Random
REASONS YOU SHOULD NOT DATE WRITERS (IF YOU ARE A WRITER)
not a writer
1. Writing is not mysterious to them, so they will not romanticize, mythologize, or idealize what you do.
2. You will not as easily be able to get out of things because you need to write. (And you should be able to. You should be able say “I can’t go to the movie tonight like I said I would, because I got this idea and I have to write it down, otherwise I’ll lose momentum.” It’s a legitimate excuse.Paradoxically, non-writers are much more understanding about these things than writers.)
3. Reading and/or critiquing each other’s work is terribly awkward and fraught with nuance. It may result in the laying of emotional landmines.
4. If you are more successful than they are, they will, at least on some level, be jealous. If they are more successful than you, you will, at least on some level, be jealous.
6. One person using the relationship as material is problematic enough. Both people using it is like CatDog trying to eat itself.
7. You will be poor.
If not other writers, though, then who? Readers, of course.
Related thought; do these rules apply differently to male and female writers? Discuss.
Related thought; do these rules apply differently to male and female writers? Discuss.
No. Don’t even date readers.
No. Don’t even date readers.
I married an artist. It’s great because we are able to critically discuss what we are working on, without too much jealousy or authority.
I married an artist. It’s great because we are able to critically discuss what we are working on, without too much jealousy or authority.
yes, what about artists as in visual art? If I you are an artist yourself? Apart from the money thing…
yes, what about artists as in visual art? If I you are an artist yourself? Apart from the money thing…
I hate it when things are fraught with nuance.
I hate it when things are fraught with nuance.
antidote to reason 4: if you think of yourselves as a writer power couple competing with other couples instead of as two writers competing with each other, then every success your partner has will further your power and status as a couple. this also helps with #3 because when you are being critiqued by your partner, you know that your partner has selfish motives for wanting your work to be as great as possible, so you don’t get personally offended.
i think about my writer friends this way, too. my writer friends are my best readers. and i feel that their successes make me look good, if anything, not bad. i mean this. i never put down my friends even playfully; it has never made sense to me. the communal ego.
antidote to reason 4: if you think of yourselves as a writer power couple competing with other couples instead of as two writers competing with each other, then every success your partner has will further your power and status as a couple. this also helps with #3 because when you are being critiqued by your partner, you know that your partner has selfish motives for wanting your work to be as great as possible, so you don’t get personally offended.
i think about my writer friends this way, too. my writer friends are my best readers. and i feel that their successes make me look good, if anything, not bad. i mean this. i never put down my friends even playfully; it has never made sense to me. the communal ego.
I date/live with a writer.
We never read each other’s stuff.
We about talk about books and leave each other alone when our office doors are closed.
We are poor but that’s ok.
We stay out of each other’s business (he doesn’t even read HTMLgiant.)
We don’t (yet) need to use the relationship as material because we have enough from our pasts.
I think these are good guidelines for any writer who ends up in a relationship with another writer.
But Nick could be right and maybe it’s just a ticking bomb, in which case we will both pilfer the wreckage for scenes and personality ticks.
I date/live with a writer.
We never read each other’s stuff.
We about talk about books and leave each other alone when our office doors are closed.
We are poor but that’s ok.
We stay out of each other’s business (he doesn’t even read HTMLgiant.)
We don’t (yet) need to use the relationship as material because we have enough from our pasts.
I think these are good guidelines for any writer who ends up in a relationship with another writer.
But Nick could be right and maybe it’s just a ticking bomb, in which case we will both pilfer the wreckage for scenes and personality ticks.
note to potential suitors: i am a writer, and writing is still mysterious to me. i romanticize, mythologize, and idealize it every day. otherwise how would i go on.
note to potential suitors: i am a writer, and writing is still mysterious to me. i romanticize, mythologize, and idealize it every day. otherwise how would i go on.
amen to #2 and its usefulness w/r/t living with a ‘nonwriter’
amen to #2 and its usefulness w/r/t living with a ‘nonwriter’
loved/needed this post. compelled to share.
1. yes
2. not necessarily my experience – would try it if i thought it would work.
3. still happens with writer/non-writer couples
4. yeah, probably
5. (is missing)
6. is hilarious
7. sad/true
loved/needed this post. compelled to share.
1. yes
2. not necessarily my experience – would try it if i thought it would work.
3. still happens with writer/non-writer couples
4. yeah, probably
5. (is missing)
6. is hilarious
7. sad/true
“readers”? haha. unless you’re, like, stephen king or nick hornby, your readers are most likely writers, so…you do the math.
“readers”? haha. unless you’re, like, stephen king or nick hornby, your readers are most likely writers, so…you do the math.
Sommer, agreed.
I would expand on this: don’t even date another artist. Date someone who enjoys art, but has no interest in making it themselves. Also, who would like to do something that provides some sort of income. And enjoy art with you on the side.
Sommer, agreed.
I would expand on this: don’t even date another artist. Date someone who enjoys art, but has no interest in making it themselves. Also, who would like to do something that provides some sort of income. And enjoy art with you on the side.
After 12 years, I only agree with #7.
After 12 years, I only agree with #7.
I have found the opposite is true for 1/2/3. 4 is right. The missing #5 is that writers always secretly feel that they are the center of the emotional universe and there cannot be two centers.
I have found the opposite is true for 1/2/3. 4 is right. The missing #5 is that writers always secretly feel that they are the center of the emotional universe and there cannot be two centers.
I date an artist and he never reads my writing. I never suggested he should. Works fine.
I date an artist and he never reads my writing. I never suggested he should. Works fine.
