April 1st, 2010 / 11:24 pm
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Meta
i’ll review poetry books
i’ll review poetry books
the belief that poetry is too subjective to really review is false – the belief that poetry is too personal to be objective is silly. Downright silly. Some of my favorite review of poetry were written by David Ignato. I think that the falling importance of poetry has a lot to do with us poets, we need to become a threat to the powers that be again, we need to challenge with our words and stop writing about rain. Unless it is raining blood to water the tree of liberty.
BTW, thank you for the link. we get PW but it’s my wife (read agent) that reads it. My agent (read wife) tells me what I need to know but often will not tell me something if it’s going to upset me.
these are my .03 and I admit that I have only read half the article.
the belief that poetry is too subjective to really review is false – the belief that poetry is too personal to be objective is silly. Downright silly. Some of my favorite review of poetry were written by David Ignato. I think that the falling importance of poetry has a lot to do with us poets, we need to become a threat to the powers that be again, we need to challenge with our words and stop writing about rain. Unless it is raining blood to water the tree of liberty.
BTW, thank you for the link. we get PW but it’s my wife (read agent) that reads it. My agent (read wife) tells me what I need to know but often will not tell me something if it’s going to upset me.
these are my .03 and I admit that I have only read half the article.
That is a great article.
That is a great article.
“we need to become a threat to the powers that be again”
again?
“we need to become a threat to the powers that be again”
again?
At least Jhon argues that poetry could more often attempt to be relevant, and any anon who pithily implies poetry has never been ‘a threat’ isn’t familiar with history.
At least Jhon argues that poetry could more often attempt to be relevant, and any anon who pithily implies poetry has never been ‘a threat’ isn’t familiar with history.
no kidding. i’m still sore from the last time.
no kidding. i’m still sore from the last time.
anyone who implies contemporary poetry doesn’t attempt to be relevant isn’t familiar with contemporary poetry. (hey, even the stuff that’s bad often makes the attempt!)
anyone who implies contemporary poetry doesn’t attempt to be relevant isn’t familiar with contemporary poetry. (hey, even the stuff that’s bad often makes the attempt!)
“any anon who pithily implies poetry has never been ‘a threat’ isn’t familiar with history.”
When exactly was poetry a “threat to the powers that be”? Could you be specific? Son me, if you can. In all earnestness, I’d like to learn. Maybe I’m missing out on something important.
“any anon who pithily implies poetry has never been ‘a threat’ isn’t familiar with history.”
When exactly was poetry a “threat to the powers that be”? Could you be specific? Son me, if you can. In all earnestness, I’d like to learn. Maybe I’m missing out on something important.
I’ll take up this argument. I’m sure you can find examples of contemp po attempting to be relevant but I’ll suggest this is unusual in comparison to what is being published in the major journals and of those which are unusual most of the authors are not attempting to be relevant.
But perhaps a stronger plank to argue from would be the lack of poetry in the public discourse, contemporary poetry just isn’t cited as often as it used to be to buttress arguments or encapsulate a salient point. When someone wishes to be relevant on a given topic they’ll write a novel, make a film, donate money, engage politically, but poetry is near the bottom of the arts when the artist’s primary desire is to be relevant.
I’ll take up this argument. I’m sure you can find examples of contemp po attempting to be relevant but I’ll suggest this is unusual in comparison to what is being published in the major journals and of those which are unusual most of the authors are not attempting to be relevant.
But perhaps a stronger plank to argue from would be the lack of poetry in the public discourse, contemporary poetry just isn’t cited as often as it used to be to buttress arguments or encapsulate a salient point. When someone wishes to be relevant on a given topic they’ll write a novel, make a film, donate money, engage politically, but poetry is near the bottom of the arts when the artist’s primary desire is to be relevant.
what does ‘relevant’ mean?
what does ‘relevant’ mean?
lotsa govts have felt thereatened by poets at some point– poland, ireland, ussr, cuba, germany, china. not so much in the u.s.
lotsa govts have felt thereatened by poets at some point– poland, ireland, ussr, cuba, germany, china. not so much in the u.s.
