Web Hype
“THAT’S *IT*! YOU AREN’T WERE IN MY MAGAZINE ANYMORE!” and other bizarre things you can (but shouldn’t) say when you edit an ‘electronic magazine,’ or ‘elecamazine,’ as I call it.
Anyway, here’s Matt addressing Blake:
>>Thanks, again, for being honest. That’s why HTML Giant is awesome.
I like being a stick in the mud as well, which is why I just removed your story and bio from the Thieves Jargon archive.<<
This caught my attention, because something very similar was said to me recently after I made some disparaging comments about my own work which had appeared in a back issue of a certain web journal which will not be named. (Mine came in the form of a threat; I haven’t checked to see if it was carried out.) Basically the editor’s thesis was, if I was critical of my own work, and by extension her magazine for publishing it (fairness to her: I was, and am) then fuck me too and she would “un-publish” me as a punishment.
I don’t know Matt, and I don’t read Thieves’ Jargon, so I’ve got nothing to say about him or his project that’s based on research or first-hand experince. But his comment, which may well have been made in jest, for all I know, really stuck with me, because in both cases–mine, and his, assuming the comment was in earnest–there seems to be a prevailing and unquestioned assumption that the purpose of publishing writing is to generate for the author a kind of “capital” or “currency,” which is then in some psychic sense “owed” to the editor, who seems to see him/herself as a sort of issuing bank.
This is a very bad way to think of yourself as an editor, and about the purpose of your editorial project in general. Of course, we know that at a certain level it is the truth of the case–a writer indeed does “get” something very real, albeit intangible (I don’t mean the check) from being in The New Yorker that s/he don’t get from being in Bicycle Goat Review. (Though, conversely, depending who you want to impress, you may well get something from Bicycle Goat that you don’t or can’t from the NY’ker. )
The question, to me, is whether generating this “currency” is the primary goal of the publication or just a happy side-effect. Answering this question is really easy. If you have to think about the answer to it for even a second, or if you are coming on the end of this sentence I’m typing now and still don’t know the answer, let me give you a clue: DON’T EDIT ANYTHING. YOU’RE NOT READY AND YOU WON’T BE GOOD AT IT.
When an editor of an electronic journal, who is in the unique situation of being able to “unpublish” in a way that no print editor can, threatens or actually carries out such an action, what they seem to reveal to me is the cravenness and intellectual bankruptcy of their own enterprise. When you do this, you deal a serious blow to your project’s institutional memory, its continuity, and its integrity. Plus you give a fiendishly literal twist to the phrase “So and so has been published in Bicycle Goat” as it appears in three-line bios all over the face of this great world.
Mourning the victims of Stalin's purges.
One of the most important things an editor can do is stand by the work he or she has published, even if–especially when–the author no longer does. We expect the author to grow and change, and maybe even to disown old work to make way for the new. The editor–especially when s/he is also the publisher and sole proprietor of the enterprise–is supposed to be a somewhat more practical cat, and to have a somewhat longer view of the situation.
Questions: if you “unpublish” me from your journal, does that mean my work is unpublished now? Is this like being a born-again virgin? And if I have a second change of heart, and love my work again, can I take the stuff you removed from Bicycle Goat and send it over to A Public Space? If/when my book comes out, and my work that you un-published is in it, should I put your journal on the copyright page like this: “Dinosaurs are Awesome” first appeared in Bicycle Goat A Public Space.
Crisis on infinite earths! Oh noes!
I’ll be the first to argue that editing and curating are artistic endeavors–at least as much as writing is–so if you want to disown an entire editorial project, that’s one thing, but to re-evaluate and selectively remove work you actually enjoyed and admired and were proud to publish based on personal offense at that writer’s (a) behavior, (b) lack of quid pro quo, (c) change of heart in re their own work and/or your magazine, (d) other, makes you one thing and one thing only: a bad editor.
Sorry, kids, but them’s the breaks.
Purity of heart is to will one thing.
Tags: Bicycle Goat, crisis on infinite earths, editing: sad state of, Stalin, stephen king
justin, your post ALWAYS get buried under other ones. bad karma?
i’ll let matt and blake and respective co’s toil over this one. i just want to say i LOL’d from two things:
‘bicycle goat review’ & ‘dinosaurs are awesome’
justin, your post ALWAYS get buried under other ones. bad karma?
i’ll let matt and blake and respective co’s toil over this one. i just want to say i LOL’d from two things:
‘bicycle goat review’ & ‘dinosaurs are awesome’
Fuck yes.
Here’s some more beef jerky for the aspiring web editor to chew on– your goddamn archives matter.
