Power Quote
In which I kick off ‘Mean Week’ with a quote from Lyn Hejinian that seems to implicate us all
Whether by fate, chance, contingency, purposelessness, irrelevance, or best
of all, uncertainty, we are thrown around, sometimes
at each other, and no matter whether the narrative is plot-based
or character-based, we are thrown from each other
in the end, carrying borrowed being, turning round
and round. “I’m going to color outside
the lines of reggae,” A proclaims; scenery makes a difference
and with it a new personality, but what about the dog
gazing rapturously into A’s face? It’s clear that he or she is alert
to small phrasings as well as to the water level
in the creek. But, in the end, he or she will drown
in the type of creek it seems to be, a flow of sympathy
over rocks, silt, the bones of a mule, past
laurel trees and sunbathers, under suds
and water-skeeters, to Mexico and the Pacific
and to xerox — as if that would keep things
in print. To pull experience out from under
the floating oak leaves would be an act of ingratitude
and betrayal. But to meet K and M would be an honor
and a pleasure as long as no one expects me to speak.
– The Fatalist, pp. 71-72
Tags: Lyn Hejinian, the fatalist
Love this book.
Love this book.
Just love god damn Lyn Hejinian. I don’t feel capable of meanness after being bathed in her awesomeness.
Just love god damn Lyn Hejinian. I don’t feel capable of meanness after being bathed in her awesomeness.
is it okay to feel no connection to the excerpt whatsoever?
does this not make me literate?
is it okay to feel no connection to the excerpt whatsoever?
does this not make me literate?
I’m with Michael. I hate to get the meanness started by directing it at you, Blake, but what exactly am I supposed to feel implicated in here? Mostly I feel like a very small amount of my time has been wasted–again, since I’ve actually read The Fatalist in its entirety.
I’m with Michael. I hate to get the meanness started by directing it at you, Blake, but what exactly am I supposed to feel implicated in here? Mostly I feel like a very small amount of my time has been wasted–again, since I’ve actually read The Fatalist in its entirety.
i will continue in the spirit of the mean by saying if you can’t figure it out, call yr buddy harold bloom and maybe he’ll help you get an opinion :P
i will continue in the spirit of the mean by saying if you can’t figure it out, call yr buddy harold bloom and maybe he’ll help you get an opinion :P
don’t feel bad, Justin, my undergrads have trouble with hejinian too
don’t feel bad, Justin, my undergrads have trouble with hejinian too
If I remember correctly, this book consists of cut-ups of sent e-mails. I don’t know how this affects the discussion, or if it should.
I’ve never heard Bloom mention Hejinian. She’s not mentioned in the lists at the end of Western Canon–I checked. Anyway, it was my mistake to feign ignorance re the above-quoted. I should have eschewed rhetoric altogether and simply stated plain my absolute disinterest in the Seventh Grade Yearbook Coded Messages School of Poetry. It’s as flighty and forgettable as it is hermetic, though I’ll grant that it’s nice to see a glitter gel pen put to good use. SWAK, guys!
If I remember correctly, this book consists of cut-ups of sent e-mails. I don’t know how this affects the discussion, or if it should.
I’ve never heard Bloom mention Hejinian. She’s not mentioned in the lists at the end of Western Canon–I checked. Anyway, it was my mistake to feign ignorance re the above-quoted. I should have eschewed rhetoric altogether and simply stated plain my absolute disinterest in the Seventh Grade Yearbook Coded Messages School of Poetry. It’s as flighty and forgettable as it is hermetic, though I’ll grant that it’s nice to see a glitter gel pen put to good use. SWAK, guys!
you mean you don’t have him in yr cell phone? that’s ok, he probably can’t get msgs deep in his thronerome surrounded by tracts and beluga, wearing a shirt with his own face on it, massaged by men he forces to dress up in the manuscript pages of his own reviews. “call me the canonmaster, damn it!”
you mean you don’t have him in yr cell phone? that’s ok, he probably can’t get msgs deep in his thronerome surrounded by tracts and beluga, wearing a shirt with his own face on it, massaged by men he forces to dress up in the manuscript pages of his own reviews. “call me the canonmaster, damn it!”
hehe. i think we’re going to have to have a whole bloom thread
hehe. i think we’re going to have to have a whole bloom thread
Bloom deserves a very long thread on HTML g.
