February 24th, 2014 / 9:30 pm
 Behind the Scenes

Managing Editor

ugh

Hey Everyone,

Blake and I have decided that I will be managing this site for a while.

If you’ve never heard of me, I started this site with Blake, I love the beach, own a high-end retail store, and have two wonderful children and a loving wife that refers to me as her “ladyman.”

Blake will continue to be the Executive Editor of Htmlgiant, and I will listen to him when he has something to say. He is my boss.

Up until this point, for the past 5-6 years, writers have published their own posts without having to get them approved. We changed this ten minutes ago.

This will allow us to address problems with content before it goes live, time posts appropriately, stop embedded video from looking all fucked-up, and generally make everything more cohesive.

What does this mean for you? Well, for one, you’ve got a new buddy! I’m your buddy! Other than that, it depends.

I will answer any and all questions below. You can also reach me at gene@htmlgiant.com if you’ve got a less-public concern.

I love you all, and thank you for visiting us at Htmlgiant,

Gene

235 Comments

  1. February 24th, 2014 / 9:38 pm Brandon Gorrell—

      sweet

  2. February 24th, 2014 / 9:43 pm Dena Rash Guzman—

      Thanks for stepping in. Best of luck. There is a lot of great stuff here. I missed what happened today, but some people are pretty upset. What will be the comment policy? The same? Is it okay for women to be called bitch and stuff like that still? Thanks, D

  3. February 24th, 2014 / 9:53 pm Gene Morgan—

      That’s never been “okay.”

      I can’t possibly police everything, but my inbox is always open to you. If you have an issue, we will address it.

  4. February 24th, 2014 / 10:11 pm Caleb Powell—

      Excellent, I’ll start visiting the site more than I had been.

  5. February 24th, 2014 / 10:41 pm Molly Brodak—

      Yay we love you too Gene!

  6. February 24th, 2014 / 10:55 pm Amy Silbergeld—

      Are you or Blake going to make a comment re: why this happened?

  7. February 24th, 2014 / 10:57 pm Amy Silbergeld—

      Hi Gene,

      I think that this was a good move. I hope that you are able to make this a safer space for women. In fact, I would suggest that you add a woman to your core editorial team.

      –Amy

  8. February 24th, 2014 / 11:44 pm Gene Morgan—

      Blake and I have been discussing a transition into this for years, but the culture of the site recently is the main motivator for me, personally.

      There have been several posts, including Janey’s, that I think could have been edited or, in some cases, completely avoided if someone else (anyone) read them before they went live.

      I want this place to be fun. When I have to stare at a screen and think about rape real hard so I can comment on a post I didn’t write, don’t agree with, didn’t approve, but still somehow feel responsible for, that’s not fun.

      This place should be a carnival of thought, delight, and yes maybe something to think hard about. But it should never be a place for violence, abuse, or angry personal accusations. I don’t live my life for that kind of shit.

  9. February 24th, 2014 / 11:45 pm Amy McDaniel—

      Melissa Broder and Janice Lee are editors and women and core and team. Don’t overlook their good work!

  10. February 24th, 2014 / 11:56 pm Gene Morgan—

      Those two alone are a huge part of Htmlgiant. Especially Janice. She’s responsible for so much content at this point, I don’t know how we’d function without her.

  11. February 24th, 2014 / 11:56 pm Amy Silbergeld—

      I do appreciate their work, though it clearly hasn’t been preventing the problematic posts on this site.

  12. February 24th, 2014 / 11:57 pm Amy Silbergeld—

      Do you or Blake intend to issue am apology for Steven’s recent post? Do you plan to publish the post that I (a rape survivor) wrote in response?

  13. February 24th, 2014 / 11:58 pm Amy Silbergeld—

      Or is protecting women something you just don’t have time for?

  14. February 25th, 2014 / 12:10 am Roxane—

      ??????

  15. February 25th, 2014 / 12:12 am Gene Morgan—

      I have time for it every day. I just put my daughter to bed.

      I don’t take responsibility for the post, but I will say that I took it down. I apologize for any pain it caused you, and will promise you, personally, that it will not happen here again.

  16. February 25th, 2014 / 12:14 am deadgod—

      What did happen? I see that the post interspersing Mary Beard’s diary entry with movie and opera stills depicting rape has gone 404. Why?

  17. February 25th, 2014 / 12:17 am NewerYork—
  18. February 25th, 2014 / 12:17 am NewerYork—

      You spelled embedded wrong.

  19. February 25th, 2014 / 12:17 am Gene Morgan—

      lol

  20. February 25th, 2014 / 12:19 am Amy Silbergeld—

      I’m happy to fill you in on anything you missed, Roxanne.

  21. February 25th, 2014 / 12:20 am Amy Silbergeld—

      Will you allow Steven/”Janey” to continue to post?

  22. February 25th, 2014 / 12:32 am Amy Silbergeld—
  23. February 25th, 2014 / 12:36 am Gene Morgan—

      I have to talk to him first before I make that decision.

  24. February 25th, 2014 / 12:39 am Amy Silbergeld—

      Are you aware that multiple women allege that he abused them?

  25. February 25th, 2014 / 1:01 am Kat Dixon—

      Uh oh. Not having fun, Gene? Don’t like having to think about rape? Welcome to womanhood.

      Regardless of whether you personally agree with an article, you as editor – and now managing editor – are absolutely responsible for everything published here. Whether you’re controlling it or not. Now that you’ve gotten a loftier title, I sure hope you plan on owning up to the grave mistakes this site has made. Otherwise, shame on you and shame on this space.

  26. February 25th, 2014 / 1:09 am Amy Silbergeld—

      That’s a great question, and one that I hope Gene or Blake will answer.

  27. February 25th, 2014 / 1:25 am Adam Robinson—

      This seems like the sort of thing that would be better asked in an email to Gene, as he invited.

  28. February 25th, 2014 / 1:28 am Amy Silbergeld—

      It can and should be as public as possible to protect other women.

  29. February 25th, 2014 / 1:33 am Amy McDaniel—

      Thank you for this post, Gene. I’m sorry it has come to this — not you taking the helm (and if I’m not mistaken, managing editor has been your title forevs), because of course you will do that great, but having to change the open posting policy. As a feminist and longtime contributor to this site, I’ve certainly seen (and been the target of) some of the worst literate humanity has to offer in the comments section, and I’ve taken vocal exception to posts in the past, but I’ve always appreciated the freedom I’ve had as a contributor not to be edited. It’s so terrible that people have abused that privilege. But, that’s the fact of the matter, and our commenters and audience have started to pay attention only to those few offensive (and now removed) posts at the expense of all the good that’s here — Sunday Service, a beautiful range of book reviews, bizarre shit, compelling and original essays. So, this seems like the right decision. I’m excited about the future of the internet magazine of the future.

  30. February 25th, 2014 / 1:36 am Amy McDaniel—

      What do you mean by “protect women?” What do you see as a publication’s role in protecting women?

  31. February 25th, 2014 / 1:44 am Amy Silbergeld—

      I mean: I sure would have liked to know that my rapist and abuser had done the same to others before I let him into my life. I imagine other potential victims would appreciate the same.

      I’m a strong believer in free speech and have no stake in dictating what other editors do with their publications. I would like to see this site saved rather than see it fail, because of the large volume of wonderful content you mentioned above. The majority of contributors to this site are excellent. I do not think that allowing an alleged abuser who also plagiarized the work of a female academic on this site should contribute. That creates an unsafe space for the other contributors, especially the women, as his victims to my knowledge have all been women.

      In terms of my own standards my own publication’s role in protecting women: They’re high. Mission statement is here: http://thelastwomensmagazine.com/about/

      I’m not suggesting that HTMLGIANT adopt the same mission statement. I am suggesting they seriously consider removing Steven from the masthead.

  32. February 25th, 2014 / 1:56 am Amy McDaniel—

      Okay. I think I’m lacking some context here. Are you saying Janey is your rapist/abuser, or is that an analogy? I also haven’t seen the allegations against Janey that you mention. Also, he isn’t anywhere on the masthead.

      That’s a great mission statement, and I’m sure you’d agree that Gene is making efforts in a similar direction by removing Janey’s post, investigating whether to allow him to post with permission, and changing the open posting policy. Seems like the rest of us can get back to doing what we do best — making people think, stirring up trouble in a harmless way, and talking about books till we’re blue.

  33. February 25th, 2014 / 1:59 am mimi—

      i come to htmlg for fun, but i also come here to exercise my brain, which Janey’s post, and the ensuing discussion, has caused me to do

      including, in this case, as a woman, and as the mother of a daughter and a son

      no pain, no gain, as they say

      hang in there, gene morgan – i see a lot of good coming from all this

  34. February 25th, 2014 / 2:03 am Gene Morgan—

      I’m married and have a daughter, so yes I do think about rape. You wrongly assume that I don’t have to regularly address the emotional consequences of rape in my life because I’m a man.

      Stop trolling, please.

  35. February 25th, 2014 / 2:03 am Amy Silbergeld—

      I could have sworn he was listed here: http://htmlgiant.com/about/

      He’s either been removed or I was mistaken. So that’s good to see.

