god bless you, mr. aguadulce
Claiming to be the arbiter of the pretention of people you do not really know is itself very pretentious. By Mather’s own definition, a pretentious person is one who claims some reward for himself he has not earned. Mather has not earned the right to judge who is pretentious. After all, what are his credentials? What are his accomplishments? Driving a cab? Writing a few decent poems does not mean you can see deep inside the souls of others. Also, a lust to argue is not necessarily a sign of an individualist and free thinker. Sometimes it’s just the sign of being an ass.
The benefit of the doubt should be (and is) the default position of every thinking person. A rush to judge others as pretentious/evil/stupid/etc. is not the work of a “compassionate” artist, as Mather claims to be. That he can not see this simple contradiction does not speak well of his reasoning abilities.
However, his troublemaking has brought Mather a certain amount of attention, which was probably his goal all along.
Claiming to be the arbiter of the pretention of people you do not really know is itself very pretentious. By Mather’s own definition, a pretentious person is one who claims some reward for himself he has not earned. Mather has not earned the right to judge who is pretentious. After all, what are his credentials? What are his accomplishments? Driving a cab? Writing a few decent poems does not mean you can see deep inside the souls of others. Also, a lust to argue is not necessarily a sign of an individualist and free thinker. Sometimes it’s just the sign of being an ass.
The benefit of the doubt should be (and is) the default position of every thinking person. A rush to judge others as pretentious/evil/stupid/etc. is not the work of a “compassionate” artist, as Mather claims to be. That he can not see this simple contradiction does not speak well of his reasoning abilities.
However, his troublemaking has brought Mather a certain amount of attention, which was probably his goal all along.
im not asking for any particular debate, i admitted the accessible thing was not a good example. im just talking in general. im asking for any debate in general, for once. i’ll make the case roxane shies away from substantive debate. so what im looking for is either a substantive debate about something, or for roxane to admit she shies away from substantive debate. the latter of course being totally acceptable, but i feel like she deceptively makes it appear like she is being substantive and tries to ignite discussion with provocative posts and then doesnt actively participate. rather, she will come up with reasons why the debate is silly, or why the argument shouldnt happen, or that she isnt obligated to do anything or something dismissive about something, when i rarely see a desire on her part to engage in the discussion that she started.
im not asking for any particular debate, i admitted the accessible thing was not a good example. im just talking in general. im asking for any debate in general, for once. i’ll make the case roxane shies away from substantive debate. so what im looking for is either a substantive debate about something, or for roxane to admit she shies away from substantive debate. the latter of course being totally acceptable, but i feel like she deceptively makes it appear like she is being substantive and tries to ignite discussion with provocative posts and then doesnt actively participate. rather, she will come up with reasons why the debate is silly, or why the argument shouldnt happen, or that she isnt obligated to do anything or something dismissive about something, when i rarely see a desire on her part to engage in the discussion that she started.
last comment in ‘this place’. just gonna leave this word here — sciamachy — and this bit of faux sage advice: leave the demons in the subconscious where they belong, and just get back to work.
Darby you are right. I won’t get into a substantive debate with you because my dislike for you is stronger than my ability or interest in debating with you. With others I do when I can. When I don’t it’s probably because I’m busy and can only dash off brief thoughts. I post to spark discussion. If you don’t like my style I respect that but I don’t owe you anything.
Darby you are right. I won’t get into a substantive debate with you because my dislike for you is stronger than my ability or interest in debating with you. With others I do when I can. When I don’t it’s probably because I’m busy and can only dash off brief thoughts. I post to spark discussion. If you don’t like my style I respect that but I don’t owe you anything.
what does liking me have to do with anything? why dont you like me? i like you, i think you have a curious intelligence i am trying to understand more.
i know im being kind of button-pushy here and i apologize, maybe im in a drought w/r/t substantive discussion anywhere. i just feel like you are always putting these interesting ideas out into the internet and there’s so much potential to have real discussion and debate, but you stifle it by being dismissive to any train of thought that doesnt agree with your own, and it makes me sad.
anyway, i’ll stop responding or trying to have a discussion with you now, sorry you dont like me.
-Darby
what does liking me have to do with anything? why dont you like me? i like you, i think you have a curious intelligence i am trying to understand more.
i know im being kind of button-pushy here and i apologize, maybe im in a drought w/r/t substantive discussion anywhere. i just feel like you are always putting these interesting ideas out into the internet and there’s so much potential to have real discussion and debate, but you stifle it by being dismissive to any train of thought that doesnt agree with your own, and it makes me sad.
anyway, i’ll stop responding or trying to have a discussion with you now, sorry you dont like me.
