June 9th, 2009 / 11:20 pm
Uncategorized
Blake Butler
Uncategorized
Semiserious to Probably Unserious Q
What are 3 literary journals that you feel would “change your life” if you were published in them? Do you believe your life could be changed by publishing a writing? Does it matter?
Tags: change your life, Publishing
I’m not sure “change my life” would be a good way to put it. I’d be very happy to be published in some select magazines, though I think every publication is something to be happy about.
As for the question of it mattering, I think it exposes my writing to a larger audience. I know some will say that blogs can do the same thing, but more people look at X Magazine than my blog. Being published helps me feel like part of a literary community. Living in Fargo, this is especially important for me. Writing poetry, this is also important for me, because, at least where I am, it feels like it is dying.
I’ve already been published in one of my “dream” publications, No Tell Motel (thanks Reb!), but two other dream ones would have to be Coconut and Octopus.
I’m not sure “change my life” would be a good way to put it. I’d be very happy to be published in some select magazines, though I think every publication is something to be happy about.
As for the question of it mattering, I think it exposes my writing to a larger audience. I know some will say that blogs can do the same thing, but more people look at X Magazine than my blog. Being published helps me feel like part of a literary community. Living in Fargo, this is especially important for me. Writing poetry, this is also important for me, because, at least where I am, it feels like it is dying.
I’ve already been published in one of my “dream” publications, No Tell Motel (thanks Reb!), but two other dream ones would have to be Coconut and Octopus.
i think publishing in certain markets can definitely change your life, because they open doors to you in ways that other markets just can’t. i have a list in my head of markets i want to be published in. depending on the day and mood i think i have a shot at them.
i’m rambling. but i think about this issue too often.
i think publishing in certain markets can definitely change your life, because they open doors to you in ways that other markets just can’t. i have a list in my head of markets i want to be published in. depending on the day and mood i think i have a shot at them.
i’m rambling. but i think about this issue too often.
what is the list
what is the list
the new yorker
paris review
zyzzyva
mcsweeneys
as well as,
hobart
annalemma
fence
keyhole
caketrain
noon
really there are tons.
I have to assume being published in the New Yorker, Harper’s and The Atlantic would change my life in that it would greatly increase my chances of a book deal if I can assume the work gets to be of high quality. However, that isn’t a very interesting answer. The question of what three journals that would just blow my mind because of a combination of what I think of them, who else they publish and such… I dunno. Need to think about it a bit.
the new yorker
paris review
zyzzyva
mcsweeneys
as well as,
hobart
annalemma
fence
keyhole
caketrain
noon
really there are tons.
I have to assume being published in the New Yorker, Harper’s and The Atlantic would change my life in that it would greatly increase my chances of a book deal if I can assume the work gets to be of high quality. However, that isn’t a very interesting answer. The question of what three journals that would just blow my mind because of a combination of what I think of them, who else they publish and such… I dunno. Need to think about it a bit.
i don’t think any would change my life significantly. a slightly elevated sense of self worth might linger a little while. i don’t even try to get into any particular journal these days. Most i’ve tried to in the past four years I did already and here I am mostly unchanged (but not really, it’s weird to think “my life is changed” because our lives change constantly and what is the cause of any of it?). the first thing I thought when I read that was nytryant, and then, oh right. maybe ninth letter. mcsweeneys. i never even submit to them anymore though. i’ve stopped having that thing where all you want is to get into the most distributed place in order to get famous and now I’m mostly thinking about who has a sensibility I respect, and that’s a view that’s getting narrower and narrower. I’d like to publish a book by dalkey archive or fc2 or something like that before i die I think. I think I would feel good dieing if that happened I think/hope. it’s a busy question, it’s what drove wallace kind of mad there for a little while, right? does it change your life? for the better? whatever. I’ve got a few plan Bs anyway.
i don’t think any would change my life significantly. a slightly elevated sense of self worth might linger a little while. i don’t even try to get into any particular journal these days. Most i’ve tried to in the past four years I did already and here I am mostly unchanged (but not really, it’s weird to think “my life is changed” because our lives change constantly and what is the cause of any of it?). the first thing I thought when I read that was nytryant, and then, oh right. maybe ninth letter. mcsweeneys. i never even submit to them anymore though. i’ve stopped having that thing where all you want is to get into the most distributed place in order to get famous and now I’m mostly thinking about who has a sensibility I respect, and that’s a view that’s getting narrower and narrower. I’d like to publish a book by dalkey archive or fc2 or something like that before i die I think. I think I would feel good dieing if that happened I think/hope. it’s a busy question, it’s what drove wallace kind of mad there for a little while, right? does it change your life? for the better? whatever. I’ve got a few plan Bs anyway.
Surely someone has to say, HTML Giant. No, maybe I should pimp some of my friend’s journals? Being published in the local newspaper would change my life. Scientific American? International Socialist? Literary journals are boring as batshit and noone except the people who are in them or want to be in them read them. There are so many of them these days too, anyone egotistical enough to want to an ‘editor’ can grab a URL. The words ‘literature’ and ‘literary journal’ have never meant so little. Why bother? I want be published in a newspaper or on the side of a cereal box or have a poem painted on the tailfin of all Qantas A380 airbuses.
Surely someone has to say, HTML Giant. No, maybe I should pimp some of my friend’s journals? Being published in the local newspaper would change my life. Scientific American? International Socialist? Literary journals are boring as batshit and noone except the people who are in them or want to be in them read them. There are so many of them these days too, anyone egotistical enough to want to an ‘editor’ can grab a URL. The words ‘literature’ and ‘literary journal’ have never meant so little. Why bother? I want be published in a newspaper or on the side of a cereal box or have a poem painted on the tailfin of all Qantas A380 airbuses.
Work first.
Outlet second, and for numbers and/or shoulder-rubbing, per discretion.
Pretty simple formula.
Not to be taken too seriously.
Yes?
Work first.
Outlet second, and for numbers and/or shoulder-rubbing, per discretion.
Pretty simple formula.
Not to be taken too seriously.
Yes?
I’m not that elevated. I would love to see my work in Opium, Caketrain and McSweeney’s. It would change my life.
I’m not that elevated. I would love to see my work in Opium, Caketrain and McSweeney’s. It would change my life.
Dude, batshit is not boring.
Dude, batshit is not boring.
Conjunctions, Capilano Review, Tinfish, EAOGH, ……
Conjunctions, Capilano Review, Tinfish, EAOGH, ……
5_trope is cool, as is Action Yes!, and getting academic work somewhere like textual practice or critical text would be killer.
5_trope is cool, as is Action Yes!, and getting academic work somewhere like textual practice or critical text would be killer.
what happens to you when you are in a journal
these are sincere questions, i am not trying to elucidate a feeling one way or the other
what happens to you when you are in a journal
these are sincere questions, i am not trying to elucidate a feeling one way or the other
i like this thought. i’d like to hear more of this
i like this thought. i’d like to hear more of this
more about this
more about this
something happens like, people like me, these particular people who are maybe kind of important think I’m important in a similar way, and it stays around for a few days or weeks and then you go to work and experience weeks and weekends and get used to your new importance or you question it and realize it’s not really that important, like there are maybe some more important places to send things now, and then months happen and the thing shows up in the mail and you read your story in print and think, wow I’m with these other important people, my voice matters as much as these other people’s, and you set the thing in a special place like on your desk somewhere where the cover is visible whenever you go into the room until one day you put some mail on the book and it gets buried under other things and you experience weeks and weekends and months later you find the book again and flip it to your story and read the first paragraph and feel good about yourself and put it on the shelf and look at the spine for a few seconds and go to work.
something happens like, people like me, these particular people who are maybe kind of important think I’m important in a similar way, and it stays around for a few days or weeks and then you go to work and experience weeks and weekends and get used to your new importance or you question it and realize it’s not really that important, like there are maybe some more important places to send things now, and then months happen and the thing shows up in the mail and you read your story in print and think, wow I’m with these other important people, my voice matters as much as these other people’s, and you set the thing in a special place like on your desk somewhere where the cover is visible whenever you go into the room until one day you put some mail on the book and it gets buried under other things and you experience weeks and weekends and months later you find the book again and flip it to your story and read the first paragraph and feel good about yourself and put it on the shelf and look at the spine for a few seconds and go to work.
does this equate to navel gazing?
again, neutral toned question
and not that i have anything wrong with navel gazing
does this equate to navel gazing?
again, neutral toned question
and not that i have anything wrong with navel gazing
as clearly i am bout it bout it
but seriously: is that the primary function
as clearly i am bout it bout it
but seriously: is that the primary function
pretty much. I mean I never have the sense like, I’m changing the world with my words or something, like I’m helping others in some way, or inspiring others. Writing is an inherently selfish act for me. I do my selfless acts in other realms.
pretty much. I mean I never have the sense like, I’m changing the world with my words or something, like I’m helping others in some way, or inspiring others. Writing is an inherently selfish act for me. I do my selfless acts in other realms.
It’s an Australianism. We have a lot of bats. Almost as many bats as there are literary journals. Nothing happens when you appear in them, Blake. I have been in dozens over the years. It used to be that you collected enough publishing credits in journals to make a CV that would you get a book published but that was when there was a handful of journals and the editors all knew each other and there was an established career path. Now it’s a meaningless hodge podge of dead ends. There are more writers than there are readers these days. And what with Tao Lin telling people that being able to spell means you’re a writer, things are only going to get worse.
It’s an Australianism. We have a lot of bats. Almost as many bats as there are literary journals. Nothing happens when you appear in them, Blake. I have been in dozens over the years. It used to be that you collected enough publishing credits in journals to make a CV that would you get a book published but that was when there was a handful of journals and the editors all knew each other and there was an established career path. Now it’s a meaningless hodge podge of dead ends. There are more writers than there are readers these days. And what with Tao Lin telling people that being able to spell means you’re a writer, things are only going to get worse.
I mean, I know the cool thing is to say all this stuff is stupid and pointless, but just on a factual level, there are clearly still people who publish in journals, build up credits, and publish a collection, sometimes even at a major house.
I mean, I know the cool thing is to say all this stuff is stupid and pointless, but just on a factual level, there are clearly still people who publish in journals, build up credits, and publish a collection, sometimes even at a major house.
hm, paul, i think your attitude is backwards. which is why…
hm, paul, i think your attitude is backwards. which is why…
lincoln, is it the cool thing to say it is stupid?
i am not certainly not trying to say it is stupid.
lincoln, is it the cool thing to say it is stupid?
i am not certainly not trying to say it is stupid.
i gues it could be different if you’re thinking of it in terms of furthering a career, like you are trying to be a writer as a profession and get paid and support a family or something, I wouldn’t call that pursuit navel-gazing. Though in that case, your own sense of aesthetic would probably have to be sacrificed for large distribution, and getting published in the new yorker or harpers or something could then change your life. I’m not on that kind of path though.
i gues it could be different if you’re thinking of it in terms of furthering a career, like you are trying to be a writer as a profession and get paid and support a family or something, I wouldn’t call that pursuit navel-gazing. Though in that case, your own sense of aesthetic would probably have to be sacrificed for large distribution, and getting published in the new yorker or harpers or something could then change your life. I’m not on that kind of path though.
careerism is the last interest for me in this discussion
but i wonder what the worth of winning that embellishment to your apartment really is? why it makes you feel good? is it the same as sport fucking? as playing a video game?
why books?
careerism is the last interest for me in this discussion
but i wonder what the worth of winning that embellishment to your apartment really is? why it makes you feel good? is it the same as sport fucking? as playing a video game?
why books?
Outside of furthering a career or whatever modest (likely non-existent) monetary reward you might get, I guess it is a source of external validation. So maybe not as much like sport fucking or paying a video game as someone you respect paying you a compliment (perhaps a sexy lady/dude telling you how good you are in bed or some video game champion telling you how rad your moves are…. ?)
i don’t know. a book is a thing where there’s a sense that it will exist after you die, and so it’s kind of a mark you’re leaving with a bunch of words you want to say and this publisher let you do it. Even if no one reads it, there’s a comfort there maybe, maybe after your dead, someone will see your book in a used bookstore and buy it and read it and know your name. They’ll learn about you after your dead. it’s different than playing sports or video games because you are saying something to someone else.
Outside of furthering a career or whatever modest (likely non-existent) monetary reward you might get, I guess it is a source of external validation. So maybe not as much like sport fucking or paying a video game as someone you respect paying you a compliment (perhaps a sexy lady/dude telling you how good you are in bed or some video game champion telling you how rad your moves are…. ?)
i don’t know. a book is a thing where there’s a sense that it will exist after you die, and so it’s kind of a mark you’re leaving with a bunch of words you want to say and this publisher let you do it. Even if no one reads it, there’s a comfort there maybe, maybe after your dead, someone will see your book in a used bookstore and buy it and read it and know your name. They’ll learn about you after your dead. it’s different than playing sports or video games because you are saying something to someone else.
and of course art is I think in some sense about communication so it is quite nice to communicate with someone (in this case, readers)
and of course art is I think in some sense about communication so it is quite nice to communicate with someone (in this case, readers)
that feels a better way of saying it, yes. ok good. thank you.
that feels a better way of saying it, yes. ok good. thank you.
bit of a jinx there. agreed.
fighting against death, isn’t that what its all about? I just heard someone expound on that as the virtue of tattoos a few hours ago….
bit of a jinx there. agreed.
fighting against death, isn’t that what its all about? I just heard someone expound on that as the virtue of tattoos a few hours ago….
ok so what magazines best help y’alls fight against death n whatnot
ok so what magazines best help y’alls fight against death n whatnot
Yeah, at its base I suppose it is a sort of ego stroke, but maybe the most beautiful of them all: a desire for long-term contribution to communication and therefore human knowledge and experience, with the Ego portion of the deal chalking up to being, as a being, not at all ‘lost’ after the brain shuts off, or, maybe, heck, in other words: an afterlife for the artist, or, Heaven in the Legacy.
Yeah, at its base I suppose it is a sort of ego stroke, but maybe the most beautiful of them all: a desire for long-term contribution to communication and therefore human knowledge and experience, with the Ego portion of the deal chalking up to being, as a being, not at all ‘lost’ after the brain shuts off, or, maybe, heck, in other words: an afterlife for the artist, or, Heaven in the Legacy.
universe expansion is going to rip apart gravity. it is going to rip every sub atomic particle from every other one so that there will be no substance, no matter. there will be no books. there will be no lasting record of you.
the entire universe will end and a new one will begin with a little bang somewhere else on the space time grid. everything will start over again and some new alien creature will probably write the book you wrote. the book that you wrote was probably already written in another universe that existed and ended. i’m sorry.
universe expansion is going to rip apart gravity. it is going to rip every sub atomic particle from every other one so that there will be no substance, no matter. there will be no books. there will be no lasting record of you.
the entire universe will end and a new one will begin with a little bang somewhere else on the space time grid. everything will start over again and some new alien creature will probably write the book you wrote. the book that you wrote was probably already written in another universe that existed and ended. i’m sorry.
I like knowing my work is being read even if it is being read by like 13 people. I like showing my parents that giving me that first typewriter is working out. They really dig seeing my stuff and it makes me happy to make them happy. I love seeing my name in print. And yes, the validation is also nice. When my work is accepted in journals that have published writers I admire, I feel like hey, I get to be a cool kid too. In the grand scheme of things, I understand that it is all pretty pointless, but I don’t think we always need to worry about that grand scheme. I think it is fine to be ambitious and to be proud of the work we produce and to want to see our work in the “big name” journals. I’m a Libra. I am able to maintain my indie and mainstream sensibilities at the same time. I think these are good questions and food for thought.
I like knowing my work is being read even if it is being read by like 13 people. I like showing my parents that giving me that first typewriter is working out. They really dig seeing my stuff and it makes me happy to make them happy. I love seeing my name in print. And yes, the validation is also nice. When my work is accepted in journals that have published writers I admire, I feel like hey, I get to be a cool kid too. In the grand scheme of things, I understand that it is all pretty pointless, but I don’t think we always need to worry about that grand scheme. I think it is fine to be ambitious and to be proud of the work we produce and to want to see our work in the “big name” journals. I’m a Libra. I am able to maintain my indie and mainstream sensibilities at the same time. I think these are good questions and food for thought.
Yes, to continue the half-asleep 2 am philosophizing, I think there is something to be said for human greatness and the striving for and attempts at it, whether through great literature, chess grand masters, professional sports. Obviously a lot of ego involved, but that is true of almost everything. And of course a pointless activity as matthew notes we will as soon be smashed into nothing like some Federation planet with a drop of red matter thrown into its core (I dunno, space, star trek, ?)… still what else is there to strive for but beauty and truth… and I am still corny enough to believe that art, or rather great art, teaches and enriches us in a way that is vital and important and not otherwise possible.
Not that I am making great art myself, but as always a distant goal…
Yes, to continue the half-asleep 2 am philosophizing, I think there is something to be said for human greatness and the striving for and attempts at it, whether through great literature, chess grand masters, professional sports. Obviously a lot of ego involved, but that is true of almost everything. And of course a pointless activity as matthew notes we will as soon be smashed into nothing like some Federation planet with a drop of red matter thrown into its core (I dunno, space, star trek, ?)… still what else is there to strive for but beauty and truth… and I am still corny enough to believe that art, or rather great art, teaches and enriches us in a way that is vital and important and not otherwise possible.
Not that I am making great art myself, but as always a distant goal…
Well as long as the universe still has copyright laws lets sue those green-skinned bastards!
interesting condition. i’d probably stick with my previous answer. I think mcsweeneys might be more important in this light since every issue is such a unique object, there’s more of a chance for there being a demand as artifact in the future, so you might be more likely to be read after you’re dead there than somewhere else.
Well as long as the universe still has copyright laws lets sue those green-skinned bastards!
interesting condition. i’d probably stick with my previous answer. I think mcsweeneys might be more important in this light since every issue is such a unique object, there’s more of a chance for there being a demand as artifact in the future, so you might be more likely to be read after you’re dead there than somewhere else.
go get em boss
But, but, but, what about Descartes and stuff?
go get em boss
But, but, but, what about Descartes and stuff?
Descartes was sitting at a bar drinking shots of whiskey. He’d been there all night. The bartender finally decided it was time to shut it down with a last call.
“You want another one, Descartes?” the bartender said.
“I think not,” he said and disappeared.
This has been one of my favorite HTMLGIANT conversations so far. Good job, everyone.
Descartes was sitting at a bar drinking shots of whiskey. He’d been there all night. The bartender finally decided it was time to shut it down with a last call.
“You want another one, Descartes?” the bartender said.
“I think not,” he said and disappeared.
This has been one of my favorite HTMLGIANT conversations so far. Good job, everyone.
also it’s nice to not think of oneself as a lazy waste of space for a little while.
also it’s nice to not think of oneself as a lazy waste of space for a little while.
I’m a dork for laughing at that, and am proud of it.
I’m a dork for laughing at that, and am proud of it.
I’d say that the criterion for life-changing publication can’t be posterity, since that seems to me to change the nature of one’s death (lessening its import?) than one’s life itself…
For that reason, I’d think that the mags that would best change one’s life would be the ones that would most change one’s material/social/mental position during the term of one’s actual life. I might then look in a couple of directions. Money? Maybe if I needed money to change my life (certainly it couldn’t hurt) I’d hope for publication somewhere with big-circulation: from the one person I’ve talked to who’s been published there, sounds like getting some creative nonfiction/memoir into the New York Times Magazine might not be such a bad place for this. Social status? There, you’d have to go with McSweeney’s, since McSweeney’s types (me included) seem pretty invested in Literature-as-Important-Thing and would thus respect those writers who have appeared among the pages of their favorite rag. (Publication in a place like the New Yorker wouldn’t work quite as well [even though it’d also be nice, yeah?] since New Yorker fiction is a bit marginal vis-a-vis the amazingly awesome journalism in the magazine, and I’d never have the journalistic chops to place a feature article there…) But these two life-changers, though I suspect they’d really be life-changers to at least some marginal extent, are pretty obvious and boring….
The last way I could envision a magazine publication changing my life would be if I could place a story with a journal I respected so much that I’d forever (or at least for a while) think of myself so differently that it’d elevate my mood continuously… Here’s what I’d go for: maybe Tin House or A Public Space or Barrelhouse, and I’ve also been 100% impressed with the couple of issues a piece I’ve read of the Cincinnati Review and Five Points. If I ended up in one of those, even if I never published again, at least I’d be able to think that I’d done something I really respected…
I’d say that the criterion for life-changing publication can’t be posterity, since that seems to me to change the nature of one’s death (lessening its import?) than one’s life itself…
For that reason, I’d think that the mags that would best change one’s life would be the ones that would most change one’s material/social/mental position during the term of one’s actual life. I might then look in a couple of directions. Money? Maybe if I needed money to change my life (certainly it couldn’t hurt) I’d hope for publication somewhere with big-circulation: from the one person I’ve talked to who’s been published there, sounds like getting some creative nonfiction/memoir into the New York Times Magazine might not be such a bad place for this. Social status? There, you’d have to go with McSweeney’s, since McSweeney’s types (me included) seem pretty invested in Literature-as-Important-Thing and would thus respect those writers who have appeared among the pages of their favorite rag. (Publication in a place like the New Yorker wouldn’t work quite as well [even though it’d also be nice, yeah?] since New Yorker fiction is a bit marginal vis-a-vis the amazingly awesome journalism in the magazine, and I’d never have the journalistic chops to place a feature article there…) But these two life-changers, though I suspect they’d really be life-changers to at least some marginal extent, are pretty obvious and boring….
