Behind the Scenes
Examining the Ruth Lilly $$$ (1) A Guest Note from Joseph Goosey
In response to my call for “close reads” on the Ruth Lilly fellows earlier today, Joseph Goosey sends us some examinations of the phrases used in this bit by a dude by the tag of Joseph Spece.
Among Elks
BY JOSEPH SPECEWoke in the brume,
lilacs like turf stars.The late fawn
standing in his syrups;bucks down the swale
chewing sedge.We move south
to slopes of sleeping poppy,past the white alder,
bending heads to scentof calx—in natural dark
a man tries his handat belonging. He
with greave of hide, a bornhood, lay with three
spikes in the clay, greenpeak in the breeze.
He whose breathingwrongs the still.
You stir now to mend,to redress?
To be one of us, after all this?
Take a word on this from Joseph after the break.
A COMPREHENSIVE GUIDE TO THE ARCHAIC AND UNNECESSARY LANGUAGE IN JOSEPH SPECE’S “AMONG ELKS”
Joseph Speces, according to poetryfoundation.org, received his B.A. in English and Philosophy from Boston College and his MFA from Columbia University in 2009. His fifteen thousand dollar check was immediately signed over to Columbia University. He looks like this:
What’s up, Bro? Did I hear you sayin’ somethin’ to my girl? Let’s hit the SLOPES.
But enough really fun ad hominem, let’s examine the text.
BRUME: Hey, who knows what a brume is? I don’t. That is, I didn’t until I googled it and thefreedictionary.com informed me that a brume is….wait for it….A POETIC FOG OR MIST. Speces must be a subscriber to dictionary.com‘s charming word of the day email saw the word “poetic” in a definition, and immediately called mom to bounce around some ideas.
TURF STARS: A Turf Star is a race horse for the one or two of you who don’t keep up with horse racing jargon.
SWALE: Wikipedia tells me that a Swale is a low tract of land, one that is moist. Speces is making me moist.
SEDGE: Speces must also be Master Gardener Certified because a Sedge is “Any of the plants in the family Cyperabeae Family.” There are 4000 species and 70 genera.
ALDER: An Alder is….A PLANT! Imagine that shit! The Alder belongs to everyone’s
favorite family of flowering plants- the birch family. It’s not a poem until it involves birch!
CALX: Calx is “a residual substance, sometimes in the form of a fine powder, that is left when a metal or mineral combusts due to heat.” Of course. Where was I during 11th grade Chemistry? INTERESTING CALX FACT: When one googles “Calx” the first hit is the wikipedia definition of Calx, the second hit is a link to this horse racing place http://www.calxharness.com/ that has a three dollar lasagna plate special.
GREAVE: A greave is this armor thing you put on your leg. People used it a long time ago.
Goliath is said to have worn them in the Old Testament. You poets who are in 6th grade
will have likely picked up Greave’s homophone “grieve”
I’m pretty sure that from here on out, the poem is composed of words we continued to use past 1870. It appears that Speces wrote a poem in Microsoft Word then right clicked every word in his poem to make sure there wasn’t some ancient synonym that would make Christian Wiman get mad wood.
[Joseph Goosey parks cars in Jacksonville, Florida. He has 2 chapbooks that are online and 2 chapbooks that are in print. He thanks you for reading.]
Tags: joseph goosey, joseph spece
I think this is a great series. I think it should be expanded. Every time a writer wins some money you should ridicule their work. The more absurd and degenerate your critique, the better. Show those idiotic literary “authorities” who’s boss!
I think this is a great series. I think it should be expanded. Every time a writer wins some money you should ridicule their work. The more absurd and degenerate your critique, the better. Show those idiotic literary “authorities” who’s boss!
just tryin to, you know, help the non white males get a leg up on our extreme social advantage by belittling in offhand ways.
just tryin to, you know, help the non white males get a leg up on our extreme social advantage by belittling in offhand ways.
For the most part, I use these words on a daily basis. I had to clean my greave this morning and it totally pissed me off because it was caked in calx. I’m going for a run through the local swale later. I sure hope I see some alder and sedge. Hopefully the brume clears so I don’t get hit by a car.