Globally, poets have definitely been considered threatening, or labelled as dissidents because of the subjects they choose to tackle in their poetry.
Globally, poets have definitely been considered threatening, or labelled as dissidents because of the subjects they choose to tackle in their poetry.
man, htmlgiant has been ‘suck’ the last few days…. what, r u guys going outside or something? jk
man, htmlgiant has been ‘suck’ the last few days…. what, r u guys going outside or something? jk
If it has been suck, why are you here?
If it has been suck, why are you here?
WOW, roxane gay has finally responded to me! Praise Jesus! Jehovah, Mary, Moses…. I’m glad it was over a joke unrelated to her rather than something substantive.
WOW, roxane gay has finally responded to me! Praise Jesus! Jehovah, Mary, Moses…. I’m glad it was over a joke unrelated to her rather than something substantive.
some people really shouldn’t have computer access at work.
that’s harsh… maybe?
some people really shouldn’t have computer access at work.
that’s harsh… maybe?
Stephen, I’ve never see you respond to anything of mine. It’s not like I’ve not responded to you on purpose.
alright, w/e, david peak. i’ve made a million helpful comments on a million posts, but yea, you’re right. now i’m promoting young up-and-comers from htmlgiant and all over the place, for free, for art, but yea, what a fuckhead…. what’d i do to you? as i say, the joke is unrelated to what yall folks are saying on this post
Stephen, I’ve never see you respond to anything of mine. It’s not like I’ve not responded to you on purpose.
alright, w/e, david peak. i’ve made a million helpful comments on a million posts, but yea, you’re right. now i’m promoting young up-and-comers from htmlgiant and all over the place, for free, for art, but yea, what a fuckhead…. what’d i do to you? as i say, the joke is unrelated to what yall folks are saying on this post
that was harsh, roxane, sorry. i have responded to u a couple times directly with no response from you, but i mean, that’s hardly a crime. sorry!
that was harsh, roxane, sorry. i have responded to u a couple times directly with no response from you, but i mean, that’s hardly a crime. sorry!
Wow…We’re all doing stuff for free, dude. Beyond that, I’ve just missed those responses. I mean I know I post a lot but I simply don’t catch everything. If there’s something you want to see you can always just email me.
Wow…We’re all doing stuff for free, dude. Beyond that, I’ve just missed those responses. I mean I know I post a lot but I simply don’t catch everything. If there’s something you want to see you can always just email me.
What’s wrong with writing about rain?
Consciously attempting to be ‘relevant’ in your poetry is maybe the quickest way to not be.
hence, “hardly a crime” in my last post, with the word “sorry!” my vitriol if you can call it that was at david “smarms” peak
What’s wrong with writing about rain?
Consciously attempting to be ‘relevant’ in your poetry is maybe the quickest way to not be.
hence, “hardly a crime” in my last post, with the word “sorry!” my vitriol if you can call it that was at david “smarms” peak
but yea seriously, davidpeak, your comment is why we have the expression “that’s rich!”
but yea seriously, davidpeak, your comment is why we have the expression “that’s rich!”
if yall don’t at least attempt to define the word “relevant” or else use a more precise or “meaningful” one, you’re just blowing smoke up each other’s asses. i should really staying out of it, though, obviously. probably unqualified. probably at work. probably talk too much.. probably..prob-b-b—-/*0k#+=-o2@~`
if yall don’t at least attempt to define the word “relevant” or else use a more precise or “meaningful” one, you’re just blowing smoke up each other’s asses. i should really staying out of it, though, obviously. probably unqualified. probably at work. probably talk too much.. probably..prob-b-b—-/*0k#+=-o2@~`
i’m being a grouchy asshole on a fri, but i’m right.
i’m being a grouchy asshole on a fri, but i’m right.
sorry, stephen. didn’t mean anything to be “smarmy.” just off-the-cuff, as much to myself as it was to you. we can be grouchy together?
lol! that’s awesome, david = )
sorry, stephen. didn’t mean anything to be “smarmy.” just off-the-cuff, as much to myself as it was to you. we can be grouchy together?
lol! that’s awesome, david = )
“Mending Fences at HTMLGIANT.COM Comments Section” every day at circa 11 A.M., noon, 2 P.M., 6:30 P.M., repeats at midnight…..
