March 14th, 2009 / 3:02 pm
Random

Terms I am tired of Hearing

derfetterusse__poetHaving been around writers more than usual lately, I’ve found myself disgruntled with some of the jargon and stylizing that comes up: not necessarily as a matter of pretension, but more as habits.

I’m the kind of guy that can’t stand to sit in a movie next to the dude eating popcorn with his mouth open. Gum chewing really nicks my nerves.

In that mind, here are 4 writing-related speech manners that seem all over the place and really crank my crank.

1. ‘Work’: Are you familiar with his work? I love his work. Do you know his work? What’s his work like? I don’t know when this started bothering me so much, but all of a sudden every time I hear someone say it in relation to a person’s writing output, I want to stab with forks. Work? How about, um, books? Or: writing. Work? All this formality of speech = foppish gross. It’s not to say that writing isn’t work: of course it is. But do you hear the construction worker pointing at a building saying, “Are you familiar with my work?” No. He hawks a loog and eats Ruffles. Let’s do that more instead.

2. ‘Poet’: I have gotten to a point where if I hear the word ‘poet’ again in reference to writers of poetry, I think I don’t think I’ll be able to continue on in a conversation. The term ‘poet,’ to me, is unnecessary: just say ‘writer’ or ‘dude.’ Like Depeche Mode said: People are people. Unless you’re not a person: which, I’ve met a few well-to-do-ish ‘poets’ who didn’t seem human at all. ‘Writer’ is fine enough, no? If you must?

3. Related here: ‘Fiction or poetry?’: When did these two genre relations become so heavily entrenched as polar points, a or b? Are you a doughnut or ice cream? Dude, I don’t know, I’m making words. On the same token as ‘People are people’ is ‘Words are words.’ Look at it this way: we’re all lying, and we’re all arranging language. So the either/or question that seems to come up left and right: can we just shush?

4. ‘Chaps’: Oh god, when people say ‘chaps’ for ‘chapbooks,’ it’s akin to when dudes say ‘ship it’ when they win a pot in poker. It makes the hair on my skin spit bacon; I just don’t know what I am going to do. Particularly awful in this usage is ‘my chap’ as in ‘my chap is coming out from Bread’s Yearling Press this summer’. Please, stick to chapbook, for my sanity. Or if you must: pamphlet, or yardling.

Ok, I’m done. My bad.

Can’t wait for the ‘you said you hate it so now we say it to you more often’ jokes to kick in. :)

Tags: ,

254 Comments

  1. john sakkis

      personal peeve is the over/misuse of the word “curate”…

      everybody’s a fucking curator now a days…

      i curate a reading series. i curate a talk series. i curate a baseball game. i curate an anthology. i curate a press. i curate my job. i curate a blog. blah…

  2. john sakkis

      or is that just a bay area thing?

  3. john sakkis

      personal peeve is the over/misuse of the word “curate”…

      everybody’s a fucking curator now a days…

      i curate a reading series. i curate a talk series. i curate a baseball game. i curate an anthology. i curate a press. i curate my job. i curate a blog. blah…

  4. john sakkis

      or is that just a bay area thing?

  5. james yeh

      i think i’m probably guilty of saying “work” sometimes

      “writings” seems not so good too, though

      “books” is good.

      but what if they don’t have any books? “have you read any of his stories?” that is ok, i think too.

      i like to say “stuff” too, sometimes.

      i don’t like it when people say, instead of stories, “fictions”. that’s the worst, i think. borges is the only one who’s excused.

  6. james yeh

      i think i’m probably guilty of saying “work” sometimes

      “writings” seems not so good too, though

      “books” is good.

      but what if they don’t have any books? “have you read any of his stories?” that is ok, i think too.

      i like to say “stuff” too, sometimes.

      i don’t like it when people say, instead of stories, “fictions”. that’s the worst, i think. borges is the only one who’s excused.

  7. Blake Butler

      stuff rules

  8. Blake Butler

      i know what you mean john.

      yuck

  9. Blake Butler

      stuff rules

  10. Blake Butler

      i know what you mean john.

      yuck

  11. Chelsea Martin

      i like the term ‘work’
      and i like the term ‘poet’ because i like saying “i’m a poet” and then whipping the hair out of my face dramatically
      ‘poet’ is a sassy word i like it

  12. Chelsea Martin

      i like the term ‘work’
      and i like the term ‘poet’ because i like saying “i’m a poet” and then whipping the hair out of my face dramatically
      ‘poet’ is a sassy word i like it

  13. pr

      This is a Mean Monday post on Saturday! I like that.

      I have never met a person who said “I am a poet”. But as we all know, I don’t leave my house very much.

      Agreed with James that fictions (borges can do whatever he wants) or writings would make my eye twitch. Just for a second though and then I’d go, oh, he/she is cute! Unless they were an asshole and I’d think “that person is an asshole.”

      I liked hearing about Blake’s skin spitting bacon or whaver he wrote -that made me happy.

      I have never heard someone refer to his/her “chaps”. Ever. But if did hear it, I would assume they like to ride electronic bulls. Also, I once went to Madison Square Garden and watched a bullriding contest. Shit rocked. DId you know the number one bullrider is Brazilian? Hot. They are all little dudes though, like horse jockeys.

      I probably say “work” all the time to myself at home. But now that I know Blake doesn’t like it I won’t say it around him cause I’m generally a pleaser.

  14. JW Veldhoen

      Fuck yes on all four counts. In ‘Difference and Repetition: On Guy Debord’s Films’ Georgio Agamben wonders aloud “if it isn’t necessary today, whenever one seeks to analyze what is called work – literary, cinematographic, or otherwise – to call into question its very status as work. Rather than inquiring into the work as such, I think we should ask about the relation between what could be done and what actually was done.”

      Sorry, pretentious to quote too, but I read this essay two-weeks ago and it has stuck with me. Calling work work with Debord is really stupid, but in most cases it is also, I agree. The people I care to read, some of the people who make art who I know, they tend to describe it as something other than 9 to 5, but as a 24hr compulsion, and as compensation in itself. I like the word poet too, and I don’t think one should shy from it all the time, but classically speaking, it is the highest form on honor, and as such, shouldn’t be used lightly.

  15. JW Veldhoen

      Fuck yes on all four counts. In ‘Difference and Repetition: On Guy Debord’s Films’ Georgio Agamben wonders aloud “if it isn’t necessary today, whenever one seeks to analyze what is called work – literary, cinematographic, or otherwise – to call into question its very status as work. Rather than inquiring into the work as such, I think we should ask about the relation between what could be done and what actually was done.”

      Sorry, pretentious to quote too, but I read this essay two-weeks ago and it has stuck with me. Calling work work with Debord is really stupid, but in most cases it is also, I agree. The people I care to read, some of the people who make art who I know, they tend to describe it as something other than 9 to 5, but as a 24hr compulsion, and as compensation in itself. I like the word poet too, and I don’t think one should shy from it all the time, but classically speaking, it is the highest form on honor, and as such, shouldn’t be used lightly.

  16. JW Veldhoen

      Oh, and chaps? Really? Like pr said, you mean like, buttless?

  17. JW Veldhoen

      Oh, and chaps? Really? Like pr said, you mean like, buttless?

  18. Rauan Klassnik

      i hear ya Blake, i hear ya…. and i’m guilty as sin…. sin, sin, sin…. can you hear Robbie Williams singing?…. more sins…. me liking that song, and me bringing it up….sin, sin, sin

      but, it’s hard not to fall into those types of words and phrases…
      because,
      as we all know the brain “loves automation.” it’s addicted to it.

      and, blah, blah, blah, the worst word of all is
      “levity”
      that one fucking sends me off into orbit every time.
      of course, though, it’s easy to misfire it…..

  19. Rauan Klassnik

      i hear ya Blake, i hear ya…. and i’m guilty as sin…. sin, sin, sin…. can you hear Robbie Williams singing?…. more sins…. me liking that song, and me bringing it up….sin, sin, sin

      but, it’s hard not to fall into those types of words and phrases…
      because,
      as we all know the brain “loves automation.” it’s addicted to it.

      and, blah, blah, blah, the worst word of all is
      “levity”
      that one fucking sends me off into orbit every time.
      of course, though, it’s easy to misfire it…..