For the most part, I use these words on a daily basis. I had to clean my greave this morning and it totally pissed me off because it was caked in calx. I’m going for a run through the local swale later. I sure hope I see some alder and sedge. Hopefully the brume clears so I don’t get hit by a car.
Nicely done, sir
Nicely done, sir
ha!
ha!
how will i recognize him on the streets with those shades and that cap and the ubiquitous facial hair?
perhaps there was only a certain percentage of face-space available; in this case, he chose well.
how will i recognize him on the streets with those shades and that cap and the ubiquitous facial hair?
perhaps there was only a certain percentage of face-space available; in this case, he chose well.
Actually, though, I liked this one more than the last. I didn’t look up the words, just liked the sounds. Besides, what was apparent from the words I did know, was that it was addressing a kind of rift, perhaps un-mendable, so it seemed fitting to use what I assumed were words so antiquated they felt foreign, like origins.
Actually, though, I liked this one more than the last. I didn’t look up the words, just liked the sounds. Besides, what was apparent from the words I did know, was that it was addressing a kind of rift, perhaps un-mendable, so it seemed fitting to use what I assumed were words so antiquated they felt foreign, like origins.
for the record, the ‘readings’ i asked for on all ruth lilly scholars can gladly be positive in nature. in fact a positive close reading of some of these might be fun.
for the record, the ‘readings’ i asked for on all ruth lilly scholars can gladly be positive in nature. in fact a positive close reading of some of these might be fun.
i like this poem too, the way it sounds
i like this poem too, the way it sounds
Have you ever spent time in the woods alone? I expect you have at some point or another. And I also assume you’ve had at least one semi-profound experience in so doing, at the paradoxical witness of similarity and difference. Of being-at-home and being-lost. This poem conjures those memories for me, that sense. And does so elegantly, using language that whose vowels and labial consonants seem to mimic a walk through the mossy half-rotted marsh of rain forrest. It clearly doesn’t move you, but to say it says “nothing” is absurd. You’re not even trying to engage it.
Have you ever spent time in the woods alone? I expect you have at some point or another. And I also assume you’ve had at least one semi-profound experience in so doing, at the paradoxical witness of similarity and difference. Of being-at-home and being-lost. This poem conjures those memories for me, that sense. And does so elegantly, using language that whose vowels and labial consonants seem to mimic a walk through the mossy half-rotted marsh of rain forrest. It clearly doesn’t move you, but to say it says “nothing” is absurd. You’re not even trying to engage it.
i agree. i didn’t mean that it says nothing. it says something. i like your speaking of it here.
i agree. i didn’t mean that it says nothing. it says something. i like your speaking of it here.
Blake, there’s nothing in that dictionary that your boy Cormac McCarthy hasn’t made plenty fine use of.
Blake, there’s nothing in that dictionary that your boy Cormac McCarthy hasn’t made plenty fine use of.
I didn’t much like this poem.
I didn’t much like the example poem in the last post about this Ruth Lilly Fellowship, either.
However, I also don’t like this series of posts. They just read as juvenile, bad-natured bitterness. Something along the lines of: “We don’t like the poems, so let’s poke fun at them, pour scorn on them, and all chorus together ‘How did they manage to win the money?'”
I’m interested to know who set HTMLGIANT up as judge and jury on these matters? And I wonder if the HTMLGIANT community would stay silent if, elsewhere on the net, a post similar to this was written about one of their own?
It’s becoming rather too much like a literary witch-hunt round here lately. Leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
I didn’t much like this poem.
I didn’t much like the example poem in the last post about this Ruth Lilly Fellowship, either.
However, I also don’t like this series of posts. They just read as juvenile, bad-natured bitterness. Something along the lines of: “We don’t like the poems, so let’s poke fun at them, pour scorn on them, and all chorus together ‘How did they manage to win the money?'”
I’m interested to know who set HTMLGIANT up as judge and jury on these matters? And I wonder if the HTMLGIANT community would stay silent if, elsewhere on the net, a post similar to this was written about one of their own?
