October 30th, 2009 / 1:02 pm
Random

Varieties of Contempt (a guest response from Christian Lorentzen to JC)

Christian Lorentzen sends word post-occasion of Jimmy’s hipster post; via “Varieties of Contempt”:

Would I accept several thousand dollars in exchange for shooting
myself in the kneecap? Yes, and when the bald man asks for my head on
a stake, hand it to him. He didn’t earn his vulgarity, so we had to
mark him a B+. You can blame the 70s, but it was really the 60s. Much
besides your life depends on exhibiting your best behavior in that
brothel. I myself prefer polite mediocrity to rude talent, but there
are plenty of nice restaurants in this city. He’s not a great chef,
he’s a good chef who shined a great chef’s shoes for years. What’s
funny is when they release those studies that show they are reading
less. Wasn’t the first thing we learned in school the fact that
they’re mostly a silly bunch of guys? He must be stopped before I get
slapped with a health-code violation. Mother, may I have a second can
of soda today? No, it will rot your syntax. I feel lonely when I look
in the mirror but not as lonely as I feel when you are here, so just
stretch your toes into the sea. If it demonstrates form, some people
will take an axe to it. Style is the ultimate weapon, and if you can
combine it with authenticity, you’ve got a great scam going. Welcome
to my femininity, and let me tell you about the dental plan. Two
Californians walk into a bar, and a Mississippian tells them their
problem is that they didn’t first love apple pie. I construct
narrative arks, that’s what I do. The crucial hour begins at three in
the morning. He failed to turn his neck as they were coming out of the
shade, so now they’re stuck with each other. I’m sorry about your
baby. The scandal will be good for your health. Look forward to a
cleansing effect. I feel unable to connect with it, so let’s just play
it up really big and make it sell. Hold the center or it will hold
you. Summer’s surprise was a feeling of generalized hatred, like a man
standing over you and threatening your life, or someone who thanks you
for your attention and cites it as a valuable service to the
community. I called it nihilism, and he called it several forms of
negation. You like to say it’s complicated, but actually it’s simple
to the point of crudity. It’s all right, but I wish it was as big as
my ego, which will now take off his shirt. That winter, the worst ever,
all the snowflakes were identical. I gave myself to you but never got
a receipt. Now for the worst moment of your career. Go away, go away.

Tags:

124 Comments

  1. mike young

      i like this

  2. mike young

      i like this

  3. Gian

      Inaugurals. One after the next.

  4. Gian

      Inaugurals. One after the next.

  5. Jimmy Chen

      i have to be honest, this is really good.

  6. Jimmy Chen

      i have to be honest, this is really good.

  7. mike young

      i like this a lot

  8. mike young

      i like this a lot

  9. Mather Schneider

      First question: Is this a poem with deliberate line breaks or prose with narrow margins?

      Second question: What’s he trying to say?

  10. Mather Schneider

      First question: Is this a poem with deliberate line breaks or prose with narrow margins?

      Second question: What’s he trying to say?

  11. alan rossi

      excellent.

  12. alan rossi

      excellent.

  13. Gian

      He has no idea what he’s trying to say. That’s why it’s so good.

  14. Gian

      He has no idea what he’s trying to say. That’s why it’s so good.

  15. mike young

      how come i can google-find a lot of reviews and articles

      but no other examples of christian lorentzen’s poetry on the interwebs?

      i want more christian lorentzen poems

  16. mike young

      how come i can google-find a lot of reviews and articles

      but no other examples of christian lorentzen’s poetry on the interwebs?

      i want more christian lorentzen poems

  17. Blake Butler

      he’s trying to say what he said

  18. Blake Butler

      he’s trying to say what he said

  19. Gian

      That’s the way it should be.

  20. Gian

      That’s the way it should be.

  21. Mather Schneider

      I guess asking what someone is trying to say is a stupid question. Clarity is such an old fashioned notion.

  22. Mather Schneider

      I guess asking what someone is trying to say is a stupid question. Clarity is such an old fashioned notion.

