July 25th, 2011 / 2:00 pm
Snippets
Snippets
Ben Mirov—
Poets are the most jealous type of artist. One of the most jealous moments I’ve experienced is when I heard Heather Christle’s second book The Trees the Trees was being published by Octopus Books and her third book What is Amazing was forthcoming from Wesleyan University Press. I’d love to hear your jealous moments (bonus points for commenting under your own name).
I didn’t have this problem while I was focusing on short material but now that I’m submitting books I am jealous of every single success. Every. Single. One.
I’m sure I’ll get over it eventually.
I dated a girl a few years after a friend did. Found out she let him bf her, but she wouldn’t let me. smh. My name is Adam.
I dated a girl a few years after a friend did. Found out she let him bf her, but she wouldn’t let me. smh. My name is Adam.
probably when ben mirov won the new michigan chapbook contest
How long does your jealousy last, usually? I find that mine is reflexive and lasts like a day and then it’s gone. After that I usually feel happy for the person.
holy shit
I feel it for about two to three minutes and then forget all about it.
I guess if it’s someone I consider a close friend with good news — as happened recently, with a publisher I’d like to work with no less — I’m actually still very happy and not jealous. It’s mainly people I don’t know anything about that seem to cause it.
i am jealous of anything jimmy chen writes cos i know i aint ever gonna be that good.
-1 bonus point for being off-topic. -1 for abbreviating “butt fucking”. +5 for making me laugh in a crowded coffee shop.
i am perpetually jealous of gregory sherl as a writer but I have more chest hair than him (i will prove this at AWP if anyone wants proof) so I sleep alright, at least
I have a friend who will publish his third novel soon, and he’s younger than me (by a year!). The jealousy is a constant simmer. The only respite is that I loathe his genre-fiction style and that none of our mutual friends like his prose, so I feel like I am better in my mind (pathetic, but whatevs).
Plus he’s already married, has life somewhat in order, but I’m cuter and will always be cuter and more handsome!
I maintain the friendly facade that I am happy for his success. I really wish I was.
I feel icky.
I’m always more jealous of people I know than people I don’t.
Seems like it would be hard to reconcile constant jealousy with friendship. Why do you stay friends with your friend? Is it your jealousy that keeps you interested?
Also, your comment doesn’t seem pathetic at all. If anything, I admire you for posting it.
I think that we both identify as people who write sentences in the English language for various reasons. I know he likes to identify himself as a writer, but that has commercial and social-status implications. I think I would feel super tacky calling myself a writer. (Also, the fact that I’m trying to get published through more “artsy” venues, so there is a bit of a stigma to the whole arty-writer thing as opposed to the writing fantasy-genre and anodyne commercial stuff).
And we’ve known each other for more than ten years, he is best-friends w/ people I consider best-friends, so we see each other over the holidays and weddings or funerals. And in all honesty, he’s one of the sweetest nicest kids so the only sin I can charge him w/ is the sin of being a fucking nerd. So, the geographic and social distance is a pool filled w/ jealousy. But I know how to swim, so it’s cool.
While I’m sometimes bitter over my own failures (like most writers), I can honestly say that I’m never jealous of other writers. How many books a person publishes and when he or she publishes those books don’t often matter in the long run.
Edward P. Jones published his first book, “Lost in The City,” in his 40’s. It won a Pen/Hemingway. His next book, “The Known World,” was published a decade later. It won the Pulitzer. He was 50 with two award winning books. Who would not want his career?
Marilynne Robinson published “Housekeeping” in her late 30’s (classic of the 20th C). “Gilead” was published 15 years later. It won a Pulitzer.
Cormac McCarthy and Donald Ray Pollock are two more examples of writers who published late, to great/well-received acclaim.
Toni Morrison–can’t forget about her–published her first book, “The Bluest Eye,” at 40.
I think in the era of social networking, where writers are constantly bombarded with their peers’ successes in status updates and blog posts, it’s easy to lose sight of the long haul, to forget one of the most beautiful aspects of a writing career, which is: there is no age limit, standardized career trajectory or publication quota (you could write 15 books that go out of print, or just 2 that both win major prizes). Frankly, I find this all rather liberating, rather than stifling. No one will ever care enough to stop you.
I just blame identity politics when I don’t win anything.
+3.
