February 23rd, 2009 / 5:06 pm
Web Hype
Blake Butler
Web Hype
Narrative Magazine (‘the gold standard of online publications’) wants $20 to read your short-short
Reporting live from the Narrative Magazine offices, my man Russell Jones, AKA ‘The Only Black God’ AKA Osiris AKA Big Baby Jesus:
WalMart’s down the street, son.
But I mean really…
Tags: narrative magazine, russell jones
Genius. I’m going to start charging 25 for shorts, 40 for short-shorts, and 100 for poems because they take the longest to not read.
Genius. I’m going to start charging 25 for shorts, 40 for short-shorts, and 100 for poems because they take the longest to not read.
They charge reading fees so that they can make the magazine free to readers.
They charge reading fees so that they can make the magazine free to readers.
That’s a lot for a short short. I’m ok with the fee for a 7000 word story. What I like Blake, is your reporting. I have that Shawn Colvin album. I listen to girly shit sometimes, Aimee Mann, Joni Mitchell, Patti Griffin. And then, sometimes, I listen to Metal. In fact, in the past few years i’ve seen Eagles of Death Metal twice, Priestess, Witchcraft, Wolfmother, The Datsuns…I love metal. And girl music. not so much 20 fees for a shor short thingy.
just curious – what sorts of costs are they dealing with that would make a fee necessary to keep the mag free?
just curious – what sorts of costs are they dealing with that would make a fee necessary to keep the mag free?
the first EoDM album was the awesome. josh homme is a genius. and Wolfmother. that makes me want to queue that up on the ol’ ipod… but probably not good work music…
It is a lot, but the way I figure it, I’m always paying contest entry fees so fuck it. Glimmer Train is just about as expensive, isn’t it? Oh, and fuck Glimmer Train.
the first EoDM album was the awesome. josh homme is a genius. and Wolfmother. that makes me want to queue that up on the ol’ ipod… but probably not good work music…
It is a lot, but the way I figure it, I’m always paying contest entry fees so fuck it. Glimmer Train is just about as expensive, isn’t it? Oh, and fuck Glimmer Train.
if that were the case they could receive 2-3 subs and cover costs for the whole year…
if that were the case they could receive 2-3 subs and cover costs for the whole year…
ha! I haven’t submitted to narrative in at least a year. glimmer train i gave up on years ago, like three.
your piece in narrative was beautiful, Brandon. haunting. good good stuff.
peace love death metal. awesomeness.
i like death by sexy alot. A LOT.
the new one has not grown on me yet.
wolfmother rocked my world live. Damn, that was a fun night.
Those are some of the worst submissions guidelines I’ve ever read. They really try to reinforce that “You may read the magazine for free” and “We do not charge readers for the magazine.” Both sentences in the same paragraph! High quality writing! I get it! I get it!
Those are some of the worst submissions guidelines I’ve ever read. They really try to reinforce that “You may read the magazine for free” and “We do not charge readers for the magazine.” Both sentences in the same paragraph! High quality writing! I get it! I get it!
I don’t think that’s true based on how much they are paying writers. One acceptance costs them the amount of 20 submitted entry fees. Multiple the amount accepted per issue by ten? etc…
I don’t know why I’m in such an argumentative mood lately. Sorry.
I don’t think that’s true based on how much they are paying writers. One acceptance costs them the amount of 20 submitted entry fees. Multiple the amount accepted per issue by ten? etc…
I don’t know why I’m in such an argumentative mood lately. Sorry.
oh i forgot they are very proud of how much they pay. its still insane. its still sad.
oh i forgot they are very proud of how much they pay. its still insane. its still sad.
argumentative is good
argumentative is good
another of odb’s pseudonyms is “the cunt breath ass hole eater”
another of odb’s pseudonyms is “the cunt breath ass hole eater”
the thing about narrative is that it’s not a bottom’s up approach to online publishing the way most online publishing is. It began with a business model comparable to new yorker or harpers, or esquire really cause that’s where he’s from right? So they say, what’s different about being online vs. being at esquire like where we were. Well, it’s going to be free, so we will have to find a way to balance that out, let’s charge higher reading fees then. Everything else runs the same way, so we can continue to generate enough money that we can live in new york and schmooze with the literati the way we’ve always done. They are the only ones approaching it from a top down method so everyone else who’s used to online publishing being this way looks at them and says what you’re doing is strange and different and I’m scared of it. When really, what they are doing is the way it’s always been done.
the thing about narrative is that it’s not a bottom’s up approach to online publishing the way most online publishing is. It began with a business model comparable to new yorker or harpers, or esquire really cause that’s where he’s from right? So they say, what’s different about being online vs. being at esquire like where we were. Well, it’s going to be free, so we will have to find a way to balance that out, let’s charge higher reading fees then. Everything else runs the same way, so we can continue to generate enough money that we can live in new york and schmooze with the literati the way we’ve always done. They are the only ones approaching it from a top down method so everyone else who’s used to online publishing being this way looks at them and says what you’re doing is strange and different and I’m scared of it. When really, what they are doing is the way it’s always been done.