  20. pr

      Dear Blake Butler, editor of Lamination Colony,
      I am a poet. I think you would like my work so I am incuding one of my chaps for you to read. I ONLY write fiction and it is the opposite of poetry. Thanks for considering my work.
      Best,
      Poet

      Also, PBR does NOT only refer to the beer. It refers to Professional Bull Riders. I bought the T-shirt there and it says PBR on it, which are my initials! I also watched men get thrown off of bulls and trampled. The rodeo clown was fantatic. He did the best Beyonce imitation that I have EVER seen!!! I like South American men, even if they are shorter than me and I frighten them with my East German discus thrower vibe- those hot Brazilian bull riders man!!! But why are there no Argentines? You would think there would be.

  21. pr

      how about “thingies”? I like thingies.

  22. darby

      1. I don’t agree, I like the word work. Work wood work word work; 2. I kind of don’t agree but I’ve never heard anyone refer to themselves as poet. I think ‘poet’ should be genderly split into ‘poetors’ and ‘poetesses’ 3. I agree, everything should just be ‘texts’; 4. I don’t know, I haven’t heard it enough to bother me but I might and it might someday.

      I like ‘fictions’ more than ‘stories’ whoever said that. There’s something kind of exotic about ‘fictions.’ Maybe because I’ve never heard it said. These are simply my fictions. Hello, sir, would you care to sample some fictions? Plus I hate stories. Stories. Blegh.

      ‘flash’ has to go though, I think.

  23. darby

      1. I don’t agree, I like the word work. Work wood work word work; 2. I kind of don’t agree but I’ve never heard anyone refer to themselves as poet. I think ‘poet’ should be genderly split into ‘poetors’ and ‘poetesses’ 3. I agree, everything should just be ‘texts’; 4. I don’t know, I haven’t heard it enough to bother me but I might and it might someday.

      I like ‘fictions’ more than ‘stories’ whoever said that. There’s something kind of exotic about ‘fictions.’ Maybe because I’ve never heard it said. These are simply my fictions. Hello, sir, would you care to sample some fictions? Plus I hate stories. Stories. Blegh.

      ‘flash’ has to go though, I think.

  24. Peter Markus

      I like the picture of this girl. Or is it of a boy? Or should I say photo? Maybe I shouldn’t say at all.

  25. Peter Markus

      I like the picture of this girl. Or is it of a boy? Or should I say photo? Maybe I shouldn’t say at all.

  26. Brian Allen Carr

      i think it’s okay to hold the belief that there is a distinction between poetry and fiction, and as such i think it’s okay to identify your writing style as either being poetry or fiction. i also think it’s okay to refer to your writing as work, so long as the money you make off writing pays all of your bills. it is never okay to use the term chaps, unless it’s 1927 and you’re refferring to your tennis buddies.

  27. Brian Allen Carr

      i think it’s okay to hold the belief that there is a distinction between poetry and fiction, and as such i think it’s okay to identify your writing style as either being poetry or fiction. i also think it’s okay to refer to your writing as work, so long as the money you make off writing pays all of your bills. it is never okay to use the term chaps, unless it’s 1927 and you’re refferring to your tennis buddies.

  28. pr

      What about prose? and verse? What about Francine Prose? I bet she doesn’t write poetry.

  29. Chelsea Martin

      words suck.
      i’m mad at words.
      “thanks for nothin, assholes.”

  30. Chelsea Martin

      words suck.
      i’m mad at words.
      “thanks for nothin, assholes.”

  31. Lee

      Can we get rid of the term “flash” and substitute something more accurate instead even if it’s a bit more ungainly, like “fragment of what might have been a longer and more fulfilling bit of writing if the writer were more dedicated to seeing an idea through to its completion/fulfillment instead of being like seemingly way more interested in sending out submissions that suggest 99% more than they say (ie, bullshit) so these submissions can then be posted on as many websites as possible, which the writers then list in silly cover letters accompanying a daily slew of simultaneous submissions, thinking such a list of publishing credits on wacky-named obscure websites will impress editors of websites of other wacky-named obscure websites who thereby perpetuate the whole dealio, and then one day the writers discover that the URLS of most of those wachy-named obscure websites now direct to loan-consolidation services or some sort of intriguing porn as those websites have given up the online ghost”?!

  32. Lee

      Can we get rid of the term “flash” and substitute something more accurate instead even if it’s a bit more ungainly, like “fragment of what might have been a longer and more fulfilling bit of writing if the writer were more dedicated to seeing an idea through to its completion/fulfillment instead of being like seemingly way more interested in sending out submissions that suggest 99% more than they say (ie, bullshit) so these submissions can then be posted on as many websites as possible, which the writers then list in silly cover letters accompanying a daily slew of simultaneous submissions, thinking such a list of publishing credits on wacky-named obscure websites will impress editors of websites of other wacky-named obscure websites who thereby perpetuate the whole dealio, and then one day the writers discover that the URLS of most of those wachy-named obscure websites now direct to loan-consolidation services or some sort of intriguing porn as those websites have given up the online ghost”?!

  33. Blake Butler

      haha. i am def guilty too. i think everyone is.
      misfiring on all fronts

  34. Blake Butler

      haha. i am def guilty too. i think everyone is.
      misfiring on all fronts

  35. Blake Butler

      ooh flash is a great one to get rid of. yes please.

  36. Blake Butler

      best comment ever

  37. Blake Butler

      ooh flash is a great one to get rid of. yes please.

  38. Blake Butler

      best comment ever

  39. pr

      ouch.

  40. darby

      haha

  41. darby

      haha

  42. Lee

      What about “creative non-fiction” and/or “lyrical essay”? Can we jettison those terms, too, in favor of “real stories” (or, for Darby, “True Texts”) and/or “pretentious-ass essays.” I always try my best to confuse non-fiction with fiction — there’s really not much of a difference if either is done well — but I don’t really have a problem with differentiating between “stories” and “poems.” Stories tend to be longer, maybe offer some dialogue, paragraphs, flowing prose etc, maybe a few human-type character people, and tend to make more sense on micro and macro levels than poems, which tend to elusively/associatively flit/fuck witcha more ’cause they’re usually always so deeply into language etc, what with their fancy similes and all (my love is like a ____”).

  43. Lee

      What about “creative non-fiction” and/or “lyrical essay”? Can we jettison those terms, too, in favor of “real stories” (or, for Darby, “True Texts”) and/or “pretentious-ass essays.” I always try my best to confuse non-fiction with fiction — there’s really not much of a difference if either is done well — but I don’t really have a problem with differentiating between “stories” and “poems.” Stories tend to be longer, maybe offer some dialogue, paragraphs, flowing prose etc, maybe a few human-type character people, and tend to make more sense on micro and macro levels than poems, which tend to elusively/associatively flit/fuck witcha more ’cause they’re usually always so deeply into language etc, what with their fancy similes and all (my love is like a ____”).

  44. graham

      go with fizzles. but if you say that people will think it’s some snoop dogg early 2000 reference instead of beckett.

  45. graham

      go with fizzles. but if you say that people will think it’s some snoop dogg early 2000 reference instead of beckett.

  46. pr

      just got your comment with the killian hookepress book! thanks so much John!

  47. drew

      i know people that refer to themselves as ‘poets’

      i hate that term. i think it’s embarrassing.

      peter markus’s comment above: awesome.

  48. drew

      i know people that refer to themselves as ‘poets’

      i hate that term. i think it’s embarrassing.

      peter markus’s comment above: awesome.

  49. Blake Butler

      lee klein 4 prez

  50. Blake Butler

      lee klein 4 prez

  51. Blake Butler

      peter always wins

  52. Blake Butler

      peter always wins

  53. An Unreliable Witness

      I like the terms ‘poet’ and ‘work’, but I also favouring subverting them by omitting letters. I prefer to call myself a ‘pet’ and mention how ‘I love your wok’.

  54. An Unreliable Witness

      I like the terms ‘poet’ and ‘work’, but I also favouring subverting them by omitting letters. I prefer to call myself a ‘pet’ and mention how ‘I love your wok’.

  55. Ken Baumann

      Yes.

  56. Ken Baumann

      Yes.

  57. Ken Baumann

      I think in most (if not all cases) it’s not the the word, it’s the delivery. I’m fine with ‘work’; the definition of work is clean, understandable & and applies perfectly, but when someone says anything with a smellable sense of entitlement/importance, it will all become off-putting and offensive.

