January 20th, 2010 / 2:45 pm
Snippets
Snippets
Lily Hoang—
“writers” who don’t actively write shouldn’t call themselves “writers.” true or false?
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Meta
Sure, let them. But only if we can call ourselves pilots or senators whenever we like.
Sure, let them. But only if we can call ourselves pilots or senators whenever we like.
Dumb question.
Dumb question.
Do you worry it’s going to undermine your status as a writer? How much writing is “active writing”? Isn’t thinking about writing part of writing? Etc.
But the most helpful writerly quote in my life goes something along the lines of, “If your intention to write does not result in actual writing, then your intention is not to write.”
Do you worry it’s going to undermine your status as a writer? How much writing is “active writing”? Isn’t thinking about writing part of writing? Etc.
But the most helpful writerly quote in my life goes something along the lines of, “If your intention to write does not result in actual writing, then your intention is not to write.”
whatever it is that you call yourself has little to no bearing on what you actually do, and it’s what you actually do that actually matters.
whatever it is that you call yourself has little to no bearing on what you actually do, and it’s what you actually do that actually matters.
mather: the technical question was true or false, which is arguably always a dumb question.
summer: no, i’m not worried about my “status” as a writer. it just pisses me off when people who claim to be writers complain about how non-productive they are, rather than spending their time actually writing. producing one short story every two or three years doesn’t make you a writer, at least not in my opinion.
mather: the technical question was true or false, which is arguably always a dumb question.
summer: no, i’m not worried about my “status” as a writer. it just pisses me off when people who claim to be writers complain about how non-productive they are, rather than spending their time actually writing. producing one short story every two or three years doesn’t make you a writer, at least not in my opinion.
duh
duh
You are not a marathoner if you walk a marathon, want to clear that up.
You are not a marathoner if you walk a marathon, want to clear that up.
does writing 365 piece of shit stories a year make you a writer then? your logic baffles me. someone better alert j.d.
does writing 365 piece of shit stories a year make you a writer then? your logic baffles me. someone better alert j.d.
gary lutz writes one story a year
gary lutz writes one story a year
ultimately no one should call themselves a writer. or everybody should.
ultimately no one should call themselves a writer. or everybody should.
i didn’t say that writing a lot (shit or not) makes you a writer.
i didn’t say that writing a lot (shit or not) makes you a writer.
i bow to both these comments.
i bow to both these comments.
I love America! Number one fan! I come here and I work at pet store and I am writer too! Tom Cruise, Dallas Cowboys, Chicken McNugget, Oprah, Dance to the Stars, Obama! Be anything you can be! Everyone is writer!
i actually have a lot of problems with productivity and am unable to produce more than a few stories a year. i haven’t written a short story in going on 8 months now. i tweak things for years sometimes. it took me 6 years to write a 75k word book.
the thing is, i am always thinking about my writing. so i guess i’m just a thinker. or maybe just some person who appears bored on the surface all the time, but who is really all tied up in knots on the inside.
I love America! Number one fan! I come here and I work at pet store and I am writer too! Tom Cruise, Dallas Cowboys, Chicken McNugget, Oprah, Dance to the Stars, Obama! Be anything you can be! Everyone is writer!
i actually have a lot of problems with productivity and am unable to produce more than a few stories a year. i haven’t written a short story in going on 8 months now. i tweak things for years sometimes. it took me 6 years to write a 75k word book.
the thing is, i am always thinking about my writing. so i guess i’m just a thinker. or maybe just some person who appears bored on the surface all the time, but who is really all tied up in knots on the inside.
This is a dumb question. How exactly then should we measure who is qualified to classify themselves as a writer? One published book or two? Five short stories published in top-tier print journals or two or three in online blogs? What about your neighbor’s teenage son who writes every day but posts his novel on his livejournal account? Is he a writer too? Does he meet up with your standards?
The process of writing is different for everyone as well as a person’s trajectory. Rather than debating who is worthy of the label, I’d rather spend my time doing something actively more useful–which is writing.
This is a dumb question. How exactly then should we measure who is qualified to classify themselves as a writer? One published book or two? Five short stories published in top-tier print journals or two or three in online blogs? What about your neighbor’s teenage son who writes every day but posts his novel on his livejournal account? Is he a writer too? Does he meet up with your standards?
The process of writing is different for everyone as well as a person’s trajectory. Rather than debating who is worthy of the label, I’d rather spend my time doing something actively more useful–which is writing.
if i’m dead can i still be considered a person?
if i’m dead can i still be considered a person?
yes to the first, no to the second
You should probably get ahold of some of the Biggest Loser contestants.
yes to the first, no to the second
You should probably get ahold of some of the Biggest Loser contestants.
I feel this.
I feel this.
true. doesn’t bother me, anyway. i don’t need to police someone’s aspirations, troubles etc.
true. doesn’t bother me, anyway. i don’t need to police someone’s aspirations, troubles etc.
oops, i mean false.
oops, i mean false.