  23. mike young

      “clarity” is not the same thing as “what is he trying to say”

      it’s not Lassie, it’s a poem

  24. mike young

      “clarity” is not the same thing as “what is he trying to say”

      it’s not Lassie, it’s a poem

  25. Matt Cozart

      “it’s not Lassie, it’s a poem” for the win (yeah, i spelled it out)

  26. Matt Cozart

      “it’s not Lassie, it’s a poem” for the win (yeah, i spelled it out)

  27. Mather Schneider

      So, as long as I’m clear about this: no one really knows what this guy is saying? Right? And that is…good?

  28. Mather Schneider

      So, as long as I’m clear about this: no one really knows what this guy is saying? Right? And that is…good?

  29. mike young

      no, you are being silly

      the poem is “saying” different things in every line, if you want to call it that

      1) it is very enjoyable for me to read each line and each linebreak and allow those lines to send me places in my head and to cause feelings in me, and to connect the places i’m sent and the feelings i get as they accumulate

      2) it is enjoyable because often the places and feelings are surprising and exciting

      that is the clearest way i can put it

      the poem is not saying any one thing

      no one is in danger

      heads are tricky

      lassie vs. poem

  30. mike young

      no, you are being silly

      the poem is “saying” different things in every line, if you want to call it that

      1) it is very enjoyable for me to read each line and each linebreak and allow those lines to send me places in my head and to cause feelings in me, and to connect the places i’m sent and the feelings i get as they accumulate

      2) it is enjoyable because often the places and feelings are surprising and exciting

      that is the clearest way i can put it

      the poem is not saying any one thing

      no one is in danger

      heads are tricky

      lassie vs. poem

  31. Mather Schneider

      Well, I disagree. I don’t find anything “surprising” or “exciting” about it. Random juxtaposition is not a wormhole to the excellence. I’m still not sure how lassie figures in, but I do think that conflict or danger are elements that make a poem or story interesting.

  32. Mather Schneider

      Well, I disagree. I don’t find anything “surprising” or “exciting” about it. Random juxtaposition is not a wormhole to the excellence. I’m still not sure how lassie figures in, but I do think that conflict or danger are elements that make a poem or story interesting.

  33. Matt Cozart

      Poetry isn’t a matter of starting with “something to say”, feeding it through the poem-machine, and ending up with a mixed-up version of that original “something”. It does sort of get taught that way in high school, so it’s understandable why people have trouble. Good poems are made up as they go along–I mean, even the ideas are made up as they go along. In the process of writing one line you discover what the next line will be. A constant chain of little discoveries popping like, uh, popcorn, in the brain.

  34. Matt Cozart

      Poetry isn’t a matter of starting with “something to say”, feeding it through the poem-machine, and ending up with a mixed-up version of that original “something”. It does sort of get taught that way in high school, so it’s understandable why people have trouble. Good poems are made up as they go along–I mean, even the ideas are made up as they go along. In the process of writing one line you discover what the next line will be. A constant chain of little discoveries popping like, uh, popcorn, in the brain.

  35. Mather Schneider

      Thanks for that explanation of what poetry is Matt…what teacher taught you this ridiculous theory?

  36. Mather Schneider

      Thanks for that explanation of what poetry is Matt…what teacher taught you this ridiculous theory?

  37. Mather Schneider

      poetry like popcorn…big impact stuff…

  38. Mather Schneider

      poetry like popcorn…big impact stuff…

  39. Matt Cozart

      Nobody, it’s my own ridiculous theory.

  40. Matt Cozart

      Nobody, it’s my own ridiculous theory.

  41. Matt Cozart

      Ok. Not popcorn. Hydrogen bombs. Satisfied?

  42. Matt Cozart

      Ok. Not popcorn. Hydrogen bombs. Satisfied?

  43. Mather Schneider

      Hydrogen bombs that explode like popcorn…no, I am not satisfied…

  44. Mather Schneider

      Hydrogen bombs that explode like popcorn…no, I am not satisfied…

  45. jereme

      i don’t think he has to “say” something in this poem. after something is written, it’s the reader’s burden and no longer the creator’s possession. that’s how i view it at least.

      personally i don’t really dig the poem. i like a few lines in it. most other lines i kind of just shrug my shoulders and think i must be dense or see things differently than the author.