      Although I do agree on Fiction and Poetry. It’s polarizing.

  58. Ken Baumann

      I think in most (if not all cases) it’s not the the word, it’s the delivery. I’m fine with ‘work’; the definition of work is clean, understandable & and applies perfectly, but when someone says anything with a smellable sense of entitlement/importance, it will all become off-putting and offensive.

      Although I do agree on Fiction and Poetry. It’s polarizing.

  59. cari

      Lee, I adore you.

  60. cari

      Lee, I adore you.

  61. sasha

      i like work. i feel like i work at this. it feels like work. i feel like calling it work is different than calling it art or artwork or an artform or. shit. fuck. i don’t know. it has always felt like work and like something you work at and with and on. i am kind of uncomfortable with the term poet. um. i don’t know.

  62. ben

      it seems like ‘work’ is maybe a way of getting around the poetry/fiction divide so you don’t have to call things ‘poems’ or ‘stories’ but can just say ‘work’ to encompass a range of different things. but i guess ‘stuff’ also works for that.

      my other idea about the use of the word ‘work’ is an etymological guess: do you think that it comes from the visual arts and, as a shortened version of ‘artwork’, has gained currency because it implicitly refers to the status of a piece of writing as object? i think maybe this has connection to my above point and to your point about writing being writing/words being words

  63. sasha

      i like work. i feel like i work at this. it feels like work. i feel like calling it work is different than calling it art or artwork or an artform or. shit. fuck. i don’t know. it has always felt like work and like something you work at and with and on. i am kind of uncomfortable with the term poet. um. i don’t know.

  64. ben

      it seems like ‘work’ is maybe a way of getting around the poetry/fiction divide so you don’t have to call things ‘poems’ or ‘stories’ but can just say ‘work’ to encompass a range of different things. but i guess ‘stuff’ also works for that.

      my other idea about the use of the word ‘work’ is an etymological guess: do you think that it comes from the visual arts and, as a shortened version of ‘artwork’, has gained currency because it implicitly refers to the status of a piece of writing as object? i think maybe this has connection to my above point and to your point about writing being writing/words being words

  65. carl

      pet peeve A#1

      when people use the word “killer” as an adjective.

      or pretty much any review of a noise record. as in “man, this shit is so killer it will melt your face!”

  66. carl

      pet peeve A#1

      when people use the word “killer” as an adjective.

      or pretty much any review of a noise record. as in “man, this shit is so killer it will melt your face!”

  67. Matt Cozart

      Robert Coover is also excused. Actually, I think you could make an argument that a ‘fiction’ is not necessarily the same thing as a ‘story’.

  68. Matt Cozart

      Robert Coover is also excused. Actually, I think you could make an argument that a ‘fiction’ is not necessarily the same thing as a ‘story’.

  69. Matt Cozart

      I like ‘poet’. I’m okay with it anyway. It’s no big deal. I used to be embarrassed about it, but then I realized the only reason I was embarrassed about it was because other people–non-poets, usually–are embarrassed by it and so I felt I should be too. But then I was like, fuck it, it’s no big deal. If you write poetry, you’re a poet. If you drive race cars, you’re a race car driver. It doesn’t mean you’re a *good* race car driver. You could be really awful, coming in last in every race because you crash and almost die each time. But you’re still a driver.

  70. Matt Cozart

      I like ‘poet’. I’m okay with it anyway. It’s no big deal. I used to be embarrassed about it, but then I realized the only reason I was embarrassed about it was because other people–non-poets, usually–are embarrassed by it and so I felt I should be too. But then I was like, fuck it, it’s no big deal. If you write poetry, you’re a poet. If you drive race cars, you’re a race car driver. It doesn’t mean you’re a *good* race car driver. You could be really awful, coming in last in every race because you crash and almost die each time. But you’re still a driver.

  71. Max

      I’m a poet. I know it. Hope I don’t blow it.

  72. Max

      I’m a poet. I know it. Hope I don’t blow it.

  73. Max

      I get upset by pretty much all of what you mention – just people taking on unnecessary airs, hoping to make other people think they are smart.

      That being said, I also get mad at myself for getting mad. I feel like by getting caught up in a small thing I’m being just as snooty as they are. I’m making language into a huge deal. I mean, imagine your construction worker reading this post. He’d think we were all pretentious as hell. On second thought, he’d probably not waste his time worrying enough to get to that kind of conclusion.

  74. Max

      I get upset by pretty much all of what you mention – just people taking on unnecessary airs, hoping to make other people think they are smart.

      That being said, I also get mad at myself for getting mad. I feel like by getting caught up in a small thing I’m being just as snooty as they are. I’m making language into a huge deal. I mean, imagine your construction worker reading this post. He’d think we were all pretentious as hell. On second thought, he’d probably not waste his time worrying enough to get to that kind of conclusion.

  75. Blake Butler

      i like your style

  76. Blake Butler

      i like your style

  77. JW Veldhoen

      I think Rauan makes light, which is amazing. I generally hate it when people talk about holocausts, Jesus, Republicans, money, cars, babies (and family in general), the future, their dreams, sports, clothes, apartments, pets, costs, TV, video games, music. I guess Blake’s dislikes were semantic only, not really broadly topical. It would be easy to go on and on. I hate everything these days.

      Here’s another quote:

      “Human beings and what they want and do, seemed to me, when I thought of it, like gray, motionless figures; but in the holy solitude all around me everything was light and color.”

      I’m saying fuck the construction worker, he’s a boring piece of shit.

  78. JW Veldhoen

      I think Rauan makes light, which is amazing. I generally hate it when people talk about holocausts, Jesus, Republicans, money, cars, babies (and family in general), the future, their dreams, sports, clothes, apartments, pets, costs, TV, video games, music. I guess Blake’s dislikes were semantic only, not really broadly topical. It would be easy to go on and on. I hate everything these days.

      Here’s another quote:

      “Human beings and what they want and do, seemed to me, when I thought of it, like gray, motionless figures; but in the holy solitude all around me everything was light and color.”

      I’m saying fuck the construction worker, he’s a boring piece of shit.

  79. jereme

      this entire communication is as meaningful as dildo tag.

      it is humorous though.

      i think people should be confident themselves and say what they want. if that makes people mad who gives a flying fuck.

      you can’t keep every one happy.

      i think the only peeve that bothers me these days is the use of the term ‘snarky’ because it’s one of those bullshit pop hipster made up jargon words.

      every time i see it here i want to slam my dick in a drawer.

  80. jereme

      this entire communication is as meaningful as dildo tag.

      it is humorous though.

      i think people should be confident themselves and say what they want. if that makes people mad who gives a flying fuck.

      you can’t keep every one happy.

      i think the only peeve that bothers me these days is the use of the term ‘snarky’ because it’s one of those bullshit pop hipster made up jargon words.

      every time i see it here i want to slam my dick in a drawer.

  81. jereme

      i think it is funny you say ‘fuck the construction worker he is a piece of shit’

      he is a creator. he is a person. a writer is no better than him.

      what the fuck is wrong with you people.

      you act like you are something special.

      i don’t get it.

  82. jereme

      i think it is funny you say ‘fuck the construction worker he is a piece of shit’

      he is a creator. he is a person. a writer is no better than him.

      what the fuck is wrong with you people.

      you act like you are something special.

      i don’t get it.

  83. gena

      this thread makes me laugh at everyone

  84. gena

      this thread makes me laugh at everyone

  85. Blake Butler

      i think of you, jereme and gena, like bonnie and clyde now, though i’m not sure where you’re going

  86. Blake Butler

      i like construction workers, they do more than me, easy

  87. Blake Butler

      i think of you, jereme and gena, like bonnie and clyde now, though i’m not sure where you’re going

  88. Blake Butler

      i like construction workers, they do more than me, easy

  89. gena

      which one am i? bonnie or clyde?

  90. gena

      which one am i? bonnie or clyde?

  91. jereme

      well i’m going to the same place clyde went. and the same place you will go and the same place all the super self important people will go.

      if you don’t find this whole discussion silly, well, i don’t know

      construction worker part is right.

      this is all fucking silly.

      come on.