If I give you writing that I work on for four or five or ten hours, and I expect no money for it, fucking treat my piece right. Don’t change the link, and try to at least keep your shit afloat for more than three months.
I’m going to build a dead journal site, where everyone who can no longer afford to host their web journal can just dump their entire site, and I’ll host it for free.
It’s a sad event for me every time I update the page with links to my old writing.
Dinosaurs ARE awesome.
Fuck yes.
Here’s some more beef jerky for the aspiring web editor to chew on– your goddamn archives matter.
If I give you writing that I work on for four or five or ten hours, and I expect no money for it, fucking treat my piece right. Don’t change the link, and try to at least keep your shit afloat for more than three months.
I’m going to build a dead journal site, where everyone who can no longer afford to host their web journal can just dump their entire site, and I’ll host it for free.
It’s a sad event for me every time I update the page with links to my old writing.
Dinosaurs ARE awesome.
a fucking men
“If/when my book comes out, and my work that you un-published is in it, should I put your journal on the copyright page like this: “Dinosaurs are Awesome” first appeared in Bicycle Goat A Public Space.” — I got tear in my eyes laughing at this.
as for my issue, I really have nothing else to say about Matt. Moreso, I think it is funny that he thought it necessary to go ‘erase’ me anyway (luckily it was a piece I was glad to have erased, hearing that felt like getting a scab off my ass), but more so i just cringe at what a guy with that kind of ‘where’s my dick at’ attitude is running a journal that some people (i can’t say who) think is great and therefore likely should be run responsibly.
* People crazy! *
a fucking men
“If/when my book comes out, and my work that you un-published is in it, should I put your journal on the copyright page like this: “Dinosaurs are Awesome” first appeared in Bicycle Goat A Public Space.” — I got tear in my eyes laughing at this.
as for my issue, I really have nothing else to say about Matt. Moreso, I think it is funny that he thought it necessary to go ‘erase’ me anyway (luckily it was a piece I was glad to have erased, hearing that felt like getting a scab off my ass), but more so i just cringe at what a guy with that kind of ‘where’s my dick at’ attitude is running a journal that some people (i can’t say who) think is great and therefore likely should be run responsibly.
* People crazy! *
This makes me sad (though the title of the post makes me laugh). I remember Justin’s other post, and I know the journal he’s not naming, and I can’t believe the piece was unpublished. Sorry, guys. Wow. Unbelievable.
This makes me sad (though the title of the post makes me laugh). I remember Justin’s other post, and I know the journal he’s not naming, and I can’t believe the piece was unpublished. Sorry, guys. Wow. Unbelievable.
unbelievable is right. what the hell?
unbelievable is right. what the hell?
i totally believe it. people are crazy. writers are batshit crazy.
its more unbelievable that people think that unpublishing something is going to cause some kind of psychic damage? particularly in my case, in which it was a story from like 4 years ago.
i totally believe it. people are crazy. writers are batshit crazy.
its more unbelievable that people think that unpublishing something is going to cause some kind of psychic damage? particularly in my case, in which it was a story from like 4 years ago.
i have to say, the photo selections on this post are so choice
i have to say, the photo selections on this post are so choice
i also would like to point out that HTMLGIANT has now officially linked to Thieves Jargon in this post.
ta da!
i also would like to point out that HTMLGIANT has now officially linked to Thieves Jargon in this post.
ta da!
I can unpublish anything on this blog, including the blog itself, and don’t you writers fucking forget that. Where’s my fucking Diet Coke, Jimmy?
I can unpublish anything on this blog, including the blog itself, and don’t you writers fucking forget that. Where’s my fucking Diet Coke, Jimmy?
quiver in gene’s massive glory.
i have a blue thumb i could use to erase google but i never did that either
god we are nice guys.
ryan, ha, yes, the TJ has now been *OFFICIALLY LINKED*
I hope the aura of the impending link helped Matt Giansteinsensen or whichever feel ‘just that teeny bit more powerful’ last night when he came into his own fist after deleting me from ‘his archives’
POWER SPASMZZZ
quiver in gene’s massive glory.
i have a blue thumb i could use to erase google but i never did that either
god we are nice guys.
ryan, ha, yes, the TJ has now been *OFFICIALLY LINKED*
I hope the aura of the impending link helped Matt Giansteinsensen or whichever feel ‘just that teeny bit more powerful’ last night when he came into his own fist after deleting me from ‘his archives’
POWER SPASMZZZ
A Public Goat would be a good name for a journal.
A Public Goat would be a good name for a journal.