McCarthy not publishing until he was 32 is a constant source of hope for me.
Every time Billy Collins publishes a book. I mean what the fuck?
I actually thought it was later than 32 (didn’t double-check). My fault on that matter in my post.
“Best friending”? “Book facing”?
The “let” threw me.
He was born in ’33 and The Orchard Keeper pubbed ’65.
It makes me crazy that you posted this snippet before I made the same point in a comment box – and you say it with such force and pith. Fucker.
i’m envious of deadgod for gracefully avoiding the opportunity to talk about the difference between jealousy and envy while i merely fretted to myself: “damn, wanna comment about the difference between jealousy and envy but i don’t wanna look like teedle-dee; maybe i’ll just let deadgod do it, seems like something deadgod can do without sounding like a jerk” and then i imagined a talkshow host pulling back a curtain and saying “heeeeeere’s deadgod!” and interestingly the talkshow host in my imagination had a huge microphone, so in conclusion i am envious of my imagination’s phallic propensities
Not sure if you know her, but Penelope Fitzgerald was 58 when she published her first book (a biography of Edward Burne-Jones), and 60 when she published her first novel. Between ages 60 and 79, she published nine novels. In my small reading, she’s the best British novelist since Forster (depending on whether one considers Conrad, James, and/or Joyce to be ‘British’ – she’s on That Shelf).
I’ve never been “jealous” of either writing or celebrity attached to another writer. I really like reading good books, you know?, and am rancorous about lame material getting prizes for reasons other than personal disappointment.
“Fantasy” admits of as much “arty” ambition as literary fiction, no?
I get kind of envious of young writers with lots of success. lately this mostly applies to Luna Miguel, every time I see a Luna Miguel interview I’m like jesus, she’s super well spoken and well read and everything else. this is probably a product of being relatively young too, so I want to be the young writer guy and can’t if there’s someone being a better, younger writer than me. boo.
but this doesn’t just apply to writers. I’m also jealous of child prodigies and shit. people who graduate college at 14 or whatever make me feel bad sometimes.
Gott damn! some bastid beat me to the “jealousy”/envy distinction:
envy = wanting a thing like what you have – or better, given the betterness of me/worseness of you
jealousy = wanting the particular thing that you have
–but I am already smoked fly–curses.
It really makes me green that the likes of Ben Mirov has a platform to comment about Heather Christle.
Exactly–whenever I’m upset over a certain book getting praise or pub, it’s because of the book, not my own career (or lack thereof) (re: James Franco getting gushing praise from the likes of Amy Hempel and Ben Marcus when he has lines like, “Joe just looks at me with that stupid look, covered in flowing blood, going onto his shirt like ketchup randomness, so much messier and more random than I could ever plan”).
In this case, the anger is coming from the reader me–the reader who doesn’t enjoy having his intelligence insulted, especially by a writer (Marcus) who took on Franzen for his middlebrow-ness. And, whenever I’m excited about a book, it’s because I love the book–I’m not thinking about my own “career” because I’m too busy trying to remove the writer’s hands from my throat.
I’d have to question any writer who spends more time thinking about his or her “career” when reading others’ work. Why did you become a writer in the first place? For a “career”? Really? Myopic.
I do think writers often have healthy competition with each other, but that’s different than “jealousy.”
Exactly–whenever I’m upset over a certain book getting praise or pub, it’s because of the book, not my own career (or lack thereof) (re: James Franco getting gushing praise from the likes of Amy Hempel and Ben Marcus when he has lines like, “Joe just looks at me with that stupid look, covered in flowing blood, going onto his shirt like ketchup randomness, so much messier and more random than I could ever plan”).
In this case, the anger is coming from the reader me–the reader who doesn’t enjoy having his intelligence insulted, especially by a writer (Marcus) who took on Franzen for his middlebrow-ness. And, whenever I’m excited about a book, it’s because I love the book–I’m not thinking about my own “career” because I’m too busy trying to remove the writer’s hands from my throat.
I’d have to question any writer who spends more time thinking about his or her “career” when reading others’ work. Why did you become a writer in the first place? For a “career”? Really? Myopic.
I do think writers often have healthy competition with each other, but that’s different than “jealousy.”