Most people write something (a list, a spreadsheet, a comment on a posting that is longer than the original post) almost every day. Does this make all of them writers? Are you only a writer when you are in the process of writing?
Most people write something (a list, a spreadsheet, a comment on a posting that is longer than the original post) almost every day. Does this make all of them writers? Are you only a writer when you are in the process of writing?
It’s real simple. If you don’t write, you’re not a writer. I don’t practice law, therefore, I am not a lawyer. If I were to tell someone that I was a lawyer I would be a liar. You are what you do. If you teach all day every day, then you are a teacher. You might tell yourself that you are really a filmmaker, but the facts would prove you wrong.
It’s real simple. If you don’t write, you’re not a writer. I don’t practice law, therefore, I am not a lawyer. If I were to tell someone that I was a lawyer I would be a liar. You are what you do. If you teach all day every day, then you are a teacher. You might tell yourself that you are really a filmmaker, but the facts would prove you wrong.
What does make you a writer though? We all do lots of activities every day, but we don’t call ourselves cooks, basketball players, dental hygienists, etc.
What does make you a writer though? We all do lots of activities every day, but we don’t call ourselves cooks, basketball players, dental hygienists, etc.
i think as long as you finish the marathon before it ends, you’re a marathoner.
i think as long as you finish the marathon before it ends, you’re a marathoner.
i like that. i am not a marathoner, which makes me appreciate it even more.
i like that. i am not a marathoner, which makes me appreciate it even more.
Call yourself a writer and more power to you. Or not and be happy. I don’t really have a career path, more like a career choose your own adventure plot. So lord only knows what I’d call myself. ADD, I guess.
Call yourself a writer and more power to you. Or not and be happy. I don’t really have a career path, more like a career choose your own adventure plot. So lord only knows what I’d call myself. ADD, I guess.
uh oh. looks like everyone is leaning towards a functional definition of meaning. [dramatic music here]
i do lots of things like chop parsley but i don’t introduce myself at parties as a parsley chopper (nor as a writer unless the party is full of dancers and then it’s funny to see them so confused). it seems to me that there has to be something more at stake. and there’s no reason for people who don’t write obsessively to not have this thing at stake (people have slumps or their favorite pens have been discontinued or the e on the keyboard sticks). what is this thing at stake after all? that seems to be the important question.
on a side note, robert walser stopped writing when he went to Insane Asylum #2 but at times identifies himself as a writer in his walks with Seelig, even though he hasn’t written anything in years. does he lose his membership to the Party of Writers?
the only thing that makes me sad is when people say they want to write but ‘never find the time.’ there i feel like, if i really wanted to chop parsley, i would find some f’in time, even a few minutes, to lay into it. but i digress…
by the way DAVID PEAK, your blog rules.
nope
uh oh. looks like everyone is leaning towards a functional definition of meaning. [dramatic music here]
i do lots of things like chop parsley but i don’t introduce myself at parties as a parsley chopper (nor as a writer unless the party is full of dancers and then it’s funny to see them so confused). it seems to me that there has to be something more at stake. and there’s no reason for people who don’t write obsessively to not have this thing at stake (people have slumps or their favorite pens have been discontinued or the e on the keyboard sticks). what is this thing at stake after all? that seems to be the important question.
on a side note, robert walser stopped writing when he went to Insane Asylum #2 but at times identifies himself as a writer in his walks with Seelig, even though he hasn’t written anything in years. does he lose his membership to the Party of Writers?
the only thing that makes me sad is when people say they want to write but ‘never find the time.’ there i feel like, if i really wanted to chop parsley, i would find some f’in time, even a few minutes, to lay into it. but i digress…
by the way DAVID PEAK, your blog rules.
nope
There’s that hokey motivational poster that says, “If it means enough to you, you’ll find a way. If it doesn’t, you’ll find an excuse.”
But you know. Yeah.
There’s that hokey motivational poster that says, “If it means enough to you, you’ll find a way. If it doesn’t, you’ll find an excuse.”
But you know. Yeah.
How passionate you are about what you do, maybe. Like I cook almost daily but I’m not particularly passionate about it, I’m just doing it so I have food. Similar to the examples about comments on the internet or grocery lists or whatever, sure that’s writing but it’s not writing you really care about.
Or maybe “care about” and “passionate” are the wrong words, because people can get pretty fired up over comments on the internet. Something more like “care” in the meticulous sense?
There’s a probably counter argument about people who care strongly about really bad writing, but I guess that just makes them *bad* writers.
I don’t know, what do you think?
How passionate you are about what you do, maybe. Like I cook almost daily but I’m not particularly passionate about it, I’m just doing it so I have food. Similar to the examples about comments on the internet or grocery lists or whatever, sure that’s writing but it’s not writing you really care about.