The last way I could envision a magazine publication changing my life would be if I could place a story with a journal I respected so much that I’d forever (or at least for a while) think of myself so differently that it’d elevate my mood continuously… Here’s what I’d go for: maybe Tin House or A Public Space or Barrelhouse, and I’ve also been 100% impressed with the couple of issues a piece I’ve read of the Cincinnati Review and Five Points. If I ended up in one of those, even if I never published again, at least I’d be able to think that I’d done something I really respected…
i was thinking this exactly. everyone here sees the blanket truth and it has made me happy.
zyzzyva would conquer death for me. except if i ever appear in zyzzyva it will be my former atoms as something else and zyzzyva will be called >]>>]~O and this will take place in universe version 2.3.
i was thinking this exactly. everyone here sees the blanket truth and it has made me happy.
zyzzyva would conquer death for me. except if i ever appear in zyzzyva it will be my former atoms as something else and zyzzyva will be called >]>>]~O and this will take place in universe version 2.3.
Like some of the other commenters, I have to say that my appearance in any of the literary journals I happen to rate would not change my life. If it did, I would probably have to worry about the tragic state of my life.
Undoubtedly, however, being in certain journals – and I am not going to name them, since if I did I would look utterly tragic and seem as if I am pathetically screaming “NOTICE ME! NOTICE ME! PLEASE!” – would improve my woefully poor self-esteem, and boost my none too coincidentally woefully poor self-confidence about my writing. I think it would make me – at least for a time – wake up earlier and write, get home more promptly from work and waste less time before I began writing. Et cetera. That kind of thing.
But I wonder how long that effect would last before I’d need my next self-congratulatory ‘fix’ of being in some noted journal’s pages (either virtual or otherwise).
But not change my life, no. If it did, then I might as well stick my head in the oven now.
Like some of the other commenters, I have to say that my appearance in any of the literary journals I happen to rate would not change my life. If it did, I would probably have to worry about the tragic state of my life.
Undoubtedly, however, being in certain journals – and I am not going to name them, since if I did I would look utterly tragic and seem as if I am pathetically screaming “NOTICE ME! NOTICE ME! PLEASE!” – would improve my woefully poor self-esteem, and boost my none too coincidentally woefully poor self-confidence about my writing. I think it would make me – at least for a time – wake up earlier and write, get home more promptly from work and waste less time before I began writing. Et cetera. That kind of thing.
But I wonder how long that effect would last before I’d need my next self-congratulatory ‘fix’ of being in some noted journal’s pages (either virtual or otherwise).
But not change my life, no. If it did, then I might as well stick my head in the oven now.
& yet & yet
the novelty of even >]>>]~O would wear off.
& yet & yet
the novelty of even >]>>]~O would wear off.
mcsweeney’s, conjunctions, noon, 9th letter, sleeping fish.
although i would tend to agree with most people here that being published in these venues wouldn’t change my life. it would be very nice, but that’s about it.
vaughan– the high of publication (as you’d surmised) isn’t nearly as long as it ought to be, but maybe that’s because i haven’t been published in above journals. maybe then it would last longer. or maybe we should come up with a magic potion to make the high of publication last longer.
how long do your publication highs last? (please differentiate between book, anthology, and journal.)
mcsweeney’s, conjunctions, noon, 9th letter, sleeping fish.
although i would tend to agree with most people here that being published in these venues wouldn’t change my life. it would be very nice, but that’s about it.
vaughan– the high of publication (as you’d surmised) isn’t nearly as long as it ought to be, but maybe that’s because i haven’t been published in above journals. maybe then it would last longer. or maybe we should come up with a magic potion to make the high of publication last longer.
how long do your publication highs last? (please differentiate between book, anthology, and journal.)
“things are only going to get worse”
What things? Who is being harmed?
i could use a shoulder rub in the worst possible way
(by worst i mean right now and all the time because they are sore)
“things are only going to get worse”
What things? Who is being harmed?
i could use a shoulder rub in the worst possible way
(by worst i mean right now and all the time because they are sore)
my current list is
no colony
no posit
lam colony
sir!
coconut
handsome
maybe forklift or octopus too.
actually it’s safe to say it’d be nice to be published in octopus.
i don’t know about changing my life. it would probably feel good. it would be like a sense of accomplishment and an ability to move forward from there. a part of the whole getting a book out thing is as much about being able to move on, to know that this text is done and you don’t need to think about it anymore. it’s also something close to what ken was saying, but i just woke up and i can’t think about that right now.
this post has been great to wake up and read.
Not all literary.
1. The Paris Review
2. Playboy
3. Rolling Stone
my current list is
no colony
no posit
lam colony
sir!
coconut
handsome
maybe forklift or octopus too.
actually it’s safe to say it’d be nice to be published in octopus.
i don’t know about changing my life. it would probably feel good. it would be like a sense of accomplishment and an ability to move forward from there. a part of the whole getting a book out thing is as much about being able to move on, to know that this text is done and you don’t need to think about it anymore. it’s also something close to what ken was saying, but i just woke up and i can’t think about that right now.
this post has been great to wake up and read.
Not all literary.
1. The Paris Review
2. Playboy
3. Rolling Stone
well listen, as an extension of that, of the idea of a legacy, whatever, but also, as an extension of the ego stroke, listen: i am trying to break your heart.
what i am saying is that the goal is possibly to create something that is so fucking good you want to weep. to make a thing that can affect someone. that can remind them of the sadness and awe that is inherent in everything around them because for some reason sometimes we all of us forget that.
well listen, as an extension of that, of the idea of a legacy, whatever, but also, as an extension of the ego stroke, listen: i am trying to break your heart.
what i am saying is that the goal is possibly to create something that is so fucking good you want to weep. to make a thing that can affect someone. that can remind them of the sadness and awe that is inherent in everything around them because for some reason sometimes we all of us forget that.
also i couldn’t reply to it, but lincoln, nice thing with the red matter. nice.
also i couldn’t reply to it, but lincoln, nice thing with the red matter. nice.
ha, this thread cracks me up. i’m just an old fart i guess. nothing i get published will change my life. i used to think that getting in places like tin house or the new yorker would change everything. i’m a dad, bureaucrat, husband, son, fucked homeowner with big time debt, etc. In 23 years I can retire from my job. I’ll be 59. If the New Yorker solicited something from me tomorrow…yeah a couple grand would be great to put down on my home equity loan but who the fuck am I kidding. It’s not going to change anything. Other than friends I browbeat into reading my stuff online when it gets published, I don’t think any non-writers give a fuck. I don’t think I’m changing the world or making any big impact with my writing. Darby said it best..it’s a selfish act for me to write. It takes away sleep. It makes me tired at work. It makes me crankier with my wife and kids. It makes me obsessively check email so some editor can tell me yay or nay (and not pay me anything). In many ways, I am a far happier person when I’m not writing but to paraphrase my friend Alan Rossi said …I feel vaguely sick when I don’t write. I’m a fucking mess I guess. Bottom line though is that no publication (a novel deal, SS collection deal, etc.) is going to have any big impact on my life. I will never make enough writing the kind of stuff I write to quit my real job. Any real “success” would just mean more time dealing with agents,publishers, etc…time I don’t have right now with two young kids and full time job, etc.
ha, this thread cracks me up. i’m just an old fart i guess. nothing i get published will change my life. i used to think that getting in places like tin house or the new yorker would change everything. i’m a dad, bureaucrat, husband, son, fucked homeowner with big time debt, etc. In 23 years I can retire from my job. I’ll be 59. If the New Yorker solicited something from me tomorrow…yeah a couple grand would be great to put down on my home equity loan but who the fuck am I kidding. It’s not going to change anything. Other than friends I browbeat into reading my stuff online when it gets published, I don’t think any non-writers give a fuck. I don’t think I’m changing the world or making any big impact with my writing. Darby said it best..it’s a selfish act for me to write. It takes away sleep. It makes me tired at work. It makes me crankier with my wife and kids. It makes me obsessively check email so some editor can tell me yay or nay (and not pay me anything). In many ways, I am a far happier person when I’m not writing but to paraphrase my friend Alan Rossi said …I feel vaguely sick when I don’t write. I’m a fucking mess I guess. Bottom line though is that no publication (a novel deal, SS collection deal, etc.) is going to have any big impact on my life. I will never make enough writing the kind of stuff I write to quit my real job. Any real “success” would just mean more time dealing with agents,publishers, etc…time I don’t have right now with two young kids and full time job, etc.
Three Anti-Death Journals:
1. The Paris Review
2. McSweeney’s Quarterly
3. The New Yorker
If hear whispered that if you’re published in all three of these journals in a single year, you’ll dematerialize and reform as a minor constellation over the South Pacific.
Three Anti-Death Journals:
1. The Paris Review
2. McSweeney’s Quarterly
3. The New Yorker
If hear whispered that if you’re published in all three of these journals in a single year, you’ll dematerialize and reform as a minor constellation over the South Pacific.
yes also what david said. when you don’t do it you feel sick. or in my case i get cranky all the time and i don’t sleep.
yes also what david said. when you don’t do it you feel sick. or in my case i get cranky all the time and i don’t sleep.
People need to remember to supplement publication with children.
No one will read your McSweeney’s story in two-hundred years unless you have some distant relative who is researching her genealogy online in her “down time” between trips to the moon and communicating with her cats through telepathy.
People need to remember to supplement publication with children.
No one will read your McSweeney’s story in two-hundred years unless you have some distant relative who is researching her genealogy online in her “down time” between trips to the moon and communicating with her cats through telepathy.
gene i will never forget
gene i will never forget
getting into mcsweeney’s would keep me feeling satisfied for a good long while.
getting into mcsweeney’s would keep me feeling satisfied for a good long while.
Zoetrope, Interzone, The New Yorker.
All three for the amount of notice they provide
Zoetrope, Interzone, The New Yorker.
All three for the amount of notice they provide
i don’t think anyone has come very close to the reason i personally write, which is not something i can exactly name.
which leads me to believe that most people have no idea why they write.
which…
i don’t think anyone has come very close to the reason i personally write, which is not something i can exactly name.
which leads me to believe that most people have no idea why they write.
which…
matthew, why do you write
matthew, why do you write
i think david erlewine sorta answered it by saying it makes him sick not to, which is the only reason i do too. i write at work because i’m driven from extreme boredom to do it.
on a ‘deeper’ level i guess, i write to ‘own’ the world which i render, like have it be part of me forever — and possibly for others to experience that world, which is the reason i read.
so maybe reading and writing is (after the ego and shit) the same thing: sharing experiences with humans.
i think david erlewine sorta answered it by saying it makes him sick not to, which is the only reason i do too. i write at work because i’m driven from extreme boredom to do it.
on a ‘deeper’ level i guess, i write to ‘own’ the world which i render, like have it be part of me forever — and possibly for others to experience that world, which is the reason i read.
so maybe reading and writing is (after the ego and shit) the same thing: sharing experiences with humans.
If I’m cutting all the shit the real reason I write at all is that I’m a shitty speaker with a brutally accurate memory of all the horrible things that happened to me/I let happen to me growing up. Occasionally, writing something helps me deal with it.
FWIW, in a Bookslut interview, Chris Adrian said: “It’s more that I feel kind of awful about something and I go write for a while to feel better — which describes everyone I know who writes.”
If I’m cutting all the shit the real reason I write at all is that I’m a shitty speaker with a brutally accurate memory of all the horrible things that happened to me/I let happen to me growing up. Occasionally, writing something helps me deal with it.
FWIW, in a Bookslut interview, Chris Adrian said: “It’s more that I feel kind of awful about something and I go write for a while to feel better — which describes everyone I know who writes.”
That largely sums up my reason for writing
i like this. I think this is the most realistic way to respond to the question of life-changing publications. But David, would it still not be awesome if The New Yorker asked you for a story?
how long do your publication highs last? (please differentiate between book, anthology, and journal.)
I’m assuming/hoping that the high lasts longer the higher up the totem pole you climb. Like some infinitely tall mountain that contains some plateaus you can stroll across as a break until you have to climb again. So getting in some small magazine feels good for a few days. Getting in a big magazine will decrease your stress for a month. Hopefully a book gives you a two year or more grace period to stop freaking out.
That largely sums up my reason for writing
i like this. I think this is the most realistic way to respond to the question of life-changing publications. But David, would it still not be awesome if The New Yorker asked you for a story?
how long do your publication highs last? (please differentiate between book, anthology, and journal.)
I’m assuming/hoping that the high lasts longer the higher up the totem pole you climb. Like some infinitely tall mountain that contains some plateaus you can stroll across as a break until you have to climb again. So getting in some small magazine feels good for a few days. Getting in a big magazine will decrease your stress for a month. Hopefully a book gives you a two year or more grace period to stop freaking out.
Oh, the whydoyouwrite question is loaded. I like this answer: I really don’t know how to do anything else.
Oh, the whydoyouwrite question is loaded. I like this answer: I really don’t know how to do anything else.
“i don’t think anyone has come very close to the reason i personally write, which is not something i can exactly name.”
these aren’t the reasons i write. when i write i don’t think about journals at all. that comes when i finish a piece and i whisper to it in the envelope, “go find a home, prick”
“how long do your publication highs last?”
a day when it gets accepted, another when i see the object (whether printed or online)
“i don’t think anyone has come very close to the reason i personally write, which is not something i can exactly name.”
these aren’t the reasons i write. when i write i don’t think about journals at all. that comes when i finish a piece and i whisper to it in the envelope, “go find a home, prick”
“how long do your publication highs last?”
a day when it gets accepted, another when i see the object (whether printed or online)
right before i left for my mfa in boston, i got a letter from my buddy charles d’ambrosio who wrote a fucking sincere, monster of a letter in response to my question: do you have any advice heading into grad school? i’m going to include a short little excerpt:
“But a writer is the person with both the terrible sensitivity and the strength to see that his pain, his separation from others, his loneliness and despair, is not his alone, that in fact it binds him to others, to all the people now and in the past and in the future who’ve ever felt lonely or lost or in despair and considered giving up or perhaps did, in fact, give up. His loss is his insight, his pain isn’t personal, his separation is a source of community, his anguish is his character and his despair is his spirit. And the writer is the one who doesn’t give up, the one who writes the next sentence, who offers, in a sense, the spectacle of a kind of foolish courage in the face of loneliness or pain or the certain defeat of time, a courage that others can’t really imagine.”
and naysayers could point and say, well everything charlie writes goes into The New Yorker, but if you really know dude’s life you know he walked his shit besides talking it. sure we’d all love accolades, however temporary, and we’d love to think our works will last into future epochs. we have no control over most of that. i write because a) language has always principally intrigued me. i used to do visual arts and actually b-boyed for 7 years. but i didn’t get into writing just to “tell stories.” if narrative was my major concern, i’d get into making movies or television. the things language can solely do interest and invigorate me. b) that shared sense of community between fringe motherfuckers. like-minded motherfuckers who know how weird and ridiculous it is to be plagued by a sentence all night. c) to be in a “conversation” with the literary giants. beckett, barthelme, joyce, yourself, whomever has ever written.
so, going back to the mag list, i’d have to say my picks because of what they represent and also who has been in their pages is:
NY TYRANT
NO COLONY
American Short Fiction
Gulf Coast
Open City
The Paris Review
A Public Space
right before i left for my mfa in boston, i got a letter from my buddy charles d’ambrosio who wrote a fucking sincere, monster of a letter in response to my question: do you have any advice heading into grad school? i’m going to include a short little excerpt:
“But a writer is the person with both the terrible sensitivity and the strength to see that his pain, his separation from others, his loneliness and despair, is not his alone, that in fact it binds him to others, to all the people now and in the past and in the future who’ve ever felt lonely or lost or in despair and considered giving up or perhaps did, in fact, give up. His loss is his insight, his pain isn’t personal, his separation is a source of community, his anguish is his character and his despair is his spirit. And the writer is the one who doesn’t give up, the one who writes the next sentence, who offers, in a sense, the spectacle of a kind of foolish courage in the face of loneliness or pain or the certain defeat of time, a courage that others can’t really imagine.”
and naysayers could point and say, well everything charlie writes goes into The New Yorker, but if you really know dude’s life you know he walked his shit besides talking it. sure we’d all love accolades, however temporary, and we’d love to think our works will last into future epochs. we have no control over most of that. i write because a) language has always principally intrigued me. i used to do visual arts and actually b-boyed for 7 years. but i didn’t get into writing just to “tell stories.” if narrative was my major concern, i’d get into making movies or television. the things language can solely do interest and invigorate me. b) that shared sense of community between fringe motherfuckers. like-minded motherfuckers who know how weird and ridiculous it is to be plagued by a sentence all night. c) to be in a “conversation” with the literary giants. beckett, barthelme, joyce, yourself, whomever has ever written.
so, going back to the mag list, i’d have to say my picks because of what they represent and also who has been in their pages is:
NY TYRANT
NO COLONY
American Short Fiction
Gulf Coast
Open City
The Paris Review
A Public Space
I agree with this. When I write, it isn’t about publication in anything but the vaguest sense (trying to write something that will communicate to others, not just some diary thing).
Thinking about journals waits till afterward.
I’ve never tried to decide how to mold a story or character based on some journal I wanted to place fiction in.
I agree with this. When I write, it isn’t about publication in anything but the vaguest sense (trying to write something that will communicate to others, not just some diary thing).
Thinking about journals waits till afterward.
I’ve never tried to decide how to mold a story or character based on some journal I wanted to place fiction in.
hmm. i dont know if that’s an answer either. it’s too arbitrary. surely you know how to drive a car? and how to make a sandwich?
simply imagining yourself unable to do anything else seems a bad reason to write, to me.
and not true for probably all people, because anyone can do something else.
hmm. i dont know if that’s an answer either. it’s too arbitrary. surely you know how to drive a car? and how to make a sandwich?
simply imagining yourself unable to do anything else seems a bad reason to write, to me.
and not true for probably all people, because anyone can do something else.
hmm, i’m not stating myself very well.
hmm, i’m not stating myself very well.
i write because i have a billion things in my head screaming at me to let them out, and doing so holds off some sliver of depression that hangs on me like a shadow.
i work on my writing because i want to be the best at whatever i do.
i write because i have a billion things in my head screaming at me to let them out, and doing so holds off some sliver of depression that hangs on me like a shadow.
i work on my writing because i want to be the best at whatever i do.
hey Blake, good job on moderating the discussion. interesting reading throughout the thread
hey Blake, good job on moderating the discussion. interesting reading throughout the thread
thanks peter. i’m just asking honest questions :)
thanks peter. i’m just asking honest questions :)
how about: why do people write and carry on with the vague intent to eventually probably send the work outside of the computer.
how about: why do people write and carry on with the vague intent to eventually probably send the work outside of the computer.
saying it is a wholly pure act w/o consideration to others is a lie almost across the board, i can think of very few exceptions.
saying it is a wholly pure act w/o consideration to others is a lie almost across the board, i can think of very few exceptions.
New York Tyrant and No Colony
Oh I was absolutely not saying it was any kind of pure act, and I didn’t mean I have only a vague “intent” to publish. I probably worded it wrong. I meant more that I do not think so much about the specifics of publication, as in what journals would be good for this, how to change the story to fit a specific journal’s aesthetics, etc. I certainly have an intent to try and publish whatever I’m writing, but normally I dont’ concern myself with the specifics of who would be good to try until after it is done.