The domain is available.
The domain is available.
this is a good post justin. i only wished you didn’t link thieves jargon though.
i am guessing their dismal statistics are elevating through their glass ceiling.
matt is leeching our readers.
good play matt, good play
this is a good post justin. i only wished you didn’t link thieves jargon though.
i am guessing their dismal statistics are elevating through their glass ceiling.
matt is leeching our readers.
good play matt, good play
oh this shit be believable pr.
i would like to point out matt’s behavior is precisely why i hate most of you writerly type assholes.
i’ve met amputees with firmer grasps on reality.
oh this shit be believable pr.
i would like to point out matt’s behavior is precisely why i hate most of you writerly type assholes.
i’ve met amputees with firmer grasps on reality.
What a disappointment. I still get disappointed with people. I shouldn’t but I do.
>> should I put your journal on the copyright page like this: “Dinosaurs are Awesome” first appeared in Bicycle Goat A Public Space.<<
There’s supposed to be a strikethrough on Bicycle Goat. I don’t know why it isn’t showing up.
>> should I put your journal on the copyright page like this: “Dinosaurs are Awesome” first appeared in Bicycle Goat A Public Space.<<
There’s supposed to be a strikethrough on Bicycle Goat. I don’t know why it isn’t showing up.
blake hits on an essential point:
“i totally believe it. people are crazy. writers are batshit crazy.”
indeed. and, as most editors are writers with their veins twisted into corkscrews, we’re a whole separate breed of crazy.
there is a tendency (and i include myself) for our little brains to whisper, “damn it, i built this thing, it eats up most of my free time and i want to control it and have it be exactly my conception of the world.” but i try to suppress that voice and i think most other editors do too.
at a certain point if your ezine is successful, you come to the realization that it ceases to belong to you.
in another thread i betrayed my own preference literary realism. but i deliberately try to keep word riot from becoming just a repository for my (admittedly) singularly focused tastes. i don’t think folks would keep reading if it was just jackieland.
but that whole letting go process takes awhile. it took me a long while.
i guess my point is just try to be patient with us editor types. yes, we have dominance issues to deal with, but we’re trying
blake hits on an essential point:
“i totally believe it. people are crazy. writers are batshit crazy.”
indeed. and, as most editors are writers with their veins twisted into corkscrews, we’re a whole separate breed of crazy.
there is a tendency (and i include myself) for our little brains to whisper, “damn it, i built this thing, it eats up most of my free time and i want to control it and have it be exactly my conception of the world.” but i try to suppress that voice and i think most other editors do too.
at a certain point if your ezine is successful, you come to the realization that it ceases to belong to you.
in another thread i betrayed my own preference literary realism. but i deliberately try to keep word riot from becoming just a repository for my (admittedly) singularly focused tastes. i don’t think folks would keep reading if it was just jackieland.
but that whole letting go process takes awhile. it took me a long while.
i guess my point is just try to be patient with us editor types. yes, we have dominance issues to deal with, but we’re trying
For everybody’s benefit, let me give this tutorial a shot. If it doesn’t work, everything will look like a garbled mess.
<strike>
does this:
i’m going to cross this out.<blockquote>
does this:
ego free at the HG
For everybody’s benefit, let me give this tutorial a shot. If it doesn’t work, everything will look like a garbled mess.
<strike>
does this:
i’m going to cross this out.<blockquote>
does this:
ego free at the HG
I like Jackie Corley and Word Riot!
you of course have to end the tag with a </strike> or </blockquote> as well.
you of course have to end the tag with a </strike> or </blockquote> as well.
hi Jackie. i’ve never felt your identity overwhelmed the riot. i often think ‘there is a wide balance of weird here.’ i like that.
hi Jackie. i’ve never felt your identity overwhelmed the riot. i often think ‘there is a wide balance of weird here.’ i like that.
hi gene:
here’s your diet coke having just been accepted by bear parade
http://carlaschauer.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/400px-diet_coke_mentos.jpg
Crazy and respectable should not be mutually exclusive.
I like Jackie’s comment.
hi gene:
here’s your diet coke having just been accepted by bear parade
http://carlaschauer.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/400px-diet_coke_mentos.jpg
Crazy and respectable should not be mutually exclusive.
I like Jackie’s comment.