Or maybe “care about” and “passionate” are the wrong words, because people can get pretty fired up over comments on the internet. Something more like “care” in the meticulous sense?
There’s a probably counter argument about people who care strongly about really bad writing, but I guess that just makes them *bad* writers.
I don’t know, what do you think?
For the record, I had this look on my face when I read this question:
http://www.umbc.edu/blogs/changingaging/no-country-for-old-men-4.jpg
For the record, I had this look on my face when I read this question:
http://www.umbc.edu/blogs/changingaging/no-country-for-old-men-4.jpg
No wait, this is wrong because it makes it sound like the only qualification is the amount of time you spend on it.
Fuck.
thank you for this!
Judge, I’d like to present exhibits A-C:
http://greed.net78.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/failure.jpg
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/gallery/inspiration/Failure.jpg
http://www.humorhound.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/who-wants-to-be-a-millionaire-failure-demotivational-poster.jpg
Yes!
No wait, this is wrong because it makes it sound like the only qualification is the amount of time you spend on it.
Fuck.
thank you for this!
Judge, I’d like to present exhibits A-C:
http://greed.net78.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/failure.jpg
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/gallery/inspiration/Failure.jpg
http://www.humorhound.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/who-wants-to-be-a-millionaire-failure-demotivational-poster.jpg
Yes!
I passively write, like, all the time.
Excellent examples. I vote A.
I passively write, like, all the time.
Excellent examples. I vote A.
i cringe at the word ‘writer’. what do you say instead? do you say anything?
i cringe at the word ‘writer’. what do you say instead? do you say anything?
Ha. Of course. It’s a pretty classic capture.
Ha. Of course. It’s a pretty classic capture.
i don’t ever understand the need to identify oneself through vocation or sexual preference or any sort of like/dislike.
i am me.
it is silly and egotistical to go around telling people “hi, i’m jereme dean. i’m a writer.”, or “hi, i’m jereme dean. i’m a homosexual.”, or etc. Really what I am doing as a human being is saying i identify with a certain mindset and want to be included in your group of like-minded individuals.
i am not like minded whatsoever.
i rather carry the dogma of jereme than the dogma of X group i guess.
i don’t ever understand the need to identify oneself through vocation or sexual preference or any sort of like/dislike.
i am me.
it is silly and egotistical to go around telling people “hi, i’m jereme dean. i’m a writer.”, or “hi, i’m jereme dean. i’m a homosexual.”, or etc. Really what I am doing as a human being is saying i identify with a certain mindset and want to be included in your group of like-minded individuals.
i am not like minded whatsoever.
i rather carry the dogma of jereme than the dogma of X group i guess.
it’s a matter of idenity.
it’s a matter of idenity.
imaginer
imaginer
If ‘writer’ is short for ‘writer artist’, or some such horrible phrase, rather than covering the whole realm of scrawl and tippy-tappy, then you do have to attempt some actual writing for the descriptor to be active. Productivity, whether – and where – you’re published, critical reception, self-valuation (up or down) are all irrelevant. If you write one story as good as – say – The Sealed Angel by Nikolai Leskov and then burn it in a febrile rage at the pointlessness of everything then you’re still a writer.
A freak but a writer nonetheless.
If ‘writer’ is short for ‘writer artist’, or some such horrible phrase, rather than covering the whole realm of scrawl and tippy-tappy, then you do have to attempt some actual writing for the descriptor to be active. Productivity, whether – and where – you’re published, critical reception, self-valuation (up or down) are all irrelevant. If you write one story as good as – say – The Sealed Angel by Nikolai Leskov and then burn it in a febrile rage at the pointlessness of everything then you’re still a writer.
A freak but a writer nonetheless.
Writing is passively done by you.
Writing is passively done by you.
person
person
lawlz
lawlz
“i write.”
“i write.”
seems the point lily was trying to make is getting lost? maybe a different question is: if someone is so unproductive at something at what point do they cease being someone who does that thing. like i could say i’m an incredibly unproductive superhero. writing is maybe unique in that you can sort of do it and not do it and take months off and let ideas percolate, everyone’s process is different, everyone has different expectations as to their output. some people are occupied as writers some people just write. nothing is lumpable.
seems the point lily was trying to make is getting lost? maybe a different question is: if someone is so unproductive at something at what point do they cease being someone who does that thing. like i could say i’m an incredibly unproductive superhero. writing is maybe unique in that you can sort of do it and not do it and take months off and let ideas percolate, everyone’s process is different, everyone has different expectations as to their output. some people are occupied as writers some people just write. nothing is lumpable.
