Wordhustler is your pimp
“Submit to Over 4,000 Literary Markets Without Leaving Your Desk” is WordHustler‘s tag-line. Basically, from what I can gather without actually signing up for an account (scary!), this is the match.com of the literary world: you make yourself seem as unrealistically attractive as possible for daunting goals, give them your credit card number, and wait in desperation.
Hey I’m just a joker with a day-job, check out what the writer of freakin’ The Bourne Identity says:
“The only thing I don’t like about WordHustler is that it wasn’t around when I was getting started. I can only lament the countless hours I spent grappling with commerce when I could’ve been focusing on art.”
— William Blake Herron, Screenwriter of The Bourne Identity
Haha! You started saying one thing, but then switched it! That’s like when Jason Bourne says he’s going to Berlin but goes to Hamburg!
They also have this nifty diagram of a SASE citing attributes such as the stamps. Who is stupid? Us or them? Somebody is stupid and I demand to know who it is.
It’s nine bucks for a 50 pg. submission — they better lace each page with LSD or at least extra virgin olive oil. Self-described ‘brain-children’ (founders) J. Singleton and A. Walls call themselves ‘cultural insurgents,’ which has about as much revolutionary grit as buying a Bob Marley CD on Amazon. Oh God, I sound bitter. Just surf the site yourself and get pissed. It’s fun.
Probably the worst in all this Faustian biznatch is that they peddle their writers/clients by having them solicit other peers/writers in order to accrue credit on their account. Every referral is worth one dollar.
Their blog has banner pics of (distinctively): Los Angeles, New York, Scotch & Gin, Urban graffiti, rural trees at dusk — covering all possible demographics. I can just imagine marketing consultants hovered over a table trying to get inside our heads. They seem so eager about the numbers, I wonder where’s the room for letters, you know, the ones that make up words like E-X-P-L-O-I-T-E-D.
With match.com, the goal is to get married. With WordHustler, the goal is to get published. I’ll save you the suspense: no one is getting head, no one is getting ahead, respectively.
Tags: wordhustler
thats funny….they went with the guy who didn’t get asked to script the following sequels…. now if this was Tony Gilroy, I’d perk my ears up…
thats funny….they went with the guy who didn’t get asked to script the following sequels…. now if this was Tony Gilroy, I’d perk my ears up…
okay, after looking up the site…. i can ask — what’s the big deal… with you.
This site is genius. When you calculate a few things in, in the long run I think this saves you money. In all regards of the process.
Where’s the problem? Is this part of the writing ritual? Packaging and sending submissions?
okay, after looking up the site…. i can ask — what’s the big deal… with you.
This site is genius. When you calculate a few things in, in the long run I think this saves you money. In all regards of the process.
Where’s the problem? Is this part of the writing ritual? Packaging and sending submissions?
“somebody is stupid and i demand to know who it is.” this seems very close to what i tell myself each morning when i rise
“somebody is stupid and i demand to know who it is.” this seems very close to what i tell myself each morning when i rise
So I went to the “agents” part of their site and found this:
“Beginning May 1, 2009, the Dijkstra Agency will respond ONLY to unsolicited submissions in which we are interested. Unsolicited submissions in which we are not interested will receive no response. (Therefore, please do not enclose a self addressed stamped envelope (SASE), and do not send any pages or material you need returned to you.) Response time to all submissions is 6-8 weeks.”
Dijkstra is the real deal. Or was, when I worked in publishing eons ago. Now, does this mean one has to sign up with wordhustler to submit an unsolicited ms to her? Granted, it’s really early in the morning, I’m super high of coffee, and very disappointed to not be running due to shitass weather. But if this is what wordhustler is doing- getting exclusive relations with agents- that bums me out.
Anyway, I noticed that their “markets” include lots of prizes and all sorts of stuff. But this agent-exclusive thing made me sad.
Also, “in which we are interested”? Does that mean wordhustler can reject you? I don’t get it. Services usually don’t reject writers- um, cause then they make less money. Anyway, I maybe misread this??!!! Help.
Oh My God. Caffeine. It means that Dijstra will only respond to things she’s interested in- therefore no rejection letters. I hate my brain. Anyway, sorry for the post above. I’m going to go eat something now.
That said, there is another site called Writer’s Relief that I thought about using for a few seconds… And honestly, I felt that when I do go through phases, and it is very phasey for me, of submitting work, I like the process. I like tailoring each cover letter to the journal, or agent, or whatever. I don’t send out blindly anymore and so it seems helpful for me to be involved in each submission.
Here is my question. If an agent or magazine or whatever, gets a submission from one of these places, does that affect thier reception of it? I wonder. Maybe not.
pr- I would be willing to *bet* that when an agent or magazine gets a submission from one of these places, it gets deleted unread. It’s just a scam to take your money. Anything that promises to “do the legwork” of “getting published” for you is a scam. Always always always. I just can’t stress that enough.
4000 “markets”? They don’t exist. These guys take your cash, and send copies of your fiction to Architectural Digest and Women’s Running, then let you wonder why it didn’t work out.
Their motto is “One Click to Destiny” for Christ’s sake. They’re not selling a product, they’re selling an idea–a really shitty idea.
pr- I would be willing to *bet* that when an agent or magazine gets a submission from one of these places, it gets deleted unread. It’s just a scam to take your money. Anything that promises to “do the legwork” of “getting published” for you is a scam. Always always always. I just can’t stress that enough.
4000 “markets”? They don’t exist. These guys take your cash, and send copies of your fiction to Architectural Digest and Women’s Running, then let you wonder why it didn’t work out.
Their motto is “One Click to Destiny” for Christ’s sake. They’re not selling a product, they’re selling an idea–a really shitty idea.
I read a submission once for Bhouse from a similar service (seemingly). It was weird. It looked like an agented thing, kinda, if the agent was on like her first day on the job. So I googled and seemed like a sub service. Not the worst story but not that good either. I felt bad for the writer, since presumably he’d paid to have his work submitted to a mag that doesn’t even pay (except in love, and of course crazy prestige).
I read a submission once for Bhouse from a similar service (seemingly). It was weird. It looked like an agented thing, kinda, if the agent was on like her first day on the job. So I googled and seemed like a sub service. Not the worst story but not that good either. I felt bad for the writer, since presumably he’d paid to have his work submitted to a mag that doesn’t even pay (except in love, and of course crazy prestige).
im kinda assuming that the legwork of getting published was done by writing and fully editing and then researching the market…
i’d relate this to those cups of gatoraide or a really nice pair of running shoes that help get everything done than anything else.
im too lazy to return to the website, but i thought it was like, you find the markets, decide which ones to submit too, then you package everything and then they send it off for you….
if this is not the case, if it isn’t like duotrope, only where they also send out the work for the market of your choosing, then i just came upon a great idea that i must go copyright like right now.
because if anything, there shouldn’t be any signifier that someone besides the writer sent it out, you know? like the envelope should look utterly normal. it should be like jobing.com where you have a stock of your own cover letters. and you just click on which one you want for a specific market.
damn it, they should be paying me for this shit… am i ever gonna post this?
im kinda assuming that the legwork of getting published was done by writing and fully editing and then researching the market…
i’d relate this to those cups of gatoraide or a really nice pair of running shoes that help get everything done than anything else.