I disagree — I married a writer and feel that writing brought us together. Once we got over some initial awkwardness about critiquing each other’s work — we’ve been in writing groups together — we are each other’s best critic while also being a source of endless support and encouragement. We want the other to succeed so there is rarely any jealousy — the only envy that occurs is usually rooted in one’s own insecurity. Plus, I already know he’s a better writer than I am, so it’s a non-issue. As far as using the same material, i.e. our lives, that’s not a problem — he doesn’t write veiled autobiography and I have chosen to steer clear of writing about our relationship (there’s not much to write about anyway). And we’re not rich, but we each have day jobs, so we keep the money flowing. What I’m trying to say is, don’t NOT date someone just because he or she is a writer or artist or whatever. Though I generally recommend staying away from musicians.
My girlfriend isn’t a writer but all of these apply to her
I chose the wrong spouse, i guess?
I love it when things are fraught with nuance.
I disagree — I married a writer and feel that writing brought us together. Once we got over some initial awkwardness about critiquing each other’s work — we’ve been in writing groups together — we are each other’s best critic while also being a source of endless support and encouragement. We want the other to succeed so there is rarely any jealousy — the only envy that occurs is usually rooted in one’s own insecurity. Plus, I already know he’s a better writer than I am, so it’s a non-issue. As far as using the same material, i.e. our lives, that’s not a problem — he doesn’t write veiled autobiography and I have chosen to steer clear of writing about our relationship (there’s not much to write about anyway). And we’re not rich, but we each have day jobs, so we keep the money flowing. What I’m trying to say is, don’t NOT date someone just because he or she is a writer or artist or whatever. Though I generally recommend staying away from musicians.
My girlfriend isn’t a writer but all of these apply to her
I chose the wrong spouse, i guess?
I love it when things are fraught with nuance.
Totally disagree with #2. The exact opposite of that. And I think 3 is only a real problem if one person doens’t respect the other person’s work.
The rest make sense though.
Totally disagree with #2. The exact opposite of that. And I think 3 is only a real problem if one person doens’t respect the other person’s work.
The rest make sense though.
i have been married 37 years. my wife and I have known each other even longer — since third grade. she is a nurse (well, she is actually a hospital administrator at this point). it’s perfect preparation for living with a writer.
i have been married 37 years. my wife and I have known each other even longer — since third grade. she is a nurse (well, she is actually a hospital administrator at this point). it’s perfect preparation for living with a writer.
i date/live with a non-writer and i love it. her interests are high fashion. i don’t want to talk about writing with her or in my free time in general–not always at least. we read some of the same books sometimes and disagree which is refreshing and challenging. but mostly we expose each other to new things/ideas.
i date/live with a non-writer and i love it. her interests are high fashion. i don’t want to talk about writing with her or in my free time in general–not always at least. we read some of the same books sometimes and disagree which is refreshing and challenging. but mostly we expose each other to new things/ideas.
Good writers can be great editors.
Good writers can be great editors.
Bibliophiles make great critics.
Bibliophiles make great critics.
babe, we need to talk
i guess i should have done this in person but i knew you’d be checking the giant
i am beyond disheartened that not once (i begged!) you called my member “the giant.” when you come home tonight, i shall be one, maybe two, states away, yelling into the tape recorder we bought together, my revised ending to our one jointly-produced story “Me and the Deuce”
you are not religious
babe, we need to talk
i guess i should have done this in person but i knew you’d be checking the giant
i am beyond disheartened that not once (i begged!) you called my member “the giant.” when you come home tonight, i shall be one, maybe two, states away, yelling into the tape recorder we bought together, my revised ending to our one jointly-produced story “Me and the Deuce”
you are not religious
somewhat likewise, my wife is a nursing home social worker. she barely blinks at anything i say.
somewhat likewise, my wife is a nursing home social worker. she barely blinks at anything i say.
Duly noted.
My SO is a writer and she reads my stuff. I read hers. She does non-fic, I do fiction. Critique sessions can get really intense. There’s sometimes yelling and crying and hurt feelings and weeks long depression afterward. In the end, it works. She is a great editor. Most of the stories she has suggested I write or assigned (we do writing exercises together) are published. I don’t think i’m as good a critic as she is, but she always asks for my advice. Sometimes I’m reluctant to get into a critiquing session because I know how emotionally fraught it can be, but fuck it. It never jeopardizes the relationship. In fact, it’s a crucial part of the relationship.
Duly noted.
My SO is a writer and she reads my stuff. I read hers. She does non-fic, I do fiction. Critique sessions can get really intense. There’s sometimes yelling and crying and hurt feelings and weeks long depression afterward. In the end, it works. She is a great editor. Most of the stories she has suggested I write or assigned (we do writing exercises together) are published. I don’t think i’m as good a critic as she is, but she always asks for my advice. Sometimes I’m reluctant to get into a critiquing session because I know how emotionally fraught it can be, but fuck it. It never jeopardizes the relationship. In fact, it’s a crucial part of the relationship.
so good, nick. so good it hurts.
so good, nick. so good it hurts.
you know what i’m talking about!
you know what i’m talking about!
you must be bored
you must be bored
so you’re saying you need sugar people
so you’re saying you need sugar people
in a word, yes
in a word, yes
I live with a writer and I think they’re all true except for #2. We understand when the other one needs to write. We can also tell when the other one is just using it as a lame excuse.
I only partially agree with #6. Subject matter can be an issue but we’ve complained more when the other WASN’T writing about us (specifically, when they were writing about someone else instead).
That said, so what. Date a lawyer and he’s never home. Date a scientist and he’ll secretly think you’re stupid.
I live with a writer and I think they’re all true except for #2. We understand when the other one needs to write. We can also tell when the other one is just using it as a lame excuse.
I only partially agree with #6. Subject matter can be an issue but we’ve complained more when the other WASN’T writing about us (specifically, when they were writing about someone else instead).