“There are few events which don’t leave a written trace at least. At one time or another, almost everything passes through a sheet of paper, the page of a notebook, or of a diary, or some other chance support (a Metro ticket, the margin of a newspaper, a cigarette packet, the back of an envelope, etc.) on which, at varying speeds and by a different technique depending on the place, time or mood, one or another of the miscellaneous elements that comprise the everydayness of life come to be inscribed”
–Georges Perec, “The Page”
“There are few events which don’t leave a written trace at least. At one time or another, almost everything passes through a sheet of paper, the page of a notebook, or of a diary, or some other chance support (a Metro ticket, the margin of a newspaper, a cigarette packet, the back of an envelope, etc.) on which, at varying speeds and by a different technique depending on the place, time or mood, one or another of the miscellaneous elements that comprise the everydayness of life come to be inscribed”
–Georges Perec, “The Page”
thank you, shane.
that sort of convinces me that maybe i should stop deleting portions of my archives when i’m bored.
thank you, shane.
that sort of convinces me that maybe i should stop deleting portions of my archives when i’m bored.
but only sorta????
but only sorta????
i cook every day but i don’t go around telling people i’m a cook, nor a breather, nor a writer, because who cares, everyone writes, even if they don’t write stories or poems or whatever, who cares, most people i know who say they are writers don’t have anything to show when i ask to read their work, or else they are working on a novel that does not exist, i stepped on a dog turd the other day but i’m not a dog walker, i substitute teach but i’m not a teacher, i have sex but i’m not a porn star, maybe i should get a video camera, i’m going to go read a book now
i cook every day but i don’t go around telling people i’m a cook, nor a breather, nor a writer, because who cares, everyone writes, even if they don’t write stories or poems or whatever, who cares, most people i know who say they are writers don’t have anything to show when i ask to read their work, or else they are working on a novel that does not exist, i stepped on a dog turd the other day but i’m not a dog walker, i substitute teach but i’m not a teacher, i have sex but i’m not a porn star, maybe i should get a video camera, i’m going to go read a book now
reynard wins
reynard wins
i will stop deleting my archives
i will stop deleting my archives
I like this entry and writings here.
I like this entry and writings here.
win.
win.
isn’t the distinction between professional and amateur? being a professional generally means that one’s paid for one’s work, but it can also mean more than that — much more. it can mean, for example, that you hew to a particular set of standards in your work, that your work is performed for a particular set of objectives, that the standards and objectives are informed by a particular set of values and traditions, and that in pursuing the standards, objectives, and values you perform your work according to particular procedures and with particular tools.
isn’t the distinction between professional and amateur? being a professional generally means that one’s paid for one’s work, but it can also mean more than that — much more. it can mean, for example, that you hew to a particular set of standards in your work, that your work is performed for a particular set of objectives, that the standards and objectives are informed by a particular set of values and traditions, and that in pursuing the standards, objectives, and values you perform your work according to particular procedures and with particular tools.
Well, I guess it depends on the context. Are you talking about what you do for a LIVING? I wonder how many of us here can LIVE off our earnings as a writer, solely. You add in teaching, so you’d be a teacher, that’s another part of your income and identity. Maybe you’re an editor too. Most us have day jobs too.
If you have written a story or stories and/or have written a novel I’d say you could call yourself a writer. You might want to publish some things to really give it some weight.
Writer
Teacher
Editor
Art Director
I’ve published some stories, online and in print. I have been paid, now and then for it too. I have a novel coming out soon. But while I may like to THINK of myself as a writer, I probably wouldn’t be really comfortable calling myself a writer unless it was taking up a large portion of my life, most of it.
You don’t have to write every day to be a writer. Some of us write every day, some every other day on average, some in one giant spurt once a month. I think we all know the truths in our hearts whether writing is our hobby, an interest, a passion, or a career.
Maybe someday I’ll be a “writer”. For now, I simply write. And cross my fingers. And try not to suck too much.
Well, I guess it depends on the context. Are you talking about what you do for a LIVING? I wonder how many of us here can LIVE off our earnings as a writer, solely. You add in teaching, so you’d be a teacher, that’s another part of your income and identity. Maybe you’re an editor too. Most us have day jobs too.
If you have written a story or stories and/or have written a novel I’d say you could call yourself a writer. You might want to publish some things to really give it some weight.
Writer
Teacher
Editor
Art Director
I’ve published some stories, online and in print. I have been paid, now and then for it too. I have a novel coming out soon. But while I may like to THINK of myself as a writer, I probably wouldn’t be really comfortable calling myself a writer unless it was taking up a large portion of my life, most of it.
You don’t have to write every day to be a writer. Some of us write every day, some every other day on average, some in one giant spurt once a month. I think we all know the truths in our hearts whether writing is our hobby, an interest, a passion, or a career.
Maybe someday I’ll be a “writer”. For now, I simply write. And cross my fingers. And try not to suck too much.
“I lay pipe.”
“I lay pipe.”
I call myself a writer. There’s no bullshit behind it. It’s a term of convenience, just like woman, mom, Irish.
Who was it (I feel like it was Frost?) who had the fan come up to him at a reading and call himself a writer and Frost dismissed him saying “writer” isn’t a title given to oneself?