I am in awe of great writing but I think everyone who has ever picked up what they consider to be a “bad book” published by a good press gets pissed about it on some level (either out of jealousy or something akin to it).
It creates a kind of imagined injustice. Either: why would they publish said shitty writer instead of me. Or: why don’t these editors publish someone I’d like to read instead of this asshole.
I used to get that feeling all the time, especially with journals.
It just felt like they could be doing so much more.
I am in awe of great writing but I think everyone who has ever picked up what they consider to be a “bad book” published by a good press gets pissed about it on some level (either out of jealousy or something akin to it).
It creates a kind of imagined injustice. Either: why would they publish said shitty writer instead of me. Or: why don’t these editors publish someone I’d like to read instead of this asshole.
I used to get that feeling all the time, especially with journals.
It just felt like they could be doing so much more.
but now I don’t give a shit.
I just write.
do I really have to say butt-fucking or are you joking?
actually, I feel better having said butt-fucking
Are you talking to me? If so, I “like” your comment.
“Boundary fencing”? “Broke-ass finagling”? “Binomial-theorem fellating”?
“Budge facking”?
Just to clarify, Corey, I like Heather’s writing a heap. I’m jealous of her accomplishments, especially her poems. I also think she’s a rad person.
I don’t get jealous or mad when a book of “shitty” poems is published. That seems like a matter of taste. When something’s not to my taste, the prizes it earns or the recognition it gets or whatever, don’t make me jealous. I find I get jealous when someone I know makes something happen for themselves and they deserve it because their work is good.
I’m looking at you while I’m talking. Thanks; it’s friendly or ‘friendly’ of you to say you “Like” my comment, and I like being “Like[d]”, but, it being a vehicle and constituent of herd formation, I don’t much trust it. I do – absurdly or just hypocritically – like it a lot, though.
Oh, for sure.
I understood you and I agree: Heather writes great poems.
I was just saying that I think that I get jealous and mad about about shitty books being published and winning awards. And also: yes, this is all about taste.
There’s all sorts of things that writers probably get jealous about…even real
superficial shit.
For example: I’d bet you 50 bucks right now that there are a few writers who are jealous about how good your book looks. Caketrain has beautiful books and I am positive that there is more than one writer out there that is thinking: “Fuck, why doesn’t my book look as good as his.”
I hope people are jealous of Joseph Reed’s talent and not the book’s look or me for lucking out. He’s the one with the goods.
Ben, you’ve got some good shit going on, don’t forget there are people out there who might be a little jealous of your recent accomplishments. [wink wink]
totally agree. I think I’ve been “minorly disappointed” by maybe one or two things he’s done (that I’ve seen anyway).
Although I was being sincere, that was hopelessly bad deflection on my part, Alex. Thanks for the comment.
oh yeah, jealous of ben mirov’s book. and that z. schomburg blurbed it.
Yea I thought about this for prob 4 hours earlier, the only time I’m actually jealous is when I’m at a restaurant looking at another table like ‘shiiiit I shoulda got THAT!’
Honestly, they’re amazing…as far as content and style.
They’re probably in my top 5 (if not top 3) favorite journals.
I had a piece in their last issue and believe me…the piece I had in there was not nearly as good as it had been after Joseph Reed got a hold of it.
…wait, I wrote that wrong.
Joseph Reed made my piece way, way, way better.
…wait, I wrote that wrong.
Joseph Reed made my piece way, way, way better.
??
Are diners budge facking at that other table?
MMMmmm most wildly jealous moment was when a peer from my MFA program was published in a journal that has yet to let me know they will not be using my work. I submitted my work a year and a half ago….
Agree. I can’t be jealous of someone I don’t know really. I guess its the not knowing what’s going on in their world. If I’m jealous its usually because I judged someone and the universe did not agree.
I think so?
I’m jealous of everyone everywhere, all the time.
I envy a lot of writers. I think if you don’t envy, you don’t publish. Or no one gets in the ring to shadow box for the crowd.
Also, as I say it, I realize I would watch shadow boxing as a sport.
I also don’t see a problem with being friends with people you’re envious of. I think most serious writers want to be surrounded by those trying to do something new and more interesting than what’s been done. It’s healthy.
I feel like envy or jealousy can be motivating factors to publish for myself, but they seem more like ephemeral reasons. I like to think that I try to get published out of an existential hopelessness (like “what else am I going to do with my work now that it’s done?”) or, in a more positive sense, out of a desire to share something with more people than my fiancé and my cats.