That said, so what. Date a lawyer and he’s never home. Date a scientist and he’ll secretly think you’re stupid.
If there was a way I could both slow clap and golf clap at the same time, I would.
If there was a way I could both slow clap and golf clap at the same time, I would.
I agree with Amelia. #4, in particular, is total crap in my estimation. Nonwriters absolutely do not get that you need to spend a lot of time writing, and can be extremely whiny about it. Writers I’ve dated are like, “sure, I get it. do your thing.”
The problem is, a lot of people have absolutely no hobbies at all, at least none that require them to work by themselves, and therefore, they don’t get it when you can’t spend 24/7 with them…or at least your non-“real” work time, (i.e., at a more traditional, paid endeavor).
Maybe it’s because I’m a woman, but men don’t seem to find my writing mysterious…?
I agree with Amelia. #4, in particular, is total crap in my estimation. Nonwriters absolutely do not get that you need to spend a lot of time writing, and can be extremely whiny about it. Writers I’ve dated are like, “sure, I get it. do your thing.”
The problem is, a lot of people have absolutely no hobbies at all, at least none that require them to work by themselves, and therefore, they don’t get it when you can’t spend 24/7 with them…or at least your non-“real” work time, (i.e., at a more traditional, paid endeavor).
Maybe it’s because I’m a woman, but men don’t seem to find my writing mysterious…?
Haha, nice.
yeah, I find this argument weird. My best relationships have been with artists. I honestly am beginning to think I can’t date anyone who isn’t an artist/writer/something…they just approach life differently.
Haha, nice.
yeah, I find this argument weird. My best relationships have been with artists. I honestly am beginning to think I can’t date anyone who isn’t an artist/writer/something…they just approach life differently.
oh my, a thousand apologies – #4 is the one I agreed with! I meant #2 is the one that didn’t gel at all with my experience! oops.
oh my, a thousand apologies – #4 is the one I agreed with! I meant #2 is the one that didn’t gel at all with my experience! oops.
Damn straight. I tried the starving artist thing and it didn’t work out so well. I am shallow and enjoy good wine, good food and good clothes. That’s why I married me a government em-ploy-ee.
Overall though, in reading the comments below, I do wonder if some of these are bigger issues with men than with women. I honestly have the opposite opinion overall…by far my best relationships have been with writers and/or artists. But in all cases, they had to be pretty secure of themselves and their work. I think if you expect to be a superhero to your mate, then this is going to be an issue. If you’re confident, less so…probably on both sides.
Still, I think a little professional jealousy is unavoidable, if you’re doing the same kind of stuff. In all cases, the art/genres/audiences for my work and theirs were decidedly different. But honestly, the same could be said for friends. I know a lot of friendships that have been strained due to professional jealousies of this kind. It’s pretty amateurish though, once you get past a certain point.
Damn straight. I tried the starving artist thing and it didn’t work out so well. I am shallow and enjoy good wine, good food and good clothes. That’s why I married me a government em-ploy-ee.
Overall though, in reading the comments below, I do wonder if some of these are bigger issues with men than with women. I honestly have the opposite opinion overall…by far my best relationships have been with writers and/or artists. But in all cases, they had to be pretty secure of themselves and their work. I think if you expect to be a superhero to your mate, then this is going to be an issue. If you’re confident, less so…probably on both sides.
Still, I think a little professional jealousy is unavoidable, if you’re doing the same kind of stuff. In all cases, the art/genres/audiences for my work and theirs were decidedly different. But honestly, the same could be said for friends. I know a lot of friendships that have been strained due to professional jealousies of this kind. It’s pretty amateurish though, once you get past a certain point.
your #5 is funny! Yes, I think writing (and art in general) do breed a kind of self-centeredness. Unfortunately. :)
your #5 is funny! Yes, I think writing (and art in general) do breed a kind of self-centeredness. Unfortunately. :)
Yes! I’m a lady writer, and no dude I dated ever took any interest in my writing until I dated a writer. No curiosity, no searching questions, certainly no reading of my work. I think (if I may make sweeping and psychologizing generalizations) that these non-writer dudes felt threatened by it because it was not something they could do and it was something that took time away from time spent with them. I’d take some cursory and fleeting jealousies over that sort of avoidance any day.
Oh, plus, one thing I think helps my current relationship is that we have pretty different writing styles and ideas. There’s a feeling of mutual respect and admiration as opposed to competition.
Yes! I’m a lady writer, and no dude I dated ever took any interest in my writing until I dated a writer. No curiosity, no searching questions, certainly no reading of my work. I think (if I may make sweeping and psychologizing generalizations) that these non-writer dudes felt threatened by it because it was not something they could do and it was something that took time away from time spent with them. I’d take some cursory and fleeting jealousies over that sort of avoidance any day.
Oh, plus, one thing I think helps my current relationship is that we have pretty different writing styles and ideas. There’s a feeling of mutual respect and admiration as opposed to competition.
So, I can only check the internet at random times, as I´m basically living in the jungle right now and internet is not reliable, so I´ve only just now noticed that I somehow deleted number 5 while posting. And so it shall forever remain a secret, what number 5 on my list was!
For the record, I haven´t dated a writer in a very long time. See above.
agreed. this is best in my opinion. to each his or her own though…
So, I can only check the internet at random times, as I´m basically living in the jungle right now and internet is not reliable, so I´ve only just now noticed that I somehow deleted number 5 while posting. And so it shall forever remain a secret, what number 5 on my list was!
For the record, I haven´t dated a writer in a very long time. See above.
agreed. this is best in my opinion. to each his or her own though…
I think it´s a good idea to date (for me) to date women who work in social work or nonprofit stuff…do something not so introspective.
I think it´s a good idea to date (for me) to date women who work in social work or nonprofit stuff…do something not so introspective.
This is great.