I call myself a writer. There’s no bullshit behind it. It’s a term of convenience, just like woman, mom, Irish.
Who was it (I feel like it was Frost?) who had the fan come up to him at a reading and call himself a writer and Frost dismissed him saying “writer” isn’t a title given to oneself?
i want to write a post that says how lame it is not to call yourself a writer when you’re a writer b/c it’s an easy cop out like not to stand up and say what you do like it’s much easier to be self loathing and deprecating then to claim some ownership of what you do and what you love but i’m too lazy to write that post.
i want to write a post that says how lame it is not to call yourself a writer when you’re a writer b/c it’s an easy cop out like not to stand up and say what you do like it’s much easier to be self loathing and deprecating then to claim some ownership of what you do and what you love but i’m too lazy to write that post.
why is not calling yourself a writer automatically ‘self loathing’?
i like writing. i also don’t privilege the act in my presentation of self to others more than other things i also like
why is not calling yourself a writer automatically ‘self loathing’?
i like writing. i also don’t privilege the act in my presentation of self to others more than other things i also like
it’s not, automatically. but i see it as rampamt, as a motivating force behind so much of the handwringing i see here or elsewhere. in any case, i privilege it myself. b/c if i spend that much time doing it and thinking about it and talking about it it’s already privileged. and if i talk to a painter it’s pretty cool when she privleges that too b/c then i get to hear all about painting, which i really like talking and thinking about too. it’s really about that thing you’d rather do than anything. like write, or drink.
it’s not, automatically. but i see it as rampamt, as a motivating force behind so much of the handwringing i see here or elsewhere. in any case, i privilege it myself. b/c if i spend that much time doing it and thinking about it and talking about it it’s already privileged. and if i talk to a painter it’s pretty cool when she privleges that too b/c then i get to hear all about painting, which i really like talking and thinking about too. it’s really about that thing you’d rather do than anything. like write, or drink.
its not self loathing, its just a feeling of not wanting one’s identity boxed in such a singular way. its self opening. jereme said up there, say ‘i write’ instead of ‘i am a writer.’ its truer and cleaner.
why is it a “cop out” to “not stand up” ?
the term is a matter of identity. maybe the loathing has to do with that identity.
why is it preferred to state “i’m a writer.”, and not simply “i write.”, when asked?
i guess i see no good out of it but you are saying there is.
when people ask me what i do for a living i say “i work with computers.”, because that is what i do. i know if i were to say “i’m a software programmer/engineer”, which isn’t true, that that title, that grouping of words, will label me and project a certain type of stereotypical image.
i am not a stereotype.
now if you use the term to find other like-minded individuals, good for you. i am happy you have found like-minded individuals and safety. good job.
the same labeling occurs with VEGANS, BUTT-ROCKERS, RASTA, etc. group.
it is a way to say “i am the stereotype. my identity is this stereotype. i find safety in others that are like me.”
i dunno the more i think about i think it is self-loathing to call oneself “writer”.
just introduce yourself as “hi i am common.”, and you can identify with everyone and feel good about life.
its not self loathing, its just a feeling of not wanting one’s identity boxed in such a singular way. its self opening. jereme said up there, say ‘i write’ instead of ‘i am a writer.’ its truer and cleaner.
why is it a “cop out” to “not stand up” ?
the term is a matter of identity. maybe the loathing has to do with that identity.
why is it preferred to state “i’m a writer.”, and not simply “i write.”, when asked?
i guess i see no good out of it but you are saying there is.
when people ask me what i do for a living i say “i work with computers.”, because that is what i do. i know if i were to say “i’m a software programmer/engineer”, which isn’t true, that that title, that grouping of words, will label me and project a certain type of stereotypical image.
i am not a stereotype.
now if you use the term to find other like-minded individuals, good for you. i am happy you have found like-minded individuals and safety. good job.
the same labeling occurs with VEGANS, BUTT-ROCKERS, RASTA, etc. group.
it is a way to say “i am the stereotype. my identity is this stereotype. i find safety in others that are like me.”
i dunno the more i think about i think it is self-loathing to call oneself “writer”.
just introduce yourself as “hi i am common.”, and you can identify with everyone and feel good about life.
but see therein lies the problem. because it is the writing itself that is worth doing. talking about it, except in very personal and private manners, is something i’d rather avoid most times like the plague.
reading, on the other hand, is awesome. i’ll talk about that all day.
when people ask from now on, i’m a reader. that’s a much more noble pursuit anyway, if you ask me.
but see therein lies the problem. because it is the writing itself that is worth doing. talking about it, except in very personal and private manners, is something i’d rather avoid most times like the plague.
reading, on the other hand, is awesome. i’ll talk about that all day.
when people ask from now on, i’m a reader. that’s a much more noble pursuit anyway, if you ask me.
haha he got us both to bite on that comment.