I just pick up “Where Shall Wisdom Be Found” for ten cents at my local liberry.
Bloom deserves a very long thread on HTML g.
I just pick up “Where Shall Wisdom Be Found” for ten cents at my local liberry.
‘Seventh Grade Yearbook Coded Messages School of Poetry’
Tell me what you think Finnegans Wake is.
‘Seventh Grade Yearbook Coded Messages School of Poetry’
Tell me what you think Finnegans Wake is.
1) An art object.
2) The novel pushed past not to, but actually past its terminal point, and so see #1.
3) Another book I used to own, and own no longer.
1) An art object.
2) The novel pushed past not to, but actually past its terminal point, and so see #1.
3) Another book I used to own, and own no longer.
Seems like words to me.
How has it pushed past a terminal point? What is a terminal point for the novel as a form?
Why isn’t the excerpt above 1 & 2?
Seems like words to me.
How has it pushed past a terminal point? What is a terminal point for the novel as a form?
Why isn’t the excerpt above 1 & 2?
I think it might be beneficial to think of the piece of writing without worrying about who wrote it or what school they belong to. Relieved of this unnecessary burden, you’re free to approach it like you would approach anything else, that is, “words on paper that you are reading and thinking about.” Just *pretend* it wasn’t written by Hejinian, but by a Bloom-certified poetic practitioner. Or just pretend you found it on a scrap of paper by the side of the road somewhere in, like, New Mexico. “What’s this? I say, this is a mystery indeed. What are these words? From whence did they come? What am I to do with them?….”
I think it might be beneficial to think of the piece of writing without worrying about who wrote it or what school they belong to. Relieved of this unnecessary burden, you’re free to approach it like you would approach anything else, that is, “words on paper that you are reading and thinking about.” Just *pretend* it wasn’t written by Hejinian, but by a Bloom-certified poetic practitioner. Or just pretend you found it on a scrap of paper by the side of the road somewhere in, like, New Mexico. “What’s this? I say, this is a mystery indeed. What are these words? From whence did they come? What am I to do with them?….”
@Ken, even though it won’t let me respond to his comment directly-
Not everything made of words is a book, and not every book is a novel. For me, Finnegans is not a novel–it’s something else, not better or worse necessarily, just other. Its ridiculous to compare The Fatalist to the Wake. One is the product of a lifetime’s effort, and the other is basically a one-off collage. It’s not fair to either of their projecs.
Hejinian’s excerpt is not an example of my #2 because it is a book-length prose-poem collage, and does not aspire to be considered as fiction. I wonder if the Wake does either. But anyway. As far as why it’s not my #1- it might well be, for I know, or care, which is really the important thing. The work doesn’t interest me sufficiently to warrant my sustained engagement. I understand that it may interest others, and if so, bully for them. But I find it a waste of time–not everybody’s time, but my own. I feel like I’ve done a pretty good job of sketching the contours of my disinterest. I’m capable of further detailing my own sense of what Hejinian’s work lacks, ie why I find it uninteresting, but I feel like you/this thread is coming from the position that the Hejinian is canonical or otherwise excellent, and then defying me to prove why it’s not. I can’t do that, or anyway, I refuse to try.
But I’ll tell you what I will do. I’ll stick a note on my Google calendar for this date ten years from now. If we all live, and the world doesn’t end, and gmail still exists. I’ll remind you of this conversation when I see the note. My money is you won’t remember a thing about Lyn Hejinian or her silly disposable book. Then, when that happens, you’ll see what I was talking about today, and you can buy me a beer or something.
