How to fucking format a multi-page poetry/flash manuscript in MS Word
On a PC, hit CTRL-Enter. On a Mac I think it’s more difficult. You have to go to Edit > Insert Page or something like that.
Please, don’t hit return a million times. I will kill you.
Tags: not going to get me laid
preach that shit
also, two spaces between period and the first letter of the next word ended with manual typewriters. bastards!
preach that shit
also, two spaces between period and the first letter of the next word ended with manual typewriters. bastards!
yes! the one-space revolution…
yes! the one-space revolution…
YEAH. DAMN.
YEAH. DAMN.
Are you saying people seriously don’t use page breaks?
And I felt guilty for not knowing how to set up a template…
Are you saying people seriously don’t use page breaks?
And I felt guilty for not knowing how to set up a template…
Yeah. I mean, they’re great writers and everything, but it makes the subs a pain. I feel like it’s too nit-picky to put in the submission guidelines, though, which is why I’m griping about it here.
Yeah. I mean, they’re great writers and everything, but it makes the subs a pain. I feel like it’s too nit-picky to put in the submission guidelines, though, which is why I’m griping about it here.
I am embarrassed to admit that I didn’t even know what a page break was until maybe last year. And even then, I’ve never really known how to use one nor why to use one.
I also have a hard time remembering the new “one space after a period” rule. When I was a boy, we were taught two spaces, and that has stuck with me. (Blake, you and I are the same age — didn’t they teach you two spaces in school?) Seems like somewhere along the lines they changed the rule to one space, but no one gave me the memo. It was just like all of a sudden people started doing one space and complaining about those of us who continued to do as we were taught.
I am embarrassed to admit that I didn’t even know what a page break was until maybe last year. And even then, I’ve never really known how to use one nor why to use one.
I also have a hard time remembering the new “one space after a period” rule. When I was a boy, we were taught two spaces, and that has stuck with me. (Blake, you and I are the same age — didn’t they teach you two spaces in school?) Seems like somewhere along the lines they changed the rule to one space, but no one gave me the memo. It was just like all of a sudden people started doing one space and complaining about those of us who continued to do as we were taught.
Yeah, I never got that memo, either. Judging by the manuscripts I receive, neither did roughly half of us. There’s a deep schism in America today – one that can only be bridged by peace, understanding, and maybe machetes.
Ever try laying out a play? Don’t ever publish a play. You’ll wind up killing puppies, guaranteed.
Yeah, I never got that memo, either. Judging by the manuscripts I receive, neither did roughly half of us. There’s a deep schism in America today – one that can only be bridged by peace, understanding, and maybe machetes.
Ever try laying out a play? Don’t ever publish a play. You’ll wind up killing puppies, guaranteed.
Double space after period is a rule from the days of typewriters. If you were taught to write on computers you should have been taught single spaces. (This has to do with monospaced fonts on typewriters, which are not used on computers at all… unless you are a nut who uses courier!)
What if you did a thing in the email where you accept the manuscript, saying please proofread carefully, make real page breaks, and take out double space after periods, and any other formatting things, and then send it back to us? I agree that it is overboard to say it in the sub guidelines, but maybe you can have more specific “accepted” guidelines or something.
Double space after period is a rule from the days of typewriters. If you were taught to write on computers you should have been taught single spaces. (This has to do with monospaced fonts on typewriters, which are not used on computers at all… unless you are a nut who uses courier!)
What if you did a thing in the email where you accept the manuscript, saying please proofread carefully, make real page breaks, and take out double space after periods, and any other formatting things, and then send it back to us? I agree that it is overboard to say it in the sub guidelines, but maybe you can have more specific “accepted” guidelines or something.
Although I must admit I normally just do the return thing!
Does this really affect your reading of a manuscript much adam?
Although I must admit I normally just do the return thing!
Does this really affect your reading of a manuscript much adam?
I abhor the Flash format; working with it always makes life difficult.
I abhor the Flash format; working with it always makes life difficult.
