December 23rd, 2009 / 8:18 pm
Snippets
Snippets
Matthew Simmons—
When people started binding books for the first time, do you think a bunch of people were really mad because they were just way into the way a scroll looks and feels? Did they tell people that scrolls were totally more authentic?
there should be a day where every htmlgiant post starts out like a bit of observational comedy.
there should be a day where every htmlgiant post starts out like a bit of observational comedy.
scrolls are still more authentic. fact.
scrolls are still more authentic. fact.
i’d take a scroll over an e-reader any day of the week
i’d take a scroll over an e-reader any day of the week
when the first person made a scroll and wrote something down on it do you think people thought, “well, what’s wrong with chiseling shit into stone? scrolls can get wet and they can tear. stone’s pretty fucking indelible. i like to cuss.” i think they did. i bet the stone tablet salesmen panicked and published op ed tablets about “the death of stone.” then there were probably the people who were all, “stone is too heavy. i don’t wanna carry that shit around. the scroll provides reading mobility. i can start reading my old-timey erotica next to this tree. then i can roll it up and take it to a different tree that is far away from here and finish reading about horse-fucking over there. i like to cuss too.” then there were probably people who were all pissed off that they’d have to buy the same literature again in a new format so that they didn’t look like they were living in the last decade. i wonder what louis braille would make of all this ebook business.
when the first person made a scroll and wrote something down on it do you think people thought, “well, what’s wrong with chiseling shit into stone? scrolls can get wet and they can tear. stone’s pretty fucking indelible. i like to cuss.” i think they did. i bet the stone tablet salesmen panicked and published op ed tablets about “the death of stone.” then there were probably the people who were all, “stone is too heavy. i don’t wanna carry that shit around. the scroll provides reading mobility. i can start reading my old-timey erotica next to this tree. then i can roll it up and take it to a different tree that is far away from here and finish reading about horse-fucking over there. i like to cuss too.” then there were probably people who were all pissed off that they’d have to buy the same literature again in a new format so that they didn’t look like they were living in the last decade. i wonder what louis braille would make of all this ebook business.
I don’t remember all the details, but I heard a lecture by a rare books librarian where she said that yeah, people thought codices were fine for some things, but that scrolls were (at least for a while) still the preferred medium for ‘important’ texts. She used this as a way to suggest that maybe book fetishism would eventually die out in favor of digital – internet and ebooks.
I don’t remember all the details, but I heard a lecture by a rare books librarian where she said that yeah, people thought codices were fine for some things, but that scrolls were (at least for a while) still the preferred medium for ‘important’ texts. She used this as a way to suggest that maybe book fetishism would eventually die out in favor of digital – internet and ebooks.
Probably just like today — they didn’t have a choice in what they medium they could publish.
Probably just like today — they didn’t have a choice in what they medium they could publish.
No.
Well, no to the stone tablet thing. When the scroll came out I think people rejoiced and were generally relieved they could be free of the cumbersome stone. I don’t find the similar lines between the e-reader and the bound book in this.
Between the scroll and bound book, I think so, yes. But I think the difference is, well, different. The bound book is still a scroll only not so much a scroll. They are more the same than different. An e-reader and a book are more different than the same.
Want me to list the differences? Cuz I’m not going to.
There are too many factors now. Like money and the ability to steal. Its easier to steal a book from a library or from a bookstore than it is to steal an e-reader or an e-book. I don’t care if someone stole my book. Like System of a Down probably doesn’t care if someone steals their album, unless that whole album title thing was a marketing gimmick, but I have more faith in System’s artistic integrity.
No.
Well, no to the stone tablet thing. When the scroll came out I think people rejoiced and were generally relieved they could be free of the cumbersome stone. I don’t find the similar lines between the e-reader and the bound book in this.
Between the scroll and bound book, I think so, yes. But I think the difference is, well, different. The bound book is still a scroll only not so much a scroll. They are more the same than different. An e-reader and a book are more different than the same.
Want me to list the differences? Cuz I’m not going to.