im too lazy to return to the website, but i thought it was like, you find the markets, decide which ones to submit too, then you package everything and then they send it off for you….
if this is not the case, if it isn’t like duotrope, only where they also send out the work for the market of your choosing, then i just came upon a great idea that i must go copyright like right now.
because if anything, there shouldn’t be any signifier that someone besides the writer sent it out, you know? like the envelope should look utterly normal. it should be like jobing.com where you have a stock of your own cover letters. and you just click on which one you want for a specific market.
damn it, they should be paying me for this shit… am i ever gonna post this?
the referral reminds me of amway a little.
the referral reminds me of amway a little.
i started noticing these sorts of subs my last year at phoebe. yes, the envelops and stuf are gneeric and so on, but little thigns stood out. by the end of the year i could glance througha sub pile a pick out those submitte by sub agencies based on the kind of address sticker. the cover letter, though, is a giveaway: yes, these places offer many different ‘looks’ for the cover letter, which remind me of the design themes from old msworks, but the format of the typed words is unique: bolded titles and names, and so on, which ive nevers een on other cover letters. i cant remember evrything thoug.
it ddnt mke me delete the sub or toss it. we still read it fairly (at least two readers read it). but it made me feel sad for the writer. i think there’s something aobut these sub services, which claim to have filtered down everything into an easy one step deal, that is hurtful for the entire editing process? for me, submitting is the first action i take towards personal interaction with an editor or something, an interaction that will hopefully continue on through publication of the piece i sbmitted. i dont always do the ‘legwork’ (what a dumb word) to the full degree, you know: reading lots of back issues, subscribing, and so on, but i still go through some process to select where ill submit, even if the reason is as flimsy as _______. so why would i ask an agncy to take away that initial personal thing (however insignificant)? but this is what i get out of the submission process, so that informs how i think of these services.
…
also, interesting to me is this bit of information about the service that i read in an article on bnet:
http://industry.bnet.com/media/1000917/wordhustler-aims-to-build-digital-marketplace-for-book-publishing/
“Then, there is the other side of that digital marketplace, and that is where WordHustler aims to make its real money. They are in the process of launching a “market affiliates program” with tiered pricing for agencies and other middlemen that typically are inundated with print submissions. These affiliates will pay $9.99-$29.99 a month to funnel submissions through WordHustler, which can guarantee a standardization of formatting as well as the same suite of IT management tools described above.
Finally, this ambitious young company, only eight months old, yet already the custodian of eight million words submitted by hopeful writers, is preparing a “digital reading room” where publishers (for a fee) can peruse manuscripts and manage the process of getting in touch with the writer and her representative in a much more efficient manner than has ever before been possible.”
awesome!
i started noticing these sorts of subs my last year at phoebe. yes, the envelops and stuf are gneeric and so on, but little thigns stood out. by the end of the year i could glance througha sub pile a pick out those submitte by sub agencies based on the kind of address sticker. the cover letter, though, is a giveaway: yes, these places offer many different ‘looks’ for the cover letter, which remind me of the design themes from old msworks, but the format of the typed words is unique: bolded titles and names, and so on, which ive nevers een on other cover letters. i cant remember evrything thoug.
it ddnt mke me delete the sub or toss it. we still read it fairly (at least two readers read it). but it made me feel sad for the writer. i think there’s something aobut these sub services, which claim to have filtered down everything into an easy one step deal, that is hurtful for the entire editing process? for me, submitting is the first action i take towards personal interaction with an editor or something, an interaction that will hopefully continue on through publication of the piece i sbmitted. i dont always do the ‘legwork’ (what a dumb word) to the full degree, you know: reading lots of back issues, subscribing, and so on, but i still go through some process to select where ill submit, even if the reason is as flimsy as _______. so why would i ask an agncy to take away that initial personal thing (however insignificant)? but this is what i get out of the submission process, so that informs how i think of these services.
…
also, interesting to me is this bit of information about the service that i read in an article on bnet:
http://industry.bnet.com/media/1000917/wordhustler-aims-to-build-digital-marketplace-for-book-publishing/
“Then, there is the other side of that digital marketplace, and that is where WordHustler aims to make its real money. They are in the process of launching a “market affiliates program” with tiered pricing for agencies and other middlemen that typically are inundated with print submissions. These affiliates will pay $9.99-$29.99 a month to funnel submissions through WordHustler, which can guarantee a standardization of formatting as well as the same suite of IT management tools described above.
Finally, this ambitious young company, only eight months old, yet already the custodian of eight million words submitted by hopeful writers, is preparing a “digital reading room” where publishers (for a fee) can peruse manuscripts and manage the process of getting in touch with the writer and her representative in a much more efficient manner than has ever before been possible.”
awesome!
http://www.writersrelief.com/index.asp#overview
http://www.writersrelief.com/index.asp#overview
the journal i read for throws away these submissions sight unseen. you can tell by the cover letter.
the journal i read for throws away these submissions sight unseen. you can tell by the cover letter.
good point
good point
haha
haha
yeah.
yeah.
this reminds me of a similar place of business for screenplays. i am having a hard time remembering the name since i stopped giving a shit about screenplays a few years ago.
i think it was ink something or the other.
there were success cases there. scripts were picked read and picked up by various agencies. the caveat being only low budget horror flick scripts beign purchased. from a business point horror scripts are gold mines.
it costs 2 mil to make and get returns of 50 million after theater release, dvd sales etc.
this is precisely why you see the ass pounding of stupid horror flicks in theaters. the college kids eat this shit up, costs no money to make and $$$ on return.
i miss hollywood before the corporate system took over.
the days of movie moguls is gone. long live corporate profit sharing.
sigh.
this reminds me of a similar place of business for screenplays. i am having a hard time remembering the name since i stopped giving a shit about screenplays a few years ago.
i think it was ink something or the other.
there were success cases there. scripts were picked read and picked up by various agencies. the caveat being only low budget horror flick scripts beign purchased. from a business point horror scripts are gold mines.
it costs 2 mil to make and get returns of 50 million after theater release, dvd sales etc.
this is precisely why you see the ass pounding of stupid horror flicks in theaters. the college kids eat this shit up, costs no money to make and $$$ on return.
i miss hollywood before the corporate system took over.
the days of movie moguls is gone. long live corporate profit sharing.
sigh.
i got no big deal bra.
i got a big pomelo.
i got no big deal bra.
i got a big pomelo.
pomelos are a bitch to peel.
it’s like a fucking marriage.
pomelos are a bitch to peel.
it’s like a fucking marriage.
i wonder if any one knows what amway is other than us pr.
i wonder if any one knows what amway is other than us pr.
i posted the pomelo on my blog bra
i posted the pomelo on my blog bra
Ha ha. As an editor I can’t imagine paying this company money for access to it’s “reading room,” ie the “privilege” of reading even more subs than I already read. And I’m editing a small indie mag. Like I’m sure theNYer editors are just sitting around thinking “God, if there were only a way to read MORE submissions. There must be more, somewhere!”
