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Narrative Magazine is edited by George W. Bush
It seems a lot harder for an online literary journal to be smarmy in the way of Zoetrope: All Story: since it’s the web, usually there’s a bit more wide of a perspective, and you tend to get a better grab bag of unusual work.
Narrative Magazine is near the top of my list of online journals that feel like they are edited by George W. Bush.
First off, you have to ‘join’ the site so you can even read the posts. It’s a free website, but in order to have ‘backstage access’ (is this Guns N Roses?) you have to sign up and let them spam you, which honestly is probably too much hassle for a lot of people. Geesh.
Moreso, though, it’s the content. Right now on the site they are featuring a story by Kate Chopin…
Yes, that Kate Chopin, and no I am not kidding. I mean, in case you didn’t feel claustrophobic enough reading the Awakening in high school, they figured they should give you a chance to catch up with the new new shit. MMM.
For the most part, also, Narrative is known as a place where ‘slush pile’ is a thing that curdles in the whey.
Which is weird, considering their TWENTY DOLLAR SUBMISSION FEE, which I will discuss more after the jump.
Have you seen this? This online magazine wants you to pay them $20 to submit your story or $10 for a set of five poems (up from $5 a pop whenever I last looked a year or so ago). They offset this idea by the fact that they dont ‘charge for subscriptions’ to their WEB JOURNAL (though they do offer print versions that are $16 on amazon only). Well, wee ha! That is purely criminal, especially considering a journal that publishes so many already large names that are clearly solicited, as you can tell by looking at their Duotrope stats, which state that out of the last 98 subs they’ve gotten, they’ve taken 2, and it took them 65 days to on average to reply to the rejection.
I am so confused over the $20 thing, I am going to post the sub guidelines right here:
Submission Fees: Narrative is a nonprofit organization with the ambition of encouraging good literary work. We do not charge readers for the magazine. We do charge a nominal submission fee, which helps cover the basic administrative costs related to receiving, reading, and responding to submissions. Also, a portion of the reading fee helps fund our annual Narrative Prize. Our desire is to connect readers and writers, and we strongly encourage anyone interested in submitting work to read the magazine before submitting. You may read the magazine for free. If you enjoy reading it and wish to submit, we hope you will feel that the reading fee, which is lower than most literary magazine subscription fees, is more than justified by the quality of the work the magazine offers. We are strongly committed to publishing debut and emerging writers. The reading fee is $20 for prose manuscripts, $10 for up to five poems, and $10 for audio submissions.
I really feel disgusted. I won’t even get into the content-wise shitting on Narrative that I was going to get into, about how they only seem to publish a very specific kind of writing by a certain sect of people, but since I don’t feel like joining the site and signing in, that will have to be gleaned by just looking at the front page.
I can’t even say anything else.
Tags: george w. bush, narrative magazine
i feel like they have ‘good’ intentions, or at least don’t have like ‘evil’ goals, in their minds, but are just really confused, like if you forced a giraffe or peacock or something to start a literary magazine
i got a ameritrade account, i’m going to fund muumuu house in part with profits from the stock market
i feel like they have ‘good’ intentions, or at least don’t have like ‘evil’ goals, in their minds, but are just really confused, like if you forced a giraffe or peacock or something to start a literary magazine
i got a ameritrade account, i’m going to fund muumuu house in part with profits from the stock market
i think i have had thoughts that it is ‘absurd’ when i think about narrative, i think one time i tried to sign up but had problems and gave up, since then i have looked at it with feelings of absurdity
i think one time i paid $20 to be in their contest
i would read a journal run by peacock
i wish narrative was run by a peacock
$20 to have your story read to be on a website seems completely exploitative to me, in a bad way
good luck on the market, i got my dickhole ripped
i think i have had thoughts that it is ‘absurd’ when i think about narrative, i think one time i tried to sign up but had problems and gave up, since then i have looked at it with feelings of absurdity
i think one time i paid $20 to be in their contest
i would read a journal run by peacock
i wish narrative was run by a peacock
$20 to have your story read to be on a website seems completely exploitative to me, in a bad way
good luck on the market, i got my dickhole ripped
i paid once too
i paid once too
i thought edited by george bush was funny, i think that is more accurate than peacock or giraffe, i forgot about the george bush thing in your post or wouldn’t have said giraffe or peacock
george bush should guest edit the next zoetrope
i thought edited by george bush was funny, i think that is more accurate than peacock or giraffe, i forgot about the george bush thing in your post or wouldn’t have said giraffe or peacock
george bush should guest edit the next zoetrope
if W edited zoetrope it would be the first issue of zoetrope i ever bought
if W edited zoetrope it would be the first issue of zoetrope i ever bought
$20 reading fee is ‘sad’ though, i imagine someone without much money paying the fee a few times and getting yelled at by their wife, then getting rejected and seeing ann beattie got accepted and hitting the computer screen, maybe lying to their wife, the marriage deteriorating
$20 reading fee is ‘sad’ though, i imagine someone without much money paying the fee a few times and getting yelled at by their wife, then getting rejected and seeing ann beattie got accepted and hitting the computer screen, maybe lying to their wife, the marriage deteriorating
i think its sad too. haha i would like to read a story about that happening to someone
i think its sad too. haha i would like to read a story about that happening to someone
someone should write a ‘carver-esque’ story using the plot i just described and submit it to narrative
someone should write a ‘carver-esque’ story using the plot i just described and submit it to narrative
This is a good post. I thought the same when I saw the Chopin story some days ago. I thought, they must be hard up for submissions or something. Anyway, they are not trying to push literature forward. They are trying to go into the past.