-Darby
Darby, I have no problem with disagreement. I Just don’t. This is a forum. Anyone can say whatever they want and I am open to my perspective being broadened. My biggest frustration is that this was an interview. It wasn’t a provocative post. I didn’t ask provocative questions. Mather who I do not know and had not had contact with to that point e-mailed me, said he had written a book, would I review it. I said if I liked it I would. I liked it so I interviewed him. I e-mailed Gene to see if it would be okay. Then I posted it. There are lots of posts where I’m being provocative but this just isn’t one of them. And I’m sorry but I do not feel you generally frame discussions in a way that encourages substantive conversation. You poke and poke and poke.
Darby, I have no problem with disagreement. I Just don’t. This is a forum. Anyone can say whatever they want and I am open to my perspective being broadened. My biggest frustration is that this was an interview. It wasn’t a provocative post. I didn’t ask provocative questions. Mather who I do not know and had not had contact with to that point e-mailed me, said he had written a book, would I review it. I said if I liked it I would. I liked it so I interviewed him. I e-mailed Gene to see if it would be okay. Then I posted it. There are lots of posts where I’m being provocative but this just isn’t one of them. And I’m sorry but I do not feel you generally frame discussions in a way that encourages substantive conversation. You poke and poke and poke.
for what it’s worth, darby, i think you are reading roxane wrong. i’ve only met her a little, and a few emails, but in that time i have found her considerate and open. i don’t think she means her ideas as pronouncements, but thoughts in the air. i’m for debate, if you like, but agree with her or not, i wouldn’t write roxane off as trying to shit on anybody for their ideas, or to insist that others are wrong.
myself, on the other hand, i can be a meanie.
for what it’s worth, darby, i think you are reading roxane wrong. i’ve only met her a little, and a few emails, but in that time i have found her considerate and open. i don’t think she means her ideas as pronouncements, but thoughts in the air. i’m for debate, if you like, but agree with her or not, i wouldn’t write roxane off as trying to shit on anybody for their ideas, or to insist that others are wrong.
myself, on the other hand, i can be a meanie.
‘I do not feel you generally frame discussions in a way that encourages substantive conversation. You poke and poke and poke.’
thats true. its because i want it more and tend to assume most people do too when i think most people would rather take a bath. no one should have to frame substantive conversation in a way that encourages it. it doesnt need encouragement. there is enough of a drive already, poking and poking at my brain by default.
‘I do not feel you generally frame discussions in a way that encourages substantive conversation. You poke and poke and poke.’
thats true. its because i want it more and tend to assume most people do too when i think most people would rather take a bath. no one should have to frame substantive conversation in a way that encourages it. it doesnt need encouragement. there is enough of a drive already, poking and poking at my brain by default.
@blake, i have no problem believing roxane is probably the nicest person i would ever meet if i met her.
i think that ‘thoughts in the air’ thing is drives me a little too. like if it were just a pronouncement, id say, okay and back away, like its not up for debate. but i get that thoughts in the air feeling too and its like, okay she wants to debate this or there is a sense of being open about it or something and then all debate feels like it gets dismissed and never happens. im expecting too much though, or getting these internet vibes all mixed up. im regretting this whole chain now, i dont really care, roxane is her awesome self and i’ll continue to be my awesome self shouting at the wall a little and then drink tequila and cut my nails later.
@blake, i have no problem believing roxane is probably the nicest person i would ever meet if i met her.
i think that ‘thoughts in the air’ thing is drives me a little too. like if it were just a pronouncement, id say, okay and back away, like its not up for debate. but i get that thoughts in the air feeling too and its like, okay she wants to debate this or there is a sense of being open about it or something and then all debate feels like it gets dismissed and never happens. im expecting too much though, or getting these internet vibes all mixed up. im regretting this whole chain now, i dont really care, roxane is her awesome self and i’ll continue to be my awesome self shouting at the wall a little and then drink tequila and cut my nails later.
I went and read a bunch of this guy’s poetry after this interview. Was not impressed. Will not be seeking out book.
I went and read a bunch of this guy’s poetry after this interview. Was not impressed. Will not be seeking out book.
Can’t be as bad as Wenclas!