  92. jereme

      well i’m going to the same place clyde went. and the same place you will go and the same place all the super self important people will go.

      if you don’t find this whole discussion silly, well, i don’t know

      construction worker part is right.

      this is all fucking silly.

      come on.

  93. Blake Butler

      of course its silly ya silly, that’s the point :P

  94. Blake Butler

      of course its silly ya silly, that’s the point :P

  95. jereme

      yeah i know

  96. jereme

      yeah i know

  97. gena

      which is why i laughed!

  98. gena

      which is why i laughed!

  99. jereme

      you are not grouped in the generalization of ‘you people’

      you never have been

      spread the word

  100. jereme

      you are not grouped in the generalization of ‘you people’

      you never have been

      spread the word

  101. jereme

      we should keep this up all night

      blake vs bonnie and clyde

      or something but less mean

  102. jereme

      we should keep this up all night

      blake vs bonnie and clyde

      or something but less mean

  103. james yeh

      yeah, the way i am most likely to think of writing is not as a job, or “work”, but as an addiction. there’s an essay somewhere (i forget where — maybe n+1?) about bolano where they talk about how, in bolano’s world, literature is a dirty addiction, like smoking. though i don’t smoke, i feel similarly about writing. it’s a compulsion, something that makes me feel unhealthy when i do it, but even more unhealthy when i don’t.

  104. james yeh

      yeah, the way i am most likely to think of writing is not as a job, or “work”, but as an addiction. there’s an essay somewhere (i forget where — maybe n+1?) about bolano where they talk about how, in bolano’s world, literature is a dirty addiction, like smoking. though i don’t smoke, i feel similarly about writing. it’s a compulsion, something that makes me feel unhealthy when i do it, but even more unhealthy when i don’t.

  105. james yeh

      listen to someone say ‘fictions’. listen to someone say ‘stories’. the person who says ‘fictions’ is probably an ass. the person who says stories is only maybe one.

      ‘inadequacies’ is a decent one, i think. hello sir, would you care to sample some inadequacies? what about some failures? those i am willing to offer you as well.

  106. james yeh

      listen to someone say ‘fictions’. listen to someone say ‘stories’. the person who says ‘fictions’ is probably an ass. the person who says stories is only maybe one.

      ‘inadequacies’ is a decent one, i think. hello sir, would you care to sample some inadequacies? what about some failures? those i am willing to offer you as well.

  107. mr

      Try this one on: Discovery Curator

  108. mr

      Try this one on: Discovery Curator

  109. mr

      aHAhaHA! This made my insomnia.

  110. mr

      aHAhaHA! This made my insomnia.

  111. mr

      No, YOU’RE fucking silly.

      That’s a phrase I hate but use all the time.
      Like cool beans. I use cool beans too much too.
      Fuggit.

  112. mr

      No, YOU’RE fucking silly.

      That’s a phrase I hate but use all the time.
      Like cool beans. I use cool beans too much too.
      Fuggit.

  113. Joseph Young

      It’s really tempting to psychoanalyze you, Blake. Don’t loathe yourself, I want to say. But I’d just be projecting. Pet peeves are my pet peeve. They chap(s) my ass.

  114. Joseph Young

      It’s really tempting to psychoanalyze you, Blake. Don’t loathe yourself, I want to say. But I’d just be projecting. Pet peeves are my pet peeve. They chap(s) my ass.

  115. Blake Butler

      hehe, nice

  116. Blake Butler

      hehe, nice

  117. barry

      LEE KLEIN:

      If you are good enough at what you do you don’t need more than 200 words. Equating word count with the quality of a story is just stupid. I can’t tell you the number of stories I’ve read in “journals with very respectable names and reputations” as opposed to “wacky-named obscure websites” that are absolutely horrible, that take 2000 words to tell a story that should have only taken 200. There’s nothing wrong with suggestion, there’s nothing wrong with displaying one extremely intense scene, one moment, one glimpse. If the problem is the lack of quality flash fiction, I can assure you there is just as much, and actually a lot more, shitty longer fiction floating around. Writers like Jayne Anne Phillips and William Faulkner and others of their caliber have been writing mind numbing, superior flash fiction for a very long time. Nobody on this site or Eyeshot for that matter (I’m not attempting to slight Eyeshot, I like it very much) have written anything close to that good, couldn’t carry their balls in a paper sack (I ripped that from Bukowski).

      As far as the rest of what you said “so these submissions can then be posted on as many websites as possible, which the writers then list in silly cover letters accompanying a daily slew of simultaneous submissions, thinking such a list of publishing credits on wacky-named obscure websites will impress editors of websites of other wacky-named obscure websites who thereby perpetuate the whole dealio” is equally as true for long fiction, essays, non-fiction, and poetry alike. To pretend it just goes on with flash writers or that it goes on more frequently is just stupid.

  118. barry

      LEE KLEIN:

      If you are good enough at what you do you don’t need more than 200 words. Equating word count with the quality of a story is just stupid. I can’t tell you the number of stories I’ve read in “journals with very respectable names and reputations” as opposed to “wacky-named obscure websites” that are absolutely horrible, that take 2000 words to tell a story that should have only taken 200. There’s nothing wrong with suggestion, there’s nothing wrong with displaying one extremely intense scene, one moment, one glimpse. If the problem is the lack of quality flash fiction, I can assure you there is just as much, and actually a lot more, shitty longer fiction floating around. Writers like Jayne Anne Phillips and William Faulkner and others of their caliber have been writing mind numbing, superior flash fiction for a very long time. Nobody on this site or Eyeshot for that matter (I’m not attempting to slight Eyeshot, I like it very much) have written anything close to that good, couldn’t carry their balls in a paper sack (I ripped that from Bukowski).

      As far as the rest of what you said “so these submissions can then be posted on as many websites as possible, which the writers then list in silly cover letters accompanying a daily slew of simultaneous submissions, thinking such a list of publishing credits on wacky-named obscure websites will impress editors of websites of other wacky-named obscure websites who thereby perpetuate the whole dealio” is equally as true for long fiction, essays, non-fiction, and poetry alike. To pretend it just goes on with flash writers or that it goes on more frequently is just stupid.

  119. Matt Cozart

      ‘Snark’ originated in the 19th century. Maybe it is overused though.

  120. Matt Cozart

      ‘Snark’ originated in the 19th century. Maybe it is overused though.

  121. Nathan Tyree

      Lee thinks that he is Andrei Codrescu (he isn’t) and that Eyeshot is Exquisite Corpse (it isn’t).

  122. Nathan Tyree

      Lee thinks that he is Andrei Codrescu (he isn’t) and that Eyeshot is Exquisite Corpse (it isn’t).

  123. blake

      thank god.

  124. blake

      thank god.

  125. Nathan (Nate) Tyree

      Nice. By the by, I didn’t mean to slight Eyeshot above, just to state the obvious.

  126. Nathan (Nate) Tyree

      Nice. By the by, I didn’t mean to slight Eyeshot above, just to state the obvious.

  127. kathryn regina

      haha hawks a loog and eats ruffles.

      i do that already.

  128. kathryn regina

      haha hawks a loog and eats ruffles.

      i do that already.

  129. graham

      here’s the thing about jayne anne phillips. god black tickets and fast lanes was so good and yet is anybody else creeped out by how long her hair is getting? i saw that photo of her somewhere and her shit was long, long like religious cult or cat-lady length. anyway i’m just talking shit to talk shit cuz i couldn’t hold her nuts in my manpurse or something.

  130. graham

      here’s the thing about jayne anne phillips. god black tickets and fast lanes was so good and yet is anybody else creeped out by how long her hair is getting? i saw that photo of her somewhere and her shit was long, long like religious cult or cat-lady length. anyway i’m just talking shit to talk shit cuz i couldn’t hold her nuts in my manpurse or something.

  131. Diana

      “Release.” Books are published, no? But now everyone says they’re being “released.” Like albums? Too-small fish? Hounds?

      RELEASE THE CHAPS.

  132. Diana

      “Release.” Books are published, no? But now everyone says they’re being “released.” Like albums? Too-small fish? Hounds?

      RELEASE THE CHAPS.

  133. Lee

      To take what I wrote as my totally earnest opinion is “just stupid.” Kisses.

  134. Lee

      To take what I wrote as my totally earnest opinion is “just stupid.” Kisses.