Jimmy-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_79ufqZ5H9M
Jimmy-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_79ufqZ5H9M
i wish movies would embed in comments
i wish movies would embed in comments
people google html tag tutorial
let the internet help you
blake,
we are the a team.
jimmy is murdock, i’m BA Barracus, you’re Hannibal, Ryan is Face, soffi/kendra/catherine are those chicks that randomly changed from season to season but were an integral part of the team specifically for their female persuasiveness, and Justin is that hispanic guy who came in the last season and you kept thinking ‘what the fuck is this guy doing here? he’s not bad but i don’t like him as much as the others.’
Gene is cooter from the dukes of hazard.
people google html tag tutorial
let the internet help you
blake,
we are the a team.
jimmy is murdock, i’m BA Barracus, you’re Hannibal, Ryan is Face, soffi/kendra/catherine are those chicks that randomly changed from season to season but were an integral part of the team specifically for their female persuasiveness, and Justin is that hispanic guy who came in the last season and you kept thinking ‘what the fuck is this guy doing here? he’s not bad but i don’t like him as much as the others.’
Gene is cooter from the dukes of hazard.
Gene, I used the strikethrough button in the editor. It showed up in the draft, but didn’t translate to the post. oh well.
Gene, I used the strikethrough button in the editor. It showed up in the draft, but didn’t translate to the post. oh well.
@Blake & pr & Gene
thanks muchly.
i may not be a writer who delves into the weird and my personal reading preferences tend to stick to the real and gritty, but as an editor i appreciate what absurdism, surrealism, whateverism has to offer.
i hope my comment about realism on that other thread didn’t give anybody the wrong idea about word riot. i was wearing my writer/reader hat, not my editor hat. these are very different and equally snazzy hats. one is a black bowler hat and the other is made of foam and non-blood diamonds and lace.
In Justin’s defense, WordPress can be a pain with simple commands sometimes. Especially if you cut and paste into the text window. For some reason that fucks everything up.
@Blake & pr & Gene
thanks muchly.
i may not be a writer who delves into the weird and my personal reading preferences tend to stick to the real and gritty, but as an editor i appreciate what absurdism, surrealism, whateverism has to offer.
i hope my comment about realism on that other thread didn’t give anybody the wrong idea about word riot. i was wearing my writer/reader hat, not my editor hat. these are very different and equally snazzy hats. one is a black bowler hat and the other is made of foam and non-blood diamonds and lace.
In Justin’s defense, WordPress can be a pain with simple commands sometimes. Especially if you cut and paste into the text window. For some reason that fucks everything up.
Justin: Nailed it.
Also, you made the Dark Tower geek in me feel really good.
Justin: Nailed it.
Also, you made the Dark Tower geek in me feel really good.
fuck! sorry- help- didn’t mean to post…aggg…
now i really want to read the piece that was taken off of theives jargon. blake, post it up on here. it doesnt matter if you dont like it anymore. everyone loves you. you have a book coming out from calamari press (it’s called EVER, everyone). you are king lord of lots of stuff. seriously, please do it.
now i really want to read the piece that was taken off of theives jargon. blake, post it up on here. it doesnt matter if you dont like it anymore. everyone loves you. you have a book coming out from calamari press (it’s called EVER, everyone). you are king lord of lots of stuff. seriously, please do it.
that cola/mentos thing was a sky enema
htmlgiant is making be behind at work.
i experience more drama here than with my girlfriend, and that’s saying alot.
i’m gonna stick my weewee in htmlgiant
that cola/mentos thing was a sky enema
htmlgiant is making be behind at work.
i experience more drama here than with my girlfriend, and that’s saying alot.
i’m gonna stick my weewee in htmlgiant
Ken, word up to your DT geek. The last books are a little wobbly, but the first 5 are pretty much gold.
you can find it google-cached if you really wanted to try and happen to know the right words to search for (say, author name, journal name, and name of story might help (Paula?)).
or, you know, not.
Ken, word up to your DT geek. The last books are a little wobbly, but the first 5 are pretty much gold.
you can find it google-cached if you really wanted to try and happen to know the right words to search for (say, author name, journal name, and name of story might help (Paula?)).
or, you know, not.
i don’t think you should post it.
put it in the ever pre-order or something. make it rare like peeled paul from the garbage pail kids cardset.
emboss a hamster on it and sell it.
do something interesting.
i don’t think you should post it.
put it in the ever pre-order or something. make it rare like peeled paul from the garbage pail kids cardset.
emboss a hamster on it and sell it.
do something interesting.
some one email google and request to have it purged
rare like blond pubes.
jackie, I like that willie smith piece in the newest riot. I’ve liked his stuff for a while, it’s good to know he’s still writing.