New York Tyrant and No Colony
Oh I was absolutely not saying it was any kind of pure act, and I didn’t mean I have only a vague “intent” to publish. I probably worded it wrong. I meant more that I do not think so much about the specifics of publication, as in what journals would be good for this, how to change the story to fit a specific journal’s aesthetics, etc. I certainly have an intent to try and publish whatever I’m writing, but normally I dont’ concern myself with the specifics of who would be good to try until after it is done.
word
word
i try to get the work published because i have a large ego and like attention. also, if one day a career could be made of it, that would be way cooler than the other jobs i’m likely to have during my life.
i try to get the work published because i have a large ego and like attention. also, if one day a career could be made of it, that would be way cooler than the other jobs i’m likely to have during my life.
i remember thinking a few years back. wow, it would be cool to get in —, —, and — journals, then i did, and i felt good about myself for a minute. then i thought the same thing about better journals, then i got in them…
now, i really dont think i give a shit about getting in any particular journal. whether my stuff is in one journal or another doesn’t matter to me anymore. i don’t feel better or worse about one journal or another. and unless someone specifically asks me for something or i run across a journal that i think is fun, ie- TRAILER PARk QUARTERLY, KILL AUTHOR, PANK, i don’t bother. i just dont care enough anymore.
however, i care more and more about books. i am working hard on two novels and i would trade my balls to get them published. of course i would prefer a big house because i care about readership… i think thats it for me. i just want people to read it….
maybe its ego, but i dont think so…
for me its an alternative to st peter and his pearly gates, maybe an attempt to secure some sort of after life, my greatest desire is never to be forgotten. perhaps thats unrealistic, but its my truth. immortality. not in the egomaniacal sense, more in a spiritual sense…
anyone feel me?
i remember thinking a few years back. wow, it would be cool to get in —, —, and — journals, then i did, and i felt good about myself for a minute. then i thought the same thing about better journals, then i got in them…
now, i really dont think i give a shit about getting in any particular journal. whether my stuff is in one journal or another doesn’t matter to me anymore. i don’t feel better or worse about one journal or another. and unless someone specifically asks me for something or i run across a journal that i think is fun, ie- TRAILER PARk QUARTERLY, KILL AUTHOR, PANK, i don’t bother. i just dont care enough anymore.
however, i care more and more about books. i am working hard on two novels and i would trade my balls to get them published. of course i would prefer a big house because i care about readership… i think thats it for me. i just want people to read it….
maybe its ego, but i dont think so…
for me its an alternative to st peter and his pearly gates, maybe an attempt to secure some sort of after life, my greatest desire is never to be forgotten. perhaps thats unrealistic, but its my truth. immortality. not in the egomaniacal sense, more in a spiritual sense…
anyone feel me?
i feel you in the spiritual sense for sure, and in the way of the want becoming returns.
why do you sit down the keyboard every day
is it really with the goal of immortality?
or is it more arbitrary than that, minutely
i feel you in the spiritual sense for sure, and in the way of the want becoming returns.
why do you sit down the keyboard every day
is it really with the goal of immortality?
or is it more arbitrary than that, minutely
i know it sounds stupid, but every word i put down on the page i am concious of whether or not it is worthy of being read for eternity. will the next generation care about this? absolutey, that is on my mind. its a curse. thats why i write so slowly. it often takes me a week to finish a paragraph.
i know it sounds stupid, but every word i put down on the page i am concious of whether or not it is worthy of being read for eternity. will the next generation care about this? absolutey, that is on my mind. its a curse. thats why i write so slowly. it often takes me a week to finish a paragraph.
You crack me up, David, but I do understand what you mean. It is funny how we’re obsessively waiting to get paid nothing for our writing. We are the mouse in the spinning wheel.
You crack me up, David, but I do understand what you mean. It is funny how we’re obsessively waiting to get paid nothing for our writing. We are the mouse in the spinning wheel.
Koan for artists: ‘Why do what you do? Because you will.’
Koan for artists: ‘Why do what you do? Because you will.’
Also, I think the why of the act is hard to define. I think most people think they have more control over internal id compulsions than they do. I’ve found that most storytellers I know would best be satiated by the ‘answer’ above?
Why do what you do? Because you will.
Also, I think the why of the act is hard to define. I think most people think they have more control over internal id compulsions than they do. I’ve found that most storytellers I know would best be satiated by the ‘answer’ above?
Why do what you do? Because you will.
I write because I like it. I find it fun. I also write because I come from a country where half of the population is illiterate and so I’m one of the lucky ones and I probably shouldn’t waste the ability to read and write by not doing anything with it.
I write because I like it. I find it fun. I also write because I come from a country where half of the population is illiterate and so I’m one of the lucky ones and I probably shouldn’t waste the ability to read and write by not doing anything with it.
Funny, although maybe not true.
Funny, although maybe not true.
i write and read for the same reasons i listen to music.
i like rhythm, i like language, i like it when space opens up inside and outside myself.
i like it when moving images make me forget i have arms and legs for two minutes.
if someone told me i took them outside their body for three seconds, just by using my words, i’d high-five them.
i find myself submitting to journals that have rejected me over and over again because an acceptance from them would mean something, i guess.
i like to read other people’s words because reading other people’s words makes me want to write. maybe that’s similar for other people?
damn, barry, we’re the polar opposites. i see a 60ish version of myself cringing as i come across the one or two stories of mine still around on the internet. i recently came across some print journals i got pub’d in about seven or eight years ago and i couldn’t read past the first paragraph. heartbreakingly awful. i know some “real”/”good” writers say the same thing about their early work…but what about those of us who don’t really make strides/improve as writers?
i write and read for the same reasons i listen to music.
i like rhythm, i like language, i like it when space opens up inside and outside myself.
i like it when moving images make me forget i have arms and legs for two minutes.
if someone told me i took them outside their body for three seconds, just by using my words, i’d high-five them.
i find myself submitting to journals that have rejected me over and over again because an acceptance from them would mean something, i guess.
i like to read other people’s words because reading other people’s words makes me want to write. maybe that’s similar for other people?
damn, barry, we’re the polar opposites. i see a 60ish version of myself cringing as i come across the one or two stories of mine still around on the internet. i recently came across some print journals i got pub’d in about seven or eight years ago and i couldn’t read past the first paragraph. heartbreakingly awful. i know some “real”/”good” writers say the same thing about their early work…but what about those of us who don’t really make strides/improve as writers?
Last sentence first paragraph should end with a period.
Last sentence first paragraph should end with a period.
oh, and:
carve magazine
tri-quarterly
and for personal reasons:
bust down the door and eat all the chickens
i can relate to everything you said.
oh, and:
carve magazine
tri-quarterly
and for personal reasons:
bust down the door and eat all the chickens
i can relate to everything you said.
I like what you’re saying, and agree; from two of my favorite writers/people:
Novelists are people who have discovered that they can dampen their neuroses by writing make-believe. We will keep doing that no matter what, while offering loftier explanations.
Kurt Vonnegut
I had a teacher I liked who used to say good fiction’s job was to comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable. I guess a big part of serious fiction’s purpose is to give the reader, who like all of us is sort of marooned in her own skull, to give her imaginative access to other selves. Since an ineluctable part of being a human self is suffering, part of what we humans come to art for is an experience of suffering, necessarily a vicarious experience, more like a sort of “generalization” of suffering. Does this make sense? We all suffer alone in the real world; true empathy’s impossible. But if a piece of fiction can allow us imaginatively to identify with a character’s pain, we might then also more easily conceive of others identifying with our own. This is nourishing, redemptive; we become less alone inside. It might be just that simple.
David Foster Wallace
We are here on Earth to fart around. Don’t let anybody tell you any different.
Kurt Vonnegut
and more from DeLillo and Dean Young and Bernhard, more I’ve found true here:
http://kenbaumann.com/quotes.html
I like what you’re saying, and agree; from two of my favorite writers/people:
Novelists are people who have discovered that they can dampen their neuroses by writing make-believe. We will keep doing that no matter what, while offering loftier explanations.
Kurt Vonnegut
I had a teacher I liked who used to say good fiction’s job was to comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable. I guess a big part of serious fiction’s purpose is to give the reader, who like all of us is sort of marooned in her own skull, to give her imaginative access to other selves. Since an ineluctable part of being a human self is suffering, part of what we humans come to art for is an experience of suffering, necessarily a vicarious experience, more like a sort of “generalization” of suffering. Does this make sense? We all suffer alone in the real world; true empathy’s impossible. But if a piece of fiction can allow us imaginatively to identify with a character’s pain, we might then also more easily conceive of others identifying with our own. This is nourishing, redemptive; we become less alone inside. It might be just that simple.
David Foster Wallace
We are here on Earth to fart around. Don’t let anybody tell you any different.
Kurt Vonnegut
and more from DeLillo and Dean Young and Bernhard, more I’ve found true here:
http://kenbaumann.com/quotes.html
less interested, i think, in why people write than why they publish, and what they expect from it, and what they get
less interested, i think, in why people write than why they publish, and what they expect from it, and what they get
i thought, in the beginning, if i published a few stories then i’d feel like a “writer.”
i still don’t feel like a writer. i feel like i dick around most of the time.
i just really want to feel like a writer. i expect this to come true someday but also expect to never believe it.
i can only speak for myself.
i thought, in the beginning, if i published a few stories then i’d feel like a “writer.”
i still don’t feel like a writer. i feel like i dick around most of the time.
i just really want to feel like a writer. i expect this to come true someday but also expect to never believe it.
i can only speak for myself.
these are nice and real
these are nice and real
Good thread. I write for the same reasons I used to act, for the same reasons I submit my writing, for the same reasons I do readings. I do all of these to assert that I exist, that in some way, I matter. It’s all a plaintive wail into the void, really.
Good thread. I write for the same reasons I used to act, for the same reasons I submit my writing, for the same reasons I do readings. I do all of these to assert that I exist, that in some way, I matter. It’s all a plaintive wail into the void, really.
that is a fun list
you don’t have to get published for that to happen.
that is a fun list
I try to get published so that people will want to fuck me.
you don’t have to get published for that to happen.
nice. very clear. this sort of cleared my mind. the sound of one hand clapper-ing.
nice. very clear. this sort of cleared my mind. the sound of one hand clapper-ing.
“less interested, i think, in why people write than why they publish”
that’s kind of like why people fuck after getting naked. it seems like the logical next step.
sorry, that was more smartass than serious.
“less interested, i think, in why people write than why they publish”
that’s kind of like why people fuck after getting naked. it seems like the logical next step.
sorry, that was more smartass than serious.
thats a pretty mixed metaphor yo
thats a pretty mixed metaphor yo
sorry, pr mentioned sex, that’s all it takes to derail me. i have very little cognitive ability as it is.
sorry, pr mentioned sex, that’s all it takes to derail me. i have very little cognitive ability as it is.
“Novelists are people who have discovered that they can dampen their neuroses by writing make-believe.”I love Kurt and he’s a genuis and all that, ,but this seems very personal.
My experience has been the exact opposite in that as the years go on, and I continue to choose a life where I read and write more than most humans and generally speaking, am pretty isolated from a more normal, interacting-with-humans way of life, I find that that choice has made me crazier than I was. And I was always pretty crazy. But as a lifestyle, I think being a writer is unhealthy. And I think that spending a good 20 years writing has made me, more than I have made anything. And it’s made me pretty nuts.
Just a thought.
Sorry. I actually wasn’t being completely funny with that comment. As a former seriouls rock chick, I will say that many a musician plays music to get laid. And, well. Yeah.
Also, the idea of “logical next step” isn’t all that bad.
Nice.
Nice.
Why I share anything I make: To feel important and to effect others emotionally.
Why I share anything I make: To feel important and to effect others emotionally.
very interesting, pr, and i have to say i can see myself getting nuttier and nuttier the more i write. there’s a funny part in one of those “writer” books (maybe an annie dillard one?) where she compares herself to a neighbor – he is a volunteer fireman, all around do-gooder, and he seems to know everyone on the street and how to fix all kinds of things. She questions her choice to be a writer and says compared to him she sits in a tiny room for almost all her waking hours imagining fake conversations and contributing little to society (i’m paraphrasing as it’s been about 10 years since I read it). It was pretty damn scary when I first read that.
Erik’s Top Picks:
Getting published in a Supreme Court decision would be nice. Something like “this not protected under first amendment.” Or “this proves abortion should be legal.”
Popular Mechanics.
Gay porno from the 80s (requires time machine). Would also like to specify on-genitals text placement.
very interesting, pr, and i have to say i can see myself getting nuttier and nuttier the more i write. there’s a funny part in one of those “writer” books (maybe an annie dillard one?) where she compares herself to a neighbor – he is a volunteer fireman, all around do-gooder, and he seems to know everyone on the street and how to fix all kinds of things. She questions her choice to be a writer and says compared to him she sits in a tiny room for almost all her waking hours imagining fake conversations and contributing little to society (i’m paraphrasing as it’s been about 10 years since I read it). It was pretty damn scary when I first read that.
Erik’s Top Picks:
Getting published in a Supreme Court decision would be nice. Something like “this not protected under first amendment.” Or “this proves abortion should be legal.”
Popular Mechanics.
Gay porno from the 80s (requires time machine). Would also like to specify on-genitals text placement.
when i was a kid my parents said i could do whatever i wanted when i grew up
i don’t want them to be liars
i don’t think it is quite the ‘logical’ next step really, or at least not ‘natural’
many people, myself included, wrote for years and years before the idea of sending it out actively came into the picture
it is a learned response, which seems much opposite to the nature of fucking
i am waiting for someone to say the thing that i am thinking and can’t figure out how to say right
when i was a kid my parents said i could do whatever i wanted when i grew up
i don’t want them to be liars
i don’t think it is quite the ‘logical’ next step really, or at least not ‘natural’
many people, myself included, wrote for years and years before the idea of sending it out actively came into the picture
it is a learned response, which seems much opposite to the nature of fucking
i am waiting for someone to say the thing that i am thinking and can’t figure out how to say right
most ambitious / my favorite
most ambitious / my favorite
Exactly.
Everything that emerges, ready for someone else to read, is an act of violence.
When we have really and truly processed and understood the information contained in what we read, our brains have physically been altered by the process, real, slimy, Brain-That-Couldn’t-Die neurosurgery, organic parts moved around to accommodate that new information. Connections- real, physical connections- have been forged that never existed before. In a very real way, we have altered our conscious mind in the act of reading, and because it is the prism through which we experience the world, we have changed our world, too.
Anything that doesn’t aspire to that sort of violence is not ready for someone else’s eyes.
That is all anyone can expect from publishing. The outlet is chosen, when thought is given to it, out of a desire to reach those readers who will give the story the attention it deserves, who will subject themselves to that violence willingly.
Also: Because, for me, trying to get a film made or publish a novel or act in a film or series is more challenging than digging ditches, and subjectively more meaningful, and more fun.
Everything that emerges, ready for someone else to read, is an act of violence.
When we have really and truly processed and understood the information contained in what we read, our brains have physically been altered by the process, real, slimy, Brain-That-Couldn’t-Die neurosurgery, organic parts moved around to accommodate that new information. Connections- real, physical connections- have been forged that never existed before. In a very real way, we have altered our conscious mind in the act of reading, and because it is the prism through which we experience the world, we have changed our world, too.
Anything that doesn’t aspire to that sort of violence is not ready for someone else’s eyes.
That is all anyone can expect from publishing. The outlet is chosen, when thought is given to it, out of a desire to reach those readers who will give the story the attention it deserves, who will subject themselves to that violence willingly.
Also: Because, for me, trying to get a film made or publish a novel or act in a film or series is more challenging than digging ditches, and subjectively more meaningful, and more fun.
Thank you Catherine. I would like to amend that part where I said getting in the New Yorker wouldn’t change anything. I’d do all sorts of filthy things to get in the New Yorker.
Well of course there are years of being a “beginner” or whatever and knowing that and maybe not sending stuff out. I mean, when I was 16 I wasn’t sending my stuff out. But as an adult who dedicates themselves to writing fiction, I mean, yeah, the logical next step after writing is trying to get published.
Or at least that’s what I think.
Thank you Catherine. I would like to amend that part where I said getting in the New Yorker wouldn’t change anything. I’d do all sorts of filthy things to get in the New Yorker.
Is it violence, though? Or growth, expansion, change even. I feel like ‘violence’ feels good to use in the mode of Zîzék, but I don’t know if it really should apply in the example of neural pathways connecting… Is the brain being damaged intentionally by reading?
Is it violence, though? Or growth, expansion, change even. I feel like ‘violence’ feels good to use in the mode of Zîzék, but I don’t know if it really should apply in the example of neural pathways connecting… Is the brain being damaged intentionally by reading?
i wasn’t seriously saying it was the next step. i know a lot of people who write for themselves and close friends/family. sometimes i can’t help screwing around.
i wasn’t seriously saying it was the next step. i know a lot of people who write for themselves and close friends/family. sometimes i can’t help screwing around.
i think this is the real question at heart here.
This is a fun riddle. I feel like I know what it is…
An exorcism? A conversation with yourself? Finding the shine at the end of the tunnel?
Fun riddle.
i think this is the real question at heart here.
This is a fun riddle. I feel like I know what it is…
An exorcism? A conversation with yourself? Finding the shine at the end of the tunnel?
Fun riddle.
Hey Roxane! I’m just being a little bitch these days, subconsciously (and consciously) trying to justify my inability to write anything. Hopefully I’ll get back in the spinning wheel soon but maybe i’ll eat a little peanut butter nestled on a shiny black rectangle. By little bitch I mean that I’m paid plenty and I never intended to write for the money but sometimes it’s pathetic how desperately and often I check my yahoo account.
Yeah, but isn’t the big, base neuroses (fear, imagination, etc) what drove one to write in the first place?
Everything else just seems like a change in habit, which, yeah, I guess is explicitly ‘weirder’, but not in the way that K.V. meant, I think.
champ
“I will say that many a musician plays music to get laid. And, well. Yeah.”
i’ve always played music because it was one of three things that made me feel transcendently happy. unfortunately writing is not one of those things, as much as a i love it.
it’s been weird not having the time to play music anymore. also when i was actively playing music the girls that were interested were crazy. like really.
Hey Roxane! I’m just being a little bitch these days, subconsciously (and consciously) trying to justify my inability to write anything. Hopefully I’ll get back in the spinning wheel soon but maybe i’ll eat a little peanut butter nestled on a shiny black rectangle. By little bitch I mean that I’m paid plenty and I never intended to write for the money but sometimes it’s pathetic how desperately and often I check my yahoo account.
Yeah, but isn’t the big, base neuroses (fear, imagination, etc) what drove one to write in the first place?
Everything else just seems like a change in habit, which, yeah, I guess is explicitly ‘weirder’, but not in the way that K.V. meant, I think.
champ
“I will say that many a musician plays music to get laid. And, well. Yeah.”
i’ve always played music because it was one of three things that made me feel transcendently happy. unfortunately writing is not one of those things, as much as a i love it.
it’s been weird not having the time to play music anymore. also when i was actively playing music the girls that were interested were crazy. like really.
i didn’t know we could go back in time. i have a poem i’d like to publish as a tattoo on hemingway’s dick.
i didn’t know we could go back in time. i have a poem i’d like to publish as a tattoo on hemingway’s dick.
you speak for this david, too.
you speak for this david, too.
davids 4-evs
heart heart heart
davids 4-evs
heart heart heart
blake,
i’d be interested to hear you/see you make an attempt at your thoughts. has anyone come close to what you’re thinking? have you tried to put your thoughts into words recently?
It is growth, expansion and change, as you say. That is the baseline of any experience, literary or otherwise. Anytime you meet someone, the act of paring your fingernails, buying a vacuum cleaner– all change, all expansion, all growth of some kind.
Writing (like any art) gives you the opportunity to channel some of that growth. Yes, I believe it is violent, in the way that ranting at someone is violent. Thomas Bernhard’s “Gargoyles,” Celine’s “Journey to the End of Night.” Burroughs’s cutups. Beckett. Daniel Paul Schreber. I don’t attach any particular stigma to the violent. All change willed by someone else is violent, even if the person being acted upon is complicit.
blake,
i’d be interested to hear you/see you make an attempt at your thoughts. has anyone come close to what you’re thinking? have you tried to put your thoughts into words recently?
It is growth, expansion and change, as you say. That is the baseline of any experience, literary or otherwise. Anytime you meet someone, the act of paring your fingernails, buying a vacuum cleaner– all change, all expansion, all growth of some kind.
Writing (like any art) gives you the opportunity to channel some of that growth. Yes, I believe it is violent, in the way that ranting at someone is violent. Thomas Bernhard’s “Gargoyles,” Celine’s “Journey to the End of Night.” Burroughs’s cutups. Beckett. Daniel Paul Schreber. I don’t attach any particular stigma to the violent. All change willed by someone else is violent, even if the person being acted upon is complicit.
I Whatever drives someone to write is fine- but the act of writing has not dampened my neuroses. I’m glad it dampened Kurt’s or anyone’s for that matter. But that has not been my experience.
The I is a booboo
Transcendentally happy… I love that. Listening to music can do that to me.
That we’ll be able to telepathically communicate with cats?
That we’ll be able to telepathically communicate with cats?
WIN.
WIN.
i think “life changing publications” is a direct relation to ego. nothing is life changing and everything is life changing. it really depends on my point of perspective at the time. ask the same question 20 years from now and i think the answers would change drastically.
i would rather have some one tell me “that poem you posted on your blog affected me” or self produce a chapbook/novella/novel and hear a some one tell me “your chapbook was really good. this is why i liked it.”
yes, feeling good from feedback is part of ego also but i think it is genuine compared to wanting to be published in some big name print journal.
as far as why to i write or feel the need to write i think the answer is somewhat universal: i am aware of my loneliness, of my alienation and of my self. the act of writing is perverse to me. all those hours alone, slaving over letters and words and sentences while others are out being normal and “enjoying life”. it takes a lonely, intelligent person to want and to suffer this thing called writing.
writing is a way of coping with the internal loneliness. it is a way to occupy the mind.
the need to create i think is instinctual.
anyways what do i know. i came late to the party.
i like what darby said up above.
i think “life changing publications” is a direct relation to ego. nothing is life changing and everything is life changing. it really depends on my point of perspective at the time. ask the same question 20 years from now and i think the answers would change drastically.
i would rather have some one tell me “that poem you posted on your blog affected me” or self produce a chapbook/novella/novel and hear a some one tell me “your chapbook was really good. this is why i liked it.”
yes, feeling good from feedback is part of ego also but i think it is genuine compared to wanting to be published in some big name print journal.
as far as why to i write or feel the need to write i think the answer is somewhat universal: i am aware of my loneliness, of my alienation and of my self. the act of writing is perverse to me. all those hours alone, slaving over letters and words and sentences while others are out being normal and “enjoying life”. it takes a lonely, intelligent person to want and to suffer this thing called writing.
writing is a way of coping with the internal loneliness. it is a way to occupy the mind.
the need to create i think is instinctual.
anyways what do i know. i came late to the party.
i like what darby said up above.
