Craft Notes
What Does It Mean to Be a Young Writer Today?
Take our own Ken Baumann. He’s twenty, and already toying with a style, voice, and rhythm all his own–see the newest New York Tyrant for proof. His work is at once strange and familiar, careful and mindful without constraining a sense of freedom which announces the promise of novelty, of a literature which is no longer merely literature. If any of that makes any sense to anyone. What I mean to say is, Ken is a young–very young, college-aged–prose stylist. Perhaps that is a rare feat. Perhaps it is not. But not often does an artist so young fulfill the promise of youth by making it new.
Take Zachary German. He’s twenty-one, I believe, and while he indeed belongs to a certain class of writers, his style, at a very original pace, moves toward a terminal space, a degree-zero. His work has much to say about contemporary art, culture, and values, on both a level of doing and being. In many ways, he walks the talk of a young Camus. He’s twenty-one. How?
I’m nineteen. I strive for an immediate stylism in my work. Whether or not I’m successful I cannot say.
Rimbaud. John Cheever, I think, published his first story in The New Yorker at age nineteen. There have been others, though I’m not thinking straight right now, for a number of reasons, so if anyone feels inclined to drop more names, please drop.
What is the significance of reaching an impressive control of voice at so young of an age? Are young writers doomed to perpetual adolescence, or might each one grow or stagnate on a singular basis? Do young writers matter qua young writers–should they be differentiated, praised or damned as young? Is there something entitled and overconfident about publishing–about engaging in a conversation as old as language itself–when you, as I do, still rely on your parents to eat? If you aren’t so young, what were you writing when you were my age? When did you come to writing? Is youth a dirty word?
What does it mean to be young?
Tags: eating, goddamn children are sexy, hot children, John Cheever, Ken Baumann, pedophilia, Rimbaud, youth, zachary german
nothing like htmlgiant to make a 28-yr-old feel old.
john ashbery, age 18, and kenneth koch, age 20, appeared in Poetry magazine in 1945. they didn’t really sound like themselves yet. a little bit, but not quite.
*65 years later* ashbery is still with us and writing. koch passed away in ’02, so his “publishing career” spanned 57 years.
youth is good, but getting older is good too. (it isn’t, really, but it might as well be, since we don’t have a choice, right…)
nothing like htmlgiant to make a 28-yr-old feel old.
john ashbery, age 18, and kenneth koch, age 20, appeared in Poetry magazine in 1945. they didn’t really sound like themselves yet. a little bit, but not quite.
*65 years later* ashbery is still with us and writing. koch passed away in ’02, so his “publishing career” spanned 57 years.
youth is good, but getting older is good too. (it isn’t, really, but it might as well be, since we don’t have a choice, right…)
Conrad didn’t start until he was 30 and wrote in his third tongue.
I think Chandler was like 50 when he started, wasn’t he? I could be wrong about this one.
Conrad didn’t start until he was 30 and wrote in his third tongue.
I think Chandler was like 50 when he started, wasn’t he? I could be wrong about this one.
There was this one story in the 2008 NOON by this guy who was I think in his eighties and to my knowledge had never published before. It was an amazing fucking story.
Baumann is really good. I liked Y2K and what I’ve read of his in the Tyrant.
German is just a weak Tao Lin aper. No discernible talent and a skin-crawly hipster affect.
There was this one story in the 2008 NOON by this guy who was I think in his eighties and to my knowledge had never published before. It was an amazing fucking story.
Baumann is really good. I liked Y2K and what I’ve read of his in the Tyrant.
German is just a weak Tao Lin aper. No discernible talent and a skin-crawly hipster affect.
How’d you like to be 39? I think that was what I told Blake about posting here: “I could be the old guy.”
I indeed am.
I’m impressed a lot of these young writers have their own voice. I think that takes a while, or it did.
I think the consistency among these writers is the internet. They can consume so much more information, organized information. They inhale more. And, since net is so filtered, they can inhale the smoke they prefer. I mean it’s like years of centrifuged research, even if they would never call it by that name. There is a sophistication of information.
I think even “well-read” (these young writer are) is easier on the net. Not just online material, but having the advice, opinions, the listing of what to read if you like a, b, c. I mean there is a guide to reading out there, online. This is profound. When I was an undergrad, there was no email or internet. You dug an author or style and maybe two people at the U could point you to others. Now I could have 200,000 people tell me what to read of I like_________.
There could be an argument about talent here, too, the Romantic era talent, inborn…
But that must be matched with work. Seems these guys and gals work hard.
my 2.4 cents
etc
How’d you like to be 39? I think that was what I told Blake about posting here: “I could be the old guy.”
I indeed am.
I’m impressed a lot of these young writers have their own voice. I think that takes a while, or it did.
I think the consistency among these writers is the internet. They can consume so much more information, organized information. They inhale more. And, since net is so filtered, they can inhale the smoke they prefer. I mean it’s like years of centrifuged research, even if they would never call it by that name. There is a sophistication of information.
I think even “well-read” (these young writer are) is easier on the net. Not just online material, but having the advice, opinions, the listing of what to read if you like a, b, c. I mean there is a guide to reading out there, online. This is profound. When I was an undergrad, there was no email or internet. You dug an author or style and maybe two people at the U could point you to others. Now I could have 200,000 people tell me what to read of I like_________.
There could be an argument about talent here, too, the Romantic era talent, inborn…
But that must be matched with work. Seems these guys and gals work hard.
my 2.4 cents
etc
F.X. Toole was 71 when Rope Burns came out. And 69 or 70 when his first story was published in Zyzzyva.
(Old people have kidnapped your post, Alec.)
i don’t understand why ageism is a question?
if an object exists solely as art, how is the age of the author important?
shouldn’t the object be “ageless” if, and only if, in terms of the immediate?
F.X. Toole was 71 when Rope Burns came out. And 69 or 70 when his first story was published in Zyzzyva.
(Old people have kidnapped your post, Alec.)
i don’t understand why ageism is a question?
if an object exists solely as art, how is the age of the author important?
shouldn’t the object be “ageless” if, and only if, in terms of the immediate?
And
I had an intro to CW student last year, Margaret. She was 91.
And
I had an intro to CW student last year, Margaret. She was 91.
I’m not asking about the art object. I’m asking about writing as a social practice.
Man, I thought I was the old guy. And the guy who ran. And then you come along with your couple of years on me and your marathons, making my occasional 5k or six mile run look piddling. Now I’m nobody.
I’m gonna just go ahead and get fat again.
Can I at least be the drunk?
I’m not asking about the art object. I’m asking about writing as a social practice.
Man, I thought I was the old guy. And the guy who ran. And then you come along with your couple of years on me and your marathons, making my occasional 5k or six mile run look piddling. Now I’m nobody.
I’m gonna just go ahead and get fat again.
Can I at least be the drunk?
how in the hell is writing a social practice? i guess i don’t understand this concept.
how in the hell is writing a social practice? i guess i don’t understand this concept.
There are social singularities who write, i.e. people.
There are social singularities who write, i.e. people.
oh i see in the last paragraph. you want validation.
why do you want validation? you seem like you are doing awesome to me.
oh i see in the last paragraph. you want validation.
why do you want validation? you seem like you are doing awesome to me.
yes i understand now.
why do you need to find others similar to you to achieve your singular goal?
Matthew, we need to hang out and settle that drunk thing. Denver?
yes i understand now.
why do you need to find others similar to you to achieve your singular goal?
Matthew, we need to hang out and settle that drunk thing. Denver?
The best students I have are usually older. The best one I have now is 62.
The best students I have are usually older. The best one I have now is 62.
Haha, thanks. Not validation, honestly. Just wanted thoughts. I just think the young writer or young artist is an interesting phenomenon, insofar as he or she is an exception to the rule, I guess, similar to the very old writer. Like Sean’s Margaret.