I agree with everything re this post, although c) probably took me the longest to realize. I’ve got pieces out there that I’ve come close to emailing the editor and asking if they wouldn’t mind taking them down forever, but I always come around to what you’re saying, writing’s a series of processes over time and writers try things and grow out of things and evolve and it’s all moving, and there’s something nostalgic (?) about having work out there that you would never think of writing now, like a bit of your progression is being documented.
some one email google and request to have it purged
rare like blond pubes.
jackie, I like that willie smith piece in the newest riot. I’ve liked his stuff for a while, it’s good to know he’s still writing.
I agree with everything re this post, although c) probably took me the longest to realize. I’ve got pieces out there that I’ve come close to emailing the editor and asking if they wouldn’t mind taking them down forever, but I always come around to what you’re saying, writing’s a series of processes over time and writers try things and grow out of things and evolve and it’s all moving, and there’s something nostalgic (?) about having work out there that you would never think of writing now, like a bit of your progression is being documented.
i cant find it even if i did want to post it. i think i deleted all the old files that it was in, cause its old, but they are on a disc somewhere. hm
i cant find it even if i did want to post it. i think i deleted all the old files that it was in, cause its old, but they are on a disc somewhere. hm
god those internet archive sites freak me out
god those internet archive sites freak me out
blake,
there are things i wrote from 94 (or maybe 95) still archvied.
Google did not exist.
The internet as you know it did not exist.
crazy.
blake,
there are things i wrote from 94 (or maybe 95) still archvied.
Google did not exist.
The internet as you know it did not exist.
crazy.
i can’t stop thinking about how funny ‘unpublishing’ something is
god bless the internet
i can’t stop thinking about how funny ‘unpublishing’ something is
god bless the internet
darby, ha, funny you mention willie smith, he’s was a featured thieves jargon ‘weekly writer’
darby, ha, funny you mention willie smith, he’s was a featured thieves jargon ‘weekly writer’
hmm i think we should campaign to unpublish thieves jargon.
every one remove their links or something.
it would be awesome if we coordinated that.
klingon death march.
hmm i think we should campaign to unpublish thieves jargon.
every one remove their links or something.
it would be awesome if we coordinated that.
klingon death march.
the ghosts of blake butler:
http://www.thievesjargon.com/workview.php?work=927
http://www.thievesjargon.com/content/authordetail.php?author=434
the ghosts of blake butler:
http://www.thievesjargon.com/workview.php?work=927
http://www.thievesjargon.com/content/authordetail.php?author=434
nice. now they are experiments in true minimalism.
now it is work i am again proud to call my own
nice. now they are experiments in true minimalism.
now it is work i am again proud to call my own
i think thieves jargon is essentially unpublishing themselves just fine jereme, we don’t need to do anything
i think thieves jargon is essentially unpublishing themselves just fine jereme, we don’t need to do anything
jimmy, really? that is funny. I guess I don’t read TJ much. yes, though. I will have to peruse.
jimmy, really? that is funny. I guess I don’t read TJ much. yes, though. I will have to peruse.
justin, i agree. everything after Wizard and Glass was bad.
justin, i agree. everything after Wizard and Glass was bad.
man, he has crazy youtube videos too. willie smith is my new hero.
man, he has crazy youtube videos too. willie smith is my new hero.
i like this post.
i like this post.
fuck.
i dont know matt personally but i will say that thieves jargon publishes some really great shit, and i dont know if id say their readership is “dismal”
i wish i had something smarter to say but i dont. im eating tacos. and when im done im erasing all the dogzplot archives.
i love you pr
me talk pretty one day
fuck.
i dont know matt personally but i will say that thieves jargon publishes some really great shit, and i dont know if id say their readership is “dismal”
i wish i had something smarter to say but i dont. im eating tacos. and when im done im erasing all the dogzplot archives.
i love you pr
me talk pretty one day
I’m actually starting an e-zine that will delete your work after two days and leave an angry message in it’s place. Then you can brag in you next bio “Mr. Quirky Guy’s Adventure was first deleted at the F U Review”
I’m actually starting an e-zine that will delete your work after two days and leave an angry message in it’s place. Then you can brag in you next bio “Mr. Quirky Guy’s Adventure was first deleted at the F U Review”
Yeah, that’s an absurd reaction that sets a pretty shit precedent regardless of what was said after the piece was accepted / published.
Yeah, that’s an absurd reaction that sets a pretty shit precedent regardless of what was said after the piece was accepted / published.
I think if you guys added Carol Novack as a regular contributor your purpose would be clear and complete. Justin Taylor is so cool and smart and funny and loved.
I think if you guys added Carol Novack as a regular contributor your purpose would be clear and complete. Justin Taylor is so cool and smart and funny and loved.