Ha ha. As an editor I can’t imagine paying this company money for access to it’s “reading room,” ie the “privilege” of reading even more subs than I already read. And I’m editing a small indie mag. Like I’m sure theNYer editors are just sitting around thinking “God, if there were only a way to read MORE submissions. There must be more, somewhere!”
mike there is merit to what you are saying but i think a “reading room” would classify things so a publisher could find a certain genre maybe?
i don’t know.
what the fuck do i know.
it is cold as the devil’s heart in orange county today. what the fuck.
mike there is merit to what you are saying but i think a “reading room” would classify things so a publisher could find a certain genre maybe?
i don’t know.
what the fuck do i know.
it is cold as the devil’s heart in orange county today. what the fuck.
holy fucking shit jimmy that is one huge pomelo.
it makes your head look normal size.
holy fucking shit jimmy that is one huge pomelo.
it makes your head look normal size.
I don’t think they are called Amway anymore. I believe they changed their name to escape the scam stigma…
I don’t think they are called Amway anymore. I believe they changed their name to escape the scam stigma…
I got an email this morning from these guys: https://www.ecostamps.org.
I got an email this morning from these guys: https://www.ecostamps.org.
i like what you said ryan.
…amway
i like what you said ryan.
…amway
i think i am less skeptical of a notforprofit service like that.
i think the way to do something like this right is to have a small group of ‘clients’ with whom you can communicate often about the submissions and so on. sort of as a consultant?
of course, most of my friends do that, right? i just dont pay them.
i think the hard part would be to be someone just starting? or trying to figure it out without already having some support network…thats what scares me.
i am just thinking aloud.
i think i am less skeptical of a notforprofit service like that.
i think the way to do something like this right is to have a small group of ‘clients’ with whom you can communicate often about the submissions and so on. sort of as a consultant?
of course, most of my friends do that, right? i just dont pay them.
i think the hard part would be to be someone just starting? or trying to figure it out without already having some support network…thats what scares me.
i am just thinking aloud.
My name is John L. Singleton and I am one of the founders of WordHustler, the site this blog post is talking about. First, I’d like to say thank you to all of the commenters above for all the kind words about WordHustler.
That said, there seem to be some misconceptions about WordHustler in your article, which, judging from some of the comments, has created a bit of confusion about what exactly WordHustler is and what we do. What I’d like to do is open the floor for any questions you (and your readers) might have. I’d be happy to help clear the air and provide you with some answers to your questions.
WordHustler’s core mission is to ease and improve the submission process. We maintain one of the largest *free* databases of literary markets on the web and we make that service even better by enabling writers to submit to markets just as they normally would, only without a lot of standing in line at the post office. Our service is very affordable. For example, it’s only 99 cents to send a query—and that includes printing, shipping, tracking, and postage on the SASE and submission. And it’s also easy to use. And that’s why thousands of writers from all over the world are succeeding with WordHustler.
But you don’t have to take my word for it. See what our writers, publishers, agents, and other industry professionals have to say about WordHustler over on our blog:
http://wordhustlerink.wordhustler.com/wordhustler-customer-testimonials/
I’d be happy to answer any questions you have about our service. We know that with a new, innovative service like WordHustler it can almost seem “too good to be true.” And that’s precicely why we offer any writer who tries us a free submission. That way they can see for themselves what a difference WordHustler can make.
Thanks for your time and thanks for your interest in WordHustler.
My name is John L. Singleton and I am one of the founders of WordHustler, the site this blog post is talking about. First, I’d like to say thank you to all of the commenters above for all the kind words about WordHustler.
That said, there seem to be some misconceptions about WordHustler in your article, which, judging from some of the comments, has created a bit of confusion about what exactly WordHustler is and what we do. What I’d like to do is open the floor for any questions you (and your readers) might have. I’d be happy to help clear the air and provide you with some answers to your questions.
WordHustler’s core mission is to ease and improve the submission process. We maintain one of the largest *free* databases of literary markets on the web and we make that service even better by enabling writers to submit to markets just as they normally would, only without a lot of standing in line at the post office. Our service is very affordable. For example, it’s only 99 cents to send a query—and that includes printing, shipping, tracking, and postage on the SASE and submission. And it’s also easy to use. And that’s why thousands of writers from all over the world are succeeding with WordHustler.
But you don’t have to take my word for it. See what our writers, publishers, agents, and other industry professionals have to say about WordHustler over on our blog:
http://wordhustlerink.wordhustler.com/wordhustler-customer-testimonials/
I’d be happy to answer any questions you have about our service. We know that with a new, innovative service like WordHustler it can almost seem “too good to be true.” And that’s precicely why we offer any writer who tries us a free submission. That way they can see for themselves what a difference WordHustler can make.
Thanks for your time and thanks for your interest in WordHustler.
i would like to see justin taylor shine here. where is justin?!?!?!
i would like to see justin taylor shine here. where is justin?!?!?!
okay i won’t say much but i will pick apart your little word hustler appreciation page.
the testimonials are bullshit. there is no way to verify they are factual and not written by you. the tone of every testimonial seems similar to me. like maybe written by the same person?
i used to make “corporate videos” when I was 18. we would walk around conventions with our gear and do “candid” interviews with people about a product or association or whatever (the people paying us).
some one would give us an inteview then we would ask them to say certain things and redo the interview. “can you tell us more about how you liked the speed of our service?” shit like that. when the person never mentioned being happy with the speed of any service to begin with. the testimonials remind me of the same.
the “word hustler fans” stenches of 3 day old turds baking in the arizona desert sun.
not one established name says they actually use the service. you are giving me the fucking high hat here. a good day to you too asshole.
they were paid, they made remarks. blah blah blah.
weak minded people will not question this page. these are the same people who find comfort in sitcoms and am/pm snacks and in repetition.
you’ll make a killing.
okay i won’t say much but i will pick apart your little word hustler appreciation page.
the testimonials are bullshit. there is no way to verify they are factual and not written by you. the tone of every testimonial seems similar to me. like maybe written by the same person?
i used to make “corporate videos” when I was 18. we would walk around conventions with our gear and do “candid” interviews with people about a product or association or whatever (the people paying us).
some one would give us an inteview then we would ask them to say certain things and redo the interview. “can you tell us more about how you liked the speed of our service?” shit like that. when the person never mentioned being happy with the speed of any service to begin with. the testimonials remind me of the same.
the “word hustler fans” stenches of 3 day old turds baking in the arizona desert sun.
not one established name says they actually use the service. you are giving me the fucking high hat here. a good day to you too asshole.
they were paid, they made remarks. blah blah blah.
weak minded people will not question this page. these are the same people who find comfort in sitcoms and am/pm snacks and in repetition.
you’ll make a killing.
Hi Jereme,
I certainly appreciate your concern over the authenticity of our testimonials, but I can assure you, every testimonial on that page is either from an actual WordHustler client or a real publishing professional. While I obviously can’t just hand out lists of clients, I invite you check out some of the people mentioned who talk about WordHustler. These recommendations aren’t just coming from anybody: they’re coming from New York Times best selling authors, well-know publishers, editors, and agents. We don’t pay anyone for those endorsements. There’s simply organic endorsements from people who see our service as something that could be of tremendous benefit to writers.
That said, I am here to answer specific questions about WordHustler’s products and services. If you have any questions to that end, I’d be happy to answer them for you.
Hi Jereme,
I certainly appreciate your concern over the authenticity of our testimonials, but I can assure you, every testimonial on that page is either from an actual WordHustler client or a real publishing professional. While I obviously can’t just hand out lists of clients, I invite you check out some of the people mentioned who talk about WordHustler. These recommendations aren’t just coming from anybody: they’re coming from New York Times best selling authors, well-know publishers, editors, and agents. We don’t pay anyone for those endorsements. There’s simply organic endorsements from people who see our service as something that could be of tremendous benefit to writers.
