Technology
Recoup
I have a question.
Here in this video, Sherman Alexie compares digital books to digital music, and says that now, all musicians need to make their money touring instead of by selling records:
| The Colbert Report | Mon – Thurs 11:30pm / 10:30c | |||
| Sherman Alexie | ||||
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Please correct me if I’m wrong here, musicians: most artists never see much money from their recordings. And they didn’t even long before the internet made wide-scale file sharing possible. Because they couldn’t recoup the costs of the recordings they made to their record labels. (Doug Wolk linked to this little post by a member of the band Too Much Joy recently. They still owe nearly $400,000 to Warner before they will ever see a penny of royalties.)
The analogy simply doesn’t hold. If you are making a principled stand based on a false analogy, what then?
Tags: sherman alexie
writers make can money from a book tour? i thought that costed-ed monies. i made something like -$500 this summer “touring”.
writers make can money from a book tour? i thought that costed-ed monies. i made something like -$500 this summer “touring”.
yeah, and he also said, there is no more localized support for reading. i was doing things so i was in and out of the room, but what the fuck is he talking about?
You are wrong.
For most bands, the reason why they don’t make any money off their recordings isn’t because their recordings cost too much to produce–it’s because no one buys them. I haven’t bought an album in over a year, and yet I listen to a ton of it. But guess what–I go to shows.
Analogy holds.
yeah, and he also said, there is no more localized support for reading. i was doing things so i was in and out of the room, but what the fuck is he talking about?
You are wrong.
For most bands, the reason why they don’t make any money off their recordings isn’t because their recordings cost too much to produce–it’s because no one buys them. I haven’t bought an album in over a year, and yet I listen to a ton of it. But guess what–I go to shows.
Analogy holds.
bands don’t usually make much money from records even when they did sell, because their cut is often tiny. merch and ticket sales have always been the major income for musicians on labels, even many indies, with exceptions made often for those who can get big enough to renegotiate their contract because they can do whatever they want. people used to buy records.
bands don’t usually make much money from records even when they did sell, because their cut is often tiny. merch and ticket sales have always been the major income for musicians on labels, even many indies, with exceptions made often for those who can get big enough to renegotiate their contract because they can do whatever they want. people used to buy records.
More importantly, the analogy is shit because books are not music.
As an added bonus, book piracy exists and existed before ereaders even became “popular” (which they’re not, really). A scanned review copy of the final Harry Potter was available for download before the book even came out. Someone even typed the whole damn thing from scratch and put it online. Not being on a Kindle because you think somehow that will save you from e-theft is ignorant of reality. I’m tempted to pirate him just to make myself giggle.
More importantly, the analogy is shit because books are not music.
As an added bonus, book piracy exists and existed before ereaders even became “popular” (which they’re not, really). A scanned review copy of the final Harry Potter was available for download before the book even came out. Someone even typed the whole damn thing from scratch and put it online. Not being on a Kindle because you think somehow that will save you from e-theft is ignorant of reality. I’m tempted to pirate him just to make myself giggle.
Are you sure, Matt? A Tribe Called Quest’s biggest selling album was Low End Theory. After recouping the costs of production and promotion to their label, the members of the band made about 10 grand each on it. They made their money touring, not off album sales.
Are you sure, Matt? A Tribe Called Quest’s biggest selling album was Low End Theory. After recouping the costs of production and promotion to their label, the members of the band made about 10 grand each on it. They made their money touring, not off album sales.
Easy for Alexie to say; he’s frickin’ loaded.
Easy for Alexie to say; he’s frickin’ loaded.
i still buy records
i still buy records
Asking me or Sherman? Clearly a writer can’t make money on a book tour in the way a musician can. But, how many writers make their money on their books? And how many make their money teaching/writing for magazines/or working a day job?