This is a good post. I thought the same when I saw the Chopin story some days ago. I thought, they must be hard up for submissions or something. Anyway, they are not trying to push literature forward. They are trying to go into the past.
Although, they pay well. We are not talking about that yet.
i have nothing to do sort of right now, i think i’m going to write the story about a marriage deteriorating due to reading fees
Although, they pay well. We are not talking about that yet.
i have nothing to do sort of right now, i think i’m going to write the story about a marriage deteriorating due to reading fees
they pay well if you get accepted, in the random event. it’s bush-esque.
i am excited to read the story
they pay well if you get accepted, in the random event. it’s bush-esque.
i am excited to read the story
Mark drove home from Domino’s with a 2-liter bottle of Mr. Pibb. In the garage he drank half the 2-liter bottle and went inside. He walked past his wife in the kitchen who looked up briefly from boiling pasta with a bored face and went in the computer room. Mark opened his Hotmail account. He had been rejected by A Public Space and the New Yorker. He printed out the rejection letters and put them in his wallet to look at the next day while delivering pizzas. He reread the story that was rejected from A Public Space. The story was about a man who orders a pizza but the pizza never comes and the man is too depressed to call back. It ends with the man screaming “fuck” at his toy poodle in misdirected anger.
Mark typed his credit card number into the Narrative website and clicked “submit.” He thought he might be overdrafting his checking account but he was distracted by the possibility of being accepted by Narrative and being published alongside Ann Beattie and Rick Bass. He submitted both the misdirected anger story and another story about a construction worker that steals a piece of wood and puts it in his room, angering his wife, who believes the man loves pieces of wood more than her. Mark received emails saying his $40 for both submissions had been accepted and that his story would be read within 90 days.
Mark went in the kitchen and ate pasta in fear that his wife knew what he had done. Their two children came in the kitchen and Mark looked at them with fear that they knew what he had done.
“Where are my crayons,” said Katie, who was in kindergarten.
“In the car,” said Mark with fear in his voice, as he had forgotten to stop by Kmart on the way home. He had been thinking about A Public Space. “I’ll go get them.”
Mark left the kitchen sweating. He got in his car and drove to Kmart really fast. He got crayons and remembered he said he would buy his wife a new cutting board. At the checkout his checking card wasn’t working. “Fuck,” he thought. He calculated that his account was probably now at negative $105, counting his overdraft fees. He stood at the checkout counter sweating and looking around. He knew he was fucked, but maybe he would be happy if Narrative read his story in 90 days, passed it on to the next round of readers, accepted the story within 200 days, and printed the story in 400 days alongside Rick Bass and maybe Rick Moody.
Mark drove home from Domino’s with a 2-liter bottle of Mr. Pibb. In the garage he drank half the 2-liter bottle and went inside. He walked past his wife in the kitchen who looked up briefly from boiling pasta with a bored face and went in the computer room. Mark opened his Hotmail account. He had been rejected by A Public Space and the New Yorker. He printed out the rejection letters and put them in his wallet to look at the next day while delivering pizzas. He reread the story that was rejected from A Public Space. The story was about a man who orders a pizza but the pizza never comes and the man is too depressed to call back. It ends with the man screaming “fuck” at his toy poodle in misdirected anger.
Mark typed his credit card number into the Narrative website and clicked “submit.” He thought he might be overdrafting his checking account but he was distracted by the possibility of being accepted by Narrative and being published alongside Ann Beattie and Rick Bass. He submitted both the misdirected anger story and another story about a construction worker that steals a piece of wood and puts it in his room, angering his wife, who believes the man loves pieces of wood more than her. Mark received emails saying his $40 for both submissions had been accepted and that his story would be read within 90 days.
Mark went in the kitchen and ate pasta in fear that his wife knew what he had done. Their two children came in the kitchen and Mark looked at them with fear that they knew what he had done.
“Where are my crayons,” said Katie, who was in kindergarten.
“In the car,” said Mark with fear in his voice, as he had forgotten to stop by Kmart on the way home. He had been thinking about A Public Space. “I’ll go get them.”