haha he got us both to bite on that comment.
insert Borges quote here about pride and books read/written. I agree though, by golly.
oops I meant I agree with Blake. what happened there?
insert Borges quote here about pride and books read/written. I agree though, by golly.
oops I meant I agree with Blake. what happened there?
wow, usually when i comment i get no reaction at all. i really don’t know how to answer any of this excpet to say that not saying i was a writer was b/c i wanted to shield my hopes. unless i’m crazy, that might be true for some other people too, though maybe not you, or darby. but yeah, i can see where you and i would differ on lots of things.
wow, usually when i comment i get no reaction at all. i really don’t know how to answer any of this excpet to say that not saying i was a writer was b/c i wanted to shield my hopes. unless i’m crazy, that might be true for some other people too, though maybe not you, or darby. but yeah, i can see where you and i would differ on lots of things.
“So what if a piece of wood discovers it’s a violin.”
— Rimbaud, “writer”
“So what if a piece of wood discovers it’s a violin.”
— Rimbaud, “writer”
this box thing is really important to some people. some people don’t want to call sci fi and literature different things, like over at Big Other. or fiction and flash fiction–we’ve had that discusson. it’s not that important to me.
this box thing is really important to some people. some people don’t want to call sci fi and literature different things, like over at Big Other. or fiction and flash fiction–we’ve had that discusson. it’s not that important to me.
“For Rimbaud’s famous formula ‘I is another’ relates back strangely to an Aristotelian way of thinking: ‘Too bad for the wood which finds itself a violin! if the copper wakes up a bugle, that is not its fault’ . . . For Rimbaud, it is thus a question of the determining form of a thing in so far as it is distinguished from the matter in which it is embodied: a mould as in Aristotle.”
— Deleuze, “writer”
“For Rimbaud’s famous formula ‘I is another’ relates back strangely to an Aristotelian way of thinking: ‘Too bad for the wood which finds itself a violin! if the copper wakes up a bugle, that is not its fault’ . . . For Rimbaud, it is thus a question of the determining form of a thing in so far as it is distinguished from the matter in which it is embodied: a mould as in Aristotle.”
— Deleuze, “writer”
i prefer talking about art though there a couple people i really like to talk about writing with.
i prefer talking about art though there a couple people i really like to talk about writing with.
“butt-rockers” who don’t actively rock butts shouldn’t call themselves “butt-rockers.” true or false?
“butt-rockers” who don’t actively rock butts shouldn’t call themselves “butt-rockers.” true or false?
i can’t quite work out whether you’re leaning toward the Rimbaud quote here, alec, or away from it. at any rate, i don’t know if i track with deleuze here. the violin isn’t a mould; it’s a thing. a mould is like the outline of where a thing would be. so the point of the statement is not that the matter is more real than the form but that the form is taken to be some kind of antimatter. i wouldn’t say rimbaud is asserting matter as the reality of the form but saying form should not be looked upon as matter’s disappearance. a piece of wood isn’t special for being a violin not because the wood is more true than the thing it becomes but because the wood is still there in the thing it becomes. rimbaud asks: what if instead of the violin waking from the wood, the wood wakes up as a violin. it isn’t what it was but it isn’t that transformed. the form itself can’t see the tree for the wood, a heideggerian point. a string quartet is always formally (and not formerly) wooden.
i can’t quite work out whether you’re leaning toward the Rimbaud quote here, alec, or away from it. at any rate, i don’t know if i track with deleuze here. the violin isn’t a mould; it’s a thing. a mould is like the outline of where a thing would be. so the point of the statement is not that the matter is more real than the form but that the form is taken to be some kind of antimatter. i wouldn’t say rimbaud is asserting matter as the reality of the form but saying form should not be looked upon as matter’s disappearance. a piece of wood isn’t special for being a violin not because the wood is more true than the thing it becomes but because the wood is still there in the thing it becomes. rimbaud asks: what if instead of the violin waking from the wood, the wood wakes up as a violin. it isn’t what it was but it isn’t that transformed. the form itself can’t see the tree for the wood, a heideggerian point. a string quartet is always formally (and not formerly) wooden.
i defer to you dear matthew.
i defer to you dear matthew.
Oh, I was just hoping to initiate a string of quotes maybe, or something. I do agree that what you quoted of Rimbaud has significance as a collapsing of form and matter.
Oh, I was just hoping to initiate a string of quotes maybe, or something. I do agree that what you quoted of Rimbaud has significance as a collapsing of form and matter.