Haha, thanks. Not validation, honestly. Just wanted thoughts. I just think the young writer or young artist is an interesting phenomenon, insofar as he or she is an exception to the rule, I guess, similar to the very old writer. Like Sean’s Margaret.
really? i think your viewpoint is skewed.
but so may be mine?
i think it is easier to be younger, balls out, and go for what you want to do in life. be that writing, sailing, fucking underage filipino hookers, etc.
when you get older, an emptiness grows (for me at least) and it is more difficult to do “new” things or things that do not provide a result to an immediate need.
i read in a book once that the “emptiness” is existential frustration. i don’t know.
but the way i read your post, it seemed like you were seeking validation, a commonality, and/or a safety. safety really is just another word for comfort.
i think it is good you have these questions alec. you don’t need validation. you don’t need safety.
it is the last thing you need.
really? i think your viewpoint is skewed.
but so may be mine?
i think it is easier to be younger, balls out, and go for what you want to do in life. be that writing, sailing, fucking underage filipino hookers, etc.
when you get older, an emptiness grows (for me at least) and it is more difficult to do “new” things or things that do not provide a result to an immediate need.
i read in a book once that the “emptiness” is existential frustration. i don’t know.
but the way i read your post, it seemed like you were seeking validation, a commonality, and/or a safety. safety really is just another word for comfort.
i think it is good you have these questions alec. you don’t need validation. you don’t need safety.
it is the last thing you need.
i always thought the tao lin ‘clones’ not actual clones but improvements.
i always thought the tao lin ‘clones’ not actual clones but improvements.
I want to know, I guess, what youth means to those who are not-young, and to those who are. I’m not saying these writers should be lumped together simply based on age. That would be ridiculous. I’m asking what they have in common, so I can better understand my situation.
I want to know, I guess, what youth means to those who are not-young, and to those who are. I’m not saying these writers should be lumped together simply based on age. That would be ridiculous. I’m asking what they have in common, so I can better understand my situation.
I’m wondering, rather like Jereme above, why age matters?
With the names mentioned in the post above – and indeed many of the writers I like reading both online and in print – I have no idea of their ages. I don’t care. What informs me as to my opinion of them is their writing and the words they choose to use.
And I absolutely loathe and despise the regular articles about the ‘new young voices’ in literature (and in other art forms, come to that). It’s a little too much “woo! look at us! we’re young and happening!” How very thrilling. Personally, I’d be more interested in the 80 year-old guy mentioned in the comments above – what made *him* start writing at his age? after all that time? – rather than what set off a twenty year-old.
But maybe that’s just me.
I am 38, incidentally. Since you’re probably thinking I’m bitter.
I’m wondering, rather like Jereme above, why age matters?
With the names mentioned in the post above – and indeed many of the writers I like reading both online and in print – I have no idea of their ages. I don’t care. What informs me as to my opinion of them is their writing and the words they choose to use.
And I absolutely loathe and despise the regular articles about the ‘new young voices’ in literature (and in other art forms, come to that). It’s a little too much “woo! look at us! we’re young and happening!” How very thrilling. Personally, I’d be more interested in the 80 year-old guy mentioned in the comments above – what made *him* start writing at his age? after all that time? – rather than what set off a twenty year-old.
But maybe that’s just me.
I am 38, incidentally. Since you’re probably thinking I’m bitter.
Right. It’s weird. Do you think there’s something more authentic to the way you read as an undergrad? The internet as a resource seems like one of those blessing/curse tensions.
Right. It’s weird. Do you think there’s something more authentic to the way you read as an undergrad? The internet as a resource seems like one of those blessing/curse tensions.
nothing like htmlgiant to make a 23-yr-old feel like he’s not working hard or fast enough in his life
nothing like htmlgiant to make a 23-yr-old feel like he’s not working hard or fast enough in his life
I have an opinion on this. But what is young? between 16-26? Or 12-21? Or 9-27….?
I have an opinion on this. But what is young? between 16-26? Or 12-21? Or 9-27….?
Damn, that’s invigorating. Yeah. Rimbaud didn’t seek validation, did he? Maybe I’m just deeply insecure. Thanks Jereme.
Damn, that’s invigorating. Yeah. Rimbaud didn’t seek validation, did he? Maybe I’m just deeply insecure. Thanks Jereme.
Again, I intended to start a conversation, not assert myself in any way. I don’t care about age either, when it comes to the art object itself.
Again, I intended to start a conversation, not assert myself in any way. I don’t care about age either, when it comes to the art object itself.
well, bluntly, youth to the no-longer-youthful can be summed up in two words:
nostalgia & regret
well, bluntly, youth to the no-longer-youthful can be summed up in two words:
nostalgia & regret
exactly. what the fuck is “young”?
time is a construct of man to fetter man. no good comes of time.
good moments just happen. only bad moments happen within the constrictions of “time”.
we are all old and young.
exactly. what the fuck is “young”?
time is a construct of man to fetter man. no good comes of time.
good moments just happen. only bad moments happen within the constrictions of “time”.
we are all old and young.
when you’re young you break lines and call it poetry. then you get old and life breaks you and if you’re lucky you become poetry
when you’re young you break lines and call it poetry. then you get old and life breaks you and if you’re lucky you become poetry
“Take Zachary German. He’s twenty-one, I believe, and while he indeed belongs to a certain class of writers, his style, at a very original pace, moves toward a terminal space, a degree-zero. His work has much to say about contemporary art, culture, and values, on both a level of doing and being. In many ways, he walks the talk of a young Camus. He’s twenty-one. How?”
How what exactly? This is meaningless nonsense.
“Take Zachary German. He’s twenty-one, I believe, and while he indeed belongs to a certain class of writers, his style, at a very original pace, moves toward a terminal space, a degree-zero. His work has much to say about contemporary art, culture, and values, on both a level of doing and being. In many ways, he walks the talk of a young Camus. He’s twenty-one. How?”
How what exactly? This is meaningless nonsense.
Apparently being a young writer right now means writing in the voice of Bret Easton Ellis. Affectless, banal, superficial. Same old, same old. I didn’t like reading 20 year old writers when I was a teenager, or when I was in my twenties, and I certainly have no interest in reading them now that I’m in my 30s. Young writers have nothing very interesting say. They talk about their friends and their clothes and what they had to eat for lunch. They are hyper ambitious and empty. They are more interested in their image and being a name that people recognize then they are in the work. The work is a means to a particularly tacky end. The only 20ish writer I can think of recently who has written anything interesting is D’Agata, who wrote Halls of Fame when he was 25. The rest produce drivel. It’s a real shame, too, because there are a lot of young writers who could apply their Ellis-voice in the service of subject matter beyond their ken.
Apparently being a young writer right now means writing in the voice of Bret Easton Ellis. Affectless, banal, superficial. Same old, same old. I didn’t like reading 20 year old writers when I was a teenager, or when I was in my twenties, and I certainly have no interest in reading them now that I’m in my 30s. Young writers have nothing very interesting say. They talk about their friends and their clothes and what they had to eat for lunch. They are hyper ambitious and empty. They are more interested in their image and being a name that people recognize then they are in the work. The work is a means to a particularly tacky end. The only 20ish writer I can think of recently who has written anything interesting is D’Agata, who wrote Halls of Fame when he was 25. The rest produce drivel. It’s a real shame, too, because there are a lot of young writers who could apply their Ellis-voice in the service of subject matter beyond their ken.
My grandfather turned 102 years old on January 8th. I have news for you: There is not one atom in his body that is young. He is old and that is it. Go tell him that time is a construct. I think he would disagree with you. Time isn’t a phantom; it’s a fact of life, and it’s what gets you in the end.
My grandfather turned 102 years old on January 8th. I have news for you: There is not one atom in his body that is young. He is old and that is it. Go tell him that time is a construct. I think he would disagree with you. Time isn’t a phantom; it’s a fact of life, and it’s what gets you in the end.
Didn’t Mr. Nobel Prize of Blindness say he didn’t write anything good before he turned 60? Can any Saramago fans out there confirm this or was this just another one of the may lies i believed from my pirate-earringed-lavender-bereted-linen-suit-wearin’-French-literature-professor in college?
Didn’t Mr. Nobel Prize of Blindness say he didn’t write anything good before he turned 60? Can any Saramago fans out there confirm this or was this just another one of the may lies i believed from my pirate-earringed-lavender-bereted-linen-suit-wearin’-French-literature-professor in college?