@Ken, even though it won’t let me respond to his comment directly-
Not everything made of words is a book, and not every book is a novel. For me, Finnegans is not a novel–it’s something else, not better or worse necessarily, just other. Its ridiculous to compare The Fatalist to the Wake. One is the product of a lifetime’s effort, and the other is basically a one-off collage. It’s not fair to either of their projecs.
Hejinian’s excerpt is not an example of my #2 because it is a book-length prose-poem collage, and does not aspire to be considered as fiction. I wonder if the Wake does either. But anyway. As far as why it’s not my #1- it might well be, for I know, or care, which is really the important thing. The work doesn’t interest me sufficiently to warrant my sustained engagement. I understand that it may interest others, and if so, bully for them. But I find it a waste of time–not everybody’s time, but my own. I feel like I’ve done a pretty good job of sketching the contours of my disinterest. I’m capable of further detailing my own sense of what Hejinian’s work lacks, ie why I find it uninteresting, but I feel like you/this thread is coming from the position that the Hejinian is canonical or otherwise excellent, and then defying me to prove why it’s not. I can’t do that, or anyway, I refuse to try.
But I’ll tell you what I will do. I’ll stick a note on my Google calendar for this date ten years from now. If we all live, and the world doesn’t end, and gmail still exists. I’ll remind you of this conversation when I see the note. My money is you won’t remember a thing about Lyn Hejinian or her silly disposable book. Then, when that happens, you’ll see what I was talking about today, and you can buy me a beer or something.
i think it boils down to rhetoric.
lyn has a rhetorical goal in mind, whereas finnegan’s wake is rather an experimentation/push in language itself, not necessarily rhetoric.
correct me if i’m wrong about lyn having a rhetorical goal in that piece, though, because i too dislike that brand of poetry.
i think it boils down to rhetoric.
lyn has a rhetorical goal in mind, whereas finnegan’s wake is rather an experimentation/push in language itself, not necessarily rhetoric.
correct me if i’m wrong about lyn having a rhetorical goal in that piece, though, because i too dislike that brand of poetry.
‘One is the product of a lifetime’s effort, and the other is basically a one-off collage. It’s not fair to either of their projects.’
Do you think that time spent = inherent quality? I don’t think it’s ridiculous to compare them, not at all. What if you didn’t know how long it took for Joyce to make the Wake? What if it took three days? Would you then say that Finnegans shouldn’t be compared to The Fatalist because of length?
‘and does not aspire to be considered as fiction’ Who told you that? I know that it’s labeled as a poem, and yes, it is a poem in form, but I don’t think it’s fair to say that it doesn’t aspire to be considered fiction… it is fictive. It is a book. You really think line breaks are that important?
I have no idea if Hejinian is canonical, nor do I care (read: nor do I WANT to care). I like what I’ve read, but not as much as Finnegans. I’m obsessed with Finnegans. Not obsessed with its merit and place in line, but with the words and their history.
‘silly disposable book’ Mean Week!
Ahh, I’ll buy you a beer anyway. <3
‘One is the product of a lifetime’s effort, and the other is basically a one-off collage. It’s not fair to either of their projects.’
Do you think that time spent = inherent quality? I don’t think it’s ridiculous to compare them, not at all. What if you didn’t know how long it took for Joyce to make the Wake? What if it took three days? Would you then say that Finnegans shouldn’t be compared to The Fatalist because of length?
‘and does not aspire to be considered as fiction’ Who told you that? I know that it’s labeled as a poem, and yes, it is a poem in form, but I don’t think it’s fair to say that it doesn’t aspire to be considered fiction… it is fictive. It is a book. You really think line breaks are that important?
I have no idea if Hejinian is canonical, nor do I care (read: nor do I WANT to care). I like what I’ve read, but not as much as Finnegans. I’m obsessed with Finnegans. Not obsessed with its merit and place in line, but with the words and their history.
‘silly disposable book’ Mean Week!