  46. jereme

      i don’t think he has to “say” something in this poem. after something is written, it’s the reader’s burden and no longer the creator’s possession. that’s how i view it at least.

      personally i don’t really dig the poem. i like a few lines in it. most other lines i kind of just shrug my shoulders and think i must be dense or see things differently than the author.

  47. mike young

      Mather, there are many feelings in the world and they don’t have to be loud to be interesting.

      From what I’ve read of your thoughts, there are very few things in the world you seem to think are poems, and then there are even fewer things you think are good poems, and then there are many many more things that people write that they call poems, and some of those things are what other people call good poems.

      Listen: you are going to be bewildered and angry forever if you are waiting for people to admit that they’ve been lying all along about what they like.

      I like this poem.

      There are a lot of poems I don’t like because they are not exciting.

      You might have a lot of namecalling to throw down and a lot of things to say about institutions or authenticity, but none of that has anything to do with me or my feelings toward a poem.

      It would be one thing if I believed you were honestly trying to figure out why people like this poem, and then I would probably say more. But all I sense is scorn. Every time I have replied to you today, I feel as if I’ve had to put a blanket over the sneaky Dumpster fires of your definition hustle. For example, I never said—nor do I feel—there is anything “random” about the arrangement of this poem. I never said “it’s good because it’s random.” If you think it’s random, and if you think so in such a bitter way, then we’re probably unable to communicate at all, at least in this context, so it’s probably better at this point if we don’t.

  48. mike young

      Mather, there are many feelings in the world and they don’t have to be loud to be interesting.

      From what I’ve read of your thoughts, there are very few things in the world you seem to think are poems, and then there are even fewer things you think are good poems, and then there are many many more things that people write that they call poems, and some of those things are what other people call good poems.

      Listen: you are going to be bewildered and angry forever if you are waiting for people to admit that they’ve been lying all along about what they like.

      I like this poem.

      There are a lot of poems I don’t like because they are not exciting.

      You might have a lot of namecalling to throw down and a lot of things to say about institutions or authenticity, but none of that has anything to do with me or my feelings toward a poem.

      It would be one thing if I believed you were honestly trying to figure out why people like this poem, and then I would probably say more. But all I sense is scorn. Every time I have replied to you today, I feel as if I’ve had to put a blanket over the sneaky Dumpster fires of your definition hustle. For example, I never said—nor do I feel—there is anything “random” about the arrangement of this poem. I never said “it’s good because it’s random.” If you think it’s random, and if you think so in such a bitter way, then we’re probably unable to communicate at all, at least in this context, so it’s probably better at this point if we don’t.

  49. ce.

      carpet bombs might be closer.

  50. Mather Schneider

      It’s not your own theory, Matt, it’s an old academic theory. People have been spouting this for decades: that the words and sentences, by ignoring meaning, somehow transport the reader onto some other plane, where linear thought, logic and common sense are rendered obsolete…give me a break…these kind of writers are not privy to any special plain of existence than the rest of us, and the writing is fake, put on and pretentious. It is nothing but a game for people with nothing to say, but think they are showing us a higher view of reality by putting sentences together that don’t seem to belong together. What brilliance and genius in their banal collages! Nobody except a college educated cowlick would write like this or commend writing like this.

  51. ce.

      carpet bombs might be closer.

  52. Mather Schneider

      It’s not your own theory, Matt, it’s an old academic theory. People have been spouting this for decades: that the words and sentences, by ignoring meaning, somehow transport the reader onto some other plane, where linear thought, logic and common sense are rendered obsolete…give me a break…these kind of writers are not privy to any special plain of existence than the rest of us, and the writing is fake, put on and pretentious. It is nothing but a game for people with nothing to say, but think they are showing us a higher view of reality by putting sentences together that don’t seem to belong together. What brilliance and genius in their banal collages! Nobody except a college educated cowlick would write like this or commend writing like this.