      I have never met Steven Trull in real life. Following his post “On Rape,” I spoke with two women who both told me that he abused them. One of the women reported that additional women have been harmed as well. She alleges that Steven raped her.

      These women independently told me almost identical stories about textbook gaslighting and other patterns of horrid abuse by Trull.

      I wrote a long response to the recent post by Trull, which was reviewed by a lawyer.

      It hasn’t been published. I wonder if it will be.

  36. February 25th, 2014 / 2:08 am Amy Silbergeld—

      Kat is not trolling. She simply stated that, as women, this is something we have to think about on a daily basis. She then asserted that editors are indeed responsible for the content of the material in their publications. I fail to see how any of that constitutes trolling.

      Neither being married nor having a daughter makes you a woman.

      Women are much more likely than men to be raped.

      If you mean that you have been raped, then I empathize and understand that male survivors experience unique challenges and stigma. If you mean that you have addressed the emotional consequences of rape on others, and you think that experience can be likened to that of actually being raped, I’m speechless.

  37. February 25th, 2014 / 2:13 am mimi—

      my life as a woman does not include “hav(ing) to think about rape on a daily basis”

  38. February 25th, 2014 / 2:15 am keedee—

      Amy, your reaction was initially positive with some reservation.

  39. February 25th, 2014 / 2:19 am Amy Silbergeld—

      You’re very fortunate.

      And of course I hope it is something your daughter doesn’t have to think about regularly, either.

      I imagine that it’s easier to think about less often when you have not been a victim.

  40. February 25th, 2014 / 2:19 am Kat Dixon—

      I haven’t assumed anything, Gene. I’ve responded directly to your own words. I do find it telling, however, that you automatically assumed me to be a troll when I, as a woman and a female writer, have as much – or more, since you don’t consider yourself to be responsible for the post in question – invested in this conversation as you do. I also haven’t seen much attempt by you or other moderators to discourage real trolls from commenting on this site. But maybe my gender alone is enough for you to come out and discourage my participation in this conversation.

  41. February 25th, 2014 / 2:21 am Gene Morgan—

      Trolling, again.

  42. February 25th, 2014 / 2:23 am Amy Silbergeld—
  43. February 25th, 2014 / 2:24 am Amy Silbergeld—

      If you read through the comments, I both clarify my initial response and develop my opinion as Steven adds introductory information and explains his intentions.

  44. February 25th, 2014 / 2:24 am Gene Morgan—

      I don’t owe it to you to recount my personal rape story, and I definitely don’t want to share it here, in the comment section of Htmlgiant.

      By prodding me into sharing my rape history, you too are trolling.

  45. February 25th, 2014 / 2:25 am Amy Silbergeld—

      You certainly don’t owe it to me, or to anyone. I said that if that was the case, I empathize. I didn’t solicit a story or even a yes or no answer.

  46. February 25th, 2014 / 2:26 am Amy Silbergeld—

      “If you mean that you have been raped, then I empathize and understand that male survivors experience unique challenges and stigma.”

  47. February 25th, 2014 / 2:27 am Amy Silbergeld—

      Can you explain why you perceive that as trolling, Gene?

  48. February 25th, 2014 / 2:29 am Kat Dixon—

      Perhaps “Join the discussion…” should come with a long list of specific caveats based on Gene’s discretion.

  49. February 25th, 2014 / 2:31 am keedee—

      For what it’s worth, I think Gene can be trusted to address this kind of content in the future. It’s a positive step.

  50. February 25th, 2014 / 2:34 am Kat Dixon—

      If you’ll browse above, you’ll see that Gene has attempted to silence Amy Silbergeld and me for disagreeing with his lack of response to the issues at hand by calling us both “trolls.” I don’t think he can be trusted to make this space a safe one for women. Or at least women with thoughts that differ from his own.

  51. February 25th, 2014 / 2:36 am Gene Morgan—

      No, you just provided an opportunity to give you my angle in order to back myself up, which is shitty.

      Listen, I’m on your side and have long pushed for certain things to happen on this site. I was able to step down from my position at work last week, and now have time to focus on the problems we’ve had here for a while now. Things will change.

      I want to keep it positive, and move forward for little while. We’ll get to a point where we can drag some things out from tour troubled past, but we need love and positivity for a minute. People need hugs sometimes.

  52. February 25th, 2014 / 2:36 am Amy Silbergeld—

      He accused me of trolling for writing: “If you mean that you have been raped, then I empathize and understand that male survivors experience unique challenges and stigma.” (Direct quote, see below.) He said that this was “prodding him for his rape story.”

  53. February 25th, 2014 / 2:38 am Kat Dixon—

      You don’t deserve a hug. You haven’t done anything. You haven’t even accepted responsibility for something you are – as an EDITOR – responsible for.

  54. February 25th, 2014 / 2:39 am Gene Morgan—

      “But maybe my gender alone is enough for you to come out and discourage my participation in this conversation.”

      When you say things like this, it’s trolling. You want me to get emotional and respond. You are not having a conversation, you are saying things to get a rise out of me.

  55. February 25th, 2014 / 2:40 am Amy Silbergeld—

      It seems like it would have been easier to simply issue an apology in the first place?

  56. February 25th, 2014 / 2:41 am Amy Silbergeld—

      It looks to me like Kat was expressing that she felt you were trying to silence her due to her gender. That seems like an important conversation to have. It also seems like you just don’t want to have it.

  57. February 25th, 2014 / 2:43 am Mike Meginnis—

      Not going to get sucked into the unproductive threads here, just want to voice support for and excitement about this decision.

      I also feel skeptical that womanhood now comes with a clear moral right to never be called out on unambiguously trolling behavior. But, as I said, I promised myself I wouldn’t get sucked in. Will write something nice about a book I love tomorrow instead.

  58. February 25th, 2014 / 2:43 am Kat Dixon—

      In that case, you too can be accused of trolling, Gene. Using your wife and daughter as pawns to prove your acknowledgement of the existence of rape is an emotional tactic used to deflect from the actual conversation.

  59. February 25th, 2014 / 2:45 am Gene Morgan—

      Why would I ever want to silence someone because of their gender?

  60. February 25th, 2014 / 2:45 am shaun gannon—

      i look forward to positive changes coming to this site, a site that has done great things for great people in the past. and for your sake, gene, i hope those changes somehow roll through here at inhuman speed, because my GOD some of you people are fucking VICIOUS!

      Yes, sometimes you are talking to a total piece of shit who deserves awful things to befall them in various ways. But a lot of the time, you’re just talking to a person with positive intentions, but that person probably doesn’t have the same body of knowledge and experience as you do because they’re not exactly you in every regard! So you should view dialogues as opportunities to learn, educate, and evolve, instead of only speaking out of fury at someone you for some reason assume should already have the same perspective as you, despite not having it for years and years before. It does not help society, it does not help communities, and it does not help individuals.

      best of luck to htmlgiant!

  61. February 25th, 2014 / 2:45 am Amy Silbergeld—

      The level of #whitemaleproverbs tired old rhetoric in this comment thread is staggering.

  62. February 25th, 2014 / 2:46 am Mike Meginnis—

      :)

  63. February 25th, 2014 / 2:47 am Gene Morgan—

      Please stop treating me this way. I’ve done nothing to you.

  64. February 25th, 2014 / 2:47 am Amy Silbergeld—

      Well, it’s not an insane assumption from any woman of any man given how often women are silenced.

  65. February 25th, 2014 / 2:48 am Amy Silbergeld—

      She’s just calling you out. You did use your daughter and wife as your “but I have black friends!” card, and now you have to deal with the fact that you made that decision.

  66. February 25th, 2014 / 2:48 am Adam Robinson—

      Like, see, I don’t want to just support Gene because he’s my friend, but shaming him and saying “welcome to womanhood” could be construed as trolling because it aimed for vitriol before it tried to be productive.

      It is, at least, not “simply stating” something, as you suggest, Amy.

      If a person doesn’t like a website (saying “Fuck You HTMLGiant in a different forum, like Twitter), but then goes to that website to comment a lot, that is my understanding of classic trolling.

  67. February 25th, 2014 / 2:48 am Amy Silbergeld—

      “FEMALE PRIVILEGE!!!” “MISANDRY!!!!”

  68. February 25th, 2014 / 2:50 am Amy Silbergeld—

      I think a lot of us like much of this site–the reviews, Melissa’s Sunday Service, etc.–but are tired of the bullshit. We’d like to see in change for the better. The editors have the power to change it if they choose to.

  69. February 25th, 2014 / 2:51 am Kat Dixon—

      I’ve only called out a wrongdoing. You have – as EDITOR – helped to make this place an unwelcoming one for me and for many other women. If my saying that is too harsh for you, well, sorry, but it’s still the truth. Whether you accept it or not is up to you.

  70. February 25th, 2014 / 2:53 am Amy Silbergeld—

      It’s my truth, too. Despite the excellent female contributors and wealth of good content, the sexist ugliness that is allowed here makes me and most women I know feel unsafe here.