Mark left the kitchen sweating. He got in his car and drove to Kmart really fast. He got crayons and remembered he said he would buy his wife a new cutting board. At the checkout his checking card wasn’t working. “Fuck,” he thought. He calculated that his account was probably now at negative $105, counting his overdraft fees. He stood at the checkout counter sweating and looking around. He knew he was fucked, but maybe he would be happy if Narrative read his story in 90 days, passed it on to the next round of readers, accepted the story within 200 days, and printed the story in 400 days alongside Rick Bass and maybe Rick Moody.
i really enjoyed writing that, ‘mean week’ is inspirational
i really enjoyed writing that, ‘mean week’ is inspirational
ha
ha
we are now a literary journal
we are now a literary journal
champion
champion
“He thought he might be overdrafting his checking account but he was distracted by the possibility of being accepted by Narrative and being published alongside Ann Beattie and Rick Bass.”
i am happy, i can sleep now
“He thought he might be overdrafting his checking account but he was distracted by the possibility of being accepted by Narrative and being published alongside Ann Beattie and Rick Bass.”
i am happy, i can sleep now
mark drinking the entire bottle of mr pibb before going in to check his email is so good
mark drinking the entire bottle of mr pibb before going in to check his email is so good
That story is kind of heartbreaking.
This gem from Narrative’s guidelines I think was lost in translation: “organization with the ambition of encouraging good literary work.”
That story is kind of heartbreaking.
This gem from Narrative’s guidelines I think was lost in translation: “organization with the ambition of encouraging good literary work.”
I really liked the Maud Newton non-fiction piece they published- I think it was a “love story” contest and it was not very loving – it was really fucked up and good. But I do think they could try a little harder to publish less “vanilla’ work. I read them occasionally and sometimes get mad at how boring they are. Is it that hard to find something engaging? It can’t be. Same goes for The Missouri Review these days. I stopped subscribing.
That said, I’ve submitted a few times to Narrative. I don’t mind paying 20 bucks. It’s less than a sushi dinner. If you can afford to make time to write, than you can afford to spend some money trying to get your shit out there. But I do mind–very much– that they then mostly publish solicited work by the likes of Ann Beattie (who I like, but still). I don’t think they have a good balance of unknown and known…they should work on that. And they publish almost no “experimental” that I’ve read, and that’s this site’s thing, so- conflict of interest.
Mostly, BB was very funny and made good points. I also like, BB, how you kept the tone of it professional. You were funny, but not adolescent in your critique. Good job.
I really liked the Maud Newton non-fiction piece they published- I think it was a “love story” contest and it was not very loving – it was really fucked up and good. But I do think they could try a little harder to publish less “vanilla’ work. I read them occasionally and sometimes get mad at how boring they are. Is it that hard to find something engaging? It can’t be. Same goes for The Missouri Review these days. I stopped subscribing.
That said, I’ve submitted a few times to Narrative. I don’t mind paying 20 bucks. It’s less than a sushi dinner. If you can afford to make time to write, than you can afford to spend some money trying to get your shit out there. But I do mind–very much– that they then mostly publish solicited work by the likes of Ann Beattie (who I like, but still). I don’t think they have a good balance of unknown and known…they should work on that. And they publish almost no “experimental” that I’ve read, and that’s this site’s thing, so- conflict of interest.
Mostly, BB was very funny and made good points. I also like, BB, how you kept the tone of it professional. You were funny, but not adolescent in your critique. Good job.
“ate pasta in fear” ha
narrative is very strange, they did everything backwards or something, i am confused why it exists, “non-journal”
their $3,000 prizes feel kind of sad and lonely
“ate pasta in fear” ha
narrative is very strange, they did everything backwards or something, i am confused why it exists, “non-journal”
their $3,000 prizes feel kind of sad and lonely
The name of the magazine is NARRATIVE. How fucking experimental do you think it’s going to be?
As the great Tony Towle once wrote in a poem called “Addenda”:
>>If you want to empathize with menstruation subscribe to Poetry Magazine,
if you don’t, don’t,<<
I’m all for calling magazines out on their shit (cf. my pissy comment re New Pages, posted yesterday), and I’m damn sure in no hurry to go read that Kate Chopin story, but it seriously boggles my mind that anyone is surprised or irritated by the fact that a magazine which focuses on mainstream literary realist fiction mostly publishes—-horror of fucking horrors—mainstream literary realist fiction.
The name of the magazine is NARRATIVE. How fucking experimental do you think it’s going to be?