This is great.
i guess it helps if you view “arguing” as productive conversation and like taking risks, seeking out new experiences.
i guess it helps if you view “arguing” as productive conversation and like taking risks, seeking out new experiences.
do not date your writing professor (if you are a writer)
do not date your writing professor (if you are a writer)
Does anyone want to go on a date?
I am so lonely.
Does anyone want to go on a date?
I am so lonely.
Never date a penguin. They are all fucking bitches who wave their arms.
Never date a penguin. They are all fucking bitches who wave their arms.
Mi esposo of one year, two months is both dyslexic and aliterate in two languages. Which works out beautifully, since I never have to worry what he thinks of my work. i just tell him it’s genius and he believes me.
He’s not so much a sugar person as he is un papi d’azucar.
Mi esposo of one year, two months is both dyslexic and aliterate in two languages. Which works out beautifully, since I never have to worry what he thinks of my work. i just tell him it’s genius and he believes me.
He’s not so much a sugar person as he is un papi d’azucar.
i’ve never dated another writer. i have to admit, i’ve always felt annoyed when ex-girlfriends gave a shit about my writing. that’s the one thing i want them to leave alone.
i’ve never dated another writer. i have to admit, i’ve always felt annoyed when ex-girlfriends gave a shit about my writing. that’s the one thing i want them to leave alone.
Yeah, i agree. I´m just not inclined. I spend so much time thinking about writing that i just can´t deal with a love interest whose head is locked into that creative space. i´d rather date a doctor or lawyer. i sound like the stereotype of a middle’class heterosexual woman.
Yeah, i agree. I´m just not inclined. I spend so much time thinking about writing that i just can´t deal with a love interest whose head is locked into that creative space. i´d rather date a doctor or lawyer. i sound like the stereotype of a middle’class heterosexual woman.
What is an emotional universe?
What is an emotional universe?
I think this is similar to the issue of whether to have a money-job that has anything to do with writing or not. I’ve tried both. For a year I worked with cheese and I barely wrote. Now I teach comp and lit and I write a lot more. Maybe the cheese got me to that place, but I have a different interpretation, which is that I thrive on surfeit. The more I talk about writing and make friends with writers and read and teach about writing, the better my writing is at least by my standards. I think a lot of writers thrive on deprivation, or at least juxtaposition, instead, and that their unrelated day jobs, or unrelated relationships, feeds their writing energy. Me I can’t get enough. Except I watch a lot of tv, I guess that’s my non-writing outlet, except that I also really want to write a tv show one day so I think of it as research too.
I think this is similar to the issue of whether to have a money-job that has anything to do with writing or not. I’ve tried both. For a year I worked with cheese and I barely wrote. Now I teach comp and lit and I write a lot more. Maybe the cheese got me to that place, but I have a different interpretation, which is that I thrive on surfeit. The more I talk about writing and make friends with writers and read and teach about writing, the better my writing is at least by my standards. I think a lot of writers thrive on deprivation, or at least juxtaposition, instead, and that their unrelated day jobs, or unrelated relationships, feeds their writing energy. Me I can’t get enough. Except I watch a lot of tv, I guess that’s my non-writing outlet, except that I also really want to write a tv show one day so I think of it as research too.
2nd this question
2nd this question
Amy, write about university life! That is a rich untapped world just waiting for your talents to unveil it!
Amy, write about university life! That is a rich untapped world just waiting for your talents to unveil it!
Obviously there’s no right answer to this – for some people it works, others it doesn’t, but I don’t think it’s fair to say that all writers are alike as people, meaning because one relationship with an artist or non-artist doesn’t work out doesn’t mean that all artists should or shouldn’t date. I’ve dated writers and it’s sucked, I was married to a non-artist and that relationship worked for a while, but had its share of ‘professional’ jealousy even though we were interested in different things, and I’m in a relationship now with a writer that’s great for all the reasons a relationship with another writer can be great – mutual love and respect for something that is a huge part of our lives. It’s also nice to be with somebody who loves to talk about books.
The professional jealousy thing – so far it’s escaped my writer relationship – I think for many, at least part of the time, writing is like any other ladder-climbing job – who can build the longest (thickest?) CV the fastest, forgetting about the art-making part, or at least putting that after the tangible, objective markers of “success” – publications, etc – when really it’s about (or should be about) creating art. But that type of thinking exists in every pursuit (longest CV, highest salary, biggest office, most publications, most expensive car, biggest house, most books read, and so on – people like to put numbers on things and the higher the number, unfortunately, is at least part of the way a lot of people measure value in other people) – so I think it’s fair to say that the danger of professional jealousy exists in every relationship. For me one of the best things about being with a writer is sharing (and loving) each others work – not sharing publication news – but having an amazing, supportive, critical first reader
One that is not logical or experiential. Writers spend a lot of time manipulating theirs for fun and profit. It’s all fun and games until someone throws a wine bottle at your head
Obviously there’s no right answer to this – for some people it works, others it doesn’t, but I don’t think it’s fair to say that all writers are alike as people, meaning because one relationship with an artist or non-artist doesn’t work out doesn’t mean that all artists should or shouldn’t date. I’ve dated writers and it’s sucked, I was married to a non-artist and that relationship worked for a while, but had its share of ‘professional’ jealousy even though we were interested in different things, and I’m in a relationship now with a writer that’s great for all the reasons a relationship with another writer can be great – mutual love and respect for something that is a huge part of our lives. It’s also nice to be with somebody who loves to talk about books.