  135. Lee

      The obvious? I haven’t looked at Exiquisite Corpse since 2000 or so, and now it looks like it wants to be the New York TImes or Salon or something. I don’t think the world needs another Romanian writer with a vampire surname in NOLA who frequently appears on NPR, so I’ll just take down Eyeshot and also stop editing/writing. Thanks for the tip!

  136. Lee

      The obvious? I haven’t looked at Exiquisite Corpse since 2000 or so, and now it looks like it wants to be the New York TImes or Salon or something. I don’t think the world needs another Romanian writer with a vampire surname in NOLA who frequently appears on NPR, so I’ll just take down Eyeshot and also stop editing/writing. Thanks for the tip!

  137. barry

      it didnt sound ernest. it sounded ridiculous and petty.

      keep the kisses. they leave a shitty taste

  138. barry

      it didnt sound ernest. it sounded ridiculous and petty.

      keep the kisses. they leave a shitty taste

  139. Nathan (Nate) Tyree

      Jesus, don’t be touchy. I was mostly just jabbing at you because you’re tough, and you like to jab (I’ve gotten rejection letters from you man, I know you can jab). Your points about “flash” (a term I hate, but a form I love) seemed a bit, well, dumb. Based on what (little) I know of you, you couldn’t really mean it.

      The point about EC now is good. Sadly, it isn’t what it once was.

      All is well. Peace and love and goldfish eyes and shit.

  140. Nathan (Nate) Tyree

      Jesus, don’t be touchy. I was mostly just jabbing at you because you’re tough, and you like to jab (I’ve gotten rejection letters from you man, I know you can jab). Your points about “flash” (a term I hate, but a form I love) seemed a bit, well, dumb. Based on what (little) I know of you, you couldn’t really mean it.

      The point about EC now is good. Sadly, it isn’t what it once was.

      All is well. Peace and love and goldfish eyes and shit.

  141. Lee

      Wow. Sorry. Didn’t mean to hurt you! Didn’t know people were so sensitive about their preferred text genre. Viva la FLASH!

  142. Lee

      Wow. Sorry. Didn’t mean to hurt you! Didn’t know people were so sensitive about their preferred text genre. Viva la FLASH!

  143. Lee

      I’m not too worried about being called dumb by someone who calls me dumb then proceeds to say “all is well” and “peace and love and goldfish eyes” . . . What I mean is: send some 144-word submission to Eyeshot so I can privately take my revenge . . .

  144. Lee

      I’m not too worried about being called dumb by someone who calls me dumb then proceeds to say “all is well” and “peace and love and goldfish eyes” . . . What I mean is: send some 144-word submission to Eyeshot so I can privately take my revenge . . .

  145. barry

      lee:

      it doesn’t hurt me. they are words. and i don’t have a preferred genre. i write whatever i feel like it whenever i want to. i just think its a slight to people who do write very very short things. an undeserved, ridiculous, unwarranted bit of criticism. that’s all im saying.

  146. barry

      lee:

      it doesn’t hurt me. they are words. and i don’t have a preferred genre. i write whatever i feel like it whenever i want to. i just think its a slight to people who do write very very short things. an undeserved, ridiculous, unwarranted bit of criticism. that’s all im saying.

  147. Nathan (Nate) Tyree

      Lee:

      I didn’t call you dumb, I said that what you said seemed dumb, and that I didn’t believe that you meant it.

      Whatever, though. I’ll take you up on the offer. Does it have to be exactly 144 words, or can I be insulted by you if I send 189 word submission?

  148. Nathan (Nate) Tyree

      Lee:

      I didn’t call you dumb, I said that what you said seemed dumb, and that I didn’t believe that you meant it.

      Whatever, though. I’ll take you up on the offer. Does it have to be exactly 144 words, or can I be insulted by you if I send 189 word submission?

  149. Lee

      I have no trouble with anyone who writes very, very short things, just with folks who use the term “flash” to describe such short/short things. Again, I am sorry for joking around – please accept my apologies, dear anyone reading this now or in the future. Maybe I should really start considering teeny tiny texts at Eyeshot? Doing so would definitely make it easier to increase Eyeshot stats on Duotrope at least.

  150. Lee

      I have no trouble with anyone who writes very, very short things, just with folks who use the term “flash” to describe such short/short things. Again, I am sorry for joking around – please accept my apologies, dear anyone reading this now or in the future. Maybe I should really start considering teeny tiny texts at Eyeshot? Doing so would definitely make it easier to increase Eyeshot stats on Duotrope at least.

  151. barry

      “I have no trouble with anyone who writes very, very short things,”

      you’re full of shit or you wouldnt have said this…

      “which the writers then list in silly cover letters accompanying a daily slew of simultaneous submissions, thinking such a list of publishing credits on wacky-named obscure websites will impress editors…”

      the word ‘writer” implies you werent talking about the term “flash” you were being an asshole. taking a cheap shot.

      what does duotrope have to do with writers using the term “flash”? nothing… because you’re full of shit.

  152. barry

      “I have no trouble with anyone who writes very, very short things,”

      you’re full of shit or you wouldnt have said this…

      “which the writers then list in silly cover letters accompanying a daily slew of simultaneous submissions, thinking such a list of publishing credits on wacky-named obscure websites will impress editors…”

      the word ‘writer” implies you werent talking about the term “flash” you were being an asshole. taking a cheap shot.

      what does duotrope have to do with writers using the term “flash”? nothing… because you’re full of shit.

  153. Lee

      When are you moving to Philly?

  154. Lee

      When are you moving to Philly?

  155. Lee

      Also, please realize that I can only be called “stupid,” “shithead,” and “full of shit” so many times before my shitty tender soul turns sad. This has ceased to be fun. Way to go, Barry.

  156. Lee

      Also, please realize that I can only be called “stupid,” “shithead,” and “full of shit” so many times before my shitty tender soul turns sad. This has ceased to be fun. Way to go, Barry.

  157. br

      barry,

      you need to relax man. it seems like you and jereme are always pissed off these days since you’re not playing your internet footsie with pr or whatever the fuck.

      i didn’t take lee’s earlier post to be a slam at people who wrote flash fiction, cuz there’s some damn good flash fiction out there, but against people who seem to use the form as a crutch for building up a pub resume. i mean, c’mon we’ve all seen those motherfuckers. honestly.

  158. br

      barry,

      you need to relax man. it seems like you and jereme are always pissed off these days since you’re not playing your internet footsie with pr or whatever the fuck.

      i didn’t take lee’s earlier post to be a slam at people who wrote flash fiction, cuz there’s some damn good flash fiction out there, but against people who seem to use the form as a crutch for building up a pub resume. i mean, c’mon we’ve all seen those motherfuckers. honestly.

  159. David Erlewine

      Hey, BR, I represent that. I am one of those motherfuckers building up my pub resume with flashes.

      In my defense, my short stories tend to have a lot of coughing and shuffling papers and picking up cans of soda and putting them down. I need to work on that.

  160. David Erlewine

      Hey, BR, I represent that. I am one of those motherfuckers building up my pub resume with flashes.

      In my defense, my short stories tend to have a lot of coughing and shuffling papers and picking up cans of soda and putting them down. I need to work on that.

  161. Tim Jones-Yelvington

      that’s why I use “work.” more inclusive.

  162. Tim Jones-Yelvington

      that’s why I use “work.” more inclusive.

  163. jereme

      i will admit that pr does sort of mitigate some of my hostility, however, i don’t think my tone has been any different than in the past.

      i only comment if i feel opinionated about a subject. otherwise i just keep my mouth shut.

      can what i say be delivered in a white laced box with a pink ribbon bow adorned with candy jewels? sure, i am sure it could. not by me though.

      there are plenty of people around here that will tip toe around something.

      this is how i am. i don’t know how to be any different.

  164. jereme

      i will admit that pr does sort of mitigate some of my hostility, however, i don’t think my tone has been any different than in the past.

      i only comment if i feel opinionated about a subject. otherwise i just keep my mouth shut.

      can what i say be delivered in a white laced box with a pink ribbon bow adorned with candy jewels? sure, i am sure it could. not by me though.

      there are plenty of people around here that will tip toe around something.

      this is how i am. i don’t know how to be any different.