It’s impossible. Won’t happen.
It’s impossible. Won’t happen.
I telepathically communicate with cats. Perhaps I am Gene’s great granddaughter reincarnated into the past.
listening to music also works. music in general really revs my engine.
listening to music also works. music in general really revs my engine.
i write to get laid and i think everyone on here does too.
if you say you don’t, you’re a liar.
but seriously, has writing ever landed someone a chick? i can’t see it happening, unless you’re neil gaiman, because everyone knows that chicks who dig coraline put out like mad.
which brings me to the question: what is it about music that makes some girls really into you?
i’ve been wondering this. i’m sorry. this is completely off topic. but i need help, and lots of it.
i write to get laid and i think everyone on here does too.
if you say you don’t, you’re a liar.
but seriously, has writing ever landed someone a chick? i can’t see it happening, unless you’re neil gaiman, because everyone knows that chicks who dig coraline put out like mad.
which brings me to the question: what is it about music that makes some girls really into you?
i’ve been wondering this. i’m sorry. this is completely off topic. but i need help, and lots of it.
an act of violence is when you smash someone over the skull with the king james.
reading is optional. people choose it.
nobody chooses for me to sneak into their rooms at 3 in the morning with a bible and some really twisted sexual fantasies.
an act of violence is when you smash someone over the skull with the king james.
reading is optional. people choose it.
nobody chooses for me to sneak into their rooms at 3 in the morning with a bible and some really twisted sexual fantasies.
I hate to be a stickler, but if we go by the books and try to distill that change to it’s purest definition, wouldn’t coercion be more accurate? Or even more accurate: pressure? Or… something else?
To will another to grow. I feel that would be the definition for the word I want to use.
As opposed to ‘will another harm’, which is akin to violence.
And if this seems banal/annoying/nitpicky, pardon me. I, too, don’t mind the use of the word in this spoken of context. I like the word very much, sonically, etc.
I hate to be a stickler, but if we go by the books and try to distill that change to it’s purest definition, wouldn’t coercion be more accurate? Or even more accurate: pressure? Or… something else?
To will another to grow. I feel that would be the definition for the word I want to use.
As opposed to ‘will another harm’, which is akin to violence.
And if this seems banal/annoying/nitpicky, pardon me. I, too, don’t mind the use of the word in this spoken of context. I like the word very much, sonically, etc.
Corny, I know, but this just came to me:
Love?
Is that not more accurate?
Is it not love?
Corny, I know, but this just came to me:
Love?
Is that not more accurate?
Is it not love?
And to slice out a little bit of context from the aforementioned Zîzék, that ties in perfectly. He does believe that love is violent, but more in the way of saying ‘I like you more than I like all others’, which is a formal harm.
reading a story of mine made my now wife more interested in me than she was before she read it. does that count?
i don’t write to get laid. if i want that i just cross my fingers that the baby will go to sleep.
And to slice out a little bit of context from the aforementioned Zîzék, that ties in perfectly. He does believe that love is violent, but more in the way of saying ‘I like you more than I like all others’, which is a formal harm.
reading a story of mine made my now wife more interested in me than she was before she read it. does that count?
i don’t write to get laid. if i want that i just cross my fingers that the baby will go to sleep.
just killed a half hour reading all the comments. everything yes. i think the sincerity of this thread has maxed out htmlg’s quota. what’s happening to the giant? ;)
symbols have always fascinated me: alphanumeric, greek, roman, hieroglyphic, ideogrammic, etc. they seem to possess a latent life and mystery that if activated can unfold like a portal, unleash a dimension of knowledge or awe, or reveal onself to a larger world in the very world they inhabit. physics, mathematics, philosophy, poetry, literature, computer code. an act of discovery that parts two curtains only to be re-enshrouded by an aura of still further and endless depths. it doesn’t happen as much any more these days, and i think as i get older it will happen less and less, but i still see the potential and the nature of symbols as primarily portal-like, across every domain: personal, emotional, faculty of reason sphere, mystical, etc. etc.
the notion of communion (an agnostic version), and derivatives of communion, informs much of my framework of life. any situation, from the most ordinary of activities to near-traumatic events, has the potential to reveal the world as raw presence. and with this understanding I approach writing, simply with the intention to participate, in some meaningful way, with the presence around me. words offer a kind of anonymous intimacy, enabling people who might never meet to connect and participate in each other’s life, to engage in a brief or lasting communion. one that may influence a person’s life, or, at the very least, offer temporary comfort or a very nice transport.
nietzsche distinguished two types of selfishness. one selfishness is due to lack, of not having and needing. the other is due to a state of abundance and overflowing, of wanting to gather more, to take in the world and all experiences to thereby become a sacrificial and spring-fed fountain of treasures spilling over, to have something to offer and so be broken off in the act of being consumed and in communion with others.
the latent mystery of the symbol, and the transtemporal union of two minds, together are a significant factor in my compulsion to write. but day-to-day, i suppose, is to distract myself from suicidal depression, keeping the fingers busy, with the hope that the culmination of days apporaches periodic moments (mediated by the act of publication) of a far-off reader briefly inhabiting my words and igniting a spark plug of contact, as i have had the fortune to do with others living and dead.
just killed a half hour reading all the comments. everything yes. i think the sincerity of this thread has maxed out htmlg’s quota. what’s happening to the giant? ;)
symbols have always fascinated me: alphanumeric, greek, roman, hieroglyphic, ideogrammic, etc. they seem to possess a latent life and mystery that if activated can unfold like a portal, unleash a dimension of knowledge or awe, or reveal onself to a larger world in the very world they inhabit. physics, mathematics, philosophy, poetry, literature, computer code. an act of discovery that parts two curtains only to be re-enshrouded by an aura of still further and endless depths. it doesn’t happen as much any more these days, and i think as i get older it will happen less and less, but i still see the potential and the nature of symbols as primarily portal-like, across every domain: personal, emotional, faculty of reason sphere, mystical, etc. etc.
the notion of communion (an agnostic version), and derivatives of communion, informs much of my framework of life. any situation, from the most ordinary of activities to near-traumatic events, has the potential to reveal the world as raw presence. and with this understanding I approach writing, simply with the intention to participate, in some meaningful way, with the presence around me. words offer a kind of anonymous intimacy, enabling people who might never meet to connect and participate in each other’s life, to engage in a brief or lasting communion. one that may influence a person’s life, or, at the very least, offer temporary comfort or a very nice transport.
nietzsche distinguished two types of selfishness. one selfishness is due to lack, of not having and needing. the other is due to a state of abundance and overflowing, of wanting to gather more, to take in the world and all experiences to thereby become a sacrificial and spring-fed fountain of treasures spilling over, to have something to offer and so be broken off in the act of being consumed and in communion with others.
the latent mystery of the symbol, and the transtemporal union of two minds, together are a significant factor in my compulsion to write. but day-to-day, i suppose, is to distract myself from suicidal depression, keeping the fingers busy, with the hope that the culmination of days apporaches periodic moments (mediated by the act of publication) of a far-off reader briefly inhabiting my words and igniting a spark plug of contact, as i have had the fortune to do with others living and dead.
haha
haha
many are close-ish, on certain wavelengths, but in the primary mode i am centered around, no, not really close at all
trying to put it into words right now wouldn’t work, but i will continue to try to think of how i could
i am enjoying listening right now
I write for the same reason that I take a shit every morning (if I’m lucky). And I publish for the same reason that I get dressed before I go outside. If I ever published in the New Yorker I’d use it to wipe my ass with (because I’d know that that story in the New Yorker wasn’t the kind of shit that is mine to shit out).
many are close-ish, on certain wavelengths, but in the primary mode i am centered around, no, not really close at all
trying to put it into words right now wouldn’t work, but i will continue to try to think of how i could
i am enjoying listening right now
I write for the same reason that I take a shit every morning (if I’m lucky). And I publish for the same reason that I get dressed before I go outside. If I ever published in the New Yorker I’d use it to wipe my ass with (because I’d know that that story in the New Yorker wasn’t the kind of shit that is mine to shit out).
Music is more immediate and easily accessed than literature. It is more powerful sensually in the short term.
I’ve never wanted to be a musician, but do think that there’s no art more powerful in the way of wooing than music. So, yeah. Damn those musicians.
Music is more immediate and easily accessed than literature. It is more powerful sensually in the short term.
I’ve never wanted to be a musician, but do think that there’s no art more powerful in the way of wooing than music. So, yeah. Damn those musicians.
i’d have to say, for myself, i do not think it is love
though i love the object outside myself, and i get physical/mental pleasure from the act of writing (not the sending out), it is not, i think, love based
the violence is on the right path, but i do not think it is a quantifiable or even active kind of violence
publishing does not seem violent to me, though creation does
reading very very rarely does, though those are among the most wonderful moments, and i also think that reading has many modes of response, violence on the reader perhaps being the most rare, but not necessarily the most valuable
still not sure how to say any of this
i’d have to say, for myself, i do not think it is love
though i love the object outside myself, and i get physical/mental pleasure from the act of writing (not the sending out), it is not, i think, love based
the violence is on the right path, but i do not think it is a quantifiable or even active kind of violence
publishing does not seem violent to me, though creation does
reading very very rarely does, though those are among the most wonderful moments, and i also think that reading has many modes of response, violence on the reader perhaps being the most rare, but not necessarily the most valuable
still not sure how to say any of this
We are inappropriately intimate with e-mail. Some day there will be an Intervention episode about this problem and our friends and families will sit in front of the dark screen and say something like, “towards the end… it was very painful to see them hitting refresh over and over waiting for something that would never come.” And then, there would be the intervention and away we would go to a special rehabilitation facility for writers.
We are inappropriately intimate with e-mail. Some day there will be an Intervention episode about this problem and our friends and families will sit in front of the dark screen and say something like, “towards the end… it was very painful to see them hitting refresh over and over waiting for something that would never come.” And then, there would be the intervention and away we would go to a special rehabilitation facility for writers.
Music is more powerful an immediate, bodily Dionysian way (to continue with Nietzsche who was just brought up), but literature is power powerful in an Apollonian way.
i think the question of why people want to publish is an interesting one. here is my serious answer:
as much as it sometimes seems otherwise (to people that know me at least), i love people, i love the way they react and think and move and shit and fuck. i publish to effect people, to impart a little bit of my own skull into someone else, some stranger i may otherwise never meet or speak to. i publish to communicate to a larger audience than the four people that read my blog, because i find it harder and harder to say certain things in certain terms to people near me, and those certain things sometimes come out better, say, in a poem, than over the phone. these things, to me at least, are universal, and so can be communicated not necessarily only with the person from which the feelings or thoughts originally sprung. and i like all the other people in magazines communicating their own skulls through words, and i like that, even on a very minor scale, i’ve entered that conversation.
so in short, i publish because i like people and i like literature.
and cash money.
Music is more powerful an immediate, bodily Dionysian way (to continue with Nietzsche who was just brought up), but literature is power powerful in an Apollonian way.
i think the question of why people want to publish is an interesting one. here is my serious answer:
as much as it sometimes seems otherwise (to people that know me at least), i love people, i love the way they react and think and move and shit and fuck. i publish to effect people, to impart a little bit of my own skull into someone else, some stranger i may otherwise never meet or speak to. i publish to communicate to a larger audience than the four people that read my blog, because i find it harder and harder to say certain things in certain terms to people near me, and those certain things sometimes come out better, say, in a poem, than over the phone. these things, to me at least, are universal, and so can be communicated not necessarily only with the person from which the feelings or thoughts originally sprung. and i like all the other people in magazines communicating their own skulls through words, and i like that, even on a very minor scale, i’ve entered that conversation.
so in short, i publish because i like people and i like literature.
and cash money.
this is the closest statement to what i have been looking for so far.
this is the closest statement to what i have been looking for so far.
lame
lame
i can’t explain well why i write. it is probably a lot of reasons combined. i think i write because it feels good to do so. it can be gratifying the same way eating a meal or having an orgasm can be.
i also write maybe because i want to talk to people using words but not in a conversation. does that make sense?
i write because i need some way to pass my time.
i also write because i want it to be realized, i want to feel, that my existence has value and it seems to me that writing can provide that because i have assigned value to the existence of other people based on their writing.
i can’t explain well why i write. it is probably a lot of reasons combined. i think i write because it feels good to do so. it can be gratifying the same way eating a meal or having an orgasm can be.
i also write maybe because i want to talk to people using words but not in a conversation. does that make sense?
i write because i need some way to pass my time.
i also write because i want it to be realized, i want to feel, that my existence has value and it seems to me that writing can provide that because i have assigned value to the existence of other people based on their writing.
Peter, could you expand on this?
Normally I wouldn’t ask you to, because I know that the meaning is there and succinctly/beautifully put, but my brain is having trouble processing that enigma right now.
Thank you.
Isn’t everyone else doing it?
Peter, could you expand on this?
Normally I wouldn’t ask you to, because I know that the meaning is there and succinctly/beautifully put, but my brain is having trouble processing that enigma right now.
Thank you.
Isn’t everyone else doing it?
Although I think this is a worthy discussion and these are worthy questions, I wonder if people in other artistic fields have this kind of doubt/questioning? Music was brought up, do musicians debate why they want to play concerts? What is to be gained from selling CDs?
Although I think this is a worthy discussion and these are worthy questions, I wonder if people in other artistic fields have this kind of doubt/questioning? Music was brought up, do musicians debate why they want to play concerts? What is to be gained from selling CDs?
I’d hope they do.
i want to add that, if anything, it seems that writing is a form of self-violence. not quite other-violence.
Coercion and pressure are violent, precisely as you suggest, a la Zizek. And love and change and growth are all equally acceptable as metaphors for what happens, because they all have the same end result.
Maybe I chose that word incautiously, as an homage to the Futurists and the dAdAists, because I respect the seriousness and the simultaneous profound un-seriousness with which they approached their art. The Dionysiac and Apolline, united. Buster Keaton.
Regardless, however one wishes to view the change, growth, expansion (though the process also causes other connections to die, as a result of the body’s resources being diverted), I would hope that that change would be the goal of publication. It is mine. That is, of course, still ego, but I think a little more excusable than simply “getting my name out there,” which is actually quite simple to do by other methods, or of making a career out of it, which is next-to-impossible through publication in literary journals. I won’t say that any of the three is more worthwhile than the others, but I will say that, although I might daydream of one or another of the latter two, they have yet to produce anything worth sending out.
In terms of the broader why write and why publish question, I remember 7 or 8 years ago, right after undergrad, I was driving around St. Paul with a poet named Steve Burt who’s got about ten years on me, and I was rambling about Proust, who I was then reading, and also about my own writing, and what I was trying to accomplish in it, and the ways in which I was falling on my face. I’d had a couple beers, and was striving mightily to articulate my these powerful, tangled feelings inside me, and not doing such a good job, and I think I ended by saying, “I want..I want…”
But I didn’t know what to say.
And he was like: “You want to change the form.”
And I was like, yes! Yes! That’s what I want.
Question of sales and cultural relevance and so on are interesting, and have an effect on one’s life, I’m sure, but THAT is for me the main ambition and drive — to one day change the form. And writers who sell very few books, such as Mary Caponegro, probably fall into that form-changing category, as do mid-listers like Joy Williams and Vollmann, and also bestselling icons like DFW.
Why I want that, as opposed to, say, being a successful small business owner, or state senator, is probably wrapped up in ideas of what it means, for me, in the abstract, to live an interesting, fulfilling life. (The particulars, of course, don’t give a damn; I’m not going to be any happier or more “together” when I publish a book (but still, I think I am).)
I’d hope they do.
i want to add that, if anything, it seems that writing is a form of self-violence. not quite other-violence.
Coercion and pressure are violent, precisely as you suggest, a la Zizek. And love and change and growth are all equally acceptable as metaphors for what happens, because they all have the same end result.
Maybe I chose that word incautiously, as an homage to the Futurists and the dAdAists, because I respect the seriousness and the simultaneous profound un-seriousness with which they approached their art. The Dionysiac and Apolline, united. Buster Keaton.
Regardless, however one wishes to view the change, growth, expansion (though the process also causes other connections to die, as a result of the body’s resources being diverted), I would hope that that change would be the goal of publication. It is mine. That is, of course, still ego, but I think a little more excusable than simply “getting my name out there,” which is actually quite simple to do by other methods, or of making a career out of it, which is next-to-impossible through publication in literary journals. I won’t say that any of the three is more worthwhile than the others, but I will say that, although I might daydream of one or another of the latter two, they have yet to produce anything worth sending out.
In terms of the broader why write and why publish question, I remember 7 or 8 years ago, right after undergrad, I was driving around St. Paul with a poet named Steve Burt who’s got about ten years on me, and I was rambling about Proust, who I was then reading, and also about my own writing, and what I was trying to accomplish in it, and the ways in which I was falling on my face. I’d had a couple beers, and was striving mightily to articulate my these powerful, tangled feelings inside me, and not doing such a good job, and I think I ended by saying, “I want..I want…”
But I didn’t know what to say.
And he was like: “You want to change the form.”
And I was like, yes! Yes! That’s what I want.
Question of sales and cultural relevance and so on are interesting, and have an effect on one’s life, I’m sure, but THAT is for me the main ambition and drive — to one day change the form. And writers who sell very few books, such as Mary Caponegro, probably fall into that form-changing category, as do mid-listers like Joy Williams and Vollmann, and also bestselling icons like DFW.
Why I want that, as opposed to, say, being a successful small business owner, or state senator, is probably wrapped up in ideas of what it means, for me, in the abstract, to live an interesting, fulfilling life. (The particulars, of course, don’t give a damn; I’m not going to be any happier or more “together” when I publish a book (but still, I think I am).)
lincoln, can you expand on that re: apollonian way? do you mean more ‘cerebral’ or, well, i’m not sure.
ryan, that counts. good job.
yeah, i think you’re all correct, i think it really stems from how easily accessible music tends to be. which leads me to something a friend once said: if someone likes me more based on music, i don’t think they’re the type of person i’m interested in.
lincoln, can you expand on that re: apollonian way? do you mean more ‘cerebral’ or, well, i’m not sure.
ryan, that counts. good job.
yeah, i think you’re all correct, i think it really stems from how easily accessible music tends to be. which leads me to something a friend once said: if someone likes me more based on music, i don’t think they’re the type of person i’m interested in.
we all need money for food. (and hookers, since poetry isn’t getting the job done).
we all need money for food. (and hookers, since poetry isn’t getting the job done).
Yeah, I desire that too, to ‘change the form.’ I think that’s a purely aesthetic desire, and one I sideline to the self-imposed responsibilities of storytelling: Make people feel, care, feel less lonely, enlighten.
blake i responded way up above to why do i write.
why do try to get published?
i try to get published because after the act of writing, this thing exists. this physical thing. and you have to do something with it. anything you would choose is something. you can hide it, burn it, ignore it, hang it on your wall, pretend it doesnt exist, send it to your friend, put it in a random book in the library, send it to the new yorker. or whatever. but you will choose to do something. so then the question should be why do you choose what you choose? why do you choose to try and get something you wrote published rather than any of those other things? in order to decide what action to take, you would have to either act instinctively doing whatever you feel like doing, or define a goal and then choose an action based on that goal.
what is your goal in life?
or, what thing do you have in mind when you choose to do any action that you choose to do?
is it survival? at the most basic level, it is survival. but once you have your survival secured, then you move on
Yeah, I desire that too, to ‘change the form.’ I think that’s a purely aesthetic desire, and one I sideline to the self-imposed responsibilities of storytelling: Make people feel, care, feel less lonely, enlighten.
blake i responded way up above to why do i write.
why do try to get published?
i try to get published because after the act of writing, this thing exists. this physical thing. and you have to do something with it. anything you would choose is something. you can hide it, burn it, ignore it, hang it on your wall, pretend it doesnt exist, send it to your friend, put it in a random book in the library, send it to the new yorker. or whatever. but you will choose to do something. so then the question should be why do you choose what you choose? why do you choose to try and get something you wrote published rather than any of those other things? in order to decide what action to take, you would have to either act instinctively doing whatever you feel like doing, or define a goal and then choose an action based on that goal.
what is your goal in life?
or, what thing do you have in mind when you choose to do any action that you choose to do?
is it survival? at the most basic level, it is survival. but once you have your survival secured, then you move on
‘Purely aesthetic’, which is to say that it is the fetishization of ‘new’ in art, which is exciting as hell, but often pretty insular. And I’m not disparaging against it, just saying that I think the basic underpinnings of art are more important to me.
‘Purely aesthetic’, which is to say that it is the fetishization of ‘new’ in art, which is exciting as hell, but often pretty insular. And I’m not disparaging against it, just saying that I think the basic underpinnings of art are more important to me.
I agree. Thanks so much for following this tangent with me.