      You can either work to change this, or you can ignore the very people who can help you the most because WE ARE SOME OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE HURT BY THE NEGATIVE THINGS THAT HAPPEN HERE.

  71. February 25th, 2014 / 2:53 am Mike Meginnis—

      Nope. You’re being rude and shouty. So’s Kat. You’ve been called out. You can keep being rude! No one is stopping or silencing you. But, you really are being rude. I don’t think telling you so is equivalent to the things you’re equating it to, but it’s okay if you do, because I’m still not trying to silence you. (Though, in all fairness, I do wish you’d stop.)

  72. February 25th, 2014 / 2:54 am Adam Robinson—

      I honestly believe Gene and the other contributors would appreciate hearing that — as evidenced by this very post, which outlines these changes. Right? Beyond that, I don’t see why you’re continuing this in the comments section.

      Maybe it’s past my bedtime.

  73. February 25th, 2014 / 2:54 am Amy Silbergeld—

      I have absolutely no interest in being polite to those who don’t deserve it when discussing topics this serious.

  74. February 25th, 2014 / 2:54 am Amy Silbergeld—

      “OH THESE RUDE SHOUTY WOMEN!!!!!” Boo hoo

  75. February 25th, 2014 / 2:54 am shaun gannon—

      I mean, really, with no specifics intended, more than 0% of the behavior I’ve seen in this thread alone has to be legitimately unhealthy. Not just the website itself, but let us all seek the self-improvement we deserve as humans

  76. February 25th, 2014 / 2:55 am Amy Silbergeld—

      Because there are good things here and bad things here. I think it’s important to address the bad things so that an effort can be made to stop them. That will leave the good things. Better for everyone.

  77. February 25th, 2014 / 2:55 am Amy Silbergeld—

      Ableist rhetoric thinly veiled

  78. February 25th, 2014 / 2:56 am Amy Silbergeld—

      Go ahead and call women crazy if you’re going to call women crazy

  79. February 25th, 2014 / 2:57 am Mike Meginnis—

      That’s fair, and to some extent I even agree, but again, no one is trying to silence you. They just don’t want to engage someone being this rude because they don’t feel that they’ll be treated fairly. You can talk to people any way you want, but your rhetorical choices (and the rapid fire of your comments) may discourage others from participating in the spirit of acceptance and chastisement you seek. But of course you know all that. You’re getting exactly what you want.

  80. February 25th, 2014 / 2:58 am Kat Dixon—

      The real rudeness is the refusal to accept responsibility for posts that are malicious toward women or to apologize for them. If what Amy or I have said is regarded as “rude” then so be it. It takes more than politeness to evoke change — especially when that change might benefit women.

  81. February 25th, 2014 / 2:59 am Kat Dixon—

      Actually, Gene did consciously attempt to silence me by calling me a troll and asking me to “stop trolling” when I had done nothing of the sort.

  82. February 25th, 2014 / 3:00 am shaun gannon—

      I think there are a) worse men than women in general and at this site specifically b) WAAAY more unhealthy behavior being exhibited from men than from women in both posts and comments on this site. feel free to attack me when i intentionally try to cover my ground through vagueness; i will instead be specific and say that every gender has done what i described above.

  83. February 25th, 2014 / 3:00 am Amy Silbergeld—

      The nature of my comments will alienate no one with whom I wish to associate in any way

  84. February 25th, 2014 / 3:01 am Mike Meginnis—

      My for real final word in this thread: criticizing your behavior (i.e., calling you a troll) is not the same as trying to silence you (which, as a moderator and webmaster, Gene could presumably actually do, and clearly hasn’t). There’s a lot you can legitimately criticize about this site and its culture but that’s not one of the things.

  85. February 25th, 2014 / 3:01 am Amy Silbergeld—

      In that case: non-sexist but still abelist rhetoric thinly veiled

  86. February 25th, 2014 / 3:02 am Gene Morgan—

      Wow. Again, please stop trolling. I’m on your side. Stop. Trolling. You are in full troll mode, trolling me into outer space. You’re trolling a person who just stood up and decided to do something about the things you have a problem with. You’re trolling a person by asking for a rape story. You’re trolling by bringing in racist undertones.

  87. February 25th, 2014 / 3:04 am Kat Dixon—

      Is “silence” too strong for you? Maybe try: discourage me from participating in the conversation.

  88. February 25th, 2014 / 3:04 am Amy Silbergeld—

      “You’re trolling by bringing in racist undertones.” = absolute reading comprehension fail.

      You are not on my side.

  89. February 25th, 2014 / 3:06 am Mike Meginnis—

      Okay, that’s fair. (But I don’t think you should participate either. You’re really bad at conversation.) (Goodnight.)

  90. February 25th, 2014 / 3:06 am Kat Dixon—

      Oh my lord. What have you done? You took down a post. Big deal. You haven’t accepted responsibility. You have made a public apology. When you do something to really address these issues, we can stop shouting. Until then, we’re reclaiming the space this site has told us isn’t ours.

  91. February 25th, 2014 / 3:07 am Gene Morgan—

      If I’m using my “but I have black friends!” card, I’m subconsciously a racist to anyone reading.

  92. February 25th, 2014 / 3:07 am Kat Dixon—

      True. But I’m really good at yelling until problems get fixed.

  93. February 25th, 2014 / 3:07 am shaun gannon—

      I stated that people deserve to be as mentally healthy as possible because I believe that is the strongest way to be happy and whole, and for others who disagree with me, I apologize, as I did not wish to force my mental outlook on any other individual who read my comment. There was no malice intended, and I regret if it was interpreted as such. I wish only the best to all, and will now recluse myself from this discussion to allow others to voice themselves. Thank you for allowing me to express myself in this space.

  94. February 25th, 2014 / 3:08 am Kat Dixon—

      You sure do make some slippery slope jumps in your assumptions, Gene.

  95. February 25th, 2014 / 3:08 am Amy Silbergeld—

      There really is something to be said for that.

  96. February 25th, 2014 / 3:09 am Gene Morgan—

      No, I just know how reading works.

  97. February 25th, 2014 / 3:10 am Amy Silbergeld—

      “I’m just NOT DUMB LIKE A GIRL”

  98. February 25th, 2014 / 3:10 am Kat Dixon—

      NOW I KNOW WHY HTMLGIANT DOESN’T HAVE TO BE CONSIDERATE TOWARD WOMEN! BECAUSE WOMEN CAN’T READ ANYWAY!

  99. February 25th, 2014 / 3:10 am mimi—

      hey, could you come over to my house and yell at my plumber?

  100. February 25th, 2014 / 3:10 am Amy McDaniel—

      That isn’t true. Gene’s post describes a HUGE change in HTMLGiant policy. HUGE. The open posting policy has long been a defining thing about this site and closing it will allow us to prevent posts like Janey’s from seeing the light of day. But that comes at an expense of contributors like me being able to post at will. I think it’s the right move, and it’s huge and constructive.

  101. February 25th, 2014 / 3:10 am Amy Silbergeld—

      Kat wins

  102. February 25th, 2014 / 3:11 am Amy Silbergeld—

      Your comments are looking more and more like MRA tweets. I’d slow down and consider your goals before you dig yourself a deeper hole.

  103. February 25th, 2014 / 3:11 am Kat Dixon—

      But it does not address the grievances already present. It’s a start, maybe, but it’s a damn small one. Especially in consideration of Gene’s comment denying responsibility for the previous post.

  104. February 25th, 2014 / 3:12 am Gene Morgan—

      The gender thing is on you.

  105. February 25th, 2014 / 3:12 am Amy Silbergeld—

      I think the primary problem is that Steven’s post was removed without statement and that Gene asserted that he, as an editor, is not responsible for content. I think it might have been more effective for him to apologize and say that the action he was taking was (identical to action being taken now). But the apology was crucial and it didn’t happen, and in fact he got defensive.

  106. February 25th, 2014 / 3:12 am Amy McDaniel—

      no it’s not, it’s huge! it is much bigger than one comment gene. it is taking responsibility through MAJOR ACTION.

  107. February 25th, 2014 / 3:13 am Kat Dixon—

      No, it’s on you. We know that because we’re good at reading.

  108. February 25th, 2014 / 3:13 am Amy Silbergeld—

      “Why do you have to make this a gender thing?” –every sexist ever in a poor attempt to defend himself

  109. February 25th, 2014 / 3:14 am Kat Dixon—

      Come on, Amy. I love you, but you’re so wrong here.

  110. February 25th, 2014 / 3:14 am Amy Silbergeld—

      Why don’t you just apologize for Steven’s post?

  111. February 25th, 2014 / 3:14 am Adam Robinson—

      Amy, I don’t exactly know what specifically is being discussed here (which is why I suggested emailing rather than using the comment thread), but I want you to know that I don’t think you were rude to me at all, and I appreciate that.

  112. February 25th, 2014 / 3:14 am Gene Morgan—

      Why are you mad anyway? I’m just arguing like I’d argue with anyone.

  113. February 25th, 2014 / 3:14 am Gene Morgan—

      Sorry about Steven’s post. I should have taken that down sooner.