  165. gena

      trtgyjuhjklkhikljkl;klkjslkdufyudflkdf shit motherfuckersssssssss

  166. gena

      trtgyjuhjklkhikljkl;klkjslkdufyudflkdf shit motherfuckersssssssss

  167. KevinS

      Can people also stop saying “published author.” As in “I’m a published author.” Sounds amateurish. Or even worse is when people feel they have to say “I’m a Random House published author.” Okay then.
      Also–I think work is fine in some cases. But chapbooks are not chaps. Call them “little books” though, if you want to be cute.

  168. KevinS

      Can people also stop saying “published author.” As in “I’m a published author.” Sounds amateurish. Or even worse is when people feel they have to say “I’m a Random House published author.” Okay then.
      Also–I think work is fine in some cases. But chapbooks are not chaps. Call them “little books” though, if you want to be cute.

  169. Gabriel Orgrease

      “I’m saying fuck the construction worker, he’s a boring piece of shit.” For me not quite as boring as the pedantic writer.

      I have a somewhat negative fixation about being called a stone mason who does stone work, though it is convenient in some neighborhoods. See, my entire life has been a parallel between writing poesy (that word makes my stomach turn) and prose and doing construction. So I am your TOKEN construction worker guy – and I did read all of the comments. With all due respect we rarely hawk a loog and I have no clue what Ruffles are – and not sure I want to know. I am always happy to flip a bird on the appropriate cue.

      As to writer, I prefer the term, Bullshit Artist and instead of ‘work’ I like to talk about the crap, “Would you like to read some of my crap?” It is a scatological leveling as if we truly eat it we should end up with some really fine crap. Like the nutritionist says, “Chew your food thoroughly.” Lots of fiber!

      I don’t really have so much of a problem with ‘flash’ as I tend to parse it down to the man/woman, standing on the street corner with their trench coat proudly held open to show their extra-special wares. I see it as a wonderful celebration of variety… except when it is really poo crap work (verbal trots flowed out onto the sidewalk) as I have to agree happens more commonly than jewels. Let me show you my little jewels… ah aghast that poetess said that one too many times in my range of hearing. Need for a super-duty air freshener.

      I do like short fiction, 200 words kind of stuff, as if I cannot get past the first 5 words I do not feel quite so wasteful of the writer’s time, and my time incidentally, for my not having any effin desire to read the remaining 195 words, as I would for not reading a remaining 4657 words. It is an economy of scale vs. guilt for not giving a shit sort of emotional equation.

  170. Gabriel Orgrease

      “I’m saying fuck the construction worker, he’s a boring piece of shit.” For me not quite as boring as the pedantic writer.

      I have a somewhat negative fixation about being called a stone mason who does stone work, though it is convenient in some neighborhoods. See, my entire life has been a parallel between writing poesy (that word makes my stomach turn) and prose and doing construction. So I am your TOKEN construction worker guy – and I did read all of the comments. With all due respect we rarely hawk a loog and I have no clue what Ruffles are – and not sure I want to know. I am always happy to flip a bird on the appropriate cue.

      As to writer, I prefer the term, Bullshit Artist and instead of ‘work’ I like to talk about the crap, “Would you like to read some of my crap?” It is a scatological leveling as if we truly eat it we should end up with some really fine crap. Like the nutritionist says, “Chew your food thoroughly.” Lots of fiber!

      I don’t really have so much of a problem with ‘flash’ as I tend to parse it down to the man/woman, standing on the street corner with their trench coat proudly held open to show their extra-special wares. I see it as a wonderful celebration of variety… except when it is really poo crap work (verbal trots flowed out onto the sidewalk) as I have to agree happens more commonly than jewels. Let me show you my little jewels… ah aghast that poetess said that one too many times in my range of hearing. Need for a super-duty air freshener.

      I do like short fiction, 200 words kind of stuff, as if I cannot get past the first 5 words I do not feel quite so wasteful of the writer’s time, and my time incidentally, for my not having any effin desire to read the remaining 195 words, as I would for not reading a remaining 4657 words. It is an economy of scale vs. guilt for not giving a shit sort of emotional equation.

  171. Blake Butler

      these are good thoughts. thank you gabe.

  172. Blake Butler

      these are good thoughts. thank you gabe.

  173. Gene Morgan

      This was a good comment thread. You can really tell who sucks.

      When I worked in a factory, no one would say “good work” if you did something they respected, it was usually “good job” or just silence, respect, and a growing trust. Work was never a noun.

      The people I respected most were the ones who kept their heads down, and you could trust not to fuck up.

      Everything I learned by working that job can be applied to writing. Every job is the same, they just serve different functions. If you think what you do is any different or better than what other people do, you are delusional.

      I get annoyed by most of the bastardized terms people use in writing because they are used by people when they want to signal to others that they are “in the know.” If you are “in the know” you don’t use stupid bastardized terms.

      As for “poet,” anyone who feels comfortable using that term in an absolute way should go ahead and use it. When I’ve used it I’ve felt like a leper. It felt synonymous with “jobless idiot.”

      If you are comfortable calling yourself a “jobless idiot,” you are either very confident or very ignorant.

      Using “writer” will help you communicate better with people who aren’t indoctrinated into the world of literature or art, which seems to be an increasingly infrequent task for a lot of writers.

  174. Gene Morgan

      This was a good comment thread. You can really tell who sucks.

      When I worked in a factory, no one would say “good work” if you did something they respected, it was usually “good job” or just silence, respect, and a growing trust. Work was never a noun.

      The people I respected most were the ones who kept their heads down, and you could trust not to fuck up.

      Everything I learned by working that job can be applied to writing. Every job is the same, they just serve different functions. If you think what you do is any different or better than what other people do, you are delusional.

      I get annoyed by most of the bastardized terms people use in writing because they are used by people when they want to signal to others that they are “in the know.” If you are “in the know” you don’t use stupid bastardized terms.

      As for “poet,” anyone who feels comfortable using that term in an absolute way should go ahead and use it. When I’ve used it I’ve felt like a leper. It felt synonymous with “jobless idiot.”

      If you are comfortable calling yourself a “jobless idiot,” you are either very confident or very ignorant.

      Using “writer” will help you communicate better with people who aren’t indoctrinated into the world of literature or art, which seems to be an increasingly infrequent task for a lot of writers.

  175. jereme

      gene is one of my new favorite shiny objects since awp.

  176. jereme

      gene is one of my new favorite shiny objects since awp.

  177. james yeh

      gene 4 prez

  178. james yeh

      gene 4 prez

  179. Red

      Fuck terms. Reading this 90 comment-long thread reaffirmed my long-standing opinion:

      Hell isn’t other people. Hell is other writers.

      I like your work. I hate you as people. You’re all insecure and bitter and whiny. Everyone that posts on HTML GIANT. Everyone that posts in the comment section. I want to punch each and every one of you in the mouth.

      I hate Blake Butler. So much work, so much dedication, so little talent — and so, so smug.
      I hate pr. Posts too many posts, all shitty.
      I hate Justin Taylor. My God, do I hate Justin Taylor. For the last time, I get it: you teach creative writing, you’ve been anthologized, you love getting on your knees and kissing other, more established writers’ asses. Kill yourself.
      Jimmy Chen’s a dancing chimp.
      I hate Lee. Editing a online zine does not give you license to be a cock. How is this? Simple: you edit a fucking ONLINE ZINE. You’re pathetic. Your parents are not proud of you.
      I hate barry and gene morgan and anyone else who posts in the HTML GIANT comment section. You’re a small evolutionary step above maggots.

      I hate all writers. All of you. When I write, I hate myself.

      We should break our social ties and each start hanging out with scientists.

  180. Red

      Fuck terms. Reading this 90 comment-long thread reaffirmed my long-standing opinion:

      Hell isn’t other people. Hell is other writers.

      I like your work. I hate you as people. You’re all insecure and bitter and whiny. Everyone that posts on HTML GIANT. Everyone that posts in the comment section. I want to punch each and every one of you in the mouth.

      I hate Blake Butler. So much work, so much dedication, so little talent — and so, so smug.
      I hate pr. Posts too many posts, all shitty.
      I hate Justin Taylor. My God, do I hate Justin Taylor. For the last time, I get it: you teach creative writing, you’ve been anthologized, you love getting on your knees and kissing other, more established writers’ asses. Kill yourself.
      Jimmy Chen’s a dancing chimp.
      I hate Lee. Editing a online zine does not give you license to be a cock. How is this? Simple: you edit a fucking ONLINE ZINE. You’re pathetic. Your parents are not proud of you.
      I hate barry and gene morgan and anyone else who posts in the HTML GIANT comment section. You’re a small evolutionary step above maggots.