It’s becoming rather too much like a literary witch-hunt round here lately. Leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
let’s recall what one might lean to naming, in the above language and sure, mccarthy, ‘a finetoothed sense of humour’
i mean really.
let’s recall what one might lean to naming, in the above language and sure, mccarthy, ‘a finetoothed sense of humour’
i mean really.
someone please define the limits of good taste in criticism. for me.
someone please define the limits of good taste in criticism. for me.
I actually liked this poem. It was sort of jabberwocky-esque. But the discussion reminds me of this from Hemingway, “Poor Faulkner. Does he really think big emotions come from big words? He thinks I don’t know the ten-dollar words. I know them all right. But there are older and simpler and better words, and those are the ones I use.”
I actually liked this poem. It was sort of jabberwocky-esque. But the discussion reminds me of this from Hemingway, “Poor Faulkner. Does he really think big emotions come from big words? He thinks I don’t know the ten-dollar words. I know them all right. But there are older and simpler and better words, and those are the ones I use.”
i’m not one to shit on ornate language. i don’t even totally hate this poem, it has some nice sounds, even if i’m not full into it. i do think this post by joseph is fair game.
i’m not one to shit on ornate language. i don’t even totally hate this poem, it has some nice sounds, even if i’m not full into it. i do think this post by joseph is fair game.
I think these poets are going to console themselves just fine with their $15,000 grants and publication in the most well-funded poetry magazine in the history of poetry magazines.
I think these poets are going to console themselves just fine with their $15,000 grants and publication in the most well-funded poetry magazine in the history of poetry magazines.
I don’t mind the ornate language of this poem. Vocabulary porn is always interesting. For me this poem falls apart at the level of form, the narrowness of it I find distracting. I think with such intense language, it would be interesting to see longer lines, let the poem spread out a bit.
i mean seriously?
I don’t mind the ornate language of this poem. Vocabulary porn is always interesting. For me this poem falls apart at the level of form, the narrowness of it I find distracting. I think with such intense language, it would be interesting to see longer lines, let the poem spread out a bit.
i mean seriously?
LITERARY WITCH HUNT
LITERARY WITCH HUNT
$15K ain’t shit in terms of paying your rent and feeding yourself. don’t misinterpret, i’d love an extra $15K right now, but the “console themselves with their riches” argument ought to be reserved for goldman sachs jabbas who get $10M bonuses and saunter down wall street to buy $25K watches at tourbillon on their way to BMW dealership a block further. not for poets who win a couple grand. i mean, come on.
$15K ain’t shit in terms of paying your rent and feeding yourself. don’t misinterpret, i’d love an extra $15K right now, but the “console themselves with their riches” argument ought to be reserved for goldman sachs jabbas who get $10M bonuses and saunter down wall street to buy $25K watches at tourbillon on their way to BMW dealership a block further. not for poets who win a couple grand. i mean, come on.
HOO RAH.
HOO RAH.
I do think this poem is honed in a way that speaks to mastery of craft. I think the spare length of the lines, the rawness of the antiquey words, and the elegant sounds they produce generally display a high level of, I guess “poetic dexterity.” I want to say “this person knows what they’re doing.” However, that doesn’t mean I’m not bored to tears by a poem where someone goes out into nature and has a nice, brief epiphany about it. It doesn’t mean I’m not confused by poems that invoke the names of plants compulsively in lieu of more interesting or challenging images. And it certainly doesn’t mean Poetry magazine should not be made fun of by promoting the status quo in contemporary american verse by handing out substantial sums of money to people who do those things in their poems. Congratulations Joseph Spece, on winning the fellowship: I don’t like your poem.
P.S. Joseph Goosey, I thought your close reading was really funny.