“Mending Fences at HTMLGIANT.COM Comments Section” every day at circa 11 A.M., noon, 2 P.M., 6:30 P.M., repeats at midnight…..
stephen,
poetic relevance. a poem that seriously affects a read’s mind, imagination, etc. A poem written about a ‘current’ issue is not necessarily relevant at all.
stephen,
poetic relevance. a poem that seriously affects a read’s mind, imagination, etc. A poem written about a ‘current’ issue is not necessarily relevant at all.
“now featuring even more DFW references, sword-fights, and general cheek-puffery”
I just don’t have an answer. I mean I think relevant is pretty self-explanatory. I don’t even know why the question of relevance is being brought up.
“now featuring even more DFW references, sword-fights, and general cheek-puffery”
I just don’t have an answer. I mean I think relevant is pretty self-explanatory. I don’t even know why the question of relevance is being brought up.
also stephen, I’m kind of with you on the grouchiness. “stop writing about rain” makes me grouchy, as if we were somehow in the position to dismiss rain. Rain is not ‘relevant,’ yeah, sure, ok. whatever. I could spend an entire lifetime writing about rain. . . rain is inexhaustible.
“kissing and making up is for lit nerds, too”
also stephen, I’m kind of with you on the grouchiness. “stop writing about rain” makes me grouchy, as if we were somehow in the position to dismiss rain. Rain is not ‘relevant,’ yeah, sure, ok. whatever. I could spend an entire lifetime writing about rain. . . rain is inexhaustible.
“kissing and making up is for lit nerds, too”
well, i guess for me, if i was to put on my “intuition helmet,” ‘relevant’ may mean things to different people as varied as: political timeliness or Important Political Commentary; ‘cutting-edge’ avant-garde aesthetics, and shit; “i feel this in my innermost core; it means so very much to me, as a person”; “you know, i have not seen this before, and yet it feels so ‘right,’ and seems as if i have been waiting since at least last night for this poem to come along, and now that it has, i feel like the day ‘means something’……… you get the idea
well, i guess for me, if i was to put on my “intuition helmet,” ‘relevant’ may mean things to different people as varied as: political timeliness or Important Political Commentary; ‘cutting-edge’ avant-garde aesthetics, and shit; “i feel this in my innermost core; it means so very much to me, as a person”; “you know, i have not seen this before, and yet it feels so ‘right,’ and seems as if i have been waiting since at least last night for this poem to come along, and now that it has, i feel like the day ‘means something’……… you get the idea
i reviewed brandon scott gorrell’s poetry book here: http://popserial.wordpress.com/2010/04/01/during-my-nervous-breakdown-i-want-to-have-a-biographer-present/
i reviewed brandon scott gorrell’s poetry book here: http://popserial.wordpress.com/2010/04/01/during-my-nervous-breakdown-i-want-to-have-a-biographer-present/
i think poetry is “even more” subjective than are novels, if that’s even possible, and so i tend to like poetry reviews, if there must be poetry reviews, that are personal and more in line with Susan Sontag’s “erotics of art”—focusing on, pulling out your favorite lines, and dispensing with most commentary
i think poetry is “even more” subjective than are novels, if that’s even possible, and so i tend to like poetry reviews, if there must be poetry reviews, that are personal and more in line with Susan Sontag’s “erotics of art”—focusing on, pulling out your favorite lines, and dispensing with most commentary
if not more subjective, whatever that means, than even moreso incapable of being judged in any logical way. a novel may have a structure or ‘form’; was this form completed, does it relate to the ‘ideas’ or ‘themes’ or ’emotions.’ one may judge a poetry book in this way, but i feel poetry is “even more” lawless than novels are, even more mysterious. the more inscrutable a novel is, the closer it is to poetry, the closer it is to music, the closer it is to ‘sublime’…..