Ahh, I’ll buy you a beer anyway. <3
i tend to not remember much of anything about anything
i liked the book, as intentionally disjointed as it is
i tend to not remember much of anything about anything
i liked the book, as intentionally disjointed as it is
i also think what is being said in the above passage is rather clear? if said unusually.
i also think what is being said in the above passage is rather clear? if said unusually.
Yeah, I don’t care if Hejinian is canonical either, which was kind of my point before. In fact, this is the only book of hers that I’ve read (so far). From what little I’ve skimmed of her other work, it didn’t interest me as much, but that might change when I really read it. We shall see.
Yeah, I don’t care if Hejinian is canonical either, which was kind of my point before. In fact, this is the only book of hers that I’ve read (so far). From what little I’ve skimmed of her other work, it didn’t interest me as much, but that might change when I really read it. We shall see.
I didn’t raise the issue of the Canon, Bloom, Joyce, or the Wake. I just said I didn’t like the book, and I’ve been more than gracious about acknowledging why people might, while also making the case for why I didn’t. Everything else was ya’lls examples. Don’t give me shit for playing by your rules.
I didn’t raise the issue of the Canon, Bloom, Joyce, or the Wake. I just said I didn’t like the book, and I’ve been more than gracious about acknowledging why people might, while also making the case for why I didn’t. Everything else was ya’lls examples. Don’t give me shit for playing by your rules.
And Matt, in response to your earlier thing about “if you didn’t know who/what it was,” I deliberately left those considerations out of my initial critique. I read this book because it was assigned to me in a lit seminar, and the teacher told us nothing about it before we read it. At the time I didn’t know LH’s work or what the mechanism for this book’s production was. I levied the same critique (hermetic, flighty, reads like 7th graders scribbling in coded yearbook entries) then that I did today. At the end of that class period, two hours into the discussion, the teacher explained the book’s method of composition. The main emotion I felt was validation.
And Matt, in response to your earlier thing about “if you didn’t know who/what it was,” I deliberately left those considerations out of my initial critique. I read this book because it was assigned to me in a lit seminar, and the teacher told us nothing about it before we read it. At the time I didn’t know LH’s work or what the mechanism for this book’s production was. I levied the same critique (hermetic, flighty, reads like 7th graders scribbling in coded yearbook entries) then that I did today. At the end of that class period, two hours into the discussion, the teacher explained the book’s method of composition. The main emotion I felt was validation.
but do you really not understand this passage justin? is it really the same as reading HAGS BEBE I XOX U?
but do you really not understand this passage justin? is it really the same as reading HAGS BEBE I XOX U?
not liking it and not understanding it seem very different. and i don’t know, out of the whole of the book, this is one of the more clearly stated bits… it seems clear what she is saying, and for me made sense of a lot of the rest around it. because i often get turned off by this kind of thing. but something here worked for me…
not liking it and not understanding it seem very different. and i don’t know, out of the whole of the book, this is one of the more clearly stated bits… it seems clear what she is saying, and for me made sense of a lot of the rest around it. because i often get turned off by this kind of thing. but something here worked for me…
Fair enough.
Fair enough.
This is obtuse and weak. You have NOTHING to say, so you drop this splitter-gnaw.
(no hands clapping)
This is obtuse and weak. You have NOTHING to say, so you drop this splitter-gnaw.
(no hands clapping)
Shut the fuck up, Blake. Last night (true, in all the BS of this Man Week whatever) Blake asked me out, I mean to a rally, for birds. FUCK BIRDS!
Shut the fuck up, Blake. Last night (true, in all the BS of this Man Week whatever) Blake asked me out, I mean to a rally, for birds. FUCK BIRDS!