Can’t be as bad as Wenclas!
tropical storm stephen
tropical storm stephen
i’m starting to feel i agree that “pretentious” isn’t a “useful” term, “demi-puppet.” heh… what you describe is doubtless a common occurrence re: the kind of people who use “pretentious” and why they use it, but you’re not leaving room for the earnest, committed, learned reader/critic, who knows of what she speaks re: complexity and ambition.
i think the word(s) or statement(s) i would, if i was trying to be a “conventional literary critic” of some sort (which i wouldn’t do in the first place, but regardless), the words I would use instead of “pretentious,” using conventional jargon, while more “constructive,” would still denote the exact same negative qualities in the writing, as I see it of course. Instead of the dismissive, unhelpful “this is pretentious,” i would, as a traditional critic, probably substitute something along the lines of, for example, “The story suffers from attempts at post-Joycean wordplay and sub-Beckett ‘misery porn’ that feel forced and contrived, and the obfuscation of the narrative does not serve any discernible purpose, per this reader, other than maddening the earnest reader, a maddening that does not appear to be a thematic element, an artistic accomplishment, nor demonstrably an intended function of the story, which therefore seems an unintentional failing of the author or an intentional, smug effect bereft of purpose, meaning, charm, or essentiality.”
i’m starting to feel i agree that “pretentious” isn’t a “useful” term, “demi-puppet.” heh… what you describe is doubtless a common occurrence re: the kind of people who use “pretentious” and why they use it, but you’re not leaving room for the earnest, committed, learned reader/critic, who knows of what she speaks re: complexity and ambition.
i think the word(s) or statement(s) i would, if i was trying to be a “conventional literary critic” of some sort (which i wouldn’t do in the first place, but regardless), the words I would use instead of “pretentious,” using conventional jargon, while more “constructive,” would still denote the exact same negative qualities in the writing, as I see it of course. Instead of the dismissive, unhelpful “this is pretentious,” i would, as a traditional critic, probably substitute something along the lines of, for example, “The story suffers from attempts at post-Joycean wordplay and sub-Beckett ‘misery porn’ that feel forced and contrived, and the obfuscation of the narrative does not serve any discernible purpose, per this reader, other than maddening the earnest reader, a maddening that does not appear to be a thematic element, an artistic accomplishment, nor demonstrably an intended function of the story, which therefore seems an unintentional failing of the author or an intentional, smug effect bereft of purpose, meaning, charm, or essentiality.”
that is, if there is to be judgment re: literature. but i’m not sure at all that there should be, beyond a subjective “i like this, this is sweet, this is why i like it,” or “i don’t care for this, i’ll let someone else speak on it.”
that is, if there is to be judgment re: literature. but i’m not sure at all that there should be, beyond a subjective “i like this, this is sweet, this is why i like it,” or “i don’t care for this, i’ll let someone else speak on it.”
i mean to say, “i’m not sure if i would want there to be,” there is no “should”
i mean to say, “i’m not sure if i would want there to be,” there is no “should”
Yes. This
Yes. This
You don’t believe that aesthetic judgments are subjective?
You don’t believe that aesthetic judgments are subjective?
Seriously. The second time this appeared made it exponentially more wonderful. Thanks be to you Mr. B.B.
Seriously. The second time this appeared made it exponentially more wonderful. Thanks be to you Mr. B.B.
Couple of things coming to mind after reading both the interview and almost all of the comments (when it spirals into meta-ridiculousness, I can’t stay interested, that’s just me).
Roxane, great interview. Whether I’ll end up picking up the book or not, as a writer and a thinker, I truly always enjoy hearing another writer’s thoughts on how they write what they write, where they come from, where their work comes from, etc.
Second, I think it only makes HTML Giant stronger from several vantage points to have banned a commenter, and then to allow a contributor to interview them. Seems very open and democratic, and makes it about the work and the writers in general, and not about being petty with regard to specific commenters and comments.
Third, I don’t get all the hullabaloo about “pretentiousness.” Maybe I’m digging my own grave here, but some of the examples I read just seem like pettiness, when people are pointing out what they find as pretentious. I speak and write in long sentences, more often than not, with lots of modifying phrases and caveats added. It’s how I think. I’m not trying to “pretend” to be anything other than me, with my brain, and my manner of speaking. Further, this seems a waste of time to try to parse out who is pretentious when more often than not, none of us has met anyone else in person, and it’s a lot to read into tone-less, nuance-less Internet speak.