  114. February 25th, 2014 / 3:15 am Amy McDaniel—

      Not responsible as in didn’t write it… not responsible in that PREVIOUSLY we could all post without editor approval but now we can’t, so that he now CAN be responsible. And how could he not get defensive when he’s being criticized left and right for something he didn’t write?

  115. February 25th, 2014 / 3:15 am Kat Dixon—

      We’re mad for the same reasons we’ve repeatedly told you.

  116. February 25th, 2014 / 3:15 am Amy Silbergeld—

      Well, it took a long time to get there.

  117. February 25th, 2014 / 3:16 am Gene Morgan—

      That I haven’t apologized for Steven’s stuff? Of course I’m sorry about that. I’d have been a lot quicker to take it down, but I didn’t have the guts to do it.

  118. February 25th, 2014 / 3:16 am Amy Silbergeld—

      I suggest you read back through the comments.

  119. February 25th, 2014 / 3:16 am Kat Dixon—

      He’s an editor, Amy. An editor is always responsible. No one accused him of writing the thing. And he was never criticized until he denied responsibility and then became defensive.

  120. February 25th, 2014 / 3:17 am Kat Dixon—

      Good boy. Now how about making that bigger and better and more public?

  121. February 25th, 2014 / 3:17 am Amy McDaniel—

      You actually can’t just say I’m wrong and have that mean anything. I’ve written for this site for over four years. I’ve devoted lots & lots of time to it. Gene is a wonderful person and has given me so much in the form of this site.

  122. February 25th, 2014 / 3:17 am Gene Morgan—

      I feel uncomfortable taking credit for things that I did not write, but you are correct, there is something I could have done. I could have taken it down sooner.

  123. February 25th, 2014 / 3:17 am Amy Silbergeld—

      Exactly. He (or Blake, or another editor) could have said “It’s the responsibility of an editor to make sure things like this don’t happen, and we apologize for allowing it to happen and not taking it down sooner.” That would have felt satisfying to me. That’s the absolute bottom line here.

  124. February 25th, 2014 / 3:18 am Gene Morgan—

      Can it be a tweet? That goes to 12,000 people?

  125. February 25th, 2014 / 3:18 am Amy Silbergeld—

      Why DID it take so long for you to take it down?

  126. February 25th, 2014 / 3:19 am Amy Silbergeld—

      It seems like it would be appropriate to add it as an addendum to the original post here.

  127. February 25th, 2014 / 3:19 am Kat Dixon—

      Well I’m glad for you. But when women say – as I’ve heard many many many women say – that this site makes them feel unwelcome, that’s something to be taken so seriously. And it hasn’t been.

  128. February 25th, 2014 / 3:19 am Amy Silbergeld—

      It might also be helpful to address why it was removed.

  129. February 25th, 2014 / 3:20 am Adam Robinson—

      The open posting policy here is what defined htmlgiant for many years.

  130. February 25th, 2014 / 3:20 am Gene Morgan—

      I have issues with taking ownership of the site. People have a huge amount of freedom around here, and have for years, so taking anything down is a major thing. We’ve taken like three or four posts down in six years.

  131. February 25th, 2014 / 3:21 am Amy Silbergeld—

      I would just like to echo that and state that the vast majority of my non-male friends do not feel that this is a safe place. It has a bit of a bad reputation, and it’s commonly thought of as an often-sexist site. I don’t think it’s irreparable, but it needs to be directly addressed.

  132. February 25th, 2014 / 3:21 am Kat Dixon—

      You should do it in every possible forum. So that it reaches all of your readers and potential readers.

  133. February 25th, 2014 / 3:21 am Amy Silbergeld—

      Then why on earth would you want to be an editor?

  134. February 25th, 2014 / 3:22 am Amy McDaniel—

      That is exactly what Gene is doing in this post. He’s addressing it. In a huge way.

  135. February 25th, 2014 / 3:23 am Kat Dixon—

      Exactly my question. In that case, you’re not an editor at all.

  136. February 25th, 2014 / 3:23 am Gene Morgan—

      I’ll address it all. Sorry for being a butthead. Please don’t be mean to me. I’m crying a little right now and tired.

  137. February 25th, 2014 / 3:24 am Amy Silbergeld—

      I’m sure you meant well. This site has become so hostile towards certain groups of people that it’s hard not to assume the worst about commenters in particular. I don’t think you intended to use abelist language but it did feel a bit hurtful. Just something to consider.

  138. February 25th, 2014 / 3:24 am Gene Morgan—

      Nobody has been an editor. That’s why me becoming an editor is a big deal. We’ve never edited. Ever.

  139. February 25th, 2014 / 3:24 am Kat Dixon—

      Welp. Look where that has gotten you. A damn sexist shit show.

  140. February 25th, 2014 / 3:25 am Amy Silbergeld—

      This is a great opportunity to improve the site, and I really really really really hope that’s what you choose to do.

  141. February 25th, 2014 / 3:25 am Gene Morgan—

      I know! We made some mistakes with personnel.

  142. February 25th, 2014 / 3:25 am Kat Dixon—

      Thank you, Gene, for finally deciding to do the right thing. It is much appreciated though it feels very hard-won.

  143. February 25th, 2014 / 3:27 am Amy Silbergeld—

      This is starting to feel very 2:30 AM-y (maybe it’s just me?) and I think it’s great that you see that mistakes have been made (not just by Steven in his one post) and I hope you have a strategy. I would HIGHLY suggest that you involve women at the highest level.

  144. February 25th, 2014 / 3:29 am Kat Dixon—

      I hope, in the future, that you will respond to gender-related criticism not as a threat but as genuine concern for the safe inclusion of all parties in this community. No woman should have to yell as loudly as Amy and I have tonight to be heard.

  145. February 25th, 2014 / 3:30 am Amy Silbergeld—

      If someone of a disadvantaged group that you aren’t a part of is telling you that you might be offending their group, or offending them specifically because they are part of that group, it’s almost always best to listen rather than talk.

  146. February 25th, 2014 / 3:37 am Gene Morgan—

      Completely agree. I see your point now, and again, apologize for not taking more responsibility.

  147. February 25th, 2014 / 3:39 am Kat Dixon—

      I for one will be looking forward to your statements. Hopefully in the light of a new day when we’re all rested.

  148. February 25th, 2014 / 3:42 am jereme_dean—

      lol

  149. February 25th, 2014 / 3:50 am Janey Smith—

      Amy McDaniel: I didn’t write the post under scrutiny. I reposted an article written by Mary Beard titled “On Rape.”

      I included photographs along with Beard’s article. The photographs were taken from opera, film, and art to draw attention to what I felt is the normalization of rape in the arts.

      When Amy Silbergeld initially commented on my post today she informed me that I had done a great job. She included in her comment that I should add a content warning.

      I agreed with Silbergeld and added a content warning at the top of the post with a short introduction.

      As a victim of rape myself, I was drawn to Beard’s account of her rape, which was non-traumatic. Although I know I was raped as a child, I was fortunate enough not to feel traumatized by it.

      Later in Beard’s article, Beard analyzes a book that attempts to make a biological case for rape. Beard deconstructs the book to such an extent that its arguments and ‘research’ fail on every level.

      Gene also commented on the post. I responded by informing him that I wanted a conversation not a controversy but I understood if a controversy developed and would try to make my best effort to keep it conversational.

      By the day’s end, Silbergeld was publicly accusing me of committing acts of rape, gaslighting, and abusing former girlfriends.

      I’m not sure where these accusations come from. Silbergeld and I were involved in a long distance telephonic courtship several years ago. I have always been supportive of her work. In fact, I recommended Silbergeld to Blake to become an HTMLGIANT contributor because I believe in Silbergeld’s work.

      I have contacted an attorney and am prepared to take on Silbergeld’s baseless online attacks.

  150. February 25th, 2014 / 3:53 am Gene Morgan—

      In my defense, I still think you were trolling me. Not that I didn’t deserve it, but it got very personal and ugly early-on. You’d say what you wanted to say, and then you’d throw in a jab. Very mean.

      But, I guess taken in the context of a man seemingly unwilling to admit he has power over abuse, it was probably justified. Just like, don’t make me cry again.

  151. February 25th, 2014 / 3:54 am Amy Silbergeld—

      Bring it on. Keep it the fuck away from the women you hurt–the woman you RAPED and the women you manipulated. They’ve suffered enough.

  152. February 25th, 2014 / 4:02 am Kat Dixon—

      No great change ever happened through politeness. I apologize if your feelings were hurt. What Amy I have done tonight was exactly what men have been doing on this site since its foundation. That is, drowning out female (and other diverse) voices – and complaints – by sheer volume. Again, I’m sorry if you felt that you became collateral damage. I hope that you will indeed do as you’ve said and admit fault, make necessary apologies, and take additional steps to ensure the ability of all women to participate safely in this environment so that we will never again have to resort to such tactics to have our grievances properly addressed.