That said, I am here to answer specific questions about WordHustler’s products and services. If you have any questions to that end, I’d be happy to answer them for you.
I have a question: can you give me a way to opt out of receiving invitations to join? I’ve received several already, and have zero intent of ever using your “service.”
I have a question: can you give me a way to opt out of receiving invitations to join? I’ve received several already, and have zero intent of ever using your “service.”
hi john.
two questions for you:
is this a forprofit enterprise? I had assumed so, since it seems like it is your main ‘job’ right now for both you and anne.
and
how are you doing as far as your own writing? have you made any progress on your novel? has anne? i saw in the bnet article that she had placed a story through wordhustler. im curiuos because it woudl be cool to hear about yoru writing, you know, since youre offering a service for writers?
i just signed up for the service. ill post a review here in a few weeks.
hi john.
two questions for you:
is this a forprofit enterprise? I had assumed so, since it seems like it is your main ‘job’ right now for both you and anne.
and
how are you doing as far as your own writing? have you made any progress on your novel? has anne? i saw in the bnet article that she had placed a story through wordhustler. im curiuos because it woudl be cool to hear about yoru writing, you know, since youre offering a service for writers?
i just signed up for the service. ill post a review here in a few weeks.
yeah i understand what you are saying.
but like i said before none of the established writers “endorsing” your service ever say they actually have used the service.
“if this service existed when….” does not state the person uses the service only that it would have been nice if it existed back when the writer was struggling to get stuff out. all of your established writer approvals are written in the same manner.
it is trickery. i am familiar with marketing. whatever. it is what it is. give it a name just don’t lie to me about it.
yeah i understand what you are saying.
but like i said before none of the established writers “endorsing” your service ever say they actually have used the service.
“if this service existed when….” does not state the person uses the service only that it would have been nice if it existed back when the writer was struggling to get stuff out. all of your established writer approvals are written in the same manner.
it is trickery. i am familiar with marketing. whatever. it is what it is. give it a name just don’t lie to me about it.
Hi Ryan,
Thanks for your questions. I’d be happy answer them.
First, WordHustler is an LLC, which, yes, means it is a “for profit” company. We see this as a “win” for writers, as we are an entity that has the capital resources to be totally dedicated to our writers.
Also, thanks for asking about our own writing. At the moment, I’m in the last drafts of a novel, which I’m going to be sending out (through WordHustler, of course) soon. It’s basically a novel based on a road trip I took a long time ago that changed my life forever. It’s been a long project, but I’m finally rounding the bases on it and I think it’s going to do really well. As you know, Anne has just had a short story of hers accepted for publication (which happened via submitting through WordHustler) and she’s working on a novella as well. I also believe she has a script that is getting near a deal, so that’s really great news as well.
I look forward to reading your review. Let me know if you have any more questions about WordHustler and I’ll do my best to answer them.
Hi Ryan,
Thanks for your questions. I’d be happy answer them.
First, WordHustler is an LLC, which, yes, means it is a “for profit” company. We see this as a “win” for writers, as we are an entity that has the capital resources to be totally dedicated to our writers.
Also, thanks for asking about our own writing. At the moment, I’m in the last drafts of a novel, which I’m going to be sending out (through WordHustler, of course) soon. It’s basically a novel based on a road trip I took a long time ago that changed my life forever. It’s been a long project, but I’m finally rounding the bases on it and I think it’s going to do really well. As you know, Anne has just had a short story of hers accepted for publication (which happened via submitting through WordHustler) and she’s working on a novella as well. I also believe she has a script that is getting near a deal, so that’s really great news as well.
I look forward to reading your review. Let me know if you have any more questions about WordHustler and I’ll do my best to answer them.
I got an invitation by email from a good writing friend, so I checked out the site. I signed up and got a free submission for doing so, so I sent a story to Black Warrior Review, a story I’d been wanting to send them for a long time but never had because of my reticence to go through the snail mail ordeal and the post office ordeal. With so many magazines going to online submissions I’ve found that I’ve stopped sending to those that still ask for postal subs, and some of those markets are ones I still covet.
I’m also sending out a 4 page, 1000 word story. To print and mail a 4 page story, WordHustler charges $.99, SASE included. The part I don’t like so much is that a 4 page story goes into a 6 x 9 envelope, so it’s folded in half. I wrote WH to suggest making a full sized envelope an option at an extra charge, but they aren’t ready to do that.
Up to 10 pages, it’s $3.99. Up to 20, $5.99. These go out in full sized envelopes and #10 SASEs.
I sent myself the 4 page story for $.99 to check it out. I requested it Thursday night online, it went out Friday, I got it today, Saturday.
The 6 x 9 manila clasp envelope came with a thermally printed postage/mailing label (like you get at the P.O.). At the bottom of the label in fine print are the words: Prepared with care by WordHustler.com – One Click to Destiny (I think they could use a better motto). Someone ripping open envelopes in a slush room wouldn’t see the fine print The return address is a P. O. box in Los Angeles, I’m assuming WordHustler’s P.O. box.
The cover letter and submission are completely generic, nothing weird or any kind of marketing propaganda. It’s exactly as if I’d printed them myself. The paper is very white, the print clean, the pages are loose and clipped with a high quality butterfly paper clip The #10 SASE is printed and addressed to me, a postage stamp in the corner. Other than the fold, it’s better than what I put out by myself. I address manila envelopes and SASEs in loopy longhand and plaster stamps on all akimbo. Sometimes I make mistakes and scratch shit out. My manila submission envelopes are hideous.
I’ll say again, I’m not crazy about the half-fold in a short submission, but any editor who discards a good story because it came folded can bite me. It”s the story, stupid, etc.
Regarding cover letters, you can file a generic one and then modify it for each market or story. You don’t have to address it, they do all that. They give links to the markets so you can quickly double check all the info (editors, guidelines).
Submissions are uploaded and converted to PDF documents. All formatting is maintained.
WordHustler is basically a printing and mailing service with a market data base for writers. It’s a service. It takes me half a day to manually do 10 snail mail submissions. I don’t use labels, I don’t do Mail Merge, I do it all by hand, modifying cover letters for each market, sticking on stamps, hand addressing the whole mess. With WordHustler, 10 subs might take an hour. And I can do it in bed with my PJs on watching I Love Lucy. So it’s a matter of money, if convenience is worth it to you. i used to buy heads of lettuce then wash out the grit, tear it, spin it, toss it, eat it. Now I buy it in bags already washed and torn, ready to be tossed. It costs more but it’s easy.
I got an invitation by email from a good writing friend, so I checked out the site. I signed up and got a free submission for doing so, so I sent a story to Black Warrior Review, a story I’d been wanting to send them for a long time but never had because of my reticence to go through the snail mail ordeal and the post office ordeal. With so many magazines going to online submissions I’ve found that I’ve stopped sending to those that still ask for postal subs, and some of those markets are ones I still covet.
I’m also sending out a 4 page, 1000 word story. To print and mail a 4 page story, WordHustler charges $.99, SASE included. The part I don’t like so much is that a 4 page story goes into a 6 x 9 envelope, so it’s folded in half. I wrote WH to suggest making a full sized envelope an option at an extra charge, but they aren’t ready to do that.