      I hate all writers. All of you. When I write, I hate myself.

      We should break our social ties and each start hanging out with scientists.

  181. jereme

      this post made me laugh. i liked it.

      i get no hate though. i’m gonna go cry now.

  182. jereme

      this post made me laugh. i liked it.

      i get no hate though. i’m gonna go cry now.

  183. Jimmy Chen

      dancing chimps are cool

  184. Jimmy Chen

      dancing chimps are cool

  185. Gabriel Orgrease

      I like a good stir. Old rule of thumb: when things get boring start a fight.

  186. Gabriel Orgrease

      I like a good stir. Old rule of thumb: when things get boring start a fight.

  187. james yeh

      fuck i need some hate too

  188. james yeh

      fuck i need some hate too

  189. Blake Butler

      tru dat

  190. Blake Butler

      tru dat

  191. JW Veldhoen

      Fuckk all of youuuuuu

  192. JW Veldhoen

      Fuckk all of youuuuuu

  193. Blake Butler

      word life n whatnot

  194. Blake Butler

      word life n whatnot

  195. Blake Butler

      this dude totally listens to nofx

  196. Blake Butler

      this dude totally listens to nofx

  197. Jimmy Chen

      lol

  198. Jimmy Chen

      lol

  199. Matthew Simmons

      I hate the word “writer.” I prefer “word worker.”

      Or, “unemployed.”

  200. Matthew Simmons

      I hate the word “writer.” I prefer “word worker.”

      Or, “unemployed.”

  201. barry

      since when is laughing at other people’s expense fun? it was never fun to me, and i imagine lots of other people as well, but hell, now that you decided its not fun for you, i guess thats all that matters to you.

  202. barry

      i’ll be in philly at the end of may.

  203. barry

      since when is laughing at other people’s expense fun? it was never fun to me, and i imagine lots of other people as well, but hell, now that you decided its not fun for you, i guess thats all that matters to you.

  204. barry

      i’ll be in philly at the end of may.

  205. jereme

      you and the nofx bashing again.

  206. jereme

      you and the nofx bashing again.

  207. barry

      br –

      i hear ya man. but he seemed to imply that writers who ascribe to that sort of behavior do so in the flash genre moreso than others. which is ridiculous. he was implying that flash sites are stuffed full with shitty words written by leeches, and my point was that happens everywhere in all genres, fiction, poetry, whatever. so to act like it happens moreso with flash then with others is nonsense.

      and im not pissed off, i was offended, which was his intention. and why do people feel they have the right to offend people but the second that person counters, everyone wants to say, “chill out man, chill out.” why. because you fucking said so? really? br said calm down guys, so its time to settle down?

  208. barry

      br –

      i hear ya man. but he seemed to imply that writers who ascribe to that sort of behavior do so in the flash genre moreso than others. which is ridiculous. he was implying that flash sites are stuffed full with shitty words written by leeches, and my point was that happens everywhere in all genres, fiction, poetry, whatever. so to act like it happens moreso with flash then with others is nonsense.

      and im not pissed off, i was offended, which was his intention. and why do people feel they have the right to offend people but the second that person counters, everyone wants to say, “chill out man, chill out.” why. because you fucking said so? really? br said calm down guys, so its time to settle down?

  209. barry

      im sorry you hate yourself red. really. if its that bad see someone professionally. there’s no help for you here.

  210. barry

      im sorry you hate yourself red. really. if its that bad see someone professionally. there’s no help for you here.

  211. james yeh

      “Wurdd Life” like “Thugg Life”?

  212. james yeh

      “Wurdd Life” like “Thugg Life”?

  213. Lee

      Again, I’m sorry to have offended you, BARRY GRAHAM. I was having some fun, posting a controversial nugget that would stir things up a little. I’m sorry to have stirred you up so much that you wind up coming off as humorless and insecure, attacking me directly instead of arguing more in favor of the merits of the term “flash” and gathering tons of publishing credits etc. It’s sort of silly to take it all so seriously, considering no money is involved, our livelihoods don’t depend on it, I haven’t insulted your family or called you an idiot directly beneath your complete capitalized name . . . but thanks to you, I’m considering opening submissions to “flash” on my pissant online zine.

  214. Lee

      Again, I’m sorry to have offended you, BARRY GRAHAM. I was having some fun, posting a controversial nugget that would stir things up a little. I’m sorry to have stirred you up so much that you wind up coming off as humorless and insecure, attacking me directly instead of arguing more in favor of the merits of the term “flash” and gathering tons of publishing credits etc. It’s sort of silly to take it all so seriously, considering no money is involved, our livelihoods don’t depend on it, I haven’t insulted your family or called you an idiot directly beneath your complete capitalized name . . . but thanks to you, I’m considering opening submissions to “flash” on my pissant online zine.

  215. Lee

      I can be a cock because I’m 6’3” and have a violent streak, not because of my pissant online zine, which my father reads obsessively/proudly.

  216. Lee

      I can be a cock because I’m 6’3” and have a violent streak, not because of my pissant online zine, which my father reads obsessively/proudly.

  217. Lee

      Oh good.

  218. Lee

      Oh good.

  219. james yeh

      wait, we’re bringing height into this?

      i kind of wish my father read.

  220. james yeh

      wait, we’re bringing height into this?

      i kind of wish my father read.

  221. james yeh

      of course then i would have to worry about all the shit-talking i do about him. so maybe it’s good he doesn’t read

  222. james yeh

      of course then i would have to worry about all the shit-talking i do about him. so maybe it’s good he doesn’t read

  223. barry

      again, i dont know why i would come off as having humor. you didnt say anything funny.

      and if you take me defending flash fiction writers as insecurtiy, thats your shortcoming, not mine.

      i agree with what you are saying about folks who gather pubs. 100 percent. but you made it out like that only happens with flash writers on flash sites when we both know that isnt the case. thats all im saying. you insinuated that the only people who write very short fictions are talentless hacks who arent good enough to write real fiction. you can argue all day that thats not what you said or meant, but it is. and yes, since my site clearly uses the word “flash” in its description i was offended. not for myself. i know what i can and cant do with words. but it was a slight to all the folks who contribute to the site. and you are pretending its not. thats all im saying. is there less shitty poetry out there than flash fiction? is there less shitty longer fiction? thats all im saying.

      also. i never once said ill words about eyeshot. i respect its content and contributors. never insinuated anything about pissants. i made that clear from the jump.

  224. barry

      again, i dont know why i would come off as having humor. you didnt say anything funny.

      and if you take me defending flash fiction writers as insecurtiy, thats your shortcoming, not mine.

      i agree with what you are saying about folks who gather pubs. 100 percent. but you made it out like that only happens with flash writers on flash sites when we both know that isnt the case. thats all im saying. you insinuated that the only people who write very short fictions are talentless hacks who arent good enough to write real fiction. you can argue all day that thats not what you said or meant, but it is. and yes, since my site clearly uses the word “flash” in its description i was offended. not for myself. i know what i can and cant do with words. but it was a slight to all the folks who contribute to the site. and you are pretending its not. thats all im saying. is there less shitty poetry out there than flash fiction? is there less shitty longer fiction? thats all im saying.

      also. i never once said ill words about eyeshot. i respect its content and contributors. never insinuated anything about pissants. i made that clear from the jump.

  225. barry

      at least you can admit you’re a cock. thats step one.

      i am a dickhead too. and i’ve been through all the steps.

      im 5’9, and have no need for a violent streak. are our heights somehow relevant on a literary blog? who sounds insecure?

  226. barry

      at least you can admit you’re a cock. thats step one.

      i am a dickhead too. and i’ve been through all the steps.

      im 5’9, and have no need for a violent streak. are our heights somehow relevant on a literary blog? who sounds insecure?

