July 30th, 2009 / 3:47 pm
Snippets
Snippets
Matthew Simmons—
So, you sit down and you write something. And you write for a while. And you get to a certain point and you think you’re done because you have finished a “story.” How do you know? (You, readers/writers.) What’s a story?
Tim O’Brien says: “The problem with unsuccessful stories is usually simple: they are boring, a consequence of the failure of imagination. To vividly imagine and to vividly render extraordinary human events, or sequences of events, is the hard-lifting, heavy-duty, day-by-day, unending labor of a fiction writer.”
Tim O’Brien says: “The problem with unsuccessful stories is usually simple: they are boring, a consequence of the failure of imagination. To vividly imagine and to vividly render extraordinary human events, or sequences of events, is the hard-lifting, heavy-duty, day-by-day, unending labor of a fiction writer.”
story sack
story sack
It feels right.
It feels right.
A story is a bunch of words that does something–even if it appears to have done nothing. I don’t know what I am writing.
A story is a bunch of words that does something–even if it appears to have done nothing. I don’t know what I am writing.
The only way.
The only way.
that shit works like magicks, i am a story sack baby
that shit works like magicks, i am a story sack baby
Every story begins with a promise and ends with the delivery of that promise.
Every story begins with a promise and ends with the delivery of that promise.
you know it’s done when you type “but it was all a dream”
you know it’s done when you type “but it was all a dream”
A friend of mine is sort of seriously having a crisis of confidence with her work because of this question. She feels like she doesn’t know what a story is anymore.
And you know what? I don’t know that I can definitively say,”well, it’s this…”
Seems like we might be suggesting here—by virtue of the simple, unquantifiable, and funny responses to the question—that maybe asking the question is simply overthinking the process.
A friend of mine is sort of seriously having a crisis of confidence with her work because of this question. She feels like she doesn’t know what a story is anymore.
And you know what? I don’t know that I can definitively say,”well, it’s this…”
Seems like we might be suggesting here—by virtue of the simple, unquantifiable, and funny responses to the question—that maybe asking the question is simply overthinking the process.
Yes, exactly: story is what you make it. There are some monomythical traits that most stories (that have endured over time) share, but the definition, ultimately, resides in you.
I’d tell her to stop thinking about it.
We do not think our way to right action, we act our way to right thinking. – David Milch
Yes, exactly: story is what you make it. There are some monomythical traits that most stories (that have endured over time) share, but the definition, ultimately, resides in you.
I’d tell her to stop thinking about it.
We do not think our way to right action, we act our way to right thinking. – David Milch
Yeah. The moment you discover Bobby Ewing in the shower, the story is over.
Yeah. The moment you discover Bobby Ewing in the shower, the story is over.
Possibly this is all my fault. She sent me something. I read it and said, “this feels like an outline.” She sent it to a journal. The journal published it. They thought it was a “story.”
Maybe I was being an ungenerous reader. I read it and said “this feels like an outline,” but I meant, “this feels like the sort of outline you would produce for one of your stories [I’ve read many of her stories] before you write it.” In fact, reading it fairly, and outside the context of every other story she has produced, someone else thought it was a story. Maybe I should have read the story with fresher eyes.
Possibly this is all my fault. She sent me something. I read it and said, “this feels like an outline.” She sent it to a journal. The journal published it. They thought it was a “story.”
Maybe I was being an ungenerous reader. I read it and said “this feels like an outline,” but I meant, “this feels like the sort of outline you would produce for one of your stories [I’ve read many of her stories] before you write it.” In fact, reading it fairly, and outside the context of every other story she has produced, someone else thought it was a story. Maybe I should have read the story with fresher eyes.
I used to read Word Up magazine
Salt’n’Pepa and Heavy D up in the limousine
Hangin’ pictures on my wall
Every Saturday Rap Attack, Mr. Magic, Marley Marl
I let my tape rock ’til my tape popped
Smokin’ weed and bamboo, sippin’ on private stock
Way back, when I had the red and black lumberjack
With the hat to match
I used to read Word Up magazine
Salt’n’Pepa and Heavy D up in the limousine
Hangin’ pictures on my wall
Every Saturday Rap Attack, Mr. Magic, Marley Marl
I let my tape rock ’til my tape popped
Smokin’ weed and bamboo, sippin’ on private stock
Way back, when I had the red and black lumberjack
With the hat to match
Okay, now you’ve got to post/link the story.
Okay, now you’ve got to post/link the story.
I don’t think there is a workable definition to go by. A story is a collection of words that have some effect on the reader (or that attempts to have some effect on the reader). Sometimes it’s just one word.
I don’t think there is a workable definition to go by. A story is a collection of words that have some effect on the reader (or that attempts to have some effect on the reader). Sometimes it’s just one word.
I think it’s finished when you can no longer appreciate writing it any more but then have the thought that maybe some one else might appreciate it, but the thought is in a humble way. And then maybe it gets published and your thinking becomes less humble and is more ‘why don’t they appreciate it, its soooo good’ or ‘i can’t believe they appreciate it, it’s not even that good schmuckkkssss.’