Hey guys, thanks for weighing in.
To reiterate:
I sent an email to Blake asking if he’d like to do a link exchange since Thieves Jargon has, in the past, published him, Jimmy Chen (four times), Sam Pink, Shane Jones, Josh Maday, and Willie Smith. Makes a certain amount of sense.
When he didn’t write back, I made a post on Jimmy Chen’s blog post asking if he knew anything about how I could get an answer.
Blake responded to the blog, saying he didn’t read his email. A BB sycophant said I was being an asshole. Another sycophant suggested I call Blake an asshole. A TJ sycophant said Thieves Jargon is dope.
To show that I was genuine and meant no offense, I offered Blake a free HTML Giant ad on Thieves Jargon. I also made a post about how we’re all on the same team, and I wanted to play along, because for all of us, the championship is the main goal. I also mentioned that it worked fine either way, because neither Thieves Jargon or HTMLG needed the other, and we can be standoffish toward each other to great benefit.
Blake decided that making a blog post about how everything I did was wrong was more important than gaining a small bit of exposure for himself and all of the other HTMLG writers in the Thieves Jargon archives.
Something about this struck me as strange, because one of the ways he said to get a HTMLG link was to “do something.” Offering a free ad seems to be “doing something.”
Blake and I both realized his story wasn’t as good as that of any of the other HTMLG writers who have been published in Thieves Jargon. His story was deleted and everybody is happy.
TJ has received 77 new submissions today, up from an average of about 20.
Everything bad that has been said about TJ this afternoon should be seen as a slam on all of the fine HTMLG writers who have had their work accepted by and showcased in Thieves Jargon.
This has worked out well for everbody, except for Jimmy Chen, Sam Pink, Shane Jones, and Josh Maday, and the readers who won’t find their way to HTMLG because Blake decided to take his ball and go home. To all of them, I’d like to personally apologize. Big egos suck.
Final score:
TJ 77, HTMLG 0.
Hey guys, thanks for weighing in.
To reiterate:
I sent an email to Blake asking if he’d like to do a link exchange since Thieves Jargon has, in the past, published him, Jimmy Chen (four times), Sam Pink, Shane Jones, Josh Maday, and Willie Smith. Makes a certain amount of sense.
When he didn’t write back, I made a post on Jimmy Chen’s blog post asking if he knew anything about how I could get an answer.
Blake responded to the blog, saying he didn’t read his email. A BB sycophant said I was being an asshole. Another sycophant suggested I call Blake an asshole. A TJ sycophant said Thieves Jargon is dope.
To show that I was genuine and meant no offense, I offered Blake a free HTML Giant ad on Thieves Jargon. I also made a post about how we’re all on the same team, and I wanted to play along, because for all of us, the championship is the main goal. I also mentioned that it worked fine either way, because neither Thieves Jargon or HTMLG needed the other, and we can be standoffish toward each other to great benefit.
Blake decided that making a blog post about how everything I did was wrong was more important than gaining a small bit of exposure for himself and all of the other HTMLG writers in the Thieves Jargon archives.
Something about this struck me as strange, because one of the ways he said to get a HTMLG link was to “do something.” Offering a free ad seems to be “doing something.”
Blake and I both realized his story wasn’t as good as that of any of the other HTMLG writers who have been published in Thieves Jargon. His story was deleted and everybody is happy.
TJ has received 77 new submissions today, up from an average of about 20.
Everything bad that has been said about TJ this afternoon should be seen as a slam on all of the fine HTMLG writers who have had their work accepted by and showcased in Thieves Jargon.
This has worked out well for everbody, except for Jimmy Chen, Sam Pink, Shane Jones, and Josh Maday, and the readers who won’t find their way to HTMLG because Blake decided to take his ball and go home. To all of them, I’d like to personally apologize. Big egos suck.
Final score:
TJ 77, HTMLG 0.
Jackie Corley –
You sound like you’re in a confession booth. The word betray is a kissing cousin to admit. No need to go all AA in the language. Let’s have a Realist Pride parade. It’ll be a huge gathering with a buzz like a million jars of bees.
Or not.
Really, though, the only thing with regards to literature that one should be ashamed of is a fondness for James Patterson. Everything else is cool, right? Even here?
Yes, my name is Brad Green and I have a problem with realism.
Jackie Corley –
You sound like you’re in a confession booth. The word betray is a kissing cousin to admit. No need to go all AA in the language. Let’s have a Realist Pride parade. It’ll be a huge gathering with a buzz like a million jars of bees.
Or not.