  53. mike young

      *blankets, not “a blanket”

  54. mike young

      *blankets, not “a blanket”

  55. ce.

      To be fair, I imagine similar things were said when “The Wasteland” was published. Not that I’m necessarily comparing this to “The Wasteland,” only your sort of critique.

      Like Jereme, I don’t particularly like this as a poem, but certain lines affect me and I’ll take that for what it is, and on the same token, I can also appreciate why other people might like this poem for larger reasons. If it doesn’t affect you, if you don’t like it, fine. No one is saying you have to–nor even that you should. Just that they do. And, when you’ve asked them to elaborate why they do, and they have, you simply shat on their opinion. But granted, some came off at initially patronizing to you, too, so you’re probably just reciprocating. I hate justice.

      Ah, hell. It’s mean week. We should all just get drunk and punchsex. Look into it.

  56. ce.

      To be fair, I imagine similar things were said when “The Wasteland” was published. Not that I’m necessarily comparing this to “The Wasteland,” only your sort of critique.

      Like Jereme, I don’t particularly like this as a poem, but certain lines affect me and I’ll take that for what it is, and on the same token, I can also appreciate why other people might like this poem for larger reasons. If it doesn’t affect you, if you don’t like it, fine. No one is saying you have to–nor even that you should. Just that they do. And, when you’ve asked them to elaborate why they do, and they have, you simply shat on their opinion. But granted, some came off at initially patronizing to you, too, so you’re probably just reciprocating. I hate justice.

      Ah, hell. It’s mean week. We should all just get drunk and punchsex. Look into it.

  57. Mather Schneider

      Sorry, Mike, didn’t mean to ignore you…But when you start talking about lassie, what the hell am I supposed to say to that? I wasn’t even sure if this was a “poem” or just a piece of prose with narrow margins. I guess it’s a poem.

      I am not saying people are lying when they say they like a poem. Where did I say that? It’s great you like this poem. Recommend it for the Pushcart Prize.

      I don’t need to prove to you that I am “honestly trying to figure out why people like this poem”…ha ha…I know why, Mike: because they are gullible and easily fooled by artifice. Sorry if that seems “sneaky” to you. If there’s anybody trying to “put a blanket over the sneaky Dumpster of your definition hustle” it’s Lorentzen.

  58. Mather Schneider

      Sorry, Mike, didn’t mean to ignore you…But when you start talking about lassie, what the hell am I supposed to say to that? I wasn’t even sure if this was a “poem” or just a piece of prose with narrow margins. I guess it’s a poem.

      I am not saying people are lying when they say they like a poem. Where did I say that? It’s great you like this poem. Recommend it for the Pushcart Prize.

      I don’t need to prove to you that I am “honestly trying to figure out why people like this poem”…ha ha…I know why, Mike: because they are gullible and easily fooled by artifice. Sorry if that seems “sneaky” to you. If there’s anybody trying to “put a blanket over the sneaky Dumpster of your definition hustle” it’s Lorentzen.

  59. Tim Jones-Yelvington

      It seems like everybody is discussing this piece without actually discussing it, which makes me want to say something abt the actual text…

      I especially like:

      ~“I myself prefer polite mediocrity to rude talent, but there are plenty of nice restaurants in this city.”
      ~“No, it will rot your syntax.”
      ~“Style is the ultimate weapon, and if you can combine it with authenticity, you’ve got a great scam going.”
      ~“Welcome to my femininity, and let me tell you about the dental plan.”
      ~“It’s all right, but I wish it was as big as my ego, which will now take off his shirt.”

      I like how it’s sort-of digressive yet not.

      I like when the second half of the sentences do something startling (ie, ego… shirt).

      I like reading it as though the sentences build upon one another, then as if they don’t, then as if they do again.

      I don’t know anything abt Lorentzen. Are any of these ‘found’ sentences? Or else cut up or something?

