Random
Noah Cicero on Why Writers Write
[Noah Cicero sent this to me last week. And yes, it is another (slight) commentary on a review of Shoplifting from American Apparel. It’s more than that, too. If you’re unfamiliar with Noah Cicero’s writing, you can visit his blog, or check out his latest book The Insurgent. -Gene]
In one of the reviews of Tao Lin’s Shoplifting from American Apparel Huw Nesbitt makes the statement, “Real art seeks to examine the truth as it is; not through relativism, atomism, or universalism, but by seeking that which once was or irrevocably, true.” If you have read analytic philosophy your first thought after reading those lines will probably be, “Those sentences don’t make any sense.” The proposition, “the truth as it is,” is actually relativism and universal in its meaning. How can something be true but not universal is a contradiction. To not believe in cultural relativism is to not believe in sociology which was a theory proposed by Leo Strauss. In his book Natural Right and History which described how sociology was evil because it leads to liberal nihilism. Leo Strauss is also the philosopher that neocons hold up as a their primary inspiration. Nesbitt then states, “but by seeking that which once was or irrevocably, true.” This statement is strange, I had to look up the word irrevocably to get an exact definition. Irrevocably means, “A decision impossible to retract or revoke.”
You can use the word irrevocably when talking about having a baby or going to war, basically starting something you have to continue to its end. I’m assuming that Nesbitt means when he states, “but by seeking that which once was or irrevocably, true” that truth is like war or having a baby and that one must continue to the end with their truth. Which is also of the conservative mindset. That one must pick a truth at an early age and never let it go no matter what information may come into play.
I sat and thought, “What makes writing? Why does a writer write?” Here are some personal ideas. These are not maxims, just some ideas from a random person who likes to read and write.
Anxiety: A writer is full of anxiety and writes to try to come to terms with their reality or choices. To try to give language to what they are feeling.
Feelings: They have feelings without words, feelings surging up in them and they are trying to give the feelings words, sentences, images, to try to understand them.
Love: They love something, can’t stop thinking about it and want to write about it because they can’t get it out of their mind.
Thought of something: They noticed something, thought of something, they assume other people might want to hear.
Forgiveness: This is a strange one, but can be seen in many writings. Jean Rhys always seems to be asking forgiveness for her strange behavior. Richard Wright seems to be asking for the behavior of black people reduced to poverty and white people being misled by their culture about black people. Richard Yates seems to be asking for forgiveness about suburban people.
Not having anyone to talk to, so they write: Some people have a hard time with impromptu conversation, but they still want to express themselves so they retreat to their computers and write.
I don’t think this ‘makes literature’ anything. But I believe these are some things literature is about for some people.
Tags: Noah Cicero, shoplifting from american apparel
Very nicely put, Noah. We are not acquainted, but I’ll be including an extra copy of Pop Serial in the mail to BW, and it will have your name on it :)
Very nicely put, Noah. We are not acquainted, but I’ll be including an extra copy of Pop Serial in the mail to BW, and it will have your name on it :)
Interesting post.
I think I fall into the ‘Thought of something’ camp more than any other, but only where my factual writing is concerned. My poetry is usually ‘distorted truth’, I suppose, from my own life. It serves the same purpose as the photographs people take of parties and upload to Facebook: it’s documentation and sharing. It’s also necessarily selective in what it documents and shares.
When I write fiction, the germ of the idea usually comes from something I’ve thought of, but that isn’t the motivation. I just enjoy the process of writing, perhaps because it’s something which I’ve though of as being a cool thing to do, according to my own idea of what’s ‘cool’, since I was little.
Sort of off topic, I don’t know what to make of this: ‘To not believe in cultural relativism is to not believe in sociology which was a theory proposed by Leo Strauss. In his book Natural Right and History which described how sociology was evil because it leads to liberal nihilism.’ I find the sentence break jarring. Is it supposed to be naturalistic or replicate thought, or something?
I may have been thinking the wrong way for some time.
Interesting post.
I think I fall into the ‘Thought of something’ camp more than any other, but only where my factual writing is concerned. My poetry is usually ‘distorted truth’, I suppose, from my own life. It serves the same purpose as the photographs people take of parties and upload to Facebook: it’s documentation and sharing. It’s also necessarily selective in what it documents and shares.
When I write fiction, the germ of the idea usually comes from something I’ve thought of, but that isn’t the motivation. I just enjoy the process of writing, perhaps because it’s something which I’ve though of as being a cool thing to do, according to my own idea of what’s ‘cool’, since I was little.
Sort of off topic, I don’t know what to make of this: ‘To not believe in cultural relativism is to not believe in sociology which was a theory proposed by Leo Strauss. In his book Natural Right and History which described how sociology was evil because it leads to liberal nihilism.’ I find the sentence break jarring. Is it supposed to be naturalistic or replicate thought, or something?
I may have been thinking the wrong way for some time.
Are you folks paid to mention Tao Lin’s name a certain number of times per week?
Are you folks paid to mention Tao Lin’s name a certain number of times per week?
Anybody read Tan Lin’s new book yet?
Anybody read Tan Lin’s new book yet?
there is a bukowski poem (the name I forget) in which he states that it is a compulsion, something that comes ‘roaring’ out of you. i would consider myself sort of in that camp. all of those camps above seem like parts of the whole to me, like the reason i write is just a product of me being raised immersed in language and literature.
here is another reason to write: to justify an MFA. one more: getting chicks in scarves to bang you.
there is a bukowski poem (the name I forget) in which he states that it is a compulsion, something that comes ‘roaring’ out of you. i would consider myself sort of in that camp. all of those camps above seem like parts of the whole to me, like the reason i write is just a product of me being raised immersed in language and literature.
here is another reason to write: to justify an MFA. one more: getting chicks in scarves to bang you.
‘I write because I want every woman in the world to fall in love with me.’ — Charles Simic
‘I write because I want every woman in the world to fall in love with me.’ — Charles Simic
your prose is too limpid
your prose is too limpid
Noah Cicero is the funniest writer in America.
Noah Cicero is the funniest writer in America.
AGREED
HOW CAN ANYONE POST: “To not believe in cultural relativism is to not believe in sociology which was a theory proposed by Leo Strauss. In his book Natural Right and History which described how sociology was evil because it leads to liberal nihilism. Leo Strauss is also the philosopher that neocons hold up as a their primary inspiration.”
IS THIS AN OLD SCHOOL ESSAY
good show
AGREED
HOW CAN ANYONE POST: “To not believe in cultural relativism is to not believe in sociology which was a theory proposed by Leo Strauss. In his book Natural Right and History which described how sociology was evil because it leads to liberal nihilism. Leo Strauss is also the philosopher that neocons hold up as a their primary inspiration.”
IS THIS AN OLD SCHOOL ESSAY
good show
truth is like having a baby. except when truth is like having an abortion.
truth is like having a baby. except when truth is like having an abortion.
Then I’d think truth would be a bit like having an aborted baby.
Then I’d think truth would be a bit like having an aborted baby.
and then the aborted baby puts on a scarf and bangs mfa students.
i like the part above about jean rhys. hadn’t thought of it that way.
and then the aborted baby puts on a scarf and bangs mfa students.
i like the part above about jean rhys. hadn’t thought of it that way.
i think i write because i have
“a dysfunctional relationship with paper products”
i think i write because i have
“a dysfunctional relationship with paper products”
*robert clark young said that*
*robert clark young said that*
I write because the kind of girls I like to have sex with are the kind of girls who like to sleep with guys who write in order to get laid.
I write because the kind of girls I like to have sex with are the kind of girls who like to sleep with guys who write in order to get laid.
Sorry to derail this thread, but can anyone explain to me the Tao Lin group’s obsession with single quotation marks? To my knowledge they are all American, so why do they use British quote marks? Does it have something to do with K-Mart Realism? Do they even have K-Marts in England? Topman Realism?
Sorry to derail this thread, but can anyone explain to me the Tao Lin group’s obsession with single quotation marks? To my knowledge they are all American, so why do they use British quote marks? Does it have something to do with K-Mart Realism? Do they even have K-Marts in England? Topman Realism?
ponctuation sans frontières
ponctuation sans frontières
love is a full-time job
love is a full-time job
am ‘finally’ reading “good morning, midnight.” so far seems ‘awesome.’
am ‘finally’ reading “good morning, midnight.” so far seems ‘awesome.’
single quotation marks use less space than double
single quotation marks use less space than double
ha. “je ne sais pas, c’est parce que, parce que… aucune idee, monsieur ‘confuse’……”
ha. “je ne sais pas, c’est parce que, parce que… aucune idee, monsieur ‘confuse’……”
it is awesome, Good Morning, Midnight. After Leaving Mr. Mackenzie i like a lot too. something about the simplicity of style in the latter i like.
it is awesome, Good Morning, Midnight. After Leaving Mr. Mackenzie i like a lot too. something about the simplicity of style in the latter i like.
this is a weird sentence fragment: “In his book Natural Right and History which described how sociology was evil because it leads to liberal nihilism.”
which makes me think Noah didn’t read his post before sending it
sounds like I am being judgmental but I don’t mean to be, I am just trying to point out something
this is a weird sentence fragment: “In his book Natural Right and History which described how sociology was evil because it leads to liberal nihilism.”
which makes me think Noah didn’t read his post before sending it
sounds like I am being judgmental but I don’t mean to be, I am just trying to point out something
thanks, alan, will have to check that out as well. i read “wide sargasso sea” in college and wasn’t as struck by it. also, i am very intrigued by jean rhys’ relationship with ford madox ford. “the good soldier” is another book of the same time period with a not entirely dissimilar style—economical, suggestive, playful.
thanks, alan, will have to check that out as well. i read “wide sargasso sea” in college and wasn’t as struck by it. also, i am very intrigued by jean rhys’ relationship with ford madox ford. “the good soldier” is another book of the same time period with a not entirely dissimilar style—economical, suggestive, playful.
ZZZZIPP,
He could’ve just said, “He’s an asshole because, like Strauss, he doesn’t believe in sociology.”
But even then, that’s a hell of an assertion to make based solely on one’s idea of art, which may not be consistent with their idea of society as a whole.
Also, the way that sentence is written (I had to read that three times), would lead the reader to believe that Strauss’s book proposed the theory of sociology as opposed to being against it.
ZZZZIPP,
He could’ve just said, “He’s an asshole because, like Strauss, he doesn’t believe in sociology.”
But even then, that’s a hell of an assertion to make based solely on one’s idea of art, which may not be consistent with their idea of society as a whole.
Also, the way that sentence is written (I had to read that three times), would lead the reader to believe that Strauss’s book proposed the theory of sociology as opposed to being against it.
Did not expect this as an explanation. Interesting. Although since we don’t use typewriters anymore and computer programs adjust the spacing of symbols, the difference seems moot.
Did not expect this as an explanation. Interesting. Although since we don’t use typewriters anymore and computer programs adjust the spacing of symbols, the difference seems moot.
me neither about Wide Sargasso Sea. don’t remember why. i don’t know. i think i remember hearing that ford maddox ford really helped her career out, but at the same time he screwed her over. or, maybe not ‘at the same time,’ but you know. need to pick up The Good Soldier now. i keep not reading that book because it’s called The Good Soldier.
me neither about Wide Sargasso Sea. don’t remember why. i don’t know. i think i remember hearing that ford maddox ford really helped her career out, but at the same time he screwed her over. or, maybe not ‘at the same time,’ but you know. need to pick up The Good Soldier now. i keep not reading that book because it’s called The Good Soldier.
I’ve been into one of your so-called ‘K-Marts’ and can assure you that they are in no way equatable to our Topmen.
I’ve been into one of your so-called ‘K-Marts’ and can assure you that they are in no way equatable to our Topmen.
‘Netto Realism’
‘Netto Realism’
nice one. heath.
nice one. heath.
cest nest pas un pipe
cest nest pas un pipe
That’s not a pipe, THIS is a pipe.