I can’t stand it in manuscripts. Really looks so ugly to me. The other thing is that people inevitably add an extra space now and then, meaning if they normally double space they do a triple space every few paragraphs. Add in the fact that proportional fonts make a single space appear like a double space, and suddenly there are sentences with FOUR spaces between them.
I can’t stand it in manuscripts. Really looks so ugly to me. The other thing is that people inevitably add an extra space now and then, meaning if they normally double space they do a triple space every few paragraphs. Add in the fact that proportional fonts make a single space appear like a double space, and suddenly there are sentences with FOUR spaces between them.
I feel it’s something people should learn.
“Gen Y” (hate the term and maybe generational theories in general, but use it anyway) people (probably not all your submitter are this age, but some of them, yeah?) are totally funny, I think, about being super technologically astute on the one-hand, but not knowing the basics of software on the other.
I mean you don’t want to send someone a document with carriage return page breaks in the “work world” either, that shit’s just tacky and unprofessional.
I feel it’s something people should learn.
“Gen Y” (hate the term and maybe generational theories in general, but use it anyway) people (probably not all your submitter are this age, but some of them, yeah?) are totally funny, I think, about being super technologically astute on the one-hand, but not knowing the basics of software on the other.
I mean you don’t want to send someone a document with carriage return page breaks in the “work world” either, that shit’s just tacky and unprofessional.
Just who exactly are you trying to piss off here?
Just who exactly are you trying to piss off here?
Yeah, I grew up in the eighties. We had one room in our school with a couple of Apple IIe computers where we could play Oregon Trail after school. We certainly weren’t taught to write on them.
Yeah, I grew up in the eighties. We had one room in our school with a couple of Apple IIe computers where we could play Oregon Trail after school. We certainly weren’t taught to write on them.
Amen, Adam. AMEN. Page breaks are your friend. This might seem like a little thing but when you’re trying to prepare work for publication it can be a real hassle. Also, writers, please please please use the Header function instead of manually inserting a header below the header space so that when I try to copy and paste your work into our online template, I don’t have to go back through and remove your header.
Amen, Adam. AMEN. Page breaks are your friend. This might seem like a little thing but when you’re trying to prepare work for publication it can be a real hassle. Also, writers, please please please use the Header function instead of manually inserting a header below the header space so that when I try to copy and paste your work into our online template, I don’t have to go back through and remove your header.
I can’t speak for Adam, but as an editor I have to say that its really annoying. Often times, something weird happens and then a poem will start at the bottom of the previous page with like two lines and while good writing is good writing and can overcome these sorts of things, when you’re reading 100 submissions a week, well-formatted manuscripts make life easier.
I can’t speak for Adam, but as an editor I have to say that its really annoying. Often times, something weird happens and then a poem will start at the bottom of the previous page with like two lines and while good writing is good writing and can overcome these sorts of things, when you’re reading 100 submissions a week, well-formatted manuscripts make life easier.
It takes two seconds to “find” two spaces and “replace” with one spaces, which should be fine for most prose pieces. Unless they have weird formatting somewhere, there shouldn’t be any place that actually requires two spaces in a row. I know because I always forget and put in two spaces and then fix it before sending it out
Writers do not read acceptance guidelines. I am currently experiencing an emotional crisis about this because it is shocking at how little people actually read for comprehension.
It takes two seconds to “find” two spaces and “replace” with one spaces, which should be fine for most prose pieces. Unless they have weird formatting somewhere, there shouldn’t be any place that actually requires two spaces in a row. I know because I always forget and put in two spaces and then fix it before sending it out
Writers do not read acceptance guidelines. I am currently experiencing an emotional crisis about this because it is shocking at how little people actually read for comprehension.
Preach it.
Preach it.
we will never learn, ever. as a copyeditor i know. and if we do it’ll be something else. and this is why i (professionally) exist.
we will never learn, ever. as a copyeditor i know. and if we do it’ll be something else. and this is why i (professionally) exist.
You’ve got to cut some slack to us old fuckers that learned to type on manual typewriters though. That habit’s hard to break (as this comment shows).
You’ve got to cut some slack to us old fuckers that learned to type on manual typewriters though. That habit’s hard to break (as this comment shows).