And here I am reading short-shorts for free like a sucker!
And here I am reading short-shorts for free like a sucker!
Although I will say that paying writers is a nice thing
Although I will say that paying writers is a nice thing
i’ve never heard of a magazine, print or otherwise, that charged their submitters for reading, unless it was a scam. not even a dollar. this is $20. $20 is a lot of money to read a piece of writing.none of these magazines you mention ask the submitters to pay them to consider the idea. especially when THE MAJORITY OF THE SHIT THEY PUBLISH IS LIKELY SOLICITED. i mean, did they get that $500 payment to Emily Dickinson for the stuff they published from her?
really, my guess is that they use this model so they convince ‘big names’ to publish with them by paying them with the money they get from people with little to no chance to be in the magazine.
“They are the only ones approaching it from a top down method so everyone else who’s used to online publishing being this way looks at them and says what you’re doing is strange and different and I’m scared of it.” — I’m sorry, that’s just stupid.
i’ve never heard of a magazine, print or otherwise, that charged their submitters for reading, unless it was a scam. not even a dollar. this is $20. $20 is a lot of money to read a piece of writing.none of these magazines you mention ask the submitters to pay them to consider the idea. especially when THE MAJORITY OF THE SHIT THEY PUBLISH IS LIKELY SOLICITED. i mean, did they get that $500 payment to Emily Dickinson for the stuff they published from her?
really, my guess is that they use this model so they convince ‘big names’ to publish with them by paying them with the money they get from people with little to no chance to be in the magazine.
“They are the only ones approaching it from a top down method so everyone else who’s used to online publishing being this way looks at them and says what you’re doing is strange and different and I’m scared of it.” — I’m sorry, that’s just stupid.
uh oh
gigantic will now be charging $21 dollars
uh oh
gigantic will now be charging $21 dollars
yeah, the new one hasn’t really done it for me either. have you seen the dvd they put out?
yeah, the new one hasn’t really done it for me either. have you seen the dvd they put out?
Thanks, PR. That story was actually workshopped back in 1993 and was much longer.
Thanks, PR. That story was actually workshopped back in 1993 and was much longer.
Right–Narrative did pay $150 for that little story, which was nice.
Right–Narrative did pay $150 for that little story, which was nice.
Ryan B- yes, I have the dvd. I watch it. I love it. They are so high. The whole “he gets more tail than pin the tail on the donkey”. At their first concert Jesse came out and…kissed me. I freaked out. I lost my shorts. I made him kiss me again. Then, at the end of the show, he invited all the ladies up and my husband pushed me up on stage and I danced my ass off and rubbed my ass against the base players ass. It was fun. I love rock.
THe last time I saw them (in october?), the crowd was really aggressive and I did not have such a good time, but it was still good. Jesse was wearing this
skin tight purple, V-Neck tie-dye t-shirt with a heart on it. His pants were so tight he could barely move. I worship him.
I knew we liked each other for a reason, Ryan. You like EODM!!!!!!!
I guess here is the question: is it right to charge through the teeth to would be contributors for a chance at a spot to become published in a magazine that seems to have clearly solicited more than 50% of its work?
Actually ‘right’ isn’t the right word, because in the end it is the submitter’s choice to pay the fee, but there just seems something doublefaced and weird about the whole process if you ask me. It leaves a bad taste, and is something usually I would just laugh at, though when it is passed around under the moniker ‘the gold standard of online publications,’ it seems even more out of whack.
i would have liked to read your piece, brandon, but the whole ‘login to read’ that even further propels the offsetting feeling for me has stopped me from doing so.
I guess here is the question: is it right to charge through the teeth to would be contributors for a chance at a spot to become published in a magazine that seems to have clearly solicited more than 50% of its work?
Actually ‘right’ isn’t the right word, because in the end it is the submitter’s choice to pay the fee, but there just seems something doublefaced and weird about the whole process if you ask me. It leaves a bad taste, and is something usually I would just laugh at, though when it is passed around under the moniker ‘the gold standard of online publications,’ it seems even more out of whack.
i would have liked to read your piece, brandon, but the whole ‘login to read’ that even further propels the offsetting feeling for me has stopped me from doing so.