As the great Tony Towle once wrote in a poem called “Addenda”:
>>If you want to empathize with menstruation subscribe to Poetry Magazine,
if you don’t, don’t,<<
I’m all for calling magazines out on their shit (cf. my pissy comment re New Pages, posted yesterday), and I’m damn sure in no hurry to go read that Kate Chopin story, but it seriously boggles my mind that anyone is surprised or irritated by the fact that a magazine which focuses on mainstream literary realist fiction mostly publishes—-horror of fucking horrors—mainstream literary realist fiction.
you think narrative fiction can’t be new? narrative fiction can be new.
and charging people $20 to see if they ‘make it’ is nauseating.
that’s all i’m saying.
you think narrative fiction can’t be new? narrative fiction can be new.
and charging people $20 to see if they ‘make it’ is nauseating.
that’s all i’m saying.
hey i’m not disagreeing with either of those things. i’ve never sent them a submission, and i dont suppose i will this week either.
and yeah, you can always do new things with narrative–or why would we be trying to?
all i’m saying is there’s only so much blame you can put on a cat for being a cat. at some point, instead of berating your cat for not playing catch with you, shouldn’t you go out and get the dog you obviously wanted in the first place?
hey i’m not disagreeing with either of those things. i’ve never sent them a submission, and i dont suppose i will this week either.
and yeah, you can always do new things with narrative–or why would we be trying to?
all i’m saying is there’s only so much blame you can put on a cat for being a cat. at some point, instead of berating your cat for not playing catch with you, shouldn’t you go out and get the dog you obviously wanted in the first place?
Narrative writing can be outrageous, fucked up, painful, truth seeking, thought provoking and so on. And too often, Narrative Mag publishes stuff that just is none of the above. It’s a quality thing for me. I think they need to take more risks. I got no problem with 20 bucks.
Justin point about cats and dogs is right on, though.
Narrative writing can be outrageous, fucked up, painful, truth seeking, thought provoking and so on. And too often, Narrative Mag publishes stuff that just is none of the above. It’s a quality thing for me. I think they need to take more risks. I got no problem with 20 bucks.
Justin point about cats and dogs is right on, though.
if all these people have no problem sending $20 to have their story read, i am going to open DickTater Monthly and charge your asses $19 for the read, what a steal, actually I should call it 1st Person Present Magazine.
I agree though, justin, if you don’t like it, don’t go near it. the $20 thing just strikes me, as we’ve said above, as sad, and exploitative. but yeah. my cat shit in my hair.
if all these people have no problem sending $20 to have their story read, i am going to open DickTater Monthly and charge your asses $19 for the read, what a steal, actually I should call it 1st Person Present Magazine.
I agree though, justin, if you don’t like it, don’t go near it. the $20 thing just strikes me, as we’ve said above, as sad, and exploitative. but yeah. my cat shit in my hair.
I think Darby Larson also hit on something important when he asked when we’re going to start talking about money– not in terms of what they charge but in terms of what they pay. Nobody seems to want to engage him re that.
But I have to be honest: I think there’s a large, and largely unacknowledged, sentiment at work here. People are “against” Narrative and things like it (Zoetrope seems to draw a lot of fire), in part because you feel like you “deserve” the sort of attention and compensation their writers get, but you want it for the kind of work you in particular are doing.
Gene Morgan is a good model to look at here. Bear Parade pays $500 per e-book. At that price, it can basically have anybody it wants, including but not limited to yours truly; and I include myself as a relevant example only because they’ve rejected me so many fucking times. Why? Because I don’t usually get within a country mile of their House Style (cf. Lin, Tao; German, Zachary; Kennedy, Ellen), a style I respect and appreciate but am not prepared to imitate. Why won’t they expand their aesthetic parameters? I don’t know. Could that aesthetic stand for some critical assessment? Probably. But when I’m starting to organize that critique in my head, it sounds suspiciously like what I’m arguing for is really the inclusion of ME, and that self-awareness gives me the kind of pause I’m not really seeing in some of the critical comments on this thread.
I think Darby Larson also hit on something important when he asked when we’re going to start talking about money– not in terms of what they charge but in terms of what they pay. Nobody seems to want to engage him re that.
But I have to be honest: I think there’s a large, and largely unacknowledged, sentiment at work here. People are “against” Narrative and things like it (Zoetrope seems to draw a lot of fire), in part because you feel like you “deserve” the sort of attention and compensation their writers get, but you want it for the kind of work you in particular are doing.
Gene Morgan is a good model to look at here. Bear Parade pays $500 per e-book. At that price, it can basically have anybody it wants, including but not limited to yours truly; and I include myself as a relevant example only because they’ve rejected me so many fucking times. Why? Because I don’t usually get within a country mile of their House Style (cf. Lin, Tao; German, Zachary; Kennedy, Ellen), a style I respect and appreciate but am not prepared to imitate. Why won’t they expand their aesthetic parameters? I don’t know. Could that aesthetic stand for some critical assessment? Probably. But when I’m starting to organize that critique in my head, it sounds suspiciously like what I’m arguing for is really the inclusion of ME, and that self-awareness gives me the kind of pause I’m not really seeing in some of the critical comments on this thread.