Dude, give Alec a break. HE’S 19.
Dude, give Alec a break. HE’S 19.
How? I was wondering that too. I assumed it was because he was twenty. And before that he nineteen. Clever stuff, this ageing.
How? I was wondering that too. I assumed it was because he was twenty. And before that he nineteen. Clever stuff, this ageing.
there was something
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/10/20/081020fa_fact_gladwell
there was something
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/10/20/081020fa_fact_gladwell
alec,
i hate quoting people because i feel like i should have my own words and/or interpretation but i do believe in this particular quote from some old asian dude which goes:
“a radical mind focuses on radical ideas” or some shit like that.
like i said i’m bad with quotes.
a mind is singular i think.
don’t you think?
alec,
i hate quoting people because i feel like i should have my own words and/or interpretation but i do believe in this particular quote from some old asian dude which goes:
“a radical mind focuses on radical ideas” or some shit like that.
like i said i’m bad with quotes.
a mind is singular i think.
don’t you think?
Is “young” synonymous with age or years writing?
Is “young” synonymous with age or years writing?
Being “young” is so “old.”
Being “young” is so “old.”
Pretty close– he was 45 when he published his first story, 50 when he wrote his first novel.
Pretty close– he was 45 when he published his first story, 50 when he wrote his first novel.
you are misconstruing my definition of time.
your grandfather is 102 years according to gregorian or julian or mayan calendar?
yes, anything with a beginning has an ending. we can all agree on this tenet?
your grandfather is not a victim of time but a victim of his limits.
“102” years old is nothing if he were to live 1000.
but he is at the limits of his body which has no concept of “time”.
like i said, time is a construct of man, to fetter man, to control man, to ensnare man.
a schedule is nothing but control and safety.
you are misconstruing my definition of time.
your grandfather is 102 years according to gregorian or julian or mayan calendar?
yes, anything with a beginning has an ending. we can all agree on this tenet?
your grandfather is not a victim of time but a victim of his limits.
“102” years old is nothing if he were to live 1000.
but he is at the limits of his body which has no concept of “time”.
like i said, time is a construct of man, to fetter man, to control man, to ensnare man.
a schedule is nothing but control and safety.
I’m a half decade older than you, Alec, that age is still fresh in my mind, and I had very similar questions at 19. I think many young writers, to want to be writers, by nature have a precociousness, and as much as it’ll make you cringe later in life it will also be your energy. I think you are possibly at one of the most productive ages you can be. You’re at university, you’re learning more than you’ve ever learned, and you’re writing more than you’ve possibly ever written and taking it seriously as you might never had before. Obviously, what discerns you as the writer you are is quite unrelated to the age you are (the ageists would disagree, including the critics who will call your work from this time frame ‘juvenilia’). I think a writer of 19 with little experience compared with older writers are probably guilty of, if anything, two things. You will probably look at your work from this time, in comparison to your work in five years let’s say, as either derivative, or on the other hand, underdeveloped. This is of course not a rule. My work from that age is for me the latter. I had firmer beliefs in developing my instincts as a writer, in developing flow, which has been very important for me but doesn’t make it any easier to read this work. I think you’re bound to feel either of these things after some years, but this isn’t to say your work seems this way to others (I’ve read a story of yours and found it fascinating).
Most importantly, I think 19 is an age where intellectual development is vertiginous and significant. I envy the pace at which I learned back then, which is not the case now. Being 24, I have different conceits, I’m under the false impression my mind is atrophying impetuously, that I will never have the lability of mind like I had when I was 19. Do your very best to write work that will not make you cringe in five years. Then again, I cringe over work I wrote six months ago. This should be a time for writers to be building productive habits, I think. Either way you will certainly be setting up habits that will stay with you into futurity. But, I don’t think any 19 year old should get bogged down with ideas that they aren’t good enough, experienced enough, mature enough, although I know I regularly felt that way. Everyone envies you I think having authority as a critic, chatting with Dennis Cooper, and being published in journals at 19. Fuck, Burroughs didn’t think he was a writer until he was 38. Guy Maddin the filmmaker was in his words a ‘layabout’ until his thirties.
I’m a half decade older than you, Alec, that age is still fresh in my mind, and I had very similar questions at 19. I think many young writers, to want to be writers, by nature have a precociousness, and as much as it’ll make you cringe later in life it will also be your energy. I think you are possibly at one of the most productive ages you can be. You’re at university, you’re learning more than you’ve ever learned, and you’re writing more than you’ve possibly ever written and taking it seriously as you might never had before. Obviously, what discerns you as the writer you are is quite unrelated to the age you are (the ageists would disagree, including the critics who will call your work from this time frame ‘juvenilia’). I think a writer of 19 with little experience compared with older writers are probably guilty of, if anything, two things. You will probably look at your work from this time, in comparison to your work in five years let’s say, as either derivative, or on the other hand, underdeveloped. This is of course not a rule. My work from that age is for me the latter. I had firmer beliefs in developing my instincts as a writer, in developing flow, which has been very important for me but doesn’t make it any easier to read this work. I think you’re bound to feel either of these things after some years, but this isn’t to say your work seems this way to others (I’ve read a story of yours and found it fascinating).
Most importantly, I think 19 is an age where intellectual development is vertiginous and significant. I envy the pace at which I learned back then, which is not the case now. Being 24, I have different conceits, I’m under the false impression my mind is atrophying impetuously, that I will never have the lability of mind like I had when I was 19. Do your very best to write work that will not make you cringe in five years. Then again, I cringe over work I wrote six months ago. This should be a time for writers to be building productive habits, I think. Either way you will certainly be setting up habits that will stay with you into futurity. But, I don’t think any 19 year old should get bogged down with ideas that they aren’t good enough, experienced enough, mature enough, although I know I regularly felt that way. Everyone envies you I think having authority as a critic, chatting with Dennis Cooper, and being published in journals at 19. Fuck, Burroughs didn’t think he was a writer until he was 38. Guy Maddin the filmmaker was in his words a ‘layabout’ until his thirties.
The difference between 24 and 19 is negligible. One day when you’re 35 you’ll read this post again and cringe.
The difference between 24 and 19 is negligible. One day when you’re 35 you’ll read this post again and cringe.
D’Agata a total badass, amen.
D’Agata a total badass, amen.
Oh, indeed.
Oh, indeed.
Haha!
Haha!
What a load of rubbish. Why do I feel like the internet has time-raped me yet again. Anyone patting themselves on the back at 20 for something as silly-sounding as “stylism” needs to put down the laptop and go work in a lumber mill. That or go write copy for Ikea, I’m sure it pays well.
What a load of rubbish. Why do I feel like the internet has time-raped me yet again. Anyone patting themselves on the back at 20 for something as silly-sounding as “stylism” needs to put down the laptop and go work in a lumber mill. That or go write copy for Ikea, I’m sure it pays well.
im 34 as of a couple weeks ago and my opinion is that 34 is exactly it. until next year. when i was nineteen. back when i was a wee nineteen and 34 minus i was um. i spent my nineteenth bday in fort knox cuntucky. whats writing? i asked. who knows until im 25, i said. meanwhile, the pigeons.
i’m 54 as of a couple of ten years later and my opinion is that 54 is where it is until next year. when i was 34. back when i was a wee thirtysomething and i was. i spent my dirty fourth birthday in girlyfornia. whats writing? i asked. shut up until im 75 and pumpkin headed, i said. meanwhile.
im 34 as of a couple weeks ago and my opinion is that 34 is exactly it. until next year. when i was nineteen. back when i was a wee nineteen and 34 minus i was um. i spent my nineteenth bday in fort knox cuntucky. whats writing? i asked. who knows until im 25, i said. meanwhile, the pigeons.
i’m 54 as of a couple of ten years later and my opinion is that 54 is where it is until next year. when i was 34. back when i was a wee thirtysomething and i was. i spent my dirty fourth birthday in girlyfornia. whats writing? i asked. shut up until im 75 and pumpkin headed, i said. meanwhile.
a long time ago, Oscar Wilde said, “The old-fashioned respect for the young is fast dying out.”
a long time ago, Oscar Wilde said, “The old-fashioned respect for the young is fast dying out.”
