January 6th, 2010 / 12:29 pm
Snippets
Snippets
Alexis Orgera—
“Verse is everywhere in language where there is rhythm, everywhere, except on posters and page four of the newspapers. In the genre which we call prose there is verse of every conceivable rhythm, some of it admirable. But in reality there is no prose, there is the alphabet, and then there are verse forms, more or less rigid, more or less diffuse. In every attempt at style there is versification.”
–Mallarmé, “Réponses à des enquetes”
Prose-as-verse. Yes? No?
Is all poetry poetry? (I’m not asking about bad vs. good.) And are verse and poetry the same thing?
All poetry is only more restrictive prose.
All movies are just really short TV shows.
All ham sandwiches are vegetarian sandwiches with ham.
All poetry is only more restrictive prose.
All movies are just really short TV shows.
All ham sandwiches are vegetarian sandwiches with ham.
You rock.
You rock.
It gets tricky because there are prose poems.
I would agree with Mike. Poetry, for the most part, is more condensed, word-wise, than prose.
It gets tricky because there are prose poems.
I would agree with Mike. Poetry, for the most part, is more condensed, word-wise, than prose.
prose is more for ideas; poetry more for emotion.
prose is more for ideas; poetry more for emotion.
What? How?
What? How?
lol
lol
Yeah, insofar as I have any opinion on the matter (I really don’t) I’ve sort of intuitively felt the opposite.
Yeah, insofar as I have any opinion on the matter (I really don’t) I’ve sort of intuitively felt the opposite.
it’s how it breaks down for me personally. do you read poetry for the ideas expressed in it, or for the emotions attached to and stirred by the underlying or motivating ideas of a poem? for me, it’s always the latter.
prose, by its nature, is more expository than poetry. expository poetry would be a bore — if not a contradiction in terms. try writing a Ph.D. dissertation as poetry. you can only write it about poetry. and if you write it poetically, most academics will question the validity of you and your work.
but i do think prose can be poetical. it can be conscious of musicality of words; it can use symbols and indirection; it can display qualities a good poem displays. but that doesn’t make it a poem.
humans have necks. that doesn’t make them giraffes. ,
it’s how it breaks down for me personally. do you read poetry for the ideas expressed in it, or for the emotions attached to and stirred by the underlying or motivating ideas of a poem? for me, it’s always the latter.
prose, by its nature, is more expository than poetry. expository poetry would be a bore — if not a contradiction in terms. try writing a Ph.D. dissertation as poetry. you can only write it about poetry. and if you write it poetically, most academics will question the validity of you and your work.
but i do think prose can be poetical. it can be conscious of musicality of words; it can use symbols and indirection; it can display qualities a good poem displays. but that doesn’t make it a poem.
humans have necks. that doesn’t make them giraffes. ,
that’s like saying ideas are revealed more in history, emotions are found more in science.
i don’t actually consider prose more expository as a rule. there are a lot of assumptions made regarding correct language use when one writes a dissertation or something similar. the less these assumptions are exposed and challenged in experimental texts, the more ossified and less expressive the standard forms become. if anything, the ideas generated by poetical works are what allow works of prose to maintain their ability to convey meaning at all, as meaning relies on the weird
now there’s an argument that the radical departures of language use seen in some poetry tends to occur more as an unconscious process, that this process is easier to “tap” when you’re pissed or sad or whatever. however, the experience of generating a text is not substitutable with the experience of reading it, it is my impression that much of the “better” poetry is less purposed at transporting the reader emotionally than allowing them insight into the effects of an emotion on the writer’s communicative gesture. if it is about feeling, that feeling is the pleasure of stimulation of processing that new patterned complexity. prose that’s less complex would maybe have to depend more on sentiment to maintain the reader’s attention.
that’s like saying ideas are revealed more in history, emotions are found more in science.
i don’t actually consider prose more expository as a rule. there are a lot of assumptions made regarding correct language use when one writes a dissertation or something similar. the less these assumptions are exposed and challenged in experimental texts, the more ossified and less expressive the standard forms become. if anything, the ideas generated by poetical works are what allow works of prose to maintain their ability to convey meaning at all, as meaning relies on the weird
now there’s an argument that the radical departures of language use seen in some poetry tends to occur more as an unconscious process, that this process is easier to “tap” when you’re pissed or sad or whatever. however, the experience of generating a text is not substitutable with the experience of reading it, it is my impression that much of the “better” poetry is less purposed at transporting the reader emotionally than allowing them insight into the effects of an emotion on the writer’s communicative gesture. if it is about feeling, that feeling is the pleasure of stimulation of processing that new patterned complexity. prose that’s less complex would maybe have to depend more on sentiment to maintain the reader’s attention.
rachel, could you have expressed the above as a poem? probably not. but you could have demonstrated it as a poem — that is, the poem could have been an example or embodiment of your thesis. we would as readers then have to infer from the poem the idea or purpose that inspired and animates it.
i write a good deal of prose poetry. there is something transgressive about the form. but it only transgresses if reader and writer bring certain fixed expectations to the experience of prose and poetry.
when i write a poem, i don’t start with an idea per se. i usually start with a phrase or an image. if a coherent idea emerges in the process, great. but i think what i’m after, really, is an experience for both myself and the reader — an experience that you can only go to poetry to have.
rachel, could you have expressed the above as a poem? probably not. but you could have demonstrated it as a poem — that is, the poem could have been an example or embodiment of your thesis. we would as readers then have to infer from the poem the idea or purpose that inspired and animates it.
i write a good deal of prose poetry. there is something transgressive about the form. but it only transgresses if reader and writer bring certain fixed expectations to the experience of prose and poetry.
when i write a poem, i don’t start with an idea per se. i usually start with a phrase or an image. if a coherent idea emerges in the process, great. but i think what i’m after, really, is an experience for both myself and the reader — an experience that you can only go to poetry to have.
Thanks for all these great comments.
Howie, I wonder if that last statement is true. According to many fiction writers I know, the experience of allowing the line (and the language therein) to guide a piece of fiction seems pretty similar to the act of poetic discovery. I don’t know. When I sit down to write fiction, I feel like I’m in kindergarten.
Thanks for all these great comments.
Howie, I wonder if that last statement is true. According to many fiction writers I know, the experience of allowing the line (and the language therein) to guide a piece of fiction seems pretty similar to the act of poetic discovery. I don’t know. When I sit down to write fiction, I feel like I’m in kindergarten.