I agree. Thanks so much for following this tangent with me.
digging ditches is pretty challenging. serious. i would never want that job again.
digging ditches is pretty challenging. serious. i would never want that job again.
wait, i don’t know now about what i said above
wait, i don’t know now about what i said above
right now i feel like i’m in middle school and i have to come up with an answer that will make me liked and popular, essentially feeling loved
and i guess this is why i try to get published, for love
right now i feel like i’m in middle school and i have to come up with an answer that will make me liked and popular, essentially feeling loved
and i guess this is why i try to get published, for love
Sorry. What I meant: Intellectually challenging. Yeah, I’ve digged ditches/built fences/plowed land, and it’s some of the most physically challenging/exhausting activity I’ve felt.
Sorry. What I meant: Intellectually challenging. Yeah, I’ve digged ditches/built fences/plowed land, and it’s some of the most physically challenging/exhausting activity I’ve felt.
i just want to feel loved
i just want to feel loved
I never thought of it as violence but it kind of makes sense. I felt violently acted upon reading one of your stories Blake. I haven’t forgotten that feeling, I think I was even slightly nauseous. It was rad and if I can do that to someone else, fuck. I guess that is ego too but who cares. Okay, I’ll stop being yucky fangirl now.
For me, I can’t speak nearly as well as I write. And I don’t write nearly as well as I’d like, so communication is important, necessary. Publishing (targeted) may be one way to sate that need. I’m not a storyteller so immortality isn’t one of my concerns. I guess ego-gratifying is.
Yeah and I’d like to get laid like pr (and on the flip, good writing has incited me to put out in the past so …)
Lots of goodness here today.
I never thought of it as violence but it kind of makes sense. I felt violently acted upon reading one of your stories Blake. I haven’t forgotten that feeling, I think I was even slightly nauseous. It was rad and if I can do that to someone else, fuck. I guess that is ego too but who cares. Okay, I’ll stop being yucky fangirl now.
For me, I can’t speak nearly as well as I write. And I don’t write nearly as well as I’d like, so communication is important, necessary. Publishing (targeted) may be one way to sate that need. I’m not a storyteller so immortality isn’t one of my concerns. I guess ego-gratifying is.
Yeah and I’d like to get laid like pr (and on the flip, good writing has incited me to put out in the past so …)
Lots of goodness here today.
I think I had clearer reasons when I was seventeen and published my first fiction stuff. Nowadays there’s no telling why I actually do it. I think any reason I give will make me feel like a choad. Further, I don’t believe half of the crap I’m reading in this thread. I think Butler is trying to deconstruct the “scene” in a sense, and he’s failing miserably. I do it because I can and because I like to. I don’t take it as seriously as I used to. I still do it the best I can manage. That’s all I have.
I think I had clearer reasons when I was seventeen and published my first fiction stuff. Nowadays there’s no telling why I actually do it. I think any reason I give will make me feel like a choad. Further, I don’t believe half of the crap I’m reading in this thread. I think Butler is trying to deconstruct the “scene” in a sense, and he’s failing miserably. I do it because I can and because I like to. I don’t take it as seriously as I used to. I still do it the best I can manage. That’s all I have.
“I like knowing my work is being read even if it is being read by like 13 people.”
I know that feeling.
“I like knowing my work is being read even if it is being read by like 13 people.”
I know that feeling.
I always feel like online is a better bulwark against death than print magazines. magazines rot, get tossed in the trash, line birdcages. Online could (*could*) exist forever.
I always feel like online is a better bulwark against death than print magazines. magazines rot, get tossed in the trash, line birdcages. Online could (*could*) exist forever.
i think writing’s a way to keep up the thread of my best self. i don’t want to publish yet but when i do i think it will be to make something larger than myself to be beholden to. there are certain venues where once you publish in them your voice is stamped out bigger than your person and you are beholden to it. those are the ones that would change my life. new yorker, atlantic, harper’s, usual suspects. i think having your work out there sealed and certified in that way would be an obligation to uphold your best self as conceived in that work. your own work becomes an “influence” on you. it could be a help and a comfort, like having an expectant teacher. but i don’t feel like i have tight enough control over my work yet to give myself up to it in that way. maybe it’s different for others, i’ve only just started writing.
i think writing’s a way to keep up the thread of my best self. i don’t want to publish yet but when i do i think it will be to make something larger than myself to be beholden to. there are certain venues where once you publish in them your voice is stamped out bigger than your person and you are beholden to it. those are the ones that would change my life. new yorker, atlantic, harper’s, usual suspects. i think having your work out there sealed and certified in that way would be an obligation to uphold your best self as conceived in that work. your own work becomes an “influence” on you. it could be a help and a comfort, like having an expectant teacher. but i don’t feel like i have tight enough control over my work yet to give myself up to it in that way. maybe it’s different for others, i’ve only just started writing.
nintendo power
women’s home journal
cricket
nintendo power
women’s home journal
cricket
so as i interpret this you write out of necessity, which is what shitting is, a function of the body to remove poisonous waste, and you seek to be published because it is a requirement of society, society dictates “you must be dressed”, i mean obviously if you were some indian in the rain forest and only wearing a gourd around your dick that would also be dictated as “dress” and a construct of society.
okay i agree with the second part i guess but the first doesn’t make sense. your body must shit or you’ll die at some point. not writing won’t kill you.
so as i interpret this you write out of necessity, which is what shitting is, a function of the body to remove poisonous waste, and you seek to be published because it is a requirement of society, society dictates “you must be dressed”, i mean obviously if you were some indian in the rain forest and only wearing a gourd around your dick that would also be dictated as “dress” and a construct of society.
okay i agree with the second part i guess but the first doesn’t make sense. your body must shit or you’ll die at some point. not writing won’t kill you.
Wizard trumps nintendo power i think
Wizard trumps nintendo power i think
oh shit! that would be a killer Intervention episode. I could be on that show now. The “refresh” word would get a laugh every time it’s uttered b/c of the number of times we hit it, hoping for something…
oh shit! that would be a killer Intervention episode. I could be on that show now. The “refresh” word would get a laugh every time it’s uttered b/c of the number of times we hit it, hoping for something…
for realz!
for realz!
ha! this cracked me up.
ha! this cracked me up.
I write because I read. There are multiple reasons behind this, but I can say that I would certainly have no interest in writing if I had not read anything. How was I able to read certain work? It was published. It’s pretty simple in that regard.
It gets more complex, I suppose, when you begin to consider the enjoyment I get out of reading. If I didn’t like reading, I wouldn’t do it and thus would not write. What do I like about reading? Many things, but primarily the times when I’m reading a work and a passage says something about life that I don’t really know and understand in the forefront of my brain but only have some sort of deep feeling in my gut about, and thus illuminates said concept, making it clearer and completely understandable. It’s that moment when you’re reading and thinking, ‘Man, they sure know what they’re talking about’ and also thinking ‘This makes so much sense that I feel like I thought this before they did’ but really know that you didn’t think it in such terms as it was written in and you only had some sort of vague notion of.
That is what makes me write: to give other people that ‘feeling’. How would they get this feeling? By reading my work, which, probably, has to have been published. It’s just a giant circle to me, really: read, enjoyment/illumination, write, publish, read, etc. Certainly there are other ways for people to come across one’s work, but at this point it seems as if publishing in some type of magazine or book can reach the greatest audience.
There’s also that element of self-understanding and getting that feeling of ‘illumination’ from your own work. That’s always a great feeling, too. Don’t know if it’s >, =, <, or even comparable to the feeling one gets from someone else’s work, but still feels good.
I write because I read. There are multiple reasons behind this, but I can say that I would certainly have no interest in writing if I had not read anything. How was I able to read certain work? It was published. It’s pretty simple in that regard.
It gets more complex, I suppose, when you begin to consider the enjoyment I get out of reading. If I didn’t like reading, I wouldn’t do it and thus would not write. What do I like about reading? Many things, but primarily the times when I’m reading a work and a passage says something about life that I don’t really know and understand in the forefront of my brain but only have some sort of deep feeling in my gut about, and thus illuminates said concept, making it clearer and completely understandable. It’s that moment when you’re reading and thinking, ‘Man, they sure know what they’re talking about’ and also thinking ‘This makes so much sense that I feel like I thought this before they did’ but really know that you didn’t think it in such terms as it was written in and you only had some sort of vague notion of.
That is what makes me write: to give other people that ‘feeling’. How would they get this feeling? By reading my work, which, probably, has to have been published. It’s just a giant circle to me, really: read, enjoyment/illumination, write, publish, read, etc. Certainly there are other ways for people to come across one’s work, but at this point it seems as if publishing in some type of magazine or book can reach the greatest audience.
There’s also that element of self-understanding and getting that feeling of ‘illumination’ from your own work. That’s always a great feeling, too. Don’t know if it’s >, =, <, or even comparable to the feeling one gets from someone else’s work, but still feels good.
Mad Magazine
Cracked
Northwest Yachting Magazine
Mad Magazine
Cracked
Northwest Yachting Magazine
Yikes, Paul. That seems harsh; to disregard ‘half of the crap’. I think most people are trying to figure it out themselves as they talk. Is that a bad thing? Searching for meaning?
Yikes, Paul. That seems harsh; to disregard ‘half of the crap’. I think most people are trying to figure it out themselves as they talk. Is that a bad thing? Searching for meaning?
[…] an interesting discussion going on over at HTML Giant about why people choose to write and […]
i think i write because i think narratively and because i like language and because i couldn’t make it as a musician and because i don’t feel comfortable around golfers and because i was never an athlete and because books smell beautiful to me and because i see a book and i want to open it and because there’s some magic to the history of literature and because i’m lonely, i’m alone, and i don’t feel like i fit at the office and that i would rather exist in the ether of fiction, and i send out so that others might think ‘yes, yes’ and then i’d feel like i fit into the thing better, whatever the thing may be, and that’s the tough thing about this question, because it’s not the publication that publishes you that makes the difference, so much as it is the love you get from the publication. i would much rather get a gushing acceptance letter from a small journal then a standard acceptance from a recognizable one. maybe. no. i don’t agree. it would depend. but i do think that working toward a scene the–ex-pats the beats–writing to find a scene for my aesthetics and philosophies that is important somehow. do i write for community? do i write to belong? no, because i don’t care. i think i write because i can’t juggle, and because there’s a limit to how many times you can masturbate in a day.
how many times?
How can you not be a storyteller?
You are if you live. You are if you tell stories, or speak, or move.
i think i write because i think narratively and because i like language and because i couldn’t make it as a musician and because i don’t feel comfortable around golfers and because i was never an athlete and because books smell beautiful to me and because i see a book and i want to open it and because there’s some magic to the history of literature and because i’m lonely, i’m alone, and i don’t feel like i fit at the office and that i would rather exist in the ether of fiction, and i send out so that others might think ‘yes, yes’ and then i’d feel like i fit into the thing better, whatever the thing may be, and that’s the tough thing about this question, because it’s not the publication that publishes you that makes the difference, so much as it is the love you get from the publication. i would much rather get a gushing acceptance letter from a small journal then a standard acceptance from a recognizable one. maybe. no. i don’t agree. it would depend. but i do think that working toward a scene the–ex-pats the beats–writing to find a scene for my aesthetics and philosophies that is important somehow. do i write for community? do i write to belong? no, because i don’t care. i think i write because i can’t juggle, and because there’s a limit to how many times you can masturbate in a day.
how many times?
How can you not be a storyteller?
You are if you live. You are if you tell stories, or speak, or move.
i agree with and am a mixture of what barry, darby and the davids said.
for creating, i would say 40% feeble attempt at immortality, however temporary and pointless/fear of nonexistence/desire for transcendental primordial union, 40% craving for basic human-to-human understanding/self-comforting/quelling loneliness/fishing for granfalloons, 20% health concern/expectorating existential angst to avoid becoming a danger to oneself or vomiting
for publishing, 5% it is the only way to be read because i don’t share what i write with people immediately around me, 40% it is one way to exist inside other people’s heads, 10% if people keep words in their heads, make dialogue with other people and pass the dialogue into other people’s heads then that will last longer than individual heads, some internet domains and some paper but not always, 45% if i am honest i don’t care whether something is published in tin house, on a blog or on a lamp post because if even one person reads it and can even vaguely relate to one line then there are no outstanding wants
i need to go to the bank now
i agree with and am a mixture of what barry, darby and the davids said.
for creating, i would say 40% feeble attempt at immortality, however temporary and pointless/fear of nonexistence/desire for transcendental primordial union, 40% craving for basic human-to-human understanding/self-comforting/quelling loneliness/fishing for granfalloons, 20% health concern/expectorating existential angst to avoid becoming a danger to oneself or vomiting
for publishing, 5% it is the only way to be read because i don’t share what i write with people immediately around me, 40% it is one way to exist inside other people’s heads, 10% if people keep words in their heads, make dialogue with other people and pass the dialogue into other people’s heads then that will last longer than individual heads, some internet domains and some paper but not always, 45% if i am honest i don’t care whether something is published in tin house, on a blog or on a lamp post because if even one person reads it and can even vaguely relate to one line then there are no outstanding wants
i need to go to the bank now
yes yes
also i wonder what percentage of writers is made up of failed musicians. someone should conduct a poll.
yes yes
also i wonder what percentage of writers is made up of failed musicians. someone should conduct a poll.
High Times
High Times
drew, not to speak on behalf of lincoln, but i think the distinction he is making is something along the lines of: music is something that can be experienced unmediated, almost a bodily sensation in that 1) we are bodily composed of biological rhythms and therefore grasp music without first having to make sense of it, and 2) music is a non-representational and therefore direct experience of sound. on the other hand, there is no such immediate recognition when confronted with symbols, i.e. language. the symbols need to be decoded, i.e. the meaning of the symbols (and any consequential recognition or bodily sensations that follow) are first mediated and made possible by the faculty of reason.
the former more easily allows for a state of rapture or ecstasy in the dissolution of time-awareness, exactly by being swept up in the temporal flow of varying and enveloping sound waves: a passive possession. the dionysian power referred to. whereas, reading always requires an active mental engagement. and yet, since language is constituted of concepts, which are representational, those very concepts have the capacity to rearrange our ego-structure (the apollonian power) since much of that structure is language based and determines the manner by which we interpret most sensory input and give form to the amorous mass of flux coming at us. essentially we inhabit a kaleidoscope, but have simply become acclimated to the brightly-colored and shifting patterns. until the patterns become dull and we wake up cradling our head on the edge of the bed having to confront the horror of remembering each and every morning who we are. neither apollo nor dionysus. just bob.
drew, not to speak on behalf of lincoln, but i think the distinction he is making is something along the lines of: music is something that can be experienced unmediated, almost a bodily sensation in that 1) we are bodily composed of biological rhythms and therefore grasp music without first having to make sense of it, and 2) music is a non-representational and therefore direct experience of sound. on the other hand, there is no such immediate recognition when confronted with symbols, i.e. language. the symbols need to be decoded, i.e. the meaning of the symbols (and any consequential recognition or bodily sensations that follow) are first mediated and made possible by the faculty of reason.
the former more easily allows for a state of rapture or ecstasy in the dissolution of time-awareness, exactly by being swept up in the temporal flow of varying and enveloping sound waves: a passive possession. the dionysian power referred to. whereas, reading always requires an active mental engagement. and yet, since language is constituted of concepts, which are representational, those very concepts have the capacity to rearrange our ego-structure (the apollonian power) since much of that structure is language based and determines the manner by which we interpret most sensory input and give form to the amorous mass of flux coming at us. essentially we inhabit a kaleidoscope, but have simply become acclimated to the brightly-colored and shifting patterns. until the patterns become dull and we wake up cradling our head on the edge of the bed having to confront the horror of remembering each and every morning who we are. neither apollo nor dionysus. just bob.
also i read for the same reasons i listen to music. i go actively seeking that ‘feeling’. i want to erupt in goosebumps. it borders on orgasmic.
also i read for the same reasons i listen to music. i go actively seeking that ‘feeling’. i want to erupt in goosebumps. it borders on orgasmic.
Reading a story by my partner was what made me want to know her better, to know the kind of mind behind those words.
Reading a story by my partner was what made me want to know her better, to know the kind of mind behind those words.
I agree with all of what you just said here.
For whatever reason, it reminded me of something I’ve thought odd for a few years now, since an Almond reading, of all things. As writers, we fit into a long, long tradition of story-telling, at least insofar as we create or relay stories. But the loneliness of it is a much newer thing in man’s history, really only since the invention of the printing press. Prior to that, story-telling was a highly social act, one done almost exclusively orally. “Writers,” prior to print, were performers as much as they were creators. The performative/social aspect of story-telling is almost gone from what we think of as a “writer” now, and we’re left with this intensely solitary act.
I agree with all of what you just said here.
For whatever reason, it reminded me of something I’ve thought odd for a few years now, since an Almond reading, of all things. As writers, we fit into a long, long tradition of story-telling, at least insofar as we create or relay stories. But the loneliness of it is a much newer thing in man’s history, really only since the invention of the printing press. Prior to that, story-telling was a highly social act, one done almost exclusively orally. “Writers,” prior to print, were performers as much as they were creators. The performative/social aspect of story-telling is almost gone from what we think of as a “writer” now, and we’re left with this intensely solitary act.
Damned capitalism.
Sort of kidding. Sort of.
The ‘cult of the individual’ is making us so much more alone. That, and the ability to transmit art while sitting in your room, or in a studio, etc.
I believe that it’ll all come around. I believe that life is cyclical.
Damned capitalism.
Sort of kidding. Sort of.
The ‘cult of the individual’ is making us so much more alone. That, and the ability to transmit art while sitting in your room, or in a studio, etc.
I believe that it’ll all come around. I believe that life is cyclical.
i like hearing stuff like that.
i like hearing stuff like that.
This is a really interesting discussion that’s making me actually comment here for the first time after reading htmlgiant for a long time.
I was just trying to explain the whole “why write” thing to someone the other day, and having a hard time coming up with anything non-cheesy sounding. It’s a really damn near impossible thing to articulate. It sounds so lame to say “I write because I have to!” but that’s really kind of it. I write because for whatever reason, I get ideas for things, and if I don’t write them down, I am cranky and irritable until I do have a chance to write them down. It was never something I decided to do, like, hey, I think I’ll take up knitting. It’s just sort of involuntarily there.
The question of “why publish” gets more at actual goals with writing, though, which is different, and I think for me has to do with all sorts of things that I don’t really consciously think about. Part of it is the validation, I guess. Part of it is being a reader, and loving the written word, and thinking stories are important, and knowing that experience of being moved and shocked and devastated and overjoyed by things I’ve read, and thinking the most amazing thing would be able to have even just a tiny bit of that impact on other people. Which again sounds kind of cheesy. But it’s a way of participating in the world, in some way. I don’t have any lofty notions of anything I write ever changing the world, or being remembered 200 years from now, or anything like that. But if some of what I write can go out there and become kind of a part of this collective world of the written word, then why not be a part of that?
This is a really interesting discussion that’s making me actually comment here for the first time after reading htmlgiant for a long time.
I was just trying to explain the whole “why write” thing to someone the other day, and having a hard time coming up with anything non-cheesy sounding. It’s a really damn near impossible thing to articulate. It sounds so lame to say “I write because I have to!” but that’s really kind of it. I write because for whatever reason, I get ideas for things, and if I don’t write them down, I am cranky and irritable until I do have a chance to write them down. It was never something I decided to do, like, hey, I think I’ll take up knitting. It’s just sort of involuntarily there.
The question of “why publish” gets more at actual goals with writing, though, which is different, and I think for me has to do with all sorts of things that I don’t really consciously think about. Part of it is the validation, I guess. Part of it is being a reader, and loving the written word, and thinking stories are important, and knowing that experience of being moved and shocked and devastated and overjoyed by things I’ve read, and thinking the most amazing thing would be able to have even just a tiny bit of that impact on other people. Which again sounds kind of cheesy. But it’s a way of participating in the world, in some way. I don’t have any lofty notions of anything I write ever changing the world, or being remembered 200 years from now, or anything like that. But if some of what I write can go out there and become kind of a part of this collective world of the written word, then why not be a part of that?
If you’re writing (or painting or singing or whatever you’re doing), you’re designing something for someone else to receive. If that doesn’t happen, the activity isn’t complete. So it’s natural for a writer to try to find an audience, and publication is a step toward that.
Why people want to be artists is a harder question. Some kind of ego thing, obviously. But I do think any dreams of fame-money-sex are secondary to that of simply being read.
If you’re writing (or painting or singing or whatever you’re doing), you’re designing something for someone else to receive. If that doesn’t happen, the activity isn’t complete. So it’s natural for a writer to try to find an audience, and publication is a step toward that.
Why people want to be artists is a harder question. Some kind of ego thing, obviously. But I do think any dreams of fame-money-sex are secondary to that of simply being read.
HTMLGIANT is fun again.
HTMLGIANT is fun again.
Better late:
Guns and Ammo
Hustler
Mcsweeney’s
Better late:
Guns and Ammo
Hustler
Mcsweeney’s
“also i wonder what percentage of writers is made up of failed musicians. someone should conduct a poll.”
i think you got it twisted. i think the larger number is failed writers who became musicians.
regarding the second part of the question… why publish… i think everything everyone said is interesting, but after awhile it sounds like jcwecf wxsx cwecvewygfoeduldjxn qsidhqwdugef c sqxqwihdqiud boogely boogely nigga bang da juice….
i publish because i want people to read what i wrote…. thats why we all submit our shit for publication.
i won a coupon for free big macs for a year, it began june 1st. today i have eaten a big mac for 10 consecutive days. i hope i can go the distance and bang out all 365. god bless america.