I got taught two spaces after a period on a computer in the mid-late 90s
I got taught two spaces after a period on a computer in the mid-late 90s
a lot of people got taught to type on computers by people who were taught to type on manual typewriters. once the computron got invented it was clear to see where sentences began. it’s a plague, a disease. kill the baby.
a lot of people got taught to type on computers by people who were taught to type on manual typewriters. once the computron got invented it was clear to see where sentences began. it’s a plague, a disease. kill the baby.
On behalf of the two spaces between sentences I would like to say I think they are beautiful.
And that it must be lonely to be one space.
And I know this is wrong.
But truly I feel this.
On behalf of the two spaces between sentences I would like to say I think they are beautiful.
And that it must be lonely to be one space.
And I know this is wrong.
But truly I feel this.
wickett, does this mean you’re submitting poetry/flash manuscripts now?!
wickett, does this mean you’re submitting poetry/flash manuscripts now?!
I will never be able to break myself of the two spaces between sentences. And I do like that extra room to breathe between sentences.
I will never be able to break myself of the two spaces between sentences. And I do like that extra room to breathe between sentences.
amen.
Ha! Yep, that’s me, poems being sent all over the literary landscape to be laughed at and ridiculed. You’ve read the only thing I’ve written that was meant to be fiction in the past 20 years. I was referring more to things like this, comments (where again, each of my periods is followed by two blank spaces). It’s just a habit and one I seem to be quite unwilling to break.
amen.
Ha! Yep, that’s me, poems being sent all over the literary landscape to be laughed at and ridiculed. You’ve read the only thing I’ve written that was meant to be fiction in the past 20 years. I was referring more to things like this, comments (where again, each of my periods is followed by two blank spaces). It’s just a habit and one I seem to be quite unwilling to break.
beautiful like bowlegs and macrame?
maybe.
wait, i disagree.
beautiful like bowlegs and macrame?
maybe.
wait, i disagree.
One of the (many) problems with this site is that people don’t criticize other people, or things enough. Like the two spaces thing. I expected a much bigger shitstorm.
Good news is that in HTML you can leave two spaces which will convert to one space as long as you don’t say white space pre.
One of the (many) problems with this site is that people don’t criticize other people, or things enough. Like the two spaces thing. I expected a much bigger shitstorm.
Good news is that in HTML you can leave two spaces which will convert to one space as long as you don’t say white space pre.
Beautiful like wide-set eyes. Or like a detached caboose. Goodbye old sentence! Stay over there!
Beautiful like wide-set eyes. Or like a detached caboose. Goodbye old sentence! Stay over there!
sue your teacher
sue your teacher
I’ve honestly never had a problem with this, as an editor myself.
I’ve honestly never had a problem with this, as an editor myself.
its difficult to format a piece in html that has two-space breaks. it will understand one space, but you can’t just type multiple spaces, it always reverts to one space. To add two spaces you actually need to type in nbspnbsp every time. though i’m probably the only editor doing old school formatting.
its difficult to format a piece in html that has two-space breaks. it will understand one space, but you can’t just type multiple spaces, it always reverts to one space. To add two spaces you actually need to type in nbspnbsp every time. though i’m probably the only editor doing old school formatting.
two spaces is the sign of a clueless amateur, like copyright notices.
rabble rabble rabble grrr
howzat?
two spaces is the sign of a clueless amateur, like copyright notices.
rabble rabble rabble grrr
howzat?
The single space to me has always been a given. The problem I have is not really knowing when to add in a paragraph break, or if I shouldn’t even add one at all. If I ever do decide to make a paragraph break, then something neurotic inside of me makes me want to make every following paragraph the EXACT SAME LENGTH.
The single space to me has always been a given. The problem I have is not really knowing when to add in a paragraph break, or if I shouldn’t even add one at all. If I ever do decide to make a paragraph break, then something neurotic inside of me makes me want to make every following paragraph the EXACT SAME LENGTH.
It’s good, good!
It’s good, good!