The professional jealousy thing – so far it’s escaped my writer relationship – I think for many, at least part of the time, writing is like any other ladder-climbing job – who can build the longest (thickest?) CV the fastest, forgetting about the art-making part, or at least putting that after the tangible, objective markers of “success” – publications, etc – when really it’s about (or should be about) creating art. But that type of thinking exists in every pursuit (longest CV, highest salary, biggest office, most publications, most expensive car, biggest house, most books read, and so on – people like to put numbers on things and the higher the number, unfortunately, is at least part of the way a lot of people measure value in other people) – so I think it’s fair to say that the danger of professional jealousy exists in every relationship. For me one of the best things about being with a writer is sharing (and loving) each others work – not sharing publication news – but having an amazing, supportive, critical first reader
One that is not logical or experiential. Writers spend a lot of time manipulating theirs for fun and profit. It’s all fun and games until someone throws a wine bottle at your head
Guess it depends on the writer. I think emotions are for painters and singer-songerwriters… maybe poets too.
Guess it depends on the writer. I think emotions are for painters and singer-songerwriters… maybe poets too.
“I think emotions are for painters and singer-songerwriters… maybe poets too.”
lincoln, this is my favorite comment of the new year.
“I think emotions are for painters and singer-songerwriters… maybe poets too.”
lincoln, this is my favorite comment of the new year.
Back the fuck off, Yeh. She’s (potentially) mine.
Back the fuck off, Yeh. She’s (potentially) mine.
dated nothing but non-writers. had a chance to date a visual artist/musician, but got really scared because she totally got all my poetry (got in the sense she could wade through it without looking at me with tears in her eyes like, “I DONT GET IT”). I got scared and ran away.
date nothing but artists. seriously. do it.
the sex was fantastic with the non-writers.
so i can only imagine the artists…..
dated nothing but non-writers. had a chance to date a visual artist/musician, but got really scared because she totally got all my poetry (got in the sense she could wade through it without looking at me with tears in her eyes like, “I DONT GET IT”). I got scared and ran away.
date nothing but artists. seriously. do it.
the sex was fantastic with the non-writers.
so i can only imagine the artists…..
Ha Lincoln, call it pathos then. “Pathetic universe” is more apt anyway.
Ha Lincoln, call it pathos then. “Pathetic universe” is more apt anyway.
that’s more like it! i thought htmlg was the writer form of j-date until this post…
that’s more like it! i thought htmlg was the writer form of j-date until this post…
[…] HTML Giant offers some reasons why writers shouldn’t date each other: “2. You will not as easily be able to get out of things because you need to write. (And you should be able to. You should be able say “I can’t go to the movie tonight like I said I would, because I got this idea and I have to write it down, otherwise I’ll lose momentum.” It’s a legitimate excuse.Paradoxically, non-writers are much more understanding about these things than writers.)” This is total crap, in my opinion. Regular people seldom understand that writers have to, you know, right. Plus, flaking on prior social engagements because “the muse struck” is total amateur hour. I say this as the spouse of a novelist. Share and Enjoy: […]
I nuance when fraught with things.
I nuance when fraught with things.
I trip with nuanced trippiness when fraught with things immaterial.
Which is most of the time.
I trip with nuanced trippiness when fraught with things immaterial.
Which is most of the time.
The only successful writer couple I can think of is Ryan Harty (“Bring me your Saddest Arizona”) and Julie Orringer (“How to Breathe Underwater”). Stephen King and Michael Chabon are both married to writers, but who’s ever heard of — or read — them? Writers don’t make for good gf/bf material. Let’s face it. They’re are selfish, self-centered and moody. Who would want to date a person like that? It’s a small miracle I’m married.
The only successful writer couple I can think of is Ryan Harty (“Bring me your Saddest Arizona”) and Julie Orringer (“How to Breathe Underwater”). Stephen King and Michael Chabon are both married to writers, but who’s ever heard of — or read — them? Writers don’t make for good gf/bf material. Let’s face it. They’re are selfish, self-centered and moody. Who would want to date a person like that? It’s a small miracle I’m married.
dammit. no wonder she said no.
dammit. no wonder she said no.
“I think emotions are for painters and singer-songerwriters… maybe poets too.”
they have a term for people who don’t experience emotions. they’re called sociopaths.
“I think emotions are for painters and singer-songerwriters… maybe poets too.”
they have a term for people who don’t experience emotions. they’re called sociopaths.
[…] HTML Giant offers some reasons why writers shouldn’t date each other: “2. You will not as easily be able to get out of things because you need to write. (And you should be able to. You should be able say “I can’t go to the movie tonight like I said I would, because I got this idea and I have to write it down, otherwise I’ll lose momentum.” It’s a legitimate excuse.Paradoxically, non-writers are much more understanding about these things than writers.)” This is total crap, in my opinion. Regular people seldom understand that writers have to, you know, right. Plus, flaking on prior social engagements because “the muse struck” is total amateur hour. I say this as the spouse of a novelist. […]
No, dude you got that wrong. They have a term for people who are run by emotions: children.
No, dude you got that wrong. They have a term for people who are run by emotions: children.
I would love to date a writer. I’m casually seeing a guy who barely even reads which is fine. We get on quite well, but I’m curious as to what it would be like to date someone with similar interests.
I would love to date a writer. I’m casually seeing a guy who barely even reads which is fine. We get on quite well, but I’m curious as to what it would be like to date someone with similar interests.
“We get on quite well” is one of my favorite phrases.
“We get on quite well” is one of my favorite phrases.
I’m married to a scientist. He reads Star Wars novels, price guide for collectibles, and whatever I leave in the bathroom. Talking with him about that last category of reading is one of my favorite pastimes.
I’m married to a scientist. He reads Star Wars novels, price guide for collectibles, and whatever I leave in the bathroom. Talking with him about that last category of reading is one of my favorite pastimes.
yes, susan – this mirrors my experience almost exactly!
yes, susan – this mirrors my experience almost exactly!
I don’t care about this post or any of the responses. But I would like to know the name of the woman reading the Agatha Christie novel.