“also i wonder what percentage of writers is made up of failed musicians. someone should conduct a poll.”
i think you got it twisted. i think the larger number is failed writers who became musicians.
regarding the second part of the question… why publish… i think everything everyone said is interesting, but after awhile it sounds like jcwecf wxsx cwecvewygfoeduldjxn qsidhqwdugef c sqxqwihdqiud boogely boogely nigga bang da juice….
i publish because i want people to read what i wrote…. thats why we all submit our shit for publication.
i won a coupon for free big macs for a year, it began june 1st. today i have eaten a big mac for 10 consecutive days. i hope i can go the distance and bang out all 365. god bless america.
I think I publish, or try to, because the people I read as a kid and idolized did it, and I used to want to be like them, and now I am not sure what else I want, outside love, which I have. It’s a goal I’ve always had. It gives me something to work toward the way a MaGuffin gives a character something to fight for, and that organizing principle keeps me from killing myself.
And it gives me an excuse to write, which also helps me not kill myself.
I think I publish, or try to, because the people I read as a kid and idolized did it, and I used to want to be like them, and now I am not sure what else I want, outside love, which I have. It’s a goal I’ve always had. It gives me something to work toward the way a MaGuffin gives a character something to fight for, and that organizing principle keeps me from killing myself.
And it gives me an excuse to write, which also helps me not kill myself.
I write because my heart is bleeding & I need words to be a mop that becomes a janitor. Note that the rules about making nouns feminine only apply to some nouns that refer to people and animals. They do not apply to objects. I write because I do not want to be closer to any human just closer to words. Publication is my most sincere attempt at using other people’s psyches to be even closer to words. My ranking of such an exploitation is:
1. Dalkey Archive
2. Noon
3. Poetry
I write because my heart is bleeding & I need words to be a mop that becomes a janitor. Note that the rules about making nouns feminine only apply to some nouns that refer to people and animals. They do not apply to objects. I write because I do not want to be closer to any human just closer to words. Publication is my most sincere attempt at using other people’s psyches to be even closer to words. My ranking of such an exploitation is:
1. Dalkey Archive
2. Noon
3. Poetry
wizard trumps.
wizard trumps.
…I would have to say Poetry, because it would mean that I was suddenly sixty-five and it would be pretty life-changing for me to realize that.
…I would have to say Poetry, because it would mean that I was suddenly sixty-five and it would be pretty life-changing for me to realize that.
actually your order does make more sense, barry. when i wrote it i didn’t mean to imply writing as being a result of being a failed musician, or the latter as being a cause. i wasn’t thinking of them as mutually exclusive. i came to words and decided on words long before i came to music. it just happens that i make music but don’t like any of it enough to pursue it and was sort of wondering aloud whether this was true for anyone else. coupons are the salt of the earth.
actually your order does make more sense, barry. when i wrote it i didn’t mean to imply writing as being a result of being a failed musician, or the latter as being a cause. i wasn’t thinking of them as mutually exclusive. i came to words and decided on words long before i came to music. it just happens that i make music but don’t like any of it enough to pursue it and was sort of wondering aloud whether this was true for anyone else. coupons are the salt of the earth.
Fair point, Ken Baumann. I think I was thinking of storytelling and immortality in terms of universal stories passed down traditionally like through the ages for some larger human purpose. That’s too big, feels too abstract, maybe impossible. This wasn’t clear in my original comment, I know. And now you are probably sleeping. Damn.
Fair point, Ken Baumann. I think I was thinking of storytelling and immortality in terms of universal stories passed down traditionally like through the ages for some larger human purpose. That’s too big, feels too abstract, maybe impossible. This wasn’t clear in my original comment, I know. And now you are probably sleeping. Damn.
the whole idea of writing ‘voice.’ like it’s probably separate from one’s speaking voice, or at least not identical but both are probably valid. and people sometimes speak because they have things to say. (and sometimes it’s white noise.) so, for me, i guess i write for that reason too. you wouldn’t speak only to yourself ever. you’d go nuts, and it’d feel stunted. i think, for me, that’s partly why i write, and partly why i sometimes put my writing out there. like a word overflow. sometimes, when i’ve finished speaking, i still feel like i have things left to say. and writing feels like it comes from a different, maybe more visceral place.
plus, when you’re living experiences or speaking stuff aloud, it tends to be messy, imprecise. i think writing can be a process of working through things and imposing some kind of order upon them. (which is maybe related to why some people favour beginnings, middles and ends.)
the whole idea of writing ‘voice.’ like it’s probably separate from one’s speaking voice, or at least not identical but both are probably valid. and people sometimes speak because they have things to say. (and sometimes it’s white noise.) so, for me, i guess i write for that reason too. you wouldn’t speak only to yourself ever. you’d go nuts, and it’d feel stunted. i think, for me, that’s partly why i write, and partly why i sometimes put my writing out there. like a word overflow. sometimes, when i’ve finished speaking, i still feel like i have things left to say. and writing feels like it comes from a different, maybe more visceral place.
plus, when you’re living experiences or speaking stuff aloud, it tends to be messy, imprecise. i think writing can be a process of working through things and imposing some kind of order upon them. (which is maybe related to why some people favour beginnings, middles and ends.)
This is fucking great.
This is fucking great.
thank you
thank you
i was pretty sure my life would change when i got poems published in nyq… i have a few forthcoming from that magazine now and i feel just about the same level of depression and uselessness that i always have
i was pretty sure my life would change when i got poems published in nyq… i have a few forthcoming from that magazine now and i feel just about the same level of depression and uselessness that i always have
this is a familiar feeling i think thomas.
what does realizing that do to your writing
this is a familiar feeling i think thomas.
what does realizing that do to your writing
i think it’s healthy to submit to Poetry once a year just to check if your birthday is accurate.
i think it’s healthy to submit to Poetry once a year just to check if your birthday is accurate.
“Barry, Darby and the Davids” sounds like a good title for a TV sitcom.
“Barry, Darby and the Davids” sounds like a good title for a TV sitcom.
TPL – thanks for sharing that. For whatever reason it reminded me of my first acceptance back in ’02. I emailed my brother who emailed me right back to say he was about to jump out of his chair to do a celebratory jig (he wasn’t being sarcastic, really). I was pumped up for about a week or so. Recently (the past few months) I’ve gotten into some journals that I respect/follow/read all the time (many of whose editors had rejected a number of my previous submissions) and I was excited for a few minutes but then quickly felt depressed/useless again about my writing.
BB – to answer your question to TPL … for me, I don’t know what that this realization does to my writing. In some ways I think the writing I did back in 02-03 – when I was sure I’d write for the rest of my life and would “make a mark” – is more important/”better” than the stuff I churn out now. Yeah, it might not have been as polished but I was taking on issues like Stanley Milgram’s obedience to authority experiments and Dachau (things that had bothered me/interested me for years). Perhaps I was aiming too high but now I pump out short little pieces that might read a bit more cleanly but don’t (to me) have the same amount gravitas (however limited it may be).
Also, I often feel like shit because I’m such a bad speaker and my stuttering issues fuck me over royally, again and again. Sometimes saying certain words is necessary and if I avoid them I feel like a coward and then have even more trouble saying them next time I have to say them. Of course, if I try to “be brave” and say them “now” and block on them and get embarrassed/humiliated…the words are even harder to say the next time too. So, Catch 22 and all that. I do like to write about things like that in my stories and that can provide a little comfort. But, on the other hand, writing about stuttering makes me think about it too much and then I’m remembering all the horrifying experiences I’ve undergone throughout the years (some of which I’d blocked out) because of it and that of course is icing/gravy/beautiful.
TPL – thanks for sharing that. For whatever reason it reminded me of my first acceptance back in ’02. I emailed my brother who emailed me right back to say he was about to jump out of his chair to do a celebratory jig (he wasn’t being sarcastic, really). I was pumped up for about a week or so. Recently (the past few months) I’ve gotten into some journals that I respect/follow/read all the time (many of whose editors had rejected a number of my previous submissions) and I was excited for a few minutes but then quickly felt depressed/useless again about my writing.
BB – to answer your question to TPL … for me, I don’t know what that this realization does to my writing. In some ways I think the writing I did back in 02-03 – when I was sure I’d write for the rest of my life and would “make a mark” – is more important/”better” than the stuff I churn out now. Yeah, it might not have been as polished but I was taking on issues like Stanley Milgram’s obedience to authority experiments and Dachau (things that had bothered me/interested me for years). Perhaps I was aiming too high but now I pump out short little pieces that might read a bit more cleanly but don’t (to me) have the same amount gravitas (however limited it may be).
Also, I often feel like shit because I’m such a bad speaker and my stuttering issues fuck me over royally, again and again. Sometimes saying certain words is necessary and if I avoid them I feel like a coward and then have even more trouble saying them next time I have to say them. Of course, if I try to “be brave” and say them “now” and block on them and get embarrassed/humiliated…the words are even harder to say the next time too. So, Catch 22 and all that. I do like to write about things like that in my stories and that can provide a little comfort. But, on the other hand, writing about stuttering makes me think about it too much and then I’m remembering all the horrifying experiences I’ve undergone throughout the years (some of which I’d blocked out) because of it and that of course is icing/gravy/beautiful.
i think painters probably fall in line with writers. i have no clue why painters paint so i cannot speak on why they do it but they do go it alone.
i think painters probably fall in line with writers. i have no clue why painters paint so i cannot speak on why they do it but they do go it alone.
really ken?
cyclical yes i to some degree but if you believe in a beginning then you must believe in an end.
only something unborn doesn’t die.
really ken?
cyclical yes i to some degree but if you believe in a beginning then you must believe in an end.
only something unborn doesn’t die.
i think this is a learning process. it is the logical progression.
why do you think so many successful writers have committed suicide?
publishing credits doesn’t mean shit. it has nothing to do with the craft of writing.
when the writing stops and you are left only with your inner dialogue is the day you should fear.
i think this is a learning process. it is the logical progression.
why do you think so many successful writers have committed suicide?
publishing credits doesn’t mean shit. it has nothing to do with the craft of writing.
when the writing stops and you are left only with your inner dialogue is the day you should fear.
“when the writing stops and you are left only with your inner dialogue is the day you should fear.”
Yeah, I hear you Jereme. I also hear PR’s comment that writing may heighten/”worsen” certain parts of her (I’m paraphrasing, poorly). I’m conflicted. I feel sick sometimes when I don’t write. Other times I feel much more normal, able to focus on other things, when I’m not spinning my wheels about a story.
In any event, I’m just navel gazing here. I am thankful this conversation got started. I don’t know shit about shit, as Tim O’ would say.
“when the writing stops and you are left only with your inner dialogue is the day you should fear.”
Yeah, I hear you Jereme. I also hear PR’s comment that writing may heighten/”worsen” certain parts of her (I’m paraphrasing, poorly). I’m conflicted. I feel sick sometimes when I don’t write. Other times I feel much more normal, able to focus on other things, when I’m not spinning my wheels about a story.
In any event, I’m just navel gazing here. I am thankful this conversation got started. I don’t know shit about shit, as Tim O’ would say.
I’m in, though I suspect getting Darby and Barry to sign up may not be as easy. WB would love it.
I’m in, though I suspect getting Darby and Barry to sign up may not be as easy. WB would love it.
I disagree. I reached that point also I think, or I just kind of understood from reading enough interviews of previously published people that it was inevitable, but I wish people wouldn’t just sit down and be depressed about it. That’s pussy. When publication is not the primary drive, there’s a creative freedom that rises from ashes that has less to do with your previous notion of recognition and and more to do with an internal drive to do something different.
I disagree. I reached that point also I think, or I just kind of understood from reading enough interviews of previously published people that it was inevitable, but I wish people wouldn’t just sit down and be depressed about it. That’s pussy. When publication is not the primary drive, there’s a creative freedom that rises from ashes that has less to do with your previous notion of recognition and and more to do with an internal drive to do something different.
I won’t/can’t speak for TPL but I think he’s saying that he just feels depressed/useless, irrespective of getting published (In other words he’s a depressed kind of guy and thus the publishing thing doesn’t change that …even if it did for a short time after getting into a certain journal). There have been periods where getting published has encouraged me to write more and to be a bit more disciplined about writing. But, yeah, that can work both ways.
I think it’s completely natural to be really excited about getting published initially and less so as you get published more. It’s like anything else…you need more and more of a fix/hit to reach a high.
I agree with you and Jereme that writing and publication are separate.
I won’t/can’t speak for TPL but I think he’s saying that he just feels depressed/useless, irrespective of getting published (In other words he’s a depressed kind of guy and thus the publishing thing doesn’t change that …even if it did for a short time after getting into a certain journal). There have been periods where getting published has encouraged me to write more and to be a bit more disciplined about writing. But, yeah, that can work both ways.
I think it’s completely natural to be really excited about getting published initially and less so as you get published more. It’s like anything else…you need more and more of a fix/hit to reach a high.
I agree with you and Jereme that writing and publication are separate.
what happens when the drive stops darby?
i’m not sure really
i think if anything it makes me want to write better.
when i first began writing i was writing to get published
and now that i’ve been published i think im writing to better myself–to make myself feel like a better writer–by my own personal affirmation which i will probably never really give myself so it’s a sort of circle which i feel benefits me as a poet
if that makes sense… i don’t know
on another note, 7 of my poems were published just now, literally within the last hour and i feel very neutral about this.
Also, I’m 6’3″ with a violent streak so I’d be careful about throwing words out there like pussy. (shout to Lee and Barry here).
what happens when the drive stops darby?
i’m not sure really
i think if anything it makes me want to write better.
when i first began writing i was writing to get published
and now that i’ve been published i think im writing to better myself–to make myself feel like a better writer–by my own personal affirmation which i will probably never really give myself so it’s a sort of circle which i feel benefits me as a poet
if that makes sense… i don’t know
on another note, 7 of my poems were published just now, literally within the last hour and i feel very neutral about this.
Also, I’m 6’3″ with a violent streak so I’d be careful about throwing words out there like pussy. (shout to Lee and Barry here).
david i think darby was saying it was cowardly. i don’t think it is a personal attack. i think darby is saying that publication is not a primary purpose of writing.
unfetter yourself from the bullshit and just do the fucking love dance.
david i think darby was saying it was cowardly. i don’t think it is a personal attack. i think darby is saying that publication is not a primary purpose of writing.
unfetter yourself from the bullshit and just do the fucking love dance.
sorry for saying pussy
when the drive stops, you move on, you become a painter or something. but don’t let the meaninglessness of publication be the thing that stops you, is all I’m saying. That’s sad if people quit writing because of that. People should have other drives that are as or more powerful than publication.
sorry for saying pussy
when the drive stops, you move on, you become a painter or something. but don’t let the meaninglessness of publication be the thing that stops you, is all I’m saying. That’s sad if people quit writing because of that. People should have other drives that are as or more powerful than publication.
thanks for the psych analysis
know any therapists i could see about this?
thanks for the psych analysis
know any therapists i could see about this?
I’m like a scientologist when it comes to seeing shrinks, man, sorry.
and, as i said, i don’t know shit about shit so i probably completely misunderstood/misrepresented what you said.
KUDOS re 7 poems in one hour. That’s a veritable bukkake of publications. I’m terrible at metaphors/similes but you know what I’m saying.
I’m like a scientologist when it comes to seeing shrinks, man, sorry.
and, as i said, i don’t know shit about shit so i probably completely misunderstood/misrepresented what you said.
KUDOS re 7 poems in one hour. That’s a veritable bukkake of publications. I’m terrible at metaphors/similes but you know what I’m saying.
darby,
no, i meant what happens when the drive to write stops. the question had nothing to do with publication.
what happens when one day you just can’t do it any more.
every person will be posed a question “is this it, is this all”
what happens when you say yes, this is it. there is nothing more. i cannot write any more.
personally, i think this question is contributes to the numerous suicides of writers at late stages of their careers.
they were left with the madness in their head, or whatever you want to call it, and no longer had a way to cope.
it is a lonely path.
ha, i’m just kidding about the violent thing — that was a line from an HG “dustup” a few months ago. fwiw, i am a fucking pussy who happens to only be 6’2″ so whatevs.
i agree darby about moving on when the drive stops. i’m trying to write for better reasons than seeing erlewine on duotrope and posting links on facebook abut my stories. such a tool i am and i say that with some self-love (not the nasty kind, just the acceptance kind)
darby,
no, i meant what happens when the drive to write stops. the question had nothing to do with publication.
what happens when one day you just can’t do it any more.
every person will be posed a question “is this it, is this all”
what happens when you say yes, this is it. there is nothing more. i cannot write any more.
personally, i think this question is contributes to the numerous suicides of writers at late stages of their careers.
they were left with the madness in their head, or whatever you want to call it, and no longer had a way to cope.
it is a lonely path.
ha, i’m just kidding about the violent thing — that was a line from an HG “dustup” a few months ago. fwiw, i am a fucking pussy who happens to only be 6’2″ so whatevs.
i agree darby about moving on when the drive stops. i’m trying to write for better reasons than seeing erlewine on duotrope and posting links on facebook abut my stories. such a tool i am and i say that with some self-love (not the nasty kind, just the acceptance kind)
jereme, you are fucking my world up right now, but not in an awful way. i think you may be onto something here, something horrifying (for me) but something worth thinking about a lot.
jereme, you are fucking my world up right now, but not in an awful way. i think you may be onto something here, something horrifying (for me) but something worth thinking about a lot.
thanks brodine
also, kidding about seeing shrink :-D
fuck i wish there was a way to go back and edit comments. i get distracted at work and forget to proofread and fix mistakes. gay ass wordpress. i hate your existence.
thanks brodine
also, kidding about seeing shrink :-D
fuck i wish there was a way to go back and edit comments. i get distracted at work and forget to proofread and fix mistakes. gay ass wordpress. i hate your existence.
david,
i have thought about it a lot. i remember buk was always writing about committing suicide but never attempting it. he never stopped writing to the day of his death.
now if you look at the list of writers suicided compared to actors, painters, etc. i think you’ll find that writers commit suicide a lot more than any other artistic profession.
why do you think that is?
jereme, i don’t know if writing is the root there re: suicide. You can say the same thing broadly about life, like everyone wakes up one day and says is this all life is, and a certain kind of person will then kill themself. Maybe that certain kind of person stumbles on writing and uses it as a deterrent for a little while, because there’s a natural catharsis in writing, but for that kind of person, it will fade and they will eventually kill themself. I think writing itself has less to do with it, I think they were just doomed to begin with.
david,
i have thought about it a lot. i remember buk was always writing about committing suicide but never attempting it. he never stopped writing to the day of his death.
now if you look at the list of writers suicided compared to actors, painters, etc. i think you’ll find that writers commit suicide a lot more than any other artistic profession.
why do you think that is?
jereme, i don’t know if writing is the root there re: suicide. You can say the same thing broadly about life, like everyone wakes up one day and says is this all life is, and a certain kind of person will then kill themself. Maybe that certain kind of person stumbles on writing and uses it as a deterrent for a little while, because there’s a natural catharsis in writing, but for that kind of person, it will fade and they will eventually kill themself. I think writing itself has less to do with it, I think they were just doomed to begin with.
darby,
i think you misinterpret the question.
it is not “is this all their is to life” it is “is this all i can create? is this it?”
some people find the answer very depressing and turn to suicide.
of course the shrinks will tell you suicide is an act of anger. i think the majority of the suicides are but not always.
some people just can’t handle the sadness.
but whatever. this is just my opinion.
darby,
i think you misinterpret the question.
it is not “is this all their is to life” it is “is this all i can create? is this it?”
some people find the answer very depressing and turn to suicide.
of course the shrinks will tell you suicide is an act of anger. i think the majority of the suicides are but not always.
some people just can’t handle the sadness.
but whatever. this is just my opinion.
ha, i knew you were kidding, my friend. not that there’s anyting wrong with it…
i was kidding about the bukkake line but meant the congratulations. i can’t imagine getting seven different things published in one hour.
ha, i knew you were kidding, my friend. not that there’s anyting wrong with it…
i was kidding about the bukkake line but meant the congratulations. i can’t imagine getting seven different things published in one hour.
i liked the bukkake line
i liked the bukkake line
i don’t know, i don’t think about it that much. to be suicidal for thinking ‘is this all I can create’ without there being something deeper going on seems dishonest to me, like they’ve stacked up way too much of their self-worth into their ability to create, and that would happen only in an environment where there is a lack of self-worth otherwise, so let’s get to the bottom of that environment first, is how my brain is registering it. though i have no experience with feeling suicidal beyond a teenage curiosity, so I’m the last person to be talking about this, or making judgements, or psychoanalyzing strangers.
i don’t know, i don’t think about it that much. to be suicidal for thinking ‘is this all I can create’ without there being something deeper going on seems dishonest to me, like they’ve stacked up way too much of their self-worth into their ability to create, and that would happen only in an environment where there is a lack of self-worth otherwise, so let’s get to the bottom of that environment first, is how my brain is registering it. though i have no experience with feeling suicidal beyond a teenage curiosity, so I’m the last person to be talking about this, or making judgements, or psychoanalyzing strangers.
