September 16th, 2010 / 5:14 pm
Random
Roxane Gay
Random
Two questions. When Witz came out, it felt like a lot of people were obsessed with the length of the book at 700 pages, as if the length were an insurmountable obstacle. Jonathan Franzen’s Freedom is about 570 pages long and way heavier because it is an infernal hardcover book, and yet I don’t hear a lot of chatter about the length of the book. Why is that? I hate hardcover books. When I say hate, I mean I react irrationally to them. Holding them makes me want to punch something. It’s uncomfortable especially because I am reading Freedom right now and it literally pains me to hold it. I should have Kindled it. Does anyone else hate hardcover books as much as I do?
Tags: Cohen, Franzen, freedom, witz
Every time I have a hard cover I want to die. Amazing that they actually make you pay more for an inferior product. I’ll read FREEDOM when it comes out in paperback.
aye aye, hate them so much I can’t read them and have to wait for the paperback — I don’t do e-books tho
Love hardcovers.
Re: freedom I did hear chatter about it, witz, 2666, skippy dies and others showing big tomes aren’t dead like some thought
nah, but why is the artwork always inferior to the pb version? like, shit is allllllways, always.
maybe this should be book throwing/punching week.
i’ll elbow drop ‘moon palace’ if i find a copy…
Hate them hate them HATE them. My nook has been a fucking godsend because I can read my giant hardcover history books on it now.
I hate them even more than I hate mass market paperback. Especially when reading at night; how the hell are you supposed to comfortably read something in hardcover when you’re lying down, especially if it’s +600 pages?
That’s what I’m currently struggling with. Last night I was reading Freedom in bed and it was so frustrating. I could hardly concentrate on the book which itself is underwhelming (though it is still early going).
I’d say its more comfortable to read a hardcover lying down, but I also have big hands.
I used to feel the same way. Now, I love them, especially deckle-edge. I fucking love deckle-edge
Sorites paradox. How many grains does it take for a heap of sand to turn into a big book?
I’m happy to be reading the pb Infinite Jest; not too much pressure on the gut when lying down and having it propped up. Though the hardback would be nice to minimize spine damage and dog-ear-ing that’s occurring, even with the extra weight it’d bring with it.
I love hardcovers. They’re more durable, they proudly take up a lot of space while saying “Fuck you if you don’t like it”, and they make a great weapon, especially something like Stephen King’s IT. Yet they certainly are a pain in the ass to lug around. I do appreciate a book like Infinite Jest much more in paperback.
i hate cheap hardcovers (i.e. virtually all of the stuff that comes out from major presses), but in my eternal search for books, i’ve encountered some older small(er)-press stuff that is literally perfect and hardback. For example, the Mushinsha-Grossman edition of Rene Char’s Leaves of Hypnos (from the 60s, I believe), felt totally ideal to hold and read, and it would lay flat fine, which is a big reason why most hardback books don’t work for me.
yes to deckle-edge. yes.
Older hardcovers are a different thing entirely
I can’t read hardcovers in any position. Most books that aren’t fairly small paperbacks are a real struggle for me physically, though I do have shaky hands that sometimes just drop stuff of their own accord.
Yeah, I’ve heard a little length chatter. The Instructions likely to cause same said chatter soon.
Also, even with the wrist-related inconvenience, I love hardcovers. My love, though, is more a non-sexual sort of kink. I just love them as objects. I am rarely pragmatic about books.
True Norwegian Deckle Edge! Death to false deckle edge!
\m/
I have a hardcover copy of Farragan’s Retreat that is absolutely perfect for this reason.
I’m with you there, my hands don’t work that great either, and when I read lying down my hands and wrists seem to fall asleep. I read best sitting behind the wheel of a car, with the book at rest on the wheel. A parked car.
But I also like to read when I eat, at a table, and hardcovers are terrible for this. I think hardcovers are just for collectors.
When people expressed astonishment at Witz’s length, what they really meant was not “wow, someone can write a book this long” but rather “wow, someone can write a book *like this* that is this long. I think it’s clear to anyone who read either NY’ker excerpt of Freedom how Franzen did it–carefully, deliberately, and page by page by page. The mind that produces such a book may be superior–and the product may be, too–but both product and producer are knowable entities, in a way that the unique combination of sustained vision and achievement that goes into a book like Witz (or Infinite Jest, or etc. etc.) is so astonishing, and so unique, that both the product and the producing-consciousness remain perennially and delightfully uncanny, despite howevermuch familiarity you have with them. People seem to really *love* Freedom, and I have little reason to believe that they are wrong. What I do not see many people expressing w/r/t that novel, is Awe.
What is the commercial logic behind putting out any novel without pre-established mass appeal as a hardcover original? It seems to me like the more you charge for something the fewer people are going to be willing to take a chance on it. (Or are they hoping for library sales?)