Which leads me to four — I think there seems to be an unfortunate tendency on the part of some commenters to guide the discussion into a state of devolution — the arguments often seem argumentative for the sake of argument, nit-picky and have a brand of circular academic logic. Like arguing only for the sake of proving to others that you are smart enough to identify something worthy of putting under scrutiny. I can’t say it makes for interesting reading. When it does, it’s great.
There’s my two sense. Or four cents.
Couple of things coming to mind after reading both the interview and almost all of the comments (when it spirals into meta-ridiculousness, I can’t stay interested, that’s just me).
Roxane, great interview. Whether I’ll end up picking up the book or not, as a writer and a thinker, I truly always enjoy hearing another writer’s thoughts on how they write what they write, where they come from, where their work comes from, etc.
Second, I think it only makes HTML Giant stronger from several vantage points to have banned a commenter, and then to allow a contributor to interview them. Seems very open and democratic, and makes it about the work and the writers in general, and not about being petty with regard to specific commenters and comments.
Third, I don’t get all the hullabaloo about “pretentiousness.” Maybe I’m digging my own grave here, but some of the examples I read just seem like pettiness, when people are pointing out what they find as pretentious. I speak and write in long sentences, more often than not, with lots of modifying phrases and caveats added. It’s how I think. I’m not trying to “pretend” to be anything other than me, with my brain, and my manner of speaking. Further, this seems a waste of time to try to parse out who is pretentious when more often than not, none of us has met anyone else in person, and it’s a lot to read into tone-less, nuance-less Internet speak.
Which leads me to four — I think there seems to be an unfortunate tendency on the part of some commenters to guide the discussion into a state of devolution — the arguments often seem argumentative for the sake of argument, nit-picky and have a brand of circular academic logic. Like arguing only for the sake of proving to others that you are smart enough to identify something worthy of putting under scrutiny. I can’t say it makes for interesting reading. When it does, it’s great.
There’s my two sense. Or four cents.
just caught myself whistling this song.
just caught myself whistling this song.
This is the first time I’ve visted this site. I found it listed on Mather’s page for his book’s reviews. So you folks banned him, eh? This is a curious place (all these community joints are) where poets have more time to chat about writing than actual writing. Maybe Mather commented about this. I bet he did. And I bet it pissed off lots of writers here. Mather’s the real deal: a poet living the life. He’s a rare thing. No MFA, no insulation from support groups. He is a one man movement. A Henry Miller, a Bukowski.
His book is one of the best I’ve read. Next to Anne Sexton’s Transformations, Beckian Fritz Goldberg’s Body Betrayer, Whitman’s Leaves of Grass, Ginsberg’s Howl. Maybe that’s what upsets many writers here. It’s a tough gig to be honest. It often hurts. Poetry, if an accurate reflection of life, isn’t always a feel-good endeavor.
This is the first time I’ve visted this site. I found it listed on Mather’s page for his book’s reviews. So you folks banned him, eh? This is a curious place (all these community joints are) where poets have more time to chat about writing than actual writing. Maybe Mather commented about this. I bet he did. And I bet it pissed off lots of writers here. Mather’s the real deal: a poet living the life. He’s a rare thing. No MFA, no insulation from support groups. He is a one man movement. A Henry Miller, a Bukowski.
His book is one of the best I’ve read. Next to Anne Sexton’s Transformations, Beckian Fritz Goldberg’s Body Betrayer, Whitman’s Leaves of Grass, Ginsberg’s Howl. Maybe that’s what upsets many writers here. It’s a tough gig to be honest. It often hurts. Poetry, if an accurate reflection of life, isn’t always a feel-good endeavor.
have you tried the kfc doubldown?
have you tried the kfc doubldown?
Jason, can’t believe you commented here, can’t believe you even spent time reading this post at all. Think of everything you could’ve written in the time it took you to do that. Think of how you could have been out living the life.