  60. Tim Jones-Yelvington

      It seems like everybody is discussing this piece without actually discussing it, which makes me want to say something abt the actual text…

      I especially like:

      ~“I myself prefer polite mediocrity to rude talent, but there are plenty of nice restaurants in this city.”
      ~“No, it will rot your syntax.”
      ~“Style is the ultimate weapon, and if you can combine it with authenticity, you’ve got a great scam going.”
      ~“Welcome to my femininity, and let me tell you about the dental plan.”
      ~“It’s all right, but I wish it was as big as my ego, which will now take off his shirt.”

      I like how it’s sort-of digressive yet not.

      I like when the second half of the sentences do something startling (ie, ego… shirt).

      I like reading it as though the sentences build upon one another, then as if they don’t, then as if they do again.

      I don’t know anything abt Lorentzen. Are any of these ‘found’ sentences? Or else cut up or something?

  61. rachel

      i think of it more like when you disturb nature inside a human construction, like when you open the door to a gross old shed and the rats scatter, or touch a wall and the moths depart. then you get to see the wall as it has been affected in the absence of your attention.

  62. rachel

      i think of it more like when you disturb nature inside a human construction, like when you open the door to a gross old shed and the rats scatter, or touch a wall and the moths depart. then you get to see the wall as it has been affected in the absence of your attention.

  63. Mather Schneider

      The first sentence was one I found particarly appalling. Preferring polite mediocrity to rude talent is in perfect conformity to the current pc mindset. Unless, of course, the statement was made ironically or sarcastically, which is impossible to tell from such a wishy-washy piece of writing, meaning the author can change his mind depending on who’s asking.

  64. Mather Schneider

      The first sentence was one I found particarly appalling. Preferring polite mediocrity to rude talent is in perfect conformity to the current pc mindset. Unless, of course, the statement was made ironically or sarcastically, which is impossible to tell from such a wishy-washy piece of writing, meaning the author can change his mind depending on who’s asking.

  65. Matt Cozart

      I like that.

  66. Matt Cozart

      I like that.

  67. rachel

      I thought the pc mindset was a myth dreamed up by loud boring people.

  68. Matt Cozart

      Who said anything about ignoring meaning? Words radiate meaning no matter what you do with them.

  69. rachel

      I thought the pc mindset was a myth dreamed up by loud boring people.

  70. Matt Cozart

      Who said anything about ignoring meaning? Words radiate meaning no matter what you do with them.

  71. Matt Cozart

      Yeah, I know, it doesn’t mean it’s always a “good” result, but meaning is there even in bad poems.

  72. Matt Cozart

      Yeah, I know, it doesn’t mean it’s always a “good” result, but meaning is there even in bad poems.

  73. Tim Jones-Yelvington

      The statement is made deliberately in a way that assigns the sentiment to the speaker (I myself), revealing something of him to us. Perhaps because I write fiction, not poetry, I think of this primarily in terms of characterization. “Current pc mindset” is irrelevant, it’s not abt anything cultural or political. And for me, the part about restaurants completely reframes what came before, so that what at first seemed like some grander sentiment about art or something is suddenly about something as mundane as where to go for dinner.

  74. Tim Jones-Yelvington

      The statement is made deliberately in a way that assigns the sentiment to the speaker (I myself), revealing something of him to us. Perhaps because I write fiction, not poetry, I think of this primarily in terms of characterization. “Current pc mindset” is irrelevant, it’s not abt anything cultural or political. And for me, the part about restaurants completely reframes what came before, so that what at first seemed like some grander sentiment about art or something is suddenly about something as mundane as where to go for dinner.

  75. Tim Jones-Yelvington

      (which in my own interpretation makes a delicious mockery of grandiose assertions abt ‘mediocrity’ vs. ‘talent’)

  76. Tim Jones-Yelvington

      (which in my own interpretation makes a delicious mockery of grandiose assertions abt ‘mediocrity’ vs. ‘talent’)

  77. Jordan

      The Waste Land.

      So, Mather, when did you stop writing poetry?

  78. Jordan

      The Waste Land.