That’s not a pipe, THIS is a pipe.
single quotes are like the “all-lower-case” version of quotation marks.
single quotes are like the “all-lower-case” version of quotation marks.
its not a matter of pragmatism. its a statement of minimalism.
thats not the real reason though.
the reason is because single quotes are known to give things a sense of theres-something-more-behind-these-words. double quotes just means dialogue or something. you cant use double quotes to imply the same thing, it would just be confusing.
why am i commenting on this?
its not a matter of pragmatism. its a statement of minimalism.
thats not the real reason though.
the reason is because single quotes are known to give things a sense of theres-something-more-behind-these-words. double quotes just means dialogue or something. you cant use double quotes to imply the same thing, it would just be confusing.
why am i commenting on this?
theres-something-more-behind-these-words
that’s not right at all
theres-something-more-behind-these-words
that’s not right at all
Crocodile Magritte
Crocodile Magritte
Whoops forgot the link
Whoops forgot the link
In America double quotes are used to mean theres-something-more-behind-these-words. Never seen people do scare quotes, as they are called, with single quotes before the tao lin crew, which is why i asked.
In America double quotes are used to mean theres-something-more-behind-these-words. Never seen people do scare quotes, as they are called, with single quotes before the tao lin crew, which is why i asked.
see this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scare_quotes
see this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scare_quotes
blatt’s got a cool logo
blatt’s got a cool logo
James Ellroy said this almost word for word on the BBC a while ago. Seems it’s a common motivation. Not sure it has so much sway with my generation, but we can (and do) dream…
James Ellroy said this almost word for word on the BBC a while ago. Seems it’s a common motivation. Not sure it has so much sway with my generation, but we can (and do) dream…
Netto is ghetto
Netto is ghetto
‘Occurrence of the term in academic literature appears as “early” as the 1950s.’
that article is ‘fucking’ ‘meta’
‘Occurrence of the term in academic literature appears as “early” as the 1950s.’
that article is ‘fucking’ ‘meta’
Yeah. I saw that. I wonder if in-jokes are discouraged in the Wikipedia guidelines.
Yeah. I saw that. I wonder if in-jokes are discouraged in the Wikipedia guidelines.
Do Kmarts even exist anymore? Someone should write a big article about the late-2000 and 2010’s “Kmart Realism” revival and call it “Walmart Realism” or something.
“Ebay Realism.”
Do Kmarts even exist anymore? Someone should write a big article about the late-2000 and 2010’s “Kmart Realism” revival and call it “Walmart Realism” or something.
“Ebay Realism.”
“Gmail Realism.”
“Gmail Realism.”
I write because there is no alternative.
[“Real art seeks to examine the truth as it is; not through relativism, atomism, or universalism, but by seeking that which once was or irrevocably, true.” If you have read analytic philosophy your first thought after reading those lines will probably be, “Those sentences don’t make any sense.”]
that is funny. the thing is though, if you’re interested in analytic philosophy, your instincts are just as likely to say “those sentences make some sense, but that sense is vague”. being fair, I have tried to read them in their best possible light.
“the truth as it is”. sounds tautological. is probably meant to express the notion that ‘the truth is hidden’ somehow, e.g. appearances are false yet truth is [as it is]. seems defensible, even realist.
“not through relativism, atomism, or universalism”. yikes. seems deep. opposes relativism to truth, then opposes universalism to truth. is probably trying to say that “truth [as it is] is contingent, not analytic”. mentioning atomism makes more sense now. in this context the rejection of atomism sets the stage for a powerful truth-claim about the nature of [as it is].
“that which once was or irrevocably, true”. quite disappointing. nostalgic and unconvincing. source of aforementioned vagueness.
[“Real art seeks to examine the truth as it is; not through relativism, atomism, or universalism, but by seeking that which once was or irrevocably, true.” If you have read analytic philosophy your first thought after reading those lines will probably be, “Those sentences don’t make any sense.”]
that is funny. the thing is though, if you’re interested in analytic philosophy, your instincts are just as likely to say “those sentences make some sense, but that sense is vague”. being fair, I have tried to read them in their best possible light.
“the truth as it is”. sounds tautological. is probably meant to express the notion that ‘the truth is hidden’ somehow, e.g. appearances are false yet truth is [as it is]. seems defensible, even realist.
“not through relativism, atomism, or universalism”. yikes. seems deep. opposes relativism to truth, then opposes universalism to truth. is probably trying to say that “truth [as it is] is contingent, not analytic”. mentioning atomism makes more sense now. in this context the rejection of atomism sets the stage for a powerful truth-claim about the nature of [as it is].
“that which once was or irrevocably, true”. quite disappointing. nostalgic and unconvincing. source of aforementioned vagueness.
I don’t think ‘that which once was or irrevocably, true’ actually works, construction-wise. What do you replace with the ‘irrevocably’?
‘that which once irrevocably true’
‘that which irrevocably was true’
I also take umbrage at that comma.
(One day Noah Cicero will stumble across this comment and be like, “There is some English guy [fellow] and I don’t know him but he is taking umbrage.” His head will droop and he’ll stare at his keyboard for a while, looking rueful.)
I don’t think ‘that which once was or irrevocably, true’ actually works, construction-wise. What do you replace with the ‘irrevocably’?
‘that which once irrevocably true’
‘that which irrevocably was true’
I also take umbrage at that comma.
(One day Noah Cicero will stumble across this comment and be like, “There is some English guy [fellow] and I don’t know him but he is taking umbrage.” His head will droop and he’ll stare at his keyboard for a while, looking rueful.)
I use single quotes to distinguish between use and mention.
I use single quotes to distinguish between use and mention.
Damn, anon. Double damn.
Damn, anon. Double damn.
Sadly, though, it doesn’t work. Everybody uses Gmail.
Gchat Realism is less catchy but more accurate, if only because these certain writers incorporate it into their fiction and are the only ones to do so, currently.
Sadly, though, it doesn’t work. Everybody uses Gmail.
Gchat Realism is less catchy but more accurate, if only because these certain writers incorporate it into their fiction and are the only ones to do so, currently.
An excerpt of Noah Cicero’s “The Insurgent” can be read here:
http://muumuuhouse.com/nc.fiction3.html
An excerpt of Noah Cicero’s “The Insurgent” can be read here:
http://muumuuhouse.com/nc.fiction3.html
Those first two paragraphs make absolutely no sense. Either that, or I’m drunk.
I like the moniker “Gmail Realism” and seriously think that should be the name of a new genre.
I like the word “moniker”.
I highly recommend “Good Morning Midnight”, “Wide Sargasso Sea” (you will want to have read Jane Eyre) and “The Good Soldier”.’
OK.
Those first two paragraphs make absolutely no sense. Either that, or I’m drunk.
I like the moniker “Gmail Realism” and seriously think that should be the name of a new genre.
I like the word “moniker”.
I highly recommend “Good Morning Midnight”, “Wide Sargasso Sea” (you will want to have read Jane Eyre) and “The Good Soldier”.’
OK.
couple things:
1) i agree with you guys about that sentence, it is whack. for a second i thought maybe he was thinking of levi-strauss or something
2) i think ‘chica in scarf and heels’ was talking to alex b, who thinks that writing will get him laid or something
something something something
couple things:
1) i agree with you guys about that sentence, it is whack. for a second i thought maybe he was thinking of levi-strauss or something
2) i think ‘chica in scarf and heels’ was talking to alex b, who thinks that writing will get him laid or something
something something something
I like Gmail Realism too.
But I don’t think it works. The two notable aspects of Kmart Realism are that a) it connotes a kind of cultural meaning and b) it begins with a letter.
Gmail Realism doesn’t work because everybody uses Gmail, except really old people who still have AOL, or mindspring.com, or wherever. Gchat would be the more accurate, if less attractive sounding term.
I like Gmail Realism too.
But I don’t think it works. The two notable aspects of Kmart Realism are that a) it connotes a kind of cultural meaning and b) it begins with a letter.
Gmail Realism doesn’t work because everybody uses Gmail, except really old people who still have AOL, or mindspring.com, or wherever. Gchat would be the more accurate, if less attractive sounding term.
I like Gmail Realism too.
But I don’t think it works. The two notable aspects of Kmart Realism are that a) it connotes a kind of cultural meaning and b) it begins with a letter.
Gmail Realism doesn’t work because everybody uses Gmail, except really old people who still have AOL, or mindspring.com, or wherever. Gchat would be the more accurate, if less attractive sounding term.
i think it’s unlikely this will sort itself out today
i think it’s unlikely this will sort itself out today
i think it’s unlikely this will sort itself out today
It is funny that people are bringing this up because James and I have been batting around titles like Gmail Realism, for these writers since K-Mart Realism doesn’t seem quite accurate given that the “K-Mart” signifies poor rural older characters and these writers tend to write more about young urban (and perhaps “hip”?) characters.
Would be nice to find a two-syllable young urban store that worked well.
It is funny that people are bringing this up because James and I have been batting around titles like Gmail Realism, for these writers since K-Mart Realism doesn’t seem quite accurate given that the “K-Mart” signifies poor rural older characters and these writers tend to write more about young urban (and perhaps “hip”?) characters.
Would be nice to find a two-syllable young urban store that worked well.
It is funny that people are bringing this up because James and I have been batting around titles like Gmail Realism, for these writers since K-Mart Realism doesn’t seem quite accurate given that the “K-Mart” signifies poor rural older characters and these writers tend to write more about young urban (and perhaps “hip”?) characters.
Would be nice to find a two-syllable young urban store that worked well.
I think Gmail or Facebook or whatever may connote a kind of young modern person. I mean, it isn’t like everyone who ever shopped at K-mart was a depressed blue collar worker
I think Gmail or Facebook or whatever may connote a kind of young modern person. I mean, it isn’t like everyone who ever shopped at K-mart was a depressed blue collar worker
I think Gmail or Facebook or whatever may connote a kind of young modern person. I mean, it isn’t like everyone who ever shopped at K-mart was a depressed blue collar worker
‘Gmail realism’ makes me wanna barf. Let’s please not use that.
‘Gmail realism’ makes me wanna barf. Let’s please not use that.
‘Gmail realism’ makes me wanna barf. Let’s please not use that.
you don’t have to press down the shift key for double quotations. it’s faster.
you don’t have to press down the shift key for double quotations. it’s faster.
single i mean
single i mean
you don’t have to press down the shift key for double quotations. it’s faster.
single i mean
Top Shop Realism. Thrift Store Realism. Kombucha Realism.
Or…Stove Pipe Realism,
after the jean style http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=aeN&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=stove+pipe+jeans&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=BkO9S_yJEIr2sgPS_fCqBQ&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=7&ved=0CDUQsAQwBg
I worked at a K-mart for nine years. I like this game.
Top Shop Realism. Thrift Store Realism. Kombucha Realism.
Or…Stove Pipe Realism,
after the jean style http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=aeN&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=stove+pipe+jeans&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=BkO9S_yJEIr2sgPS_fCqBQ&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=7&ved=0CDUQsAQwBg
I worked at a K-mart for nine years. I like this game.
Top Shop Realism. Thrift Store Realism. Kombucha Realism.
Or…Stove Pipe Realism,
after the jean style http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=aeN&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=stove+pipe+jeans&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=BkO9S_yJEIr2sgPS_fCqBQ&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=7&ved=0CDUQsAQwBg
I worked at a K-mart for nine years. I like this game.
nor tomorrow
nor tomorrow
nor tomorrow
GMAIL REALISM is now the official name for the early-21st-century Kmart Realism revival as exemplified by Tao Lin et al.
GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM
GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM
GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM
GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM
GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM
GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM
GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM
GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM
If we say it enough times, it will stick.
GMAIL REALISM is now the official name for the early-21st-century Kmart Realism revival as exemplified by Tao Lin et al.
GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM
GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM
GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM
GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM
GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM
GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM
GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM
GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM
If we say it enough times, it will stick.