PS- when I said “prepared” I should have added “or, possibly, even able” to imitate. I don’t mean to diminish the style I’m describing by suggesting it’s beneath my time or interest to be part of it. The fact is that I haven’t spent much time exploring writing in that fashion, but I have no particular reason to think I would be successful if I made the attempt. Even during MEAN WEEK, there should be–and is–much respect where it’s due. Cheers-
PS- when I said “prepared” I should have added “or, possibly, even able” to imitate. I don’t mean to diminish the style I’m describing by suggesting it’s beneath my time or interest to be part of it. The fact is that I haven’t spent much time exploring writing in that fashion, but I have no particular reason to think I would be successful if I made the attempt. Even during MEAN WEEK, there should be–and is–much respect where it’s due. Cheers-
How is 20 dollars exploitative? My 12 yr old saves his allowance for a few weeks and he could come up with the cash. Missouri Review charges- not 20, but whatever, we are talking about a few dollars here. I’m confused.
I liked all of Justin’s points re: darby’s post and the whole style club thing.
How is 20 dollars exploitative? My 12 yr old saves his allowance for a few weeks and he could come up with the cash. Missouri Review charges- not 20, but whatever, we are talking about a few dollars here. I’m confused.
I liked all of Justin’s points re: darby’s post and the whole style club thing.
you’re exploiting hopes if you charge to read. there are all sorts of paying markets that don’t charge to read. pretty much only idiots are going to fork out cash for nothing, right? why pay for what can easily be had for free? the thing is, people think they’re getting something w/ their $20. they think they’re getting more serious consideration, maybe. maybe they’re just buying a signature on a rejection letter, or the e-equivalent of that–i don’t know. but, i mean, there’s no question it’s exploitation. it’s textbook exploitation. the writers are without power or influence, and you have both. you’ve got the power, and you put it to use….
you’re exploiting hopes if you charge to read. there are all sorts of paying markets that don’t charge to read. pretty much only idiots are going to fork out cash for nothing, right? why pay for what can easily be had for free? the thing is, people think they’re getting something w/ their $20. they think they’re getting more serious consideration, maybe. maybe they’re just buying a signature on a rejection letter, or the e-equivalent of that–i don’t know. but, i mean, there’s no question it’s exploitation. it’s textbook exploitation. the writers are without power or influence, and you have both. you’ve got the power, and you put it to use….
OK, I sort of get that. But I’ve spent tons of money making copies and mailing stuff out- that’s about 5 bucks right there- to paying markets that don’t charge reading fees, but you still are paying to submit. Less, for sure. I think that was Missouri Review’s thing- 3 or 5 bucks, the same it would cost to send the ms, basically.
Anyway, S. I get your point. I guess having worked in the past for lit mags I know it is nearly impossible to pay yourself 5 bucks an hour doing the work you do to keep them going, even if you spend gazillions of hours writing for grants….It’s not a big money business, on any level. Never was. Still isn’t.
OK, I sort of get that. But I’ve spent tons of money making copies and mailing stuff out- that’s about 5 bucks right there- to paying markets that don’t charge reading fees, but you still are paying to submit. Less, for sure. I think that was Missouri Review’s thing- 3 or 5 bucks, the same it would cost to send the ms, basically.
Anyway, S. I get your point. I guess having worked in the past for lit mags I know it is nearly impossible to pay yourself 5 bucks an hour doing the work you do to keep them going, even if you spend gazillions of hours writing for grants….It’s not a big money business, on any level. Never was. Still isn’t.
I’m always looking at it in terms of a fee/pay ratio together, not separate things. I remember McSweeneys was doing some contests a while back that were no fee with like $3000 prize, and that’s the highest ratio I think I’ve seen. $20 for I don’t know, $400 (is that what they pay?). It’s not horrible (there was some show on recently about little girls who enter pageants and the fee to enter the pageant was $900 and the highest winnable prize was $1000 – that is disgusting), but I’d like more transparency on their part, like where exactly does it go, how many submissions do they get, and are they throwing lavish parties paid for by reading fees? I’ve paid the $20 before, but I’m not sure I will anymore. I think that Chopin piece bothered me a lot. I just read that recently, flipping through an old lit textbook. The story is highly available just about anywhere. It’s like, your $20 is not just competing with other writers’s $20, but basically any previously published thing anywhere.
Also, they do have open submission timeframes where there is no reading fee, and I think the fee is significantly smaller for this new story of the week thing they are doing.
Another thing though is this new design they have now with the gigantic author picture on the left. I don’t like that. I can’t concentrate on reading a story when the author is staring me down.
I’m always looking at it in terms of a fee/pay ratio together, not separate things. I remember McSweeneys was doing some contests a while back that were no fee with like $3000 prize, and that’s the highest ratio I think I’ve seen. $20 for I don’t know, $400 (is that what they pay?). It’s not horrible (there was some show on recently about little girls who enter pageants and the fee to enter the pageant was $900 and the highest winnable prize was $1000 – that is disgusting), but I’d like more transparency on their part, like where exactly does it go, how many submissions do they get, and are they throwing lavish parties paid for by reading fees? I’ve paid the $20 before, but I’m not sure I will anymore. I think that Chopin piece bothered me a lot. I just read that recently, flipping through an old lit textbook. The story is highly available just about anywhere. It’s like, your $20 is not just competing with other writers’s $20, but basically any previously published thing anywhere.
