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October 8th, 2009 / 10:38 pm Justin Taylor—

Ken, with all due respect I can’t believe you’re giving Choire Sicha and co. the benefit of the doubt over Mark Greif. The very first sentence of Greif’s essay, “Gays are our utopian heroes” establishes a definitive context in which to understand the argument that follows. Sicha and Scocca both ignore (or just don’t understand) the actual premise of his essay. If you read the actual article, and consider it on its own terms, I think you’ll find it rather more difficult to discount.

October 8th, 2009 / 6:38 pm Justin Taylor—

Ken, with all due respect I can’t believe you’re giving Choire Sicha and co. the benefit of the doubt over Mark Greif. The very first sentence of Greif’s essay, “Gays are our utopian heroes” establishes a definitive context in which to understand the argument that follows. Sicha and Scocca both ignore (or just don’t understand) the actual premise of his essay. If you read the actual article, and consider it on its own terms, I think you’ll find it rather more difficult to discount.

October 9th, 2009 / 12:39 am chris—

Funniest quote of the year.

October 9th, 2009 / 12:57 am christian—

i don’t know — the premise was interesting and the article started out well, but by the end it seemed like something out of a bad woody allen movie (interiors, maybe), and greif ended up sounding like the creepy 30-something trying to chat up the drunk 20-something at the bar.

scocca’s comments weren’t real criticism, but they were pretty funny.

that said, i disagree with the comment about nplusone overall, and i think greif has written some good stuff.

full disclosure (because i got called out one time for defending a friend on here): i’m friends with some nplusone folks, but not greif.

i wish my parents had named me mark greif.

October 8th, 2009 / 8:57 pm christian—

i don’t know — the premise was interesting and the article started out well, but by the end it seemed like something out of a bad woody allen movie (interiors, maybe), and greif ended up sounding like the creepy 30-something trying to chat up the drunk 20-something at the bar.

scocca’s comments weren’t real criticism, but they were pretty funny.

that said, i disagree with the comment about nplusone overall, and i think greif has written some good stuff.

full disclosure (because i got called out one time for defending a friend on here): i’m friends with some nplusone folks, but not greif.

i wish my parents had named me mark greif.

October 9th, 2009 / 1:00 am Ken Baumann—

I’m not; sorry, I shoulda put some sort of disclaimer. I actually think the essay is fascinating & pretty well-formed (I’ve got my problems with it). But Choire and co. are funny and right on, I think, in quite a few ripostes.

The quote made me LOL buckets.