There are too many factors now. Like money and the ability to steal. Its easier to steal a book from a library or from a bookstore than it is to steal an e-reader or an e-book. I don’t care if someone stole my book. Like System of a Down probably doesn’t care if someone steals their album, unless that whole album title thing was a marketing gimmick, but I have more faith in System’s artistic integrity.
I don’t think the librarian’s intent was to create a one to one analogy, only to say there was resistance to codices, and printing (versus hand-copied), that might be similar to current resistance to internet and ebook publishing. I can’t site a source, but I don’t thinks he made this up. I also don’t think she was suggesting (nor am I) that there aren’t differences or that because codices ultimately ‘won’ that the same will happen with books. Cost is a clear factor – the number of people who can afford laptops and kindles and phones to read ebooks in the world is pretty limited versus who can afford a book, or the ability to borrow books from a library, but I would see this as an incentive to the publishers because they (or Amazon) now get to sell a piece of hardware to read ebooks – for now, there’s an incentive to do both. I’m not sure ‘ease of being stolen’ is a factor for publishers in their decision to keep publishing books, though.
we’re talking about more than a delivery system here. the delivery system determines what can and will be delivered. mcluhan observed this. postman reiterated and expanded on it. gitlin has gone further than both, arguing that involvement in a delivery system is what the delivery system delivers.
we’re talking about more than a delivery system here. the delivery system determines what can and will be delivered. mcluhan observed this. postman reiterated and expanded on it. gitlin has gone further than both, arguing that involvement in a delivery system is what the delivery system delivers.
Oh… we’re talking publishers? I was commenting from the standpoint of writers… I am of the camp that anyone can be a publisher. A writer can be a publisher. And under extreme circumstances when market considerations play, when instability begins affecting whether or not you get the reach people how you wish to reach people, a writer will inevitably publish their own material. So when I say ease of being stolen, I mean in those terms. I mean if I want to print up some work in my apartment I can. And then have it out to a bunch of people very quickly. And I can be fairly sure they’ll have it in their hands. Whereas if I do it electronically to an e-reader….
Visualize the difference between walking into a room of people and killing everyone in the room with an AK. You can smell the blood and see the life dying. Take this same event, but stick yourself in a room halfway across and world and you’re guiding a smart bomb. You make contact. But maybe someone gets away. This analogy is kind of stupid. But I like it.
I think the resistance to technology makes sense. There is a pretty clear yarn through history of people resisting technology as this force. Yeah, its weird as fuck, this resistance, but I think its an built in instinctual event. We’re less resistive to the technology of books, but very so to e-objects. Why? Yeah, it is a good question. I think its because it is now becoming more difficult to control. The control is being taken away from us. Yeah, right now if anyone is reading this their shaking their heads and disagreeing. It doesn’t make sense because, in a way, the internet tech has given writers more power. Desktop publishing and all.
I feel these emotions between books and e-objets are kind of irrational. Dunno why this stuff cannot co-exist. I’m kind of confused by it all, really. Why can’t this stuff be like the film industry? Or the music industry?
my post above is entirely too long.
Oh… we’re talking publishers? I was commenting from the standpoint of writers… I am of the camp that anyone can be a publisher. A writer can be a publisher. And under extreme circumstances when market considerations play, when instability begins affecting whether or not you get the reach people how you wish to reach people, a writer will inevitably publish their own material. So when I say ease of being stolen, I mean in those terms. I mean if I want to print up some work in my apartment I can. And then have it out to a bunch of people very quickly. And I can be fairly sure they’ll have it in their hands. Whereas if I do it electronically to an e-reader….
Visualize the difference between walking into a room of people and killing everyone in the room with an AK. You can smell the blood and see the life dying. Take this same event, but stick yourself in a room halfway across and world and you’re guiding a smart bomb. You make contact. But maybe someone gets away. This analogy is kind of stupid. But I like it.
I think the resistance to technology makes sense. There is a pretty clear yarn through history of people resisting technology as this force. Yeah, its weird as fuck, this resistance, but I think its an built in instinctual event. We’re less resistive to the technology of books, but very so to e-objects. Why? Yeah, it is a good question. I think its because it is now becoming more difficult to control. The control is being taken away from us. Yeah, right now if anyone is reading this their shaking their heads and disagreeing. It doesn’t make sense because, in a way, the internet tech has given writers more power. Desktop publishing and all.