  153. February 25th, 2014 / 4:05 am Kat Dixon—

      HTMLGIANT is very much a microcosm of the greater literary community, and if we can achieve safe and welcomed representation here, we have a better chance of doing so everywhere.

  154. February 25th, 2014 / 4:14 am Gene Morgan—

      Jesus. 154 comments.

  155. February 25th, 2014 / 4:46 am A D Jameson—

      Jesus, Gene, learn to fucking count. It’s 155.

  156. February 25th, 2014 / 4:49 am gogogadgetpoet—

      Holy shit man, this website is not ground zero for fighting misogyny in the literary world. I mean, I get that a lot of you know each other outside of this and you’re maybe using this website as a conduit to put people on blast to an audience who may not know what is up “behind the scenes” or whatever, but cot damn. Chill out. Instead of making your point you’re alienating people who may be receptive to what you’re trying to say. Coming from a guy who grew up in a house of women, who’s mom would tell em that if he didn’t make sure the back gate was locked, someone could come in and rape his mom and sister. I am always thinking about life from a female perspective, but ya’ll need to chill the fuck out and have some strategy to your attempts to evoke real change in the literary community. I get it — I see an issue with the treatment of under represented demographics, like how people of a certain complexion/background are missing from the ranks, etc, but I know getting more people from the hoods I know into the literary world isn’t going to start here even though I’ve been visiting this site since about a year after it started and I really dug it back then. I get it, that you feel a need to dive in because evoking change here would (you hope) start a chain reaction, a dialog. But fuck ya’ll. You’re making even one of the most tolerant and empathetic dudes in the world (talking about myself) look at you sideways like…. holy fuck.

  157. February 25th, 2014 / 5:23 am Brooks Sterritt—

      I don’t think enough people on this thread are saying how Gene is the best. Gene is the best.

  158. February 25th, 2014 / 8:24 am Amy Silbergeld—

      Tone policing bullshit. You’re not my ally, that’s for sure. We don’t need you.

  159. February 25th, 2014 / 9:38 am Kat Dixon—

      Every website is ground zero. There’s been no ground one. If you think there haven’t been “strategies” that out and out haven’t been received, you obviously don’t know the first thing about feminism or its history.

  160. February 25th, 2014 / 9:39 am Kat Dixon—

      But I see you’re “tolerant” so long as women don’t make too much noise.

  161. February 25th, 2014 / 9:45 am Usedtocould—

      Love that Gene is taking over, maybe I’ll start posting in public again. Too much unneeded drama lately.

  162. February 25th, 2014 / 10:25 am Amy Silbergeld—

      Hey Gene,

      I think everyone was pretty upset yesterday. I know I was. I listened to a woman describe a cycle of abuse that was strikingly similar to an abusive, traumatizing relationship that I was trapped in for quite some time. I was initially confused by Janey’s article, but began to feel more and more triggered by it–less the content itself and more what was enacted by using Mary Beard’s story. I felt, in a way, as though my own story had been taken from me, and as the day progressed and I spoke with these women the impact grew.

      I think that it’s great that you’ve taken it upon yourself to review posts. It would be great to know more about this: How will content be reviewed? Will you be fact checking? Making edits? Moderating comments? I think this could be a hugely positive move. There’s a lot of great content here. It’s a great site for lit news and the majority of the work showcased is excellent. This is an important platform for young, emerging writers and I want to feel safe here.

      The site has been criticized by many, as I’m sure you know, of being sexist. In a way, this came to a head yesterday. The post you (wisely) removed made a good number of people deeply uncomfortable. It seems like you’re sorry that it wasn’t removed more quickly, and of course you took the action if deleting it which was the right thing to do.

      This has been incredibly triggering and upsetting for me. I didn’t sleep at all last night and feel concerned for the safety of the women I spoke to and for my own wellbeing.

      I think that much of what happened yesterday in this comment thread was in reaction to the buildup of problematic content and comments (i.e. women being called bitches–I don’t mean disagreement, which is fine and even essential) and to Steven’s post. By stepping up to take the post down and post the above, you took on the burden of Steven’s mistakes and the (lesser, mostly) mistakes of others here in the past. Being a good editor is hard work. I messed up a lot with Death Hums, and I’m sure I’ll mess up again. It’s a difficult job.

      My only goal here is to communicate that I think the changes in the editing process should address, among other things, why women have felt unsafe here. I would like to see a formal apology on behalf of HTMLGIANT. I don’t imagine we’ll be seeing one from, Mr. Trull, but I think that this site can be better than him and acknowledge its missteps. This isn’t a you issue or a Blake issue or even a Steven issue; it’s a site-wide problem, or a number of site-wide problems. As stated above, I think this is absolutely an important space, which is why I have a stake in this.

      I’m sorry that the conversation resulted in hurt feelings on both sides and stirring up of past and present demons–again, for both sides, at least I think so. I hope that the site can move forward in a positive manner, and that’s surely something that I will consider as I write for the site in the future. There are lots of books and writers I’d like to post about. I think that with some changes this really can be basically the best lit blog around.

      –Amy

  163. February 25th, 2014 / 11:11 am mimi—

      i think that all that noise made last night was extremely well tolerated, and that you and amy should be extremely pleased that htmlgiant has allowed you this platform

      believe me, i do appreciate what you’re saying (in general, not to gogogadgetpoet) and what you’re doing

      but you and amy both seem slightly less than “tolerant” in kind

  164. February 25th, 2014 / 11:15 am Kat Dixon—

      You’re right. We’re not going to tolerate sexism, lack of acknowledgment of wrongdoing, or comments like “fuck y’all” when we’re attempting to speak on behalf of women’s safe participation in any community, and we should never be expected to.

  165. February 25th, 2014 / 11:21 am mimi—

      i gotta tell ya, i’ve been reading and commenting at htmlgiant practically daily for a pretty long time, and i’ve always felt pretty safe here, actually

      difference of perspective, difference of experience, i’d say

  166. February 25th, 2014 / 11:22 am Kat Dixon—

      How lucky for you.

  167. February 25th, 2014 / 11:25 am Amy Silbergeld—

      It’s difficult to keep calm about a subject that is deeply emotional and distressing for so many of us. There’s a big difference between intolerance of a marginalized group and intolerance or intolerance itself.

      I don’t think that this played out in a manner that was ideal for anyone. I was upset, Gene wrote that he was upset, and I imagine others were upset as well. At times, the tone wasn’t friendly from either side. However, I think that there was actually real resolution here and that what needed to be communicated was eventually communicated and that Gene understands why we were so troubled by the lack of public apology for Steven Trull’s/”Janey Smith’s” post.

      There was also buildup as a result of a number of problems with various misogynistic micro-(and sometimes macro-)aggressions on the site.

      Gene made the brave decision to step up and be the person to make this announcement. Because the initial post didn’t address the post “On Rape” or why it was removed, this is where questions and anger about that post landed. Being an editor means taking responsibility for the content on your site.

      Because there was no moderation at the time that Trull posted “On Rape,” Gene was not responsible for its content. He took it down, which was the right decision. He made some missteps in the comments and by making certain omissions in his initial post.

      It’s clear now that Gene means well, and that this was really just emotionally-charged for all involved which resulted in confusion, anger, and distress for, again, all involved.

      I don’t think that “tone policing” is respectful, but I do think that this escalated quickly into a conversation that was, again, distressing for all involved resulting in a conversation that for one wish could have played out in a more friendly friendly manner.

  168. February 25th, 2014 / 11:25 am mimi—

      i’ve heard this ‘luck’ card before

      but i don’t think it’s simply luck

      i have made good choices in my life about the people i associate with, i have always been extremely cautious when becoming involved in relationships with men…

      and i pass that on to my daughter*, and will continue to

      like i said, difference of perspective, difference of experience

      i’m truly sorry for the unhealthy and abusive encounters that some people have had to experience in their lives

      addendum: *and son

  169. February 25th, 2014 / 11:25 am Amy Silbergeld—

      That is not everyone’s experience, but I’m glad that it’s yours. I agree that it’s a difference of perspective and experience.

  170. February 25th, 2014 / 11:27 am traynor—

      Amy, You come across as a pushy, neurotic basketcase in these comments. Maybe try to chill a little. You kinda seem like you want to take over the entire conversation (and maybe this entire space?).

  171. February 25th, 2014 / 11:27 am Kat Dixon—

      Tolerance of content that is malicious toward women is not a different perspective. It’s a lack of perspective. Sorry.

  172. February 25th, 2014 / 11:31 am Amy Silbergeld—

      Given the nature of this conversation, I feel hurt by what seems like the implication that being cautious and making good decisions can protect us from harm.

      I was sexually abused at the age of 12 and this certainly wasn’t the result of poor decision making.

      I was later abused by a man who was a skilled manipulator. He was “vetted for”–went to a top school, presented himself as a nice person, and gave me no reason to believe he would become physically and verbally abusive.

      Again, I didn’t make a poor decision. I was manipulated by someone who I suspect is a sociopath.

      I later learned that he did the same to other strong, smart women. They didn’t make bad decisions either. They were victims.