***a day late as i got sidetracked yesterday at work before i could click “submit”.
@Justin
Justin says, “I hate to get the meanness started by directing it at you, Blake, but…”
and then Justin follows up his qualification of meanness with a contrary opinion? hey wait a second, contrary opinion isn’t mean at all! so according to Justin’s logic, any time a contrary idea is conveyed it will be considered “mean”.
justin follows up his post explaining why he was confused about being mean. it appears justin simply feels that the “fatalist” is a hunk of shit written for young adults.
justin declares FW is an object of art and a terminal-pushing novel. What the fuck is an object of art and/or how a book could be such an object?
next mister taylor puts on a brilliant display of ignorance as he is stupefied by the inability of wordpress to allow more than 4 or 5 nested comments. I find it extremely amusing to witness one of the core htmlgiant contributors lament his unfamiliarity with a feature as intrinsic as “reply”. This taken in to consideration with his 12+ month tenure at htmlgiant makes his actions appear inconceivable.
The motivation behind Justin’s unwillingness to communicate with the htmlg community is the same used in his dismissal of “the fatalist”.
At its root level, Justin believes “the fatalist” is not worthy of his precious time. The same applies to responding/commenting with the community on htmlgiant.
justin was taught the NYU: Time Management Best Practices.
The NYU:TMBP is easy to learn, but takes a lifetime to master. The TMBP is a merit-based system where items are classified as “artful” or “worthy” if the following criteria met:
1. the item reviewed by the academic community (academic community is comprised mostly of university professors (white males) with 3 letter designations after their last name).
2. the item’s attributes analyzed for their artfulness (the more it alienates, the higher its artfulness rating)
3. any item with a liberal focal point is inherently worthy
All other things, including people and their relationships, are approached with an overwhelming sense of dissatisfaction and promptly dismissed.
If you notice, Justin is an expert practitioner of the NYU:TMBP. No one dismisses a book or person faster than Justin Taylor!
Justin is an elitist who will only converse with those he deems worthy.
fyi, most of us aren’t worthy enough for justin.
just like the “fatalist” book is not worthy.
***a day late as i got sidetracked yesterday at work before i could click “submit”.
@Justin
Justin says, “I hate to get the meanness started by directing it at you, Blake, but…”
and then Justin follows up his qualification of meanness with a contrary opinion? hey wait a second, contrary opinion isn’t mean at all! so according to Justin’s logic, any time a contrary idea is conveyed it will be considered “mean”.
justin follows up his post explaining why he was confused about being mean. it appears justin simply feels that the “fatalist” is a hunk of shit written for young adults.
justin declares FW is an object of art and a terminal-pushing novel. What the fuck is an object of art and/or how a book could be such an object?
next mister taylor puts on a brilliant display of ignorance as he is stupefied by the inability of wordpress to allow more than 4 or 5 nested comments. I find it extremely amusing to witness one of the core htmlgiant contributors lament his unfamiliarity with a feature as intrinsic as “reply”. This taken in to consideration with his 12+ month tenure at htmlgiant makes his actions appear inconceivable.
The motivation behind Justin’s unwillingness to communicate with the htmlg community is the same used in his dismissal of “the fatalist”.
At its root level, Justin believes “the fatalist” is not worthy of his precious time. The same applies to responding/commenting with the community on htmlgiant.
justin was taught the NYU: Time Management Best Practices.
The NYU:TMBP is easy to learn, but takes a lifetime to master. The TMBP is a merit-based system where items are classified as “artful” or “worthy” if the following criteria met:
1. the item reviewed by the academic community (academic community is comprised mostly of university professors (white males) with 3 letter designations after their last name).
2. the item’s attributes analyzed for their artfulness (the more it alienates, the higher its artfulness rating)
3. any item with a liberal focal point is inherently worthy
All other things, including people and their relationships, are approached with an overwhelming sense of dissatisfaction and promptly dismissed.
If you notice, Justin is an expert practitioner of the NYU:TMBP. No one dismisses a book or person faster than Justin Taylor!
Justin is an elitist who will only converse with those he deems worthy.
fyi, most of us aren’t worthy enough for justin.
just like the “fatalist” book is not worthy.
You missed the important part, you ignorant loudmouth fuck- it’s the part where I actually read the book. And to think I hugged you last year at AWP!
You missed the important part, you ignorant loudmouth fuck- it’s the part where I actually read the book. And to think I hugged you last year at AWP!