if not more subjective, whatever that means, than even moreso incapable of being judged in any logical way. a novel may have a structure or ‘form’; was this form completed, does it relate to the ‘ideas’ or ‘themes’ or ’emotions.’ one may judge a poetry book in this way, but i feel poetry is “even more” lawless than novels are, even more mysterious. the more inscrutable a novel is, the closer it is to poetry, the closer it is to music, the closer it is to ‘sublime’…..
rain is rain. but i would also say, poem is poem. me is me. you is you. and thus, i have no clue what ‘relevant’ is, even after you’re very plausible, intelligent definition. things just are. how could they not be? is the phenomenon that a poem is ‘relevant’ to you, or is it something along the lines of: this poem made me cry. that would be something no one could argue with.
your*
rain is rain. but i would also say, poem is poem. me is me. you is you. and thus, i have no clue what ‘relevant’ is, even after you’re very plausible, intelligent definition. things just are. how could they not be? is the phenomenon that a poem is ‘relevant’ to you, or is it something along the lines of: this poem made me cry. that would be something no one could argue with.
your*
I doubt you can ‘stay out of i’t stephen even if you seem out of it… I find your comments more disruptive than helpful, sort of like a bobble head that can speak. But hey you’re an active member who promotes the arts…
I doubt you can ‘stay out of i’t stephen even if you seem out of it… I find your comments more disruptive than helpful, sort of like a bobble head that can speak. But hey you’re an active member who promotes the arts…
seems harsh and/or illogical given that an intelligent discussion will inevitably lead to ‘some kind of’ disruption or redirection. i do ‘talk a lot,’ and i may not be ‘what you are used to,’ but who’s problem is that, exactly?
seems harsh and/or illogical given that an intelligent discussion will inevitably lead to ‘some kind of’ disruption or redirection. i do ‘talk a lot,’ and i may not be ‘what you are used to,’ but who’s problem is that, exactly?
this will ‘annoy you,’ is ‘unbelievably arrogant-sounding,’ but it’s possible i am ‘over your head,’ steven pine, to the point that i have trouble slowing down and being polite in the interest of your feelings.
this will ‘annoy you,’ is ‘unbelievably arrogant-sounding,’ but it’s possible i am ‘over your head,’ steven pine, to the point that i have trouble slowing down and being polite in the interest of your feelings.
a poem makes itself relevant through sheer imaginative force. it either does this, or it is simply dead words on a page.
a relevant poem is as alive (or more so) than its maker. I suggested that trying to be ‘relevant’ would be the best way to not be relevant because—unless you have an extraordinarily disciplined mind—that sort of goal will make you flatten out your poem. you were not willing to risk not being relevant, and because of this you never are.
a poem makes itself relevant through sheer imaginative force. it either does this, or it is simply dead words on a page.
a relevant poem is as alive (or more so) than its maker. I suggested that trying to be ‘relevant’ would be the best way to not be relevant because—unless you have an extraordinarily disciplined mind—that sort of goal will make you flatten out your poem. you were not willing to risk not being relevant, and because of this you never are.