Asking me or Sherman? Clearly a writer can’t make money on a book tour in the way a musician can. But, how many writers make their money on their books? And how many make their money teaching/writing for magazines/or working a day job?
sherman alexie reminds me of this cockatiel i had as a kid.
the cockatiel would sit in his cage and shit, bob his head up and down excitedly and chirp. he would do this repeatedly until i came over and acknowledged the value of his bird shit.
nicely formed. no smell. perfect.
but it was still bird shit.
fuck this guy.
i liked when barry graham ripped alexie a new asshole. it was a good essay.
a good fuck you essay.
gotta love those.
sherman alexie reminds me of this cockatiel i had as a kid.
the cockatiel would sit in his cage and shit, bob his head up and down excitedly and chirp. he would do this repeatedly until i came over and acknowledged the value of his bird shit.
nicely formed. no smell. perfect.
but it was still bird shit.
fuck this guy.
i liked when barry graham ripped alexie a new asshole. it was a good essay.
a good fuck you essay.
gotta love those.
the new lightning bolt album sounds pretty good. i heard a song off it called COLOSSUS and it was awesome.
the new lightning bolt album sounds pretty good. i heard a song off it called COLOSSUS and it was awesome.
i still buy vinyl records
i still buy vinyl records
yes i thought the vinyl part was tacitly implied.
i was just listening to fats waller this morning.
it was pleasant.
yes i thought the vinyl part was tacitly implied.
i was just listening to fats waller this morning.
it was pleasant.
you never know. i know dudes who refer to their digital downloads as “records.” vinyl sounds better. it’s warmer. it makes my whole apartment feel warmer.
you never know. i know dudes who refer to their digital downloads as “records.” vinyl sounds better. it’s warmer. it makes my whole apartment feel warmer.
Matthew,
It seems like you are not being fair here. Indie music and indie publishing == same empty pockets.
at least that’s what i’ve witnessed from the various local shows i go to and from the book shit i go to.
there are varying levels at play here.
now if you are saying it is easier for an average musician to make money over an average writer? absolutely, music == $$
reading is work. d/l books ins’t work.
so sure books will get d/l but most of those people aren’t going to read the books and more than likey would not have paid the scratch for the book.
alexie is laughable. he shuns technology for no apparent reason other than some ominous control and accept the monolithic ways of the publishing house but then ends it with “oh yeah i am a people person. i used to…”
key word is used to.
apparently being a people person is a trait of his youth.
always so hard to be a people person when you wake up in silk pajamas each morning.
Matthew,
It seems like you are not being fair here. Indie music and indie publishing == same empty pockets.
at least that’s what i’ve witnessed from the various local shows i go to and from the book shit i go to.
there are varying levels at play here.
now if you are saying it is easier for an average musician to make money over an average writer? absolutely, music == $$
reading is work. d/l books ins’t work.
so sure books will get d/l but most of those people aren’t going to read the books and more than likey would not have paid the scratch for the book.
alexie is laughable. he shuns technology for no apparent reason other than some ominous control and accept the monolithic ways of the publishing house but then ends it with “oh yeah i am a people person. i used to…”
key word is used to.
apparently being a people person is a trait of his youth.
always so hard to be a people person when you wake up in silk pajamas each morning.
i still buy used cd’s too.
i hear all my favorite record stores are gone now in pdx.
sigh.
i still buy used cd’s too.
i hear all my favorite record stores are gone now in pdx.
sigh.
hmm i think i wasn’t focusing before.
i think we agree.
hmm i think i wasn’t focusing before.
i think we agree.
hey jereme, you still in the OC near ‘the ugly mug’? Ever heard of Viento y Agua in LB?
hey jereme, you still in the OC near ‘the ugly mug’? Ever heard of Viento y Agua in LB?
ah yes. the vinyl myth.
ah yes. the vinyl myth.
what is the myth?
what is the myth?
ah, i love the vinyl myth, partly because it’s half-true. like how digital is only an approximation of sound wavelength, whereas the actual wavelength is basically right there on the record. that warmer sound is often because vinyl has actual depth (the grooves), unlike digital.