GMAIL REALISM is now the official name for the early-21st-century Kmart Realism revival as exemplified by Tao Lin et al.
GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM
GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM
GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM
GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM
GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM
GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM
GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM
GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM GMAIL REALISM
If we say it enough times, it will stick.
“AmAp Realism”
I think someone (Lincoln?) once mentioned the term “MacBook Realism”
Sabra, do people really call them “stove pipe jeans”? I thought it was just “skinny jeans.”
“AmAp Realism”
I think someone (Lincoln?) once mentioned the term “MacBook Realism”
Sabra, do people really call them “stove pipe jeans”? I thought it was just “skinny jeans.”
“AmAp Realism”
I think someone (Lincoln?) once mentioned the term “MacBook Realism”
Sabra, do people really call them “stove pipe jeans”? I thought it was just “skinny jeans.”
Sort of. But what about all those parents who are now tagging pictures of you and writing on your wall?
Facebook is the new MySpace (although I guess that would mean something else would have to be the new Facebook).
Sort of. But what about all those parents who are now tagging pictures of you and writing on your wall?
Facebook is the new MySpace (although I guess that would mean something else would have to be the new Facebook).
Sort of. But what about all those parents who are now tagging pictures of you and writing on your wall?
Facebook is the new MySpace (although I guess that would mean something else would have to be the new Facebook).
Skinny Jean Realism might make people with large calf muscles feel bad.
Skinny Jean Realism might make people with large calf muscles feel bad.
yeah, i think the title was almost ‘accidental’ or ‘random,’ in a way. don’t let the title stop you, it’s pretty good
Skinny Jean Realism might make people with large calf muscles feel bad.
yeah, i think the title was almost ‘accidental’ or ‘random,’ in a way. don’t let the title stop you, it’s pretty good
Urban Outfitters Realism
Urban Outfitters Realism
Urban Outfitters Realism
for some reason, ‘kombucha realism’ made me laugh…
for some reason, ‘kombucha realism’ made me laugh…
for some reason, ‘kombucha realism’ made me laugh…
Rozalia Jovanovic suggested Kambucha Realism in her review of Tao’s Shoplifting from American Apparel:
http://thefastertimes.com/indiebooks/2009/09/17/the-deceptive-simplicity-of-tao-lin-a-review-of-shoplifting-from-american-apparel/
Rozalia Jovanovic suggested Kambucha Realism in her review of Tao’s Shoplifting from American Apparel:
http://thefastertimes.com/indiebooks/2009/09/17/the-deceptive-simplicity-of-tao-lin-a-review-of-shoplifting-from-american-apparel/
Rozalia Jovanovic suggested Kambucha Realism in her review of Tao’s Shoplifting from American Apparel:
http://thefastertimes.com/indiebooks/2009/09/17/the-deceptive-simplicity-of-tao-lin-a-review-of-shoplifting-from-american-apparel/
sweet post
sweet post
sweet post
I skimmed it. She mentions that the interchangeable characters drink it a lot in the book. I haven’t read it, so I don’t know how many times it’s mentioned.
Tao used to mention that he drank Kombucha on his twitter, and ate kale (and whale) and seaweed, etc. That’s all I know. The idea of consuming a living enzyme scares me a little.
I skimmed it. She mentions that the interchangeable characters drink it a lot in the book. I haven’t read it, so I don’t know how many times it’s mentioned.
Tao used to mention that he drank Kombucha on his twitter, and ate kale (and whale) and seaweed, etc. That’s all I know. The idea of consuming a living enzyme scares me a little.
I skimmed it. She mentions that the interchangeable characters drink it a lot in the book. I haven’t read it, so I don’t know how many times it’s mentioned.
Tao used to mention that he drank Kombucha on his twitter, and ate kale (and whale) and seaweed, etc. That’s all I know. The idea of consuming a living enzyme scares me a little.
a handy job kinda job indeed
a handy job kinda job indeed
a handy job kinda job indeed
Just once in the comments:
“he drinks Kombucha. maybe his brand of realism should be called Kombucha Realism.”
Just once in the comments:
“he drinks Kombucha. maybe his brand of realism should be called Kombucha Realism.”
Just once in the comments:
“he drinks Kombucha. maybe his brand of realism should be called Kombucha Realism.”
Why are there 78 comments?
Why are there 78 comments?
Why are there 78 comments?
I’m liking Kombucha Realism now too.
Maybe Komucha Realism is a subgenre of Gmail Realism (or Gchat Realism – also good).
Macbook Realism has an expensive ring to it.
PS- Sabra- Don’t be afraid of drinking kombucha. It’s a lot like eating yogurt “with active cultures”.
I’m liking Kombucha Realism now too.
Maybe Komucha Realism is a subgenre of Gmail Realism (or Gchat Realism – also good).
Macbook Realism has an expensive ring to it.
PS- Sabra- Don’t be afraid of drinking kombucha. It’s a lot like eating yogurt “with active cultures”.
I’m liking Kombucha Realism now too.
Maybe Komucha Realism is a subgenre of Gmail Realism (or Gchat Realism – also good).
Macbook Realism has an expensive ring to it.
PS- Sabra- Don’t be afraid of drinking kombucha. It’s a lot like eating yogurt “with active cultures”.
Oh, I see it.
Oh, I see it.
Oh, I see it.
I think what makes yogurt seem most harmless is its creamy pastel. Like Miami, with less Cubans. Dolphins are cute too. I will try kombucha tomorrow, Mimi.
I think what makes yogurt seem most harmless is its creamy pastel. Like Miami, with less Cubans. Dolphins are cute too. I will try kombucha tomorrow, Mimi.
I think what makes yogurt seem most harmless is its creamy pastel. Like Miami, with less Cubans. Dolphins are cute too. I will try kombucha tomorrow, Mimi.
a 5-paragraph ‘essay’ on why attaching a brand name to ‘realism’ is dangerousif there’s one thing i hope that everyone who reads this can agree upon, is that this ‘revival’ (as mentioned by “anon” just above me) has been defined as a championing of an aesthetic that hopes to explore reality — as experienced — by suburbanite, middle-class, atomically average families and individuals in a culture inundated with so much ad hoc (pop-)cultural detritus… that any real sense of life-as-search-for-rewarding-meaning has been rendered beyond the spectrum of ‘moot’, and deposited somewhere in a landfill that might as well be the next Garden of Eden. amirite?why i believe this shaping-of-the-ways-seem-to-be is dangerous: this ‘movement’ — as i’ve read and followed as much of as i can — seems to have taken shape as an extremely passive stance to the world-at-large’s current modernity, which — at present — is notorious for rewarding every single one of you unique individuals out there for summoning the courage to share your unfettered thoughts, about this that or the other thing, with an audience comprising of vast nexuses of anonymous, virtually infinite and multi-ethno-chromatic seas of real, live, living people. but why, in such an actual transglobal-kind-of society, does writing simply have to be about the way things are? ‘writing’ should be about portraying the world as the ways thing are, the ways things were, and the way things should be. life is not a passive ride, and writing-that-is-meant-to-be-read-by-others should not be as well. writing that (apparently) champions a joyless, emotionless, robotic rundown through life is dangerous because it dwells on everything negative and worthless about what it means to be human: that a vast majority of dreams are destined to die a slow and expressionless-kind-of heat death, that experiencing unhappiness is just as important as experiencing happiness, that all of our lives are under the auspices and control of unseen, unknown and unreachable faceless multinationals, that can’t help but jowly chuckle at the lot of anyone mindlessly regurgitating plasticine, ersatz and FAKE cultural memes that have been transplanted in our brains by only the most subtly sinister of means. ‘[fill-in-the-blank] realism’ as a term is a bastardization (bitchification?) of the role writing, hell ART, is meant to play in society, but all im really trying to get at here: what this ‘revival’ is painfully lacking is a real sense of exposing the reality of its characters’ malaise, aimless despondency and null-state emotional artifices. the best metaphor i can (currently) come up with to facilitate understanding of what i’m trying to say: Consider the Television. how many people do you know that can clearly communicate how a television works? everyone knows what it is, most probably have a good understanding how one ended up in their home, but how many can open one and describe how all the images are generated? now Consider the Internet, and we’re back to the ‘modernity’ i described earlier. look up the story of the ‘frog in a well’ and that is what i see as the most dangerous aspect of all this: people are being put in wells and don’t even realize it. (also, look up ‘digital utopianism’ for why such thinking is dangerous ‘politically’)gang: we’ve got a chance to really flip the whole wide world on it’s ass, so why waste it plugging companies that champion an Old World-business-model way of looking at things? and, please, for the love of something, if you feel like responding to my mini-diatribe, try not to use a product name whilst doing so. ‘every generation needs a new revolution.’ — thomas jefferson./will rephrase my response in the form of poetry for $1.//heh.
a 5-paragraph ‘essay’ on why attaching a brand name to ‘realism’ is dangerousif there’s one thing i hope that everyone who reads this can agree upon, is that this ‘revival’ (as mentioned by “anon” just above me) has been defined as a championing of an aesthetic that hopes to explore reality — as experienced — by suburbanite, middle-class, atomically average families and individuals in a culture inundated with so much ad hoc (pop-)cultural detritus… that any real sense of life-as-search-for-rewarding-meaning has been rendered beyond the spectrum of ‘moot’, and deposited somewhere in a landfill that might as well be the next Garden of Eden. amirite?why i believe this shaping-of-the-ways-seem-to-be is dangerous: this ‘movement’ — as i’ve read and followed as much of as i can — seems to have taken shape as an extremely passive stance to the world-at-large’s current modernity, which — at present — is notorious for rewarding every single one of you unique individuals out there for summoning the courage to share your unfettered thoughts, about this that or the other thing, with an audience comprising of vast nexuses of anonymous, virtually infinite and multi-ethno-chromatic seas of real, live, living people. but why, in such an actual transglobal-kind-of society, does writing simply have to be about the way things are? ‘writing’ should be about portraying the world as the ways thing are, the ways things were, and the way things should be. life is not a passive ride, and writing-that-is-meant-to-be-read-by-others should not be as well. writing that (apparently) champions a joyless, emotionless, robotic rundown through life is dangerous because it dwells on everything negative and worthless about what it means to be human: that a vast majority of dreams are destined to die a slow and expressionless-kind-of heat death, that experiencing unhappiness is just as important as experiencing happiness, that all of our lives are under the auspices and control of unseen, unknown and unreachable faceless multinationals, that can’t help but jowly chuckle at the lot of anyone mindlessly regurgitating plasticine, ersatz and FAKE cultural memes that have been transplanted in our brains by only the most subtly sinister of means. ‘[fill-in-the-blank] realism’ as a term is a bastardization (bitchification?) of the role writing, hell ART, is meant to play in society, but all im really trying to get at here: what this ‘revival’ is painfully lacking is a real sense of exposing the reality of its characters’ malaise, aimless despondency and null-state emotional artifices. the best metaphor i can (currently) come up with to facilitate understanding of what i’m trying to say: Consider the Television. how many people do you know that can clearly communicate how a television works? everyone knows what it is, most probably have a good understanding how one ended up in their home, but how many can open one and describe how all the images are generated? now Consider the Internet, and we’re back to the ‘modernity’ i described earlier. look up the story of the ‘frog in a well’ and that is what i see as the most dangerous aspect of all this: people are being put in wells and don’t even realize it. (also, look up ‘digital utopianism’ for why such thinking is dangerous ‘politically’)gang: we’ve got a chance to really flip the whole wide world on it’s ass, so why waste it plugging companies that champion an Old World-business-model way of looking at things? and, please, for the love of something, if you feel like responding to my mini-diatribe, try not to use a product name whilst doing so. ‘every generation needs a new revolution.’ — thomas jefferson./will rephrase my response in the form of poetry for $1.//heh.
a 5-paragraph ‘essay’ on why attaching a brand name to ‘realism’ is dangerous
if there’s one thing i hope that everyone who reads this can agree upon, is that this ‘revival’ (as mentioned by “anon” just above me) has been defined as a championing of an aesthetic that hopes to explore reality — as experienced — by suburbanite, middle-class, atomically average families and individuals in a culture inundated with so much ad hoc (pop-)cultural detritus… that any real sense of life-as-search-for-rewarding-meaning has been rendered beyond the spectrum of ‘moot’, and deposited somewhere in a landfill that might as well be the next Garden of Eden. amirite?
why i believe this shaping-of-the-ways-seem-to-be is dangerous: this ‘movement’ — as i’ve read and followed as much of as i can — seems to have taken shape as an extremely passive stance to the world-at-large’s current modernity, which — at present — is notorious for rewarding every single one of you unique individuals out there for summoning the courage to share your unfettered thoughts, about this that or the other thing, with an audience comprising of vast nexuses of anonymous, virtually infinite and multi-ethno-chromatic seas of real, live, living people. but why, in such an actual transglobal-kind-of society, does writing simply have to be about the way things are?