Also, they do have open submission timeframes where there is no reading fee, and I think the fee is significantly smaller for this new story of the week thing they are doing.
Another thing though is this new design they have now with the gigantic author picture on the left. I don’t like that. I can’t concentrate on reading a story when the author is staring me down.
Or maybe they’re really doing what they say they are with the money– namely using it. Most print journals charge some sort of reading fee, many by forcing you to buy a subscription. That’s nice of them, since you get a few issues of a magazine along with your rejection letter, and it helps the magazine out by pumping up their subscription numbers.
The other thing reading fees do is they make people think twice about submitting. I can see the advantage in that. If Narrative has set their fee a bit high (and given that it comes with no subscription, I believe that they have), it may be in part to ensure that the people who submit to them are actually those who know their work and share–in whatever sense–their values.
Think of it like a cover charge at a night-club. Yeah the club keeps the cover cash, but that’s not what they’re making bank on. A whole night’s worth of door fees probably doesn’t cover the electric it costs to run the place. What the cover charge does is help ensure that the people who are there are those who actually want to be there. And again: paying the cover charge doesn’t guarantee you will be the one who gets to dance on the bar or go home with the DJ, but it does help keep the Goths from moping up Reggae Night.
Last word on this…maybe. After all this talk about Narrative magazine, I finally browsed over there. Turns out they’re currently running a FREE contest:
>>Narrative is calling on writers, visual artists, photographers, performers, and filmmakers, ages eighteen to thirty, to tell us a story. We are interested in narrative in the many forms it takes: the word and the image, the traditional and the innovative, the true and the imaginary.<<
Since I happen to fall into a few of those categories (writers, under thirty, a story) and since FREE meets my previous criteria of not costing $20, I think I’m gonna go enter their contest.
Or maybe they’re really doing what they say they are with the money– namely using it. Most print journals charge some sort of reading fee, many by forcing you to buy a subscription. That’s nice of them, since you get a few issues of a magazine along with your rejection letter, and it helps the magazine out by pumping up their subscription numbers.
The other thing reading fees do is they make people think twice about submitting. I can see the advantage in that. If Narrative has set their fee a bit high (and given that it comes with no subscription, I believe that they have), it may be in part to ensure that the people who submit to them are actually those who know their work and share–in whatever sense–their values.
Think of it like a cover charge at a night-club. Yeah the club keeps the cover cash, but that’s not what they’re making bank on. A whole night’s worth of door fees probably doesn’t cover the electric it costs to run the place. What the cover charge does is help ensure that the people who are there are those who actually want to be there. And again: paying the cover charge doesn’t guarantee you will be the one who gets to dance on the bar or go home with the DJ, but it does help keep the Goths from moping up Reggae Night.
Last word on this…maybe. After all this talk about Narrative magazine, I finally browsed over there. Turns out they’re currently running a FREE contest:
>>Narrative is calling on writers, visual artists, photographers, performers, and filmmakers, ages eighteen to thirty, to tell us a story. We are interested in narrative in the many forms it takes: the word and the image, the traditional and the innovative, the true and the imaginary.<<
Since I happen to fall into a few of those categories (writers, under thirty, a story) and since FREE meets my previous criteria of not costing $20, I think I’m gonna go enter their contest.
Free? How about age discrimination?
Free? How about age discrimination?
I hate not being a young writer.
I hate not being a young writer.
me too, apparently. A few years ago, I would’ve thought, hey, a contest for me. Now I think, why are they having a contest for children?
me too, apparently. A few years ago, I would’ve thought, hey, a contest for me. Now I think, why are they having a contest for children?
Ha! Darby is funny.
Ha! Darby is funny.
I hate not being a single man living in new york writer with no children. I lost that contest.
There are a lot of people I like that do not fit in bear parade’s very narrow set of aesthetics, and I have only a certain amount of money to spend on buying books from people before I can’t afford pampers.
If I had unlimited money, I would have a bunch of sites where I did the exact same thing for other styles of writing, but because I have no ads and no source of income from bear parade, I am forced to heavily limit what is published.
For now, that limitation is a third grade reading level.
I hate not being a single man living in new york writer with no children. I lost that contest.
There are a lot of people I like that do not fit in bear parade’s very narrow set of aesthetics, and I have only a certain amount of money to spend on buying books from people before I can’t afford pampers.
If I had unlimited money, I would have a bunch of sites where I did the exact same thing for other styles of writing, but because I have no ads and no source of income from bear parade, I am forced to heavily limit what is published.
For now, that limitation is a third grade reading level.
Also, reading fees are silly and antiquated. I think that’s my only hold-up with them.
It costs very little to run a website in comparison to a print journal.