Jason, can’t believe you commented here, can’t believe you even spent time reading this post at all. Think of everything you could’ve written in the time it took you to do that. Think of how you could have been out living the life.
shyeah it is the bestest thing i ever aten next to leaves of grass
shyeah it is the bestest thing i ever aten next to leaves of grass
oh man i just read through this. funny shit.
i already broke my rule and commented so i might as well do it in this thread too.
to put it bluntly, mather is a bitch. he ran his mouth against me and got real quiet when i told him i was 6 hours away from where he lived and it would be real easy to find him.
sometimes people need to be punched.
as for his writing, i don’t know. i do know the only reason why his writing is being discussed here is because of the type of “personality” he is.
oh man i just read through this. funny shit.
i already broke my rule and commented so i might as well do it in this thread too.
to put it bluntly, mather is a bitch. he ran his mouth against me and got real quiet when i told him i was 6 hours away from where he lived and it would be real easy to find him.
sometimes people need to be punched.
as for his writing, i don’t know. i do know the only reason why his writing is being discussed here is because of the type of “personality” he is.
haha
what is all this back patting about doing a good job or being strong or etc for having an interview with mather posted here?
real strength is letting a rabid dog break his fangs against your skin.
this is all controlled.
to be honest, if i thought mather actually cared about words, i would help him bypass gene’s bullshit ip ban.
it isn’t hard.
but all mather did was run around and tell people “you are worthless”.
he told that directly to the person. everyone he met.
EVERYONE
dude is a bitch.
regardless, this isn’t strength.
haha
what is all this back patting about doing a good job or being strong or etc for having an interview with mather posted here?
real strength is letting a rabid dog break his fangs against your skin.
this is all controlled.
to be honest, if i thought mather actually cared about words, i would help him bypass gene’s bullshit ip ban.
it isn’t hard.
but all mather did was run around and tell people “you are worthless”.
he told that directly to the person. everyone he met.
EVERYONE
dude is a bitch.
regardless, this isn’t strength.
I think I read past the “strength” part you are referencing. Can you copy/paste it so I know what you are referencing?
I think I read past the “strength” part you are referencing. Can you copy/paste it so I know what you are referencing?
Ok : Ahem :
I’m sure Mather’s book is ok.
I’m sure he has a ton of legit reasons to hate this crowd and the writers promoted.
But, in all the arguments against him, why hasnt anyone acknowledge the fact that he is getting attention the same way those he criticizes did?
I kinda feel like that makes everyone here a little, well a lot, hypocritical.
Mather for doing what supposedly pisses him off so much
and HTMLGIANT for getting mad at this kind of attention grabbing bullshit just because someone else did it.
i mean, he’s taking this right out of your own playbook. Youda been better off just ignoring the guy. Right?
I cant be the only one that sees this, right?
Right?
Ok : Ahem :
I’m sure Mather’s book is ok.
I’m sure he has a ton of legit reasons to hate this crowd and the writers promoted.
But, in all the arguments against him, why hasnt anyone acknowledge the fact that he is getting attention the same way those he criticizes did?
I kinda feel like that makes everyone here a little, well a lot, hypocritical.
Mather for doing what supposedly pisses him off so much
and HTMLGIANT for getting mad at this kind of attention grabbing bullshit just because someone else did it.
i mean, he’s taking this right out of your own playbook. Youda been better off just ignoring the guy. Right?
I cant be the only one that sees this, right?
Right?
yeah, its p87 of our playbook.
yeah, its p87 of our playbook.
although i told myself i would no longer permit my virtual persona to become embroiled in such internet commentary schemes, i am also weak. reading over these posts makes me feel more depressed than usual. i assume that the individuals commenting here like to think of themselves as well read folks, or even as literati, the aggragate driving force of a burgeoning literature. one individual goes through the trouble of hashing out the denotation/connotation of “pretentious” while apparently insensate to the egotistical flavor of his or her own pronouncements. another slaps quotes around words and phrases so as to question the validity of these expressions, though he admits to having appropriated this “strategy” from another writer. (isn’t that ironic?) yet another fake tough guy claims to really “care about words” and then goes on to write “dude is a bitch.” grammatical errors and crappy neologisms, which i’m sure would be explained away with the “it’s just the internet” claim, abound. if this is art, i’ll take porn.
although i told myself i would no longer permit my virtual persona to become embroiled in such internet commentary schemes, i am also weak. reading over these posts makes me feel more depressed than usual. i assume that the individuals commenting here like to think of themselves as well read folks, or even as literati, the aggragate driving force of a burgeoning literature. one individual goes through the trouble of hashing out the denotation/connotation of “pretentious” while apparently insensate to the egotistical flavor of his or her own pronouncements. another slaps quotes around words and phrases so as to question the validity of these expressions, though he admits to having appropriated this “strategy” from another writer. (isn’t that ironic?) yet another fake tough guy claims to really “care about words” and then goes on to write “dude is a bitch.” grammatical errors and crappy neologisms, which i’m sure would be explained away with the “it’s just the internet” claim, abound. if this is art, i’ll take porn.