The thing about payment- which I like too, don’t get me wrong (super proud of one story I’ve been paid 500 for three times, cause it was anthologized twice) – is that even though it is nice, no one is ever going to even remotely make a living off of publising short stories. Those days are over. So the money is nice, but it is almost like, a lollipop. Like, here! Nice, right? I mean if I published two stories a month, 12 months a year, and was paid 1000 each for those stories, I still would need a job, you know? So, it’s nice, but it’s like a bigger pat on the back than just getting published.
yes! and i thought we liked each other for our butts. i’m a massive audiophile and i think pretty much anything josh homme touches is gold. i’m really anxious to see how his production on the next arctic monkey’s album turned out. i’ve missed out on several opportunities to see EoDM and QOTSA, but one day it’ll happen.
now i want to talk music with you for hours.
yes! and i thought we liked each other for our butts. i’m a massive audiophile and i think pretty much anything josh homme touches is gold. i’m really anxious to see how his production on the next arctic monkey’s album turned out. i’ve missed out on several opportunities to see EoDM and QOTSA, but one day it’ll happen.
now i want to talk music with you for hours.
you make a good point Blake in that first graph. very good.
did they cut it? curious. I’d love to see the longer version.
i love josh. i posted his pic here on htmlgiant in the benjamin percy wilf piece.
didn’t get into that first artic monkeys record, but knowing josh is doing the next one…i’m all over that.
lullabies and rated r and songs for the deaf-my fave three-
do you know priestess? from canada? if you like eagles and QOTSA, you might dig them. I reeeeeeally dig them. That show blew my ears off.
exactly. openness of submission seems way more important, and valuable, than paying a lot to publishees. add to that the tangle of the nature of origin of the majority of the work they end up publishing, and it seems just downright exploitative.
exactly. openness of submission seems way more important, and valuable, than paying a lot to publishees. add to that the tangle of the nature of origin of the majority of the work they end up publishing, and it seems just downright exploitative.
In principle, I’m not against asking for payment from submitters(although 20 for a short short is a bit much), or making money from running a mag. But your main point is- they mostly take money from people like me, and mostly publish ann beattie, richard bausch (and so on, and I like both those writers) and so it does rub me wrong. Which is why I no longer submit to them.
Excellent post, BB. I guess I don’t regret placing a story there, as I’m always trying to make myself as diversified as I can. Still, I’m happier to be in NC2!
Excellent post, BB. I guess I don’t regret placing a story there, as I’m always trying to make myself as diversified as I can. Still, I’m happier to be in NC2!
You should be proud to be in there. I’m proud of you,and I don’t even know you.
The Maud Newton “love story’ they published was great and brutal, too. They publish some good stuff. But I do think BB has a good point about their submission policies.
i remember when you posted that pic, i almost said something about it, but for some reason or another didn’t.
you might like the second arctic monkeys album more than the first… a bit more aggressive.
“The Lost Art of Keeping a Secret” off Rated R is one of my favorite songs of all time. i used to listen to that song before recording vocals with my old band, for something to strive for.
i have not heard priestess… judas’ daughter? just kidding, i will check them out!
i remember when you posted that pic, i almost said something about it, but for some reason or another didn’t.
you might like the second arctic monkeys album more than the first… a bit more aggressive.
“The Lost Art of Keeping a Secret” off Rated R is one of my favorite songs of all time. i used to listen to that song before recording vocals with my old band, for something to strive for.
i have not heard priestess… judas’ daughter? just kidding, i will check them out!
I’m being a little insulting with that quote, sorry. But I still feel the logic there is sound. You’ve never heard of a magazine, print or otherwise, that charges their submitter this much because this is a new thing. It’s obviously topdown. They began the magazine already amidst names they had access to. They began at a position of advantage to make money and they are taking advantage of it.
I agree with all the sentiment going on here, that it’s still dumb, they can’t pay enough to sustain a writer, etc. And there is this, I’ll say, side-effect of being weird that writers are monetarily supporting a system that has little to no chance of letting them into it. I think these problems with how they are going about it. But if we are talking about why they are set up the way they are set up[, what is their motivation, I think you have to compare it to a top tier magazine attempting to become an online-only entity and not a non-entity becomeing an online magazine.
I’m being a little insulting with that quote, sorry. But I still feel the logic there is sound. You’ve never heard of a magazine, print or otherwise, that charges their submitter this much because this is a new thing. It’s obviously topdown. They began the magazine already amidst names they had access to. They began at a position of advantage to make money and they are taking advantage of it.