Also, reading fees are silly and antiquated. I think that’s my only hold-up with them.
It costs very little to run a website in comparison to a print journal.
Also, fuck you.
Also, fuck you.
Agree completely. Twenty bucks just to read my short story? Eat my shorts.
Agree completely. Twenty bucks just to read my short story? Eat my shorts.
Carol and Tom Jenks who run Narrative are money-grubbing slime balls. It’s the word on the street. Also, another word on the street is “asshole” which a prominant writer I know used when asked about Tom. Specifically, “he’s an asshole.” They are in this for the money, which, thankfully, seems pretty clear to anyone with half a brain who looks at their site. Personally, I am sad that Story Quarterly got into bed with them. It’s too bad, Story Quarterly was a great journal. Why they would partner with Bonnie & Clyde is a mystery. It’s either simply shortsighted, or they were too tired to stick it out on their own.
Carol and Tom Jenks who run Narrative are money-grubbing slime balls. It’s the word on the street. Also, another word on the street is “asshole” which a prominant writer I know used when asked about Tom. Specifically, “he’s an asshole.” They are in this for the money, which, thankfully, seems pretty clear to anyone with half a brain who looks at their site. Personally, I am sad that Story Quarterly got into bed with them. It’s too bad, Story Quarterly was a great journal. Why they would partner with Bonnie & Clyde is a mystery. It’s either simply shortsighted, or they were too tired to stick it out on their own.
Is that Richard Bausch, the novelist? I’ve read your books. You’re great. I’m confused about your opinons here. My guess is you are not being sarcastic? Wow. Strong stuff. Anyway, excellent to see you on this website.
Is that Richard Bausch, the novelist? I’ve read your books. You’re great. I’m confused about your opinons here. My guess is you are not being sarcastic? Wow. Strong stuff. Anyway, excellent to see you on this website.
I am really curious as to who that actually was.
I am really curious as to who that actually was.
Someone pretending to be Bausch? Im guessing it really was him. Anyway, if it were him, congrats to BB, for attracting him. I think he rocks, and I like to see some more established (OK, old like me) writers hanging here. Sometimes I feel like a chicken hawk type, you know. But man, those were some harsh words for Jenks and people. I also get confused as to why wanting to make money is bad. It is only bad if you sell your soul, but I think that Jenks and peeps are trying to do good, I just don’t think they are very brave. THAT said, the Maud Newton piece was insanely great. And I’ll argue with you forever on the 20 bucks thing, BB. I spend more than that at the bar twcie a week.
Someone pretending to be Bausch? Im guessing it really was him. Anyway, if it were him, congrats to BB, for attracting him. I think he rocks, and I like to see some more established (OK, old like me) writers hanging here. Sometimes I feel like a chicken hawk type, you know. But man, those were some harsh words for Jenks and people. I also get confused as to why wanting to make money is bad. It is only bad if you sell your soul, but I think that Jenks and peeps are trying to do good, I just don’t think they are very brave. THAT said, the Maud Newton piece was insanely great. And I’ll argue with you forever on the 20 bucks thing, BB. I spend more than that at the bar twcie a week.
This is Richard Bausch, and this is also the FIRST and ONLY posting I have put on this site: somebody is impersonating me, apparently, and I am going to get to the bottom of it with the force of law.
For the record: Tom Jenks is a very strong force for good in the world of writing, a first rate man and a colleague who has my respect and admiration and affection; and Narrative Magazine is a great idea and a publication I am proud to be associated with. I have never met Carol Jenks but I know she is not the person this slanderer says she is, and I am also sure I’ll love her as a friend whenever I do get to meet her.
I have nothing but pity for the person who cannot evidently muster the courage to be whoever he/she is, on this site. But doing what he/she did is exactly equivalent to writing on a bathroom wall, and shame on you. Talk about ‘slime balls.’ Slime ball indeed.
Richard Bausch, novelist and story writer
This is Richard Bausch, and this is also the FIRST and ONLY posting I have put on this site: somebody is impersonating me, apparently, and I am going to get to the bottom of it with the force of law.
For the record: Tom Jenks is a very strong force for good in the world of writing, a first rate man and a colleague who has my respect and admiration and affection; and Narrative Magazine is a great idea and a publication I am proud to be associated with. I have never met Carol Jenks but I know she is not the person this slanderer says she is, and I am also sure I’ll love her as a friend whenever I do get to meet her.
I have nothing but pity for the person who cannot evidently muster the courage to be whoever he/she is, on this site. But doing what he/she did is exactly equivalent to writing on a bathroom wall, and shame on you. Talk about ‘slime balls.’ Slime ball indeed.
Richard Bausch, novelist and story writer
I like this story (more K-Mart than Carver but anyway)…which is a good and enjoyable account of what reading fees are and do because only desperate people pay them. Actually only desperate writers, and even if they many writers who are not very good writes are also desperate writers there are also many writers who are good writers who are desperate writers. Desperation does not care about “quality.” A Public Space and before this The Paris Review have driven me into similar situations of forgetting birthdays, crayons for my daughter, etc. I once spent money meant for xeroxing literary magazine flyers on pizza because I couldn’t normally afford pizza but someone gave me money to make xerox of flyers for a literary magazine at Kinkos..