I was going to comment on the hagiographic tone of the article, but you just did that. In your own way, I suppose.
Anyway, I think it’s good that these guys are out and writing and putting to use the technology at hand. I don’t have to particularly enjoy the writing to see that.
I was going to comment on the hagiographic tone of the article, but you just did that. In your own way, I suppose.
Anyway, I think it’s good that these guys are out and writing and putting to use the technology at hand. I don’t have to particularly enjoy the writing to see that.
Elizabeth Taylor.
Elizabeth Taylor.
given that you’re only ten years older than me, your crotchetiness is making me feel ancient.
is that how to spell “crotchetiness?” meh. at least i got the “crotch” part right.
given that you’re only ten years older than me, your crotchetiness is making me feel ancient.
is that how to spell “crotchetiness?” meh. at least i got the “crotch” part right.
i just took this quiz that said my true age is “grandfather/grandmother age.”
http://www.allthetests.com/quiz22/quizpu.php?testid=1171615710&katname=
i no longer identify as a “young writer.”
i just took this quiz that said my true age is “grandfather/grandmother age.”
http://www.allthetests.com/quiz22/quizpu.php?testid=1171615710&katname=
i no longer identify as a “young writer.”
For me being a young writer is about hating myself for not having established myself as a “young writer.” It’s a silly, stupid time, and so am I.
For me being a young writer is about hating myself for not having established myself as a “young writer.” It’s a silly, stupid time, and so am I.
i think it’s great, inspiring, what you and the others you mention are doing at your age. was just saying something along those lines with a friend last night. new voices are beautiful. enjoy it, love it, revel in it, fuck the naysayers and do what you will.
i think it’s great, inspiring, what you and the others you mention are doing at your age. was just saying something along those lines with a friend last night. new voices are beautiful. enjoy it, love it, revel in it, fuck the naysayers and do what you will.
I am seven years old. This conversation is awesome.
I am seven years old. This conversation is awesome.
Now that’s pretty funny.
Now that’s pretty funny.
“Ah, but I was so much older then, I’m younger than that now.”
– Bob Dylan
My grandpa used to say “Youth is wasted on the young.”
“Ah, but I was so much older then, I’m younger than that now.”
– Bob Dylan
My grandpa used to say “Youth is wasted on the young.”
Old people are condescending assholes. I’m 120. Don’t listen to them Alec.
Old people are condescending assholes. I’m 120. Don’t listen to them Alec.
I don’t think I could have written anything meaningful at 19, honestly, which isn’t to say that I believe that to be the case for everyone–or anyone–else. I’m a late bloomer, always have been. I was sheltered and oblivious as a kid, and it took a lot of years of experience, of learning how to de-program myself from certain ways of being, of un-thinking, to realize what I wanted to explore, really explore, and how best to go about that.
At 32, sometimes I feel old as a “young writer,” sure, especially when I see the young fellas publishing and steamrolling along. But, come on, I write poems because there’s really no other choice for me. That may sound romantic or overly dramatic or whatever, but it’s true. It’s that one thing in the world I love doing more than anything else.
So, I think the most important thing to remember as a young writer is that you have to sometimes just have to do the writing. Don’t overthink it; don’t worry about what’s going to happen next. Don’t worry about having a theory about what you’re doing all packaged and ready for consumption. Like Cormac McCarthy told Oprah one day about him having any insight into his own writing, and I’m paraphrasing, that’s not my job, it’s yours.
And, I’m just wondering–is there a gender thing going on here? I know there are women who publish at a young age, but who are they?
I don’t think I could have written anything meaningful at 19, honestly, which isn’t to say that I believe that to be the case for everyone–or anyone–else. I’m a late bloomer, always have been. I was sheltered and oblivious as a kid, and it took a lot of years of experience, of learning how to de-program myself from certain ways of being, of un-thinking, to realize what I wanted to explore, really explore, and how best to go about that.
At 32, sometimes I feel old as a “young writer,” sure, especially when I see the young fellas publishing and steamrolling along. But, come on, I write poems because there’s really no other choice for me. That may sound romantic or overly dramatic or whatever, but it’s true. It’s that one thing in the world I love doing more than anything else.
So, I think the most important thing to remember as a young writer is that you have to sometimes just have to do the writing. Don’t overthink it; don’t worry about what’s going to happen next. Don’t worry about having a theory about what you’re doing all packaged and ready for consumption. Like Cormac McCarthy told Oprah one day about him having any insight into his own writing, and I’m paraphrasing, that’s not my job, it’s yours.
And, I’m just wondering–is there a gender thing going on here? I know there are women who publish at a young age, but who are they?
i think publishing may be a gender issue but writing is not…
i think publishing may be a gender issue but writing is not…
chelsea martin, ellen kennedy, brandi wells, kendra grant malone, sasha fletcher…
chelsea martin, ellen kennedy, brandi wells, kendra grant malone, sasha fletcher…
haha, shasha
haha, shasha
you should throw lily and molly in there too because asians don’t really age until they hit their 60’s.
you should throw lily and molly in there too because asians don’t really age until they hit their 60’s.
and i think you can add catherine lacy to the list?
i know she seems like a 90 year old WASP from new york but she is young.
she is publishing.
her accomplishments are what others should strive for to some degree.
and i think you can add catherine lacy to the list?
i know she seems like a 90 year old WASP from new york but she is young.
she is publishing.
her accomplishments are what others should strive for to some degree.
Sean makes a really excellent point here about the Internet. When I found the Internet, a few years ago, I discovered all these writers I’d never heard of, thanks to HTML Giant and other folks’ blogs. And all these writers whose work I read changed me and my writing quite a bit.
Sean makes a really excellent point here about the Internet. When I found the Internet, a few years ago, I discovered all these writers I’d never heard of, thanks to HTML Giant and other folks’ blogs. And all these writers whose work I read changed me and my writing quite a bit.
Most young writers’ vision doesn’t seem to extend past their own shoelaces.
I am twenty-one. Right now I’m assuming that I’m mostly a dumb fuck, and that I won’t be creating really really good shit until like 33. Right now I am just focusing on the habits, putting in the long hours of practice, findings new ways to stay alive to the world, etc.
Most young writers’ vision doesn’t seem to extend past their own shoelaces.
I am twenty-one. Right now I’m assuming that I’m mostly a dumb fuck, and that I won’t be creating really really good shit until like 33. Right now I am just focusing on the habits, putting in the long hours of practice, findings new ways to stay alive to the world, etc.
I heart Joe for this comment.
I heart Joe for this comment.
having trouble reading your tone here, reynard.
Carson McCullers. The Heart Is a Lonely Hunter. Yes!
having trouble reading your tone here, reynard.
Carson McCullers. The Heart Is a Lonely Hunter. Yes!
“Apparently being a young writer right now means writing in the voice of Bret Easton Ellis. Affectless, banal, superficial. Same old, same old. I didn’t like reading 20 year old writers when I was a teenager, or when I was in my twenties, and I certainly have no interest in reading them now that I’m in my 30s. Young writers have nothing very interesting to say.”
I see the same phenomenon – that “no voice” has become a voice used by a large contingent of “young writers.” And I, likewise (at age 18), am not particularly drawn to that aesthetic.
But while I think the real-life experience that comes with age certainly gives a writer more “interesting” things to write about, I don’t think the fact that “Young writers have nothing interesting to say” is what holds them back from generating interesting pieces. They do that to themselves by writing in an “Affectless, banal, superficial” style – a style that might be used by somebody with something more “interesting to say” to create tension in the piece. When someone with a fairly typical adolescent perspective (already “banal” and “superficial”) writes in a “banal” and “superficial” manner, however, the tension is sapped from the writing. It’s unbearably limp. This is my problem with the current “young writer” scene and everything that has been attached to it.
Affectless, banal writing can be great. “Young writers” can be great. In my opinion, what’s produced when the two are combined isn’t.
So, to pose a question to others around my age: if you are a young writer and have nothing interesting to say, shouldn’t you try to say it in an interesting way?