Up to 10 pages, it’s $3.99. Up to 20, $5.99. These go out in full sized envelopes and #10 SASEs.
I sent myself the 4 page story for $.99 to check it out. I requested it Thursday night online, it went out Friday, I got it today, Saturday.
The 6 x 9 manila clasp envelope came with a thermally printed postage/mailing label (like you get at the P.O.). At the bottom of the label in fine print are the words: Prepared with care by WordHustler.com – One Click to Destiny (I think they could use a better motto). Someone ripping open envelopes in a slush room wouldn’t see the fine print The return address is a P. O. box in Los Angeles, I’m assuming WordHustler’s P.O. box.
The cover letter and submission are completely generic, nothing weird or any kind of marketing propaganda. It’s exactly as if I’d printed them myself. The paper is very white, the print clean, the pages are loose and clipped with a high quality butterfly paper clip The #10 SASE is printed and addressed to me, a postage stamp in the corner. Other than the fold, it’s better than what I put out by myself. I address manila envelopes and SASEs in loopy longhand and plaster stamps on all akimbo. Sometimes I make mistakes and scratch shit out. My manila submission envelopes are hideous.
I’ll say again, I’m not crazy about the half-fold in a short submission, but any editor who discards a good story because it came folded can bite me. It”s the story, stupid, etc.
Regarding cover letters, you can file a generic one and then modify it for each market or story. You don’t have to address it, they do all that. They give links to the markets so you can quickly double check all the info (editors, guidelines).
Submissions are uploaded and converted to PDF documents. All formatting is maintained.
WordHustler is basically a printing and mailing service with a market data base for writers. It’s a service. It takes me half a day to manually do 10 snail mail submissions. I don’t use labels, I don’t do Mail Merge, I do it all by hand, modifying cover letters for each market, sticking on stamps, hand addressing the whole mess. With WordHustler, 10 subs might take an hour. And I can do it in bed with my PJs on watching I Love Lucy. So it’s a matter of money, if convenience is worth it to you. i used to buy heads of lettuce then wash out the grit, tear it, spin it, toss it, eat it. Now I buy it in bags already washed and torn, ready to be tossed. It costs more but it’s easy.
I think you have to tell your friends not to send them. I got mine from Avital (the only one). I haven’t sent any invites to anyone (I hate that shit).
I think you have to tell your friends not to send them. I got mine from Avital (the only one). I haven’t sent any invites to anyone (I hate that shit).
thanks for this detailed run-down.
and even if you’re a plant, which i doubt, it lets me know everything about the process.
and i don’t understand why some people believe because an organization is a non-profit, that it holds more validity. many a nonprofits are set up as nonprofits just for that fact, because of the beautiful ‘stigma’ carried with them. automatically they get a ‘pass’.
i’d much rather look at the organization itself, and not whether they are ‘for profit’ or non….
but what do i know.
thanks for this detailed run-down.
and even if you’re a plant, which i doubt, it lets me know everything about the process.
and i don’t understand why some people believe because an organization is a non-profit, that it holds more validity. many a nonprofits are set up as nonprofits just for that fact, because of the beautiful ‘stigma’ carried with them. automatically they get a ‘pass’.
i’d much rather look at the organization itself, and not whether they are ‘for profit’ or non….
but what do i know.
michael j talky talky truth. nonprofit doesn’t mean shit other than a tax shelter. they can be just as dirty as any one else.
question everything.
michael j talky talky truth. nonprofit doesn’t mean shit other than a tax shelter. they can be just as dirty as any one else.
question everything.
I’m not a plant (eye roll).
I think for stories (I write short stories) up to 10 pages, sending them out @ $3.99 a pop is something I might do. Stories over 10 pages (for $5.99) is a bit pricey. And mainly I submit to places that have online submission managers.
But there’s still some really good places that only take snail mail subs.
My crits about WordHustler are:
1. The market search is awkward. When I plug in “literary” and “fiction” tags, I get tons of sci-fi and fantasy places mixed in. I’d like a way to eliminate those markets since I don’t write sci-fi or fantasy.The scrolling is awkward, you have to go page by page. I’d rather a long list. So I search markets on Duotrope, then look specifically for those on WordHustler. I asked WordHustler to add Cream Citry Review and REAL: Regarding Arts & Letters because they weren’t there. You can manually type in unlisted markets though, but I don’t want to.
2. I think the motto is cheesy: One Click to Destiny. I think that works against WordHustler. Sharp cheddar is good on crackers and chili.
3. I wish they had to option to use a full-sized manila envelope for very short submissions (for a higher price).
4. On one page, the writer is greeted as “Smartypants”. ICK. I have a sense of humor (ask anyone) but don’t call me Smartypants.
But the end product is professional and easier than doing it myself. If I had a nifty home office set up I might not find it as appealing, but my printer is on the shitty side (I need a new one), my stamps keep going obsolete because of USPS jacking everything around, I fucking HATE the post office ordeal, I don’t do labels nor have I ever demystified Mail Merge on Word, so I have to type each cover letter’s address manually, then sweat that I haven’t addressed the wrong editor or magazine etc.
Sending work out to Threepenny, Mid American Review, New England Review, Black Warrior and Gulf Coast is like winning the Lotto. First, you have to buy a ticket.
I’m not a plant (eye roll).
I think for stories (I write short stories) up to 10 pages, sending them out @ $3.99 a pop is something I might do. Stories over 10 pages (for $5.99) is a bit pricey. And mainly I submit to places that have online submission managers.
But there’s still some really good places that only take snail mail subs.
My crits about WordHustler are:
1. The market search is awkward. When I plug in “literary” and “fiction” tags, I get tons of sci-fi and fantasy places mixed in. I’d like a way to eliminate those markets since I don’t write sci-fi or fantasy.The scrolling is awkward, you have to go page by page. I’d rather a long list. So I search markets on Duotrope, then look specifically for those on WordHustler. I asked WordHustler to add Cream Citry Review and REAL: Regarding Arts & Letters because they weren’t there. You can manually type in unlisted markets though, but I don’t want to.
2. I think the motto is cheesy: One Click to Destiny. I think that works against WordHustler. Sharp cheddar is good on crackers and chili.
3. I wish they had to option to use a full-sized manila envelope for very short submissions (for a higher price).
4. On one page, the writer is greeted as “Smartypants”. ICK. I have a sense of humor (ask anyone) but don’t call me Smartypants.
But the end product is professional and easier than doing it myself. If I had a nifty home office set up I might not find it as appealing, but my printer is on the shitty side (I need a new one), my stamps keep going obsolete because of USPS jacking everything around, I fucking HATE the post office ordeal, I don’t do labels nor have I ever demystified Mail Merge on Word, so I have to type each cover letter’s address manually, then sweat that I haven’t addressed the wrong editor or magazine etc.
Sending work out to Threepenny, Mid American Review, New England Review, Black Warrior and Gulf Coast is like winning the Lotto. First, you have to buy a ticket.
Agree, nonprofit means shit. It’s a tax shelter.
Agree, nonprofit means shit. It’s a tax shelter.