*whose
*whose
hmmm, is this ‘ryan’ from the other day? if so, while liking your ideas here, i would still appeal to that ‘surrender’ bit we were talking about the other day, for the sake of discussion. maybe writing a poem is a surrender to your feelings, put down in ‘merely’ words on a page, and the reception to it, however positive and meaningful, is out of your control, and is so ephemeral and undefinable as to be ‘almost’ non-existent. thus, the ‘relevancy,’ if it’s there, is moreso ‘in spite of’ it being ‘just’ words on a page, rather than a transcendence from being words on the page? or something? hahahaha…..
hmmm, is this ‘ryan’ from the other day? if so, while liking your ideas here, i would still appeal to that ‘surrender’ bit we were talking about the other day, for the sake of discussion. maybe writing a poem is a surrender to your feelings, put down in ‘merely’ words on a page, and the reception to it, however positive and meaningful, is out of your control, and is so ephemeral and undefinable as to be ‘almost’ non-existent. thus, the ‘relevancy,’ if it’s there, is moreso ‘in spite of’ it being ‘just’ words on a page, rather than a transcendence from being words on the page? or something? hahahaha…..
stephen, I’ve enjoyed a lot of the comments I’ve seen you post around HTMLGIANT, but you really could make more of an effort to think your posts through before you hit ‘Submit Comment’. These strings of consecutive posts are pretty unnecessary.
However, I’m yet (to the best of my knowledge) to get any sort of response from anyone on here, so perhaps what I’m saying should be taken with a pinch of salt. I suspect I might be ‘out of sync’ or whatever with the general flows and currents in these parts. Perhaps most people will enjoy your threads-at-the-speed-of-thought?
(I’m not moaning about anything in the above para. I find this place interesting.)
stephen, I’ve enjoyed a lot of the comments I’ve seen you post around HTMLGIANT, but you really could make more of an effort to think your posts through before you hit ‘Submit Comment’. These strings of consecutive posts are pretty unnecessary.
However, I’m yet (to the best of my knowledge) to get any sort of response from anyone on here, so perhaps what I’m saying should be taken with a pinch of salt. I suspect I might be ‘out of sync’ or whatever with the general flows and currents in these parts. Perhaps most people will enjoy your threads-at-the-speed-of-thought?
(I’m not moaning about anything in the above para. I find this place interesting.)
Seems vague. What’s the ratio of journalists assassinated to poets assassinated? 1000 to 1?
Seems vague. What’s the ratio of journalists assassinated to poets assassinated? 1000 to 1?
you are undoubtedly to some degree ‘on point.’ sorry, dude… i’m probably lonely + bored :)
you are undoubtedly to some degree ‘on point.’ sorry, dude… i’m probably lonely + bored :)
heyyo donald, if you want a copy of my limited-edition art/lit magazine coming out in May, holla at me @ stephen.dierks@gmail.com with some Cambridge address or something. The magazine features Tao Lin, Joshua Cohen, Brandon Scott Gorrell, and many others from around the globe: http://popserial.tumblr.com/post/461833926/pop-serial-a-limited-edition-art-literature-magazine
heyyo donald, if you want a copy of my limited-edition art/lit magazine coming out in May, holla at me @ stephen.dierks@gmail.com with some Cambridge address or something. The magazine features Tao Lin, Joshua Cohen, Brandon Scott Gorrell, and many others from around the globe: http://popserial.tumblr.com/post/461833926/pop-serial-a-limited-edition-art-literature-magazine
nevermind
i read a poetry book yesterday
nevermind
i read a poetry book yesterday
@Donald-
Your “you really could make more of an effort to think your posts through before you hit ‘Submit Comment’ ” suggestion to stephen cracked me up!
However, I for one have become quick fond of stephen’s plentiful quickies. They too make me laugh.
A great part of the charm of HTML GIANT, to me, is the array of different voices coming from intelligent, engaged people who are not afraid to “speak their mind”.
@Donald-
Your “you really could make more of an effort to think your posts through before you hit ‘Submit Comment’ ” suggestion to stephen cracked me up!
However, I for one have become quick fond of stephen’s plentiful quickies. They too make me laugh.
A great part of the charm of HTML GIANT, to me, is the array of different voices coming from intelligent, engaged people who are not afraid to “speak their mind”.
hey, thanks a lot, mimi! you’ve always seemed nice to me. donald and i seem to have ‘patched things up’ via email : )
hey, thanks a lot, mimi! you’ve always seemed nice to me. donald and i seem to have ‘patched things up’ via email : )