“Apparently being a young writer right now means writing in the voice of Bret Easton Ellis. Affectless, banal, superficial. Same old, same old. I didn’t like reading 20 year old writers when I was a teenager, or when I was in my twenties, and I certainly have no interest in reading them now that I’m in my 30s. Young writers have nothing very interesting to say.”
I see the same phenomenon – that “no voice” has become a voice used by a large contingent of “young writers.” And I, likewise (at age 18), am not particularly drawn to that aesthetic.
But while I think the real-life experience that comes with age certainly gives a writer more “interesting” things to write about, I don’t think the fact that “Young writers have nothing interesting to say” is what holds them back from generating interesting pieces. They do that to themselves by writing in an “Affectless, banal, superficial” style – a style that might be used by somebody with something more “interesting to say” to create tension in the piece. When someone with a fairly typical adolescent perspective (already “banal” and “superficial”) writes in a “banal” and “superficial” manner, however, the tension is sapped from the writing. It’s unbearably limp. This is my problem with the current “young writer” scene and everything that has been attached to it.
Affectless, banal writing can be great. “Young writers” can be great. In my opinion, what’s produced when the two are combined isn’t.
So, to pose a question to others around my age: if you are a young writer and have nothing interesting to say, shouldn’t you try to say it in an interesting way?
My advice to Alex (and the advice I try myself to take): keep thoughts like these (what is young? am I precocious? what can I do to make people call me “genius”?) out of your head. Art is not about age. Embrace community, but do not chase “scenes.” Practice a bunch. Live through your senses. Drink yummy tea.
“Milton says, that the lyric poet may drink wine and live generously, but the epic poet, he who shall sing of the gods, and their descent unto men, must drink water out of a wooden bowl.”-Emerson
Alec*, sorry.
yeah, i didn’t include people whose ages i don’t know.
My advice to Alex (and the advice I try myself to take): keep thoughts like these (what is young? am I precocious? what can I do to make people call me “genius”?) out of your head. Art is not about age. Embrace community, but do not chase “scenes.” Practice a bunch. Live through your senses. Drink yummy tea.
“Milton says, that the lyric poet may drink wine and live generously, but the epic poet, he who shall sing of the gods, and their descent unto men, must drink water out of a wooden bowl.”-Emerson
Alec*, sorry.
yeah, i didn’t include people whose ages i don’t know.
that had little or nothing to do with the initial post. mah bad. rantin’, yo.
that had little or nothing to do with the initial post. mah bad. rantin’, yo.
It was a good post, though. Thank you
sasha isn’t a chick?
It was a good post, though. Thank you
sasha isn’t a chick?
chix w/ dix, silly wabbit
chix w/ dix, silly wabbit
haha! thanks jereme!
haha! thanks jereme!
Though I guess I know more about writing now at 32 than I did at 19, it feels like I know less and that is destabilizing and frightening and very good for my writing. Aging a bit, for me, has provided me more voices and more empathy. Also, I’m interested in a much wider range of stuff now than I was in college. These things all probably go together.
Though I guess I know more about writing now at 32 than I did at 19, it feels like I know less and that is destabilizing and frightening and very good for my writing. Aging a bit, for me, has provided me more voices and more empathy. Also, I’m interested in a much wider range of stuff now than I was in college. These things all probably go together.
yes we do…
yes we do…
sasha is a boy
a man
sasha is a boy
a man
and conrad was writing in his fifth language
and conrad was writing in his fifth language
did he call zachary german a young camus?
did he call zachary german a young camus?
I feel like it’s partially talent and partially a matter of chance, whether a person comes into their voice/style when they’re young or not, finds an audience, etc. I know George Saunders had a late start at writing, and even then it took a good number of years before he really got to where he is today. Sometimes the earliest things you try are triggers for early success, and other times not. Who you’re reading at the time can also make a big difference.
I guess you could compare it to any career, some people are fortunate enough to really find their place at a young age and others are not, and it can take a lot of jumping around before settling on something consistent & successful. I just turned 20, hopefully I there’s not too much literary disillusionment in my future, but hey, if I have to be finishing my MFA at 85, so be it.
Alec – I’ve enjoyed your posts. If you’re ever up around Syracuse NY, we should hang sometime.
I feel like it’s partially talent and partially a matter of chance, whether a person comes into their voice/style when they’re young or not, finds an audience, etc. I know George Saunders had a late start at writing, and even then it took a good number of years before he really got to where he is today. Sometimes the earliest things you try are triggers for early success, and other times not. Who you’re reading at the time can also make a big difference.
I guess you could compare it to any career, some people are fortunate enough to really find their place at a young age and others are not, and it can take a lot of jumping around before settling on something consistent & successful. I just turned 20, hopefully I there’s not too much literary disillusionment in my future, but hey, if I have to be finishing my MFA at 85, so be it.
Alec – I’ve enjoyed your posts. If you’re ever up around Syracuse NY, we should hang sometime.
Don’t recall the exact age, but yeah, Chandler didn’t write (or at least publish) until well into middle age. He was an oil tycoon or something like that and didn’t start writing until after he lost all of his money.
Also, Stan Lee was in his late 30s or 40s, I think, when he created all those hugely profitable intellectual properties: Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, etc.
Don’t recall the exact age, but yeah, Chandler didn’t write (or at least publish) until well into middle age. He was an oil tycoon or something like that and didn’t start writing until after he lost all of his money.
Also, Stan Lee was in his late 30s or 40s, I think, when he created all those hugely profitable intellectual properties: Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, etc.
are you having trouble reading?
are you having trouble reading?
young writer —> tuberculosis
:(
I’m sorry to say
young writer —> tuberculosis
:(
I’m sorry to say
Who knows anymore. This is being written by a 19 year old. I got into the internet literature phase at about 21 22. ‘Youth’ is a lot of copying, which is fine, but going out and living actually gives you a better perspective in my opinion. Go fuck up your life, chase random women/men around. Do things you know aren’t ‘good’. I just don’t like judging anymore, I don’t care. If someone is putting in the time, then more power to them. If it’s helping them suffer less (or more, depending on how masochistic they are) then right on.
Comparing a 21 year old to Camus though. Whew. Reaching there….
Who knows anymore. This is being written by a 19 year old. I got into the internet literature phase at about 21 22. ‘Youth’ is a lot of copying, which is fine, but going out and living actually gives you a better perspective in my opinion. Go fuck up your life, chase random women/men around. Do things you know aren’t ‘good’. I just don’t like judging anymore, I don’t care. If someone is putting in the time, then more power to them. If it’s helping them suffer less (or more, depending on how masochistic they are) then right on.
Comparing a 21 year old to Camus though. Whew. Reaching there….
Polish then French then English. What did I miss? Or you’re joking and I’m stupid.
Polish then French then English. What did I miss? Or you’re joking and I’m stupid.
It doesn’t matter when.
It only matters how good.
It doesn’t matter when.
It only matters how good.
I hope someday Zachary German will learn that being a dick is actually not cool. He has a weird sort of talent, but he’s so misanthropic and distant from the world that he throws it away on what he thinks are witty one-liners. I’d be interested to know what he actually thinks, but any time I’ve tried to talk to him, he’s just said mean things and glared at me.
I hope someday Zachary German will learn that being a dick is actually not cool. He has a weird sort of talent, but he’s so misanthropic and distant from the world that he throws it away on what he thinks are witty one-liners. I’d be interested to know what he actually thinks, but any time I’ve tried to talk to him, he’s just said mean things and glared at me.
oh shit
oh shit
10,000 is the key amount of time, “they” say, that you ought to put into a craft before you become a master at it. It is impossible to have done 10,000 hours when you are 20 or 21. It is very difficult to do it even by the time you are 30. The most crucial thing is to at least get *started* when you’re young.
That is, if you believe that.
I think there might be something to it.
Hm, I meant that to be a general comment at the bottom of the page, not a response to Mae’s comment.
ZZZIPP TOO, FEELS OLD… at nineteen he fell into a crowd of electrons who spent all of their time doing drugs and rotating backwards…
i’m in the same boat as MS, just not a regular on here … i’m about to turn 37. i wrote in college and then went to law school and had kids and stayed married and then last year began writing again.
similar to what sean said, when i was in college there was very little internet usage. no online publishing. everything was done regular mail.