I do think this poem is honed in a way that speaks to mastery of craft. I think the spare length of the lines, the rawness of the antiquey words, and the elegant sounds they produce generally display a high level of, I guess “poetic dexterity.” I want to say “this person knows what they’re doing.” However, that doesn’t mean I’m not bored to tears by a poem where someone goes out into nature and has a nice, brief epiphany about it. It doesn’t mean I’m not confused by poems that invoke the names of plants compulsively in lieu of more interesting or challenging images. And it certainly doesn’t mean Poetry magazine should not be made fun of by promoting the status quo in contemporary american verse by handing out substantial sums of money to people who do those things in their poems. Congratulations Joseph Spece, on winning the fellowship: I don’t like your poem.
P.S. Joseph Goosey, I thought your close reading was really funny.
Well its more than I make in a year so I think its pretty darn swank.
Well its more than I make in a year so I think its pretty darn swank.
I love nature and spend a lot of time out on the swale petting deer (really), but I always visualize the poet playing video games and eating Cheetos after reading a poem like this.
Maybe it’s just living my own life that makes a removal from human technological advances seem completely dishonest. The iPhone has probably fucked my life up.
I love nature and spend a lot of time out on the swale petting deer (really), but I always visualize the poet playing video games and eating Cheetos after reading a poem like this.
Maybe it’s just living my own life that makes a removal from human technological advances seem completely dishonest. The iPhone has probably fucked my life up.
Standing in his syrups!
That’s nice.
Standing in his syrups!
That’s nice.
i <3 gene
i <3 gene
Amen Roxane, $15k is big money to be handed to you for writing that has very little modern “market value.” I hear you Nick, but it’s not just a couple grand. A savvy dude can last a while on that, and if you’ve ever freelanced, you know it’s tough as shit to cobble together $15k.
wrongs the still.
You stir now to mend,
Now pay me!
Amen Roxane, $15k is big money to be handed to you for writing that has very little modern “market value.” I hear you Nick, but it’s not just a couple grand. A savvy dude can last a while on that, and if you’ve ever freelanced, you know it’s tough as shit to cobble together $15k.
wrongs the still.
You stir now to mend,
Now pay me!
NB, I dropped a word in my comment. I meant to say “$15K ain’t shit EXCEPT in terms of paying your rent and feeding yourself.” That is, it’s money you can live on, but not money for luxury. I don’t see “console yourself” remark here… that seems like a snide/bitter thing to say, like “Well, that bloodsucking CEO may be hated by everyone he screwed over, but I think he’ll be able to console himself with his $100M guaranteed severance bonus and his hookers made of gold.” It just seems ridiculous to be taking the whole “Those lucky bastard poets, laughing all the way to the bank.” They got some dough for making art with words. Good for them. If it were ten times as much, maybe some bitterness would be in order. But it’s not.
NB, I dropped a word in my comment. I meant to say “$15K ain’t shit EXCEPT in terms of paying your rent and feeding yourself.” That is, it’s money you can live on, but not money for luxury. I don’t see “console yourself” remark here… that seems like a snide/bitter thing to say, like “Well, that bloodsucking CEO may be hated by everyone he screwed over, but I think he’ll be able to console himself with his $100M guaranteed severance bonus and his hookers made of gold.” It just seems ridiculous to be taking the whole “Those lucky bastard poets, laughing all the way to the bank.” They got some dough for making art with words. Good for them. If it were ten times as much, maybe some bitterness would be in order. But it’s not.
next year’s ruth lilly fellows should get watches
next year’s ruth lilly fellows should get watches
Bill Knott does the dirty work of getting through a David Wojahn poem:
http://knottprosepo.blogspot.com/2009/11/repostthis-appeared-here-in-may-09.html
Pretty fun stuff.
Bill Knott does the dirty work of getting through a David Wojahn poem:
http://knottprosepo.blogspot.com/2009/11/repostthis-appeared-here-in-may-09.html
Pretty fun stuff.
For the record Nick, I’m not at all bitter. I just think these poets will not mind a bit of critique about their work. They’re obviously doing quite well for themselves as evidenced by their prestigious fellowship and publication in a (all things being relative) prestigious magazine.
Honestly.
For the record Nick, I’m not at all bitter. I just think these poets will not mind a bit of critique about their work. They’re obviously doing quite well for themselves as evidenced by their prestigious fellowship and publication in a (all things being relative) prestigious magazine.