I don’t care about this post or any of the responses. But I would like to know the name of the woman reading the Agatha Christie novel.
agreed. my “readers” are my handful of writers-friends. where are you finding readers, nick?
agreed. my “readers” are my handful of writers-friends. where are you finding readers, nick?
matt: you’re great!
matt: you’re great!
By readers I don’t mean “readers who are fans of your work.” I mean people who like to read (and in your opinion have good taste). You…do know some readers, don’t you?
By readers I don’t mean “readers who are fans of your work.” I mean people who like to read (and in your opinion have good taste). You…do know some readers, don’t you?
Interesting. I would say my final bit about it being a good idea to date writers is related to #2 (or why I included it). Because I think the ideal person is one who values writing but isn’t a writer him or herself.
Interesting. I would say my final bit about it being a good idea to date writers is related to #2 (or why I included it). Because I think the ideal person is one who values writing but isn’t a writer him or herself.
I don’t know that either. Is it Jessica Alba?
I don’t know that either. Is it Jessica Alba?
Feisty, Nick. I like it. Yes, I do know some readers. & readers who are not writers seem to be nicer people, less melodramatic, less solipsistic. By which I mean, awesome post.
Feisty, Nick. I like it. Yes, I do know some readers. & readers who are not writers seem to be nicer people, less melodramatic, less solipsistic. By which I mean, awesome post.
thank you for humoring me, catherine
thank you for humoring me, catherine
+1 for the government employee
+1 for the government employee
indeed! she does have the habit of calling my flash “bathroom material” which i think is meant somewhat positively
indeed! she does have the habit of calling my flash “bathroom material” which i think is meant somewhat positively
…I think people who have written and understand writing, but do not actively write, or who currently write in genres unrelated to your own or who write for others (say for instance, as a communications professional for an organization or something) rather than themselves or for “art” are a happy medium, able to “get” it, while not becoming competitive. Also maybe prevents both of you from becoming consumed by your writing simultaneously and neglecting one another?? My partner has an undergraduate creative writing degree and spent years before I met him working on a memoir project, and because of this takes me seriously and knows something about what writing does to a person’s psychology, and also sometimes challenges me in productive ways (for instance, as I am significantly younger and initially was less experienced, his perspective challenged me to develop self-discipline and critical judgment re: the practice of writing and publishing), but he is currently too occupied by the sustainable design nonprofit he started and runs to devote any time to his own creative work.
…I think people who have written and understand writing, but do not actively write, or who currently write in genres unrelated to your own or who write for others (say for instance, as a communications professional for an organization or something) rather than themselves or for “art” are a happy medium, able to “get” it, while not becoming competitive. Also maybe prevents both of you from becoming consumed by your writing simultaneously and neglecting one another?? My partner has an undergraduate creative writing degree and spent years before I met him working on a memoir project, and because of this takes me seriously and knows something about what writing does to a person’s psychology, and also sometimes challenges me in productive ways (for instance, as I am significantly younger and initially was less experienced, his perspective challenged me to develop self-discipline and critical judgment re: the practice of writing and publishing), but he is currently too occupied by the sustainable design nonprofit he started and runs to devote any time to his own creative work.
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+39 089 842 6126
How many lira are you willing to spend to pass this multiple choice test in order to get a position in the local government here in beautiful Naples, Italy?
If you answer the bonus question correctly the remainder of the test is unnecessary. In fact there will be no tiresome paperwork at all.
Bonus question. Pick one of the following: a) M. Fontana b) C. Fontana c) O. Fontana D) I. FONTANA!!!!!!
(U.S. Currency is also accepted but offer is CASH ONLY)
i think somewhere in there you need to add this logic:
female writers == daddy issues
male writers == megalomania.
i think somewhere in there you need to add this logic:
female writers == daddy issues
male writers == megalomania.
As someone happily partnered with a writer, here is my point-my-point rebuttal.
1. The actual profession itself may not be so mysterious, but neither of us have grown incurious about the written word. If one cannot find joy, romance, and other forms of possibility within language, reading, and writing, then it is quite possible that the quibbling individual is not really a writer, or that existence and material has stagnated.
2. Such a statement imputes that both parties are incapable of time management and are inflexible to each other’s needs. Writers can be just as understanding about the need for the other to write as non-writers. This is not mystique, but personal and professional obligation. Compromises can be reached. Needs can be vocalized. The empathetic writer in a relationship can balance much. Living is not just about writing.
3. Not if you establish honesty from the get-go. If you are absolutely clear that you will offer the other an unvarnished opinion, and the other can take it, then there’s no need for awkwardness. The other writer can also opt out of this critique if they feel that it interferes with the relationship. Establishing specific boundaries that work from person to person is the best policy among paired writers, just as it is non-writer relationships
4. You assume that jealousy arises from another’s success instead of congratulations and encouragement. Some writers in relationship are perfectly happy being the quiet observer, amused by others assuming that one partner is more “important” than the other through the degree of public recognition. It is, after all, the pleasure of the work that counts. Sometimes, it’s translatable to an audience. Sometimes, it isn’t.
5. What happened to Point 5?
6. It shouldn’t be a problem if the writer clears it with the other person. Why jeopardize a relationship by using some relationship fodder as material when you can simply ask? In the best of cases, the writer will also outline the ramifications.
7. Money isn’t everything. If you’re creative enough to write, then you’re creative enough to find low-cost romantic opportunities.
Really, Nick, I don’t know if you’ve been burned or not by a relationship with a writer. And I’m very sorry if you have. But you can’t generalize like this. Writers aren’t all that different from other people in relationships. They may live more Bohemian lives and be stranger. But the basic ground rules for relationships aren’t altogether different.
As someone happily partnered with a writer, here is my point-my-point rebuttal.