I like this story (more K-Mart than Carver but anyway)…which is a good and enjoyable account of what reading fees are and do because only desperate people pay them. Actually only desperate writers, and even if they many writers who are not very good writes are also desperate writers there are also many writers who are good writers who are desperate writers. Desperation does not care about “quality.” A Public Space and before this The Paris Review have driven me into similar situations of forgetting birthdays, crayons for my daughter, etc. I once spent money meant for xeroxing literary magazine flyers on pizza because I couldn’t normally afford pizza but someone gave me money to make xerox of flyers for a literary magazine at Kinkos..
Publishing 20 bucks to publish someone’s pixels seems offensive. I suspect the Robert Olen Butlers and etc they publish do not really know what they are participating in. Perhaps they are thinking if Tom Jenks is involved it must be good because The Garden of Eden was pretty good.
But yes, I am very late coming in on this thread, but narrative fiction, I agree, can be new. Even literary realistic fiction can be “new” I think. I don’t think there is such a phrase as “mainstream literary realistic fiction” anymore, unless Justin Taylor means “memoir.”
Publishing 20 bucks to publish someone’s pixels seems offensive. I suspect the Robert Olen Butlers and etc they publish do not really know what they are participating in. Perhaps they are thinking if Tom Jenks is involved it must be good because The Garden of Eden was pretty good.
But yes, I am very late coming in on this thread, but narrative fiction, I agree, can be new. Even literary realistic fiction can be “new” I think. I don’t think there is such a phrase as “mainstream literary realistic fiction” anymore, unless Justin Taylor means “memoir.”
Yes Story Quarterly was very good when it was Story Quarterly. Well, it only came out once a year, however. I don’t understand that. But any old issue you can find, is good for the most part. The first time I realized there was a writer named Stephen Dixon was in Story Quarterly. I might have read other stories by him before this but didn’t think, who is this, until the story I read in Story Quarterly. And then I bought his collected stories published by Henry Holt (that still hasn’t come out in paper?!?) His collected stories is my favorite book by Stephen Dixon.
Yes Story Quarterly was very good when it was Story Quarterly. Well, it only came out once a year, however. I don’t understand that. But any old issue you can find, is good for the most part. The first time I realized there was a writer named Stephen Dixon was in Story Quarterly. I might have read other stories by him before this but didn’t think, who is this, until the story I read in Story Quarterly. And then I bought his collected stories published by Henry Holt (that still hasn’t come out in paper?!?) His collected stories is my favorite book by Stephen Dixon.
Dear Richard Bausch,
Wow whoever posted as you kind of did a good job because now I thought they were you and now it makes me wonder if this second post really is Richard Bauch or if it someone associated with Narrative Magazine.
I also wonder if you got to the bottom of it with the force of law. How can such a thing be determined technically? I imagine the law would like to protect identity — I think this one of these things anyone can type a string in in the name field and it shows up as them.
That is part of the whole weird thing about charging 20 bucks to consider a story for publication by pixels. It is just pixels. Make typos. Impersonate someone.
Dear Richard Bausch,
Wow whoever posted as you kind of did a good job because now I thought they were you and now it makes me wonder if this second post really is Richard Bauch or if it someone associated with Narrative Magazine.
I also wonder if you got to the bottom of it with the force of law. How can such a thing be determined technically? I imagine the law would like to protect identity — I think this one of these things anyone can type a string in in the name field and it shows up as them.
That is part of the whole weird thing about charging 20 bucks to consider a story for publication by pixels. It is just pixels. Make typos. Impersonate someone.
Dear Person Pretending to be Matt Briggs:
I am excited by the prospect that Richard Bausch used the internet. I am not, however, excited by someone pretending to be me, even if it is me pretending to be someone else pretending to be. Who would pretend to be?
Thanks, Matt Briggs
Dear Person Pretending to be Matt Briggs:
I am excited by the prospect that Richard Bausch used the internet. I am not, however, excited by someone pretending to be me, even if it is me pretending to be someone else pretending to be. Who would pretend to be?
Thanks, Matt Briggs
It was actually me, Matt, Robert Olen Butler. You might not remember it, but you were in my workshop in 1991 and ever since then I have been watching you and thinking about you and waiting TO BE YOU online (for free). Luv, Bob
It was actually me, Matt, Robert Olen Butler. You might not remember it, but you were in my workshop in 1991 and ever since then I have been watching you and thinking about you and waiting TO BE YOU online (for free). Luv, Bob
Very interesting article, as are some of your other posts. I have bookmarked your great site for future visits.
Very interesting article, as are some of your other posts. I have bookmarked your great site for future visits.
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