no i’m up in hollywood now. that name sounds vaguely familiar but it isn’t flowing in my mind.
i live about 4 minutes from amoeba on sunset but their used records are sort of lacking. the used cd’s are good though.
ah, i love the vinyl myth, partly because it’s half-true. like how digital is only an approximation of sound wavelength, whereas the actual wavelength is basically right there on the record. that warmer sound is often because vinyl has actual depth (the grooves), unlike digital.
no i’m up in hollywood now. that name sounds vaguely familiar but it isn’t flowing in my mind.
i live about 4 minutes from amoeba on sunset but their used records are sort of lacking. the used cd’s are good though.
oh the vinyl sounds better myth?
nerds will propagate their nerdiness.
let vinyl enthusiasts believe what they want to believe.
personally i think it’s the equipment not the media. i have two record players, one an original console unit from like the 70’s i think (got it at goodwill) and the other a small reproduction that sits on my nightstand next to the bed.
i take the same record, put it on the old player, sounds awesome and “warm”, put it on the newer repro and not so much.
still sounds good but digital is way better..
oh the vinyl sounds better myth?
nerds will propagate their nerdiness.
let vinyl enthusiasts believe what they want to believe.
personally i think it’s the equipment not the media. i have two record players, one an original console unit from like the 70’s i think (got it at goodwill) and the other a small reproduction that sits on my nightstand next to the bed.
i take the same record, put it on the old player, sounds awesome and “warm”, put it on the newer repro and not so much.
still sounds good but digital is way better..
Vinyl records sound better for old music recorded with analog technology. New records, recorded with digital technology, sound way better on a digital format. There is simply more of the music there.
Vinyl records sound better for old music recorded with analog technology. New records, recorded with digital technology, sound way better on a digital format. There is simply more of the music there.
i do think certain genres of music are more suited for vinyl.
blues
jazz
rap
fuck you ain’t heard jeezy until you heard the hiss and pop vinyl jeezy.
all the dope boys go crazy
“And how many make their money teaching/writing for magazines/or working a day job?”
This is a fair point, however…. writing for magazines is income that is also affected by digital downloads. I think a fair amoutn of writers make money from some kind of writing (books, magazine, film, etc.) If all those revenue sources dry up it is a much bigger deal than in music where it is correct to say that most bands make their money on touring and merch, not actual record sales.
i do think certain genres of music are more suited for vinyl.
blues
jazz
rap
fuck you ain’t heard jeezy until you heard the hiss and pop vinyl jeezy.
all the dope boys go crazy
“And how many make their money teaching/writing for magazines/or working a day job?”
This is a fair point, however…. writing for magazines is income that is also affected by digital downloads. I think a fair amoutn of writers make money from some kind of writing (books, magazine, film, etc.) If all those revenue sources dry up it is a much bigger deal than in music where it is correct to say that most bands make their money on touring and merch, not actual record sales.
christ, i really didn’t want to get technical. jereme is right. it’s just about the equipment. i have 30+ year old receiver, heavy duty speakers, lots of old records. there’s a messiness to it–a warmth–that i prefer to anything else. no myth.
christ, i really didn’t want to get technical. jereme is right. it’s just about the equipment. i have 30+ year old receiver, heavy duty speakers, lots of old records. there’s a messiness to it–a warmth–that i prefer to anything else. no myth.
ah, the vinyl myth.
ah, the vinyl myth.
bag of dicks
bag of dicks
“More importantly, the analogy is shit because books are not music.”
I’m with this. Consumption is different between these two media. There’s still much more emphasis in book as tangible than with music. Expanding your example, how many of those people hawked copies of Harry Potter simply to read it “first,” and how many of those people probably still went out and bought the actual book to have it on their shelves to complete the set?
That’s not to say nor assume this will always be the case, though, especially not with every book. But really, who cares. Technology moves.