I feel these emotions between books and e-objets are kind of irrational. Dunno why this stuff cannot co-exist. I’m kind of confused by it all, really. Why can’t this stuff be like the film industry? Or the music industry?
my post above is entirely too long.
Someone needs to invent a book where the words change depending on the work being read but it remains a book. A thing on paper whose pages I turn and where the words look like ink but they’re nano-#000000-globules if you look closely, but you’ll never look closely because it looks like an ordinary book. Perhaps this would be maddeningly difficult, but surely it could be done. Maybe. And maybe I would like this new book/ereader cyborg.
Now I’m going to send this and scroll down to read my comment.
Someone needs to invent a book where the words change depending on the work being read but it remains a book. A thing on paper whose pages I turn and where the words look like ink but they’re nano-#000000-globules if you look closely, but you’ll never look closely because it looks like an ordinary book. Perhaps this would be maddeningly difficult, but surely it could be done. Maybe. And maybe I would like this new book/ereader cyborg.
Now I’m going to send this and scroll down to read my comment.
I really hope that ebook readers don’t replace paper books.
Can you make notes in the margins of ebooks? I could see ebooks enabling readers in the future better access to the marginellia of their favorite authors. Assuming that those authors are making notes in their ebooks. Other than that I think the world would be fine sticking with books in their current form.
Plus what about libraries? Can a homeless person pee in a nook? Though I wouldn’t mind if one put out the kindle.
I really hope that ebook readers don’t replace paper books.
Can you make notes in the margins of ebooks? I could see ebooks enabling readers in the future better access to the marginellia of their favorite authors. Assuming that those authors are making notes in their ebooks. Other than that I think the world would be fine sticking with books in their current form.
Plus what about libraries? Can a homeless person pee in a nook? Though I wouldn’t mind if one put out the kindle.
“Can a homeless person pee in a nook?”
I like you. You’re very awesome.
“Can a homeless person pee in a nook?”
I like you. You’re very awesome.
Many got the books bound themselves back in that day. The books were in fact chapbooks and pamphlets bound into collections by the reader for safekeeping. Nowadays, these older books are “guillotined” and sold separately, since the “books” as whole objects are without value; it’s the single pamphlet by such-and-such an author that’s worth something on the antique book market.
Many got the books bound themselves back in that day. The books were in fact chapbooks and pamphlets bound into collections by the reader for safekeeping. Nowadays, these older books are “guillotined” and sold separately, since the “books” as whole objects are without value; it’s the single pamphlet by such-and-such an author that’s worth something on the antique book market.
God yes.
God yes.
I’m pretty sure the first books were coptic-bound stone tablets. It was a return to their roots, man.
I’m pretty sure the first books were coptic-bound stone tablets. It was a return to their roots, man.
Everyone has a different idea of when books started and everyone is talking in different time periods in these comments. That’s pretty interesting. The history is all messed up*, and I don’t know if there would have been as much of “book” vs. “e-reader” debate because it wasn’t all about canned choice, there was less consumerism, like twelve people could afford books, etc.
*I know, I know, that’s kind of a dick thing to say. That’s not how I mean it though.
Everyone has a different idea of when books started and everyone is talking in different time periods in these comments. That’s pretty interesting. The history is all messed up*, and I don’t know if there would have been as much of “book” vs. “e-reader” debate because it wasn’t all about canned choice, there was less consumerism, like twelve people could afford books, etc.
*I know, I know, that’s kind of a dick thing to say. That’s not how I mean it though.
I didn’t know that. That’s cool.
I didn’t know that. That’s cool.
i think we should start using vellum again, there are a lot of cows. that would be so metal.
i think we should start using vellum again, there are a lot of cows. that would be so metal.
“Now I’m going to send this and scroll down to read my comment.”
I do this. Do we all do this? (I bet we do)
“Now I’m going to send this and scroll down to read my comment.”
I do this. Do we all do this? (I bet we do)
There is a little clip about people, beeing overextended by this new weird medium “book”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQHX-SjgQvQ
There is a little clip about people, beeing overextended by this new weird medium “book”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQHX-SjgQvQ