10,000 is the key amount of time, “they” say, that you ought to put into a craft before you become a master at it. It is impossible to have done 10,000 hours when you are 20 or 21. It is very difficult to do it even by the time you are 30. The most crucial thing is to at least get *started* when you’re young.
That is, if you believe that.
I think there might be something to it.
Hm, I meant that to be a general comment at the bottom of the page, not a response to Mae’s comment.
ZZZIPP TOO, FEELS OLD… at nineteen he fell into a crowd of electrons who spent all of their time doing drugs and rotating backwards…
i’m in the same boat as MS, just not a regular on here … i’m about to turn 37. i wrote in college and then went to law school and had kids and stayed married and then last year began writing again.
similar to what sean said, when i was in college there was very little internet usage. no online publishing. everything was done regular mail.
hmm, those work but i’d add shame
hmm, those work but i’d add shame
the next morning who is up for a 5K?
the next morning who is up for a 5K?
great quote, heard that in my head before reading your post (lie)
great quote, heard that in my head before reading your post (lie)
I think Malcolm Gladwell’s ‘10,000-Hour Rule’ is probably bullshit, but practicing something for 10,000 hours certainly can’t hurt…
I think Malcolm Gladwell’s ‘10,000-Hour Rule’ is probably bullshit, but practicing something for 10,000 hours certainly can’t hurt…
Isn’t that “they” Malcolm Gladwell? I understand that true mastery takes a long time to achieve, but to me the 10000 number has always seemed like floof. It may take some people that long, but I don’t see why it wouldn’t take others a radically shorter/longer time—especially when the craft at hand is something as cognitive/imaginative as writing and not, say, a sport.
Isn’t that “they” Malcolm Gladwell? I understand that true mastery takes a long time to achieve, but to me the 10000 number has always seemed like floof. It may take some people that long, but I don’t see why it wouldn’t take others a radically shorter/longer time—especially when the craft at hand is something as cognitive/imaginative as writing and not, say, a sport.
whatsup douglas haddow?
Psychotic babble.
whatsup douglas haddow?
Psychotic babble.
I like your point about fucking up. I think the accumulated fuck ups, through the years, have made all the difference in my writing.
Out of curiosity I read some of the work of the young Camus in question and…um, maybe this is a generation gap thing, but writing that performs the work of being bored with everything in the whole world (eye roll, foot stomp, sigh) is really, well, boring. I would rather read a book that attempts to make a connection, even just at the level of language (as Camus does). Or pick my toenails. This is a taste issue I guess, but…I just don’t see the brilliance here. Maybe I need to read more, but I’m inclined to obey writing that seems to desire to repel readers.
I like your point about fucking up. I think the accumulated fuck ups, through the years, have made all the difference in my writing.
Out of curiosity I read some of the work of the young Camus in question and…um, maybe this is a generation gap thing, but writing that performs the work of being bored with everything in the whole world (eye roll, foot stomp, sigh) is really, well, boring. I would rather read a book that attempts to make a connection, even just at the level of language (as Camus does). Or pick my toenails. This is a taste issue I guess, but…I just don’t see the brilliance here. Maybe I need to read more, but I’m inclined to obey writing that seems to desire to repel readers.
Agreed.
Agreed.
got it! haha! no, jereme, sasha is a boy.
got it! haha! no, jereme, sasha is a boy.
Some very discouraging comments around it seems. No wonder it’s hard for some young writers to believe in their work. Fuck, it’s hard for any of us to believe in our work. I’m all for lots of fuck ups and yummy tea. The only other thing I think it’s worth you thinking about, Alec, is the notion that style is not something worth working towards. Deleuze speaks about style emerging from the intra-connectivity of works as a part of an oeuvre as it itself emerges. It’s your trace after-the-fact. I couldn’t agree more, I think you must do the work honestly and thoroughly. Massumi, as you’ll read in the coming weeks, sees this kind of perspective as anti-event, and although valuable for criticism is perhaps vitiating if one thinks about it as they work.
Some very discouraging comments around it seems. No wonder it’s hard for some young writers to believe in their work. Fuck, it’s hard for any of us to believe in our work. I’m all for lots of fuck ups and yummy tea. The only other thing I think it’s worth you thinking about, Alec, is the notion that style is not something worth working towards. Deleuze speaks about style emerging from the intra-connectivity of works as a part of an oeuvre as it itself emerges. It’s your trace after-the-fact. I couldn’t agree more, I think you must do the work honestly and thoroughly. Massumi, as you’ll read in the coming weeks, sees this kind of perspective as anti-event, and although valuable for criticism is perhaps vitiating if one thinks about it as they work.
I’ll totally *vomit* run the whole 5 *vomit* k!
I’ll totally *vomit* run the whole 5 *vomit* k!
Alec,
Here’s what I think: I started publishing in my 30s. I did so because I also started writing work for submission in my 30s. And it took a couple of years for me to also find a voice. That you, that Ken, that Zachary German, that some writers in their 20s have found their way to a satisfying, comfortable voice in your 20s is a gift. Work it out. In envy you for finding it early on. Might be that you find another, more satisfying path later. Take the path. I will follow you. I’ll watch. A lot of us will.
Kick some ass, son. Kick some ass, daughter.
Alec,
Here’s what I think: I started publishing in my 30s. I did so because I also started writing work for submission in my 30s. And it took a couple of years for me to also find a voice. That you, that Ken, that Zachary German, that some writers in their 20s have found their way to a satisfying, comfortable voice in your 20s is a gift. Work it out. In envy you for finding it early on. Might be that you find another, more satisfying path later. Take the path. I will follow you. I’ll watch. A lot of us will.
Kick some ass, son. Kick some ass, daughter.
Great advice, Corey. Thanks. I don’t know about everyone else, but my work has suffered tremendously in the past from self-conscious stylizing. From laying out style as an event. Can’t wait to read these Massumi posts.
Great advice, Corey. Thanks. I don’t know about everyone else, but my work has suffered tremendously in the past from self-conscious stylizing. From laying out style as an event. Can’t wait to read these Massumi posts.
hell yeah
hell yeah
Thank you, Matthew. That’s mostly what my orientation toward the work is at this point–a total openness to any number of paths. All of the moms, dads, daughters and sons of the world should kick some ass. But not each other’s asses, because that would be abusive, and a crime.
I just want to say, I didn’t mean for this post to be about me, at all. And I’m sorry for making it seem so. I can understand if anyone interpreting my post as such now thinks of me as a jackass or something. I included myself in the post because I wanted to clarify why exactly this is a compelling issue for me, though certainly not anything too broad in scope. A question mostly about writers rather than writing.
I also didn’t mean to compare Zachary German to Camus as we know him. I meant that Zachary German writes like how I imagine a young Camus writing.
Thank you, Matthew. That’s mostly what my orientation toward the work is at this point–a total openness to any number of paths. All of the moms, dads, daughters and sons of the world should kick some ass. But not each other’s asses, because that would be abusive, and a crime.
I just want to say, I didn’t mean for this post to be about me, at all. And I’m sorry for making it seem so. I can understand if anyone interpreting my post as such now thinks of me as a jackass or something. I included myself in the post because I wanted to clarify why exactly this is a compelling issue for me, though certainly not anything too broad in scope. A question mostly about writers rather than writing.
I also didn’t mean to compare Zachary German to Camus as we know him. I meant that Zachary German writes like how I imagine a young Camus writing.
The under 10 set are really pushing the envelope these days.
The under 10 set are really pushing the envelope these days.
White DIamonds!
White DIamonds!
You guys really know how to make those of us in our 30s feel like perhaps we should reserve our spots in the nursing home. Thank you for that.
Everything I wrote in my teens and 20s was pretty ridiculous. As a writer, my 30s have been fucking awesome. I could make a cheesy analogy about voices maturing like wine but I need to drink this can of Ensure and change my Depends real quick.
You guys really know how to make those of us in our 30s feel like perhaps we should reserve our spots in the nursing home. Thank you for that.
Everything I wrote in my teens and 20s was pretty ridiculous. As a writer, my 30s have been fucking awesome. I could make a cheesy analogy about voices maturing like wine but I need to drink this can of Ensure and change my Depends real quick.