you misspelled “aggregate”
you misspelled “aggregate”
hee hee
hee hee
other than that, i agree with your point and i like your style. you seem attractive. would you like to meet up somewhere, sometime? we could drink some whisky and get drunk. i’m touring the country right now, so let me know. i’m going anywhere.
other than that, i agree with your point and i like your style. you seem attractive. would you like to meet up somewhere, sometime? we could drink some whisky and get drunk. i’m touring the country right now, so let me know. i’m going anywhere.
thanks, mott. i guess we could get together if you’d like, but i’ve quit drinking alcohol for the time being. also, i’m wondering if you’re a male or a female, not that your answer should dictate my willingness to meet with you.
thanks, mott. i guess we could get together if you’d like, but i’ve quit drinking alcohol for the time being. also, i’m wondering if you’re a male or a female, not that your answer should dictate my willingness to meet with you.
whoa, i didn’t expect you to write back so quickly, if at all. i hope this isn’t too creepy for you, but i think i’d rather not identify my gender right now. won’t that make an actual meeting more exciting? i think so. come to think of it, i wonder what sex you are. you’re not a drunk are you?
whoa, i didn’t expect you to write back so quickly, if at all. i hope this isn’t too creepy for you, but i think i’d rather not identify my gender right now. won’t that make an actual meeting more exciting? i think so. come to think of it, i wonder what sex you are. you’re not a drunk are you?
well, i guess your surprise speaks to the power of having no expectations. i’m a male, by the way. (sorry to kill a bit of the surprise.) i stopped drinking to keep myself from becoming a drunk. if we met what would you like to do? i currently live in new york. where in the country are you?
well, i guess your surprise speaks to the power of having no expectations. i’m a male, by the way. (sorry to kill a bit of the surprise.) i stopped drinking to keep myself from becoming a drunk. if we met what would you like to do? i currently live in new york. where in the country are you?
that’s so crazy! by identifying as a male you did kill a bit of the surprise, but in revealing your current location you seriously raised my level of excitement. i’m in brooklyn right now, at this coffee shop called grumpy’s. i smoked a lot of marijuana by myself while on the brooklyn queens expressway earlier, so now i’m sitting in here cruising the web. i think i just saw the guy from that band grizzly bear. what bands do you like? if you came over here we could sit in my van and smoke the rest of this marijuana and listen to some of my mix tapes and then go get some food. do you like organ meats?
that’s so crazy! by identifying as a male you did kill a bit of the surprise, but in revealing your current location you seriously raised my level of excitement. i’m in brooklyn right now, at this coffee shop called grumpy’s. i smoked a lot of marijuana by myself while on the brooklyn queens expressway earlier, so now i’m sitting in here cruising the web. i think i just saw the guy from that band grizzly bear. what bands do you like? if you came over here we could sit in my van and smoke the rest of this marijuana and listen to some of my mix tapes and then go get some food. do you like organ meats?
i do like pan-fried sweetbreads and pork belly. i’m currently at work, though actually not very far from the coffee shop you mentioned. i’ll be done at 4 pm, so perhaps we could get together then. a few bands I’ve been listening to lately are thee oh sees, the wipers, and the underground railroad to candyland. i don’t know if you’ll still be in the area when i’m done with work, but if so, i could bring over a couple of records and my suitcase turntable, or some more drugs.
i do like pan-fried sweetbreads and pork belly. i’m currently at work, though actually not very far from the coffee shop you mentioned. i’ll be done at 4 pm, so perhaps we could get together then. a few bands I’ve been listening to lately are thee oh sees, the wipers, and the underground railroad to candyland. i don’t know if you’ll still be in the area when i’m done with work, but if so, i could bring over a couple of records and my suitcase turntable, or some more drugs.
i think i’d enjoy that. where do you work? what kinds of drugs do you have?
i think i’d enjoy that. where do you work? what kinds of drugs do you have?
i work at a company called burning angel. i could bring over some meth or some crack cocaine. i know most people are wary of those substances, but i thought i’d offer. where would you like to meet? to what bands are you listening?
i work at a company called burning angel. i could bring over some meth or some crack cocaine. i know most people are wary of those substances, but i thought i’d offer. where would you like to meet? to what bands are you listening?