No offense, but I imagine anyone who thinks two spaces looks pleasing is typing that while wearing a glow-in-the-dark airbrush unicorn t-shirt and sitting below a Thomas Kincaid painting print while Nickelback plays in the background.
No offense, but I imagine anyone who thinks two spaces looks pleasing is typing that while wearing a glow-in-the-dark airbrush unicorn t-shirt and sitting below a Thomas Kincaid painting print while Nickelback plays in the background.
It doesn’t affect my reading of the manuscript, but like Roxane it doesn’t go unnoticed. What happens is I say to myself: This is pretty good, but dammit, I’m going to HATE laying this out. It’s like I have to do a layout before I do the layout, fixing those things.
It doesn’t affect my reading of the manuscript, but like Roxane it doesn’t go unnoticed. What happens is I say to myself: This is pretty good, but dammit, I’m going to HATE laying this out. It’s like I have to do a layout before I do the layout, fixing those things.
Do you mean if you are publishing a book or something? That makes sense. But if we are just talking a magazine submission you are probably only going to take one poem or so anyway and the lack of page breaks shouldn’t matter…or does it?
You people are scaring me. I just finished a flash MSS. WTF? I’m going to go look at format. I am stupid.
Do you mean if you are publishing a book or something? That makes sense. But if we are just talking a magazine submission you are probably only going to take one poem or so anyway and the lack of page breaks shouldn’t matter…or does it?
I will give you your two-spaces. Like Amy said, they’re easy to fix with the Ctrl-F.
Not using page breaks, on the other hand, hurts my scrolling finger.
I will give you your two-spaces. Like Amy said, they’re easy to fix with the Ctrl-F.
Not using page breaks, on the other hand, hurts my scrolling finger.
Not true. I took “keyboarding” in high school in the early nineties, and we were taught two spaces. It took me years to unlearn this.
Not true. I took “keyboarding” in high school in the early nineties, and we were taught two spaces. It took me years to unlearn this.
i have to second this.
i get a stomach ache reading all the comments. i don’t know what is going on. i’m ‘scared’. sort of like how i felt in 9th grade as other guys in gym class talked about doing certain things with girls.
i have to second this.
i get a stomach ache reading all the comments. i don’t know what is going on. i’m ‘scared’. sort of like how i felt in 9th grade as other guys in gym class talked about doing certain things with girls.
No, it is true. You were just taught wrong. Single space is a bygone rule from the typewriter days because of their monospacing. If your teacher taught you that in the 90s its just because they were some old luddite who didn’t realize how computers work.
No, it is true. You were just taught wrong. Single space is a bygone rule from the typewriter days because of their monospacing. If your teacher taught you that in the 90s its just because they were some old luddite who didn’t realize how computers work.
Double space I mean, obviously.
Double space I mean, obviously.
me too. all this complaining makes me want to never send anything anywhere if editors really scrutinize format this much. there’s no way i’m going to care this much about formatting for the sake of what any given editor wants given every editor wants every given want.
me too. all this complaining makes me want to never send anything anywhere if editors really scrutinize format this much. there’s no way i’m going to care this much about formatting for the sake of what any given editor wants given every editor wants every given want.
this comment by heather is gorgeous
this comment by heather is gorgeous
i took keyboarding in the early nineties in high school also. i don’t remember if i learned two space there. i don’t remember what i learned in high school.
That’s exactly it. Layout can be tedious and to have to go in and deal with these weird formatting issues sometimes makes me lose it a little.
Lincoln, in terms of the page breaks, I think of working with In Design and sometimes, that lack of page breaks just makes the layout more difficult. It’s hard to explain why. I could well be doing something wrong. It’s just a frustration that has evolved because every writer has some weird thing (I include myself in this judgment) they do with their manuscript that makes layout hellacious. Fortunately, this has never kept me from accepting something I loved and it allows me to participate in one of my favorite pastimes–complaining.
Dear HTMLGiant Secret Santa,
I don’t know if you have already bought me my present, but just in case, please see Lincoln’s note for things I already own and do not need.
Love,
Heather
i took keyboarding in the early nineties in high school also. i don’t remember if i learned two space there. i don’t remember what i learned in high school.