“More importantly, the analogy is shit because books are not music.”
I’m with this. Consumption is different between these two media. There’s still much more emphasis in book as tangible than with music. Expanding your example, how many of those people hawked copies of Harry Potter simply to read it “first,” and how many of those people probably still went out and bought the actual book to have it on their shelves to complete the set?
That’s not to say nor assume this will always be the case, though, especially not with every book. But really, who cares. Technology moves.
I was hoping someone posted about this. His analogy was weak and his complete lack of understanding when it comes to digital publishing was sad. We should all be so lucky as to live in a reality where enough people would want to pirate books that it would subtract from a writer’s bottom line.
I was hoping someone posted about this. His analogy was weak and his complete lack of understanding when it comes to digital publishing was sad. We should all be so lucky as to live in a reality where enough people would want to pirate books that it would subtract from a writer’s bottom line.
Re Ebooks – a comment I recently made on Sina Queyras’ blog:
My problem with such things is that the e-book seems do do nothing but simulate the conventional, physical Codex. There is so much potential there, but none is utilised, to the point where the simulation is lacking, as phisicality (the plane, the (pre-; proto-) semantic event of (physical) page-turning is lost, there is no allowance for fold-outs, transparencies, alternative bindings or page formats…
imagine trying to read Susan Howe, or Jess, or (some) McCaffery or bpNichol, or that multitudinous Oulipo sonnet book (or it’s descendents – there’s a Dusie one that I’ll be writing on soon) on one of these things.
Re Ebooks – a comment I recently made on Sina Queyras’ blog:
My problem with such things is that the e-book seems do do nothing but simulate the conventional, physical Codex. There is so much potential there, but none is utilised, to the point where the simulation is lacking, as phisicality (the plane, the (pre-; proto-) semantic event of (physical) page-turning is lost, there is no allowance for fold-outs, transparencies, alternative bindings or page formats…
imagine trying to read Susan Howe, or Jess, or (some) McCaffery or bpNichol, or that multitudinous Oulipo sonnet book (or it’s descendents – there’s a Dusie one that I’ll be writing on soon) on one of these things.
Not so sure he’s completely off. Musicians make money touring and selling CD’s while they tour. They sell the CD’s at their shows. Not all musicians can pull the sales of Bruce when they tour but who’s going to buy their songs without hearing them for free somewhere else?
Not so sure he’s completely off. Musicians make money touring and selling CD’s while they tour. They sell the CD’s at their shows. Not all musicians can pull the sales of Bruce when they tour but who’s going to buy their songs without hearing them for free somewhere else?
That’s because no big name authors are writing specifically for e-readers or the internet. They’re just publishing their books simultaneously in a platform agnostic way. Nothing wrong with that really.
People have been experimenting with the form (e.g. hypertext fiction has come a long way since the early 90s). When people care to see it, the tweaks and innovations will be there. But given what books actually make money, it’s not surprising that the ereaders are optimized for a mass market paperback clientele.
That’s because no big name authors are writing specifically for e-readers or the internet. They’re just publishing their books simultaneously in a platform agnostic way. Nothing wrong with that really.
People have been experimenting with the form (e.g. hypertext fiction has come a long way since the early 90s). When people care to see it, the tweaks and innovations will be there. But given what books actually make money, it’s not surprising that the ereaders are optimized for a mass market paperback clientele.
sherman: i imagine you have to worry about saving white people’s culture because you are so insignificant in your own. but then again, with that spiffy upper middle class, ivy league, homosexual white male vibe you got going on, i guess you have to try your best to fit in somewhere. and that somewhere is wherever’s paying you the most. you make me puke.
sherman: i imagine you have to worry about saving white people’s culture because you are so insignificant in your own. but then again, with that spiffy upper middle class, ivy league, homosexual white male vibe you got going on, i guess you have to try your best to fit in somewhere. and that somewhere is wherever’s paying you the most. you make me puke.
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