Fuck Gladwell. Are you joking. We aren’t listening to Gladwell. Go write.
Fuck Gladwell. Are you joking. We aren’t listening to Gladwell. Go write.
Interesting thread – fuck, a lot of comments too – but I think that the boring answer is that its different for everybody and it depends. I hate that, it makes me sound like Im trying to be a diplomat. A lot of my favorite writers didnt start until middle age or even older. I know I couldnt write anything worth a shit when I was in my teens and early twenty’s. I had to go and live for a while, and let life kick several rounds of shit out of me before i could crawl back and have something to say or an understanding of how i wanted to say it. Writers like Tao and Zachary do a totally different type of writing that is entirely informed by the experience of being young.
For the record I like Zachary’s stuff a hell of a lot. I saw him read the first time at the Dennis Cooper / userlands thing, and I remember being totally blown away by his writing and his persona, which seemed almost impossibly perfectly formed for someone so young. Reading “Eat When You Feel Sad” at the moment and I think that it’s an amazing piece of writing. I like Tao’s stuff, and don’t have much patience for the many, many writers who write like Tao as most of it seems like a boring facsimile, but to lump Zachary in with all of that just because they are friends, share a publisher and read together often is pretty lazy. Zachary’s stuff has a voice all of its own, and even a quick read through his stuff will reveal that he has aims an intentions in his work that is totally divorced from what Tao is doing.
Interesting thread – fuck, a lot of comments too – but I think that the boring answer is that its different for everybody and it depends. I hate that, it makes me sound like Im trying to be a diplomat. A lot of my favorite writers didnt start until middle age or even older. I know I couldnt write anything worth a shit when I was in my teens and early twenty’s. I had to go and live for a while, and let life kick several rounds of shit out of me before i could crawl back and have something to say or an understanding of how i wanted to say it. Writers like Tao and Zachary do a totally different type of writing that is entirely informed by the experience of being young.
For the record I like Zachary’s stuff a hell of a lot. I saw him read the first time at the Dennis Cooper / userlands thing, and I remember being totally blown away by his writing and his persona, which seemed almost impossibly perfectly formed for someone so young. Reading “Eat When You Feel Sad” at the moment and I think that it’s an amazing piece of writing. I like Tao’s stuff, and don’t have much patience for the many, many writers who write like Tao as most of it seems like a boring facsimile, but to lump Zachary in with all of that just because they are friends, share a publisher and read together often is pretty lazy. Zachary’s stuff has a voice all of its own, and even a quick read through his stuff will reveal that he has aims an intentions in his work that is totally divorced from what Tao is doing.
I believe Stan Lee had been in the comic business from the age of 18. SPIDERMAN and FANTASTIC FOUR were written in a “Go For It!” moment when Marvel was about to go belly up, and he decided “Why Not?” – but he had already been in the business for some twenty years or so…
I believe Stan Lee had been in the comic business from the age of 18. SPIDERMAN and FANTASTIC FOUR were written in a “Go For It!” moment when Marvel was about to go belly up, and he decided “Why Not?” – but he had already been in the business for some twenty years or so…
George Bernard Shaw (attributed)
George Bernard Shaw (attributed)
There was also a story in 2008 Noon, or it might have been 2009, by Dylan Nice who is 22 or 23.
There was also a story in 2008 Noon, or it might have been 2009, by Dylan Nice who is 22 or 23.
Here is what it means, you drink whiskey instead of beer, and the morning after eats it harder. I wouldn’t get too caught up in generational modes. Young and old are basically states-of-mind. If people share similarities I’d say it is because they’re embedded in the same culture, blaming it on the kids or what have you leads nowhere…
Here is what it means, you drink whiskey instead of beer, and the morning after eats it harder. I wouldn’t get too caught up in generational modes. Young and old are basically states-of-mind. If people share similarities I’d say it is because they’re embedded in the same culture, blaming it on the kids or what have you leads nowhere…
Yeah, wow…I had no idea everybody was so young! It’s a weird feeling, since in my everyday life at 31 I’m usually the baby in the room. Oh, sadness.
I’m incredibly envious of writers who find their voices and calling so young like many of you seem to have done.. I would say, just from my own limited experience and observation, that the biggest pitfall for very young writers is the tendancy to be self-obsessed in their writing. I know when I got older and started writing again, my subject matter was completely different and much more wide-ranging, and when I look back on the stuff I wrote in my early twenties, it’s so narcissistic it makes me cringe. There seems to be a market for that kind of stuff now, so I guess it’s fine to write that way, but at thirty plus I find I can’t read a lot of that stuff. I’m just too old to get it already. Not that you write that way, Alec, or Ken either. But I wonder how many of your contemporaries will stay stuck in that sort of insular self-obsession since people are willing to publish and celebrate it now?
Anyway, don’t worry. Relax and give yourself room to have some non-writing adventures–at least, that’s my advice. Maybe not to succeed in writing, but certainly to be happy in life. But WTF do I know? I’m sure when I’m forty I’ll look at thirty year old me and just laugh my ass off.
Yeah, wow…I had no idea everybody was so young! It’s a weird feeling, since in my everyday life at 31 I’m usually the baby in the room. Oh, sadness.
I’m incredibly envious of writers who find their voices and calling so young like many of you seem to have done.. I would say, just from my own limited experience and observation, that the biggest pitfall for very young writers is the tendancy to be self-obsessed in their writing. I know when I got older and started writing again, my subject matter was completely different and much more wide-ranging, and when I look back on the stuff I wrote in my early twenties, it’s so narcissistic it makes me cringe. There seems to be a market for that kind of stuff now, so I guess it’s fine to write that way, but at thirty plus I find I can’t read a lot of that stuff. I’m just too old to get it already. Not that you write that way, Alec, or Ken either. But I wonder how many of your contemporaries will stay stuck in that sort of insular self-obsession since people are willing to publish and celebrate it now?
Anyway, don’t worry. Relax and give yourself room to have some non-writing adventures–at least, that’s my advice. Maybe not to succeed in writing, but certainly to be happy in life. But WTF do I know? I’m sure when I’m forty I’ll look at thirty year old me and just laugh my ass off.
Alec, the bottom line is that people get frustrated and jealous as artists, and “the comments section” is a good place to vent. Like the new college forum, you know? Your post felt genuine. You asked a legit question and got some okay answers and some hogwash ;)
Alec, the bottom line is that people get frustrated and jealous as artists, and “the comments section” is a good place to vent. Like the new college forum, you know? Your post felt genuine. You asked a legit question and got some okay answers and some hogwash ;)
I wasn’t trying to be ____ about Alec, I was truly asking what he considers young. I once read this vampire book in high school written by a girl who was 12 or 13 and it was amazing. I really enjoyed it. I really believe age matters yet it doesn’t. Jereme’s idea about time is true. The future/present/past is all happening simultaneously, not in linear fashion. So your 102 year old grandfather is a victim of a construct of linear time that affects his atoms, because thought has a reverse channel into your atomic structure, and even though they act on their own accord, they can be manipulated by pure thought (a thought itself is built up of chemical movements, and chemicals are atoms/quarks/muons/gluons/etc, therefore a thought has actual matter). To move beyond the construct of time, truly, by reinventing the way you think about time will affect your atomic structural activity and consequently how you age.
Off track. I meant to say, my opinion is: I was first published at 19. I wrote a poem that will stand as the “great poem” from that period of my development. I think I was ahead of the curve for others my age. I didn’t think so, but from the reactions of my teachers, friends, nonfriends, other writers, editors (who didn’t know my age but would request my work), I garnered that maybe I wasn’t where I should (quote) be at my age (end quote). Everyone has perhaps 5-10 GREAT pieces in them that come out from different periods of their lives, those timeless pieces. So being young is good — aging is better.
But it shouldn’t be some amazing thing. What is exciting though, is the room for improvement. Where you’ll be in 50 years is quite exciting. Will you progress or degress? Now that I am about to turn 25, my writing from those 16-19/20 years seems so far away… It took a real life changing situation of being homeless and performing intensely for a year, reading, writing, and really coming to terms with being me, before my writing opened up.