crazy! you should bring over the crack and the meth. i’ve been having trouble finding much on the road, though in denver i managed to get a hold of some chloral hydrate. but i don’t want to do it alone. i really like the wipers too. i’ve been listening to a lot of slayer and infest recently. i have also revisited the discography of nine shocks terror. i heard there’s a big park in the area. maybe we could meet there. i’m not sure what the cops are like around here, but we could smoke the drugs in the park or in my van.
crazy! you should bring over the crack and the meth. i’ve been having trouble finding much on the road, though in denver i managed to get a hold of some chloral hydrate. but i don’t want to do it alone. i really like the wipers too. i’ve been listening to a lot of slayer and infest recently. i have also revisited the discography of nine shocks terror. i heard there’s a big park in the area. maybe we could meet there. i’m not sure what the cops are like around here, but we could smoke the drugs in the park or in my van.
nine shocks terror was quite a band, but i have not listened to their music ever since a friend of mine was killed with a ball-peen hammer at one of their shows. meet me at 4:30 pm near the men’s public restroom in mccarren park. i’ll be wearing a gwar t-shirt. we can probably smoke the meth in the park, but i’d prefer to save the crack for later.
nine shocks terror was quite a band, but i have not listened to their music ever since a friend of mine was killed with a ball-peen hammer at one of their shows. meet me at 4:30 pm near the men’s public restroom in mccarren park. i’ll be wearing a gwar t-shirt. we can probably smoke the meth in the park, but i’d prefer to save the crack for later.
that sounds great. i’ll bring along some of the chloral hydrate. just in case—what’s your phone number?
that sounds great. i’ll bring along some of the chloral hydrate. just in case—what’s your phone number?
for obvious reasons, i would rather not provide my personal number here. if you dial 888-717-7517 and leave your number after the message, i will call you back. if you have any writing by basho, maybe you could bring that along. bring the marijuana as well.
for obvious reasons, i would rather not provide my personal number here. if you dial 888-717-7517 and leave your number after the message, i will call you back. if you have any writing by basho, maybe you could bring that along. bring the marijuana as well.
whoa, i quit reading basho. i could explain later. but i picked up this book by joseph chassler and peter bellamy. also i did fib about the marijuana. when i mentioned marijuana i meant a pint of rectified spirit i picked up at this polish store down the block. i’m wearing a bonnie prince billy shirt, but i might change it before i head over to the park. not sure what i’ll put on yet. i forgot to mention i don’t own a phone. guess i’ll have to find you.
whoa, i quit reading basho. i could explain later. but i picked up this book by joseph chassler and peter bellamy. also i did fib about the marijuana. when i mentioned marijuana i meant a pint of rectified spirit i picked up at this polish store down the block. i’m wearing a bonnie prince billy shirt, but i might change it before i head over to the park. not sure what i’ll put on yet. i forgot to mention i don’t own a phone. guess i’ll have to find you.
don’t worry, do what you want. i forgive your minor lie. when i said i was a male, i should have said i am now a male. i suppose that might offend some people, but i have the sense you are possessed by an open mind. i have to get back to work right now. perhaps you shouldn’t bring the spiritus with you.
don’t worry, do what you want. i forgive your minor lie. when i said i was a male, i should have said i am now a male. i suppose that might offend some people, but i have the sense you are possessed by an open mind. i have to get back to work right now. perhaps you shouldn’t bring the spiritus with you.
ok, i won’t bring the booze, but i’ll bring the chloral hydrate. i may be drunk but i’m not a bigot. let’s say i’ve come to find it easier to abandon gender. you know what i mean? we can talk later.
ok, i won’t bring the booze, but i’ll bring the chloral hydrate. i may be drunk but i’m not a bigot. let’s say i’ve come to find it easier to abandon gender. you know what i mean? we can talk later.
Where do I start? First thing. My real name IS Babe and I have known Mather Schnieder for almost 30 years. I first met him when he moved to IL. Second, I am not a writer or poet, I am a contractor in WA state. Mather is an asshole, but it is not for the reasons you might think. In junior high and high school I knew Mather had an extrordinary intelect that seemed to scare all the insufficient teachers we came across. This would include almost all of them in our little district in IL. Mather was never one of those sweet guys like I used to be, but I think I witnessed a defining moment in his life in trig and precalc. class in 1988. He was one of the top 800m runners in the state the previous year, and had been training to qualify for the state track meet while taking college writing coarses at the community college and working part time for the parks department. The trouble was that he diddn’t need the trig. and precalc credit to graduate high school. So after several weeks of not doing any trig. homework and still getting A’s on the tests he decided to just use the class as a study period and not take the tests. This resulted in a failing grade.So after weeks maintaining a 4.0 in his college courses, working and going to highschool part time, and training to possibly get a scholarship to run in college, our teacher decided to report him as inelligable to compete. The track coach pleaded with her and so did Mather before class that day. She did not budge. This is when he lost it. Lets just say he belittled and insulted her so effectively before he left the class that she sobbed through the rest of the lesson. I don’t think he ever REALLY returned to school again. He may not agree with my version of these events or their affect on him but that is how I saw it. That my friends is just the shit that went down in highschool. the next 10 years were just a blur. Mather Schneider is an asshole but thats what I like about him.