Hmm, Jereme and Darby you are engaging in quite the discussion here. I haven’t thought much about suicide or learned much about it. I guess I’ve always thought of it as more depression/sadness rather than anger but that would just support the not knowing shit thing.
I took off a year in 2002 and did nothing but write/read/etc. I scared the hell out of my family b/c I left a decent lawyer job to do so. When I came back, I got married, had kids, etc. and did almost no writing until late 2008. I was pretty happy all around, I guess, other than the obvious issues related to stuttering, which can make things annoying for me but in the overall scheme of things is pretty minor.
Now that I’ve been writing again for six months I’m happier in some ways but more fucked up in others. From 03-08, I rarely thought about my childhood or the shit that happened. But since writing again I often get these random flashes to things I’d blocked out. Okay, that sounds dramatic. Nothing like what that sounds like, thankfully…just petty slights or bullies or stuttering-related nicknames from friends (or their fathers), etc. I often think that I can “turn off” the part of my brain that really wants to write/express such things…but then other times I sort of feel like doing that is just a lessened version of the Cuckoo’s Nest ending.
Hmm, Jereme and Darby you are engaging in quite the discussion here. I haven’t thought much about suicide or learned much about it. I guess I’ve always thought of it as more depression/sadness rather than anger but that would just support the not knowing shit thing.
I took off a year in 2002 and did nothing but write/read/etc. I scared the hell out of my family b/c I left a decent lawyer job to do so. When I came back, I got married, had kids, etc. and did almost no writing until late 2008. I was pretty happy all around, I guess, other than the obvious issues related to stuttering, which can make things annoying for me but in the overall scheme of things is pretty minor.
Now that I’ve been writing again for six months I’m happier in some ways but more fucked up in others. From 03-08, I rarely thought about my childhood or the shit that happened. But since writing again I often get these random flashes to things I’d blocked out. Okay, that sounds dramatic. Nothing like what that sounds like, thankfully…just petty slights or bullies or stuttering-related nicknames from friends (or their fathers), etc. I often think that I can “turn off” the part of my brain that really wants to write/express such things…but then other times I sort of feel like doing that is just a lessened version of the Cuckoo’s Nest ending.
thanks Jereme! I’m trying to work more porn references into my writing and posts. The wife loves that.
thanks Jereme! I’m trying to work more porn references into my writing and posts. The wife loves that.
fuck me. i replied to the wrong “reply” button. thanks jereme.
nodding
fuck me. i replied to the wrong “reply” button. thanks jereme.
nodding
I don’t think it has anything to do with being a writer specifically, I’m sure there are tons of writers who don’t think twice about themselves and who, if they stopped writing, would quite easily take up paint-by-numbers or become a PR representative for a small-town non-profit or something. Not that that’s necessarily a bad thing.
I think some people do turn to writing/painting/singing (I’m not sure if writing really has more suicides than any other artistic profession, except maybe the physical/live performance-based ones which naturally supply huge endorphines) in order to get out of their own head and as an alternative to suicide/going crazy or whatever.
I think these people might eventually commit suicide because they feel wasted or like they can’t accomplish what they used to/are in constant pain (Hunter Thompson, Jack London, Hemmingway, etc) rather than just committing suicide because they aren’t writing and now they’re full-blown crazy or something because of it (?). Most of these people have a bleak outlook to begin with, and realise that fame/fortune aren’t necessarily going to bring them anything, I think. And when their writing goes and they can’t think of anything else to do and they feel more and more useless every day, what else is there?
I don’t think it has anything to do with being a writer specifically, I’m sure there are tons of writers who don’t think twice about themselves and who, if they stopped writing, would quite easily take up paint-by-numbers or become a PR representative for a small-town non-profit or something. Not that that’s necessarily a bad thing.
I think some people do turn to writing/painting/singing (I’m not sure if writing really has more suicides than any other artistic profession, except maybe the physical/live performance-based ones which naturally supply huge endorphines) in order to get out of their own head and as an alternative to suicide/going crazy or whatever.
I think these people might eventually commit suicide because they feel wasted or like they can’t accomplish what they used to/are in constant pain (Hunter Thompson, Jack London, Hemmingway, etc) rather than just committing suicide because they aren’t writing and now they’re full-blown crazy or something because of it (?). Most of these people have a bleak outlook to begin with, and realise that fame/fortune aren’t necessarily going to bring them anything, I think. And when their writing goes and they can’t think of anything else to do and they feel more and more useless every day, what else is there?
That didn’t post where I wanted it to (at the bottom of the thread below). Damn!
That didn’t post where I wanted it to (at the bottom of the thread below). Damn!
When you rise to a higher level in something, you expect to feel yourself rising higher. What you usually end up feeling is that you’re still the same, but all of the “levels” have moved down. Like instead of climbing up a ladder, the ladder is climbing down you.
When you rise to a higher level in something, you expect to feel yourself rising higher. What you usually end up feeling is that you’re still the same, but all of the “levels” have moved down. Like instead of climbing up a ladder, the ladder is climbing down you.
well, it was one “submission” so they were all published at the same time because they were kind of one entity… it happened an hour ago, when i had posted that… so maybe you misread or i miswrote or something
well, it was one “submission” so they were all published at the same time because they were kind of one entity… it happened an hour ago, when i had posted that… so maybe you misread or i miswrote or something
I like that image.
I like that image.
Agreed. Life is like that a lot. You don’t think anything has happened since you’ve been there for it all, but when someone else comes along they think a lot has changed. It’s weird. The ladder analogy is a very nice way of putting it.
Agreed. Life is like that a lot. You don’t think anything has happened since you’ve been there for it all, but when someone else comes along they think a lot has changed. It’s weird. The ladder analogy is a very nice way of putting it.
i would support this, yes. one of you might need to be gay or charlie sheen for it to work. or you could be reversed-gender polygamists with pr and we could pitch it to HBO.
i would support this, yes. one of you might need to be gay or charlie sheen for it to work. or you could be reversed-gender polygamists with pr and we could pitch it to HBO.
true. barry and darby are probably the deniro and pacino of this analogy.
true. barry and darby are probably the deniro and pacino of this analogy.
Didn’t mean that whole ‘illumination’ bit in a ‘I want to be a genius and have others think I’m a genius and feel pretty awesome and elite about it’ way, but more of a ‘Hey, I may/may not have something interesting to say. I don’t really know and it’s mainly up to you to decide’.
Because, for me, whenever I get that illuminatory feeling when I read, I don’t think ‘wow, this author knows everything ever. I will worship him. He is so much more intelligent than me, I am a peon in comparison to him.’ I just think they’ve thought about something in a very relatable, human way.
Didn’t mean that whole ‘illumination’ bit in a ‘I want to be a genius and have others think I’m a genius and feel pretty awesome and elite about it’ way, but more of a ‘Hey, I may/may not have something interesting to say. I don’t really know and it’s mainly up to you to decide’.
Because, for me, whenever I get that illuminatory feeling when I read, I don’t think ‘wow, this author knows everything ever. I will worship him. He is so much more intelligent than me, I am a peon in comparison to him.’ I just think they’ve thought about something in a very relatable, human way.
@ Jereme-
HI!
Regarding Buk- he did stop writing once, for a solid ten years I believe it was. He said it was the smartest thing he ever did.
I’m 90 percent certain on that fact.
@ Jereme-
HI!
Regarding Buk- he did stop writing once, for a solid ten years I believe it was. He said it was the smartest thing he ever did.
I’m 90 percent certain on that fact.
and still managed to eek out ten billion poems and stories.
and still managed to eek out ten billion poems and stories.
It’s like laughing, reading and writing. … where you slough off the crust that’s accomodated itself to you like a habit. a lie, a false belief, or simple ignorance.
I think Noon. NY Tyrant, and American Short Fiction would put me in good company. It’s all about company.
It’s like laughing, reading and writing. … where you slough off the crust that’s accomodated itself to you like a habit. a lie, a false belief, or simple ignorance.
I think Noon. NY Tyrant, and American Short Fiction would put me in good company. It’s all about company.
Nothing will change your life but you, and anyone who thinks otherwise is a total moron – so I’m not surprised some of you actually listed publications.
Rilke: “for there is no place that does not see you/you must change your life.”
Not: “for McSweeney’s will get you seen/it will change your life.”
Meanwhile, congratulations to New York’s great Asian-American poets who today were announced as winners of $7,000 fellowships from the New York Foundation for the Arts: Suji Kim, Sue Song and Tina Chang. They don’t need no stinking contests or eBay scams.
Nothing will change your life but you, and anyone who thinks otherwise is a total moron – so I’m not surprised some of you actually listed publications.
Rilke: “for there is no place that does not see you/you must change your life.”
Not: “for McSweeney’s will get you seen/it will change your life.”
Meanwhile, congratulations to New York’s great Asian-American poets who today were announced as winners of $7,000 fellowships from the New York Foundation for the Arts: Suji Kim, Sue Song and Tina Chang. They don’t need no stinking contests or eBay scams.
The reason why some people listed actual journals is because Blake asked in the post “to name the 3 literary journals” and then he wrote that “would change your life”. He was being hyperbolic, of course, but clearly one of his meanings is —“in which three journals would you really like love to see your work.?” A valid question and one where the answer expresses the tastes and ambitions of any writer who had the balls to answer it.
The reason why some people listed actual journals is because Blake asked in the post “to name the 3 literary journals” and then he wrote that “would change your life”. He was being hyperbolic, of course, but clearly one of his meanings is —“in which three journals would you really like love to see your work.?” A valid question and one where the answer expresses the tastes and ambitions of any writer who had the balls to answer it.
You all have too much time on your fucking hands. Get a job!
You all have too much time on your fucking hands. Get a job!
i think we all have jobs. deal with your anger, CCC.
i think we all have jobs. deal with your anger, CCC.
i think that fucking is not so natural and publishing not so unnatural.
fucking is learned (technique, positions), even if the general desire is may be ‘natural’
publishing is learned insofar as how and where to send things, but i think the desire to have other people read your work is ‘natural’
i’m using ‘natural’ to mean ‘not actively learned’ — like, i don’t really know how much my desire for publishing or women is learned from culture. ‘natural’ is a weird category anyways
i think that fucking is not so natural and publishing not so unnatural.
fucking is learned (technique, positions), even if the general desire is may be ‘natural’
publishing is learned insofar as how and where to send things, but i think the desire to have other people read your work is ‘natural’
i’m using ‘natural’ to mean ‘not actively learned’ — like, i don’t really know how much my desire for publishing or women is learned from culture. ‘natural’ is a weird category anyways
i love when people’s names are alliterations. i especially love when alliterations give me advice. when i was young, and when the bundle of my youth spread out like an alliteration that attacked people for having or not having jobs, i used to think about the flavor of corrado, but i couldn’t think about it, because i’d never tasted corrado, and then i lost my car keys, and then i ate some licorice. dance. dance. dance.
i love when people’s names are alliterations. i especially love when alliterations give me advice. when i was young, and when the bundle of my youth spread out like an alliteration that attacked people for having or not having jobs, i used to think about the flavor of corrado, but i couldn’t think about it, because i’d never tasted corrado, and then i lost my car keys, and then i ate some licorice. dance. dance. dance.
I can’t even pronounce that Mexi-spick name. How do you say that? Cow to mock?
I can’t even pronounce that Mexi-spick name. How do you say that? Cow to mock?
I think it’s a maturity thing, no longer expecting those experiences to change you. When I was a kid I thought everything would change me. Thought I would “feel different” when I was published, etc.
I think it’s a maturity thing, no longer expecting those experiences to change you. When I was a kid I thought everything would change me. Thought I would “feel different” when I was published, etc.
is there anyone who does believe that getting published can change you
is there anyone who does believe that getting published can change you
clearly those fellowships didn’t change their lives at all though, amirite ladies!
also… woah, I know two of those people you just named…
clearly those fellowships didn’t change their lives at all though, amirite ladies!
also… woah, I know two of those people you just named…
Yes. Her name is Nell Freudenberger.
Yes. Her name is Nell Freudenberger.
I read an interview with her once. It went something like this, “and so my dad, who is a hugely succesful writer for television, gave my story to one of his agents, Andrew Wylie(this is not truly the interview, but you get the idea from my mockery here) and he liked it, and I was like, really? That is so surprising! I was shocked. So then I got a massive ten book deal and I was just so lucky and worked so hard even though I was only 21! I mean, who would have thought?
That was mean. She’s a good writer I guess. But, yeah. She knew some people, too.
I feel bad I just wrote that . Clearly, I am super envious. Just so you know. My griping is pure envy and says more about me than her.
I read an interview with her once. It went something like this, “and so my dad, who is a hugely succesful writer for television, gave my story to one of his agents, Andrew Wylie(this is not truly the interview, but you get the idea from my mockery here) and he liked it, and I was like, really? That is so surprising! I was shocked. So then I got a massive ten book deal and I was just so lucky and worked so hard even though I was only 21! I mean, who would have thought?
That was mean. She’s a good writer I guess. But, yeah. She knew some people, too.
I feel bad I just wrote that . Clearly, I am super envious. Just so you know. My griping is pure envy and says more about me than her.
I think it is fair to say that some people find “success” too early, earlier than they probably deserved, even if they are good writers. I mean, imagine what you could have done with those resources at 21, you know? Maybe that’s bitterthink. I’m not really trying to frame it that way… I just find it interesting to think about. Maybe you’re a deeper writer if you “suffered” longer, or whatever, or maybe you have more time to work things out, you know?
I think it is fair to say that some people find “success” too early, earlier than they probably deserved, even if they are good writers. I mean, imagine what you could have done with those resources at 21, you know? Maybe that’s bitterthink. I’m not really trying to frame it that way… I just find it interesting to think about. Maybe you’re a deeper writer if you “suffered” longer, or whatever, or maybe you have more time to work things out, you know?
are you talking about when he was drinking himself to death and almost died or are you talking about when he contracted tb?
he still wrote when he had tb. just not as much.
are you talking about when he was drinking himself to death and almost died or are you talking about when he contracted tb?
he still wrote when he had tb. just not as much.
what there is is you and you doing what you do. you are doing what you are doing. that is what’s happening. if you get something published, it will just be something that happened. the moon is moving 1.5 inches away from the earth every year.
what there is is you and you doing what you do. you are doing what you are doing. that is what’s happening. if you get something published, it will just be something that happened. the moon is moving 1.5 inches away from the earth every year.
what does it matter?
publication has nothing to do with writing.
i mean what is at heart of the question here?
sure, i think if you asked some one young they will say “yes, publication will change me”.
if you ask some one who’s been around awhile they will probably give a different answer.
what are you getting at?
what does it matter?
publication has nothing to do with writing.
i mean what is at heart of the question here?
sure, i think if you asked some one young they will say “yes, publication will change me”.
if you ask some one who’s been around awhile they will probably give a different answer.
what are you getting at?
In what sense does publication have nothing to do with writing?
Publication is the method by which writing communicates with readers, kinda like how CDs/concerts are how musicians communicate with people or DVDs and feature films are how film actors and directors communicate.
Perhaps we could say there are other avenues than traditional magazine publications for writers to get their work read, but publishing of some kind still seems to me to be an essential part of the artform
In what sense does publication have nothing to do with writing?
Publication is the method by which writing communicates with readers, kinda like how CDs/concerts are how musicians communicate with people or DVDs and feature films are how film actors and directors communicate.
Perhaps we could say there are other avenues than traditional magazine publications for writers to get their work read, but publishing of some kind still seems to me to be an essential part of the artform
I think anything can change you. If you’re publishing things, that’s different from not publishing things, so automatically you’ve “changed.” I think it’s really hard to trace back through things and say how life would be different if X had happened or Y hadn’t happened, etc. Publishing things can lead to meeting people and forming connections and networking and making friends and being part of a community of sorts and having other opportunities, and who knows? I don’t think it’s necessarily life-altering in the huge “I’m a whole new person!” sense. But it’s a different path that you choose to go down, when you could have gone down a different one, and don’t all those choices ultimately turn out to be “life-changing” in some small way?
I think anything can change you. If you’re publishing things, that’s different from not publishing things, so automatically you’ve “changed.” I think it’s really hard to trace back through things and say how life would be different if X had happened or Y hadn’t happened, etc. Publishing things can lead to meeting people and forming connections and networking and making friends and being part of a community of sorts and having other opportunities, and who knows? I don’t think it’s necessarily life-altering in the huge “I’m a whole new person!” sense. But it’s a different path that you choose to go down, when you could have gone down a different one, and don’t all those choices ultimately turn out to be “life-changing” in some small way?
no cds and dvds are how you make money. it has nothing to do with the craft of creating. it has to do purely with $$$.
i create a novel. it is my creation. the creation process is over.
everything past that is ego and $$$.
persuade me otherwise. i will listen.
li po learned this lesson when most of his poetry was burned.
did he create to create or to garner fame and money?
hey if you create to get laid and get paid and have people know your name that is cool with me.
just has nothing to do with the actual creation process really.
validation is about ego.
no cds and dvds are how you make money. it has nothing to do with the craft of creating. it has to do purely with $$$.
i create a novel. it is my creation. the creation process is over.
everything past that is ego and $$$.
persuade me otherwise. i will listen.
li po learned this lesson when most of his poetry was burned.
did he create to create or to garner fame and money?
hey if you create to get laid and get paid and have people know your name that is cool with me.
just has nothing to do with the actual creation process really.
validation is about ego.
you breath you learn
you breath you learn
pr don’t feed the retard.
pr don’t feed the retard.
Lincoln, I agree with you. Someone somewhere in this thread said something about things being created to be received, and the process not being complete until that happens, and that hits the nail on the head for me. In my mind, if you’re doing anything creative and caring about the craft of it and trying to make it as “good” (however subjective that may be) as possible, then what you’re doing is something that’s intended to have an audience. I don’t think there’s anything impure or egotistical about that, it’s just the function of the work. If you are a chef, you make food for people to eat, not just because you like making food. Presumably you like making food, and it’s an enjoyable activity, but the end purpose is for it to be consumed. And I don’t mean that the creative process itself has to be filled with any sort of hyper-awareness of publishing and markets and all that. But it seems perfectly natural to create with the intention or hope of things being seen.
Lincoln, I agree with you. Someone somewhere in this thread said something about things being created to be received, and the process not being complete until that happens, and that hits the nail on the head for me. In my mind, if you’re doing anything creative and caring about the craft of it and trying to make it as “good” (however subjective that may be) as possible, then what you’re doing is something that’s intended to have an audience. I don’t think there’s anything impure or egotistical about that, it’s just the function of the work. If you are a chef, you make food for people to eat, not just because you like making food. Presumably you like making food, and it’s an enjoyable activity, but the end purpose is for it to be consumed. And I don’t mean that the creative process itself has to be filled with any sort of hyper-awareness of publishing and markets and all that. But it seems perfectly natural to create with the intention or hope of things being seen.
Well, the word “writing” means more than just the creation process, so I perhaps I misread you.
Still, I’m doubtful that the creation process is as pure as that, as Blake discussed above.
Well, the word “writing” means more than just the creation process, so I perhaps I misread you.
Still, I’m doubtful that the creation process is as pure as that, as Blake discussed above.
angi,
why is it important to have people see your work?
if you have put everything you have into what you have created what does it matter what others think?
unless you are just creating to get paid, like chef would. it is a career choice. man i can make a lot of money if i become a chef plus i really enjoy food.
well that is not earnest at all.
angi,
why is it important to have people see your work?
if you have put everything you have into what you have created what does it matter what others think?
unless you are just creating to get paid, like chef would. it is a career choice. man i can make a lot of money if i become a chef plus i really enjoy food.
well that is not earnest at all.
lincoln,
okay i’ll pose this question to you:
why do you write?
lincoln,
okay i’ll pose this question to you:
why do you write?
jereme,
not to answer for angi, but I still think art (broadly speaking) is about communication (broadly speaking) and if there is no communication going on then…well…
I guess I’m not sure why it is more egotistical to want to have your work be read by others and share something with them than to create work that is only for yourself and only to edify and satisfy yourself.
jereme,
not to answer for angi, but I still think art (broadly speaking) is about communication (broadly speaking) and if there is no communication going on then…well…
I guess I’m not sure why it is more egotistical to want to have your work be read by others and share something with them than to create work that is only for yourself and only to edify and satisfy yourself.
I’m definitely more sympathetic to this view than the kind of view expressed by different people above that nothing can every change you but yourself. This that you do in life, things people say, things that happen… these affect how you view yourself, how you view the world, how you act. Isn’t that change?
I don’t think publication is going to massively change your life unless said publication leads to book deal that leads to a new career or a lot of fame or something. Is that what we are talking about, or just about how your perceptions, habits or attitudes might or might not change by publication?
I’m definitely more sympathetic to this view than the kind of view expressed by different people above that nothing can every change you but yourself. This that you do in life, things people say, things that happen… these affect how you view yourself, how you view the world, how you act. Isn’t that change?