1. The actual profession itself may not be so mysterious, but neither of us have grown incurious about the written word. If one cannot find joy, romance, and other forms of possibility within language, reading, and writing, then it is quite possible that the quibbling individual is not really a writer, or that existence and material has stagnated.
2. Such a statement imputes that both parties are incapable of time management and are inflexible to each other’s needs. Writers can be just as understanding about the need for the other to write as non-writers. This is not mystique, but personal and professional obligation. Compromises can be reached. Needs can be vocalized. The empathetic writer in a relationship can balance much. Living is not just about writing.
3. Not if you establish honesty from the get-go. If you are absolutely clear that you will offer the other an unvarnished opinion, and the other can take it, then there’s no need for awkwardness. The other writer can also opt out of this critique if they feel that it interferes with the relationship. Establishing specific boundaries that work from person to person is the best policy among paired writers, just as it is non-writer relationships
4. You assume that jealousy arises from another’s success instead of congratulations and encouragement. Some writers in relationship are perfectly happy being the quiet observer, amused by others assuming that one partner is more “important” than the other through the degree of public recognition. It is, after all, the pleasure of the work that counts. Sometimes, it’s translatable to an audience. Sometimes, it isn’t.
5. What happened to Point 5?
6. It shouldn’t be a problem if the writer clears it with the other person. Why jeopardize a relationship by using some relationship fodder as material when you can simply ask? In the best of cases, the writer will also outline the ramifications.
7. Money isn’t everything. If you’re creative enough to write, then you’re creative enough to find low-cost romantic opportunities.
Really, Nick, I don’t know if you’ve been burned or not by a relationship with a writer. And I’m very sorry if you have. But you can’t generalize like this. Writers aren’t all that different from other people in relationships. They may live more Bohemian lives and be stranger. But the basic ground rules for relationships aren’t altogether different.
Not at all, Ms. Lacey. I’m sorry to come in here like Dr. Phil or something. But you’re doing okay here because you’ve clearly established ground rules that respect each other’s needs. As I said downthread, it’s all about figuring out what the other person needs and adapting accordingly. You seem to have done just that. It isn’t a ticking bomb if you both keep yourselves informed of needs and developments. I think you’re on the right track. Best of luck.
Not at all, Ms. Lacey. I’m sorry to come in here like Dr. Phil or something. But you’re doing okay here because you’ve clearly established ground rules that respect each other’s needs. As I said downthread, it’s all about figuring out what the other person needs and adapting accordingly. You seem to have done just that. It isn’t a ticking bomb if you both keep yourselves informed of needs and developments. I think you’re on the right track. Best of luck.
Mark Doty and Paul Lisicky.
Mark Doty and Paul Lisicky.
My wife is applying to MFA programs in the studio arts and has been diligently working on her personal statements. During this time she’s been distracted, moody and indifferent to pretty much anything five feet beyond the computer.
You’d think I’d have the sense to keep these complaints to myself.
My wife is applying to MFA programs in the studio arts and has been diligently working on her personal statements. During this time she’s been distracted, moody and indifferent to pretty much anything five feet beyond the computer.
You’d think I’d have the sense to keep these complaints to myself.
Sam Michel and Noy Holland
Sam Michel and Noy Holland
I think what Nick is trying to say is: only date people who worship you and respect your abstractions.
I think what Nick is trying to say is: only date people who worship you and respect your abstractions.
absolutely right
absolutely right
if emitting a short, amused chortle counts as laughing out loud, i did laugh out loud at this.
if emitting a short, amused chortle counts as laughing out loud, i did laugh out loud at this.
Two writers in a relationship are two too many.
Two writers in a relationship are two too many.
I’m married to a writer who is in my program and, more specifically, my workshops. I came here with her. It works out really well for us, which I think freaks people out. So far no jealousy, mainly we get pissed at a couple of people who like one of us much better than the other for no especially good reason.
Never thought I’d be happy with a writer, though. As a general rule I hate writers.
I’m married to a writer who is in my program and, more specifically, my workshops. I came here with her. It works out really well for us, which I think freaks people out. So far no jealousy, mainly we get pissed at a couple of people who like one of us much better than the other for no especially good reason.
Never thought I’d be happy with a writer, though. As a general rule I hate writers.
well then i’m a toys’r’us kid
well then i’m a toys’r’us kid
I actually haven’t ever dated a writer, for the mostly facetious reasons listed above. But I think the primary reason is–I just don’t want to date someone who does almost exactly the same thing I do. I spend so much time thinking about writing and talking about writing, and my best friends are writers, so… w/ a girlfriend I want to talk about something else. And I’d rather be with someone whose job *I* can idealize in some way.
Certainly there is a counterpart list to the one above: Reasons You SHOULD Date Writers (If You Are A Writer). Maybe somebody else wants to put together that list…
I actually haven’t ever dated a writer, for the mostly facetious reasons listed above. But I think the primary reason is–I just don’t want to date someone who does almost exactly the same thing I do. I spend so much time thinking about writing and talking about writing, and my best friends are writers, so… w/ a girlfriend I want to talk about something else. And I’d rather be with someone whose job *I* can idealize in some way.
Certainly there is a counterpart list to the one above: Reasons You SHOULD Date Writers (If You Are A Writer). Maybe somebody else wants to put together that list…
I’ve never dated a writer, but my current SO, and three I’ve had before, were interested in painting and other arts.
I’d imagine if I did date a writer though, it might be harder to date someone in my “field” (poetry) because I think competition would come up at some point. Unless we decided that our writing was a team effort.
I’ve never dated a writer, but my current SO, and three I’ve had before, were interested in painting and other arts.