That’s a good question. I actively do not want any book of mine to be released in hardcover. I have little say in this, but the feeling is there nonetheless.
i despise hardcovers with all of my being.
Every time I have a hard cover I want to die. Amazing that they actually make you pay more for an inferior product. I’ll read FREEDOM when it comes out in paperback.
I don’t like mass market paperbacks.
aye aye, hate them so much I can’t read them and have to wait for the paperback — I don’t do e-books tho
Love hardcovers.
Re: freedom I did hear chatter about it, witz, 2666, skippy dies and others showing big tomes aren’t dead like some thought
I hate when they’re that new, weird long shape. WHY PUBLISHERS??? WHY?
nah, but why is the artwork always inferior to the pb version? like, shit is allllllways, always.
maybe this should be book throwing/punching week.
i’ll elbow drop ‘moon palace’ if i find a copy…
I wanted to dismiss this comment at first, but the more I think of it, the more I agree, and it perfectly articulates my response thus far (only one day in) to Witz. I believe what you’re touching on is the difference between great writing and writing that is Great.
Hate them hate them HATE them. My nook has been a fucking godsend because I can read my giant hardcover history books on it now.
I hate them even more than I hate mass market paperback. Especially when reading at night; how the hell are you supposed to comfortably read something in hardcover when you’re lying down, especially if it’s +600 pages?
That’s what I’m currently struggling with. Last night I was reading Freedom in bed and it was so frustrating. I could hardly concentrate on the book which itself is underwhelming (though it is still early going).
I’d say its more comfortable to read a hardcover lying down, but I also have big hands.
I really like yr response, Justin. And I agree with you completely. There’s a big distinction between good writing, careful writing, something to be admired but ultimately a known quantity and a book like Witz, which even the harshest hater MUST admit a certain degree of reverence for its breadth and beauty and brilliance.
And Roxane: I love hard cover books. Yes, some of them–such as 2666 or the Original of Laura or even VAS–are hefty, but there is something in the production, in the materiality, that is lost when a book goes from cloth bound to paperback. That being said, I’m not in the financial position to own many hard cover books. Though if I were…
Hmm. Good points, Justin. I’ve only started Freedom and I’m not crazy about it but it is meticulously written and I’m hopeful. That said, I doubt I will be in awe and there is, I think, a distinction between even great books and remarkable books.
I used to feel the same way. Now, I love them, especially deckle-edge. I fucking love deckle-edge
Sorites paradox. How many grains does it take for a heap of sand to turn into a big book?
I’m happy to be reading the pb Infinite Jest; not too much pressure on the gut when lying down and having it propped up. Though the hardback would be nice to minimize spine damage and dog-ear-ing that’s occurring, even with the extra weight it’d bring with it.
I love hardcovers. They’re more durable, they proudly take up a lot of space while saying “Fuck you if you don’t like it”, and they make a great weapon, especially something like Stephen King’s IT. Yet they certainly are a pain in the ass to lug around. I do appreciate a book like Infinite Jest much more in paperback.
i hate cheap hardcovers (i.e. virtually all of the stuff that comes out from major presses), but in my eternal search for books, i’ve encountered some older small(er)-press stuff that is literally perfect and hardback. For example, the Mushinsha-Grossman edition of Rene Char’s Leaves of Hypnos (from the 60s, I believe), felt totally ideal to hold and read, and it would lay flat fine, which is a big reason why most hardback books don’t work for me.
yes to deckle-edge. yes.
Older hardcovers are a different thing entirely
I can’t read hardcovers in any position. Most books that aren’t fairly small paperbacks are a real struggle for me physically, though I do have shaky hands that sometimes just drop stuff of their own accord.
Yeah, I’ve heard a little length chatter. The Instructions likely to cause same said chatter soon.
Also, even with the wrist-related inconvenience, I love hardcovers. My love, though, is more a non-sexual sort of kink. I just love them as objects. I am rarely pragmatic about books.
True Norwegian Deckle Edge! Death to false deckle edge!
m/
I have a hardcover copy of Farragan’s Retreat that is absolutely perfect for this reason.
I’m with you there, my hands don’t work that great either, and when I read lying down my hands and wrists seem to fall asleep. I read best sitting behind the wheel of a car, with the book at rest on the wheel. A parked car.
But I also like to read when I eat, at a table, and hardcovers are terrible for this. I think hardcovers are just for collectors.
When people expressed astonishment at Witz’s length, what they really meant was not “wow, someone can write a book this long” but rather “wow, someone can write a book *like this* that is this long. I think it’s clear to anyone who read either NY’ker excerpt of Freedom how Franzen did it–carefully, deliberately, and page by page by page. The mind that produces such a book may be superior–and the product may be, too–but both product and producer are knowable entities, in a way that the unique combination of sustained vision and achievement that goes into a book like Witz (or Infinite Jest, or etc. etc.) is so astonishing, and so unique, that both the product and the producing-consciousness remain perennially and delightfully uncanny, despite howevermuch familiarity you have with them. People seem to really *love* Freedom, and I have little reason to believe that they are wrong. What I do not see many people expressing w/r/t that novel, is Awe.