‘writing’ should be about portraying the world as the ways thing are, the ways things were, and the way things should be. life is not a passive ride, and writing-that-is-meant-to-be-read-by-others should not be as well. writing that (apparently) champions a joyless, emotionless, robotic rundown through life is dangerous because it dwells on everything negative and worthless about what it means to be human: that a vast majority of dreams are destined to die a slow and expressionless-kind-of heat death, that experiencing unhappiness is just as important as experiencing happiness, that all of our lives are under the auspices and control of unseen, unknown and unreachable faceless multinationals, that can’t help but jowly chuckle at the lot of anyone mindlessly regurgitating plasticine, ersatz and FAKE cultural memes that have been transplanted in our brains by only the most subtly sinister of means.
‘[fill-in-the-blank] realism’ as a term is a bastardization (bitchification?) of the role writing, hell ART, is meant to play in society, but all im really trying to get at here: what this ‘revival’ is painfully lacking is a real sense of exposing the reality of its characters’ malaise, aimless despondency and null-state emotional artifices. the best metaphor i can (currently) come up with to facilitate understanding of what i’m trying to say: Consider the Television. how many people do you know that can clearly communicate how a television works? everyone knows what it is, most probably have a good understand how one ended up in their home, but how many can open one and describe how all the images are generated? now Consider the Internet, and we’re back to the ‘modernity’ i described earlier. look up the story of the ‘frog in a well’ and that is what i see as the most dangerous aspect of all this: people are being put in wells and don’t even realize it. (also, look up ‘digital utopianism’ for why such thinking is dangerous ‘politically’)
gang: we’ve got a chance to really flip the whole wide world on it’s ass, so why waste it plugging companies that champion an Old World-business-model way of looking at things? and, please, for the love of something, if you feel like responding to my mini-diatribe, try not to use a product name whilst doing so. ‘every generation needs a new revolution.’ — thomas jefferson.
/will rephrase my response in the form of poetry for $1.
//heh.
“Kombucha ” isn’t a brand name, it’s a thing like “yogurt” or “muffin”. I googled “kombucha” and look what I found (note the writer, HTML GIANTs):
http://www.moreintelligentlife.com/story/kombucha-diy-elixir-life
How about “Vegan Realism”?
@Zusya- I am too tired to read your 5-paragraph essay and give it its due – my eyeballs are aching – but I will give it a thorough read tomorrow morning with coffee.
“Kombucha ” isn’t a brand name, it’s a thing like “yogurt” or “muffin”. I googled “kombucha” and look what I found (note the writer, HTML GIANTs):
http://www.moreintelligentlife.com/story/kombucha-diy-elixir-life
How about “Vegan Realism”?
@Zusya- I am too tired to read your 5-paragraph essay and give it its due – my eyeballs are aching – but I will give it a thorough read tomorrow morning with coffee.
“Kombucha ” isn’t a brand name, it’s a thing like “yogurt” or “muffin”. I googled “kombucha” and look what I found (note the writer, HTML GIANTs):
http://www.moreintelligentlife.com/story/kombucha-diy-elixir-life
How about “Vegan Realism”?
@Zusya- I am too tired to read your 5-paragraph essay and give it its due – my eyeballs are aching – but I will give it a thorough read tomorrow morning with coffee.
Vegan and Kombucha don’t play off of K-Mart at all and seem to connote a different culture than what is being described in these books.
Vegan and Kombucha don’t play off of K-Mart at all and seem to connote a different culture than what is being described in these books.
Vegan and Kombucha don’t play off of K-Mart at all and seem to connote a different culture than what is being described in these books.
it would be funny if you did rephrase in the form of poetry and it was very very succinct. like in those cartoons and things where the character is speaking another language and says something very very long and it translates to “yes”. it would be an obvious joke, but some jokes I never get tired of.
I’m just joshing you, your post isn’t really like those cartoons.
it would be funny if you did rephrase in the form of poetry and it was very very succinct. like in those cartoons and things where the character is speaking another language and says something very very long and it translates to “yes”. it would be an obvious joke, but some jokes I never get tired of.
I’m just joshing you, your post isn’t really like those cartoons.
I read SFAA today. I liked it.
I read SFAA today. I liked it.
it would be funny if you did rephrase in the form of poetry and it was very very succinct. like in those cartoons and things where the character is speaking another language and says something very very long and it translates to “yes”. it would be an obvious joke, but some jokes I never get tired of.
I’m just joshing you, your post isn’t really like those cartoons.
I read SFAA today. I liked it.
“walmart realism” “Gmail realism” “kombucha realism” ?
Stop trying to put a label on anything.
That’s how these kind of things die.
“walmart realism” “Gmail realism” “kombucha realism” ?
Stop trying to put a label on anything.
That’s how these kind of things die.
“walmart realism” “Gmail realism” “kombucha realism” ?
Stop trying to put a label on anything.
That’s how these kind of things die.
These writers are already using a label though, but it is inaccurate.
These writers are already using a label though, but it is inaccurate.
These writers are already using a label though, but it is inaccurate.
pretty sure no one debated about the term kmart realism – it was obv meant to be derogatory rather than celebratory, but, like krautrock, was embraced by its practitioners.
better put a lid on that kombucha, this conversation is making me sick.
pretty sure no one debated about the term kmart realism – it was obv meant to be derogatory rather than celebratory, but, like krautrock, was embraced by its practitioners.
better put a lid on that kombucha, this conversation is making me sick.
pretty sure no one debated about the term kmart realism – it was obv meant to be derogatory rather than celebratory, but, like krautrock, was embraced by its practitioners.
better put a lid on that kombucha, this conversation is making me sick.
saw that on Twitter. it was a pretty great read.
saw that on Twitter. it was a pretty great read.
saw that on Twitter. it was a pretty great read.
that’s nice of you, stephen
that’s nice of you, stephen
that’s nice of you, stephen
ZZZZIPPP KNOWS REYNARD ZZZZIPP GOT REALLY CONFUSED AFTER READING THOSE SENTENCES
ZZZZIPPP KNOWS REYNARD ZZZZIPP GOT REALLY CONFUSED AFTER READING THOSE SENTENCES
ZZZZIPPP KNOWS REYNARD ZZZZIPP GOT REALLY CONFUSED AFTER READING THOSE SENTENCES
at least they are not paid to mention the ipad a certain number of times a week
would much rather see tao-lin-talk than ipad-talk
at least they are not paid to mention the ipad a certain number of times a week
would much rather see tao-lin-talk than ipad-talk
at least they are not paid to mention the ipad a certain number of times a week
would much rather see tao-lin-talk than ipad-talk
Ok. Although I realize the conversation has kind of gotten well away from the point of discussion, and I certainly agree with Noah that Nesbitt’s criticism of Lin is at best incoherent and at worst a bit totalitarian and pig-minded, I’m curious if there’s a place any of you can think of between these two where the writer isn’t thinking primarily first of herself, or is at least admitting an editorial voice that thinks of a book’s effect on the world/people beyond the writer’s own…vanity, for lack of a more encompassing word. Not to knock that first seed of personal need and vanity: there are a lot of other, faster ways to get money or a career: the writer has to get something back from the reading exchange for herself.
Ok. Although I realize the conversation has kind of gotten well away from the point of discussion, and I certainly agree with Noah that Nesbitt’s criticism of Lin is at best incoherent and at worst a bit totalitarian and pig-minded, I’m curious if there’s a place any of you can think of between these two where the writer isn’t thinking primarily first of herself, or is at least admitting an editorial voice that thinks of a book’s effect on the world/people beyond the writer’s own…vanity, for lack of a more encompassing word. Not to knock that first seed of personal need and vanity: there are a lot of other, faster ways to get money or a career: the writer has to get something back from the reading exchange for herself.
Ok. Although I realize the conversation has kind of gotten well away from the point of discussion, and I certainly agree with Noah that Nesbitt’s criticism of Lin is at best incoherent and at worst a bit totalitarian and pig-minded, I’m curious if there’s a place any of you can think of between these two where the writer isn’t thinking primarily first of herself, or is at least admitting an editorial voice that thinks of a book’s effect on the world/people beyond the writer’s own…vanity, for lack of a more encompassing word. Not to knock that first seed of personal need and vanity: there are a lot of other, faster ways to get money or a career: the writer has to get something back from the reading exchange for herself.
ZZZZIPPP ALSO THOUGHT HE MEANT LEVI-STRAUSS. AWFUL.
ZZZZIPPP ALSO THOUGHT HE MEANT LEVI-STRAUSS. AWFUL.
ZZZZIPPP ALSO THOUGHT HE MEANT LEVI-STRAUSS. AWFUL.
I’m pretty sure irrevocable can apply to most anything, and not just decisions. “Impossible to retract or revoke.” Can make sense with the word “truth,” so long as the sentence using it doesn’t also refer to that truth with the word, “once,” implying obviously that said truth had been both retracted and revoked. Retracted by God? Revoked by Tao Lin? Who knows? But that would make him pretty powerful would it not, even if he was only part of the great revolution that helped to revoke what was a once intractable truth, challenging and changing the law of the ever.
The problem is the problem of all reviewers, that he uses the review to assert himself and some pithy idea he has about truth, as if the cultural relative, wouldn’t intrinsically be speaking to some great truth, as if it were even possible to escape those truths which are fundamental. Ironically, the reviewer is doing the same thing that he is supposedly warring against, asserting himself instead of the truth of the work. And it is impossible to have any work, without there being a truth to it, both relative and absolute.
The truth comes out of the relationships between parts, or rather it expresses itself in these relationships. For fiction, this is one of the great teachings of Gertrude Stein, that as soon as you place two words together, any two words, you have a meaning. Now that meaning may not be particularly interesting, and, of course, sometimes it may be too challenging and demanding for us, but it is there. Regardless.
There are great truths, beyond our culturally relative ones, they are the truths that speak to us in patterns and not in words, they allow the other smaller truths, but we cannot speak of them, but to speak around them. And these truths are not “picked at an early age,” nor can we let them go. We are prey to them regardless if we believe in them or know them, though I think, at times we feel them deeply, as beauty, as presence, as something dynamic and engaging or something still, something silent, as life in any and all of the ways that it may come, and then we know better not to ask how or why it comes, suffice that it comes.
As an aside, this piece really speaks to the problems of negative reviews in general, this steering instinct (isn’t there something fascist and totalitarian about such reviews? So I, me and mine. And really it’s terribly insecure, the need to place your personal preferences upon those of everyone else), rather than giving ourselves over to the fact that if the book has been published, it has been published for a reason (yes, even the love poems of Danielle Steele, okay, especially the love poems of Danielle Steele), and perhaps it would be more mature to leave the thing be, give it its space to exist in the world and let it find whatever life it may. Obviously, the irony of the negative review is that they engender a hundred times more interest than no review at all. Of course, this all assumes that a review is a piece of criticism rather than a marketing device.