Where do I start? First thing. My real name IS Babe and I have known Mather Schnieder for almost 30 years. I first met him when he moved to IL. Second, I am not a writer or poet, I am a contractor in WA state. Mather is an asshole, but it is not for the reasons you might think. In junior high and high school I knew Mather had an extrordinary intelect that seemed to scare all the insufficient teachers we came across. This would include almost all of them in our little district in IL. Mather was never one of those sweet guys like I used to be, but I think I witnessed a defining moment in his life in trig and precalc. class in 1988. He was one of the top 800m runners in the state the previous year, and had been training to qualify for the state track meet while taking college writing coarses at the community college and working part time for the parks department. The trouble was that he diddn’t need the trig. and precalc credit to graduate high school. So after several weeks of not doing any trig. homework and still getting A’s on the tests he decided to just use the class as a study period and not take the tests. This resulted in a failing grade.So after weeks maintaining a 4.0 in his college courses, working and going to highschool part time, and training to possibly get a scholarship to run in college, our teacher decided to report him as inelligable to compete. The track coach pleaded with her and so did Mather before class that day. She did not budge. This is when he lost it. Lets just say he belittled and insulted her so effectively before he left the class that she sobbed through the rest of the lesson. I don’t think he ever REALLY returned to school again. He may not agree with my version of these events or their affect on him but that is how I saw it. That my friends is just the shit that went down in highschool. the next 10 years were just a blur. Mather Schneider is an asshole but thats what I like about him.
wat was his 800m time? just curious
wat was his 800m time? just curious
Not sure. 22years ago. I don’t think he broke 1:50 though.
Not sure. 22years ago. I don’t think he broke 1:50 though.
Verbal actions.
You’re fucking psychotic.
LOL, and pretentious.
I’ll ask you to remove this comment, which contains the entirety of content from Girls with Insurance.
You’re fucking psychotic. And pretentious.
Who doesn’t shadow box?
Doesn’t it make you feel weird to be American when you see the double-down ad? They make it look like it’s normal to eat 5,000,000 calories in one item (don’t forget your fries and drink!).
I’ll ask him.
Verbal actions.
You’re fucking psychotic.
LOL, and pretentious.
I’ll ask you to remove this comment, which contains the entirety of content from Girls with Insurance.
You’re fucking psychotic. And pretentious.
Who doesn’t shadow box?
Doesn’t it make you feel weird to be American when you see the double-down ad? They make it look like it’s normal to eat 5,000,000 calories in one item (don’t forget your fries and drink!).
I’ll ask him.
Darby Larson is right the on the money about Roxane Gay. Finally, I’m not crazy.
Fuck all this noise.
He says 1:58, Ryan.
Darby Larson is right the on the money about Roxane Gay. Finally, I’m not crazy.
Fuck all this noise.
He says 1:58, Ryan.
This gentlemen just friended me on Facebook and then spoke to me briefly about how my review of He Is Talking to the Fat Lady was bloated with hyperbole and then posed the question: I mean is xTx really THAT good? I have no thoughts on this interview or this person. But it is strange to have found this interview and even more strange to have read that first question from Roxane. I guess some of it makes sense now.
Funny. I stay away from HTML Giant. Odd that I would come here because of Mather.
Mather, I hope you are still writing. Drop in at Mary from time to time. I’m going to assume you’ve subscribed to these comments, dick head – (smile) –
I hope you are well, Sir.
– –
Okay,
Father Luke
Still alive in Portland, Oregon
Funny. I stay away from HTML Giant. Odd that I would come here because of Mather.
Mather, I hope you are still writing. Drop in at Mary from time to time. I’m going to assume you’ve subscribed to these comments, dick head – (smile) –
I hope you are well, Sir.
– –
Okay,
Father Luke
Still alive in Portland, Oregon