Honestly.
I read that and loved it, thank you Brennen! I laughed my ass off.
I read that and loved it, thank you Brennen! I laughed my ass off.
I got a good laugh running across this, thank you. And while I’ll bow to Blake and Goosey’s critique of my vocab, what can I say but, godammit, I like words that cut a bit, and these seemed cutting; a man’s got to make his own poems. Thanks again for the thoughtful comments.
I got a good laugh running across this, thank you. And while I’ll bow to Blake and Goosey’s critique of my vocab, what can I say but, godammit, I like words that cut a bit, and these seemed cutting; a man’s got to make his own poems. Thanks again for the thoughtful comments.
thanks for having a good sense of humor, Joseph. i admire that, and your saying what you said.
thanks for having a good sense of humor, Joseph. i admire that, and your saying what you said.
Damn fine poem if you ask me! What I’m worried about isn’t the difficult (and beautiful) vocab here in this poem, but the dwindling vocab everywhere else in the current literary world!
Damn fine poem if you ask me! What I’m worried about isn’t the difficult (and beautiful) vocab here in this poem, but the dwindling vocab everywhere else in the current literary world!
Just a note:
To read “turf stars” with any kind of horse-racing innuendo is a misreading, I believe. The first couplet simply means that the lilacs appear as stars in a mist-covered grass.
Awoke in the brume,
lilacs like turf stars.
The only ungulates (hoofed mammals) in this poem are the elks, and they are very pissed off!
Just a note:
To read “turf stars” with any kind of horse-racing innuendo is a misreading, I believe. The first couplet simply means that the lilacs appear as stars in a mist-covered grass.
Awoke in the brume,
lilacs like turf stars.
The only ungulates (hoofed mammals) in this poem are the elks, and they are very pissed off!
Most people would be humbled by the fact that this poet has a far superior vocabulary–not this critic. He tries to make it THE POET’s fault the he himself is a dumbass. What’s the premium on ignorance these days? Keep exposing these fake intellectuals with good work, Joseph Spece.
Most people would be humbled by the fact that this poet has a far superior vocabulary–not this critic. He tries to make it THE POET’s fault the he himself is a dumbass. What’s the premium on ignorance these days? Keep exposing these fake intellectuals with good work, Joseph Spece.
This reminds me of camping.
This reminds me of camping.
Its bad when critics use humor to camouflage their bad scholarship. Don’t write criticism. Check out the OED. It could’ve really saved you from yourself.
I searched your name on amazon, thinking if you werent a critic, well, maybe you were a passable poet. This is what I came across.
“The year they tested us for scoliosis, I took my shirt off in front of the whole gym. Even the cheerleaders saw my bruises.”
Not a poet, either, then. Did some kind English teacher (who intilled in you your suspicion of vocabulary) tell you that teary day that “you should really write a poem about it.”
Its bad when critics use humor to camouflage their bad scholarship. Don’t write criticism. Check out the OED. It could’ve really saved you from yourself.
I searched your name on amazon, thinking if you werent a critic, well, maybe you were a passable poet. This is what I came across.
“The year they tested us for scoliosis, I took my shirt off in front of the whole gym. Even the cheerleaders saw my bruises.”
Not a poet, either, then. Did some kind English teacher (who intilled in you your suspicion of vocabulary) tell you that teary day that “you should really write a poem about it.”
BAM!
BAM!
BLAKE BUTLER DIDN’T WRITE THE CRITICIZZM
BLAKE BUTLER DIDN’T WRITE THE CRITICIZZM
did you just, in essence, high five yourself? but after five min of deliberation?
did you just, in essence, high five yourself? but after five min of deliberation?
Really, Elliot?
The first two sentences of that story seemed bad enough to you that you thought quoting them would prove your point?
It would be fun to do that with lots of writers. It would be fun to do that with Beckett. “I am in my mother’s room. It’s I who live there now. I don’t know how I got there.”
Damn it, that is so poetically underwhelming.