      So, Mather, when did you stop writing poetry?

  79. Mather Schneider

      Yeah, Rachel, pc is a myth. Therefore, you are imaginary.

  80. Mather Schneider

      Yeah, Rachel, pc is a myth. Therefore, you are imaginary.

  81. rachel

      Hahaha, what does that mean.

  82. rachel

      Hahaha, what does that mean.

  83. Amelia

      Why are there line breaks if most of the breaks don’t impart any additional meaning to the line? This question is not limited to the work above.

  84. Amelia

      Why are there line breaks if most of the breaks don’t impart any additional meaning to the line? This question is not limited to the work above.

  85. Tim Jones-Yelvington

      Whoah, I didn’t even notice they were line breaks when I read it b/c the lines are long enough it looks like an only slightly narrowly-set paragraph.

  86. Mather Schneider

      I don’t understand that, Jordan. I haven’t stopped. I’m barely getting started.

  87. Tim Jones-Yelvington

      Whoah, I didn’t even notice they were line breaks when I read it b/c the lines are long enough it looks like an only slightly narrowly-set paragraph.

  88. Mather Schneider

      I don’t understand that, Jordan. I haven’t stopped. I’m barely getting started.

  89. Amy McDaniel

      There are lots of reasons for line breaks. Meaning is not the only goal (and also, I’m not sure I agree that these particular line breaks don’t add meaning). There’s also affect. I care a lot about affect. For me, ending the first line on “shooting” builds in a little suspense, a tiny mind gap that makes “myself” more surprising. Line breaks can add emphasis to the words that lines end on. Line breaks also add extra thought groups. Like, normally, thought groups are sentences and clauses, but with line breaks you have the opportunity of more divisions, which causes more opportunities for thought. I think the shape of a poem also lends a certain sense of sound, and breath. There’s so much I don’t know about line breaks. I don’t think all line breaks are the right line breaks. But there are reasons for them.

  90. Mather Schneider

      That’s what I asked originally and never got an answer. Is this a poem or a piece of prose? Apparently nobody knows, which ads mystery to the piece, don’t you see?

  91. Amy McDaniel

      There are lots of reasons for line breaks. Meaning is not the only goal (and also, I’m not sure I agree that these particular line breaks don’t add meaning). There’s also affect. I care a lot about affect. For me, ending the first line on “shooting” builds in a little suspense, a tiny mind gap that makes “myself” more surprising. Line breaks can add emphasis to the words that lines end on. Line breaks also add extra thought groups. Like, normally, thought groups are sentences and clauses, but with line breaks you have the opportunity of more divisions, which causes more opportunities for thought. I think the shape of a poem also lends a certain sense of sound, and breath. There’s so much I don’t know about line breaks. I don’t think all line breaks are the right line breaks. But there are reasons for them.

  92. Mather Schneider

      That’s what I asked originally and never got an answer. Is this a poem or a piece of prose? Apparently nobody knows, which ads mystery to the piece, don’t you see?

  93. Blake Butler

      with great writing there is no difference between poetry and prose. hence, no answer.

  94. Blake Butler

      with great writing there is no difference between poetry and prose. hence, no answer.

  95. Mather Schneider

      Oh, now it’s “great writing”….ha ha…my guess it was written as prose with the line breaks dictated by the margins. But Blake’s right, it makes no difference…

  96. Mather Schneider

      Oh, now it’s “great writing”….ha ha…my guess it was written as prose with the line breaks dictated by the margins. But Blake’s right, it makes no difference…

  97. rachel

      How about:

      if you’re talented then being talented is easy, while being polite is hard because you have to either not know or deny or forget the fact that you’re talented (hard) or decide that being talented is ever irrelevant (harder). And if you’re untalented then being talented is impossible, so all you can do is be polite, which is still hard. So basically he is praising effort above that which is cool and all but outside human agency or IN OTHER WORDS he praises that which benefits from praise and doesn’t praise that which doesn’t benefit from praise, as Jimmy Chen reminded us earlier, and what’s wrong with doing that.