      I wish that no one experienced abuse but, sadly, this isn’t the case, and I don’t think that anyone brings it on themselves. It seems like that should be understandable to anyone, if nothing else then in the case of children who are abused.

  173. February 25th, 2014 / 11:32 am mimi—

      there is plenty of ‘content’ out in the world that i can not tolerate, and that i work to end, every day

      i work with marginalized and dis-enfranchised populations in very rough neighborhoods, five days a week

      i just haven’t come across any ‘content’ (on either side, i might add) which i find intolerable here

  174. February 25th, 2014 / 11:34 am Kat Dixon—

      Hence why I called you lucky. Ignorance is bliss after all.

  175. February 25th, 2014 / 11:34 am mimi—

      i understand

      i was simply telling ‘my story’, not yours

      and i don’t want my life to be reduced simply to ‘being lucky’

  176. February 25th, 2014 / 11:34 am deadgod—

      Pretty sure I’m not responsible for even 100.

  177. February 25th, 2014 / 11:36 am Amy Silbergeld—

      You have no responsibility to consider how the content has been hurtful to many, because you didn’t post it. Even those who posted it have no real responsibility to know, or care, who it has hurt.

  178. February 25th, 2014 / 12:02 pm mimi—

      are you calling me ignorant?
      are you calling me blissful?

  179. February 25th, 2014 / 12:06 pm Amy Silbergeld—

      As for the Janey/Steven side of this, Gene thought that it wasn’t great timing to publish this now–and I agree, and would like my next contribution to be about something that makes me excited about lit. I did feel it needed to be shared publicly, so here it is for those who wish to read it:

      http://thelastwomensmagazine.com/who-is-janey-smith/

  180. February 25th, 2014 / 12:13 pm Dena Rash Guzman—

      This is Gene’s first day. Please give him a minute.

  181. February 25th, 2014 / 12:15 pm mimi—

      personally, i think it “played out” just fine

      there was definitely progress, if not complete resolution – this will be an on-going discussion, i believe

      please don’t include me in the “all” that are confused, angry or distressed – i am none of these

      personally, i think it all played out in a friendly-enough friendly manner

  182. February 25th, 2014 / 12:18 pm Amy Silbergeld—

      I apologize for not being more clear. By “all” I meant myself, Gene, and Kat.

  183. February 25th, 2014 / 12:21 pm markbaumer—

      jesus…180+ comments…what’s wrong with you people

  184. February 25th, 2014 / 12:31 pm Daniel Romo—

      I teach high school and sometimes during breaks I sneak in here to read, and I come to find this. Good luck, Principal Morgan.

  185. February 25th, 2014 / 12:38 pm Blake Butler—

      it’s not a site wide problem. your viewpoint doesn’t automatically become everyone’s, i’m sorry. there have been a handful of posts that shouldn’t have gone up, and did so because i wrongly assumed all people (contributors and audience alike) are capable of empathy, benefit of the doubt, academic difference, and anti-ego, and because of the open-door policy of posting here. despite my probably-too-open-idea-of-economy-of-ideas-not-wholly-obviously-straighfaced, i regret having let posts that distract from the point of this site, that have made others come to assume the worst at all possible points, even in the face of someone trying assert they are looking to eliminate what has caused outrage, but i do not regret the rest of it. i welcome anyone who is always going to assume the worst of a source to not partake of the source. and i welcome people everyone else to do whatever they want, with the assumption they can be kind. this site is a site about literature and art. where we’ve veered off from that, we will be veering back.

  186. February 25th, 2014 / 12:41 pm Amy Silbergeld—

      This post would have felt validating and responsible if it weren’t for this:

      “it’s not a site wide problem. your viewpoint doesn’t automatically become everyone’s, i’m sorry.”

      I clearly understand that this is not how everyone feels. However, many other women, in comments all over posts on this site and on multiple other platforms, have expressed similar. That constitutes a site-wide problem.

      There have been other issues with contributors in the past. This isn’t the first misstep on the site. You seem to acknowledge this above, but also to refute it by saying:

      “it’s not a site wide problem. your viewpoint doesn’t automatically become everyone’s, i’m sorry.”

  187. February 25th, 2014 / 12:42 pm deadgod—

      I’d meant to ask whether Beard had asked that her diary entry not be used in the way it was, and I see from Gene Morgan’s comments that that wasn’t the case.

      Concerning the effective histories of sexual violence and misogyny, I have no bona fides except what accrues to the rationality of my perspective, and respect the rationality of neither argumenta ad hominem nor ab auctoritate. Saying ‘I know what I know’ means nothing to me as an argument, whatever it reveals personally.

      It’s valuable, in coming to an understanding of expressions, provisionally to determine whether an expression works more to achieve impersonal justice or to accumulate personal power. That would be a judgement of reason which unhappily doesn’t avail itself of a universal logical grasp, but which nevertheless is more reasonable or less reasonable.

      Are the arguments for action on behalf of ‘women’s safety’ on this thread really oriented and moving towards that universally beneficial goal? Has getting rid of Janey Smith’s provocative appropriation really accomplished more safety for women?

      “Trolling” is ‘speaking to cause distress in disregard of topicality’. Responding to (sometimes only perceived) hostility with hostility is not trolling–it’s fighting; I’ve done that here somewhat and been wrongly called a ‘troll’ for it. Lazy people believe stupid things that make them feel stronger.

      Calling someone a troll to control their criticism of you is not ‘silencing’ them, necessarily. Putting your fingers in your ears silences no one else, nor does joining a crowd of self-deafeners that doesn’t have the power to silence.

      I don’t think ‘freedom of speech’ is well-understood or cared-for among progressive communities that mis-privilege identity. Blockheadedness in conservatism is almost exclusive; it sucks to see it on the nominal Left.

  188. February 25th, 2014 / 12:43 pm Amy Silbergeld—

      And is this:

      “i welcome anyone who is always going to assume the worst of a source to not partake of the source”

      meant to communicate that I am no longer invited to post here?

  189. February 25th, 2014 / 12:45 pm Blake Butler—

      i wasn’t looking to validate anyone. i was expressing my viewpoint. i gave you open access, amy, to post here the same as anyone, as a contributor, because i have good faith (or try to) in people of the arts (sometimes incorrectly), which includes you. and i don’t think the way you are approaching gene’s attempt to correct what’s been done too loosely here in the past is fair, or even okay. positivity goes a long way.

  190. February 25th, 2014 / 12:49 pm Amy Silbergeld—

      Have you read my posts today? I have expressed that I care about this site and have vested interested in its improvement. I wrote this:

      “I think everyone was pretty upset yesterday. I know I was. I listened to a woman describe a cycle of abuse that was strikingly similar to an abusive, traumatizing relationship that I was trapped in for quite some time. I was initially confused by Janey’s article, but began to feel more and more triggered by it–less the content itself and more what was enacted by using Mary Beard’s story. I felt, in a way, as though my own story had been taken from me, and as the day progressed and I spoke with these women the impact grew.

      I think that it’s great that you’ve taken it upon yourself to review posts. It would be great to know more about this: How will content be reviewed? Will you be fact checking? Making edits? Moderating comments? I think this could be a hugely positive move. There’s a lot of great content here. It’s a great site for lit news and the majority of the work showcased is excellent. This is an important platform for young, emerging writers and I want to feel safe here.

      The site has been criticized by many, as I’m sure you know, of being sexist. In a way, this came to a head yesterday. The post you (wisely) removed made a good number of people deeply uncomfortable. It seems like you’re sorry that it wasn’t removed more quickly, and of course you took the action if deleting it which was the right thing to do.

      This has been incredibly triggering and upsetting for me. I didn’t sleep at all last night and feel concerned for the safety of the women I spoke to and for my own wellbeing.

      I think that much of what happened yesterday in this comment thread was in reaction to the buildup of problematic content and comments (i.e. women being called bitches–I don’t mean disagreement, which is fine and even essential) and to Steven’s post. By stepping up to take the post down and post the above, you took on the burden of Steven’s mistakes and the (lesser, mostly) mistakes of others here in the past. Being a good editor is hard work. I messed up a lot with Death Hums, and I’m sure I’ll mess up again. It’s a difficult job.

      My only goal here is to communicate that I think the changes in the editing process should address, among other things, why women have felt unsafe here. I would like to see a formal apology on behalf of HTMLGIANT. I don’t imagine we’ll be seeing one from Mr. Trull, but I think that this site can be better than him and acknowledge its missteps. This isn’t a you issue or a Blake issue or even a Steven issue; it’s a site-wide problem, or a number of site-wide problems. As stated above, I think this is absolutely an important space, which is why I have a stake in this.

      I’m sorry that the conversation resulted in hurt feelings on both sides and stirring up of past and present demons–again, for both sides, at least I think so. I hope that the site can move forward in a positive manner, and that’s surely something that I will consider as I write for the site in the future. There are lots of books and writers I’d like to post about. I think that with some changes this really can be basically the best lit blog around.”

      I’ve also contacted Gene directly to apologize for what I felt to be some unnecessary and unkind statements on my behalf.

      You haven’t addressed my question regarding my standing with the site.