To Justin: I don’t think it’s a scam. It’s a printing and mailing service for writers. What’s scammy about that? They want to make money, so they’re offering a service, if you like it you pay for it. They’re not guaranteeing acceptances. They’re just sending out your submissions for you.
About the 4000 markets, they have markets for book presses, scripts, agents, contests, lit journals, magazines, all kinds of stuff. It’s not hard to believe they list 4000. YOU choose who you want to submit to, not them. It’s just like doing it yourself, except they do it for you. For a price. That’s all.
To Justin: I don’t think it’s a scam. It’s a printing and mailing service for writers. What’s scammy about that? They want to make money, so they’re offering a service, if you like it you pay for it. They’re not guaranteeing acceptances. They’re just sending out your submissions for you.
About the 4000 markets, they have markets for book presses, scripts, agents, contests, lit journals, magazines, all kinds of stuff. It’s not hard to believe they list 4000. YOU choose who you want to submit to, not them. It’s just like doing it yourself, except they do it for you. For a price. That’s all.
maybe i wont write a review. we’ll see.
alicia already seems to have done so in the comments. and i get the sense that this conversation is slowing dying? it might not be a timely thing. we’ll see
glad to hear you and anne are making thigns happen with yoru own work.
maybe i wont write a review. we’ll see.
alicia already seems to have done so in the comments. and i get the sense that this conversation is slowing dying? it might not be a timely thing. we’ll see
glad to hear you and anne are making thigns happen with yoru own work.
also thanks for your replies
also thanks for your replies
i always thought nonprofit status meant that an organization can be exempt from income taxes, because the organization is not meant to create earnings for its directors, nor does it pay out earnings for shareholders etc. i thought a non profit typicaly only earned enough to cover expenses, while providing some sort of service for the public. i didnt realize nonprofit status ‘means shit.’ im sure mike ingram, who reads for barrelhouse, which is operating as tax exempt right now, coudl talk a little bit about how nonprofit status doesnt ‘mean shit.’
sure they can be just as dirty, im not saying that nonprofit status automatically makes the organization clean, but im saying its one thing to look at and affects many things, maybe, in how the organization operates? im not saying i focus my entire judgment on that status; i spent a while going through the site and using the program last night and maybe ill write more about that later.
michael j says he doesnt understand why ‘some people’ think that just because an organization is nonprofit, its more valid, and that he just looks at the individual organization instead of nonprofit/forprofit status (yet he was too ‘lazy’ to actually check out wordhustler’s site?). this i dont understand. i mean, i understand his point, and i agree that we shouldnt just focus on one aspect. but i dont think im focusing on just one aspect: i asked one question about forprofit status because i was curious. im trying to think about the bigger situation. at least thats what ive tried to do here. if the context of this discussion is the history of services for writers, and im looking at a not fr profit versus a for profit, and im thinking of all the forprofit scams out there, im going to be more skeptical of a forprofit organization just because of who i am. sorry, but i just am. im going to question it more. im going to ask why someone thought this was a good idea (aside from the usual copy on the site)? who are the sites most common clients? why are the sites directors trying to make a profit from it? if this is a service, as john says, and it needs capital to serve other writers, why not file for tax exempt status and protect your capital that way? does there really exist a need for an enormous reading room to which all publishing houses, agestn, and so on can access to look for authors? what might that kind of structure do for/to lit publishing? etc.
i admit i dont know much about the reasons why one would do that or choose not to do that (file for nonprofit), so my knowledge is perhaps not enough there. but i think asking that question is worthwhile.
i always thought nonprofit status meant that an organization can be exempt from income taxes, because the organization is not meant to create earnings for its directors, nor does it pay out earnings for shareholders etc. i thought a non profit typicaly only earned enough to cover expenses, while providing some sort of service for the public. i didnt realize nonprofit status ‘means shit.’ im sure mike ingram, who reads for barrelhouse, which is operating as tax exempt right now, coudl talk a little bit about how nonprofit status doesnt ‘mean shit.’
sure they can be just as dirty, im not saying that nonprofit status automatically makes the organization clean, but im saying its one thing to look at and affects many things, maybe, in how the organization operates? im not saying i focus my entire judgment on that status; i spent a while going through the site and using the program last night and maybe ill write more about that later.
michael j says he doesnt understand why ‘some people’ think that just because an organization is nonprofit, its more valid, and that he just looks at the individual organization instead of nonprofit/forprofit status (yet he was too ‘lazy’ to actually check out wordhustler’s site?). this i dont understand. i mean, i understand his point, and i agree that we shouldnt just focus on one aspect. but i dont think im focusing on just one aspect: i asked one question about forprofit status because i was curious. im trying to think about the bigger situation. at least thats what ive tried to do here. if the context of this discussion is the history of services for writers, and im looking at a not fr profit versus a for profit, and im thinking of all the forprofit scams out there, im going to be more skeptical of a forprofit organization just because of who i am. sorry, but i just am. im going to question it more. im going to ask why someone thought this was a good idea (aside from the usual copy on the site)? who are the sites most common clients? why are the sites directors trying to make a profit from it? if this is a service, as john says, and it needs capital to serve other writers, why not file for tax exempt status and protect your capital that way? does there really exist a need for an enormous reading room to which all publishing houses, agestn, and so on can access to look for authors? what might that kind of structure do for/to lit publishing? etc.
i admit i dont know much about the reasons why one would do that or choose not to do that (file for nonprofit), so my knowledge is perhaps not enough there. but i think asking that question is worthwhile.
i think its this conception that submitting is like trying to win a lotto is what leads to a lot of wasteful submissions, and bobming submissions, and so on, which is what gives rise to these submission services, which promise to make the process easier.
i think thats a fundamental problem.
my opinion, anyhow.
i think its this conception that submitting is like trying to win a lotto is what leads to a lot of wasteful submissions, and bobming submissions, and so on, which is what gives rise to these submission services, which promise to make the process easier.
i think thats a fundamental problem.
my opinion, anyhow.
That’s my question too.
Otherwise… I’m very lazy and hate the post office and do not have any stamps and envelopes or printer and am not even fully certain I know what our current postage rate is for standard letters and am perfectly happy to pay someone else to prepare my postal submission.
That’s my question too.
Otherwise… I’m very lazy and hate the post office and do not have any stamps and envelopes or printer and am not even fully certain I know what our current postage rate is for standard letters and am perfectly happy to pay someone else to prepare my postal submission.
…they do still give you the opportunity to edit each cover letter as you see fit based upon your own market research. That part of the process is not depersonalized.
And you review pdfs of your cover letter before sending… there’s none of the funky formatting you mention.
According to Alicia, who had a sub sent to herself to see how they look, they do put their own return address on the outer envelope, and there’s tiny fine print somewhere (I forget which page) that says “prepared by wordhustler.” And the cover letter of course has no signature, altho you can upload a digitized version.
…they do still give you the opportunity to edit each cover letter as you see fit based upon your own market research. That part of the process is not depersonalized.
And you review pdfs of your cover letter before sending… there’s none of the funky formatting you mention.