That’s exactly it. Layout can be tedious and to have to go in and deal with these weird formatting issues sometimes makes me lose it a little.
Lincoln, in terms of the page breaks, I think of working with In Design and sometimes, that lack of page breaks just makes the layout more difficult. It’s hard to explain why. I could well be doing something wrong. It’s just a frustration that has evolved because every writer has some weird thing (I include myself in this judgment) they do with their manuscript that makes layout hellacious. Fortunately, this has never kept me from accepting something I loved and it allows me to participate in one of my favorite pastimes–complaining.
Dear HTMLGiant Secret Santa,
I don’t know if you have already bought me my present, but just in case, please see Lincoln’s note for things I already own and do not need.
Love,
Heather
darby, you’re making it hard for me to rationalize all my abjective rejections stemming from your being a real stickler for formatting.
Lincoln, respect my t-shirt!
darby, you’re making it hard for me to rationalize all my abjective rejections stemming from your being a real stickler for formatting.
Lincoln, respect my t-shirt!
Yeah, I’m talking about a book. I see the confusion.
This week I’ve spent 12 hours on one book.
Yeah, I’m talking about a book. I see the confusion.
This week I’ve spent 12 hours on one book.
No, this makes a lot more sense talking about layout. I guess I’d thought we were just talking about reading slush stuff, but yeah layout is a different beast.
And that’s just the page layout, which should be pretty standard. I’m not using a lot of fonts or anyting.
No, this makes a lot more sense talking about layout. I guess I’d thought we were just talking about reading slush stuff, but yeah layout is a different beast.
And that’s just the page layout, which should be pretty standard. I’m not using a lot of fonts or anyting.
There’s no need to stress. These things don’t affect the consideration process. They affect the actual publishing process from which the writer is largely removed.
yeah, I can totally see this fucking stuff up on layout!
There’s no need to stress. These things don’t affect the consideration process. They affect the actual publishing process from which the writer is largely removed.
yeah, I can totally see this fucking stuff up on layout!
hmm, i feel even more obsequious than usual saying the “like copyright notices” made me laugh
Adam, I feel your pain. I just finished PANK 4 and the problem with dealing with experimental work is that you’re also dealing with a lot of nontraditional formatting. I cried a little when I sent it off to the printer last night.
hmm, i feel even more obsequious than usual saying the “like copyright notices” made me laugh
Adam, I feel your pain. I just finished PANK 4 and the problem with dealing with experimental work is that you’re also dealing with a lot of nontraditional formatting. I cried a little when I sent it off to the printer last night.
Speaking of PANK 4, I am very excited about that and A Burch’s chap, which I just ordered. His title is about as cool as one can be.
Speaking of PANK 4, I am very excited about that and A Burch’s chap, which I just ordered. His title is about as cool as one can be.
i’ll throw the ‘There’s no need to stress’ back atcha re: formatting.
i’ll throw the ‘There’s no need to stress’ back atcha re: formatting.
macrame!
macrame!
friend erlewine, why is your name now “bruiser brody” ??
friend erlewine, why is your name now “bruiser brody” ??
have you become a porn star? a professional wrestler? are you hiding from the boys in gym class?
have you become a porn star? a professional wrestler? are you hiding from the boys in gym class?
liked the guy as a kid until he was mauled/killed in puerto rico after a match (in the shower!). there is some serious drama involving his death.
hmm, i’d be like costanza as a porn star…something lame like buck naked or carl marks or john hagler.
and yes i am still sort of hiding from the boys in gym class and little bitches at work who like to say i’m not productive.
hope you’re good, tim!
liked the guy as a kid until he was mauled/killed in puerto rico after a match (in the shower!). there is some serious drama involving his death.
hmm, i’d be like costanza as a porn star…something lame like buck naked or carl marks or john hagler.
and yes i am still sort of hiding from the boys in gym class and little bitches at work who like to say i’m not productive.
hope you’re good, tim!
if everyone shared and swallowed their pride then we’d say the day when nobody died
if everyone shared and swallowed their pride then we’d say the day when nobody died
Dave, got the chapbook proof yesterday, peed my pants. It’s hot. They’ll be shipping in early January.