  191. February 25th, 2014 / 12:54 pm Blake Butler—

      cool. thank you for thinking further. i was so bogged down by the onslaught above it that i was skimming by the time i reached the bottom. i appreciate you getting in touch with gene. there’s just not enough time in the world for hell on a blog. as for your standing, i would still like to see you write posts about literature and culture. ultimately it’s gene’s gig now, but he and i see eye to eye. i think we’re mainly concerned with going back to focusing on art, not social topics. though of course there will be a bleed. if you would like to be a part of that, i would like you to be a part of that. good faith is required.

  192. February 25th, 2014 / 12:59 pm Amy Silbergeld—

      I would be happy to write about books (as I wrote about those forthcoming by Lisa Marie Basile and Leah Umansky) for this site.

      As mentioned above, I think that adding moderation was a good decision and I believe that this site can and will be excellent if it veers back on course–and it seems like you and Gene intend to make sure it does that.

  193. February 25th, 2014 / 1:04 pm Melissa—

      Why did you take it down?

  194. February 25th, 2014 / 1:08 pm Melissa—

      You guys come across as cornering Amy. Why don’t you answer her questions without insulting her?

  195. February 25th, 2014 / 1:09 pm Caketrain—

      Anyone read any good books lately?

  196. February 25th, 2014 / 1:11 pm Melissa—
    • February 25th, 2014 / 1:35 pm Quincy Rhoads—

        SCARECRONE

    • February 25th, 2014 / 1:35 pm Quincy Rhoads—

        Everybody should stop posting on this thread and go read Melissa Broder’s new book.

        So good.

    • February 25th, 2014 / 2:11 pm lorian long—

        dear amy silbergeld plz stop treating good nice people like dogshit

    • February 25th, 2014 / 3:37 pm anonymous—

        I am choosing to stay anonymous here because I am really shocked at the
        discourse that has unfolded, and as a human (though I am female, which
        seems to give me some automatic credit [which, by the way, is an actual
        example of the “I have black friends” mentality], but I am also certain
        that my gender will be questioned; so I’ll state again, that I may feel
        more safe, I am a woman). The people I feel unsafe from are Amy
        Silbergeld and Kat Dixon. To call them trolls is too light—I perceive
        them both as bullies. You’ve treated Gene Morgan with cruelty and tried
        to violate his privacy. I’d like to pick through each example, but my
        neck is already tense from reading, beginning to end, how you two have
        zig-zagged, back tracked, and contradicted arguments that were weak to
        begin with. So I’ll choose one from Kat, “Using your wife and daughter
        as pawns to prove your acknowledgement of
        the existence of rape is an emotional tactic used to deflect from the actual
        conversation.” First of all, Gene has not once strayed from the
        argument; he consistently makes specific points and provides examples.
        So it’s humorous that you two should accuse him of deflecting. It’s a
        projection of your own threadbare argument, and if you’d like to
        understand how I came to that conclusion, then I’d suggest you read over
        your own comments as a practice in critical reading. Second of all, to
        demean and humiliate a man who expresses his stake in protecting women
        against rape is incredibly irresponsible and reductive. Now, I know none
        of you. I have no dog in this fight. I do think it was wrong of Janey
        Smith to re-publish Beard’s article without her permission, and that the
        editors responded appropriately. This here is in response to the
        discourse that unfolded above. My advice to you both: Empathy,
        compassion, and sensitivity are perpetuated through example. You’ve shown
        none of that. You’ve created such a space of attack and violation, that I
        actually spent a minute contemplating whether I should share my own
        rape history to have my point better heard. I feel nauseously exposed
        even admitting that contemplation. This is a space created by you, Kat and Amy.
        Not Gene. Not Amy McDaniel. The original conversation seems to have
        ended last night, and I do feel bad, for Gene’s sake, if I start it up
        again. But I couldn’t keep silent while listening to you two run
        roughshod on someone who doesn’t deserve it. I don’t intend to have a
        conversation here. I likely won’t respond to either of you, because I
        don’t want to be the recipient of your abuse or provocation. This post
        really isn’t for either of you, but rather to have another side of this
        argument represented on the thread.

    • February 25th, 2014 / 3:38 pm Caketrain—

        I love the look of Scare Crone. And the name.

    • February 25th, 2014 / 3:42 pm Caketrain—

        Elizabeth Mikesch is very in charge of the sound a sentence makes in her new book. and that Jason Schwartz book is really good. so here’s to those.

    • February 25th, 2014 / 4:16 pm reynard seifert—

        ‘good boy’? wtf

    • February 25th, 2014 / 4:38 pm Melissa—

        I’m an outsider wondering how to think of this website now. I think that Amy is right to have lingering questions. But maybe, as an outsider, I fail to grasp the complex dynamic playing out here.
        “On Rape” was allowed to appear for a few days. The article appears to have done some damage. But now it and the reactions to it are not posted.
        This editor was yesterday or the day before publicly encouraging the person who posted “On Rape” to “have the conversation you want to have.”

        It appears there is the suggestion that Amy owes gratitude to people here, and should write her comments accordingly. It seems like many people are saying that comments should be likable and fun, while not being overly emotional. Is that true?

        Are you saying that you just don’t like certain people, and wish they would not comment on your internet website?

    • February 25th, 2014 / 4:53 pm Kat Dixon—

        This is ultimately the laziest response. The gender-problem IS a site-wide problem, and denying responsibility doesn’t fix it. Nor does redirecting attention away from it. Nor does accusing those who recognize it of only seeing and/or looking for the worst in things.

    • February 25th, 2014 / 5:00 pm Gene Morgan—

        That is not what I said. Also, you are taking my quote out of context.

        Here’s the full paragraph:

        “A little context goes a long way on this site. I know it’s impossible to completely avoid controversy when addressing a difficult subject matter, but framing your discussion properly makes it easier for readers to stay on topic and have the conversation you want to have.”

        People are free to comment how they want to. And Amy owes me nothing, personally.

        I owe the site and Amy an explanation and apology for the post, and it’s on the way. I just have to pack some flannel and get on an airplane first.

    • February 25th, 2014 / 5:09 pm Melissa—

        Yes, and the surrounding context is gone too.

    • February 25th, 2014 / 7:18 pm FormerRaptorFrankTas—

        “My advice to you both: Empathy,
        compassion, and sensitivity are perpetuated through example.”

        Amen.

        My favorite part about commenting on HTMLGiant? That the most well thought-out comments are selectively avoided by those they choose to confront

    • February 25th, 2014 / 7:36 pm mimi—

        tolerance is not the same as agreement or acceptance
        nor is it the same as silence
        and please, allow me my perspective, which I am perfectly able to express when and as I choose

    • February 25th, 2014 / 9:27 pm Janice Lee—

        I almost never comment here, but I feel like I have to say something. I’m not sure why Gene is getting picked on in this way.

        First, thanks to those who, here, and in past conversations of controversy, have called out the work I’m doing here as positive. It is hugely nice to see efforts being appreciated and supported.

        Second, here and in past weeks, if certain female readers and others are so disturbed by what’s happening on htmlgiant, I’m not sure why they continue to keep reading and coming back. No one is forcing anyone to read this site. I don’t read Fox News. I don’t participate in their comment threads either.

        I’m not comparing htmlgiant to fox news, but maybe it has reached that level of hatred for some people. Anyone has a right to any opinion. I don’t deny that some stupid shit has gone down. People are allowed to make mistakes. People are allowed to try and make things better. I think good intentions should be thanked and appreciated, not beaten down. Change doesn’t have to be immediate and total.

        As an editor of many things, I don’t agree that editors are COMPLETELY responsible for EVERYTHING. This seems like an impossible expectation. Editors are responsible: yes. Authors and contributors are responsible: yes. Readers are also responsible. But no one is COMPLETELY responsible for EVERYTHING. I’m not a fan of impossible expectations. This seems unproductive. Let’s have productive conversations with each other as human beings instead of beating each other up and asking for things that are impossible. Let’s really, really, really try and empathize with each other (empathy is crucial) instead of just yelling at each other to fix problems. Yelling doesn’t fix problems. This seems like a kid throwing a tantrum until they get their way. Sure you got your ice cream this time, but that doesn’t really get us world peace or anything.

        I want to say that despite what has been happening here with some content that shouldn’t have gone up, I think the original mission and model that Blake Butler started here is admirable. Blake put his faith in contributors and authors and readers when most sites become so highly policed that genuineness is sometimes hard to find. This was both the best and worst of htmlgiant.

        There are some things that should not be said, yes. But avoiding controversy for the sake of being safe, too, can be dangerous.

        What is the point of a literary community if we can’t talk to each other? We don’t have to agree, we don’t have to like each other. We all fuck up and make mistakes and say stupid shit. But seriously, being a writer is a pretty miserable, lonely existence. Let’s just talk. Let’s make mistakes and apologize. Let’s break a chair and then sing a song. Let’s kiss and make up. Let’s get drunk and sleep on the street and not remember the next year. Let’s collaborate on new projects and move forward. Let’s look into each other’s eyes as human beings and not just at the screen and scream virtual profanities at each other. We don’t have to all get along. But we don’t have to be so hateful either.