I’m pretty sure irrevocable can apply to most anything, and not just decisions. “Impossible to retract or revoke.” Can make sense with the word “truth,” so long as the sentence using it doesn’t also refer to that truth with the word, “once,” implying obviously that said truth had been both retracted and revoked. Retracted by God? Revoked by Tao Lin? Who knows? But that would make him pretty powerful would it not, even if he was only part of the great revolution that helped to revoke what was a once intractable truth, challenging and changing the law of the ever.
The problem is the problem of all reviewers, that he uses the review to assert himself and some pithy idea he has about truth, as if the cultural relative, wouldn’t intrinsically be speaking to some great truth, as if it were even possible to escape those truths which are fundamental. Ironically, the reviewer is doing the same thing that he is supposedly warring against, asserting himself instead of the truth of the work. And it is impossible to have any work, without there being a truth to it, both relative and absolute.
The truth comes out of the relationships between parts, or rather it expresses itself in these relationships. For fiction, this is one of the great teachings of Gertrude Stein, that as soon as you place two words together, any two words, you have a meaning. Now that meaning may not be particularly interesting, and, of course, sometimes it may be too challenging and demanding for us, but it is there. Regardless.
There are great truths, beyond our culturally relative ones, they are the truths that speak to us in patterns and not in words, they allow the other smaller truths, but we cannot speak of them, but to speak around them. And these truths are not “picked at an early age,” nor can we let them go. We are prey to them regardless if we believe in them or know them, though I think, at times we feel them deeply, as beauty, as presence, as something dynamic and engaging or something still, something silent, as life in any and all of the ways that it may come, and then we know better not to ask how or why it comes, suffice that it comes.
As an aside, this piece really speaks to the problems of negative reviews in general, this steering instinct (isn’t there something fascist and totalitarian about such reviews? So I, me and mine. And really it’s terribly insecure, the need to place your personal preferences upon those of everyone else), rather than giving ourselves over to the fact that if the book has been published, it has been published for a reason (yes, even the love poems of Danielle Steele, okay, especially the love poems of Danielle Steele), and perhaps it would be more mature to leave the thing be, give it its space to exist in the world and let it find whatever life it may. Obviously, the irony of the negative review is that they engender a hundred times more interest than no review at all. Of course, this all assumes that a review is a piece of criticism rather than a marketing device.
I’m pretty sure irrevocable can apply to most anything, and not just decisions. “Impossible to retract or revoke.” Can make sense with the word “truth,” so long as the sentence using it doesn’t also refer to that truth with the word, “once,” implying obviously that said truth had been both retracted and revoked. Retracted by God? Revoked by Tao Lin? Who knows? But that would make him pretty powerful would it not, even if he was only part of the great revolution that helped to revoke what was a once intractable truth, challenging and changing the law of the ever.
The problem is the problem of all reviewers, that he uses the review to assert himself and some pithy idea he has about truth, as if the cultural relative, wouldn’t intrinsically be speaking to some great truth, as if it were even possible to escape those truths which are fundamental. Ironically, the reviewer is doing the same thing that he is supposedly warring against, asserting himself instead of the truth of the work. And it is impossible to have any work, without there being a truth to it, both relative and absolute.
The truth comes out of the relationships between parts, or rather it expresses itself in these relationships. For fiction, this is one of the great teachings of Gertrude Stein, that as soon as you place two words together, any two words, you have a meaning. Now that meaning may not be particularly interesting, and, of course, sometimes it may be too challenging and demanding for us, but it is there. Regardless.
There are great truths, beyond our culturally relative ones, they are the truths that speak to us in patterns and not in words, they allow the other smaller truths, but we cannot speak of them, but to speak around them. And these truths are not “picked at an early age,” nor can we let them go. We are prey to them regardless if we believe in them or know them, though I think, at times we feel them deeply, as beauty, as presence, as something dynamic and engaging or something still, something silent, as life in any and all of the ways that it may come, and then we know better not to ask how or why it comes, suffice that it comes.
As an aside, this piece really speaks to the problems of negative reviews in general, this steering instinct (isn’t there something fascist and totalitarian about such reviews? So I, me and mine. And really it’s terribly insecure, the need to place your personal preferences upon those of everyone else), rather than giving ourselves over to the fact that if the book has been published, it has been published for a reason (yes, even the love poems of Danielle Steele, okay, especially the love poems of Danielle Steele), and perhaps it would be more mature to leave the thing be, give it its space to exist in the world and let it find whatever life it may. Obviously, the irony of the negative review is that they engender a hundred times more interest than no review at all. Of course, this all assumes that a review is a piece of criticism rather than a marketing device.
i dunno, RB. it seems like you’re dismissing any premise of criticism having any semblance of use, but i couldn’t disagree with you more on this: “the irony of the negative review is that they engender a hundred times more interest than no review at all” … i frankly have no idea what this means.
unless the author of a work getting negative reviews thrown at it is predominately famous, or has been previously venerated (feted even!) for his/her corpus, what would mostpeople care about a noname getting slagged by a review site, blog, guy at a bar, whoever et al.?
i dunno, RB. it seems like you’re dismissing any premise of criticism having any semblance of use, but i couldn’t disagree with you more on this: “the irony of the negative review is that they engender a hundred times more interest than no review at all” … i frankly have no idea what this means.
unless the author of a work getting negative reviews thrown at it is predominately famous, or has been previously venerated (feted even!) for his/her corpus, what would mostpeople care about a noname getting slagged by a review site, blog, guy at a bar, whoever et al.?
i dunno, RB. it seems like you’re dismissing any premise of criticism having any semblance of use, but i couldn’t disagree with you more on this: “the irony of the negative review is that they engender a hundred times more interest than no review at all” … i frankly have no idea what this means.
unless the author of a work getting negative reviews thrown at it is predominately famous, or has been previously venerated (feted even!) for his/her corpus, what would mostpeople care about a noname getting slagged by a review site, blog, guy at a bar, whoever et al.?
Carver’s characters would shop at Kmart. Tao Lin’s characters are likely to be vegan, drink kombucha, and shop at American Apparel. They _are_ different cultures. I think there are different types of realism that people are trying to further describe or label.
Carver’s characters would shop at Kmart. Tao Lin’s characters are likely to be vegan, drink kombucha, and shop at American Apparel. They _are_ different cultures. I think there are different types of realism that people are trying to further describe or label.
Carver’s characters would shop at Kmart. Tao Lin’s characters are likely to be vegan, drink kombucha, and shop at American Apparel. They _are_ different cultures. I think there are different types of realism that people are trying to further describe or label.
And be sure to keep it in the fridge.
And be sure to keep it in the fridge.
And be sure to keep it in the fridge.
Oh, I agree (see above comments). I just think American Apparel Realism (though it is a mouthful) comes closer than Vegan Realism to what we want.
Oh, I agree (see above comments). I just think American Apparel Realism (though it is a mouthful) comes closer than Vegan Realism to what we want.
Oh, I agree (see above comments). I just think American Apparel Realism (though it is a mouthful) comes closer than Vegan Realism to what we want.
Then we’re cool.
I suscribe to the school of Semi-Tongue-in-Cheek Commentism.
Now there’s a mouthful!
Have a super day! (That is sincere.)
Then we’re cool.
I suscribe to the school of Semi-Tongue-in-Cheek Commentism.
Now there’s a mouthful!
Have a super day! (That is sincere.)
Then we’re cool.
I suscribe to the school of Semi-Tongue-in-Cheek Commentism.
Now there’s a mouthful!
Have a super day! (That is sincere.)
i’d understand a ton of replies to noah’s comments but bizzarrrrrrrro rambling about what to call a hand full of writers who are all buddies? Weirdzeez.
i’d understand a ton of replies to noah’s comments but bizzarrrrrrrro rambling about what to call a hand full of writers who are all buddies? Weirdzeez.
i’d understand a ton of replies to noah’s comments but bizzarrrrrrrro rambling about what to call a hand full of writers who are all buddies? Weirdzeez.
if you’re familiar with noah’s writing at all (his blog writing in particular) you get used to the weird sentence breaks. most writers are punctuation pervs that a reader must become acclimated to (see celine’s elipsis or kerouac’s dash or etc).
simple translation:
“To not believe in cultural relativism is to not believe in sociology, which was a theory proposed by Leo Strauss in his book Natural Right and History [in] which [he] described how sociology was evil because it leads to liberal nihilism.”
if you’re familiar with noah’s writing at all (his blog writing in particular) you get used to the weird sentence breaks. most writers are punctuation pervs that a reader must become acclimated to (see celine’s elipsis or kerouac’s dash or etc).
simple translation:
“To not believe in cultural relativism is to not believe in sociology, which was a theory proposed by Leo Strauss in his book Natural Right and History [in] which [he] described how sociology was evil because it leads to liberal nihilism.”
if you’re familiar with noah’s writing at all (his blog writing in particular) you get used to the weird sentence breaks. most writers are punctuation pervs that a reader must become acclimated to (see celine’s elipsis or kerouac’s dash or etc).
simple translation:
“To not believe in cultural relativism is to not believe in sociology, which was a theory proposed by Leo Strauss in his book Natural Right and History [in] which [he] described how sociology was evil because it leads to liberal nihilism.”
that sounds about right
that sounds about right
that sounds about right
go fro a walk? go to the beach? eat a hot dog? learn the clarinet?
go fro a walk? go to the beach? eat a hot dog? learn the clarinet?
go fro a walk? go to the beach? eat a hot dog? learn the clarinet?
i like you, donald
i like you, donald
i like you, donald
damn
damn
damn
tao is right now grinning ‘insanely’ reading over these comments
tao is right now grinning ‘insanely’ reading over these comments
tao is right now grinning ‘insanely’ reading over these comments
ask him to vote:
a) G-Mail Realism
b) G-Chat Realism
c) Urban Outfitters Realism
d) Kombucha Realism
3) ________ (write-in candidate)
ask him to vote:
a) G-Mail Realism
b) G-Chat Realism
c) Urban Outfitters Realism
d) Kombucha Realism
3) ________ (write-in candidate)
ask him to vote:
a) G-Mail Realism
b) G-Chat Realism
c) Urban Outfitters Realism
d) Kombucha Realism
3) ________ (write-in candidate)
Write-in candidate: Fair Trade Realism.
Write-in candidate: Fair Trade Realism.
Write-in candidate: Fair Trade Realism.
feel like tao lin doesn’t like ‘gmail realism’
feel like tao lin doesn’t like ‘gmail realism’
feel like tao lin doesn’t like ‘gmail realism’
Sad Hamster Realism
Sad Hamster Realism
Sad Hamster Realism
How does the prevalence of ‘non-realist’ elements (i.e., talking bears, aliens, streetwise terrorists who live inside the walls) in Tao Lin’s work ‘pre-SFAA’ impact this discussion?
(The scare quotes, they’re just so much fun.)
How does the prevalence of ‘non-realist’ elements (i.e., talking bears, aliens, streetwise terrorists who live inside the walls) in Tao Lin’s work ‘pre-SFAA’ impact this discussion?
(The scare quotes, they’re just so much fun.)
How does the prevalence of ‘non-realist’ elements (i.e., talking bears, aliens, streetwise terrorists who live inside the walls) in Tao Lin’s work ‘pre-SFAA’ impact this discussion?
(The scare quotes, they’re just so much fun.)
This overall discussion is one of the most idiotic I’ve ever encountered. Writers have regressed to medievals days, arguing over how many angels will fit on the head of a pin. “That which is irrevocably but irreverently true might not be irreverently but it is certainly not irredeemably irrevocably etc etc etc.”
No wonder the public is abandoning the art.
Someone told me this site was the future of literature.
The future then is a dead end.
Just my two cents. . . .
This overall discussion is one of the most idiotic I’ve ever encountered. Writers have regressed to medievals days, arguing over how many angels will fit on the head of a pin. “That which is irrevocably but irreverently true might not be irreverently but it is certainly not irredeemably irrevocably etc etc etc.”