Ditto. I love it when my friends accomplish things for themselves. I remember when I used to be a skate rat, the only way I would get better is if one of my friends landed a trick before me, or if they did something like bomb a set of stairs. Then the rest of us would have to sack up and try the stairs too, even if it meant eating shit. I think the same thing is true for writing, part of the time at least.
detached disgust-tinged envy for a friend who writes sitcoms and smashing literary work on the side that he will not allow to be published although he’s had offers, I save jealously for sexual matters
My motives are less thoughtful, more emotional I suppose. The first time I played Mario Bros. I went straight outside to punch the brick wall of our house. I never actually got to a point where I could break bricks like Mario, but I still want to be able to. I guess, I write emails and eulogies and for certain individuals, and I write some poetry just for myself or others, but I write for larger audiences to be a part of some larger thing I love. And that love could be a response to something inspiring, and inspiration to me is a beautiful envy. An inexplicable sense of newness in the world.
Also sometimes I see really fat people and think I should gorge myself to see what that feels like. I want everything inside of me better than before. I see things and want to do them until it’s grotesque.
That or I get lonely and have nothing better to do.
PS I like cats.
Bitterly jealous that my college beau and now colleague has written and published a novel. Never mind that it is self-published or that I am professionally senior to him. Just. Jealous.
Bitterly jealous that my college beau and now colleague has written and published a novel. Never mind that it is self-published or that I am professionally senior to him. Just. Jealous.
I’d let you bf me for coming up with something as nerdy as binomial-theorem fellating. =D
holy shit
I’m fascinated by what who we’re jealous of says about how we see our place as writers. Ben is jealous of Heather Christle’s two great book acceptances. I’m not jealous of that, not because I don’t know HC (though I don’t), but because it seems so far out of the realm of the possible. Ben Mirov could, maybe, get a book out from Octopus and another from Wesleyan. He didn’t, though. But I couldn’t *and* didn’t–ergo, no jealousy. I’m not jealous of Ben Mirov either, for the same reasons. “Oh, cool, another book from an amazing press. Guess I’ll be buying that some time.”
I was jealous when a friend of mine took first in a tiny poetry contest in which I placed second, though. After I had encouraged her to enter. And now she doesn’t list it in her bio even. :(
I guess the more interesting question, to me, is this: who’s the most famous writer you’ve ever been jealous of?
That’s a pretty rad comment. I agree that jealousy has something to do with proximity or the perception of proximity to the subject of the jealous feelings.
Feels good to have you say that, Nicholas, though I’m not sure why.
I’m jealous of a lot of writers, but I’m not sure if they are famous. Right now I’m jealous of Aaron Kunin and Dana Ward.
Are we talking “e-peen” jealousy (career-building achievements) or “aesthetic accomplishment” jealousy here? Because I was assuming the former, but if it’s the latter, I feel almost all limits on the attachment of jealousy disappear. Who hasn’t been jealous of a famous dead writer for getting to a line first?
[…] you get jealous of other writers success? I do. I really really do. Ben Mirov wants to hear all about it. Don’t be […]
I love this poem and I read it all the time:
re mallory whitten by spencer madsen
girls like mallory whitten seem unfair
i am mallory whitten’s friend on facebook
i requested her like i request other people
it was the same process, it was no different
i clicked through her photos
i do that sometimes with new friends
and its like totally unfair
that she wrote knife girl
a piece which i liked a lot
and that she is like really pretty
it seems through photos that she is dating jordan castro
or something
and that makes sense
i have one of his chapbooks
it was pretty good
but its like
let me date her..
do you know that its hard to find pretty girls who would write
something like knife girl
there is a chance that i will meet mallory or jordan
having common friends and stuff
its a possibility that if we meet they will think of this
and i will be that guy
that guy that wrote that stupid piece
about how mallory whitten is totally unfair
whatever yo
doing the big work
just glad i spent the past fifteen minutes
writing this and not
wishing my grandma
a really happy birthday
—
happy birthday grandma
this one is for you
ps. sorry for the crazy formatting
That was pretty funny. I think I met Mallory once in Boston. She was nice. Thanks for posting the poem, KKB.
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