  227. Lee

      This is a response above Barry’s response below because I couldn’t respond to his reply etc etc: first, I had no idea you ran dogzplot – I thought David Erlewine did – though I should say that I almost never see any submissions under 200 words that I’d consider posting. Supershort stories are insanely tough to do well. Anyway – maybe one thing you’ll learn when on the East Coast, especially in ever-sarcastic Philly, is that you can say what you mean and also not mean it. It doesn’t really make sense, but people seriously joke about everything – you say what you mean and yet you don’t entirely mean it. It’s evil, essentially, but it’s our culture, along with cheesesteaks and murder. It’s the opposite of midwestern earnestness. Your insecurity and humorlessness will do well here. Let me know when you arrive in May so I can buy you a beer and you can kick me in the nuts.

  228. Lee

      This is a response above Barry’s response below because I couldn’t respond to his reply etc etc: first, I had no idea you ran dogzplot – I thought David Erlewine did – though I should say that I almost never see any submissions under 200 words that I’d consider posting. Supershort stories are insanely tough to do well. Anyway – maybe one thing you’ll learn when on the East Coast, especially in ever-sarcastic Philly, is that you can say what you mean and also not mean it. It doesn’t really make sense, but people seriously joke about everything – you say what you mean and yet you don’t entirely mean it. It’s evil, essentially, but it’s our culture, along with cheesesteaks and murder. It’s the opposite of midwestern earnestness. Your insecurity and humorlessness will do well here. Let me know when you arrive in May so I can buy you a beer and you can kick me in the nuts.

  229. Lee

      Oh, Barry, will you ever cease?

  230. Lee

      Oh, Barry, will you ever cease?

  231. barry

      lee:

      hahahahaha. ok. now its funny to me. i can stop.

  232. barry

      lee:

      hahahahaha. ok. now its funny to me. i can stop.

  233. barry

      lee:

      final thing and then im done. i grew up in pa. split custody between philly and lancaster. city not county. im just coming home. 99 percent of the time i share your sense of – never take anything i say seriously, just know i always mean what i say – its in my blood. im usually just fucking around. its just been a fucked up week full of fucked up shit.

      what you took as insecurity i meant as speaking up for friends.
      what you meant as, im 6’3 and violent, i took as insecurity.

      either way, i dont even remember blake’s original discussion so its probably time for me to shut the fuck up.

  234. barry

      lee:

      final thing and then im done. i grew up in pa. split custody between philly and lancaster. city not county. im just coming home. 99 percent of the time i share your sense of – never take anything i say seriously, just know i always mean what i say – its in my blood. im usually just fucking around. its just been a fucked up week full of fucked up shit.

      what you took as insecurity i meant as speaking up for friends.
      what you meant as, im 6’3 and violent, i took as insecurity.

      either way, i dont even remember blake’s original discussion so its probably time for me to shut the fuck up.

  235. Lee

      dude, ever heard of e-mail?

  236. Lee

      dude, ever heard of e-mail?

  237. Gene Morgan

      I should point out that I also edit an online zine.

  238. Gene Morgan

      I should point out that I also edit an online zine.

  239. gena

      don’t fuck with barry graham!

  240. gena

      don’t fuck with barry graham!

  241. gena

      yes!

  242. gena

      yes!

  243. ben

      i often list my height & build in my bio because i like to pretend it is a personal ad.

  244. ben

      i often list my height & build in my bio because i like to pretend it is a personal ad.

  245. JW Veldhoen

      Wow, hovering over this, I’ve reconsidered, and I wish that I had said some things differently. Like, I wish I had not said fuck all of you. And I ought to have clarified what I said about the construction worker as a figure. The construction worker I was referring to would “not waste his time worrying.” That is, he would not build his apperception. I worry all the time.

      Going back, maybe people who say “chaps” are merely exited, and thank god they are exited about something besides whatever they are required to be. I wish I hadn’t made that tasteless joke. Distinctions in form, between fiction and poetry, while useless, also give people something nice to talk about. Work is work. If I’ve acted like a pedant, I’m sorry. I was merely exited. Impersonal is very difficult to achieve while writing. It would have been better to say nothing at all.

  246. JW Veldhoen

      Wow, hovering over this, I’ve reconsidered, and I wish that I had said some things differently. Like, I wish I had not said fuck all of you. And I ought to have clarified what I said about the construction worker as a figure. The construction worker I was referring to would “not waste his time worrying.” That is, he would not build his apperception. I worry all the time.

      Going back, maybe people who say “chaps” are merely exited, and thank god they are exited about something besides whatever they are required to be. I wish I hadn’t made that tasteless joke. Distinctions in form, between fiction and poetry, while useless, also give people something nice to talk about. Work is work. If I’ve acted like a pedant, I’m sorry. I was merely exited. Impersonal is very difficult to achieve while writing. It would have been better to say nothing at all.

  247. james yeh

      JW, is your “c” button missing or something? you keep saying “exited” instead of “excited”. it made reading your last msg really strange, as i feel like it was probably sincere but then the mistyped word kept occurring and it made me feel like i was being made fun of for thinking it was sincere. really odd experience reading that. i don’t mean that antagonistically.

  248. james yeh

      JW, is your “c” button missing or something? you keep saying “exited” instead of “excited”. it made reading your last msg really strange, as i feel like it was probably sincere but then the mistyped word kept occurring and it made me feel like i was being made fun of for thinking it was sincere. really odd experience reading that. i don’t mean that antagonistically.

  249. Gabriel Orgrease

      I do not know anyone here well enough to insult them and I had no intention of doing so in my comment on my personal dislike of pedantic writers though I appreciate any intimacy of internalized responses. Nobody quoted the likes of Rod McKuen (a favorite of farmer’s daughters) and so therefore my assumption is you all ain’t pedantic writers.

      I will say though that the romanticized version of a construction worker as a point-and-shoot gruff mindless brainless non-feeling non-worrying sort of macho action figure is a bit narrow. I have had some really quite amazing semi-literary discussions while standing around in a ditch with a shovel.

      What Lee says about people that write really short crap and flood the submittal funnel with it was true 40 years ago, as I know it, and it is nothing new. It does not obviate that there was good short work from 40 years ago to now, but it does tend to obscure finding any of it, and it does tend to wear down editors who bother to read all of the crap that comes their way — and in a way their role is to sort the crap from the not so much crap. I don’t read it, neither do I edit it, neither do I give a rat’s ass to do so (that is the construction worker side speaking up about the anatomy of rats, who are also known to make crap, sometimes they make toxic crap — oh, I would love to be called a PROPAGANDIST…).

      As to the insularity of literary writers to tend to be stuck in a world of relating with writers, being read by writers, being lauded by writers, well… maybe learning to handle a shovel and a pick, or a hammer maybe is not such a bad thing. There are a whole lot of things to do in the world besides scribble short notes to self.

  250. Gabriel Orgrease

      I do not know anyone here well enough to insult them and I had no intention of doing so in my comment on my personal dislike of pedantic writers though I appreciate any intimacy of internalized responses. Nobody quoted the likes of Rod McKuen (a favorite of farmer’s daughters) and so therefore my assumption is you all ain’t pedantic writers.

      I will say though that the romanticized version of a construction worker as a point-and-shoot gruff mindless brainless non-feeling non-worrying sort of macho action figure is a bit narrow. I have had some really quite amazing semi-literary discussions while standing around in a ditch with a shovel.

      What Lee says about people that write really short crap and flood the submittal funnel with it was true 40 years ago, as I know it, and it is nothing new. It does not obviate that there was good short work from 40 years ago to now, but it does tend to obscure finding any of it, and it does tend to wear down editors who bother to read all of the crap that comes their way — and in a way their role is to sort the crap from the not so much crap. I don’t read it, neither do I edit it, neither do I give a rat’s ass to do so (that is the construction worker side speaking up about the anatomy of rats, who are also known to make crap, sometimes they make toxic crap — oh, I would love to be called a PROPAGANDIST…).

      As to the insularity of literary writers to tend to be stuck in a world of relating with writers, being read by writers, being lauded by writers, well… maybe learning to handle a shovel and a pick, or a hammer maybe is not such a bad thing. There are a whole lot of things to do in the world besides scribble short notes to self.

  251. JW Veldhoen

      Yes, the romantic construction of a worker, that’s what language is. The question is the good faith of that construction. Am I excited? Have I exited?

  252. JW Veldhoen

      Yes, the romantic construction of a worker, that’s what language is. The question is the good faith of that construction. Am I excited? Have I exited?

  253. JW Veldhoen

      Having fun is sincere.

  254. JW Veldhoen

      Having fun is sincere.