Dave, got the chapbook proof yesterday, peed my pants. It’s hot. They’ll be shipping in early January.
I suppose it is a matter of perspective.
I suppose it is a matter of perspective.
Oh, there really was a wrestler named bruiser brody…. I thought it was a made-up name.
I love bizarre wrestler deaths. Like that guy who fell while rapeling from the ceiling into the ring. Somebody should do a chapbook of bizarre wrestler deaths.
Oh, there really was a wrestler named bruiser brody…. I thought it was a made-up name.
I love bizarre wrestler deaths. Like that guy who fell while rapeling from the ceiling into the ring. Somebody should do a chapbook of bizarre wrestler deaths.
I am one of those Gen Y people, apparently. I never knew that ‘ctrl+enter’ thing. I’ve always just hit enter a bunch of times. But now I know. And knowing is half the battle.
I am one of those Gen Y people, apparently. I never knew that ‘ctrl+enter’ thing. I’ve always just hit enter a bunch of times. But now I know. And knowing is half the battle.
oh man, you had to go and reference owen hart and make me feel even worse! the bruiser brody story is insane – check it out if you get a chance (and now i’m going to change my htmlgiant tag just to be even more random
http://www.crowbarpress.com/column/guest-10.htm
and yeah your chapbook idea is killer (hee). seriously, i’d buy that chap for a lot of money.
oh man, you had to go and reference owen hart and make me feel even worse! the bruiser brody story is insane – check it out if you get a chance (and now i’m going to change my htmlgiant tag just to be even more random
http://www.crowbarpress.com/column/guest-10.htm
and yeah your chapbook idea is killer (hee). seriously, i’d buy that chap for a lot of money.
excellent, roxane! that will be here really soon.
excellent, roxane! that will be here really soon.
Oh, God, Adam, I hope you’re not referring to me!
Oh, God, Adam, I hope you’re not referring to me!
No, yours was easy. But you should start using page breaks nonetheless.
No, yours was easy. But you should start using page breaks nonetheless.
i feel really stupid now. you’re probably bitching about me. (or someone like me.) damn, that sucks. pressing enter a bunch of times…
i feel really stupid now. you’re probably bitching about me. (or someone like me.) damn, that sucks. pressing enter a bunch of times…
Man, I don’t know. I mean I try to pay attention to that stuff, but at some point it’s time for editors to edit. We have to do all this stuff for our writers. Like, everything. Seems like part of the job.
Man, I don’t know. I mean I try to pay attention to that stuff, but at some point it’s time for editors to edit. We have to do all this stuff for our writers. Like, everything. Seems like part of the job.
there should be a website dedicated to the ‘one space after periods’ rule as well as the ‘page breaks please’ rule, perhaps it could be a subsection of htmlgiant. please make this apparent to anyone and everyone.
there should be a website dedicated to the ‘one space after periods’ rule as well as the ‘page breaks please’ rule, perhaps it could be a subsection of htmlgiant. please make this apparent to anyone and everyone.
I would love it if there was a place I could go and read up on all these *rules.* Seriously, I am so clueless. I don’t want to sub shitty looking fiction, but I don’t know this stuff. I didn’t go to uni, I have never had a teacher explain how to set stuff out. I’m so old that we didn’t have computers at school. I am self taught, I grub around a little, I piece things together. I have never used a page break. I don’t know what a fucking page break is. I only use one space after full stops, so that’s something. It’s quite horrid to imagine someone hating my sub because it is set out badly.
I would love it if there was a place I could go and read up on all these *rules.* Seriously, I am so clueless. I don’t want to sub shitty looking fiction, but I don’t know this stuff. I didn’t go to uni, I have never had a teacher explain how to set stuff out. I’m so old that we didn’t have computers at school. I am self taught, I grub around a little, I piece things together. I have never used a page break. I don’t know what a fucking page break is. I only use one space after full stops, so that’s something. It’s quite horrid to imagine someone hating my sub because it is set out badly.