I think it’s finished when you can no longer appreciate writing it any more but then have the thought that maybe some one else might appreciate it, but the thought is in a humble way. And then maybe it gets published and your thinking becomes less humble and is more ‘why don’t they appreciate it, its soooo good’ or ‘i can’t believe they appreciate it, it’s not even that good schmuckkkssss.’
my story sack-
http://jasonkrugman.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/testyphoto.jpg
my story sack-
http://jasonkrugman.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/testyphoto.jpg
If I’m writing it, the story starts with Bobby Ewing in the shower and his request for my narrator to bend over.
If I’m writing it, the story starts with Bobby Ewing in the shower and his request for my narrator to bend over.
I think it’s a difficult thing to discuss in any serious way without a particular story in front of us. At least I know I’m suspicious of generalizing abstractions.
I think it’s a difficult thing to discuss in any serious way without a particular story in front of us. At least I know I’m suspicious of generalizing abstractions.
Come to a stopping place, then cut off the last paragraph.
Come to a stopping place, then cut off the last paragraph.
Alright, it’s me. I’m the friend of Matthew’s having the crisis. It’s very nice to see all of this advertised here on HTML Giant. Thank you, Matthew.
Here’s the deal:
I have multiple stories, and with each one I say to myself, “Well, that’s finished.” And with each one, someone (usually with an MFA) says, “That’s not a story.” or “That’s not finished.” or “That’s just an outline.” (Matthew, it’s not all your fault.) The question becomes: When do you know your story is finished–like you know it in your bones– to the level where you can tell people to f*ck off with the “I need more here” comments? Do I just have to grow a pair and get over it?
Alright, it’s me. I’m the friend of Matthew’s having the crisis. It’s very nice to see all of this advertised here on HTML Giant. Thank you, Matthew.
Here’s the deal:
I have multiple stories, and with each one I say to myself, “Well, that’s finished.” And with each one, someone (usually with an MFA) says, “That’s not a story.” or “That’s not finished.” or “That’s just an outline.” (Matthew, it’s not all your fault.) The question becomes: When do you know your story is finished–like you know it in your bones– to the level where you can tell people to f*ck off with the “I need more here” comments? Do I just have to grow a pair and get over it?
pretty much
pretty much
The story in question is this one.
Here’s a part of a comment:
>’“He bounced grandchildren on his knee. He gave them candy and money. He kissed them goodnight,” they said.’
I got shivers after this: “He won medals. He pinned them on his uniform. He typed letters for presidents. He drank. He suffocated a man with a plastic bag.”
Even after I read it now, for the third time, I can’t shake how hard it hits me.<
The story in question is this one.
Here’s a part of a comment:
>’“He bounced grandchildren on his knee. He gave them candy and money. He kissed them goodnight,” they said.’
I got shivers after this: “He won medals. He pinned them on his uniform. He typed letters for presidents. He drank. He suffocated a man with a plastic bag.”
Even after I read it now, for the third time, I can’t shake how hard it hits me.<
yeah, i like that method quite a bit.
yeah, i like that method quite a bit.
I think it’s a great story, actually. Matthew is an idiot. And I hate to sound like a broken record, but I think it should end sooner. I would have cut it off after the line: “He posed for a photo.” That’s where the tension and momentum are strongest. After that it deflates a bit, so when it ends it feels less charged, less intense. I say end it where it’s most intense.
I think it’s a great story, actually. Matthew is an idiot. And I hate to sound like a broken record, but I think it should end sooner. I would have cut it off after the line: “He posed for a photo.” That’s where the tension and momentum are strongest. After that it deflates a bit, so when it ends it feels less charged, less intense. I say end it where it’s most intense.
I think in that case it depends more reader expectations. The story in question is meaty, there are a lot of ideas behind it, it deals with a man’s whole life and into his children and grandchildren. If you look at it that way, you CAN see it as an outline, a very brief one at that. But it doesn’t fail to ‘tell the tale’ or something, does it? The ideas came through, cherry-picked images were vivid. So if you, as probably the editor did, come to read it from the standpoint of ‘short and sweet’ then it’s a fully-formed story. Maybe the context helped? Maybe people that like longer stories and like your work want you to flesh things out? Fleshing out is always possible, but if you don’t feel it, it’s pointless.
I think in that case it depends more reader expectations. The story in question is meaty, there are a lot of ideas behind it, it deals with a man’s whole life and into his children and grandchildren. If you look at it that way, you CAN see it as an outline, a very brief one at that. But it doesn’t fail to ‘tell the tale’ or something, does it? The ideas came through, cherry-picked images were vivid. So if you, as probably the editor did, come to read it from the standpoint of ‘short and sweet’ then it’s a fully-formed story. Maybe the context helped? Maybe people that like longer stories and like your work want you to flesh things out? Fleshing out is always possible, but if you don’t feel it, it’s pointless.
Thanks, Shya. With your advice to cut the endings, plus Chekhov’s advice to cut the first half, my next story will be three sentences only. This will allow more time to play Plants and Zombies.
Thanks, Shya. With your advice to cut the endings, plus Chekhov’s advice to cut the first half, my next story will be three sentences only. This will allow more time to play Plants and Zombies.