Really, though, the only thing with regards to literature that one should be ashamed of is a fondness for James Patterson. Everything else is cool, right? Even here?
Yes, my name is Brad Green and I have a problem with realism.
Damn, delete my post. Matt’s is better. I’m gonna hit refresh the next before I click submit comment.
Damn, delete my post. Matt’s is better. I’m gonna hit refresh the next before I click submit comment.
that’s an interesting skew. case closed.
that’s an interesting skew. case closed.
for the record html giant’s email address is not MY email address
we all fuck the same hole
ok, now case closed.
for the record html giant’s email address is not MY email address
we all fuck the same hole
ok, now case closed.
blake:
thank you for dictating when to close the case. where would bloggers be without dictators?
blake:
thank you for dictating when to close the case. where would bloggers be without dictators?
friendship is not sycophantic behavior.
i will say what no one else will.
matt,
fuck you. you are petty. i hope you die in a fire while drowning on your father’s semen.
now the case is slightly ajar.
friendship is not sycophantic behavior.
i will say what no one else will.
matt,
fuck you. you are petty. i hope you die in a fire while drowning on your father’s semen.
now the case is slightly ajar.
Yowza, damn right this case is closed. Whenever I get owned, the first thing I say is CASE CLOSED and I hope they’ll leave me alone. I learned that trick from The American Dissident.
Jereme was trying tickle my crease last night until he realized he had to get back to being two knuckles deep in Blake’s butt.
Blind loyalty won’t get you anywhere in life, but we all do it; I’m throwing elbows for my careless friends every weekend. You haven’t felt justice until you’ve beaten a stranger down for knocking into a pregnant ladyfriend.
Yowza, damn right this case is closed. Whenever I get owned, the first thing I say is CASE CLOSED and I hope they’ll leave me alone. I learned that trick from The American Dissident.
Jereme was trying tickle my crease last night until he realized he had to get back to being two knuckles deep in Blake’s butt.
Blind loyalty won’t get you anywhere in life, but we all do it; I’m throwing elbows for my careless friends every weekend. You haven’t felt justice until you’ve beaten a stranger down for knocking into a pregnant ladyfriend.
If there was a mutual agreement to delete “published” material (and I think the internet deserves the quotation marks since, as evidenced here, the source is easily removed save for waybackmachine), then, well, whatever.
If a “published” piece was deleted without consent I consider that somewhat cowardly and petty – and also undermines confidence.
Post photoshopped images of the guy depicting him engaging in sexual congress with a marmoset on your front page, whatever. Removing content without prior consent in the way you have basically makes you look… really bad.
Appending the record is fine. Deleting it is cowardly and unprofessional.
If there was a mutual agreement to delete “published” material (and I think the internet deserves the quotation marks since, as evidenced here, the source is easily removed save for waybackmachine), then, well, whatever.
If a “published” piece was deleted without consent I consider that somewhat cowardly and petty – and also undermines confidence.
Post photoshopped images of the guy depicting him engaging in sexual congress with a marmoset on your front page, whatever. Removing content without prior consent in the way you have basically makes you look… really bad.
Appending the record is fine. Deleting it is cowardly and unprofessional.
‘getting owned’ brah
‘getting owned’ brah
‘blind loyalty’ is a retarded phrase.
loyal is loyal. do you understand what loyalty means?
regardless you acting like a little baby in a public forum. blake has kept his composure.
i like how you randomly bring up throwing elbows like it matters.
i am scared now. oh no. a writer nerd living in some psuedo reality where he is a bad ass beat up a stranger.
you keep making yourself look worse. i don’t understand how you’ve gone this long without it being noticed before.
is this a joke? is some one spoofing your account? i don’t get it.
‘blind loyalty’ is a retarded phrase.
loyal is loyal. do you understand what loyalty means?
regardless you acting like a little baby in a public forum. blake has kept his composure.
i like how you randomly bring up throwing elbows like it matters.
i am scared now. oh no. a writer nerd living in some psuedo reality where he is a bad ass beat up a stranger.
you keep making yourself look worse. i don’t understand how you’ve gone this long without it being noticed before.
is this a joke? is some one spoofing your account? i don’t get it.
i remember using the term ‘getting owned’ back when it was invented. the hacker community created that term.
long time ago.
owning a person’s computer. word to that.
i remember using the term ‘getting owned’ back when it was invented. the hacker community created that term.
long time ago.
owning a person’s computer. word to that.
I think I just hacked the planet, a little.