I’d imagine if I did date a writer though, it might be harder to date someone in my “field” (poetry) because I think competition would come up at some point. Unless we decided that our writing was a team effort.
lol re ‘catdog’
lol re ‘catdog’
I’ve never dated another writer, but I’ve broken up with or stopped talking to people who pretended to love me, but could not be bothered to actually read my work. That includes not just girl friends. My best friend is my editor who has been with me for over 20 years.
I’ve never dated another writer, but I’ve broken up with or stopped talking to people who pretended to love me, but could not be bothered to actually read my work. That includes not just girl friends. My best friend is my editor who has been with me for over 20 years.
Agreed–if your partner is a writer in a different genre or style, it helps a lot.
Though I still have issues with letting him criticize! It’s worse, in some ways, because I KNOW he’s right (though I hate admitting it to him–especially when he is slicing away at a passage I particularly like).
I’ve been married to a fellow writer for over two years and we’ve been friends for about six years now. The preceding friendship probably helps, but the fact that he writes primarily poetry and I write prose, coupled with the fact that he has chosen to pursue work in another venue (law) outside of his writing, helps a bit as well. There are fewer issues with the jealousy aspect when your fellow writer isn’t pursuing it as an actual vocation.
I think being fellow writers and understanding our respective vocational callings has been useful to our relationship overall. I don’t think a non-writer would really understand my desire to lose the 9-to-5 in order to produce more writing (and, *gasp!* perhaps even pursue a graduate degree in the field!?). He’d probably think I was just slacking or some sort of flaky artist.
I have to admit that I don’t know many serious readers (beyond those who read Rowling and Meyers, etc) that aren’t also, at least to some degree, writers themselves, so I think finding a reader partner would be difficult. Most “readers” I’ve met are more likely to completely lack understanding of the craft itself and its demands. However, readers ARE more likely to romanticize the craft, which could be a positive or a negative, depending upon the situation.
Agreed–if your partner is a writer in a different genre or style, it helps a lot.
Though I still have issues with letting him criticize! It’s worse, in some ways, because I KNOW he’s right (though I hate admitting it to him–especially when he is slicing away at a passage I particularly like).
I’ve been married to a fellow writer for over two years and we’ve been friends for about six years now. The preceding friendship probably helps, but the fact that he writes primarily poetry and I write prose, coupled with the fact that he has chosen to pursue work in another venue (law) outside of his writing, helps a bit as well. There are fewer issues with the jealousy aspect when your fellow writer isn’t pursuing it as an actual vocation.
I think being fellow writers and understanding our respective vocational callings has been useful to our relationship overall. I don’t think a non-writer would really understand my desire to lose the 9-to-5 in order to produce more writing (and, *gasp!* perhaps even pursue a graduate degree in the field!?). He’d probably think I was just slacking or some sort of flaky artist.
I have to admit that I don’t know many serious readers (beyond those who read Rowling and Meyers, etc) that aren’t also, at least to some degree, writers themselves, so I think finding a reader partner would be difficult. Most “readers” I’ve met are more likely to completely lack understanding of the craft itself and its demands. However, readers ARE more likely to romanticize the craft, which could be a positive or a negative, depending upon the situation.
amen
this is a deep and powerful statement, amy
amen
this is a deep and powerful statement, amy
lol
lol
my wife is a reader, but not a very active one, we’ve been married for 8 years now, dated for another 5 before that – in many ways, she’s an ideal audience for me, in that she doesn’t read much, nor does she usually like my work (too dark and strange for her) so when i can keep her attention, when she really LOVES a story of mine, i feel like i’ve kind of broken through – it’s a nice balance, actually, and while i have dated artists in the past, never a writer
my wife is a reader, but not a very active one, we’ve been married for 8 years now, dated for another 5 before that – in many ways, she’s an ideal audience for me, in that she doesn’t read much, nor does she usually like my work (too dark and strange for her) so when i can keep her attention, when she really LOVES a story of mine, i feel like i’ve kind of broken through – it’s a nice balance, actually, and while i have dated artists in the past, never a writer
[…] Ten Things You Should Know Before You Date a Writer Inspired by this blog entry and having nothing else to write about, I thought I’d milk this concept and come up with my own […]
[…] So where do you stand on the debate? And, in a somewhat related vein–writers dating writers. Good idea, or WORST idea? HTML Giant says WORST idea. Here’s why. […]
#1 would actually be among the top reasons I WOULD want to date another writer.
I’m a songwriter, and part of getting to the ‘real’ part of a relationship is getting past someone idealizing what I do or how it gets done. I would much rather someone understand that it’s work and I am not a magical unicorn. Pedestals are too far off the ground for me… I’m already tall.
#1 would actually be among the top reasons I WOULD want to date another writer.
I’m a songwriter, and part of getting to the ‘real’ part of a relationship is getting past someone idealizing what I do or how it gets done. I would much rather someone understand that it’s work and I am not a magical unicorn. Pedestals are too far off the ground for me… I’m already tall.
[…] why writers should never date other writers. […]
I’m a not-writer engaged to a writer, and I think this article is right on. That said, most of the comments are too… which just speaks to the immense variation present in relationships.
I like reading her stuff. It’s really good! But probably the coolest thing is being able to read books together, out loud.
I’m a not-writer engaged to a writer, and I think this article is right on. That said, most of the comments are too… which just speaks to the immense variation present in relationships.
I like reading her stuff. It’s really good! But probably the coolest thing is being able to read books together, out loud.
[…] what do you think? Would you date a writer? This article tells why writers shouldn’t date writers. It makes sense but I don’t […]
#5 – BRILLIANT!!!!
[…] by this blog entry and having nothing else to write about, I thought I’d milk this concept and come up with my own […]
[…] Nick Antosca: REASONS YOU SHOULD NOT DATE WRITERS (IF YOU ARE A WRITER) […]