        If someone makes a mistake, let them learn. Teaching moment. Yelling at someone is not teaching. Yelling at someone doesn’t make it any better, actually, I’m pretty sure it makes it worse. The gender problem, the sex problem, the rape problem, the identity problem, the ___ problem, yelling just polarizes the issues. We don’t need more polarization. We need more understanding and empathy.

        If you want to be far away from this, then be far away. Just go away. You don’t have to be here. If you’re going to stick around, then help us all out. Let’s all help each other out.

        What is wrong with failure? Failure is where real shit happens. All language is failure. It’s because language fails, that we have literature. The greatest attempts might be failures. Let people fail and learn. Successes are boring. Successes are safe.

        Go ahead and rip this comment apart. I’m sure it will happen. But hell if I wasn’t going to say something.

        Thanks Gene. Thanks Blake. Thanks to others.

    • February 25th, 2014 / 9:35 pm Janice Lee—

        Thanks Gene :)

    • February 25th, 2014 / 10:13 pm traynor—

        Which one? She’s posted at least 40.

    • February 26th, 2014 / 12:02 am Molly Brodak—

        Awesome. Civil, smart, true.

    • February 26th, 2014 / 2:19 am Yeezus—

        wow 1st world problems. too bad enslaved sex workers can’t comment here about not being represented in this web zine

    • February 26th, 2014 / 3:43 pm Melissa—

        I am genuinely wondering still, out of curiosity and maybe a misplaced zeal to participate and find answers. I know that safety and comfort can be complaisant and that for many it is worth the risk to push the boundaries. That can be a payoff. At the same time, though, it’s important to think about whether one person can derive true benefit from something that gives other people flashbacks and bad dreams and panic attacks. I have lingering questions about whether people here agree with that statement even though the offending post was taken down. I know, I can go be far away; I know I don’t have to be here. I think that almost everyone who participated in this conversation though seems to have genuinely cared about it. Also, I hope I can honestly say that I am commenting from a genuine desire to understand (although my ignorance and persistence here might be rather annoying). From your comment, it seems as if you want to stress that people here should not only care about the issues, but about each other. I think I support that statement, at least in part, but this raises some questions for me, too. Is HTML giant part of the public sphere, or is it more of a group or community? It seems that there is a call for a commitment to boundary pushing that, obviously, not everyone here supports: others made it loudly known that they had felt violated by what others saw as liberating. However, it seems by your comment that HTML giant is not a public space, but more of a community, so that its boundary pushing is not meant to impact people who are not supportive of its aims. Further, it seems that those who were outraged and demanding change were seen as intruders who had no business here. I’m not trying to be controversial or to pick your comment apart. I’m genuinely interested and I hope I am not disrespecting you.

    • February 26th, 2014 / 6:55 pm Chase—

        In a way, the open posting policy in place since the humble beginnings of the site can be seen as analogous to the founding of our country:
        not wanting it’s rules and values to be lorded over by the British crown, the 13 original colonies broke free from the governing power across the pond, and did so for more reasons than the bullshit about the tea taxes.
        They wanted political freedom and that of the press and religion (sexy forest parties away from the prying eyes of the Puritans).
        This group of writers has the capacity and this forum for debate, and therfore, each are responsible for their own individual public image.
        I see htmlg as not the type of forum that requires a managing editor who can strip publishing powers, when that public persona can simply turn to the forums and still have their voice heard.
        See this is the kind of controversy that drives up site views and value for any advertisers.
        That at least is positive, we need to keep arguing, my bitches.

    • February 26th, 2014 / 8:43 pm Gene Morgan—

        I don’t plan on editing with a heavy hand, if that’s something people are worried about.

        I have an undergraduate degree from a city college, which is enough to understand that many of the people that contribute to this site are beyond my level of intellect and talent. I don’t want to limit them.

    • February 26th, 2014 / 9:25 pm mimi—

        dear gene morgan,
        some years ago, an innocent, naive, yet earnest ivy leaguer, i graduated with a double major in biochemistry and comparative literature, virulently disappointed that triple majors were not yet offered… errgggh!

        my graduate work in geology taught me patience; and in neuro-surgery, attention to minutiae

        and yet, despite strident attempts, i do not understand all of deadgod’s fine and erudite comments

        and yet, i abide

        and i do not worry; please, do not worry –

        you will be great! you will do great! i believe that!

    • February 27th, 2014 / 9:30 am Reviewing The VIDA Count and The Sexism It Misses | The Outlet: the Blog of Electric Literature—

        […] came under fire from women who felt manipulated or disturbed by it. As a result, the editors also announced a change in their review process, which will include more editorial […]

    • February 27th, 2014 / 12:46 pm ZZZZZIPPP—

        MIMI EVERY MORNING ZZZZIPPP WAKES AND STARES AT A BANK OF PERIODICALLY REFRESHING COMPUTER SCREENS CONTAINING DEADGOD COMMENTS DATING BACK TO DEADGOD’S FIRST APPEARANCE ON THE WEBSITE AND ZZZIPP DOES ARM CURLS WITH ALTERNATING HANDS WHILE USING HIS OTHER TO CONSULT REFERENCE MATERIAL ALL AS A MEANS OF ESTABLISHING OR NOURISHING A FEELING OF COMPLETE UNCERTAINTY AND EXISTENTIAL DREAD

        DESPITE THIS PRACTICE ZZZZZZZIPPP IS NOT EVEN A LITTLE BIT GOOD AT ARM CURLS

    • February 27th, 2014 / 12:47 pm Mark Cugini—

        aww, zip :(

    • February 27th, 2014 / 1:01 pm ZZZZZIPPP—

        OH MARK IT’S NOT THAT BAD AFTERWARDS ZZZZZIPP EATS AN ENTIRE PIZZA PIE AND HANGS OUT WITH SOME PRETTY DECENT PHOTONS FLOATING IN THE AIR ABOVE AN EXTINCT VOLCANO

    • February 27th, 2014 / 2:48 pm Mark Cugini—

        aw, zip! hit me up next time! we can tweet @ deadgod from a nimbus cloud! :)

    • February 27th, 2014 / 3:05 pm deadgod—

        MY QUANTUM CURLING INFORMATION IS BADLY OUT OF DATE AND WAS NEVER BETTER THAN SKETCHY BUT IT IS THAT PHOTONS CURL around ARMS OF ANY MASS AT ALL

        MY EXPERIENCE HAS BEEN THAT PHOTONS TRAVELING FROM CERTAIN SOURCES CAN CURL TOES AND FOR THE TOES THAT IS SOMETHING TO LOOK FORWARD TO

    • February 27th, 2014 / 8:11 pm mimi—

        dear zippy,
        many an alone-but-not-lonely hour have i spent consulting reference material due to a deadgod comment – there are more than a few ways (ivy league, grad school) to get an education, aren’t there! more than just a few, narrow paths to enlightenment

        as for that “FEELING OF COMPLETE UNCERTAINTY AND EXISTENTIAL DREAD” you mention, here’s a little song for you

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNNxeovdN5U

        whatever gets you to the light, it’s alright, alright

    • February 27th, 2014 / 8:14 pm Richard Grayson—

        I have just seen this post, and while I think it’s great, it’s hard to understand that it has 224 comments. I’ll keep this page loaded and if I have bad insomnia during the night, maybe I’ll try to read some of them.

    • February 27th, 2014 / 8:16 pm mimi—

        you’re gonna want a cached version, not the present one that reads like one of those ‘government documents’ with 75% of the juicy stuff blocked out with wide swaths of black Magic Marker

        i’ve got it cached on my iPad at home, errr, not on my laptop

    • February 28th, 2014 / 1:27 am shaun gannon—

        what if… what if deadgod and zip are the same person…

    • February 28th, 2014 / 1:28 am shaun gannon—

        …and theyre both ph madore

    • February 28th, 2014 / 1:28 am shaun gannon—

        no, they’re both ron silliman

    • February 28th, 2014 / 2:53 am Jeremy Hopkins—

        Never heard of them. Avatar fame eclipses reality, if only in particular certain arenas, like an umbrella rather than the moon.

    • February 28th, 2014 / 5:25 pm ZZZZZIPPP—

        HEY MARK ZZZZIPP WILL DO THAT IT SOUNDS REALLY GOOD

    • February 28th, 2014 / 5:29 pm ZZZZZIPPP—

        THANK YOU MIMI ZZZZIPPP WILL ADD THAT SONG TO HIS MORNING ROUTINE AT LEAST UNTIL HE HAS LEARNED ALL HE CAN FROM IT

    • February 28th, 2014 / 5:30 pm ZZZZZIPPP—

        HI SHAUN ZZZZIPP IS PRETTY SURE THAT IS NOT THE CASE

        BUT WHO KNOWS MAYBE ZZZIPP IS SHAUN GANNON HAVE YOU EVER THOUGHT OF THAT

    • February 28th, 2014 / 10:39 pm shaun gannon—

        ………………………………………….whoa

        my brain is leaking from my nose