No wonder the public is abandoning the art.
Someone told me this site was the future of literature.
The future then is a dead end.
Just my two cents. . . .
This overall discussion is one of the most idiotic I’ve ever encountered. Writers have regressed to medievals days, arguing over how many angels will fit on the head of a pin. “That which is irrevocably but irreverently true might not be irreverently but it is certainly not irredeemably irrevocably etc etc etc.”
No wonder the public is abandoning the art.
Someone told me this site was the future of literature.
The future then is a dead end.
Just my two cents. . . .
Get a job, the lot of you.
Get a job, the lot of you.
Get a job, the lot of you.
How does the prevalence of scare-quote misuse amongst seemingly everyone on this site impact the coherence of the discussion?
How does the prevalence of scare-quote misuse amongst seemingly everyone on this site impact the coherence of the discussion?
How does the prevalence of scare-quote misuse amongst seemingly everyone on this site impact the coherence of the discussion?
Sorry,
How “does the” prevalence ‘of’ scare-quote “misuse’ amongst seemingly everyone on ‘”this site'” impact the coherence of the “discussion””?”
Sorry,
How “does the” prevalence ‘of’ scare-quote “misuse’ amongst seemingly everyone on ‘”this site'” impact the coherence of the “discussion””?”
Sorry,
How “does the” prevalence ‘of’ scare-quote “misuse’ amongst seemingly everyone on ‘”this site'” impact the coherence of the “discussion””?”
I have a job, but I don’t have to work on Fridays. Or Saturdays. Or ‘Sundays.’
I have a job, but I don’t have to work on Fridays. Or Saturdays. Or ‘Sundays.’
I have a job, but I don’t have to work on Fridays. Or Saturdays. Or ‘Sundays.’
‘I’ ‘resemble’ that ‘remark.’
‘I’ ‘resemble’ that ‘remark.’
‘I’ ‘resemble’ that ‘remark.’
I’ve been wondering this for a while. Especially when the word in scare quotes is used according to its literal definition. I can understand with certain stock phrases or disingenuous words. But otherwise its function is unclear. As a result, a lot of it comes across as affected and annoying.
I’ve been wondering this for a while. Especially when the word in scare quotes is used according to its literal definition. I can understand with certain stock phrases or disingenuous words. But otherwise its function is unclear. As a result, a lot of it comes across as affected and annoying.
I’ve been wondering this for a while. Especially when the word in scare quotes is used according to its literal definition. I can understand with certain stock phrases or disingenuous words. But otherwise its function is unclear. As a result, a lot of it comes across as affected and annoying.
i’m sorry, what discussion?
i’m sorry, what discussion?
i’m sorry, what discussion?
just want to say some things yall
just want to say some things yall
just want to say some things yall
i too like those kinds of cartoons. though i’m a bit bummed no one else seemed to care enough to respond to my post, especially the aforementioned mumu down there. oh wellz. verily onwards. though next time i promise to proofread for the myriad typos i left in there. whoopz.
sharing ideas from various sources…
writers get to treat their mental illness every day
writers dream their ideas into being
writers turn up for work
writers endure the beating administered by the sadistic guards of the imagination
writers write to discover what they want to say
writers work with the nature of the unconscious
writers make it new day by day
writers express what others are afraid to say
sharing ideas from various sources…
writers get to treat their mental illness every day
writers dream their ideas into being
writers turn up for work
writers endure the beating administered by the sadistic guards of the imagination
writers write to discover what they want to say
writers work with the nature of the unconscious
writers make it new day by day
writers express what others are afraid to say
sharing ideas from various sources…
writers get to treat their mental illness every day
writers dream their ideas into being
writers turn up for work
writers endure the beating administered by the sadistic guards of the imagination
writers write to discover what they want to say
writers work with the nature of the unconscious
writers make it new day by day
writers express what others are afraid to say
Makes the dicussion ‘more’ ‘fun.’
Sorry, thought i was ‘clear’ about ‘that.’
Makes the dicussion ‘more’ ‘fun.’
Sorry, thought i was ‘clear’ about ‘that.’
Makes the dicussion ‘more’ ‘fun.’
Sorry, thought i was ‘clear’ about ‘that.’
“c’est une pipe” ou ” ce n’est pas une pipe”, mais pas “cest nest pas un pipe”
allors!
“c’est une pipe” ou ” ce n’est pas une pipe”, mais pas “cest nest pas un pipe”
allors!
“c’est une pipe” ou ” ce n’est pas une pipe”, mais pas “cest nest pas un pipe”
allors!
I also like those cartoons.
Zusya- Is “mimi” the “mumu” you are referring to? If so, feel free to play around with my nickname as much as you like! Cross “mimi” with “mumu” and you get “miu miu”, a charming brand, school teacher/librarian/granny-geek-chic. And very expensive. Sheesh. My Romanian-born great-great grandfather’s name was Zisu. He was a grocer on Chicago’s south side.
I did read your long post with interest the other day (yesterday? what day is it?)
Taking “an extremely passive stance to the world-at-large’s current modernity” is one way to “deal” in this day and age. “Passive resistance” so to speak. Thrift store chic, veganism, bartering, foraging, getting off the grid. I live immersed in this kind of think-space/be-space, being in Berkeley. It is rather the norm for me. I think this can sometimes be interpreted as disinterest, disaffection, passivity, negativity, depression, existential dread, etc etc. There are many “labels” or descriptors one can use. But I think it can also be considered as an active stance, a statement, a rejection of the prevailing corporate/mass market paradigm.
“writing that (apparently) champions a joyless, emotionless, robotic rundown through life is dangerous because it dwells on everything negative and worthless about what it means to be human”
If you are referring to Tao Lin &/or SFAA here, then I think I have to disagree. Tao Lin uses a sparse, sad, wistful and sweetly funny language, often gchatty, to express a longing for meaning and connection. Veganism expresses the desire and hope to decrease “suffering in the world”. Being “disaffected” can in fact be a striving to respect others, to not impose one’s own belief, to live a compassionate detachment toward others, a la Buddhism. I don’t see this as joyless, emotionless, dangerous, negative or worthless.
I think that if you want to repost your essay as poetry then by all means do so! I thought that by asking for $1, tho, you were ironically turning it into the “offer” of a “product” available “for sale”.
As for all the “labeling” going on in this thread, much of it including brand names, well, I think this is just people using words to describe. Describe more than label, maybe. It’s not an endorsement of product, lifestyle or ideology.
It is, however, a strong statement about the culture we live in, and the attendant, prevailing “market” framing. I for one am not a big fan of labeling per se, but it can be useful in discussion to make a point. (Just using it says a lot, doesn’t it?!) I can’t escape it, but maybe I can try to transcend it in my life and choices. With action that may appear passive. With a calmness and detachment that may appear joyless but in fact is not.
I also like those cartoons.
Zusya- Is “mimi” the “mumu” you are referring to? If so, feel free to play around with my nickname as much as you like! Cross “mimi” with “mumu” and you get “miu miu”, a charming brand, school teacher/librarian/granny-geek-chic. And very expensive. Sheesh. My Romanian-born great-great grandfather’s name was Zisu. He was a grocer on Chicago’s south side.
I did read your long post with interest the other day (yesterday? what day is it?)
Taking “an extremely passive stance to the world-at-large’s current modernity” is one way to “deal” in this day and age. “Passive resistance” so to speak. Thrift store chic, veganism, bartering, foraging, getting off the grid. I live immersed in this kind of think-space/be-space, being in Berkeley. It is rather the norm for me. I think this can sometimes be interpreted as disinterest, disaffection, passivity, negativity, depression, existential dread, etc etc. There are many “labels” or descriptors one can use. But I think it can also be considered as an active stance, a statement, a rejection of the prevailing corporate/mass market paradigm.
“writing that (apparently) champions a joyless, emotionless, robotic rundown through life is dangerous because it dwells on everything negative and worthless about what it means to be human”
If you are referring to Tao Lin &/or SFAA here, then I think I have to disagree. Tao Lin uses a sparse, sad, wistful and sweetly funny language, often gchatty, to express a longing for meaning and connection. Veganism expresses the desire and hope to decrease “suffering in the world”. Being “disaffected” can in fact be a striving to respect others, to not impose one’s own belief, to live a compassionate detachment toward others, a la Buddhism. I don’t see this as joyless, emotionless, dangerous, negative or worthless.
I think that if you want to repost your essay as poetry then by all means do so! I thought that by asking for $1, tho, you were ironically turning it into the “offer” of a “product” available “for sale”.
As for all the “labeling” going on in this thread, much of it including brand names, well, I think this is just people using words to describe. Describe more than label, maybe. It’s not an endorsement of product, lifestyle or ideology.
It is, however, a strong statement about the culture we live in, and the attendant, prevailing “market” framing. I for one am not a big fan of labeling per se, but it can be useful in discussion to make a point. (Just using it says a lot, doesn’t it?!) I can’t escape it, but maybe I can try to transcend it in my life and choices. With action that may appear passive. With a calmness and detachment that may appear joyless but in fact is not.
I also like those cartoons.
Zusya- Is “mimi” the “mumu” you are referring to? If so, feel free to play around with my nickname as much as you like! Cross “mimi” with “mumu” and you get “miu miu”, a charming brand, school teacher/librarian/granny-geek-chic. And very expensive. Sheesh. My Romanian-born great-great grandfather’s name was Zisu. He was a grocer on Chicago’s south side.
I did read your long post with interest the other day (yesterday? what day is it?)
Taking “an extremely passive stance to the world-at-large’s current modernity” is one way to “deal” in this day and age. “Passive resistance” so to speak. Thrift store chic, veganism, bartering, foraging, getting off the grid. I live immersed in this kind of think-space/be-space, being in Berkeley. It is rather the norm for me. I think this can sometimes be interpreted as disinterest, disaffection, passivity, negativity, depression, existential dread, etc etc. There are many “labels” or descriptors one can use. But I think it can also be considered as an active stance, a statement, a rejection of the prevailing corporate/mass market paradigm.
“writing that (apparently) champions a joyless, emotionless, robotic rundown through life is dangerous because it dwells on everything negative and worthless about what it means to be human”
If you are referring to Tao Lin &/or SFAA here, then I think I have to disagree. Tao Lin uses a sparse, sad, wistful and sweetly funny language, often gchatty, to express a longing for meaning and connection. Veganism expresses the desire and hope to decrease “suffering in the world”. Being “disaffected” can in fact be a striving to respect others, to not impose one’s own belief, to live a compassionate detachment toward others, a la Buddhism. I don’t see this as joyless, emotionless, dangerous, negative or worthless.
I think that if you want to repost your essay as poetry then by all means do so! I thought that by asking for $1, tho, you were ironically turning it into the “offer” of a “product” available “for sale”.
As for all the “labeling” going on in this thread, much of it including brand names, well, I think this is just people using words to describe. Describe more than label, maybe. It’s not an endorsement of product, lifestyle or ideology.
It is, however, a strong statement about the culture we live in, and the attendant, prevailing “market” framing. I for one am not a big fan of labeling per se, but it can be useful in discussion to make a point. (Just using it says a lot, doesn’t it?!) I can’t escape it, but maybe I can try to transcend it in my life and choices. With action that may appear passive. With a calmness and detachment that may appear joyless but in fact is not.
@Morgan re: “How does the prevalence of ‘non-realist’ elements (i.e., talking bears, aliens, streetwise terrorists who live inside the walls) in Tao Lin’s work ‘pre-SFAA’ impact this discussion?”
I hear what you’re saying here. I had the same question when I first read Marquez and heard his writing labelled as “magical realism”.