According to Alicia, who had a sub sent to herself to see how they look, they do put their own return address on the outer envelope, and there’s tiny fine print somewhere (I forget which page) that says “prepared by wordhustler.” And the cover letter of course has no signature, altho you can upload a digitized version.
this is very true.
this is very true.
ryan, here’s my understanding: as a 501c3, there’s nothing preventing an organization from launching programs that generate income… this income becomes a “surplus” in the budget instead of “profit,” but can still be paid out in things like staff salaries. The program still needs to in some way provide an altruistic-type service to the community to qualify for the tax status, but I have definitely heard stories about non-profits that don’t function all that differently from for-profit entities… and there has been abuse… the 990 form (the tax form 501c3s of a certain size fill out) was recently updated… it’s much more complicated now, and I think preventing these kinds of abuses is one of the reasons. …but the revised form is also a huge burden to small and less sophisticated nonprofit organizations that are doing great work, so it’s a mixed bag.
ryan, here’s my understanding: as a 501c3, there’s nothing preventing an organization from launching programs that generate income… this income becomes a “surplus” in the budget instead of “profit,” but can still be paid out in things like staff salaries. The program still needs to in some way provide an altruistic-type service to the community to qualify for the tax status, but I have definitely heard stories about non-profits that don’t function all that differently from for-profit entities… and there has been abuse… the 990 form (the tax form 501c3s of a certain size fill out) was recently updated… it’s much more complicated now, and I think preventing these kinds of abuses is one of the reasons. …but the revised form is also a huge burden to small and less sophisticated nonprofit organizations that are doing great work, so it’s a mixed bag.
more than the motto, the name of the service bothers me…
more than the motto, the name of the service bothers me…
yes, i am aware that they allow you to edit cover letters.
my description of whacky formatting is from the writers relief sub agency, not wordhustler.
please understand: im speaking of, in my own process when i submit, the personal connections i make in my head and with editors after ive done work to enter into some sort of relationship with a market: i submit to A because a friend of mine suggested my work woould fit; i submit to B because they once published something i read that i liked; C because they hav responded previously to my work. this is what i mean by personal connection: the perhaps nowadays too oldfashioned and sentimental idea that publishing a piece of writing is to enter into somethign larger than onsefl, some sort of exchange, an exchange that is, in my opinion, a bit more complciated than ‘one click to destiny.’ and this isnt to say that authors using that service wont attempt to make those kinds of personal connections, so dont misread my words here as a condemnation of all authors on the wordhustler site, but the esrvice itself makes it very easy to bypass that exchange, and that frustrates me. i think theres somethign lost there.
also:
its called WORDHUSTLER for gods sake.
‘bottom line: you’re a writer. you should be spending your time writing.’
‘all you have to do is sit back and be your brilliant self’
‘one click to destiny.’
get hustlin’ folks!
i think im done on this thread.
(tim, thanks for clarifying 501stuff at the bottom; that was helpful).
yes, i am aware that they allow you to edit cover letters.
my description of whacky formatting is from the writers relief sub agency, not wordhustler.
please understand: im speaking of, in my own process when i submit, the personal connections i make in my head and with editors after ive done work to enter into some sort of relationship with a market: i submit to A because a friend of mine suggested my work woould fit; i submit to B because they once published something i read that i liked; C because they hav responded previously to my work. this is what i mean by personal connection: the perhaps nowadays too oldfashioned and sentimental idea that publishing a piece of writing is to enter into somethign larger than onsefl, some sort of exchange, an exchange that is, in my opinion, a bit more complciated than ‘one click to destiny.’ and this isnt to say that authors using that service wont attempt to make those kinds of personal connections, so dont misread my words here as a condemnation of all authors on the wordhustler site, but the esrvice itself makes it very easy to bypass that exchange, and that frustrates me. i think theres somethign lost there.
also:
its called WORDHUSTLER for gods sake.
‘bottom line: you’re a writer. you should be spending your time writing.’
‘all you have to do is sit back and be your brilliant self’
‘one click to destiny.’
get hustlin’ folks!
i think im done on this thread.
(tim, thanks for clarifying 501stuff at the bottom; that was helpful).
Hi Ryan,
I think those are some really great questions you have in your post. And the answers aren’t immediately obvious. So if you’ll permit it, let me chat a bit about that.
First, on the issue of non-profits getting a pass. I totally agree on this point. I’ve worked for a number of non-profits in a writing context and I have to say, I’ve seen some of the shadiest things go down at non-profits ever. And I’m not talking about small ones. I’m talking about ones that are household names. I won’t name names, but let’s just say that I was pretty much blown away by the kinds of things that went down. My chief problem with non-profits is that there is little to no accountability as to where all of the money goes. A lot of non-profits rely on donations and so on and as such there’s no board of investors to look at where (or to what pocket) the money is going to. And when you do something on a “goodwill” basis, that sort of thing really needs to be paramount. There’s just not enough “independent” auditing going on. And that’s when the monkey business starts. In terms of non-profits for writers: same thing. I’ve seen just as many shady writing non-profits as I have seen book doctors, predatory agencies and the like. You really have to look at the organization and go from there.
From your post: “If this is a service, as John says, and it needs capital to serve other writers, why not file for tax exempt status and protect your capital that way.”
Well, as for the issue of capital protection, being a non-profit doesn’t necessarily grant you any additional protection—at least not more than a well structured LLC. Not to bore you with the details, but companies with significant capital holdings general set up separate “holding” companies. One will “own” assets, one will handle the capital, and one might provide the actual service. But enough of that.
The real reason something like WordHustler needs to be a for-profit company is simple: developing software like ours costs a lot, and I mean a lot, of money. And in the end, our products and services (however much it takes to develop them) are the way in which we serve writers. At the end of the day, investors don’t want to invest in non-profit companies. Why? Because they can’t make any money on it. It’s a sad truth, but it is certainly a reality. At the end of the day, it’s all about making WordHustler a viable company that is going to be around for a long time to serve writers for years to come.
I also wanted to say a few words about the Digital Reading Room, if I may. In the comments, it seems as if the perception of the Reading Room is that it is a place where editors and agents come to look for work. However, that’s not what it will be at all. That sort of thing has been tried and tried and it has failed nearly every time. Why? Because, for better or for worse, the traditional methods via which editors place content *work*. They don’t want to troll through thousands of possibly irrelevant submissions all day. It simply doesn’t make sense.
The Digital Reading Room is basically a workflow management tool for publishers, editors, and agents. It allows for the total integration of print and electronic submissions and provides a robust platform with comprehensive tools for managing all aspects of the submission process. Though it’s not available for public consumption yet (it’s in limited beta) I’ll say that it provides some really amazing tools that are going to rock the publishing industry in 2010. We’re talking about things like ereader/kindle integration, digital review tools, and all sorts of goodies.
Perhaps the next question is: who do people need something like this? That’s a pretty easy answer. Try and remember back a few years when everyone had their own email servers, homebrewed webmail programs and things like that. I’m talking before Hotmail, Google Apps, and the like. It was a mess. Services were unreliable, all of them were different, and there was little to no interoperability between them. Flash forward to now: people are running their email, docs, and so on in the cloud, and more and more relying on hosted services that are “ready to go.”
A good question for this is “why?” Well, the reason is that most organizations realized that their core competency wasn’t in building robust, reliable software. Rather it was in the thing that they were doing. You see a lot of this thing going on with lit mags. So many of them have “online submission managers.” Now the writers is stuck with a myriad of passwords and logins and the literary magazines are distracted from their core mission: publishing great writing. We see this as very much the same situation as above. We want to free the hands of editors, agents, and publishers everywhere so they can get back to what they do best: getting great writing published.