I think being a “young” writer (once again, young, to me is 40, 45, but I will go by what I believe Alec’s terms are) means you are still somewhat closed, no matter your intelligence. There is still room for experience. I mean living, here. Of having your brain blown open. Epiphany. And you have many of those.
I wasn’t trying to be ____ about Alec, I was truly asking what he considers young. I once read this vampire book in high school written by a girl who was 12 or 13 and it was amazing. I really enjoyed it. I really believe age matters yet it doesn’t. Jereme’s idea about time is true. The future/present/past is all happening simultaneously, not in linear fashion. So your 102 year old grandfather is a victim of a construct of linear time that affects his atoms, because thought has a reverse channel into your atomic structure, and even though they act on their own accord, they can be manipulated by pure thought (a thought itself is built up of chemical movements, and chemicals are atoms/quarks/muons/gluons/etc, therefore a thought has actual matter). To move beyond the construct of time, truly, by reinventing the way you think about time will affect your atomic structural activity and consequently how you age.
Off track. I meant to say, my opinion is: I was first published at 19. I wrote a poem that will stand as the “great poem” from that period of my development. I think I was ahead of the curve for others my age. I didn’t think so, but from the reactions of my teachers, friends, nonfriends, other writers, editors (who didn’t know my age but would request my work), I garnered that maybe I wasn’t where I should (quote) be at my age (end quote). Everyone has perhaps 5-10 GREAT pieces in them that come out from different periods of their lives, those timeless pieces. So being young is good — aging is better.
But it shouldn’t be some amazing thing. What is exciting though, is the room for improvement. Where you’ll be in 50 years is quite exciting. Will you progress or degress? Now that I am about to turn 25, my writing from those 16-19/20 years seems so far away… It took a real life changing situation of being homeless and performing intensely for a year, reading, writing, and really coming to terms with being me, before my writing opened up.
I think being a “young” writer (once again, young, to me is 40, 45, but I will go by what I believe Alec’s terms are) means you are still somewhat closed, no matter your intelligence. There is still room for experience. I mean living, here. Of having your brain blown open. Epiphany. And you have many of those.
yes he did.
yes he did.
(wrote my first creative piece in third grade on my father’s typewriter, been writing consistently, if not every day every other day, with short periods of break in my 18s, since then)
(wrote my first creative piece in third grade on my father’s typewriter, been writing consistently, if not every day every other day, with short periods of break in my 18s, since then)
young bastards
young bastards
nah, i thought this was interesting. i think you and i are on the same page re: voice. my (only? lol) problem is that sometimes i get so caught up in the sonics and phrase-turning that i feel like a total dummy when it comes to actual, you know, plotting. SO MAYBE my writing is more “involving” than the superficially mannered writer of the same age (22) BUT won’t that change when that guy is adding style upon a strong comprehension of narrative while i’m still struggling to tame my chimeras, thinking it is crazy that anybody can write a story over 400 words.
nah, i thought this was interesting. i think you and i are on the same page re: voice. my (only? lol) problem is that sometimes i get so caught up in the sonics and phrase-turning that i feel like a total dummy when it comes to actual, you know, plotting. SO MAYBE my writing is more “involving” than the superficially mannered writer of the same age (22) BUT won’t that change when that guy is adding style upon a strong comprehension of narrative while i’m still struggling to tame my chimeras, thinking it is crazy that anybody can write a story over 400 words.
haha
i went to his home page and i’m already grossed out
haha
i went to his home page and i’m already grossed out
All this sounds like a “in my day” comment, I think it’s pretty much impossible for most of the HTML Giant folk to imagine having to discover and explore literature without the web. I did a lot of exploring before and a lot afterward, and they were two very different animals.
All this sounds like a “in my day” comment, I think it’s pretty much impossible for most of the HTML Giant folk to imagine having to discover and explore literature without the web. I did a lot of exploring before and a lot afterward, and they were two very different animals.
So true. We’re all about some internet literature magazine blogs of the future.
So true. We’re all about some internet literature magazine blogs of the future.
david,
i have no concept of shame. sorry.
david,
i have no concept of shame. sorry.
lucky you, jereme
i feel shame sometimes about shit i did (or didn’t do) as a kid. usually it involves getting picked on and not standing up and not being a hero and all that. i had it pretty good but sometimes i think back to little events and just get all hot and bothered and hit the heavy bag or write and then i forget about such things for a few months and then repeat, etc.
lucky you, jereme
i feel shame sometimes about shit i did (or didn’t do) as a kid. usually it involves getting picked on and not standing up and not being a hero and all that. i had it pretty good but sometimes i think back to little events and just get all hot and bothered and hit the heavy bag or write and then i forget about such things for a few months and then repeat, etc.
I would never call myself a young writer, but being a young person consumed with reading and writing is terrifying. The internet expands access to material, but also creates an infinite awareness of how many people are disposed to the same aspirations as you. Were it not for my clinical narcissism, I would have stopped writing by now.
I would never call myself a young writer, but being a young person consumed with reading and writing is terrifying. The internet expands access to material, but also creates an infinite awareness of how many people are disposed to the same aspirations as you. Were it not for my clinical narcissism, I would have stopped writing by now.
shame is the jacket weighing heavy around your neck.
if the jacket is wet, david, then simply shed the cloth.
shed all cloth until you are finally naked and beautiful.
shame is the jacket weighing heavy around your neck.
if the jacket is wet, david, then simply shed the cloth.
shed all cloth until you are finally naked and beautiful.
Ah, if shedding shame (morality) was as easy as taking off a jacket…I wonder about the depth of character or honesty of people who say it is that easy.
Ah, if shedding shame (morality) was as easy as taking off a jacket…I wonder about the depth of character or honesty of people who say it is that easy.
depends on how ornate and/or restricting the jacket be.
depends on how ornate and/or restricting the jacket be.
and what you fail to realize mather, at least in your response, is the point i am conveying.
i’ll make it simpler.
until you can be comfortable with your nakedness then you will never fit right in clothes.
i’m not dumbing it down any more than that kid.
and what you fail to realize mather, at least in your response, is the point i am conveying.
i’ll make it simpler.
until you can be comfortable with your nakedness then you will never fit right in clothes.
i’m not dumbing it down any more than that kid.
Yes I understood your point jereme, but that kind of Tibetan advice sounds smug to me. I have known too many people who claimed to have shed that jacket but obviously had not. People who have shed that jacket do not try to make people feel ashamed for feeling shame. Or pretend to be the Dolly Lama of HTML GIANT.
Yes I understood your point jereme, but that kind of Tibetan advice sounds smug to me. I have known too many people who claimed to have shed that jacket but obviously had not. People who have shed that jacket do not try to make people feel ashamed for feeling shame. Or pretend to be the Dolly Lama of HTML GIANT.
Hey boychick, this blog post is the best one yet out of countless posts on HTML Giant…
for me to poop on!
Hey boychick, this blog post is the best one yet out of countless posts on HTML Giant…
for me to poop on!
And Tony O’Neill is the best writer of all….
for me to poop on!
And Tony O’Neill is the best writer of all….
for me to poop on!
Criticizing Alec and his stylism is like booing at the Special Olympics.
Criticizing Alec and his stylism is like booing at the Special Olympics.
Laughed at this one.
Laughed at this one.
As for Zach German, he must have humped Dennis Johnson’s leg to get his poop published.
As for Zach German, he must have humped Dennis Johnson’s leg to get his poop published.
I’d like to know that little pisher Ken Baumann’s favorite fire hydrant.
I’d like to know that little pisher Ken Baumann’s favorite fire hydrant.
This deep into a thread, is there much else to do? Haiku?
Too drunk for Sunday.
Twenty-six and not published.
I hate myself. Ugh.
This deep into a thread, is there much else to do? Haiku?
Too drunk for Sunday.
Twenty-six and not published.
I hate myself. Ugh.
[…] me recently was a comment made by “Jereme” over at HtmlGiant on an article titled What Does it mean to be a young writer today. His comment was as follows: you are misconstruing my definition of […]
I will be 62 on June 4. (Bragging, not kvetching.)