Wikipedia has a damn decent and easy to read essay about magical realism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_realism
from which, I quote:
With regard to literature, …magical realism, is an aesthetic style or narrative mode in which magical elements are blended into a realistic atmosphere in order to access a deeper understanding of reality. These magical elements are explained like normal occurrences that are presented in a straightforward and unembellished manner which allows the ‘real’ and the ‘fantastic’ to be accepted in the same stream of thought. It has been widely considered a literary and visual art genre…
As used today the term is broadly descriptive rather than critically rigorous: Matthew Strecher has defined magic realism as “what happens when a highly detailed, realistic setting is invaded by something ‘too strange to believe’.” However, it may be that this critical perspective towards magical realism stems from the Western reader’s disassociation with mythology, a root of magical realism more easily understood by non-Western cultures. Westerner’s confusion regarding the style of magical realism is due to the “‘conception of the real'” created in a magical realist text; rather than explaining reality using natural or physical laws as in typical Western texts, magical realist texts create a reality “‘in which the relation between incidents, characters, and setting could not be based upon or justified by their status within the physical world or their normal acceptance by bourgeois mentality’.”
@Morgan re: “How does the prevalence of ‘non-realist’ elements (i.e., talking bears, aliens, streetwise terrorists who live inside the walls) in Tao Lin’s work ‘pre-SFAA’ impact this discussion?”
I hear what you’re saying here. I had the same question when I first read Marquez and heard his writing labelled as “magical realism”.
Wikipedia has a damn decent and easy to read essay about magical realism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_realism
from which, I quote:
With regard to literature, …magical realism, is an aesthetic style or narrative mode in which magical elements are blended into a realistic atmosphere in order to access a deeper understanding of reality. These magical elements are explained like normal occurrences that are presented in a straightforward and unembellished manner which allows the ‘real’ and the ‘fantastic’ to be accepted in the same stream of thought. It has been widely considered a literary and visual art genre…
As used today the term is broadly descriptive rather than critically rigorous: Matthew Strecher has defined magic realism as “what happens when a highly detailed, realistic setting is invaded by something ‘too strange to believe’.” However, it may be that this critical perspective towards magical realism stems from the Western reader’s disassociation with mythology, a root of magical realism more easily understood by non-Western cultures. Westerner’s confusion regarding the style of magical realism is due to the “‘conception of the real'” created in a magical realist text; rather than explaining reality using natural or physical laws as in typical Western texts, magical realist texts create a reality “‘in which the relation between incidents, characters, and setting could not be based upon or justified by their status within the physical world or their normal acceptance by bourgeois mentality’.”
@Morgan re: “How does the prevalence of ‘non-realist’ elements (i.e., talking bears, aliens, streetwise terrorists who live inside the walls) in Tao Lin’s work ‘pre-SFAA’ impact this discussion?”
I hear what you’re saying here. I had the same question when I first read Marquez and heard his writing labelled as “magical realism”.
Wikipedia has a damn decent and easy to read essay about magical realism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_realism
from which, I quote:
With regard to literature, …magical realism, is an aesthetic style or narrative mode in which magical elements are blended into a realistic atmosphere in order to access a deeper understanding of reality. These magical elements are explained like normal occurrences that are presented in a straightforward and unembellished manner which allows the ‘real’ and the ‘fantastic’ to be accepted in the same stream of thought. It has been widely considered a literary and visual art genre…
As used today the term is broadly descriptive rather than critically rigorous: Matthew Strecher has defined magic realism as “what happens when a highly detailed, realistic setting is invaded by something ‘too strange to believe’.” However, it may be that this critical perspective towards magical realism stems from the Western reader’s disassociation with mythology, a root of magical realism more easily understood by non-Western cultures. Westerner’s confusion regarding the style of magical realism is due to the “‘conception of the real'” created in a magical realist text; rather than explaining reality using natural or physical laws as in typical Western texts, magical realist texts create a reality “‘in which the relation between incidents, characters, and setting could not be based upon or justified by their status within the physical world or their normal acceptance by bourgeois mentality’.”
bonne, mimi, mais c’est ‘alors!’ pas ‘allors!’ – je t’aime quand même
bonne, mimi, mais c’est ‘alors!’ pas ‘allors!’ – je t’aime quand même
bonne, mimi, mais c’est ‘alors!’ pas ‘allors!’ – je t’aime quand même
Oui, c’est vrai!
I looked it up in my French-English dict. afterwards and thought to do:
“*alors, pas *allors”, mais, puis, alors, je…..
Vous etes tres gentil!
I am missing accent marks, I know, alas. Don’t know how to do them here.
Oui, c’est vrai!
I looked it up in my French-English dict. afterwards and thought to do:
“*alors, pas *allors”, mais, puis, alors, je…..
Vous etes tres gentil!
I am missing accent marks, I know, alas. Don’t know how to do them here.
Oui, c’est vrai!
I looked it up in my French-English dict. afterwards and thought to do:
“*alors, pas *allors”, mais, puis, alors, je…..
Vous etes tres gentil!
I am missing accent marks, I know, alas. Don’t know how to do them here.
“I don’t see this as joyless, emotionless, dangerous, negative or worthless.” from one human to another, i’ll have to take your word for it, though who doesn’t have millions of books to get through and review? my shaping of this ” ‘ “movement” ‘ ” ‘s narrative has been informed only by what i’ve read (mostly short stories and the occasional novel(la)), and i most certainly would never claim to be an authority on an entire oeuvre unless i’ve read an entire author, even his/her minor works.
Being in Berkley, i’d unfairly want to assume a great deal about the motives and rationale that have informed your apparent opinion, and while i can’t help but want to position to my own thoughts and feelings in a corner near sciamachy, when i described the idea of defining a literary move as being “dangerous,” i meant to describe its effects as parlayed to the average reader, not the average author or critic. maybe i’ve misinterpreted a majority of the responses-as-i’ve-read-in-this-thread, but i’d have to agree with the commenter who (somewhere in here) noted that ‘this is how these things die.’
“Being “disaffected” can in fact be a striving to respect others, to not impose one’s own belief, to live a compassionate detachment toward others, a la Buddhism.” … jokingly, i could say that this statement is imposing Buddhism on anyone who reads it, but a bit more seriously, there’s nothing wrong with positioning oneself as a kind of “observer” on the rest of the world, but what’s to come of situations that require actual, full-bodied interaction? i can’t help but feel you’ve “decided” to take a stand in defense of just about everything i frothily tried to say, while admirable, i don’t completely get.
“a strong statement about the culture we live in” … we could disagree forever about what “strong” entails, but methinks even the two of us may be living in different cultures, while lastly: “I can try to transcend it in my life and choices. With action that may appear passive. With a calmness and detachment that may appear joyless but in fact is not.” … actually, this is exactly what i meant by robotic, though i see now what i’ve done by positioning the word concomitant to “joyless and expressionless” … however, i still care for “null-state emotional artifices.”
re: $1 poetry… heh. i couldn’t help myself. seemed like the fitting end to a rather lengthy (net-wise) and (apparently) point-ful comment. maybe i’ll get around it to it when i’m not trying to anonymously and intelligently reply to another anonymous and intelligent response.
/i realize now i should have titled that ‘essay’: Down With Branded Reality
zusya,
I don’t think the problem is that this group of writers champions a joyless, emotionless, robotic emotional life. The problem is that none of it is authentically felt. From the little I’ve been able to stand reading of the ‘gmail realism’ group, it seems pretty clear that even if their “real life” selves apparently feel this way, their artistic selves certainly do not.
“what this ‘revival’ is painfully lacking is a real sense of exposing the reality of its characters’ malaise”—I think it’s admirable that you have enough hope to think they’re even interested in doing this. Exercises in affect have very little to do with reality or original thought, and those who have gained some measure of fame and whatnot by way of these exercises are unlikely to ever turn back. In a way it’d be fitting for them to be given a name as fitting as ‘gmail realism’ so that they could more rapidly fade into irrelevance, but whatever. This kind of stuff will always be produced and admired, to a certain extent.
zusya,
I don’t think the problem is that this group of writers champions a joyless, emotionless, robotic emotional life. The problem is that none of it is authentically felt. From the little I’ve been able to stand reading of the ‘gmail realism’ group, it seems pretty clear that even if their “real life” selves apparently feel this way, their artistic selves certainly do not.
“what this ‘revival’ is painfully lacking is a real sense of exposing the reality of its characters’ malaise”—I think it’s admirable that you have enough hope to think they’re even interested in doing this. Exercises in affect have very little to do with reality or original thought, and those who have gained some measure of fame and whatnot by way of these exercises are unlikely to ever turn back. In a way it’d be fitting for them to be given a name as fitting as ‘gmail realism’ so that they could more rapidly fade into irrelevance, but whatever. This kind of stuff will always be produced and admired, to a certain extent.
zusya,
I don’t think the problem is that this group of writers champions a joyless, emotionless, robotic emotional life. The problem is that none of it is authentically felt. From the little I’ve been able to stand reading of the ‘gmail realism’ group, it seems pretty clear that even if their “real life” selves apparently feel this way, their artistic selves certainly do not.
“what this ‘revival’ is painfully lacking is a real sense of exposing the reality of its characters’ malaise”—I think it’s admirable that you have enough hope to think they’re even interested in doing this. Exercises in affect have very little to do with reality or original thought, and those who have gained some measure of fame and whatnot by way of these exercises are unlikely to ever turn back. In a way it’d be fitting for them to be given a name as fitting as ‘gmail realism’ so that they could more rapidly fade into irrelevance, but whatever. This kind of stuff will always be produced and admired, to a certain extent.
Wow, maybe I should say fitting a few more times. Fitting fitting fitting fitting. I need sleep.
Wow, maybe I should say fitting a few more times. Fitting fitting fitting fitting. I need sleep.
Wow, maybe I should say fitting a few more times. Fitting fitting fitting fitting. I need sleep.
c’mon, ryan…
here is a partial list of your undefined/unverified (as far as being objectively true, whatever that would mean) words, each of which is key to your argument, and without which you’re not saying much other than “i’m grumpy about these writers”:
“emotionless,” “authentically felt,” “‘real life’ selves,” “artistic selves,” “reality,” “original thought”…..
i think the first defense of this group of writers, if you feel like grouping them, against your criticism is the fact that they at least think about what such words “mean” and “signify.” And i don’t just mean they use scare-quotes a lot. I mean they are philosophically engaged, in addition to being funny, relatable, intriguing, and interested in the possibilities of art as it intersects with life and emotions. how awful…
c’mon, ryan…
here is a partial list of your undefined/unverified (as far as being objectively true, whatever that would mean) words, each of which is key to your argument, and without which you’re not saying much other than “i’m grumpy about these writers”:
“emotionless,” “authentically felt,” “‘real life’ selves,” “artistic selves,” “reality,” “original thought”…..
i think the first defense of this group of writers, if you feel like grouping them, against your criticism is the fact that they at least think about what such words “mean” and “signify.” And i don’t just mean they use scare-quotes a lot. I mean they are philosophically engaged, in addition to being funny, relatable, intriguing, and interested in the possibilities of art as it intersects with life and emotions. how awful…
c’mon, ryan…
here is a partial list of your undefined/unverified (as far as being objectively true, whatever that would mean) words, each of which is key to your argument, and without which you’re not saying much other than “i’m grumpy about these writers”:
“emotionless,” “authentically felt,” “‘real life’ selves,” “artistic selves,” “reality,” “original thought”…..
i think the first defense of this group of writers, if you feel like grouping them, against your criticism is the fact that they at least think about what such words “mean” and “signify.” And i don’t just mean they use scare-quotes a lot. I mean they are philosophically engaged, in addition to being funny, relatable, intriguing, and interested in the possibilities of art as it intersects with life and emotions. how awful…
It’s not exactly a complex statement. I think that they mostly write out of a place of conventionality and faddishness rather than originality. They are happy to recycle long-dead tropes rather than unearth new ones.
But either way, I’m just kind of bored of the whole thing. My personal interest in the Lin/German/Cicero/etc. group has more or less run out. (My interest in many things is teetering on E, I guess.) They’ll be recycled for a new fad in a few years, anyhow.