I’d be happy to answer any more questions, should you have them. Also, sorry for going on so long about it all. I thought you had some good questions that deserved real answers.
Hi Ryan,
I think those are some really great questions you have in your post. And the answers aren’t immediately obvious. So if you’ll permit it, let me chat a bit about that.
First, on the issue of non-profits getting a pass. I totally agree on this point. I’ve worked for a number of non-profits in a writing context and I have to say, I’ve seen some of the shadiest things go down at non-profits ever. And I’m not talking about small ones. I’m talking about ones that are household names. I won’t name names, but let’s just say that I was pretty much blown away by the kinds of things that went down. My chief problem with non-profits is that there is little to no accountability as to where all of the money goes. A lot of non-profits rely on donations and so on and as such there’s no board of investors to look at where (or to what pocket) the money is going to. And when you do something on a “goodwill” basis, that sort of thing really needs to be paramount. There’s just not enough “independent” auditing going on. And that’s when the monkey business starts. In terms of non-profits for writers: same thing. I’ve seen just as many shady writing non-profits as I have seen book doctors, predatory agencies and the like. You really have to look at the organization and go from there.
From your post: “If this is a service, as John says, and it needs capital to serve other writers, why not file for tax exempt status and protect your capital that way.”
Well, as for the issue of capital protection, being a non-profit doesn’t necessarily grant you any additional protection—at least not more than a well structured LLC. Not to bore you with the details, but companies with significant capital holdings general set up separate “holding” companies. One will “own” assets, one will handle the capital, and one might provide the actual service. But enough of that.
The real reason something like WordHustler needs to be a for-profit company is simple: developing software like ours costs a lot, and I mean a lot, of money. And in the end, our products and services (however much it takes to develop them) are the way in which we serve writers. At the end of the day, investors don’t want to invest in non-profit companies. Why? Because they can’t make any money on it. It’s a sad truth, but it is certainly a reality. At the end of the day, it’s all about making WordHustler a viable company that is going to be around for a long time to serve writers for years to come.
I also wanted to say a few words about the Digital Reading Room, if I may. In the comments, it seems as if the perception of the Reading Room is that it is a place where editors and agents come to look for work. However, that’s not what it will be at all. That sort of thing has been tried and tried and it has failed nearly every time. Why? Because, for better or for worse, the traditional methods via which editors place content *work*. They don’t want to troll through thousands of possibly irrelevant submissions all day. It simply doesn’t make sense.
The Digital Reading Room is basically a workflow management tool for publishers, editors, and agents. It allows for the total integration of print and electronic submissions and provides a robust platform with comprehensive tools for managing all aspects of the submission process. Though it’s not available for public consumption yet (it’s in limited beta) I’ll say that it provides some really amazing tools that are going to rock the publishing industry in 2010. We’re talking about things like ereader/kindle integration, digital review tools, and all sorts of goodies.
Perhaps the next question is: who do people need something like this? That’s a pretty easy answer. Try and remember back a few years when everyone had their own email servers, homebrewed webmail programs and things like that. I’m talking before Hotmail, Google Apps, and the like. It was a mess. Services were unreliable, all of them were different, and there was little to no interoperability between them. Flash forward to now: people are running their email, docs, and so on in the cloud, and more and more relying on hosted services that are “ready to go.”
A good question for this is “why?” Well, the reason is that most organizations realized that their core competency wasn’t in building robust, reliable software. Rather it was in the thing that they were doing. You see a lot of this thing going on with lit mags. So many of them have “online submission managers.” Now the writers is stuck with a myriad of passwords and logins and the literary magazines are distracted from their core mission: publishing great writing. We see this as very much the same situation as above. We want to free the hands of editors, agents, and publishers everywhere so they can get back to what they do best: getting great writing published.
I’d be happy to answer any more questions, should you have them. Also, sorry for going on so long about it all. I thought you had some good questions that deserved real answers.
john
im more than satisfied by your reply here. i have to admit a large amount of aggressive ignorance on my part when it comes to financial costs associated with these sorts of things, so i often dont really know what im talking about.
that said, im still critical of some of the copy on the site as well as a few of the tools (ill email you). i wont be using wordhustler, as im pretty set in my ways and am happy with that.
thansk for patiently responding/reading this thread
john
im more than satisfied by your reply here. i have to admit a large amount of aggressive ignorance on my part when it comes to financial costs associated with these sorts of things, so i often dont really know what im talking about.
that said, im still critical of some of the copy on the site as well as a few of the tools (ill email you). i wont be using wordhustler, as im pretty set in my ways and am happy with that.
thansk for patiently responding/reading this thread
To Ryan: I don’t think you can really carpet bomb submissions with a service like this, unless you have ample disposable income. If anything, using a service like this makes you choose markets carefully. I don’t get all the animosity toward it (not from you, but the general animosity I’ve seen as well as the initial post). There’s this kind of general zeitgeist that writers are fragile creatures easily taken advantage of; that they need protection from Big Bad Wolves.
You’re already spending time and money when you submit postally. With this service you add to the cost by buying convenience. It’s up to the writer to weigh if its worth it. For me, occasionally, it probably will be. If the economy keeps tanking, maybe not, In my very brief experience with it, I got some work out there that I”d been meaning to do but never had. The ease of it facilitated my doing so, and with the short subs, it was very reasonably priced.
To Ryan: I don’t think you can really carpet bomb submissions with a service like this, unless you have ample disposable income. If anything, using a service like this makes you choose markets carefully. I don’t get all the animosity toward it (not from you, but the general animosity I’ve seen as well as the initial post). There’s this kind of general zeitgeist that writers are fragile creatures easily taken advantage of; that they need protection from Big Bad Wolves.
You’re already spending time and money when you submit postally. With this service you add to the cost by buying convenience. It’s up to the writer to weigh if its worth it. For me, occasionally, it probably will be. If the economy keeps tanking, maybe not, In my very brief experience with it, I got some work out there that I”d been meaning to do but never had. The ease of it facilitated my doing so, and with the short subs, it was very reasonably priced.
I don’t understand the purpose of this. How difficult is it to print out a submission & cover letter, paperclip it, throw it in an envelope, address the envelope, and leave it in your mailbox? This would make sense if a person sends out dozens of submissions a day, but who does that? And most mags accept e-subs anyway.
I don’t understand the purpose of this. How difficult is it to print out a submission & cover letter, paperclip it, throw it in an envelope, address the envelope, and leave it in your mailbox? This would make sense if a person sends out dozens of submissions a day, but who does that? And most mags accept e-subs anyway.
I’m not offended. I would totally turn Barrelhouse into a scam if I were smart enough to invent a scam. But I’m dumb, so we just publish writings instead. For now!
I’m not offended. I would totally turn Barrelhouse into a scam if I were smart enough to invent a scam. But I’m dumb, so we just publish writings instead. For now!
ryan,
re: nonprofits. do you also think Scientology is a real church?
ryan,
re: nonprofits. do you also think Scientology is a real church?
no no no!
point taken, jereme dean, point taken.
i am showing here my aggressive ignoance/naivete, i think.
i concede on this thread. it has been educational.
no no no!
point taken, jereme dean, point taken.
i am showing here my aggressive ignoance/naivete, i think.
i concede on this thread. it has been educational.