I agree with all the sentiment going on here, that it’s still dumb, they can’t pay enough to sustain a writer, etc. And there is this, I’ll say, side-effect of being weird that writers are monetarily supporting a system that has little to no chance of letting them into it. I think these problems with how they are going about it. But if we are talking about why they are set up the way they are set up[, what is their motivation, I think you have to compare it to a top tier magazine attempting to become an online-only entity and not a non-entity becomeing an online magazine.
narrative can fuck off for that entry fee. still, im glad you got the cash brandon, but still, fuck off narrative
narrative can fuck off for that entry fee. still, im glad you got the cash brandon, but still, fuck off narrative
20 seems like a lot for short story contest, much less a short-short general submission.
20 seems like a lot for short story contest, much less a short-short general submission.
Actually, I think I lost that money at the track.
Actually, I think I lost that money at the track.
They cut very little. I actually cut a lot more.
They cut very little. I actually cut a lot more.
i’d still like to see the longer version only if you felt like sharing it. no biggie.
maybe HTMLGiant should hold its own writing contest. it will be free to enter, and open to all. and then the winner will WIN exactly $20 dollars. and that winner will then go on to enter the Narrative contest using those earnings.
I don’t know how HTMLGiant will come up with the $20 prize though. that is where my idea falls apart.
maybe HTMLGiant should hold its own writing contest. it will be free to enter, and open to all. and then the winner will WIN exactly $20 dollars. and that winner will then go on to enter the Narrative contest using those earnings.
I don’t know how HTMLGiant will come up with the $20 prize though. that is where my idea falls apart.
we can ask famous authors to donate their money
we can ask famous authors to donate their money
First rule of dignity:
1) Never pay to have your work published.
More important, never pay to have your work “considered” by a “reputable” publication, unless it’s a small press and they might publish your entire collection/novel with what small funds the reading fees generate.
Reading fees for a single story? This, friends, is insane.
Better to spend your 20 bucks supporting a realistic press that makes no money at all.
Narrative, nice try, and in the future, gag on the virtual revulsion at your tactics.
“To labor and not to seek reward”–Ignatius
Narrative, who the cornshock do you think you are?
Hey, all you solicited authors, tell them no.
Tell them no. Tell them “I will not ruin my name on the backs young authors.”
And, hey, we’re watching.
Narrative Magazine, what has become of you? You hacksaw heartbreak waste.
Friends, Spend the twenty on a new book, or an old book, or a book that doesn’t exist yet.
Have some dignity.
Narrative Magazine will right itself once it realizes its fundamental error.
Magazines pay (or don’t pay) contributors for their work. One thing they aren’t, and should never be allowed to get away with, is charging reading fees.
That’s vanity press signature all over what used to be worthwhile.
Narrative Magazine? Apparently, they ain’t nothing special.
First rule of dignity:
1) Never pay to have your work published.
More important, never pay to have your work “considered” by a “reputable” publication, unless it’s a small press and they might publish your entire collection/novel with what small funds the reading fees generate.
Reading fees for a single story? This, friends, is insane.
Better to spend your 20 bucks supporting a realistic press that makes no money at all.
Narrative, nice try, and in the future, gag on the virtual revulsion at your tactics.
“To labor and not to seek reward”–Ignatius
Narrative, who the cornshock do you think you are?
Hey, all you solicited authors, tell them no.
Tell them no. Tell them “I will not ruin my name on the backs young authors.”
And, hey, we’re watching.
Narrative Magazine, what has become of you? You hacksaw heartbreak waste.
Friends, Spend the twenty on a new book, or an old book, or a book that doesn’t exist yet.
Have some dignity.
Narrative Magazine will right itself once it realizes its fundamental error.
Magazines pay (or don’t pay) contributors for their work. One thing they aren’t, and should never be allowed to get away with, is charging reading fees.
That’s vanity press signature all over what used to be worthwhile.
Narrative Magazine? Apparently, they ain’t nothing special.
You know, as this discussion furthered, and Blake’s point grew in my brain, I am more taken with the wrongness. What I like about Krump’s point, is that the big authors who publish there are culpable too. I find that interesting and worth chewing on. And maybe blake will post about that? Very nice, David.
$20 for you ryan
i paid for gary shteyngart’s dinner last night
$20 for you ryan
i paid for gary shteyngart’s dinner last night
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How To Make money with affiliate programs Today. Affiliate marketing is the easier and probably the most effective method to make money from the internet. It is basically, a kind of selling technique where potential buyers from your website are directed to the websites of sellers. For every click, the website owner gets a small commission.
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