I don’t think publication is going to massively change your life unless said publication leads to book deal that leads to a new career or a lot of fame or something. Is that what we are talking about, or just about how your perceptions, habits or attitudes might or might not change by publication?
lincoln,
i did not say publication is good or bad. i am being indifferent actually.
what i am saying is publication has nothing to do with writing. it is a construct of ego.
why not just go around and hand people your work? why not just publish your work on a blog?
well because if you publish it on a blog then you probably won’t get as many readers. you want readers because you seek validation, no?
at first when you feed your ego it feels good. holy shit i got published in X print journal. omfg!
but it becomes banal and easy as you grow older.
your ego isn’t satiated any more.
i am saying writing and publication are separate and nothing more.
i’m okay if you want your name on the billboards.
cool with me. go wet them panties with your words.
it has nothing to do with the solitary act of creation.
i have posed a challenge before on blake’s blog in the comments section and i will do it again here.
sit down and write your best work, put everything you have into it until it is “perfect” in your mind, now completely destroy the thing.
burn it if it is typed. perm delete if it is on the computer.
i bet you can’t do it.
ego is a motherfucker.
so once again i ask why do you write?
lincoln,
i did not say publication is good or bad. i am being indifferent actually.
what i am saying is publication has nothing to do with writing. it is a construct of ego.
why not just go around and hand people your work? why not just publish your work on a blog?
well because if you publish it on a blog then you probably won’t get as many readers. you want readers because you seek validation, no?
at first when you feed your ego it feels good. holy shit i got published in X print journal. omfg!
but it becomes banal and easy as you grow older.
your ego isn’t satiated any more.
i am saying writing and publication are separate and nothing more.
i’m okay if you want your name on the billboards.
cool with me. go wet them panties with your words.
it has nothing to do with the solitary act of creation.
i have posed a challenge before on blake’s blog in the comments section and i will do it again here.
sit down and write your best work, put everything you have into it until it is “perfect” in your mind, now completely destroy the thing.
burn it if it is typed. perm delete if it is on the computer.
i bet you can’t do it.
ego is a motherfucker.
so once again i ask why do you write?
Jereme, I certainly don’t expect to ever make a lot of money from writing. And I don’t think that most people who value publishing their work expect to ever make a lot of money from it, unless they are incredibly naive. But I think a large part of the purpose of creation is having that creation seen by others. What is any artist trying to do? Aren’t they all trying to move people, to cause some kind of reaction, whether it’s with a painting or a song or a poem? I think the world is a better place because people make beautiful things and put them out into the world where other people can experience those things. I love music, and I love books, and I love the way those things make me feel, and thank goodness the people who make those things I love aren’t just creating for some notion of the pure act of creating and then tossing it in a box in their closet where I can’t experience it. Maybe different people have different notions of what art is for, or what artists are or should be trying to do, but I think the world would be a pretty bleak place if no one who created anything shared those creations with other people.
Jereme, I certainly don’t expect to ever make a lot of money from writing. And I don’t think that most people who value publishing their work expect to ever make a lot of money from it, unless they are incredibly naive. But I think a large part of the purpose of creation is having that creation seen by others. What is any artist trying to do? Aren’t they all trying to move people, to cause some kind of reaction, whether it’s with a painting or a song or a poem? I think the world is a better place because people make beautiful things and put them out into the world where other people can experience those things. I love music, and I love books, and I love the way those things make me feel, and thank goodness the people who make those things I love aren’t just creating for some notion of the pure act of creating and then tossing it in a box in their closet where I can’t experience it. Maybe different people have different notions of what art is for, or what artists are or should be trying to do, but I think the world would be a pretty bleak place if no one who created anything shared those creations with other people.
jereme, you’re a smart guy, can’t you see that you’re definition is operating off a different premise than angi’s? particularly you’re supposition of the ego as a self-contained separate entity, and thus asserting that all actions beyond itself are primarily and solely to satisfy some need exclusive to itself and to the detriment and inconsideration of all else. there is such a thing as symbosis. and beyond that, the creation/reception, existence/perception, argument is far larger than can be contained here, but i would likewise say i am inclined to a circuit model vs what you seem to present as a model in which we’re all just a bunch of led’s clumped in a plastic bag. led’s only light up when they are part of a circuit, nor do they even exist as led’s except as the potential to light up.
angi,
i am not saying “do not publish”.
i am saying identify what it really is so it does not negatively affect you.
fully analzye what it is you are doing and be aware of your self and your actions.
nothing more.
jereme, you’re a smart guy, can’t you see that you’re definition is operating off a different premise than angi’s? particularly you’re supposition of the ego as a self-contained separate entity, and thus asserting that all actions beyond itself are primarily and solely to satisfy some need exclusive to itself and to the detriment and inconsideration of all else. there is such a thing as symbosis. and beyond that, the creation/reception, existence/perception, argument is far larger than can be contained here, but i would likewise say i am inclined to a circuit model vs what you seem to present as a model in which we’re all just a bunch of led’s clumped in a plastic bag. led’s only light up when they are part of a circuit, nor do they even exist as led’s except as the potential to light up.
angi,
i am not saying “do not publish”.
i am saying identify what it really is so it does not negatively affect you.
fully analzye what it is you are doing and be aware of your self and your actions.
nothing more.
keith,
and i am saying instead of being a led be aware you are a led connected to a circuit board.
look past your navel.
and shine like the super nova motherfucker you are.
that’s it.
keith,
and i am saying instead of being a led be aware you are a led connected to a circuit board.
look past your navel.
and shine like the super nova motherfucker you are.
that’s it.
There’s the contingent, semi-delusional stuff that publishing in this or that venue could help lead to a book deal that would at least take a moderate bite out of my massive amounts of debt, thus making a slightly less anxiety-ridden, freaked-out-by-life person. (Though anxiety and freaked-out-by-lifeness might exist in fixed quantities that will simply attach to the next scary object I see.)
But the real answer for me is: I do think that publication can at least help prevent you from changing for the worse: having stuff appear here and there, and having a community of other writers you publish with, is good for just keeping you writing and engaged with writing in general. I tend to be more or less happy with myself when I’m writing, or reading intently, whereas when I’m refreshing Gawker for the fifteenth time in a day, or watching a rerun of Law & Order: Criminal Intent, I feel torpid and kind of awful. And it’s easy to imagine sinking full-time into the torpid, kind-of-awful mode for the whole rest of your life. So yeah, being published is part of a process that keeps you (or me, at any rate) alert and engaged as a human. (Some people are capable of writing just for themselves; I don’t think I could do that indefinitely.) Per the DFW Kenyon speech: “Learning how to think really means learning how to exercise some control over how and what you think. It means being conscious and aware enough to choose what you pay attention to and to choose how you construct meaning from experience. Because if you cannot exercise this kind of choice in adult life, you will be totally hosed.”
For me, then, publication gives a push to the writing and reading, which are related to control, awareness, and not being hosed. So in a sense this answer agrees w/Jereme above — publication and writing are two separate things. But without publication, it takes a particular type of person to keep the writing going.
On a total sidebar, I just got a text from someone who said he was at a “kindergarten graduation” and I had this image of DFW delivering that speech not to a Kenyon graduating class but to a bunch of five-year-olds absently chewing on their fingers, staring into space, trading Pokemon pogs (?). “The plain fact is that you do not yet have any clue what “day in day out” really means,” etc., “They shoot the terrible master,” etc., etc.
There’s the contingent, semi-delusional stuff that publishing in this or that venue could help lead to a book deal that would at least take a moderate bite out of my massive amounts of debt, thus making a slightly less anxiety-ridden, freaked-out-by-life person. (Though anxiety and freaked-out-by-lifeness might exist in fixed quantities that will simply attach to the next scary object I see.)
But the real answer for me is: I do think that publication can at least help prevent you from changing for the worse: having stuff appear here and there, and having a community of other writers you publish with, is good for just keeping you writing and engaged with writing in general. I tend to be more or less happy with myself when I’m writing, or reading intently, whereas when I’m refreshing Gawker for the fifteenth time in a day, or watching a rerun of Law & Order: Criminal Intent, I feel torpid and kind of awful. And it’s easy to imagine sinking full-time into the torpid, kind-of-awful mode for the whole rest of your life. So yeah, being published is part of a process that keeps you (or me, at any rate) alert and engaged as a human. (Some people are capable of writing just for themselves; I don’t think I could do that indefinitely.) Per the DFW Kenyon speech: “Learning how to think really means learning how to exercise some control over how and what you think. It means being conscious and aware enough to choose what you pay attention to and to choose how you construct meaning from experience. Because if you cannot exercise this kind of choice in adult life, you will be totally hosed.”
For me, then, publication gives a push to the writing and reading, which are related to control, awareness, and not being hosed. So in a sense this answer agrees w/Jereme above — publication and writing are two separate things. But without publication, it takes a particular type of person to keep the writing going.
On a total sidebar, I just got a text from someone who said he was at a “kindergarten graduation” and I had this image of DFW delivering that speech not to a Kenyon graduating class but to a bunch of five-year-olds absently chewing on their fingers, staring into space, trading Pokemon pogs (?). “The plain fact is that you do not yet have any clue what “day in day out” really means,” etc., “They shoot the terrible master,” etc., etc.
led-awareness: my ears hear many tones in your motley voices, but that’s a sweet-ass tune.
led-awareness: my ears hear many tones in your motley voices, but that’s a sweet-ass tune.
analyze!
analyze!
this is good stuff.
I’m with ya. Without publication (either my own writing being published, or my publishing other writers), I doubt that I’d have gotten to know to any degree a number of people I now consider friends. The publication in and of itself wasn’t life-changing, but the accumulation of interwoven publications was, in that the network of people I care about expanded.
I’m with ya. Without publication (either my own writing being published, or my publishing other writers), I doubt that I’d have gotten to know to any degree a number of people I now consider friends. The publication in and of itself wasn’t life-changing, but the accumulation of interwoven publications was, in that the network of people I care about expanded.
yes darby but the key phrase here is not analyze but “awareness”
analysis is the tool to achieve awareness.
once all things are expected and understood you cannot be negatively affected.
of course i am not saying i am at this level.
it is an ongoing process.
it probably can. though it’s probably hard for writers to admit it the longer and jadeder they continue to write and move through periods of being unpublished. To deal with those periods we devalue publication in our heads, we say, oh it’s not really that important, I didn’t want it that bad anyway. the more you succeed at anything you strive for, the more confident you become. I’m contradicting my answer yesterday but today’s a new day I guess. When I took my first creative writing workshop, I was unpublished and my mind was completely open to simply learning, completely ego-less. I tried to take another workshop a couple of years ago after I was already fairly published online and I couldn’t stand the class for more than a few sessions and I dropped it. Publication changed me in that respect.
you are “good stuff”
yes darby but the key phrase here is not analyze but “awareness”
analysis is the tool to achieve awareness.
once all things are expected and understood you cannot be negatively affected.
of course i am not saying i am at this level.
it is an ongoing process.
it probably can. though it’s probably hard for writers to admit it the longer and jadeder they continue to write and move through periods of being unpublished. To deal with those periods we devalue publication in our heads, we say, oh it’s not really that important, I didn’t want it that bad anyway. the more you succeed at anything you strive for, the more confident you become. I’m contradicting my answer yesterday but today’s a new day I guess. When I took my first creative writing workshop, I was unpublished and my mind was completely open to simply learning, completely ego-less. I tried to take another workshop a couple of years ago after I was already fairly published online and I couldn’t stand the class for more than a few sessions and I dropped it. Publication changed me in that respect.
you are “good stuff”
they have to all be black for the WB to sign it
then again, I don’t know if it’s ‘publication’ that’s the culprit there, or just experience, being more well-read, having a more defined sensibility. i don’t know.
they have to all be black for the WB to sign it
then again, I don’t know if it’s ‘publication’ that’s the culprit there, or just experience, being more well-read, having a more defined sensibility. i don’t know.
growing up.
growing up.
Up? Or old?
Up? Or old?
old! of course!
old! of course!
once you’ve seen the sun rise a few hundred times at the crest of mount haleakala it just doesn’t seem that fantastic any more.
it is experience. with age comes experience.
once you’ve seen the sun rise a few hundred times at the crest of mount haleakala it just doesn’t seem that fantastic any more.
it is experience. with age comes experience.
maybe it’s more like publication acts as the catalyst for a change of thinking from all-i’m-trying-to-do-is-be-published-and-I-don’t-really-know-what-kind-of-writing-I-like-but-I’ve-never-been-published-so-that’s-all-I’m-thinking-about to what-do-I-want-to-write?
maybe it’s more like publication acts as the catalyst for a change of thinking from all-i’m-trying-to-do-is-be-published-and-I-don’t-really-know-what-kind-of-writing-I-like-but-I’ve-never-been-published-so-that’s-all-I’m-thinking-about to what-do-I-want-to-write?
you are too jereme
shucks! thanks. am thinking more about this whole writing for oneself/for publication that lincoln, jereme and others got into above but sitting at work so must keep opening envelopes, looking inside them, closing them, and placing them in piles, for now. this discussion has certainly kicked off some interesting discussions.
shucks! thanks. am thinking more about this whole writing for oneself/for publication that lincoln, jereme and others got into above but sitting at work so must keep opening envelopes, looking inside them, closing them, and placing them in piles, for now. this discussion has certainly kicked off some interesting discussions.
whoah! discussion/discussions — shouldn’t make sentences while opening stacks of envelopes, apparently!
whoah! discussion/discussions — shouldn’t make sentences while opening stacks of envelopes, apparently!
btw, pr, what’s your take on all this? i think you chimed in half-jokingly above, but maybe not seriously?
also: did i ever say it was nice to meet you at kgb? it was!
btw, pr, what’s your take on all this? i think you chimed in half-jokingly above, but maybe not seriously?
also: did i ever say it was nice to meet you at kgb? it was!
It was nice meeting you too! I was sort of joking when I said “I want to get published so that people will want to fuck me” but I also wasn’t. I never was a stripper, but maybe my fiction functions as “I am a stripper on the page”. But if a stripper strips alone at home, with no one sticking dollar bills in her gstring, is she actually a stripper? Or a naked woman alone at home pretending to be a stripper? Also, it’s not the only reason I publish….or try to. I was being funny but not with that?
I wasn’t kidding when I said it is the next logical step if you devote yourself to writing. Truthfully? I don’t think it’s more complicated than that for me.
I also said that I think – I may be wrong–that Blake was being hyperbolic to start a discussion (and he has started a GREAT discussion that has gone down many tangents) when he said “change your life”. I think he was looking to tease out our aspirations, to find out which journals we love and want to be in (“name 3 journals”, which I am too embarrassed to do, my tastes and goals vary, but yeah, if I had to choose any journal it would be the one that is most pretigious in the world because if I’m going to win, I’d like to win big, I guess, that said, I am very very very grateful for even minor publications…I live gratitude for real )…and yeah, so all good to hear various people’s aspirations and goals re: publication.
I also wrote a comment in regard to Ken Baumann’s Kurt Vonnegut quote (but that was about writing not publishing)…
340 comments or something like that! Great job to Blake for sparking a lengthy discussion.
Checking back to the Giant in between, laundry, dishes, mopping, scolding wild children (4 boys in the house tonight), tennis watching…ah….also, I’m reading a story by Danit Brown- an old One Story- I don’t know what I think about it.
HI!
i think you can be a stripper at heart.
i think you can be a stripper at heart.
I like this and agree.
I like this and agree.
i don’t think the stripper analogy applies to writing/publishing.
it doesn’t make sense to me.
stripping is not creating anything. stripping is getting naked purely for money.
otherwise yes you are just a naked lonely chick at home.
viva la hips!
i don’t think the stripper analogy applies to writing/publishing.
it doesn’t make sense to me.
stripping is not creating anything. stripping is getting naked purely for money.
otherwise yes you are just a naked lonely chick at home.
viva la hips!
Strippers create big time, Jereme. Dance is very, very creative and perhaps as old as the tradition of oral storytelling, long before writing was invented.
That said, I know a bunch of dancers- fancy kinds, ballerina and modern dancers and strippers….anyway, not my artform for sure. I’m been meaning to do a more meaningful post that sort of touches on my feelings about performance and nudity…and this other woman’s book….maybe in a week or so…feeling overwhelmed regarding writing a thoughtful long post. Maybe it’s the four boys. Soon, I’ll be back to two- much less crazy then.
i agree, strippers can be very creative.
i agree, strippers can be very creative.
woah hold on. saying a stripper is the same as a ballerina is a bit of a stretch. i don’t know.
i have seen many a stripper. i even know a couple.
what they do is not creating. i’m sorry. you are going to have to defend yourself better if you want me to believe otherwise.
being creative and creating are two separate entities ryan.
woah hold on. saying a stripper is the same as a ballerina is a bit of a stretch. i don’t know.
i have seen many a stripper. i even know a couple.
what they do is not creating. i’m sorry. you are going to have to defend yourself better if you want me to believe otherwise.
being creative and creating are two separate entities ryan.
“what they do is not creating. i’m sorry. you are going to have to defend yourself better if you want me to believe otherwise.
being creative and creating are two separate entities ryan”
i said “creative.”
though a good stripper can create things too. they create imaginary bonds with customers. that’s how they make money, by fooling men into thinking they’re “gettable.” writers, if they are good, create a bond with their reader, fooling them into thinking all sorts of things.
“what they do is not creating. i’m sorry. you are going to have to defend yourself better if you want me to believe otherwise.
being creative and creating are two separate entities ryan”
i said “creative.”
though a good stripper can create things too. they create imaginary bonds with customers. that’s how they make money, by fooling men into thinking they’re “gettable.” writers, if they are good, create a bond with their reader, fooling them into thinking all sorts of things.
what is money
what is money
it’s that shit you double brew and drink every day to stay awake
it’s that shit you double brew and drink every day to stay awake
ryan,
yeah sure okay. you stick a naked body in front of me and sure i’ll believe your the queen of rotterdam and you think i’m sexy although we both know i’m not.
not the same. sorry.
when pussy is involved all bets are off.
ryan,
yeah sure okay. you stick a naked body in front of me and sure i’ll believe your the queen of rotterdam and you think i’m sexy although we both know i’m not.
not the same. sorry.
when pussy is involved all bets are off.
jereme,
you shouldn’t take me seriously. serious.
jereme,
you shouldn’t take me seriously. serious.
ALL BETS R OFF RYANZ
ALL BETS R OFF RYANZ
aw shit man
aw shit man
that shit in our gstrings.
i just went to a preschool graduation today and the image of DFW up there is hysterical.
His Kenyon speech, particularly the part you pulled, is good stuff. I sent a link of it to a friend who wrote back, “is this the guy who hung himself?” I think he was legitimately asking, not to be a dick.
i just went to a preschool graduation today and the image of DFW up there is hysterical.
His Kenyon speech, particularly the part you pulled, is good stuff. I sent a link of it to a friend who wrote back, “is this the guy who hung himself?” I think he was legitimately asking, not to be a dick.
I will cut myself of HG soon. I hit reply to Mark Doten’s reference above to DFW. Fuck this, I’m going back to bed.
I will cut myself of HG soon. I hit reply to Mark Doten’s reference above to DFW. Fuck this, I’m going back to bed.
who is himmler?
who is himmler?
people do not choose to go down path A or path B. these conceptual places that exist when people think about how things could have been different if they had done this or done that, they do not exist.
there is only you doing what you are doing. there is you doing what you are doing and that is always what you were going to be doing.
your life may seem different in a small way because of your perception of reality. space-time is not something that is happening right now, unfolding before you. we think that new moments are occurring every second but they aren’t. it just feels like we are experiencing them for the first time.
getting something published, expanding your social network as a result, feeling more connected… these things have not changed your life. these things are just your life happening. it may feel like your life has changed, but it is like if you are watching a movie and as it plays you keep thinking “this movie is changing, this movie keeps changing”. in a way, that is true. but it is kind of the wrong term. it is not changing, it is happening.
so the answer to the original questions of ‘why do you write?’ and ‘why do you try to get published?’ is something like: “because that’s what i am doing.”
people do not choose to go down path A or path B. these conceptual places that exist when people think about how things could have been different if they had done this or done that, they do not exist.
there is only you doing what you are doing. there is you doing what you are doing and that is always what you were going to be doing.
your life may seem different in a small way because of your perception of reality. space-time is not something that is happening right now, unfolding before you. we think that new moments are occurring every second but they aren’t. it just feels like we are experiencing them for the first time.
getting something published, expanding your social network as a result, feeling more connected… these things have not changed your life. these things are just your life happening. it may feel like your life has changed, but it is like if you are watching a movie and as it plays you keep thinking “this movie is changing, this movie keeps changing”. in a way, that is true. but it is kind of the wrong term. it is not changing, it is happening.
so the answer to the original questions of ‘why do you write?’ and ‘why do you try to get published?’ is something like: “because that’s what i am doing.”
money is a tool that allows human beings’ societal worth to be quantified
money is a tool that allows human beings’ societal worth to be quantified
Sirius is the brightest star in the night sky with a visual apparent magnitude of −1.46, almost twice as bright as Canopus, the next brightest star.
Sirius is the brightest star in the night sky with a visual apparent magnitude of −1.46, almost twice as bright as Canopus, the next brightest star.
to give back
to give back