I think I just hacked the planet, a little.
j that is a funny fucking reference.
i like you already
j that is a funny fucking reference.
i like you already
man, fuck all of you people.
boringest feud ever
man, fuck all of you people.
boringest feud ever
archives matter, yes.
archives matter, yes.
i’m getting into this discussion kinda late. what’s up w/ james patterson? all his stuff’s been deleted from the internet? it’s about time. that guy really sucks.
i’m getting into this discussion kinda late. what’s up w/ james patterson? all his stuff’s been deleted from the internet? it’s about time. that guy really sucks.
this is stupid i love you
this is stupid i love you
I stopped reading all of the comments about this specific situation, so I don’t know the exact storyline here, but I think the original post by Justin is a good one and hits on a topic I’ve thought for a long time is an important one, which I guess could be summed up as “it’s the art that matters, not the artist.” (Nor the editor, or publisher, etc.) I’m reluctant to comment on this particular scenario, but as a general comment I’ll say that if any editor believes in any piece of art enough to choose or publish it, then that piece of art should remain, no matter what the artist may or may not do or say, and certainly no matter what goes on personally between the editor and artist.
If Michael Jackson has indeed abused children, it’s dispicable, but “Don’t Stop til You Get Enough” doesn’t stop being a good song. Norman Mailer was a misogynist who did some awful things, but we’re all better for what he contributed to literature. It’s the art that matters. The artist is irrelevant except sometimes for the purpose of analyzing something he or she created, or putting it in historical context, or something like that. (Nor does it matter what the artist thinks of something he or she has created.)
I haven’t heard of any fish writing good poems recently, which means that pretty much we all have to deal with the fact that human beings are going to be writing them, and human beings can be vile creatures sometimes. None of us is nearly as benign as a minnow. So if I publish work by a poet who I then find out regularly drowns small cuddly animals, I’ll report that poet to the authorities, donate more money to ASPCA and PETA, and maybe let the air out of his or her tires, but the poem stays.
(And I don’t know Blake Butler, but I didn’t read that he’s been drowning small cuddly animals.)
I stopped reading all of the comments about this specific situation, so I don’t know the exact storyline here, but I think the original post by Justin is a good one and hits on a topic I’ve thought for a long time is an important one, which I guess could be summed up as “it’s the art that matters, not the artist.” (Nor the editor, or publisher, etc.) I’m reluctant to comment on this particular scenario, but as a general comment I’ll say that if any editor believes in any piece of art enough to choose or publish it, then that piece of art should remain, no matter what the artist may or may not do or say, and certainly no matter what goes on personally between the editor and artist.
If Michael Jackson has indeed abused children, it’s dispicable, but “Don’t Stop til You Get Enough” doesn’t stop being a good song. Norman Mailer was a misogynist who did some awful things, but we’re all better for what he contributed to literature. It’s the art that matters. The artist is irrelevant except sometimes for the purpose of analyzing something he or she created, or putting it in historical context, or something like that. (Nor does it matter what the artist thinks of something he or she has created.)
I haven’t heard of any fish writing good poems recently, which means that pretty much we all have to deal with the fact that human beings are going to be writing them, and human beings can be vile creatures sometimes. None of us is nearly as benign as a minnow. So if I publish work by a poet who I then find out regularly drowns small cuddly animals, I’ll report that poet to the authorities, donate more money to ASPCA and PETA, and maybe let the air out of his or her tires, but the poem stays.
(And I don’t know Blake Butler, but I didn’t read that he’s been drowning small cuddly animals.)
this is stupid. so childish, so petty, so makes me hate the internet poetry scene. i hate all of yous guys, and i don’t know one of ya.
this is stupid. so childish, so petty, so makes me hate the internet poetry scene. i hate all of yous guys, and i don’t know one of ya.
i wanna type something to know that i exist.
i wanna type something to know that i exist.
sara:
dont stop til you get enough – was never a good song.
avi:
there is nothing more stupid, childish, or petty than hate. i love you.
sara:
dont stop til you get enough – was never a good song.
avi:
there is nothing more stupid, childish, or petty than hate. i love you.
Barry:
okay, since you put it that way, I love you too…
Barry:
okay, since you put it that way, I love you too…
internet literature….way to go, nothing like infighting between an infinite number of dipshits who are amazingly talented.
internet literature….way to go, nothing like infighting between an infinite number of dipshits who are amazingly talented.
Hey Brahs, I just deleted all over my archives. DiGang: Elbow my ball bag.
Cheers/Best/Best Regards,
FN
Hey Brahs, I just deleted all over my archives. DiGang: Elbow my ball bag.
Cheers/Best/Best Regards,
FN