. . . Fuck, I’m depressed. Can anyone recommend some upbeat/lively music that isn’t totally cheesy? Just realized all the music that really hits me is subdued and slow, mostly. . . and that ain’t helpin. Urgh.
It’s not exactly a complex statement. I think that they mostly write out of a place of conventionality and faddishness rather than originality. They are happy to recycle long-dead tropes rather than unearth new ones.
But either way, I’m just kind of bored of the whole thing. My personal interest in the Lin/German/Cicero/etc. group has more or less run out. (My interest in many things is teetering on E, I guess.) They’ll be recycled for a new fad in a few years, anyhow.
. . . Fuck, I’m depressed. Can anyone recommend some upbeat/lively music that isn’t totally cheesy? Just realized all the music that really hits me is subdued and slow, mostly. . . and that ain’t helpin. Urgh.
It’s not exactly a complex statement. I think that they mostly write out of a place of conventionality and faddishness rather than originality. They are happy to recycle long-dead tropes rather than unearth new ones.
But either way, I’m just kind of bored of the whole thing. My personal interest in the Lin/German/Cicero/etc. group has more or less run out. (My interest in many things is teetering on E, I guess.) They’ll be recycled for a new fad in a few years, anyhow.
. . . Fuck, I’m depressed. Can anyone recommend some upbeat/lively music that isn’t totally cheesy? Just realized all the music that really hits me is subdued and slow, mostly. . . and that ain’t helpin. Urgh.
I agree that “they are philosophically engaged, …funny, relatable, intriguing, and interested in the possibilities of art as it intersects with life and emotions.”
Theirs is not the only “way”, but it is a valid “way”.
And of course for the most part this is a young group of writers, the quality of writing varies, as is to be expected, and it will be interesting to see what they (or some of them) do over the years.
I, for one, am having fun, and feel interested, intrigued, and sometimes moved, while exploring this “genre”.
I agree that “they are philosophically engaged, …funny, relatable, intriguing, and interested in the possibilities of art as it intersects with life and emotions.”
Theirs is not the only “way”, but it is a valid “way”.
And of course for the most part this is a young group of writers, the quality of writing varies, as is to be expected, and it will be interesting to see what they (or some of them) do over the years.
I, for one, am having fun, and feel interested, intrigued, and sometimes moved, while exploring this “genre”.
I agree that “they are philosophically engaged, …funny, relatable, intriguing, and interested in the possibilities of art as it intersects with life and emotions.”
Theirs is not the only “way”, but it is a valid “way”.
And of course for the most part this is a young group of writers, the quality of writing varies, as is to be expected, and it will be interesting to see what they (or some of them) do over the years.
I, for one, am having fun, and feel interested, intrigued, and sometimes moved, while exploring this “genre”.
@ryan:
I know this going way back, but maybe it’ll help?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14hskyBXkPo
@ryan:
I know this going way back, but maybe it’ll help?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14hskyBXkPo
@ryan:
I know this going way back, but maybe it’ll help?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14hskyBXkPo
Hi Mimi —
You are unusually civil and thoughtful for someone commenting on Tao Lin, thanks for that.
The connection between magic realism and Tao Lin’s early work is definitely spot on, but it doesn’t really settle the question I had (insofar as it was a question and not just more of a “hm” type of comment). It seems like magic realism and K-Mart realism are pretty extremely different things, and — though I haven’t really read that much K-Mart realism — my impression wasn’t that the term would accommodate those kinds of fantastic elements.
So it seems interesting to me, this move to assimilate Tao Lin’s work into some kind of K-Mart realist revival (which is a move that Lin himself seems to be right out in front on). SFAA definitely fits, but somehow it’s like as soon as that book came out, everyone agreed to think about Tao Lin as if he had always written that way even though it’s actually kind of a huge stylistic break in some ways.
Not a big deal, I love Tao Lin’s writing either way. But as a former academic, I guess it just sets off my “possible dissertation chapter 20 years in the future” sense a little.
Hi Mimi —
You are unusually civil and thoughtful for someone commenting on Tao Lin, thanks for that.
The connection between magic realism and Tao Lin’s early work is definitely spot on, but it doesn’t really settle the question I had (insofar as it was a question and not just more of a “hm” type of comment). It seems like magic realism and K-Mart realism are pretty extremely different things, and — though I haven’t really read that much K-Mart realism — my impression wasn’t that the term would accommodate those kinds of fantastic elements.
So it seems interesting to me, this move to assimilate Tao Lin’s work into some kind of K-Mart realist revival (which is a move that Lin himself seems to be right out in front on). SFAA definitely fits, but somehow it’s like as soon as that book came out, everyone agreed to think about Tao Lin as if he had always written that way even though it’s actually kind of a huge stylistic break in some ways.
Not a big deal, I love Tao Lin’s writing either way. But as a former academic, I guess it just sets off my “possible dissertation chapter 20 years in the future” sense a little.
Hi Mimi —
You are unusually civil and thoughtful for someone commenting on Tao Lin, thanks for that.
The connection between magic realism and Tao Lin’s early work is definitely spot on, but it doesn’t really settle the question I had (insofar as it was a question and not just more of a “hm” type of comment). It seems like magic realism and K-Mart realism are pretty extremely different things, and — though I haven’t really read that much K-Mart realism — my impression wasn’t that the term would accommodate those kinds of fantastic elements.
So it seems interesting to me, this move to assimilate Tao Lin’s work into some kind of K-Mart realist revival (which is a move that Lin himself seems to be right out in front on). SFAA definitely fits, but somehow it’s like as soon as that book came out, everyone agreed to think about Tao Lin as if he had always written that way even though it’s actually kind of a huge stylistic break in some ways.
Not a big deal, I love Tao Lin’s writing either way. But as a former academic, I guess it just sets off my “possible dissertation chapter 20 years in the future” sense a little.
agree with you, mimi, on the writing and on stevie wonder :)
agree with you, mimi, on the writing and on stevie wonder :)
agree with you, mimi, on the writing and on stevie wonder :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi9yANYCqwM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi9yANYCqwM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi9yANYCqwM
@ryan “The problem is that none of it is authentically felt.” … if i fittingly had anything to say (critically) it was fittingly this.
(/@ryan … girl talk’s Feed the Animals album is pretty upbeat, lively, anti-cliche and pretty funny. it works for me.)
@stephen “I mean they are philosophically engaged, in addition to being funny, relatable, intriguing, and interested in the possibilities of art as it intersects with life and emotions.” … who doesn’t like people like that? i’d be thrilled to meet such people. the people i hang out with kinda suck. but don’t tell them i said that.
@mimi “Theirs is not the only “way”, but it is a valid “way”.” … what is a “way”? i’m being earnest.
do you mean “way” of looking at the world? a “way” of doing business? a “way” of manner and speaking? dress? attitude? a “way” to weigh away whey to fuel production of the “way”? (sorry, couldn’t help myself with that one.)
this is what originally set me off (and my apologies to Gene, which apparently [and fittingly?] did not happen in an ‘unusually civil and thoughtful’ “way”)…
if we’re all talking about the same “thing”? the same ‘group of people’? what exactly is the one thread holding it all together?
By “way” I mean the way they write.
By “they” I mean Tao Lin, Brandon Scott Gorrell, Zachary German, Ellen Kennedy, and maybe Noah Cicero (although I would probably consider Cicero’s writing to be more “Rustbelt Realism” than “Gchat Realism”). Those are the writers I’ve read that I would include in this group. I would also include others who write in a similar vein, and whose work can be found all over the internet, on sites like bear parade and Pangur Ban Party. Someone else might think “they” are someone different.
And I probably shouldn’t speak for stephen, as I am well aware that he is perfectly capable of speaking for himself, but I’m pretty sure that when he wrote “I mean they …. life and emotions” he meant how “they” write.
By “way” I mean the way they write.
By “they” I mean Tao Lin, Brandon Scott Gorrell, Zachary German, Ellen Kennedy, and maybe Noah Cicero (although I would probably consider Cicero’s writing to be more “Rustbelt Realism” than “Gchat Realism”). Those are the writers I’ve read that I would include in this group. I would also include others who write in a similar vein, and whose work can be found all over the internet, on sites like bear parade and Pangur Ban Party. Someone else might think “they” are someone different.
And I probably shouldn’t speak for stephen, as I am well aware that he is perfectly capable of speaking for himself, but I’m pretty sure that when he wrote “I mean they …. life and emotions” he meant how “they” write.
By “way” I mean the way they write.
By “they” I mean Tao Lin, Brandon Scott Gorrell, Zachary German, Ellen Kennedy, and maybe Noah Cicero (although I would probably consider Cicero’s writing to be more “Rustbelt Realism” than “Gchat Realism”). Those are the writers I’ve read that I would include in this group. I would also include others who write in a similar vein, and whose work can be found all over the internet, on sites like bear parade and Pangur Ban Party. Someone else might think “they” are someone different.
And I probably shouldn’t speak for stephen, as I am well aware that he is perfectly capable of speaking for himself, but I’m pretty sure that when he wrote “I mean they …. life and emotions” he meant how “they” write.
i had never heard of bearparade, and after some clickety clicks, copity copies and searchity searches, found this: “People who have gotten published at Bear Parade know that literature is dead, it has gone the way of painting, poetry, jazz, sculpture, and heavy metal, it is dead.”
why, oh my.
how times flies.
like KY jelly.
through the body.
hey yall cld someone give me, like, the cliff notes of these comments and maybe copy-paste the good ones (not the ones by morgen)
hey yall cld someone give me, like, the cliff notes of these comments and maybe copy-paste the good ones (not the ones by morgen)
hey yall cld someone give me, like, the cliff notes of these comments and maybe copy-paste the good ones (not the ones by morgen)
you’re both very welcome, brittany.
you’re both very welcome, brittany.
you’re both very welcome, brittany.
update: “good morning, midnight” is highly awesome, funny, well-written, spare in a way i like, seems kind of profound actually, etc. not quite done yet.
update: “good morning, midnight” is highly awesome, funny, well-written, spare in a way i like, seems kind of profound actually, etc. not quite done yet.
update: “good morning, midnight” is highly awesome, funny, well-written, spare in a way i like, seems kind of profound actually, etc. not quite done yet.
Am Appy Realism would be snappier + reference CRLS. just a thought
Am Appy Realism would be snappier + reference CRLS. just a thought
Am Appy Realism would be snappier + reference CRLS. just a thought
in case it needs clarification, i am joking, or something.
in case it needs clarification, i am joking, or something.
in case it needs clarification, i am joking, or something.
thought it was pretty funny when today i couldn’t
thought it was pretty funny when today i couldn’t
thought it was pretty funny when today i couldn’t
D’accord. Someone sent me a link to this. A review of a review, eh? Well, I think you make some good points. And while I agree with some and not with others, I think you make substansive argument, I stand by my argument that art is concerned with truth and that this work does falls short of that. Nothing more. Thank you for this discussion.
D’accord. Someone sent me a link to this. A review of a review, eh? Well, I think you make some good points. And while I agree with some and not with others, I think you make substansive argument, I stand by my argument that art is concerned with truth and that this work does falls short of that. Nothing more. Thank you for this discussion.
P.S. Missing words… it is sunday!
P.S. Missing words… it is sunday!
D’accord. Someone sent me a link to this. A review of a review, eh? Well, I think you make some good points. And while I agree with some and not with others, I think you make substansive argument, I stand by my argument that art is concerned with truth and that this work does falls short of that. Nothing more. Thank you for this discussion.
P.S. Missing words… it is sunday!
i read this today and really liked it
this essay i think is ‘truth’
not ‘high truth’ but like ‘deep’ truth
im making it worse i think
oh well liked it i thought it was true in the most infantile, unprejudiced way
like a baby looking at the world and just ‘being honest’
these are the human roots of writing
the initial instinct towards art is kind of dumb
or just ‘human’
thanks noah cicero