What is the commercial logic behind putting out any novel without pre-established mass appeal as a hardcover original? It seems to me like the more you charge for something the fewer people are going to be willing to take a chance on it. (Or are they hoping for library sales?)
That’s a good question. I actively do not want any book of mine to be released in hardcover. I have little say in this, but the feeling is there nonetheless.
i despise hardcovers with all of my being.
I don’t like mass market paperbacks.
I hate when they’re that new, weird long shape. WHY PUBLISHERS??? WHY?
I wanted to dismiss this comment at first, but the more I think of it, the more I agree, and it perfectly articulates my response thus far (only one day in) to Witz. I believe what you’re touching on is the difference between great writing and writing that is Great.
I really like yr response, Justin. And I agree with you completely. There’s a big distinction between good writing, careful writing, something to be admired but ultimately a known quantity and a book like Witz, which even the harshest hater MUST admit a certain degree of reverence for its breadth and beauty and brilliance.
And Roxane: I love hard cover books. Yes, some of them–such as 2666 or the Original of Laura or even VAS–are hefty, but there is something in the production, in the materiality, that is lost when a book goes from cloth bound to paperback. That being said, I’m not in the financial position to own many hard cover books. Though if I were…
Hmm. Good points, Justin. I’ve only started Freedom and I’m not crazy about it but it is meticulously written and I’m hopeful. That said, I doubt I will be in awe and there is, I think, a distinction between even great books and remarkable books.
re: length
I’m addicted to Victorian fiction, so I can address this issue: “it depends.”
Try reading the non-Esther chapters in “Bleak House” and you’ll want to blow out your brains with a blunderbuss.
OTOH, try reading “Middlemarch”–every sentence is perfect and it’s the easiest long read in the history of long reads, ranked number one on my list of Top 10 Long Reads Ever.
what like the shape of scorch atlas and tony oneill’s book? i find that shape really comfy.
“I read best sitting behind the wheel of a car, with the book at rest on the wheel. A parked car. ”
This is a surprisingly fun and comfortable reading position. One of my favorites.
I prefer hardcovers if it’s a book that I want to keep and re-read — the book is often printed on acid-free paper. Paperbacks, even trade paper, are often printed on nasty acid-filled paper that will turn yellow in a couple of years. Paperback typefaces are often too small, making reading them uncomfortable — though type size has improved in the last couple decades (find a copy of Bantam’s mass market Gravity’s Rainbow to see type that will wear hard on any but the youngest eyes).
Whenever I pick up a hardcover (only when I have to: used, in other words . . . or when it’s a new book from Danielewski . . . a conversation for another time): the first thing I do is remove the dust jacket. I hate dustjackets.
But I love good cover art, and I do not like that plain spine. (Luckily: Danielewski arranges hardcover art as well as dustjacket art.)
I’d been predicting for some time that sellers were soon going to get over this idea that “softcover=inferior” . . . and it looks like, once again (ahem), I was right, since I hear that presses and sellers are turning to favor softcover.
The reason I hear: shipping costs.
Hah!
This also becomes critical whenever it comes time for you to move to a new apartment. I’m still aching from moving all my books — nearly all softcover . . . just imagine if they were all hardcover!
I’ve always loved softcover. I’ve loved the feel of it. Especially when the pages are really thin and soft and flex well.
Okay, okay, so it’s been apparent for some time. I mean: for a few years now presses (especially small presses) have been making their first launch in softcover as well as hardcover . . . instead of waiting a year before putting out the mass paperpack. Yeah, yeah, I know, I know.
The point is: I get to say that I was right. This is important for my ego.
xdeckle-edgex
The answer is simple: they’re trying to mess with our heads.
…And get stupid self-appointed blog critics to ask stupid questions like, “Is this really a novel?”
Yup, hate hardbacks, stupid, expensive, not easily portable. It seems so unnecessary. The heft is an annoyance, but the real irritant is that even when a book is deemed not hardback worthy for its first print run, the publishers publish it as a “large format paperback” at hardback prices. Also, ebooks are not appropriately priced, they are priced as hardbacks when the print version is in hb, and when the book shifts to pb the ebook price often remains hb. Tsk.
I generally don’t like hardcovers, but Tom McCarthy’s C completely won me over. It’s got heft *and* give and feels very pleasant in your hands, the cover is unstoppable, and the jacket even billows in its wraparound. And the pages. Oh! The softness! Sweet surrender!
It’s making me rethink hardcovers.