Referring to oneself as a writer, out in the world, is a pain in the ass. Like, if you tell the guy sitting next to you on the airplane that you’re a writer (when he asks) he’s immediately like, “Oh, have you written anything I’d have read?” as if you know what he’s read or what his interests are and/or as if you might be someone famous he can tell people about meeting. If you say no (and this is almost always the right answer) then he might ask you what you write about and if you say what you really write about (fucking or children dying of cancer or likable pederasts) he will stare straight ahead for the rest of the flight and jump when your elbows accidentally touch when you’re getting up to use the bathroom. Or you could give the more socially acceptable answer “family” and then he’s like “Oh that’s nice. I have a family” and then he’ll tell you about his family for the next 1200 miles which is awkward in the way that forced conversations on airplanes are awkward. And if you answer the first question by saying “I’m not published” and he says, “Oh, I’m sorry” then that’s awkward too and sort of deflating and a reminder of the definition of “writer” in real world places like airplanes. So I just don’t get into it.
Referring to oneself as a writer, out in the world, is a pain in the ass. Like, if you tell the guy sitting next to you on the airplane that you’re a writer (when he asks) he’s immediately like, “Oh, have you written anything I’d have read?” as if you know what he’s read or what his interests are and/or as if you might be someone famous he can tell people about meeting. If you say no (and this is almost always the right answer) then he might ask you what you write about and if you say what you really write about (fucking or children dying of cancer or likable pederasts) he will stare straight ahead for the rest of the flight and jump when your elbows accidentally touch when you’re getting up to use the bathroom. Or you could give the more socially acceptable answer “family” and then he’s like “Oh that’s nice. I have a family” and then he’ll tell you about his family for the next 1200 miles which is awkward in the way that forced conversations on airplanes are awkward. And if you answer the first question by saying “I’m not published” and he says, “Oh, I’m sorry” then that’s awkward too and sort of deflating and a reminder of the definition of “writer” in real world places like airplanes. So I just don’t get into it.
Okay.
Okay.
Or if you use a wheelchair.
Or if you use a wheelchair.
Was Ralph Ellison still a novelist all those years after Invisible Man was published. I think yes.
Was Ralph Ellison still a novelist all those years after Invisible Man was published. I think yes.
it can be important to one’s own self-definition to call oneself a writer. as i tell my students, whom i address as writers, not as students or even as aspiring writers, organize your life around your writing, not your writing around your life. that kind of advice makes no sense if one doesn’t define oneself to oneself as a writer.
it can be important to one’s own self-definition to call oneself a writer. as i tell my students, whom i address as writers, not as students or even as aspiring writers, organize your life around your writing, not your writing around your life. that kind of advice makes no sense if one doesn’t define oneself to oneself as a writer.
There’s been, I think, too mcuh talk about professionalism when what really matters (my mind) is pursuit. I threw a football in the park the other day with some friends; I am not a quarterback. For a couple of years I played a lot of golf and got to be fairly good but I was never a golfer because it was not my pursuit. Now I actively pursue writing in a mental/physical/emotional way. Though I have a job I do not refer to myself as a specialist of that profession; it is not my pursuit.
Of course to suggest that a life can/should have but one goal in mind (whatever the end is to writing’s mean) is silly in the silliest way, but insofar as human relationships are bent (in America, esp.) on definitions that can be easily recalled (as in, “I met a fisherman the other day” or “There was this accountant at the mini-mart”), the term “writer” will do as well as anything else. To suggest we (and forgive me please for the inclusive) are above the other, mortal, non-arts humans is perverse. One can say, “I refuse to belittle myself with titles; I am the wind and the grass,” but that one will find him/her/itself without much to say when it comes time to write, yes?
Maybe off.
There’s been, I think, too mcuh talk about professionalism when what really matters (my mind) is pursuit. I threw a football in the park the other day with some friends; I am not a quarterback. For a couple of years I played a lot of golf and got to be fairly good but I was never a golfer because it was not my pursuit. Now I actively pursue writing in a mental/physical/emotional way. Though I have a job I do not refer to myself as a specialist of that profession; it is not my pursuit.
Of course to suggest that a life can/should have but one goal in mind (whatever the end is to writing’s mean) is silly in the silliest way, but insofar as human relationships are bent (in America, esp.) on definitions that can be easily recalled (as in, “I met a fisherman the other day” or “There was this accountant at the mini-mart”), the term “writer” will do as well as anything else. To suggest we (and forgive me please for the inclusive) are above the other, mortal, non-arts humans is perverse. One can say, “I refuse to belittle myself with titles; I am the wind and the grass,” but that one will find him/her/itself without much to say when it comes time to write, yes?
Maybe off.
i disagree. you are providing a band-aid workaround for people “too young” or “novice” to start looking past their bellybutton.
“organize your life around your writing, not your writing around your life”
where in that is the term “writer” ?
ego is a motherfucker. that’s what you should be teaching kids.
I like when people tell stories. I like reading those stories. Don’t care so much about the people who made the stories unless I know them and we’ve had drinks together.
i disagree. you are providing a band-aid workaround for people “too young” or “novice” to start looking past their bellybutton.
“organize your life around your writing, not your writing around your life”
where in that is the term “writer” ?
ego is a motherfucker. that’s what you should be teaching kids.