Really, Elliot?
The first two sentences of that story seemed bad enough to you that you thought quoting them would prove your point?
It would be fun to do that with lots of writers. It would be fun to do that with Beckett. “I am in my mother’s room. It’s I who live there now. I don’t know how I got there.”
Damn it, that is so poetically underwhelming.
yes.
yes.
You can’t compare the Beckett to “even the cheerleaders saw my bruises.” That’s a dilemma unfit even for Dawson’s Creek.
Lucky for him.
You can’t compare the Beckett to “even the cheerleaders saw my bruises.” That’s a dilemma unfit even for Dawson’s Creek.
Lucky for him.
A dilemma is, according to Wikipedia, “a problem offering at least two solutions or possibilities, of which none are practically acceptable.” So, 1) That’s hardly a dilemma, and 2) That’s hardly THE dilemma of the story/book.
My point isn’t that any writer is comparable to Beckett or vice versa, but that (A) using the first two sentences of a fiction to form a comprehensive opinion is obviously, to the point I’m wondering why I’m even writing this, problematic, since you don’t know, for instance, what the bruises signify, what sort of nightmarish possibilities will unfold, how the sentences fit within a larger framework of slowly building pressure, etc., and (B) you haven’t said exactly what about these sentences you find to be bad writing, even taken out of context of the larger fiction, as I do not find any problem with the sound, structure, or syllables, at least to my ear. And the Dawson’s Creek comment is hilarious, especially if you know where the story is going.
My point isn’t that any writer is comparable to Beckett or vice versa, but that (A) using the first two sentences of a fiction to form a comprehensive opinion is obviously, to the point I’m wondering why I’m even writing this, problematic, since you don’t know, for instance, what the bruises signify, what sort of nightmarish possibilities will unfold, how the sentences fit within a larger framework of slowly building pressure, etc., and (B) you haven’t said exactly what about these sentences you find to be bad writing, even taken out of context of the larger fiction, as I do not find any problem with the sound, structure, or syllables, at least to my ear. And the Dawson’s Creek comment is hilarious, especially if you know where the story is going.
Meh. Don’t like the poem. But it’s not because he uses archaic or obscure language. I’d just rather read Billy Childish or Brautigan…
it’s probably just me, but if you take off Spece’s shades and hat, he might look a bit like Butler. Then again, all white people look alike to me.
Meh. Don’t like the poem. But it’s not because he uses archaic or obscure language. I’d just rather read Billy Childish or Brautigan…
it’s probably just me, but if you take off Spece’s shades and hat, he might look a bit like Butler. Then again, all white people look alike to me.
go dammit, jc. go freakin’ dammit.
go dammit, jc. go freakin’ dammit.
What a fucking joke. I mean seriously. What a waste of fucking time–for JS to write and for us to read.
What a fucking joke. I mean seriously. What a waste of fucking time–for JS to write and for us to read.
It saddens me to think that such degraded remarks could follow a poem that in my estimation reaches quite nobly (and earnestly, too) into tender, urgent space. Could it be that the television is winning the war?
It saddens me to think that such degraded remarks could follow a poem that in my estimation reaches quite nobly (and earnestly, too) into tender, urgent space. Could it be that the television is winning the war?
If the war is Mark Strand vs. NCIS: Los Angeles, I’ll take the latter.
Nobly, earnestly, tenderly, urgently yours,
-Matt
If the war is Mark Strand vs. NCIS: Los Angeles, I’ll take the latter.
Nobly, earnestly, tenderly, urgently yours,
-Matt
Nobly, earnestly, tenderly, urgently
That’s hot.
Nobly, earnestly, tenderly, urgently
That’s hot.
?
i’m taking strand. i don’t even know what ‘ncis’ is and i don’t think i care to.
i’m taking strand. i don’t even know what ‘ncis’ is and i don’t think i care to.
i liked this poem. nice to know there’s a real poet out there getting paid. and probably laid.
i liked this poem. nice to know there’s a real poet out there getting paid. and probably laid.
Word.
Word.
What a fool you are!
What a fool you are!