  98. rachel

      How about:

      if you’re talented then being talented is easy, while being polite is hard because you have to either not know or deny or forget the fact that you’re talented (hard) or decide that being talented is ever irrelevant (harder). And if you’re untalented then being talented is impossible, so all you can do is be polite, which is still hard. So basically he is praising effort above that which is cool and all but outside human agency or IN OTHER WORDS he praises that which benefits from praise and doesn’t praise that which doesn’t benefit from praise, as Jimmy Chen reminded us earlier, and what’s wrong with doing that.

  99. Amelia

      Hi Amy. I get what you’re saying, and you care about line breaks so we’re on the same team. And I don’t mean to say that none of the above imparts meaning (the lines ending in “shooting” “Welcome” “simple” and “man” are my favorites). But much seems accidental or awkward. “The crucial hour begins at three in / the morning.” “What’s / funny is when”. This reads like a strong piece of prose and I wonder what it means for poetry when perfectly good prose is put into lines. I wonder this sometimes about James Tate too. Maybe I’m grumpy and the battle I’m fighting is stupid. But if we’re calling it poetry I want a microscope on every syllable and a rationale behind every break.

  100. Amelia

      Hi Amy. I get what you’re saying, and you care about line breaks so we’re on the same team. And I don’t mean to say that none of the above imparts meaning (the lines ending in “shooting” “Welcome” “simple” and “man” are my favorites). But much seems accidental or awkward. “The crucial hour begins at three in / the morning.” “What’s / funny is when”. This reads like a strong piece of prose and I wonder what it means for poetry when perfectly good prose is put into lines. I wonder this sometimes about James Tate too. Maybe I’m grumpy and the battle I’m fighting is stupid. But if we’re calling it poetry I want a microscope on every syllable and a rationale behind every break.

  101. Amelia

      Maybe it’s not intentional! It does look broken like an email can get broken. I wonder.

  102. Amelia

      Maybe it’s not intentional! It does look broken like an email can get broken. I wonder.

  103. Amy McDaniel

      Hey Amelia, atlanta misses you. You’re fighting a good battle. I agree that this has some awkward breaks. But it’s hard! Like, if I’m dealing with a piece, and there are some great opportunities for breaks, then it seems to make the most sense to line break the whole thing, I guess just for the look of it. Sometimes something isn’t quite working for me, and I make some hard returns and it comes together, but I don’t know why. I definitely don’t think everything has to have a manifest rationale–some choices just feel right, and I think that’s okay for poetry or prose.

  104. Amy McDaniel

      Hey Amelia, atlanta misses you. You’re fighting a good battle. I agree that this has some awkward breaks. But it’s hard! Like, if I’m dealing with a piece, and there are some great opportunities for breaks, then it seems to make the most sense to line break the whole thing, I guess just for the look of it. Sometimes something isn’t quite working for me, and I make some hard returns and it comes together, but I don’t know why. I definitely don’t think everything has to have a manifest rationale–some choices just feel right, and I think that’s okay for poetry or prose.

  105. Tim Jones-Yelvington

      I just clicked on Lorenzen’s name above, saw the TONY article, and suddenly the relationship between this and Jimmy’s post makes way more sense.

      duh. dumbfuck.

  106. Tim Jones-Yelvington

      I just clicked on Lorenzen’s name above, saw the TONY article, and suddenly the relationship between this and Jimmy’s post makes way more sense.

      duh. dumbfuck.

  107. joseph

      a thing saying nothing at all is fun sometimes but not when it’s presented as a response to another that did say something.

      It’s like when magazines, for seeming lack of imagination, send out calls for work in response to M.C. Escher’s “Waterfall” or whatever the hell, and the issue comes out and the poems read

      “Springtime is superflous in the natuaral order of blatant maternity”

      and not

      “Fuck M.C. Escher’s Waterfall”

      and you sit there and you think what?

  108. joseph

      a thing saying nothing at all is fun sometimes but not when it’s presented as a response to another that did say something.