I like when people tell stories. I like reading those stories. Don’t care so much about the people who made the stories unless I know them and we’ve had drinks together.
i’m talking about dedication and perseverance. i’m talking about what precedes craft and underlies and sustains it. i’m not talking about the word “writer”; i’m talking about the writing life. and isn’t it ego to tell me about what i SHOULD be teaching “kids”?
i’m talking about dedication and perseverance. i’m talking about what precedes craft and underlies and sustains it. i’m not talking about the word “writer”; i’m talking about the writing life. and isn’t it ego to tell me about what i SHOULD be teaching “kids”?
Professionalism can be narrowing — no doubt about it. But it can also be liberating when the values of the profession under discussion are opposed to or transcend the corrupt and superficial commercial values of the culture at large.
Professionalism can be narrowing — no doubt about it. But it can also be liberating when the values of the profession under discussion are opposed to or transcend the corrupt and superficial commercial values of the culture at large.
supposing, of course, that opposition/transcendence of the culture at large is and should be the aim of a professional (writer?). But to suggest that is the only aim is also somewhat limiting; are we not to find any value whatsoever in what we oppose (assuming we do so)? Is it not inherently valuable if for nothing other than it has taught us or clarified what is *not* ideal?
and again the problem of defining profession. The verb “to profess” is quite different from the phrase “to be employed in the field of,” yes?
still, culture at large is too easy/convenient a target, one that can never be defined and therefore gives us some measure of safety and satisfaction in that it cannot be defeated, thus both giving us indefinite cause and also an excuse for not succeeding.
but still, there is writing. thank you for replying to me. enjoy good weather (if you have it), or enjoy it (when it comes).
supposing, of course, that opposition/transcendence of the culture at large is and should be the aim of a professional (writer?). But to suggest that is the only aim is also somewhat limiting; are we not to find any value whatsoever in what we oppose (assuming we do so)? Is it not inherently valuable if for nothing other than it has taught us or clarified what is *not* ideal?
and again the problem of defining profession. The verb “to profess” is quite different from the phrase “to be employed in the field of,” yes?
still, culture at large is too easy/convenient a target, one that can never be defined and therefore gives us some measure of safety and satisfaction in that it cannot be defeated, thus both giving us indefinite cause and also an excuse for not succeeding.
but still, there is writing. thank you for replying to me. enjoy good weather (if you have it), or enjoy it (when it comes).
Agreed, howie. How else to become a writer if not to act like one? Does one tell a ten-year-old who wants to be a baseball player to sit in the dirt and organize rocks into the outlines of dinosaurs? Rather one tells him/her to practice what baseball players do. (Of course, one would not call such novices baseball players in a professional sense, but a vocational one, perhaps. Try to convince them they are not.)
Is art really so different? perhaps the biggest egoism of all is to assume oneself superior/vastly different from others.
Agreed, howie. How else to become a writer if not to act like one? Does one tell a ten-year-old who wants to be a baseball player to sit in the dirt and organize rocks into the outlines of dinosaurs? Rather one tells him/her to practice what baseball players do. (Of course, one would not call such novices baseball players in a professional sense, but a vocational one, perhaps. Try to convince them they are not.)
Is art really so different? perhaps the biggest egoism of all is to assume oneself superior/vastly different from others.
In my inspiration hours I write: “In my inspiration hours I write: “In my inspiration hours I write: “In my inspiration hours I write: “In my inspiration hours I write: “In my inspiration hours I write: “In my inspiration hours I write: “In my inspiration hours I write: “In my inspiration hours I write.””””””””
In my inspiration hours I write: “In my inspiration hours I write: “In my inspiration hours I write: “In my inspiration hours I write: “In my inspiration hours I write: “In my inspiration hours I write: “In my inspiration hours I write: “In my inspiration hours I write: “In my inspiration hours I write.””””””””
by culture at large i mean jay leno; by professionalism i mean good work — work that is both technically and aesthetically good (yeah, i know, you can’t know the good without the bad)
by culture at large i mean jay leno; by professionalism i mean good work — work that is both technically and aesthetically good (yeah, i know, you can’t know the good without the bad)
Pulitzer-prize winner Edward P. Jones talks about how, for years, he wrote The Known World in his head while he worked as a proofreader for a tax magazine…So I’d argue that anyone who feels committed to his/her writing is a writer, and I won’t judge that level of commitment for them.
Pulitzer-prize winner Edward P. Jones talks about how, for years, he wrote The Known World in his head while he worked as a proofreader for a tax magazine…So I’d argue that anyone who feels committed to his/her writing is a writer, and I won’t judge that level of commitment for them.
why do I feel like I will walk around for a few days saying this obsessively in my mind, and then say it to the residential advisors….. or a pretty lady.
why do I feel like I will walk around for a few days saying this obsessively in my mind, and then say it to the residential advisors….. or a pretty lady.