      It’s like when magazines, for seeming lack of imagination, send out calls for work in response to M.C. Escher’s “Waterfall” or whatever the hell, and the issue comes out and the poems read

      “Springtime is superflous in the natuaral order of blatant maternity”

      and not

      “Fuck M.C. Escher’s Waterfall”

      and you sit there and you think what?

  109. Blake Butler

      looking back at the email, Christian’s note to me above it was also broken in the same way. so they may well have been incidental. they may not. in the mail he called it ‘kind of a half-ass disjunctive prose poem’

  110. Blake Butler

      looking back at the email, Christian’s note to me above it was also broken in the same way. so they may well have been incidental. they may not. in the mail he called it ‘kind of a half-ass disjunctive prose poem’

  111. Amelia

      Well at least he knows

      (Amy, why not break some lines and keep others in paragraphs in the same piece? Let’s sit on a porch sometime.)

  112. Amelia

      Well at least he knows

      (Amy, why not break some lines and keep others in paragraphs in the same piece? Let’s sit on a porch sometime.)

  113. rachel

      I think those breaks you mentioned are defensible.

      “three in/ the morning”: this break allows the line to begin and end with “n,” a nasal stop, so that a sonic narrative is created, appropriate to a discussion of creating narratives. Also, it allows “the morning” to begin the next line, or what visually looks like the inside of the line, which reinforces the thought as well as creating an echo– which reinforces the idea of being inside something– and forces you to process the events which follow as being inextricable from the idea of their occurring in the morning.

      “what’s/ funny is when”: this is a funny break. It turns “funny” from a description into a state, which makes sense because you the reader are reading a description of a report– which by its description we must assume has also been read, by someone– that explains that people are reading. So we are reading about someone reading about how people read, humor is the self-implicating recognition of the absurd, this isn’t a scenario describing one thing that is funny out of many things, this is a scenario which describes every funny thing, the thing of funniness itself. Funny.

  114. Blake Butler

      some of my favorite things are to do the full graphs with line breaks all of a sudden out of nowhere, just like boom. i likes dat

  115. rachel

      I think those breaks you mentioned are defensible.

      “three in/ the morning”: this break allows the line to begin and end with “n,” a nasal stop, so that a sonic narrative is created, appropriate to a discussion of creating narratives. Also, it allows “the morning” to begin the next line, or what visually looks like the inside of the line, which reinforces the thought as well as creating an echo– which reinforces the idea of being inside something– and forces you to process the events which follow as being inextricable from the idea of their occurring in the morning.

      “what’s/ funny is when”: this is a funny break. It turns “funny” from a description into a state, which makes sense because you the reader are reading a description of a report– which by its description we must assume has also been read, by someone– that explains that people are reading. So we are reading about someone reading about how people read, humor is the self-implicating recognition of the absurd, this isn’t a scenario describing one thing that is funny out of many things, this is a scenario which describes every funny thing, the thing of funniness itself. Funny.

  116. Blake Butler

      some of my favorite things are to do the full graphs with line breaks all of a sudden out of nowhere, just like boom. i likes dat

  117. joseph

      also, does anyone know why n+1 is so fascinated with that shit?

  118. joseph

      also, does anyone know why n+1 is so fascinated with that shit?

  119. Amy McDaniel

      yeah, i like to do that. i like to do an all-prose poem with just one line break. other times i like lines of somewhat even length even if some breaks are weaker than others. i love porches and sitting and summer friends.

  120. Amy McDaniel

      yeah, i like to do that. i like to do an all-prose poem with just one line break. other times i like lines of somewhat even length even if some breaks are weaker than others. i love porches and sitting and summer friends.

  121. Amelia

      Thank you rachel, I appreciate the defense

  122. Amelia

      Thank you rachel, I appreciate the defense

  123. Do Elliker

      I completely agree with your choices – isn’t that odd?
      Also the last line about The worst winter and snowflakes being identical.

  124. Do Elliker

      I completely agree with your choices – isn’t that odd?
      Also the last line about The worst winter and snowflakes being identical.